"that our decadent, open society must be destroyed."

Rightwhiners are the same everywhere, eh?

That sentiment could be used in regard to our own TaliBaptists.

But is is as wrong-headed as every other notion floating around in that poor excuse for a brain of yours.

The people of Iraq love everything American. The government of Iraq, reminiscent of the current admin in this country, does everything it can to villainize the opposition in order to fear-monger their public into supporting them.

Hey how much do they pay You for each post?? Is it like 75 cents a post?? Oh and how much do You get when You reach a certain amount of bandwidth?? Is it something like AMway where You get Points on how much You spend?? Instead of Spending here You are posting?? So how much do You get Lokisfur?? I would really love to know. Oh and do You get somethjing like a new car if You make it to 1 Million Posts??

Larry

They are fighting us in Iraq and Afghanistan because they hate our freedom here.

No, They are fighting us in Iraq and Afghanistan because they believe they have no choice. Militant Islam is in a holy war against the US and the west in general, not because of Bush, but because we are the great Satan" that is standing in the way of the great Muslim civilization that they envision for the world.

That militant worldview was in place long before Bush and will be long after he's gone. That Bush has been the first President to aggresively challenge that world view and the goals of the extremists is the best thing he has done as President.

but he just opened up the can of worms, he didn't create the can of worms.

"It is our free and open culture, freedom of religion, non-sectarian governemnt, and our capitalistic society not Bush which is the main engine drivng recrutiment of Islamic extremists"

That's got be one of most ridiculous pieces of propaganda Spud has ever heard.

It is the outright interference in their own countries that is the primary cause of the rise of extremists.

Also, the fact that the US had funded extremists in the past (as long as they were "The enemy of my enemy" kinda thing.) and continue to fund them now, certainly aint much of a help.

America supports disctators and terrorists and bombs and kidnaps and tortures civilians.

Commits coup d'etats.

And we're supposed to believe the folk in the ME just hate America cos it's so gosh darned free?

Pathetic!

Really sad thing, of course, is that there are still peole too afraid to open their eyes and see the world for wot it is.

Wot is has become.

Those people still buy into this crap.

To put this more simply.

There is a war within Islam between the extremists and the moderates.

All Bush has done is to empower the extremists.

And then declared that he's doing the opposite.

Be Well.

PS: Hey Now. Hey Now. Spud has just entered the monkey House that calls itself the Retort, in the usual way,
stage left.

The worms crawl in
The worms crawl out

The worms play pinochle
On your snout

but he just opened up the can of worms, he didn't create the can of worms.

That can of worms started with the formation of Israel and constant US meddling in the ME that has expanded to military occupation.

Can you imagine the hostility here if say China was occupying Canada and Mexico?

That Bush has been the first President to aggresively challenge that world view and the goals of the extremists is the best thing he has done as President.

Do the math. 19 extremists attacked this county in one day, verses 190,000+ extremists attacking their countries for five years.

he didn't create the can of worms.

No. But now he has a barrel full of snakes to deal with.

"One could well argue that the democrats and liberals defeatist policy of withdrawl and surrender..."


One could also argue the sky is green.

If your theory is true, the following will be easy:

Name one specific aspect of the prosecution of the Iraq war which the neocon architects have wanted and "the left" has prevented.

"Hey how much do they pay You for each post??"

Larry...I't's gotta be by the test run. Did you ever notice every few days there's a new phrase repeated ad nauseum?

"taking responsibility for the war"

"Barak Hussein Obama"

"apostate"

I think the shills are just testing slogans. Maybe they're trying to sell t-shirts, who knows?

Yeah especially now since Rudy trademarked his name that certain TShirt is forbidden unless He gets permission from the Rudy campaign. imagine THAT one hahahahahahah

Larry

"pinochle"

Thanx Data!

Spud never heard THAT version!

Never laugh when a hearse goes by,
Or you may be the next to die.
They wrap you in a bloody sheet
And bury you down about six feet.
All goes well for about a week,
But then your coffin begins to leak.
The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out,
The worms play pinochle on your snout.
They eat your eyes, they eat your nose,
They eat the jelly between your toes.
Your nose, it turns a mossy green,
And pus comes out like whipping cream.
You spread it on a slice of bread
And eat it while you're lying there dead"

The worms crawl in and
the worms crawl out.
The ones that crawl in are lean and thin
The ones that crawl out are fat and stout
Your eyes fall in and your teeth fall out
Your brains come tumbling down your snout

Be merry my friends
Be merry

Ha! Dan shines 4th!

"I think the shills are just testing slogans. Maybe they're trying to sell t-shirts, who knows?"

Spud thinks they come to blog-world wif their latest carefully crafted talking points looking for traction.

Spud sees them mostly just "spinning their wheels".

No traction.

Kinda funny too.

Don't stand too close.

Don't want to get all muddy or nothing, ya know.

;-)

Be Well.

If that's all there is, my friend,
then let's keep dancing.

so bowa is afraid of how the muslim radicals will see our ex-muslim president....awwww
and im sure they would hate a woman president too since they hate women.
i guess he thinks we must apease the nutty muslims and vote for the guy they aprove of (i never knew you had no spine bowa)

how about we elect somebody who will do the will of the american people ( not just 29% of them)

next week on " as bowas world turns".... massive muslim armies will fly there airforce to america to bomb us into sharia law unless we vote for rudy mcromney...oh , the horror

The worms crawl in
The worms crawl out

The worms play pinochle
On your snout

LOL You beat me to it, Data. I had just read Bowa's comment and was going to post that.

Gal
Sorry about the wake.
Hope the booze is good.

so bowa is afraid of how the muslim radicals will see our ex-muslim president....awwww

503, Not at all. In fact, I thought I've been very clear as to why I think that having an "apostate" President could make those democrats and liberals who believe that the threat presented by militant Islam is either minimal or only as a result of President Bush's policies, realize that they are wrong.

Really sad thing, of course, is that there are still peole too afraid to open their eyes and see the world for wot it is. Wot is has become.

Sorry Spud. Unlike you, I did not open my eyes and decide to "Blame America First" and justify every attack comitted by Muslim terrorists against our forces, our allies, and innocent civilians. "What America has become" is the becaon of hope to all those people living in tyranny and under the threat of terrorism. You of course, don't hear the voices of the 12 million Iraqis who voted for democracy. You only hear the voices of those that applaude3d 9/11, and those that seek to defeat America, to destroy the Iraqi and Afghani governments.

You seem to believe that America operates in some vacuum where everyone else's strategic interests are allowed but America's never are. As if America has no right to exist in this world. As if America has no right to determine what it;'s interests are, it's goals, and what it stands for.

If I had your view of what America stands for, I think that I would probably move. The nation you have described is one with only evil intent and no redeeming qualities whatsoever. That you could believe the attacks by Muslim terrorists whose stated missions and beliefs are the antithesis of that which is spelled out in the declaration and Constituion tells me that you must think that the USA has become worse then these enemies, that are goals in Iraq, Afghanistan and in trying to defeat Islamo-fascism is not good at all but evil.

Spud, it is not I who need to open my eyes it is you. Open your eyes and look at the wonderful nation America is, and what it really represents to so many who yearn for freedom and who would come here if they could, who would welcome democracy, and liberty, if they could.

For those who can only see black or white, they must needs be see America only in some naive, colloquial manner as a Shining City Upon a Hill, while seeing any non-conformity to their small-mindedness as "evil".

To those who have opened their eyes to the many shades of grey that exist in reality, America is, as are most nations, a collection of mostly well-intentioned, good people, mired in circumstance, poor governmental organization, and in the current case, weak, incompetent leadership enabled and apologized for by their kindred spirits.

Spud sed...

"Really sad thing, of course, is that there are still people too afraid to open their eyes and see the world for wot it is. Wot is has become."

Bowa responds...

"Sorry Spud. Unlike you, I did not open my eyes and decide to "Blame America First" and justify every attack comitted by Muslim terrorists against our forces, our allies, and innocent civilians."

Spud now responds to that...

Sorry, AWOB, unlike Spud, you decided to close yer eyes and join the "Shame America First" crowd and justify every act of torture, murder, unlawful imprisionment or erosion of wot most people condsider their God given rights as citizen of the United States of America.

Truth be told Spud is very sorry you haff chosen that path.

Spud doesn't justify or condone any act of violence except in self defense.

You only see and condem half of the violence and then proceed to tell Spud to open his eyes.

Seriously Bowa, yer telling SPUD to open HIS EYES?!

You are mad.

""What America has become" is the becaon of hope to all those people living in tyranny and under the threat of terrorism"

Wot America has become is a government run by corporate will, protected by an obliging media, and imposing that will in a variety of immoral ways around the globe so as to lead directly to where we are now in this moment in time.

"You of course, don't hear the voices of the 12 million Iraqis who voted for democracy. You only hear the voices of those that applauded 9/11, and those that seek to defeat America, to destroy the Iraqi and Afghani governments"

Spud'll agree that the Iraqi side of the picture is woefully under-represented in the American media.

Wot "you don't hear", Bowa, in those 12 million voices, is "Get the Fuck Out of Our Country You Evil Bastards".

They're all saying it.

Yer just not hearing it.

Before you try and comment on the mote in Spuds eye perhaps it would be best is you removed the BEAM in yer own?

Get yer hearing checked too.

Maybe a brainscan?

Just to make sure yers didn't fall out or nothing.

Spud is worry about Bowa's health, ya know. ;^)

Be Well.

To those who have opened their eyes to the many shades of grey that exist in reality,

I doubt if Spud sees any shades of grey based on his 12:10 post. Spuds America only has a black back heart and deserves everything that militant muslims decide to do to it.

America is, as are most nations, a collection of mostly well-intentioned, good people

So what? People are flawed. We all know that. But The Issue is whether or not America collectively, as a nation expressed thorugh it's government is trying to do good in this world. And by "good" I mean trying to defend those principles and protect those interests to secure and protect those freedoms and liberties spelled out in the declaration and Constitution.

And Spud apparently believes that America's intentions in this world are bad and evil.

And I disagree.

In fact, I think the most American thing to do is what we did after 9/11 -- our nation realized that we had suffered an attack on our culture and way of life that was reflective of global ideology that had made America it's prime target and we responded by attempting to defeat those totalitarian governments which we believed were integral to helping that ideology flourish.

In such an environment, the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq made perfect sense. removing the taliban which has supported al-Quaeda, and then removing saddam under the US policy of "regime change" which had determined even before 9/11 that a democracy in Iraq would be preferable to saddam who had broken numerous UN resolutions and threatened the world and his neighbors for more then a decade.

That no WMD's was found later on does not make the mission wrong or evil. Saddam did not become less evil because he was only bluffing about about how powrful he was. The idea that a democracy in Iraq would be a good thing for America did not become bad because no wmds' were found.

Yet many democrats and Spud certainly want us to believe that because mistakes have been made and the prosecution of the war has been frought with errors, that the entire mission is evil and America itself is bad.

And I just don't agree.

"the entire mission is evil and America itself is bad."

Straw Bowwows.

Sets them up himself and knocks them down again.

Just another form of playing with himself.

Bowa

God, you are just about the most ignorant human I have ever come across in my life.

We invaded a soverign nation that posed no threat to us.

THAT IS BOTH WRONG AND EVIL.

That makes the actions of our governemt wrong and evil.

That does not make America wrong and evil.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again.

Learn
to
read.

Straw Bowwows.

There's no strawmen here.

Spud, an apologist for all terrosit acts committed against this nation characterized America as an evil country engaged in :

"outright interference in (other) countries "

"America supports disctators and terrorists and bombs and kidnaps and tortures civilians."

"Commits coup d'etats."

"America has become is a government run by corporate will, protected by an obliging media, and imposing that will in a variety of immoral ways around the globe"

Now certainly our enemies would characterize America the same way Spud has. Enemies engaged in all of the above and far worse and for the most nefarious of reasons with evil intent.

But does spud really want to find a moral equivalence with what was basically a "hazing" done at "abu ghraib" by some moronic 20-something soldiers with the murder and wood chippers at Abu Ghraib under saddam?

And I wonder, does he really want to compare the "interference" in Iraq to remove an evil dicatator who had oppressed that nation for decades so that we could help 12 million people vote on and establish a democrracy , with the interference in the same country by Iran who wants to subject Iraqis to more of the same life they had under saddam.

For spud to reall ybelieve that America's will in this world is evil and immoral is to be blind to the will of Iran, Syria, al-qaeda or any number of nations who are the enemy of freedom, democracy, and capitalism.

We are interfereing in other Countries. Are we not in Iraq ?? Did we interfere in many other Countries affairs when it was Politically advantagous to do so?? Yep We sure did but You just conveniantly forget about them why is that I wonder. Could it possibly mean We are no better in lots of respects as they are?? We are too arrogant in this Country Lokisfur. It's either Our way or no way and that has been Our problem for Many Years. I can not believe that You would declare Abu Ghraib a Hazing Unbelievable. Oh and this Administration CONDONED and even sanctioned the maltreatment of the detainees. Yet You don't want to admit to this why is that I wonder?? Could it be You don't want reminded of what a Terrorist Dubya is and since You obviously support it don't want reminded about what You support. Yes it is intereferance when One COuntry invades another Country to change their form of Governese. Who died and left The United States God of the world?? I could go on LOKISFUR but it would only be a waste of time with You.

Larry

That makes the actions of our governemt wrong and evil.That does not make America wrong and evil. .

Wrong. The foreign policy actions of our government is America no matter how much democrats and liberals like like yourself want to deflect responsibility and separate America from what it represents and does in this world so that you can blame everything on Bush and the Republicans.

let me spell it out for you:

Removing saddam was a "good" thing. In fact, apolicy of regime change had been put in place prior to 9/11 by Clinton, who by the way unilaterlally bombed Iraq without Security Council approval. Not "evil"... a "good" move against an "evil" dictator.

helping the Iraqis establich their new elected government is a "good" thing.

Defending that governemnt and fighting agaisnt those forces which are trying to destroy the new democracy is a "good thing"

Just because later on we found out that saddam had been bluffing the world and pretending he had WMD's does not make his "threat" before the invasion any less real.

if it turns out that the Administration knew beyond any reasonable doubt they would find no WMD's when we went into Iraq, then Bush should be impeached. But the large majority of the world's intel pointed to a saddam that had WMD's, and was trying to get more. And after 9/11, that majority intel viewpoint could nbot be ignored.

democracy takes teim guys!!! and america is just trying to build a worldwide democracy one terrorist nation at a time!!!

sometimes you have to be really hard on people because they are slow to learn about freedom the way you want them to!! and some times nations are just too backward to rule themselves so we have to heelp them!!! mr hussein was really bad to his people and we had to do something about it because he was filling the planes up wit terrorists and he was planning to buld wmds out in the sand in iraq! he would have tried to hurt us again!!!!!! and he would have wasted a lot of oil doing it and that would have ben bad!!!!!

we have to fight terrorists, and if that makes a few more terrorists then we will fight them too so we can make the world safe for the usa to teach other nations how to act!!!!!

god loves us guys and he wants us to spread his love throughout the world to epoeple who dont know what gods love is because they are other religions and that is bad!!!!!

eventually we should have one world united under god so we can all live in peace and comformity. its moral and stuff!!!!! okay?

By golly Bush is going to make those Iraqis enjoy their Democracy and freedom whether they like it or not.

I'm trying to train myself to not read Bowa. It's like smelling a cesspool.

helping the Iraqis establich their new elected government is a "good" thing.

Except when it fails.

Defending that governemnt and fighting agaisnt those forces which are trying to destroy the new democracy is a "good thing"


Except when it fails.

Just because later on we found out that saddam had been bluffing the world and pretending he had WMD's does not make his "threat" before the invasion any less real.

No, it just means that Bush prematurely ejaculated our country into a pointless, un-winnable war.

Oh Poppycock Lokisfur More bullshit tripe from You. First off who died and made the United States God?? What right do we have to dictate(Wait a Minute Dictate Dictator Hmmmmmm )seems to Me the United States is playing DICTATOR towards the rest of the world) Hmmmmmmm If We hate DIctators why are we behaving just exactly like a dictator?? What utter gall do we have in telling Iran how to run their Country Or China or Japan Or wherever. Hmmmmmmmmm and then You wonder why they hate us so damned much. Oh and there was plenty of dissent upon Saddam's WMD's Hell even Colin Powell and COndi Rice said He didn't have them BEFORE it became Politically advantagous to state otherwise. This whole Illegal Iraq Debacle is the worst thing this Country has done to date. I can not believe there are still people shilling FOR IT. Makes You wonder where their collective heads are.

Sincerely
Larry Mohr

Thank God Lokisfur ain't Kin cause I would think seriously about Jumping off of a Bridge if He were.

Larry

Sitdown, you can characterize it that way. But you would be wrong.

We didn't just "occupy" Iraq nor are we occupying it now. Unless by "occupying" you mean that we are there to defend the legitimate, elected UN approved governemnt of Iraq. But i suspect that by the tone of your post youi mean that we are engaged ina forced occuspation of Iraq and that is simply not true -- though I am sure that al-Qaeda and Iran would agree with you.

As for us threatening Iran, I think it is Iran who has threatened another soveriegn nation (Israel), it is Iran which is trying to undermine the sovereign governemnt of Iraq, it is Iran which is continuing to develop nuclear bomb building cpapabilities agaisnt the wishes of the UN.

Your comment suggests that you are a supporter of Iran, your talking points seem to come straight from their ambassador.

Just asking. Are you Iranian, sitdown?

Posted by Bowa at 2007-04-15 10:33 AM | Reply |

I had other things to occupy me, but really Bowa, this and other posts today make me think you are seriously out of your mind. "We did not occupy Iraq nor are we occupying it now" Yes we did and we are. We are not "defending a legitimate government of Iraq" we are propping up a very questionable government of Iraq riddled with corruption and nepotism, (much like our own). We have lost all influence in the world by our rash and arrogant actions, spreading nuclear proliferation faster than at any time since the end of the Cold War.

Of course I'm not Iranian you idiot. I am an Amrerican Liberal who is so sick of the corruption in every level of this administration and beyond (World Bank) that I am surprised we are not yet having another Revolution! You need to get a little more critical in your reactions to the crap Bush/Cheney is feeding you Bowa. Gonzales will provide a little this coming week, maybe.

You have your head totally buried and you are not an unintelligent person, clearly, so why don't you look at reality for a change?

Loki, I don't know if you realize it or not but with this thread, which is bunk by the way, you have given every redneck, backwords, crazy christian, southern voter a reason to vote for a man of African descent for president...It will piss off muslims.

Thanks for that, although I don't think Obama will need their vote, he is going to take this thing all the way to the bank with no problems. The ball is starting to roll and won't stop until it gets to the White House.

Thanks again, DerflalokiBowa!

Obama '08!

What America has become" is the becaon of hope to all those people living in tyranny and under the threat of terrorism.

Bull Shit. America is viewed upons as the tyranical bully. Just look at Russia now. They were a strong ally 7 years ago, but today all you hear is Putin warning of the dangers of futher aggression by the US. We used to be the beacon of democracy but that went out when the moron invaded Iraq.

You of course, don't hear the voices of the 12 million Iraqis who voted for democracy.

And who now don't support America's presence in Iraq.

You only hear the voices of those that applaude3d 9/11, and those that seek to defeat America, to destroy the Iraqi and Afghani governments.

Once again a reich wing republican intellecutally dishonest argument. You are either for the aggression against Iraq without any questions or concerns or you are a terrorist supporter.

backwards, my bad

the ARROGANCE the West shows to the people of the middle east. Ike once asked why the people in the middle East hated us so damned badly and the response He got was because we are there. Had we not injected Ourselves into the Middle East 60+ Years ago We would not have had any attacks upon Our soils I Can 100% certainty State that.
-Larry Mohr

Yeeach! Have you EVER taken anything beyond a public school history course? Ever thought critically? The Middle East has been a mess for millenia, and it will be for a long time.

Was it arrogant to take out the Taliban who murdered tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of innocent people, giving them democratic freedoms, including dropping Muslim appropriate food packages for the civilian populations when we went into Afganistan with military force?

Was it arrogant to shut down the rape rooms (ever actually read the British intelligence reports on what Saddam et al had done) in Iraq, to militarily go into Iraq after between 300,000 and 1,000,000 innocent people were slaughtered by Saddam over the years?

Was it arrogant to take out the Taliban who murdered tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of innocent people, giving them democratic freedoms, including dropping Muslim appropriate food packages for the civilian populations when we went into Afganistan with military force?

Was it arrogant to shut down the rape rooms (ever actually read the British intelligence reports on what Saddam et al had done) in Iraq, to militarily go into Iraq after between 300,000 and 1,000,000 innocent people were slaughtered by Saddam over the years?

Posted by kirk at 2007-04-16 02:06 PM | Reply


Clue Phone here Kirk. Had we of not injected Ourselves in the Middle East There would have been NO Taliban/Al Qaeda. There would never have been a Saddam Hussein as a ruler. So You see YOU Don't study History beyond a High School Education. Now You was saying????????????????????

Larry