Christopher J.C. Fernandez, 28,

of Dededo, Guam; sergeant, Army National Guard. Fernandez was one of two guardsmen killed March 5 when their vehicle overturned in Dire Dawa, Ethiopia. Serving with the U.S. anti-terrorism task force in the Horn of Africa, he was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 294th Infantry Regiment in Barrigada, Guam.

Alberto Garcia Jr., 23,

of Bakersfield; private first class, Army. Garcia was killed Tuesday when his unit was attacked with small-arms fire and an improvised explosive device in Baghdad. He was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 26th Infantry, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Infantry Division in Schweinfurt, Germany.

Blake M. Harris, 27,

of Hampton, Ga.; staff sergeant, Army. Harris was among four soldiers killed Thursday when a roadside bomb exploded near them in Baghdad. He was assigned to the 1st Squadron, 8th Cavalry Regiment, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division at Ft. Hood, Texas.

Raymond J. Holzhauer, 19,

of Dwight, Ill.; lance corporal, Marine Corps. Holzhauer died Thursday in a nonhostile incident in Iraq's Al Anbar province, west of Baghdad. He was assigned to the 2nd Maintenance Battalion, 2nd Marine Logistics Group, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Stephen M. Kowalczyk, 32,

of San Diego; specialist, Army. Kowalczyk was killed Wednesday when his unit was attacked with small-arms fire in Muqdadiya, Iraq, northeast of Baghdad. He was assigned to the 6th Squadron, 9th Cavalry Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division at Ft. Hood, Texas.

Thomas L. Latham, 23,

of Delmar, Md.; sergeant, Army. Latham was killed March 11 when a roadside bomb exploded near his Humvee in Baghdad. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 14th Infantry Regiment, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division at Ft. Drum, N.Y.

Terry W. Prater, 25,

of Speedwell, Tenn.; staff sergeant, Army. Prater was among four soldiers killed Thursday when a roadside bomb exploded near them in Baghdad. He was assigned to the 1st Squadron, 8th Cavalry Regiment, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division at Ft. Hood, Texas

(continued below)

Angel Rosa, 21,

of South Portland, Maine; private first class, Marine Corps. Rosa was killed in combat Tuesday in Iraq's Al Anbar province, west of Baghdad. He was assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 6th Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Division, 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Lejeune, N.C.

Adam J. Rosema, 27,

of Pasadena; specialist, Army. Rosema was killed Wednesday when a roadside bomb exploded near his vehicle south of Baqubah, Iraq, north of Baghdad. He was assigned to the 215th Brigade Support Battalion, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division at Ft. Hood, Texas.

Jonathan K. Smith, 19,

of Atlanta; specialist, Army. Smith died March 11 in a noncombat-related incident in Baghdad. He was assigned to the 115th Brigade Support Battalion, 1st Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division at Ft. Hood, Texas.

Douglas C. Stone, 49,

of Taylorsville, Utah; sergeant first class, Army Reserve. Stone died March 11 in a noncombat-related incident during a training mission in Iraq. He was assigned to the 96th Regional Readiness Command in Salt Lake City.

Forrest J. Waterbury, 25,

of Richmond, Texas; specialist, Army. Waterbury was killed Wednesday when his unit was attacked with small-arms fire near Ramadi, Iraq, west of Baghdad. He was assigned to the 3rd Battalion, 69th Armor Regiment, 1st Brigade Combat Team, 3rd Infantry Division at Ft. Stewart, Ga.


Nathanial D. Windsor, 20,

of Scappoose, Ore.; lance corporal, Marine Corps. Windsor was shot in the neck Tuesday while questioning detainees in Iraq's Al Anbar province, west of Baghdad, and later died at a military hospital. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 7th Marine Regiment, 1st Marine Division, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force in Twentynine Palms, Calif.

Daniel E. Woodcock, 25

of Glennallen, Alaska; sergeant, Army. Woodcock was killed March 11 when a building exploded near his patrol unit in Ad Dawr, Iraq, north of Baghdad. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 505th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division at Ft. Bragg, N.C.

Don't you feel guilty using the deaths of these men to forward an ideology that directly conflicts with the hopes dreams of the vast majority of these same men?

They volunteered to serve; many reenlisted because they felt it was worth the risk.

Why dishonor them this way?

Just because they aren't alive to tell you no doesn't mean what you are doing is right.

re: "Don't you feel guilty using the deaths of these men to forward an ideology that directly conflicts with the hopes dreams of the vast majority of these same men?"

To whom are you speaking, CaliforniaChris, or the President?

I don't think the vast majority of the soldiers involved in any war hope and dream of death. I think they hope and dream of survival. These guys, for what ever reason, did not make it. Be a little respectful, Zulu.

Why dishonor them this way?

This dishonors them? To ignore the deaths of these soldiers would be a dishonor. A memorial such as this is the opposite.

Zulu


Sounds as though you disapprove of the way the Vietnam war dead are memorialized in DC.

Or is it that you hate to be reminded these were real living people?

Why dishonor them this way?

Just because they aren't alive to tell you no doesn't mean what you are doing is right.

Posted by zulu at 2007-03-18 09:32 PM | Reply

Zulu - I always took you to be the kind that would say they are looking down on us from on high, telling us what we are doing is right or wrong.

I see no harm in reminding people that useless death in a useless cause is uselss death- it does not demean those who died in any way.

re: "Don't you feel guilty using the deaths of these men to forward an ideology that directly conflicts with the hopes dreams of the vast majority of these same men?"

To whom are you speaking, CaliforniaChris, or the President?

Posted by Boyd


He's speaking to YOU! (and the rest of the yellowdogs)

We don't think it's appropriate to use dead soldiers for political gain.

Last-
As long as we're grouping people into categories, "YOU" don't seem to want to recognize that honorable citizens are dying at all, or that the wounded should be cared for properly.

It's embarassing to you, as it should be.

Lastamerican: It's also not appropriate to use living soldiers for political gain.

Last-
Allow me to clue you in: Most in the US have finally awakened to the glaring fact that the Bush administration has done great harm to the USA, and is not to be trusted.

And they're right.

Boyd,

Let me clue you in. There is a time and place to honor the dead. Here is not it!

Can you stick to the subject please?

Lastamerican: It's also not appropriate to use living soldiers for political gain.

Posted by woe_is_W


Who is doing that? Can you elaborate?

If it's political gain, than what good for the Republican Party has come out of it?

"Most in the US have finally awakened to the glaring fact that the Bush administration has done great harm to the USA, and is not to be trusted."


Good point Boyd.

It would also be true to substitute "US" and "USA" with "the world." Except they knew it long before we (collectively) did.

As long as we're grouping people into categories, "YOU" don't seem to want to recognize that honorable citizens are dying at all, or that the wounded should be cared for properly.

When did I say this?

You just saying things to be saying things?

Did the "not appropriate" statement get to you?

It would help if you were being honest when you answer my posts!

"Who is doing that?"

Bush and Co. are. What good has it done? It helped them get re-elected in 2004. Other than that, pretty much nothing.

Off the deep end with the first post. A simple list of names is now such a reminder that even publishing it is using it for political gain.

Apparently it would be preferable to keep the fallen hidden. Invisible. Unknown.

Oh wait - that would be truly political, wouldn't it?

I see no harm in reminding people that useless death in a useless cause is uselss death- it does not demean those who died in any way.

Posted by sitdown


Sitdown,

Let me try and explain to you. Better yet, go and ask a Marine if he would like his mother to protest and lie about America in honor of his death. Ask him if would want his mother to behave like Cindy Sheehan? Her son was dishonored.

That's what I mean by inappropriate.

Apparently it would be preferable to keep the fallen hidden. Invisible. Unknown.

Oh wait - that would be truly political, wouldn't it?

Posted by YAV


Not at all, Yav, there is a time and a place for it. THIS AIN'T THE PLACE!

"Who is doing that?"

Bush and Co. are. What good has it done? It helped them get re-elected in 2004. Other than that, pretty much nothing.

Posted by woe_is_W


Thank you. So you agree then.

Last-
Where is the place?

Not at all, Yav, there is a time and a place for it. THIS AIN'T THE PLACE!

That's not for you to decide, nor if you were so concerned would you or Zulu have been the ones to bring politics into it. You'd be respectful and reverent to our Fallen.

LA

So I gotta ask, why would I believe you would know anything about what a combat Marine would want his mother to do?

LA

So I gotta ask, why would I believe you would know anything about what a combat Marine would want his mother to do?

Posted by TedBaxter


I watch my son tell my wife not to behave like Sheehan if he were killed.

"So you agree then."

I'm glad we agree that using soldiers inappropriately helped the Republicans get re-elected in 2004 and that this is a tragedy.

Thanks for your affirmation.

That's not for you to decide, nor if you were so concerned would you or Zulu have been the ones to bring politics into it. You'd be respectful and reverent to our Fallen.

Posted by YAV


Wow, how freaken deep Yav. If I didn't know we were on a politically far-left blog, I would think you were full of crap!

Thanks for your affirmation.

Posted by woe_is_W



You didn't answer the question. You afraid?

How does this help the Republican Party?

"You didn't answer the question. You afraid?

How does this help the Republican Party?"

Just when I thought we were good. :-)

I answered at 10:41. It helped the Republicans get re-elected.

It did not help the country at large.

If I didn't know we were on a politically far-left blog,

Even the most obvious contradictions don't register.

Last-
Are you seriously claiming that the Republican Party did not use the troops to bolster their image and paint their contenders as traitors in 2004?

Okay, so you have every right to be proud of your son. If you think he's coming out of this experience unchanged and as gung ho as before, you are naive. If you didn't become angry as hell if he were not to come home I would say that would be unnatural.

I watch my son tell my wife not to behave like Sheehan if he were killed.

yeah, your son is not in the military and your wife is protesting the war!!!

What the hell happened to you? The least respectfull individual on this thread is you, and the fact you are unable to understand this is frightening.

Think you need to listen to your wife, stop using your son in a lie, and sit in a dark room for a while doing some soul searching on your moral behavior.

Let ME explain it to YOU, Lastamerican - I would be proud to have Cindy Sheehan as my mother.

Let ME explain it to YOU, Lastamerican - I would be proud to have Cindy Sheehan as my mother.

Posted by sitdown


Are you serious? I know you a little more than I want to.

G'night.

yeah, your son is not in the military and your wife is protesting the war!!!


he's a Marine. Going to Iraq in Summer. Now, please shutup. BTW, I didn't read the rest of your post. Was there anything important?

If I didn't know we were on a politically far-left blog,

Really?

Then what, in your opinion, would be a moderate blog?

And, perhaps you didn't catch this part...

The Defense Department last week identified the following American military personnel killed in Iraq and Ethiopia or who died at a military hospital of their injuries.

If you think he's coming out of this experience unchanged and as gung ho as before, you are naive.

Where did I say that little teddy?

Last-
Are you seriously claiming that the Republican Party did not use the troops to bolster their image and paint their contenders as traitors in 2004?

Posted by Boyd


No, I agree with you Boyd.

Exactly the same words are coming out of the White House Now, telling Pelosi not to cut funding to the war.

You didn't have to say it, I know you think it.

You are naive.

And, perhaps you didn't catch this part...
The Defense Department last week identified the following American military personnel killed in Iraq and Ethiopia or who died at a military hospital of their injuries.

WhatsLeft,

Perhaps you didn't catch that the source of this article is far-left and the D.Retort is far-left.

Bullshit. Honoring the fallen troops by listing them in this manner is only partisan if people make it partisan.


This is a partisan blog.

The posting of the thread is political, IMHO.

Matt Drudge does it by linking to this site on the front page ...

Matt Drudge is not protesting the war, he's honoring the dead.

LA

You obviously have not read the op ed pages of the LA Times lately. Hardly far left. They actually seem to come down on Bush's side fairly often.

"the source of this article is far-left and the D.Retort is far-left"

Only seems that way to you, coming from your far right perspective.

Last,

There is no place you can list the names of the dead and not make it political.

The Wall in Washington is just as political a statement as listing their names here, or the LA Times.

Lastamerica is just being an asshole!

Recognizing our dead soldiers is clearly a patriotic thing, and the only way to do this with any type of honor is reading the actual names of those who gave their life for this country.

Matt Drudge is not protesting the war, he's honoring the dead

Matt Drudge is shilling for the BushCo agenda...same as you.

LastA-
Yes, the "far-left" LA Times endorsed Schwarzenegger for Governor.

But I suppose that when you are so unhinged and wrong, everyone becomes your enemy.

Many Iraqis were executed in front of Coalition forces unable to intercede because Bush 41, who told them to rebel, then told Coalition forces to 'stand down' and not protect them while they pleaded for their lives with Republican Guard forces to no avail.

I'm in Iraq. List their names. Nothing wrong with that. I hope this helps folks see them as people.

I hope this helps folks see them as people.

Unfortunately, too often, the Left uses the fallen troops as pawns. Wailing about their loss on one hand, while doing everything they can to undermine the war effort to make sure they died in vain.

Wailing about their loss on one hand, while doing everything they can to undermine the war effort to make sure they died in vain.

It is said that if you always tell the truth you never have to remember what you said.

Two weeks ago it was:

"The Left uses fallen troops as pawns...."

Time to renew my call for Young Republicans, aged 18-25, to leave school wherever they are at the end of this semester and enlist. They might like to see how it feels to be a pawn.

We can bitch about these hypocrites refusing to join the war they support so much in Iraq, but it will have no effect.

These people like who they are. And who they think they are are leaders, not grunts.

These young men will be running for political office in a few years on predictable platform of bellicosity.

If history is any guide, faced with opponents decorated for service in Iraq, they'll question the manner in which the medals were awarded.

No, we dont. You know that we don't. What the left doesn't want is anymore of our bravest men and women to die for what many of us feel is a fool's errand. It is not an unreasonable position to take and just as you have the courage of your convictions so too do we have the courage of ours.

Trees, it is not an unreasonable position to take to support Congress de-funding the war as authorized by our Constitution.

What is unreasonable and heinous in my opinion, is those on the Left who would try to obstruct the conduct of the war, by trying to do an end run around the separation of powers -- hypocritically stating all the while that they support the troops in their mission while doing everything they can to undermine their ability to complete it.

"...by trying to do an end run around the separation of powers --"

End run? Around the separation of powers?

You mean like this:

"Trying to do an end run around separation of powers...."

The irony is so thick I may gag.

The irony is so thick I may gag.


It is often proportional to the poster's thickness of skull.

to do an end run around the separation of powers

Given that it is Congress that has the Constitutional authority to both declare and finance a real war, end runs are not really necessary.

Given that it is Congress that has the Constitutional authority to both declare and finance a real war, end runs are not really necessary.

Tell that to the democrats. They have the power to cut off funding at anytime, yet they would rather play hypocritical games pretending to suppoert the troops while trying to undermine their mission.

It is shameful.

Bowa,

I don't consider myself particularily dense, but I swear even looking at the actions of this current Congress sideways I don't see how they are trying to circumvent the seperation of powers.

This isn't a deflection and I really want to understand how it is that you have come to your reasoning.

It is shameful.

No, Bowa.

Shameful is accusing patriotic Americans of not supporting the troops because you disagree with their political opinions.

That is trite, under-handed, intellectually dishonest and, oh yeah, .... shameful.

Wailing about their loss on one hand, while doing everything they can to undermine the war effort to make sure they died in vain.

Posted by Bowa at 2007-03-19 07:17 AM | Reply |

They died in vain, Bowa and thats a big part of the tragedy. I said it four years ago and nothing has changed my mind.

If the Iraqis somehow manage to pass the US-inspired oil bill, maybe some will say they didn't die in vain. But I still say sending young soldiers to fight for oil is immoral and shameful, and a waste.

Lost American also claims to have an Irani wife who recently converted to christianity. I'm thinkin that to forbid her to protest the war is a position with which she is familiar.

"Lost American also claims to have an Irani wife who recently converted to christianity."

He also claims to have a son who...

Well, see for yourself:

Two weeks ago it was:

You would think that a parent would know if their child was in Iraq.

Ouch.

Wailing about their loss on one hand, while doing everything they can to undermine the war effort to make sure they died in vain.

Posted by Bow

Uh, that would be the folks at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue

Why haven't you enlisted in the National Guard or Reserves? 'Armchair patriot' is what you are. You can't sacrifice like you expect our troops and their families to?

I did my two combat tours. You?

BOWA

One more thing:

There IS no military victory possible. Korea and Vietnam proved that.

The longer our troops stay in Iraq the more die. THAT simple.

If we haven't 'won' it in 4 years, if things are worse now than before, please enlighten us with your incredible military mind how YOU suggest we 'win' it in Iraq?

Whenever we leave - 6 months (more) or 6 years - they're gonna have it out. The Sunni have merely left areas of new American concentration.

Bush 41 could have prevented all this if he had only backed the Shiite and Kurds who bravely answered his call to rebel.

Bushes are bad for Iraqi and American lives alike. There's all the proof you need if you examine the evidence.

This thread rarely saw anyone from the Republican side of the aisle. VERY rarely.

I'm glad some are stopping by now. It's good to see the price we're paying for the incredible ineptness at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

As someone who's held dying platoon members, I can tell you that most here have NO idea what it's like in combat. As the U.S. military doesn't allow pictures of wounded or killed, it's impossible to get across to the righties the true cost of war, and how much our military is suffering in every way from casualties to readiness. We're drilling a hole in the ground with every week.

If you love our troops and our military get 'em the hell out of Iraq ASAP

Meanwhile, God bless the souls of these true patriots.

I commend CaliChris for the continued posting of the losses we suffer in the war. Though I don't agree with his way of thinkin always we can come together here. In fact this is one one a few things I will read on this here shitstain of a blog. Any of you tadpoles ever attended one of these funerals and pay respects silently? Doubt it. Keep it coming Chris, good job.

RODEGLIDE

I've been to three Iraq related funerals so far. You?

We don't think it's appropriate to use dead soldiers for political gain.

Posted by LastAmerican at 2007-03-18 10:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

LostAmerican,

I sure hope you didn't vote for Bush then. He ran in 04 on a platform of having to "stay the course", resulting in these very deaths.

p.s. What office is CaliChris running for that he stands to make "political gains"?

How does this help the Republican Party?

Posted by LastAmerican at 2007-03-18 10:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lost,

Do you mean other than all of the compnaies that back Bush and other republican politicinas all in the name of sticking their fingers into the great corporate welfare project that is Iraq?

Do you think the repubs aren't going to be expecting large contributions to the RNC?

OORAH

Update on Bob: He goes to Rawah www.fallingrain.com on April 2nd. His flight back to Pendleton went fine. He admits to his brother he's a bit scared of what he'll encounter, but he won't admit that to my wife or me. He'll be there 7 months.

I'm glad you're keeping us posted on Bob and how he's doing. I looked at the map you linked and it seems so desolate over there. You know that many of us here will be thinking of him and the others. I've posted a copy of the USMC prayer below. We'll dedicate it to Bob and pray for his safe return back home.

United States Marine Corps Prayer

Eternal God, we humbly beseech You that your hand of mercy extend to all United States Marines from sea to shining sea, from ports near and far, amphibious bases and airfields, to embassies around the world.

Wherever our Marines stand watch this day may they be persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate them from the love of God.

Lord, stand beside these Marines whom you have called to serve. Help them to serve honorably. Give them courage, strength and skill, and if they are called to sacrifice may it be worthy of their Lord.

For the tasks that lay before the Commandant and Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps, we ask an extra measure of strength. When they pass through the waters, make known that you will be with them, and when they walk through the fires they shall not be burned.

God, we pray that you would sustain our Marines, and just as they are always faithful to the Corps, we ask that you would call them by name, and they would hear your voice and they would be faithful to you.

Semper Fidelis.

OOHRAH

Things have changed regarding this thread, apparently. Both sides had agreed to keep this free of partisan shots. There's plenty of opportunity to vent elsewhere - couldn't we return to the way it had been?
...

My post just above this one is for you too in case you didn't see it.

As for this thread "changing," it is unfortunately the work of one person -- LASTAMERICAN -- who has been hijackiing it these last few weeks by coming on and baiting people into arguments with his comments.

LASTAMERICAN even wrote about a month ago on here that if his son gets killed in Iraq he doesn't ever want his kid's name to be listed on the "Some Gave All" thread -- as if I would even know who he was.

You would think that with his own kid allegedly going over to serve in Iraq he would have more respect for an thread put up only with the intention of honoring other sons, brothers, and husbands who did not make it back alive. Not much you can do about him and his lack of respect for our country's deceased veterans except to ignore him. But don't let LastAmerican stop you from paying a visit here and also keeping us informed on how Bob is doing. I hope he has a chance to be able to keep in touch with you and your wife from over there as I'm sure you'll both worry until he's back home again.

The problem there is the same here, none of the politicans want to fix the problem beacause they can make more money leaving it all the way it is. There is no political will to be effective or succeed.

Cal-
You and I have no control over what others post to this thread. Whoever 'started it' doesn't mean others need to pile on. A simple 'take this somewhere else' sufficed in prior Some Gave All threads.

Whether left or right, I can hopefully speak for everyone in wishing for a safe return home for all our troops. Where we differ is in what constitutes a 'successful' mission and the degree to which it's important we're even there in the first place. Those latter arguments ought to be on another thread.

Rawah does look to be pretty isolated. I think we have a sizeable base there, but may be wrong about that. Is that part of Anbar province? I think Anbar is a nest of hornets, so while it may be somewhat desolate it could be a haven for armed conflict.

He's talked of some of the sophisticated weaponry we have. Night vision, etc.

Did I mention recently he'd been out at 29 Palms in California for training? Apparently it's also the place where Charles Manson's "family" was... and still remains. They're creepy, almost zombie-like.

I can't think of the drill instructor's name, but Bob got his autograph on a sweatshirt in a Target/WalMart at Pendleton. He's the DI on Full Metal Jacket and on those weaponry shows on cable TV. An older guy. Can't recall his name.

Whether left or right, I can hopefully speak for everyone in wishing for a safe return home for all our troops. Where we differ is in what constitutes a 'successful' mission and the degree to which it's important we're even there in the first place. Those latter arguments ought to be on another thread.

Posted by OohRah at 2007-03-20 07:43 AM | Reply

You're right. There is ALWAYS at least one Iraq war-related thread on this blog every day of the week that give people the option of hashing out their opinions on the war rather than this particular one. LastAmerican's behavior and attitude on this thread towards our military guys who lost their lives is a disgrace. He's always trying to make this particular weekly thread a partisan battleground rather than keep it a memorial for those who died.

Cal-
Yes, that's the DI... he has the Mail Call show on History.

LastAmerican is far from the only one at fault. Though he started it most recently... I remember multiple times in the past where lefties started their drum beat first. To their credit, when you or I or someone else asked them to mellow out they usually did.

Chris

I just want to say that I really appreciate that you do this every week, and of course that we all wish it wasn't necessary in the first place.