If it turns out she was lying about the whole thing, I hope that charges are brought.

No DNA evidence was found matching any lacrosse players with samples from the rape kit, while DNA from unidentified men was found on the accuser's body and clothing.

If it turns out that she was raped, just not by them, I don't know what the answer is.

Legal analysts and forensic experts have criticized what they call a critically flawed photo identification lineup -- a lineup that led to the identification and indictment of Evans, Finnerty, Seligmann.

Perhaps some culpability on the part of law enforcement?

Either way, this has forever changed the lives of these kids.

I hope these three players sue the pants off everyone in sight - the state, the school, and all those teachers signing the petition which prejudged them and destroyed their character and reputation.

I also hope the accuser whop changed her story numerous times is arrested and charged with every crime possible - filing a false police report etc.

"If it turns out that she was raped, just not by them, I don't know what the answer is."

I do.

You just don't go around accusing innocent men of rape! Throw her ass in jail!

If DNA of unidentified men was found, I highly doubt she was raped. If you were ever raped, you would know that your mind is in survival mode....not scheming, manipulating, lying mode. IMO, she wouldn't have been able to concoct a story about who raped her, trying to pin it on innocent men....especially these men that would cause attention.

This woman deliberately lied about rape, and she should be punished!

It's women like her, that cause real rape victims not to be believed.

Well put Lisa.

Thank you Spaulding.

When someone is raped, especially men, there is a strong feeling of shame that goes along with it.

She obviously lied about these Duke athletes.

I believe this woman had sex with someone, perhaps multiple men, then tried pinning it on these poor Duke players claiming rape to get the attention, knowing it would bring her, her "15 minutes of fame".

That is not the mind set of an actual rape victim.

This woman raped those Duke athletes, stripping them of a year of their lives that should have been focused on their future, raped them of their good name, raped them of their good standing in their community.

She needs to be taught a lesson.

I hope these three players sue the pants off everyone in sight - the state, the school, and all those teachers signing the petition which prejudged them and destroyed their character and reputation.

I also hope the accuser whop changed her story numerous times is arrested and charged with every crime possible - filing a false police report etc.

Posted by Bowa at 2007-04-11 07:39 AM


Well damn, just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water, along comes Bowa with something that I agree with 100%.

Anyone from NC know if the law is different than in GA? It's extremely difficult to sue a prosecutor or similar official for anything done on the job. Even if poor/misconduct can be shown.

Usually abortion is the choice after such an encounter. The idea of carrying it to term, with a baby of a different race, speaks volumes, IMO.

The woman needs to go to jail for this.

DOGMAN

There is a big question about the Attorney General's role in all of this, too. These guys should probably never have been arrested and charged.

Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong needs a good kick in the ass as well.

"The idea of carrying it to term, with a baby of a different race, speaks volumes, IMO."

What "volume" does that speak, Petrous??

Your racist "volume" is loud and clear!

"The idea of carrying it to term, with a baby of a different race, speaks volumes, IMO."

Yeah, after all, it's the babies fault at the end of the day. Unbelievable.

I guess Nifong couldn't get this case to "stand up in court".

"with a baby of a different race"

It's not human?
There are stories about stuff like that.

Jesse Jackson gave this 'poor woman' a scholarship. I wonder if he'll take it back?


I also wonder if Jesse and/or Al will comment publicly on this.

Good recall, Jeff. I had forgotten that.

If you were ever raped, you would know that your mind is in survival mode....not scheming, manipulating, lying mode.

Lisa, the human mind is a truly odd thing. Survival mode for one person amounts to remembering every single detail, including if the rapist had a single red stubble of facial hair, while for others, it is having the mind escape the body and remember nothing of the incident.

It could also be various levels in between.

I have no doubt this woman made false accusations and changed her story. This leads me to believe she accused the wrong men of the rape.

However, jusdging by what I know (admittedly limited) on this, I also have little doubt that she was raped.

It seems to me that her mind fractured, at least temporarily, during the event and she pieced together information she thought might be correct (ie, the accused had been, perhaps, overly suggestive, or possibly somewhat aggressive), then, during the rape, her mind shut down. She knew she was raped, but was not able to remember the details. (not as uncommon as most people think).

All of that having been said, she filed a false report, perhapse knowingly, pehapse not. I don't have the answer. She should face the law for that act.

I also wonder if Jesse and/or Al will comment publicly on this.

Posted by JeffJ at 2007-04-11 09:07 AM | Reply

I betcha that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson told Don Imus to make that derogatory statement so He could deflect attention away from this Duke scandal. That way they won't be bothered by it.

Larry

TEASING of course

Rev,

The DNA in her body didn't match ANY of the Lacrosse players.

IF she was raped, it must've happened BEFORE she went to that party. So, in that case she would've had to have been raped (multiple DNA was in her body) THEN went to the party and THEN reported her rape but ID'd 3 lacrosse players?

It doesn't fly.

I firmly believe she was NOT raped and is lying her ass off.

Jeff,

I'm not arguing the fact that she IDed the wrong people. I don't know whether it was knowingly or not. The fact is, you don't know that, either.

My nature requires me to give the benefit of the doubt to the idea that she WAS raped. Obviously, it was not by the people she accused.

Morning Rev:

Yes, some people actually block out that they were raped. That is protection/survival mode. They have subconsciously denied it ever happened. This happens to avoid facing it. Avoid dealing with the feelings that you are left with after being raped.

This does not fit with the actions of this woman. She had filed charges and was dealing with it on a daily basis.

I'm not a psychologist, and speak from my own experiences, as well as the experiences of those I have helped and I will tell you....I have not forgotten/scrambled/needed to lie about any detail regarding who my rapists were.

I will however follow your train of thought and say let's assume you're right and she remembers bits and pieces of that night and they are scrambled. After this much time has passed, the mind would most likely start putting things back together correctly.

I think she lied about being raped, period!

My nature requires me to give the benefit of the doubt to the idea that she WAS raped. Obviously, it was not by the people she accused.

Posted by RevDarko

Rev

Didn't she forfeit the benefit of the doubt with her lie? It's pretty obvious that she wasn't looking for justice. Indeed clearly she was looking for deep pockets.

A stripper, who may have been raped multiple times, by different individuals, I.D 'd the wrong rapist(s), and ruins their lives. A life style change me be in order.

"My nature requires me to give the benefit of the doubt to the idea that she WAS raped."

Being a victim of this crime, it's MY nature to give the benefit of the doubt as well.

However, things didn't add up from the begining.

"It's pretty obvious that she wasn't looking for justice. Indeed clearly she was looking for deep pockets."

I am 100% on Zap!

oops...I mean WITH Zap!

OMG

Lying Nappy Headed Ho!

Freudian slip Lisa????

Nice to have you back, I have missed you.

Rev,


You are correct, I don't know what is going on in this woman's head.

I know that rape is an almost unimaginably traumatic event, which could have profound effects on the mind. Nevertheless, I can't possibly fathom how she could have been raped prior to this party and then have 'recollection' of being raped at said party.

I think she is lying.

The fact that she thought she could get away with it makes her a dumb, nappy-haired ho.

oops...I mean WITH Zap!

OMG

Posted by Lisa


DRAT!

I am 100% on Zap!

Posted by Lisa at 2007-04-11 09:33 AM | Reply

He has better ummmm "Equipment" huh bwhahahahahahha

Larry

HAHAHAHAHAH

Morning 2112!

LOL

No...what I originally typed something else, rearranged the words...obviously incorrectly!!!

Thanks for the welcome back. I missed you guys too. Well, most of you! lol

I am 100% on Zap!

Posted by Lisa


How 'bout a couple of stiff ones, Lisa?

;-)

You knew you would catch hell for that one Lisa.

Nice laugh on this chilly Wednesday in the land of Zion.

Didn't she forfeit the benefit of the doubt with her lie?

Sadly, I have known too many rape victims in my life to allow that benefit to be forfeited. She has, to be sure, forfeited the right to accuse, but not the benefit of my belief that she was raped. She should be treated, at this point, as a rape victim who's attackers cannot be caught.

At least, this is my opinion.

I rarely blush but I felt my face reddened after that post!!

LOL

I'm so embarrassed.

Sorry Zap!

A lot of controversy. Based on information released it appeared the original prosecutor was not looking into details I would have expected before bring charges and making statements. I hope that is being investigated. I also hope the players, if innocent as I believe can go back to a normal life and or get some money from their experiences.

Has nappy-haired ho made Wikipedia yet?

"You knew you would catch hell for that one Lisa."

I KNOW!

lol

This will learn me to proof read before I hit publish, won't it?!

"How 'bout a couple of stiff ones, Lisa?"

OMG...that one too!!

LOL

I'm laughing so hard I'm crying.

I have such a way with words!!!!

Sorry Zap!

Posted by Lisa


For what, best offer I thought I had all morning...

I seem to remember that Sean Hannity was somewhat alone claiming that the Duke guys should be presumed innocent until proven guilty when the story broke. But what would that right-wing nut job know?

"For what, best offer I thought I had all morning."

lol

Your wife is going to watch me like a Hawk in June!!!

Ok...back to serious:

WISGOD:

Well for once Hannity got something right! : )

Jesse Jackson gave this 'poor woman' a scholarship. I wonder if he'll take it back?

I believe Tawana Brawley got scholarship money even after it was known she lied. In her case, she lied to protect herself from an abusive stepfather, and I don't think she ever thought her accusations would go beyond the family. Once, they did, however, she should have owned up to the truth, but by then it had become a national story and people like Jackson and Sharpton were counseling her.

God it's good to be right. Did anyone participate in the discussions here when this whole thing came out? I was called many hateful words because I said this fine young lady was lying the whole time. To anyone who called me a racist, a bigot, and whatever else...I'd just like to say again.

God it's good to be right.

" but not the benefit of my belief that she was raped. She should be treated, at this point, as a rape victim who's attackers cannot be caught."ff

She has lost ALL credibility, Rev.

Look, I'm the first one to believe women when they claim they are raped. But in this case, too many things didn't add up and now that it has been proven that she has lied once, there is no reason to believe her at all.

There are a lot of women out there that cry rape who weren't. It disgusts me.

I seem to remember that Sean Hannity was somewhat alone claiming that the Duke guys should be presumed innocent until proven guilty when the story broke.


Somewhat alone, bull. Regardless his batting average still won't get him to double A.

Rev:

I just wanted to add that your sensitivity towards women is wonderful!

It may be misplaced in this case, but I wish more men would adopt your attitude.

I think Sean Hannity couldn't even measure up to lil league T Ball

Larry

"Regardless his batting average still won't get him to double A."

It won't even get him scouted!

W is God-
Sean Hannity also believes that Iraq had active WMD programs based on the same limited information: His own prejudices.

That a stopped clock reflects the correct time twice a day is no surprise.

Somewhat alone, bull. Regardless his batting average still won't get him to double A.


Posted by Zap

Then Alan Colmes is still playing T-Ball. He proclaimed their quilt from day 1.

Lisa,

I appreciate your comments. I do fully understand why you (and others) believe this woman has lost all credibility. It's perfectly understanble.

I just come at this differently due to personal experiences.

Again, I don't thik she has the credibility to accuse anoyone else at this point, but I will still work off the assumtion that she was probably raped and should be concilled as a rape victim. If nothing else, it covers the possibility she was raped, but will prevent her from falsely accusing anyone else if she is, as most seem to think (and I'm not going to deny as a possibilty) looking for a payday.

Sean Hannity also believes that Iraq had active WMD programs based on the same limited information: His own prejudices
Posted by Boyd

I see how these 2 issues are related. Duke Rapist and Iraq WMD.

Then Alan Colmes is still playing T-Ball. He proclaimed their quilt from day 1.

Posted by wisgod


Absolutely but that is the quality of the competition both Hannity and fox want.

Wis

You're the guy who brought up Hannity and getting it correct in the same sentence.

W is God (LOL!!!)-
I stated clearly how they were related. As a member of the Republican cult of personality I can see how it may have been unclear to you. My sincerest apologies.

Boyd:

Sean Hannity also believes....
You tied it together nicely.

Whoa, I've been jumped upon...

""The idea of carrying it to term, with a baby of a different race, speaks volumes, IMO."

What "volume" does that speak, Petrous??


Your racist "volume" is loud and clear!

Posted by Lisa"

AND

"
"The idea of carrying it to term, with a baby of a different race, speaks volumes, IMO."

Yeah, after all, it's the babies fault at the end of the day. Unbelievable.

Posted by wisgod"


I'm sorry the point wasn't better made.
I'll try again...

If you are raped, they take you to the hospital and they perform the D&C - at least I thought that was the normal thing done.

Instead, she was raped and carried to term?

There's nothing racist about my remark and I certainly wasn't blaming the child.

I'm asking why a woman would carry a child as a result of a rape unless she was completely and utterly against abortion. Did she want to keep a child that had the possiblity of one of these three men as the daddy?

W is god (still funny in a rather sad way)-

Thank you.

Petrous-
Unfortunately, your point wasn't that a rape victim carried a baby to term.

Your point was about the race of the rapist. There's really no good way to spin that.

"If you are raped, they take you to the hospital and they perform the D&C"

Extracting semen is not the same thing as a D&C.

If I had gotten pregnant from my rapist, I would never have considered an abortion.

I apologize if I misread your intention in your earlier post, but it sure did seem like your issue was that a pregnancy could have occured with a memeber of a different race, therefore she would abort it based on that.

Those guys should really feel lucky and privileged to have all the mainstream media coming to their defense. I don't really like the idea that a man could be easily charged with rape when accused by a woman (such a terrible accusation).
But this story has been really interesting, it showed that if you have the media behind you then you could be innocent until proven guilty. And I honestly wish that would apply to anyone accused of rape...
I wish the basketball players at St Jonhs University had the same support, or the ones at LaSalle when falsely accused of rape (and unlike this case, they actually proved they were innocent).
All we know on this case, Nifong mishandled the case, and it seems that there are not enough evidences that show they did what the girl said happened!!! Something might have happened, we don't know.
But again those kids should feel lucky and privileged for having the support they got from all of you in this site and in the main stream media.

"But again those kids should feel lucky and privileged for having the support they got from all of you in this site "

These men have had their reputations ruined in their community.

Nothing we say here is going to repair that.

Not to mention what the parents went through.

Lisa

A dilation and curettage on a pregnant women would result in an abortion. This is a common method in clinic.

We are listening to our students. We're also listening to the Durham community, to Duke staff, and to each other. Regardless of the results of the police investigation, what is apparent everyday now is the anger and fear of many students who know themselves to be objects of racism and sexism, who see illuminated in this moment's extraordinary spotlight what they live with everyday.

We deplore the ignorance or bigotry of those who describe the gang rape of an African American woman by white European American men as "complicated." Sexual exploitation and rape are not complicated-- they are acts of sexual violence and violations of human rights. Racism and class prejudice are an intrinsic part of men's sexual assaults against women and are also intrinsic to commercial sex businesses. We must understand this crime for what it is: simultaneously a violent crime and an egregious abuse of sex, race, and class privilege.

Concerned Faculty
The following members of the Duke faculty have signed the Open Letter to the Duke Community, posted here.

Stan Abe
Benjamin Albers
Anne Allison
Srinivas Aravamudan
Lee Baker
Sarah Beckwith
Paul Berliner
Tolly Boatwright
Eduardo Bonilla-Silva
Jack Bookman
Matt Brim
Bill Chafe
Leo Ching
Elizabeth Clark
Rom Coles
Michaeline A. Crichlow
Kim Curtis
Roberto Dainotto
Leslie Damasceno
Ariel Dorfman
Laura Edwards
Grant Farred
Jeffrey Forbes
Mary M. Fulkerson
Erin Gayton
Jehanne Gheith
Margaret Greer
Michael Hardt
Erik Harms
Joe Harris
Kerry Haynie
Karla Holloway
Bayo Holsey
Mary Hovsepian
Sherman James
Alice Kaplan
Keval Khalsa
Ranjana Khanna
Fred Klaits
Claudia Koonz
Robert Korstad
Pedro Lasch
Caroline Light
Marcy Litle
Ralph Litzinger
Michele Longino
Wahneema Lubiano
Anne-Maria Makhulu
Tamera Marko
Paula McClain
Louise Meintjes
Sean Metzger
Walter Mignolo
Alberto Moreiras
Cary Moskovitz
Mark Anthony Neal
David Need
Diane Nelson
Jocelyn Olcott
Charles Payne
Charlie Piot
Ronen Plesser
Maureen Quilligan
Jan Radway
Tom Rankin
Marcia Rego
William Reichert
Deb Reisinger
Alex Rosenberg
Marc Schachter
Stephanie Sieburth
Laurie Shannon
Pete Sigal
Irene Silverblatt
Joshua Socolar
Kristin Solli
Helen Solterer
Fiona Somerset
Roxanne Springer
Rebecca Stein
Kenneth Surin
Susan Thorne
John Transue
Maurice Wallace
Priscilla Wald
Kathryn Whetten
Robyn Wiegman
David Wong
Tomiko Yoda

Lisa,
I don't know why you are so sure that these kids didn't do anything to this woman! Kids under the influence at a party!!! may be rape drug in her drink! and she couldn't remember exactly what happened to her, then made some statements. As someone mentioned earlier, with time a rape victim tend to recollect what exactly happened. May be that is why she has different statements(that the media jump on and discredit her), because she started putting everything together!!! But with all the media pressure that doesn't help, does it?
And again, it doesn't mean those kids are guilty, after all 'innocent until proven guilty'.
But you should know that with many of these cases, usually men are guilty until proven innocent. So they should def. feel LUCKY and PRIVILEGED to be treated as innocent until proven guilty.

There seems to be alot of evidence pointing to the prosecutor working in bad faith, including the fact that this was not dropped months ago. I would think both he and the accuser should end up in jail for this.

It is interesting that these young athletes have been defended in the press as we discuss other athletes who were only accused of making a run at a national championship. What would have been the response if Al Sharpton( or any notable Black) on his national radio program had call these Lacrosse player "Rich Cracker Rapist"? All those words are part of the american lexicon, hell I am sure a white rapper has used those words. You think there would be outrage.

Zap:

"A dilation and curettage on a pregnant women would result in an abortion."

I understand that. But it is not neccessary to strip the lining of the uterus to gather semen samples. It's done with cotton swabs.

Sorry, let me clarify:

It's not neccessary to do a D&C, which is stripping the lining from the uterus. Cotton swab sticks are used to gather semen.

My point was, not all rape victims have a D&C during their rape exam.

My point was, not all rape victims have a D&C during their rape exam.

Posted by Lisa

I understand, the D & C would reasonably assure there would not be a pregnancy.

It's about time these charges were dropped. They should have been dropped the day the DNA evidence came back proving they couldn't have done it.

What would have been the response if Al Sharpton( or any notable Black) on his national radio program had call these Lacrosse player "Rich Cracker Rapist"?

Same as every other time he's made racialy insensitive remarks or antisemetic remarks... nothing...

Sully,
The prosecutor working in a bad faith doesn't mean nothing happened! You can't tell me that those players have proved their innocence so far. All the media have done it is to discredit the woman, and to show errors made by the prosecutor!
If the media had gone after the players, we would have a different story. Lets take for example this line from an email sent by one of the players: have some strippers over" and made references to "killing the bitches," then cutting off their skin while ejaculating "in [his] Duke-issue spandex.
I don't know why aren't people outraged about this!!!
Again it doen't mean they are guilty!

You can't tell me that those players have proved their innocence so far

What are you just off the fucking boat? American citizens don't have to prove their innocence... its the other way around. The prosecution has to prove their guilt.

All the media have done it is to discredit the woman, and to show errors made by the prosecutor!

Cuz she's a lying hosebag and he's a piece of garbage.

The prosecutor working in a bad faith doesn't mean nothing happened!

huh????????????

Did you really mean nothing happened and the prosecutor was working in bad faith?

ROb_The_...,
I would like to know if I may ask,
What do you think about the Kobe Bryant accuser, the Michael Jackson and Mike Tyson cases as well???

You can't tell me that those players have proved their innocence so far.


It doesn't work that way.

Our judicial system is 'innocent until proven guilty', not the other way around.

We have time-stamp photos that prove the 3 accused weren't even at the party when the alleged rape occurred. The multiple men's DNA samples in her body didn't match the accused - in fact, it didn't match ANY of the Duke Lacrosse players.

What do you think about the Kobe Bryant accuser, the Michael Jackson and Mike Tyson cases as well???


Innocent until proven guilty.

Looks like someone slipped past the border patrol.

What do you think about the Kobe Bryant accuser, the Michael Jackson and Mike Tyson cases as well???

Posted by Le_Camer


Well Mike Tyson was convicted, so he is a convicted rapist.

Kobe and Michael are innocent in the eyes of the law, they were never convicted...

I personally thought Kobe was innocent until he paid her off... To me, as a man, being accused of raping someone is a pretty big insult, and if I didn't do it, I sure as shit wouldn't give someone millions for not raping her...

Michael Jackson is creepy... And he also has paid off a lot of people... Being called a child molestor is much worse, to me, than being called a rapist, I would defend myself from child molestation charges even if it cost me every penny.

I smell a payoff.

You can't tell me that those players have proved their innocence so far

Are you kidding?? As Rob mentioned, they don't have to, you've got it backwards. Furthermore, however, there's this little thing called DNA. This DNA thing sorta proves their innocence for them. If I need to explain how it works, I'd be happy to, just ask.

"Looks like someone slipped past the border patrol."

LOL

Well wisgod,
I guess most people are assuming that the prosecutro was working in a bad faith. And they concluded that since he was working in a bad faith, then those guys are innocent. I don't know about you, but I don't think that prove their innocence.

"I understand, the D & C would reasonably assure there would not be a pregnancy."

Agreed.

I was just trying to explain to what's his face up the thread that D&C's aren't always given to victim during/after a rape exam.

Man, I'm really having trouble today with words, I guess.

" but I don't think that prove their innocence."

The DNA did!!!

Better to have a payoff and it go away than to have to fight it in civil court. Ya know the cost of doing business.

Larry

PS Kobe I believe was guilty of using piss poor judgement and that is it.

Larry

Well wisgod,
I guess most people are assuming that the prosecutro was working in a bad faith. And they concluded that since he was working in a bad faith, then those guys are innocent. I don't know about you, but I don't think that prove their innocence.


Posted by Le_Camer

Seems to me it's the presecutors job to look at the evidense and if enough exists, issue charges. If they are not charged and the case is dropped, that doesn't prove their innocence?

The DNA did!!!

But we have to ignore that fact so we can keep crucifying them and calling them racist white bigot perverts.

Le-Camer are you...serious????

The evidence proved their innocence. No DNA matches, hell the players charged weren't at the party at the time of the alleged rape.

Nifong was looking to make a name by going after the rich white boys. There was never enough evidence to indict these boys, but Nifong manipulated what he had and supressed the evidence that didin't support his case.

Read up before pressing the submit comment button you monumental fool.

Better to have a payoff and it go away than to have to fight it in civil court. Ya know the cost of doing business.


If you're innocent then a trial is nothing to be afraid of.

"But we have to ignore that fact so we can keep crucifying them and calling them racist white bigot perverts."

This case should have nothing to do with race. I'm so sick of that.

It's a case involving a woman who claimed that she was raped and falsely accused men who didn't even have sex with her.

Perhaps that's her reason for lying!

Perhaps that's her reason for lying!

My opinion all along has been that she was just trying to set herself up to sue the boys' rich families so she could get rich the new American way!

Perhaps that's her reason for lying!

Posted by Lisa


LOL...

I'm thinking she also thought "pay-day." Bunch of private school kids playing a snooty sounding game, they have to be rich right? Wrong... most of these kids are from pretty humble upbringings...

She should have gone after the Polo team...

Well Rob,
Bill O'reilly said the same thing until he settled a case. You can't speak for that until you are in their shoes.

Well Arob and cghmsu,
Are you kidding?? As Rob mentioned, they don't have to, you've got it backwards

If you read my posts you would understand what I am saying. If you really pay attention to rape cases, you would realize that in too too many cases, men have to PROVE THEIR INNOCENCE. When a man is accused of rape, he is usually treated as guilty, which of course it isn't right. Especially with athletes, you guys can do some research on that. That is why I am saying those guys should feel LUKCY and PRIVILEGED for all the support that they got from the media without even having to prove their innocence.

And I didn't forget, this is America, Land of Justice:'Innocent until proven! guilty'

If you're innocent then a trial is nothing to be afraid of.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2007-04-11 11:35 AM | Reply

OJ Simpson need I say more. EVen though I believe He is guilty as sin criminally He was found not Guilty in the Criminal Courts but found Guilty civily.

Larry

My apologies Le Camer, I misunderstood you.

"The prosecutor working in a bad faith doesn't mean nothing happened! You can't tell me that those players have proved their innocence so far. All the media have done it is to discredit the woman, and to show errors made by the prosecutor!"

It is impossible to prove a negative. You should probably stop asking for someone to do that for you. It isn't a reasonable request.

The DNA evidence points to their innocence. The accuser's story constantly changes once evidence proves her old stories wrong. The prosecutor illegally buried evidence pointing to their innocence.

There is zero credible evidence pointing to their guilt and plenty of evidence leading one to believe they were framed. You want to lock them up anyway just because they are assholes who write nasty emails (which can be said of about 2/3 of college boys that age)? What is wrong with you?

I totally do not agree that the media defended the men. They tore him apart. So did the faculty, the alumni, and the public.

It turned around when the evidence from the defense was coming out.

Then, when the prosecutions evidence started coming out, it seriously looked like a campaigning issue with no credibility backing it.

The lawsuit from the players against the DA wouldn't be for being falsely accused but for the DA maliciously going after them by suppressing evidence for the indictment. If it can be proven that Nifong deliberately violated the law - the suit is reasonable.

Sully,
There is no point keeping arguing with you. Obviously this issue took a racial tone, and in this country when we have racial issues like these, people tend to get on the side they identify with. It is sad for justice but that is how it's been. And it is sad that people seem not to pass that race thing.
You don't know much about this case, I have watched it on tv, read it on the internet, but still I can't sit here and say if they are innocent or guilty. All I can say it is that the media really attack one side, the prosecusion side. Rightly or wrongly, I can't say. But if I was one of the player, I would have wanted that for me!
If people could really pass the race thing!!!!!!!

All the known evidence points to their innocence including the behavior and statements of the would be victim. I don't no about anybody else but I don't go around deciding people are criminals just because they are there.

On the other hand bringing false legal accusations like this is a crime.

DOGMAN

"If you're innocent then a trial is nothing to be afraid of.

Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole"


Is that why you don't support the death penalty?

DOGMAN

Is that why you don't support the death penalty?

DOGMAN

Posted by dogman


Mistakes do happen, which is why I don't support taking a step that is impossible to come back from.

But for the most part if you are innocent you have nothing to worry about from a trial... especially if you are rich like Kobe.

"Sully,
There is no point keeping arguing with you. Obviously this issue took a racial tone, and in this country when we have racial issues like these, people tend to get on the side they identify with. It is sad for justice but that is how it's been. And it is sad that people seem not to pass that race thing.
You don't know much about this case, I have watched it on tv, read it on the internet, but still I can't sit here and say if they are innocent or guilty. All I can say it is that the media really attack one side, the prosecusion side. Rightly or wrongly, I can't say. But if I was one of the player, I would have wanted that for me!
If people could really pass the race thing!!!!!!!"

Oh, so now I'm a racist because I believe that kids who were accused without evidence by a now proven liar are innocent? From what I've heard of the kids, they are probaby spoiled little assholes and they were probably making racist statements on the night in question and that probably led to the stripper's false accusations. But being a little shit is not the same as being a rapist as much as you want it to be.

You are the one bringing up race, not me. I don't think you are racist. I think you just can't admit to being wrong so you resort to old fallback of accusing people who disagree of racism. People like you are part of the reason this country still has racial problems.

And as far as who knows more about the case, I've stated more facts about the case than you have.

Le Camer:
Why do you have such a bug up your ass regarding these kids?

If any of you have read Shelby Steele's book, to me this is a classic case of white guilt. The people at Duke (out of misplaced guilt) wanted to be sure that they did not appear to be favoring the white men over the black woman. In the process the rushed to judgement, trampled all over these men's rights, made their lives hell for the past year, and who knows what permanent damage to their lives has been done.

Sully,
All i can say is WAOH!!!
Did you even read what I said???
Well if you pay attention to this issue, you will realize that, most blacks tend to believe the woman, and that most whites tend to believe the Lacross players. Like the Imus issue as well, insulting those girls!!!
I am just deploring that fact, people look at the issue based on racial experience. And somehow the real issue get lost.
Honestly, it is always sad that whenever athletes get accused, especially RAPE cases, they get punished first. Coaches usually lose their jobs, players suspended or kick out of school if they could never proved their innocence, even when they are not found guilty. And I AM AGAINST THAT.
What we have seen it is a public trial, and it seems the players are innocent in the eyes of the public opinion.
I wish that whenever people get accused, they are not punished before going through the judicial system.
I don't know why you would think that I call you a racist...
And I don't even know why so many people are so afraid of the word 'racist'.
Anyone thinking they are called 'racist', please get over urself, U R JUST ANOTHER HUMAN BEING LIKE THE REST...

If any of you have read Shelby Steele's book, to me this is a classic case of white guilt. The people at Duke (out of misplaced guilt) wanted to be sure that they did not appear to be favoring the white men over the black woman. In the process the rushed to judgement, trampled all over these men's rights, made their lives hell for the past year, and who knows what permanent damage to their lives has been done.

Posted by sawdust at 2007-04-11 02:10 PM |

In this case that appears to have some validity. Part of the issue is the desire to take rape allegations seriously on behalf of ANY woman, not just a black woman, but the racial and class politics of Durahm certainly came to bear here on the behavior of the prosecutor's office.

The University's handling of the situation on campus on the other hand was almost certainly influenced by overarching issue of sexual assault on college campuses. The school would overreacted every bit as much if the stripper were from Mars.

"Well if you pay attention to this issue, you will realize that, most blacks tend to believe the woman, and that most whites tend to believe the Lacross players."

I haven't spoken with many black people about this. But neither of the two black friends I've spoken to believe the dancer at all. Even guys like Al Sharpton distanced themselves from this as more info came out. I don't see anyone rushing to her defense except the white DA, who was taken off the case.

"What we have seen it is a public trial, and it seems the players are innocent in the eyes of the public opinion."

You're ignoring the fact that at first they were assumed to be guilty, even by their own school. Public opinion changed only as the facts came out.

As for the racist thing - you were saying that there is no point in arguig with me because people just side with their own race. Well, I think someone who always sides with their own race, right or wrong, is a racist. My opinion on this has nothing to do with race. I don't identify with those kids at all. They remind me of the type of prick I used to hate when I was in school.

If any of you have read Shelby Steele's book, to me this is a classic case of white guilt. The people at Duke (out of misplaced guilt) wanted to be sure that they did not appear to be favoring the white men over the black woman. In the process the rushed to judgement, trampled all over these men's rights, made their lives hell for the past year, and who knows what permanent damage to their lives has been done.

I disagree with you that this a classic case of white guilt, even though I agree that too many whites are afraid to speak up in fear to be labeled 'RACIST' which is ridiculuous.
Most schools if not every school would've been quick to fire the coach and suspend the players after such accusations. School like LaSalle, St Johns had similar cases. Players proved to be innocent, but they were suspended, and the coach at LaSalle was fired. The defense played that card of white guilt because, the race thing gets messy and people get turned off by it.

To Wis...
I have nothing again these kids, actually I feel bad for them. They are victim of a system that has been going on for too long, I want to point that it is not the first time such thing happen to athletes. And I hope that in the future whenever some athletes get accused, people won't jump to judgements.

How are they not bringing forth charges against this whore? She ruined the lives of three innocent men... what a crock of shit.

Rob,

She's already a victim because she's a minority. No sense holding a minority responsible for their own actions. They are entitled to make baseless accusations once in a while.

Rob - I don't know how the stripper hasn't been charged. Do the guys have to press charges? You figure that as the DA's office goes into fully CYA mode, that is one of the first things they'd do. They can't claim they are not guilty of misconduct without claiming that they were misled.

Morale of this story. You can anonymously and falsely accuse someone of a crime and when your lie is exposed, you get off without even receiving a slap on the hand.

Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained (or lost) by the accuser.

Jesse Jackson is demanding at the minimuum, some form of community service. The Rev. Jackson said lap dances would be considered.

Where is the apology from the black community on this issue? Where is the faux outrage? Imus is the racist du jour and all white guys are fair game.. this is getting out of hand.

Anybody catch the NC Attorney General's statement? Pretty harsh words for Nifong, and he flat out said the lacrosse players were innocent.

Imus is the racist du jour and all white guys are fair game.. this is getting out of hand.

Black Man's Burden?

How are they not bringing forth charges against this whore?

Cause she's a REAL nappy headed 'ho. And that's a touchy subject these days...

God it's good to be right. Did anyone participate in the discussions here when this whole thing came out? I was called many hateful words because I said this fine young lady was lying the whole time. To anyone who called me a racist, a bigot, and whatever else...I'd just like to say again.

God it's good to be right.

Posted by the_nether at 2007-04-11 09:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Well if you pay attention to this issue, you will realize that, most blacks tend to believe the woman, and that most whites tend to believe the Lacross players."

I don't agree with that.

I started out giving this woman the benefit of the doubt. As more information became available, I began changing my opinion.

It had nothing whatsoever to do with race.

She has apparently done this before and worse--stealig a cab and driving DUI, accusing someone else of the same charges she cooked up for these guys.

She is a psycho path. Even the lying bride got community service. These guys were heading to 30 year in prison.

It took a year to get declared "Innocent". They had money. We likely have some of this Nifong justice going on all over the country.

And Nifong needs to go to jail--he'll have fun there.

And the Reverands should be apologizing to the guys and those 88 Duke professors who condemned the team and the guys and the Coach was fired. They all need to go on air and apologize.

How much does anyone want to bet that this will Not happen?

Murphy

And the Reverands should be apologizing to the guys and those 88 Duke professors who condemned the team and the guys and the Coach was fired. They all need to go on air and apologize.
Posted by MURPHY

Or put through the same hell that these kids, parents, community went through. I bet every kid on every Duke sports team was taken aside because of this. And the DA needs to be a man and step forward to face everyone. Lord knows, he was in charge for 13+ months.

The only thing these fine young men who hire strippers did wrong was fail to pay this stripper/prostitute. She did what hookers do when they don't get paid - cry rape. I think everyone involved in this story is grimy, including Nifong and the fine young trust-funders from Duke.

where the hell are al and "the rainbow reverand" now? where's the aclu? doesn't anyone care about caucasion civil rights?

Civil rights are for minorities only Monster.

I hope that this case establishes a new standard by which cases of rape are filed and prosecuted. Unfortunately it is way to late for the many men (especially Black men) that have been wrongly accused and convicted.

From link above:
"As for charging Mangum in connection with her claims, Cooper said it was "not in the best interest of justice" to file charges against her."

Is this guy serious? I wonder, though, is it not in the best interest of justice, or the best interest of the state of NC's criminal justice system? Probably better to just let this issue fade...

The only thing these fine young men who hire strippers did wrong was fail to pay this stripper/prostitute. She did what hookers do when they don't get paid - cry rape. I think everyone involved in this story is grimy, including Nifong and the fine young trust-funders from Duke.

Posted by mOntecOre

This is kind of how I feel. You play with fire, sometimes you get burnt. Do I cry when a Heroine user ODs?

All of you defending the players seem to have no problem that they were holding this hooker party to begin with. I suppose that you feel prostitution should be legal then?

It has everything to do with race Lisa. Take your head out of the sand.

Mike Nifong held press conferences announcing their guilt prior to any charegs being filed, hell, before he even talked to the victim, so he could get elected. He was personally responsible for the month long parade of public protests ROASTING the entire team. By your all's standard, anyone who ever went to a dtrip club deserved20 years to life!!!!His inflammatory comments were made to disgrace the players, and incite racial hatred. Appeasers to the end, most of the dr left lept at the chance to spit on the students.

The prosecutor now faces liability charges, and disbarement. All others who buried the player should be ASHAMED.

But that doesn't fit the typical dr left does it. Now you say you questioned the situation. THAT is complete and TOTAL BULLSHIT

"It has everything to do with race Lisa. Take your head out of the sand."

Take yours out of your ass, Dave!

First of all, I'm not responsible for what Nifong has said or done, however....you're claiming he said they were guilty PRIOR to talking to the victim....where's your link to support that???

I have said that I did not look at race when this first broke, nor do I now.

Secondly, go back and read my past posts. I stated my concerns about this woman telling the truth shortly after this all started. I even had a strained discussion with a poster here when I questioned her statements and her motives.

The fact that you think you know all is COMPLETE AND TOTAL BULLSHIT.

And that DOES fit the typical dr right, doesn't it?!

If your White and you are charged with a crime against a Black you will be GUILTY until proven innocent

thats the way it is

If your White and you are charged with a crime against a Black you will be GUILTY until proven innocent

Posted by mark61099

Well, whose fault is that? The Blacks or the Whites who have been commiting crimes against them for hundreds of years?

Today on the network news they were interviewing the father of one of the students and he was expressing his anger against the college, the Durham police, the DA, and the judges. Listening to him made me believe somebody is going to have to pay for this travesty.

Looking at Tawana's picture, her face just screams lying whore.