Sorry, but the Republicans are the ones who have fought Medicaid tooth and nail...

In this case they killed this boy...they were penny wise and pound foolish...what would have cost $80 ended up costing $250,000...

Half a Trillion for a vanity war in Iraq and not one red cent for our own children....

There should be no uninsured children in America...

Shame on you....

What a sad story. The fact that we have children dying in this country due to lack of health care is disheartening.

I am a Registered Republican. While I do not think Bush is "evil" as others here, I do agree that he seems to forgive waste regarding fighting Iraq, but funds for Medicaid are scrutinized for waste, ad nasuem. Staying in Iraq is important to me. But not so is decent health care for working people (not just the poor).

Bush is but one part of Medicaid and its funding. However, he could provide some leadership and use the bully pulpit to push real health care for all as he pushes for funding for Iraq.

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron.
--Dwight Eisenhower 1953 speech

Bad New just out

New Home sales down 37 percent in January

Existing single family home sales down 16 percent in January,,,

these are terrible numbers

sorry the 37 percent is for the West only

I am listening to Bernanke testifying...he is using the same sing song voice as Greenspan....

gloomy very gloomy

We are in "the calm before the storm" referring to the deficit....he says...

I think the only answer is to euthanize the population when they reach age 65...

or demand married couples have at least 4 children...

All of Congress and all members of the president's administration should lose all health care benefits and be allowed only those that are provided to all other Americans. Then they should get exactly what we get, nothing more nothing less. It should also apply to pensions and pay raises.

""I think the only answer is to euthanize the population when they reach age 65...""

Should I feel threatened??? That isn't that far off for me. Could we maybe make it 75. I doubt I will care that much after that.

Now that the Dems hold congress and the senate, let's see how long it takes them to do something... but that would take a 5 day week

"A routine, $80 tooth extraction might have saved him. If his mother had been insured."

Or if she had $80.

Or if she was willing to pay $10 a month for 8 months.

No, it isn't her fault she didn't take her kid to the dentist, it's rich peoples' fault for not paying more taxes to give her free health insurance.

If he would have used that tooth to pull himself up by the bootstraps we all would have won.

1. He would have yanked the tooth out.
2. He could afford the insurance for his welfare queen mother's Cadillac.

Now THAT'S American!

I wonder if they had a TV that cost more than $80 in their home?

Or if she had $80.

Or if she was willing to pay $10 a month for 8 months.

No, it isn't her fault she didn't take her kid to the dentist, it's rich peoples' fault for not paying more taxes to give her free health insurance.

Hey my man...you tell me what you would have rather done, Mr. Fiscally responsible?

Pay the 80 bucks that they don't have to get the tooth taken care of?

Pay the 250k that they don't have to pay for brain surgery and medical care as the result of the tooth?

You're paying either way...that family isn't. Which do you prefer? Though I'm sure your answer is to deny medical care to poor people.

OK, both kids have bad teeth... One has six the other has a severly abcessed tooth that eventually kills him... They could not get to a dentist.... And this is all bush's fault because of the war in IRAQ... Interesting...

Outside of the sarcastic attitude above It is a shame that this child died. I am against the government providing a universal health care for adults capable of work though...

If you are 17 and under, disbaled, or over 65 I think the government has a responsibility to assist... outside of those categories... NO, I pay my own insurance, have to wait sometime 2 weeks to get into my dentist. One that takes my insurance. Why should i pay for someone else. I have worked hard to get where I am... Why should i be responsible for another adult that is just as able as I... Sorry I'm not for it...

Please read the article... the STATE said, "blah blah blah"... and understand how things work. The STATE is responsible for this sort of thing.

""No, it isn't her fault she didn't take her kid to the dentist, it's rich peoples' fault for not paying more taxes to give her free health insurance.""

Just wondering, if this child could be brought back to life, would you pay a little more tax to make it happen???
Or would it be more fun to just make hateful comments about his grieving mother?

$80 turned into $250,000.

Now multiply that by the 45,000,000 uninsured in America that wait until the condition becomes so bad that they go to the ER for treatment.

Universal coverage would lower our health care costs, but of course that would be against the status quo of mega profits for health insurers so it is communist.

Preventative care is much cheaper than ER care. My own idiot brother is tantamount to that. Instead of taking his high blood pressure medication (which has a $1 co-pay.... 1 fricking dollar) he waited until he had a stroke. The bill until to date is $314,000 and climbing.

Why do I have to pay for some poor slobs health care?

Sincerely,

The right.

The only way to 'fix' healthcare is to massively expand the government. ANY argument to the contrary is simply a function of neo-con corporate greed.

- The Left

YEAH!

Now to be fare, this woman also had another kid with "a mouth full of rotten teeth".

While I agree that universal healthcare is a wiser way to spend those premiums I am paying for but never use (more noble to care for the young and old and better than buying some fat ass a new vacation home) taking the other facts of this story into account leads me to believe this woman sucks as a mother regardless.

Now this is not an excuse or a way of marginalizing this kid's death, its sad and needless, however something tells me that even with access to healthcare this woman still would be a suck-ass mother!
A toothbrush is not that expensive and teaching you kid's good personal hygiene is just common sense!

There are numerous instances one could use to illustrate the need for universal healthcare for the very old and very young; this is NOT one of them!

Who said that the only way to fix health care is to expand the government?

You are right though neo-cons and corporations are greedy and heartless; neither could care less about the poor in this country. If it were up to them we would deny health care to the poor just to kill them off.

One more point this is a kid who died not an adult who had been abusing the system his whole life. This kid didn't even have a chance to make something for himself, but who cares, he was black, and on welfare, he wouldn't have amounted to anything anyway, right neo-cons?

This is classic!


This woman has a kid who has a toothache and she doesn't do shit about it.

The tooth gets so bad that her kid dies and suddenly it's somebody else's fault???

If only we had government-run healthcare this never would have happened?


Jesus!

Does personal responsibility EVER enter into any equation for some of you?

Who said that the only way to fix health care is to expand the government?


Dude. Look up on this thread.

Basically, it's up to the American people to decide if we want Universal Health Care.
The conservatives decided that every man, woman and child in this country should pay $1600 (so far and not including interest) to pay for Bush's Iraq adventure, but they get all upset when liberals suggest we should all chip in for universal health care.

If only we had government-run healthcare this never would have happened?
Posted by JeffJ at 2007-02-28 03:46 PM

YEAH! You mean we don't?

Define "Government Run".

""The only way to 'fix' healthcare is to massively expand the government. ANY argument to the contrary is simply a function of neo-con corporate greed.

- The Left""

Any attempt to do anything about health care to make it affordable for all is just a commie pinko idea of someone who hates America.
America can afford needless cruel wars but not health care.
Profit is another word for God to many Republicans.

Ahh the personal responsibility mantra, the favorite of the right.

Once again this was a kid who died, he is responsible for his own death?

I never said the mother wasn't at some fault here, but we still have a duty to make sure that children in this country are clothed, fed, housed, and receive proper medical treatment. I am not saying we have to give money to their parents - some of whom probably aren't deadbeats like you are thinking - but we can come up with ways to take care of our children.

Some people are so fucking heartless. I hope to God the shoe is on the other foot for you guys one day, I really do.

If only this had been a white kid, then maybe people would feel differently.

"If only this had been a white kid, then maybe people would feel differently."

I didn't look at the race of the kid before commenting. That you would bring it up is pretty stupid.

You don't have to think about race, all it takes is the reference to welfare and the right assumes the kid is black.

This has nothing to do wit greedy people. The article says:

A routine, $80 tooth extraction might have saved him. If his mother had been insured.

The article makes it sound like the only way he could have gotten his tooth pulled is if he had insurance. Anyone can walk into a dentist's office and be treated. If you don't have insurance, you pay the full costs of your procedure, which in this case was $80. Even if you don't have the $80, most places will send you a bill and you can pay it little by little.

I can't believe I'm explaining dental billing procedures to a bunch of people who are playing dumb just so they can pretend like they have a reason to support government-run healthcare and raising taxes.

We have plenty of white veterans who the president and the REpublicans don't give a crap about so race doesn't necessarity make any difference. It is just mostly about tax cuts and greed.

"all it takes is the reference to welfare"

Who said anything about welfare? The only information I had before I posted was that the people didn't have insurance and didn't think they could afford an $80 dental procedure.

JOE I think everyone already knows that but the article just sparked a debate about healthcare in general.

Do I dare say it..."God helps those who help themselves"

Flame away

Anyone can walk into a dentist's office and be treated.

Joe, while that may be true in suburbia, that isn't necessarily true with inner city providers. Especially if this woman had skipped out on bills before.

I don't have to play dumb to come up with reasons for gov't run health care, there are countless children who receive poor health care today on top of being malnourished and under-educated.

What's more we don't need to raise taxes to provide these necessities. We just need to cut spending in other places. See the Eisenhower quote above.

Danni I think race does play an issue, but you are correct as to the greed and heartless factor.

I never said the mother wasn't at some fault here, but we still have a duty to make sure that children in this country are clothed, fed, housed, and receive proper medical treatment. I am not saying we have to give money to their parents - some of whom probably aren't deadbeats like you are thinking - but we can come up with ways to take care of our children.


When you use the word "but", you are effectively canceling out whatever you said that preceded it within the context of the point you are making. So, let's re-print your post eliminating via editing what you've eliminated via your use of the word "But":


we still have a duty to make sure that children in this country are clothed, fed, housed, and receive proper medical treatment. we can come up with ways to take care of our children.


OK, now that is a more accurate depiction of what you were conveying. Typically ANY opposition to government assistance is pooh-poohed as 'greedy, cold-hearted, etc'. There are plenty of ways to assist the poor that have nothing to do with government. Yet, ANY suggestion to the contrary in some Left-leaning circles is met with this:

Some people are so fucking heartless. I hope to God the shoe is on the other foot for you guys one day, I really do.

""Do I dare say it..."God helps those who help themselves"

Flame away""

And apparently God doesn't give a crap about children who couldn't help themself. If that's your god then I feel sorry for you.

Joe,

You are absolutely correct.


I just contracted a guy who is taking on the work I provide (about 15 hours per week) in addition to his full-time work to pay for his daughter's braces - his insurance doesn't cover orthodontics. He just signed a 2-year contract to the tune of $230 per month to pay for her braces.

""There are plenty of ways to assist the poor that have nothing to do with government.""

Look out, here comes the pitch for religious organization being given tax dollars to do what government just can't do. We'll just give the money to churches and let them decide who gets it for what. Yay God!

Jeff you're the one who brought up personal accountability, obviously you don't even think something should be done to help impoverished children in this country, even if it is outside the government realm.

BTW Jeff don't ever fucking edit my posts again or you won't receive any responses from me ever again.

How do Great Britain and Canada manage with their health care for ALL.....

It's the MEAN GREEDY fucking Republicans...

They fought Social Security, the fought Medicare and Medicaid, they fought every measure to make work places safe, and they don't give a fuck about the environment as long as they are feathering their nests...

George Bush and all the CONS like you are responsible for this boy's death...and George you are responsible for over 3,000 lives wasted in you VANITY WAR...

I said it before.... read the article. The STATE is responsible for wellfare.

As regards universal health care. Ask my family in Canada. The time between an MRI being designated "appropriate" and the actual MRI.... 173 Days.

Anna will be buried in the Bahamas...

TAXMAN, what did Jeff EDIT....

Anyone who edits reposts should be banned from the DR....

""As regards universal health care. Ask my family in Canada. The time between an MRI being designated "appropriate" and the actual MRI.... 173 Days.""

Considering that we already pay far more than Canadians, per capita, for health care there is no reason to expect such slow service. Our Medicare system doesn't require such waits and I personally think we should just expand Medicare to cover everyone.

""As regards universal health care. Ask my family in Canada. The time between an MRI being designated "appropriate" and the actual MRI.... 173 Days.""

Considering that we already pay far more than Canadians, per capita, for health care there is no reason to expect such slow service. Our Medicare system doesn't require such waits and I personally think we should just expand Medicare to cover everyone.

Sounds as if the mother wasn't riding the system. It appears from the article that she works, but none of her jobs provides health care, and the family was in a Medicaid lapse. It's just sad that poor people have to live the way they do.

I don't wish to sound judgemental, however I find it interesting that the right-wing has somewhat "adopted" religion and the moral high ground in this country, yet most of what I read here from the right tends to be very less than compassionate. It's always "Not my problem," or "They shoulda done (what I would do)" without taking into consideration the vast disparity between your culture and that of poor and uneducated human beings.

The sad fact is that between events such as this (and yes, the mother ultimately is responsible for her children) and the horrid Katrina response, the U.S. comes up very short in terms of civilized behavior in comparison to other industrialized western nations.

Taxman-

"What's more we don't need to raise taxes to provide these necessities. We just need to cut spending in other places. See the Eisenhower quote above."

Good luck getting government to do that. As of now, if you are an advocate of government healthcare, you are an advocate of raising taxes. There is no way you could ever get the government to actually cut spending enough to finance such a massive project. I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible, of course it would, but it will never happen.

"Joe, while that may be true in suburbia, that isn't necessarily true with inner city providers. Especially if this woman had skipped out on bills before."

I don't go to dentists in suburbia, i go to them in a heavily populated urban area. You can always find a dentist willing to treat you without insurance, they will send a bill to your home. I have done this many times, and I know that it is possible, especially for a procedure as mundane as a tooth removal.

An MRI in Canada taking 173 days...I know better....it must have been for a face lift or something like a cyst removal ...

What a lie....

Another question that arises naturally from this story is, Where is/was the father or fathers?

Too many women take on the role of mother and father, and allow the father to skip along and impregnate the next 'ho.'

Statistically, this is the scourge of the black community (highest rates of single mother households). Strong black women and weak, childish black men who shirk responsibility.

Congrats Republicans. You could care so little about your fellow man you got one of them killed. I know it's not your problem because you have a good job and can support yourself. Republican is the party of greed and to say otherwise is a lie. Maybe if you weren't so greedy with every last penny we wouldn't have this type of unfortunate incident. Tonight when you sit your fat ass down in front of your big screen just remember a child died so you could afford it.

This is classic!


This woman has a kid who has a toothache and she doesn't do shit about it.

The tooth gets so bad that her kid dies and suddenly it's somebody else's fault???

If only we had government-run healthcare this never would have happened?


Jesus!

Does personal responsibility EVER enter into any equation for some of you?


Well, she's only working 3 jobs...certainly not showing much responsibility.

Well, she only made 25 phone calls to try and find a dentist that takes Medicare...not very responsible there.

Once she did find a dentist and made an appointment, to get the oral surgery done it would take 3 months...have anything to do with personal responsibility? I suppose, she could have threatened a dentist that doesn't take Medicare with violence if they didn't fix her son's teeth.

Oh, ok...here it is. "Then the family went through a crisis and spent some time in an Adelphi homeless shelter."

String the bitch up.

Funny flag byrdman.

to Joe..and others like him...

Not sure were you live but I have lived in a lot of places and Dentists are NOTORIOUS for not accepting Health Insurance and for insisting on immediate payment for services.

Why? Because they can. Only recently was any form of dental insurance offered for even the Federal government employees.

It has been a joke around here that our eyes and our teeth are apparently not a part of our bodies because they are never covered by any plans we are offered. Even now you must pay for dental and Vision care Insurance out of your own pocket.

In this area we were unable to get a Dentist to accept any type of Insurance payments until this year.

Also, I find it creepy and dishonest for anyone that says the mother is at fault. I have three children and health insurance and a steady job and I still have trouble keeping up with all the appointments etc required to manage them properly.

I can only imagine the difficulties faced by a poor unemployed (black) mother in meeting the medical needs of growing (black) boys amid all the other problems she is faced with daily.

lack of clothes, transportation, food, telephone, or even a warm bed and a shower, etc.

Yet you fat cats with your computers and internet access sit in judgement of her?

You make me sick.

Shame on you all.

There is really only one way you ill ever really learn. I hope your God teaches you a lesson.

I have read through this thread. As a broker of employee benefits I can tell you that dental insurance is a LOSER!!! For what is charged it doesn't make any sense to have it. I would self-insure that exposure.

Why in the hell would I pay a premium to transfer the huge risk of $80???

Where else are you doing that Scarey? Most employers I work with have gotten rid of dental insurance to cover the increase in medial premiums. Most would have done it sooner if they felt they could get out of it.

Agreed it is a great employee benefit but we are talking about a mother who could have fixed this with a small amount of money.

same problem....Americans who claim to value health care but don't really value health.

I didn't sit in judgment of her. I only said that it isn't just the lack of insurance that was the sole preventer of her getting the kid's tooth pulled. Are we not allowed to talk about this without being accused of judging people?

The War In Iraq Costs

$404,233,241,315

Instead, we could have insured
242,055,833
children for one year.

Well, she's only working 3 jobs...certainly not showing much responsibility.

It didn't say she worked 3 jobs. It talked about 3 jobs she had held in the past...

And Yes i do care that this poor kid died. I stated above that we have a responsibility to protect kids in this country.

We do not have a responsibility to protect people who are just as able as we are however. It has nothing to do with taking care of your fellow man, or showing compassion it has to do with ones self. My dad worked 2 jobs when i was a kid to put food on the table and my mom worked one full time job to help with the other bills. My family couldn't afford to put me through college. I joined the service served my 4 years, got my education, and now have a good job. PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHERE IT SAYS THAT SINCE I DID IT I AM NOW REPSONSIBLE FOR SOME POS THAT WONT...

SORRY LIBS if you want to spend your tax dollars taking care of those that don't want to help themselves then have at it but DO NOT TELL ME I HAVE TO... I have been there, poor with no money... I pulled myself out because I did not want to be in that situation. We all have that opportunity... that is what is great about this country.

The War In Iraq Costs

$404,233,401,166

Instead, we could have insured
242,055,928
children for one year.

I think I read today that the government will take in 1.3 TRILLION THIS YEAR...

And we are well on our way to spending half a TRILLION on George's Vanity/Revenge Loser....

We have already lost...this money should have gone back into our economy instead of the twisted bunch of companies that spring up out of Haliburton and Blackwater....


DIDN'T ANY OF YOU LISTEN TO BLACKWATER TESTIFY BEFORE CONGRESS...

They explained a ponsi scheme of 3 and 4 companies each one adding 35% so that the cost have more than doubled by the time these BASTARDS bill you and I, the taxpayers...

Armyof1 this wasn't a 32 year old man that died it was a kid. You just don't care abut kids do you? It is one thing to have no pity on adults but you don't even have pity on kids who can't fend for themselves.

Also, I find it creepy and dishonest for anyone that says the mother is at fault. I have three children and health insurance and a steady job and I still have trouble keeping up with all the appointments etc required to manage them properly.

I can only imagine the difficulties faced by a poor unemployed (black) mother in meeting the medical needs of growing (black) boys amid all the other problems she is faced with daily.

lack of clothes, transportation, food, telephone, or even a warm bed and a shower, etc.

Yet you fat cats with your computers and internet access sit in judgement of her?

You make me sick.

Shame on you all.

There is really only one way you ill ever really learn. I hope your God teaches you a lesson.

Posted by donnerboy at 2007-02-28 04:42 PM


OMG I must be a horrible person... Your Right donner the republicans and fat cats that run this country should take sole responsibility for this child whos mother did not take care of him properly.

KNOCK IT OFFF... I am not saying the mother is solely responsible, however, she does bare some of the blame. After all they are her kids... The fact that she could not find a dentist that accepted the Government's insurance is sad. in this case it cost a child his life unnecessarily. And dont take this as an attack but if our congress would knock off the BS of nonbinding resolutions and actually do some damn work( DEMS, REPUBS, LIBS INCLUDED IN THiS) maybe these types of issues would get resolved... it is not solely their fault either though. However, they are more interested in show and flashy referendums than actually helping this country...

LEAVE THE DAMN RACE CARD AT HOME... There are just as many white, asian, and hispanic kids that face the same types of issues so get over it...

If for no other reason, this is a story that needs to be told over and over again. Preventive care and health maintenance, such as regular check-ups, is so important. How cost effective is it to let the uninsured become chronically (or even mortally) ill by witholding basic and preventive care?

Armyof1 this wasn't a 32 year old man that died it was a kid. You just don't care abut kids do you? It is one thing to have no pity on adults but you don't even have pity on kids who can't fend for themselves.

Posted by byrdman at 2007-02-28 05:01 PM |

Where in any of my postings do ever state that i dont have pity for kids. I have said over and over and over again that our government has a repsonsibility to take care of them. They deserve a chance to make a better life... OMFG, KIDS ARE THE FUTURE OF THIS COUNTRY... IF, you would actually read my posts instead of jumping to conclusions you would see that...

TC i agree, this story needs to be read to every member of congress over and over again. Maybe they would make a change but I doubt it. It wouldn't pull them enough votes. Which is all they care about now. Hell there is an election next year. Doctors need to determine the healthcare for patients not the darn insurance companies.

obviously you don't even think something should be done to help impoverished children in this country, even if it is outside the government realm.


No, that is not obvious. Nor is it an accurate reflection of how I feel about helping the needy.

BTW Jeff don't ever fucking edit my posts again or you won't receive any responses from me ever again.


Ooooohhh!


My editing was to clear out what was non-pertinent to your original post.

Not sure were you live but I have lived in a lot of places and Dentists are NOTORIOUS for not accepting Health Insurance and for insisting on immediate payment for services.

What dentist ever takes health insurance? Dental coverage is always separate where I live......always.

Yet you fat cats with your computers and internet access sit in judgement of her?

You make me sick.

Shame on you all.

There is really only one way you ill ever really learn. I hope your God teaches you a lesson.

Okay, now that is uncalled for.

I have to laugh at this whole thread. Although the main subject of the article is quite sad, it depicts our problem in this country.

There is absolute no reason why we do not have universal health care, none. The only reason the right are fighting this is the money they have invested in those private industries.

This issue will get greatly worse as the years go on if we as a nation don't take care of our people.

The right have NO moral or ethical ground to stand on here, they are standing on a idealogical position so they can gain more money and profit. This is the real sad commentary of the RNC and its' supporters.

You are a horrible person...

if you cannot place yourself in the shoes of the poor for a moment and realize how difficult these things can be and how we have a RESONSIBILITY to help them.

Race is an issue because...

Hispanic and black, non-Hispanic children are disproportionately represented among the ranks of the uninsured. More than 22 percent of Hispanic children and about 13 percent of black, non-Hispanic children are uninsured, compared to 7.5 percent of white, non-Hispanic children

The War In Iraq Costs

$404,237,938,717

Instead, we could have insured
242,058,645
children for one year.

BTW Jeff don't ever fucking edit my posts again or you won't receive any responses from me ever again.


Ok, so you get all kinds of pissed off that I had the temerity to edit one of your posts to prove a point, and you go apeshit. You then proceed to erroneously assign positions to me depicting me as a vile, heartless asshole:

obviously you don't even think something should be done to help impoverished children in this country, even if it is outside the government realm.


1. Consider naming yourself pot or kettle.

2. Have a beer and chill out.

RESPONSIBILITY

Jeff you decide the what is pertinent and what is not in my posts? When were you granted that authority. I like debating with you but if you are going to be underhanded by amending my posts, that will have to end.

I didn't amend your post Jeff.

What dentist ever takes health insurance? Dental coverage is always separate where I live......always.

Posted by eberly at 2007-02-28 05:10 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

Wow! Such ignorance!

Removing wisdom teeth is a medical issue and can be used as such.

The coverage from medical to dental is in the small print, some people read it.

Although I'm all for a sensible health insurance plan for all Americans I really have to agree that the mother here bares the brunt of the responsibilty for her child's death. Sounds cruel, I know, it even sounds cruel to me, but it's true.

How ignorant can you be these days? My God, even kids in Kindergarten learn about oral hygiene.

I don't know what the tooth looked like but it may have just needed to be lanced which you can do with a pin if needs be. Or pull the tooth out. Anything.

insurance be damned, if a kid's tooth is THAT bad, then a good parent will find a way to get the problem fixed and worry about the money later. Out of love. Period.

This Washington Post article is just exploiting the sad death of this little boy to trumpet it's own agenda, by the way. That's pretty sad, too.

Republicans only want good health for their families while Dems want everyone to be healthy. This thread clearly illustrates that.

Tax,

obviously you don't even think something should be done to help impoverished children in this country, even if it is outside the government realm.

This is a good statement.

Jeff J.'s may not think this but his actions portray this.

His intentions are not in line with his actions.

There is absolute no reason why we do not have universal health care, none.

You've gotta love such aboslutist statements. There are PLENTY of reasons to oppose universal health care, and they've been laid out countless times on these threads.


The only reason the right are fighting this is the money they have invested in those private industries.

Translation: You disagree with my desire to massively expand the government, therefore your ONLY motivation and reason for doing so is greed.


This issue will get greatly worse as the years go on if we as a nation don't take care of our people.

Except that every remedy attempted by people who view the role of government like you have produced abysmal results. Look at the war on poverty, the promises of the sexual education and the notion of vastly increasing the scope of 'rehabilitative criminal punishment'.


The right have NO moral or ethical ground to stand on here,


Sure we do.


they are standing on a idealogical position so they can gain more money and profit.

Actually, it is YOUR side that is using this tragedy as fodder to support YOUR big power-snatch via governmental collectivism. Pot meet kettle.


This is the real sad commentary of the RNC and its' supporters.

This is disgusting use of this kid's tragedy to try and score political points.

What dentist ever takes health insurance? Dental coverage is always separate where I live......always.

Posted by eberly at 2007-02-28 05:10 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

that is because some bean counter in some windowless room somewhere decided that your teeth and your eyes are not part of your body.

This article clearly shows that your teeth can have a major (fatal?) effect on your overall health...therefore your teeth should be covered under your health insurance...

Jeff you decide the what is pertinent and what is not in my posts? When were you granted that authority. I like debating with you but if you are going to be underhanded by amending my posts, that will have to end.



I didn't amend your post Jeff.


I think your point is banal, however if it really bothers you that I ammended your post, I won't do it in the future. Sometimes we just have to pick our battles and this isn't one that is worth fighting for me IMO.


Jeff J.'s may not think this but his actions portray this.

His intentions are not in line with his actions. - $War

This is nothing but an attempt to try and paint me as vile simply because my counter-arguements to your collectivist Utopia bother you.

Hispanic and black, non-Hispanic children are disproportionately represented among the ranks of the uninsured. More than 22 percent of Hispanic children and about 13 percent of black, non-Hispanic children are uninsured, compared to 7.5 percent of white, non-Hispanic children


Ok donner you want to look at numbers ok. What is the population density in this counrty.

According to the Census Bureau, 2005 American Community Survey the US population is as follows:

* White American, 74.7%, or about 215.3 million (the definition of White includes European Americans, North African Americans, Middle Eastern Americans (e.g. Arab Americans), Central Asian Americans, and Hispanic Americans who reported as White in the 2000 Census)
* Black or African American 12.1% or 34.9 million
* Asian American 4.3% or 12.5 million,
* American Indian 0.8% or 2.4 million
* Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander 0.1% or 0.4 million
* Two or more races 1.9% or 5.6 million
* Other 6% or 17.3 million


So by these #s

13 percent of black, non-Hispanic children are uninsured, which equals 4.5 million,

compared to 7.5 percent of white children which equates to 16,125,000... YEA thanks for spouting the numbers. LOOK IT UP....

YOUR RIGHT MAN RACE DEFINITLY HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT...

Removing wisdom teeth is a medical issue and can be used as such.

bullshit. If they are pulled then it is dental...not medial. IN any case, if they are cut out then it is major medical.....and a dentist doesn't do that....an oral surgeon does.

got anything else to insult me with?

JeffJ you don't have a leg to stand on. You despise offering any type of insurance. We had a discussion about that fact a few weeks back.

Bella,


I agree 100% with what you said.


However, brace yourself to be labelled as all sorts of nasty things because nobody is ever responsible for their own actions according to some.

Sheets,

Your satire is weak - go read some Professorbates' posts and then practice.

No satire involved. I am just speaking the truth about you and most of the greedy rethuglicans who post here.

We do not have a responsibility to protect people who are just as able as we are however. It has nothing to do with taking care of your fellow man, or showing compassion it has to do with ones self. My dad worked 2 jobs when i was a kid to put food on the table and my mom worked one full time job to help with the other bills. My family couldn't afford to put me through college. I joined the service served my 4 years, got my education, and now have a good job. PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHERE IT SAYS THAT SINCE I DID IT I AM NOW REPSONSIBLE FOR SOME POS THAT WONT...

SORRY LIBS if you want to spend your tax dollars taking care of those that don't want to help themselves then have at it but DO NOT TELL ME I HAVE TO... I have been there, poor with no money... I pulled myself out because I did not want to be in that situation. We all have that opportunity... that is what is great about this country.

You're going to pay either way. Either 80 dollars or 250k. Which would you rather pay?

Say it with me class...

You are paying either way...it's your choice: 80 dollars or 250k?

Since you're at it, tell me how a 12 year old child is "just as able as we are"? While you're in your ivory tower talking about what a horrible person this child's mother was, (which includes her making 25 phone calls to find someone to take their Medicare, I like how you glossed that over) a child has died AND the taxpayer is going to pay for the 250k instead of the 80 bucks necessary.

If you were so concerned about your vast fortune, you'd be interested in getting out the ounce of prevention to those who should have it (children and the elderly) instead of who to point the finger at when the pound of cure fails.

Greed has nothing to do with it. It has to do with the priciple of it. Why should we be responsible to pay for adults when they are more than capable to do it for themselves.

Dont role me into your REPUBLITHUG category though... I have stated that there needs to be support for children, the disabled and the elderly. They need the help. Able bodied adults though. WHY SHOULD MY HARD WORK TAKE CARE OF THEM!!!!

If you were so concerned about your vast fortune, you'd be interested in getting out the ounce of prevention to those who should have it (children and the elderly) instead of who to point the finger at when the pound of cure fails.

Posted by IraqiBukkake at 2007-02-28 05:33 PM

Apparently you have not read all of my posts or your are a complete and total moron... Im going to assume the first. Read my posts it will answer most of your questions...

You are paying either way...it's your choice: 80 dollars or 250k?


Some greedy neocon bean counter did the math and decided it would be cheaper to pay the 250K compared to paying the 80 bucks multiple times. If a child dies no big deal to the rethuglicans because it was not their kid.

Currently, most carriers I am familiar with here charge approximately $65/mo for dental coverage for a family. That coverage included about a 80% co-insurance payment on "preventative" services such as cleanings semi-annually (x-rays once annually). Basic and Major services come with a $50 deductible and a maximum annual benefit on this coverage is usually $1,000 a year.

I am good friends with 3 dentists.....they will take pretty good cash discounts if they don't have to submit insurance paperwork. I've done the math and it is a waste of money to pay for dental insurance for my family at those rates. For preventative services for my entire family of 4 I won't pay (in cash) more than $650/yr.

granted, my family has pretty good teeth and if we knew we would need additional services each year then I might consider insurance but if you actually have preventative services performed then the need (for most people) for additional services very often is rare.

Money as good as universal healthcare sounds it is not feasible in this country. The sheer number of citizens prevents it. Not to mention the cost involved. The current programs work, if and only if the red tape can be cut... Unfortunatly that will probably never happen

Jeff...

It getting old for you to accuse everyone else of using moral relativism when that is almost all you do when you try to deconstruct the arguments of others. First, to say that government's hand in private enterprise produces "abysmal results" is to imply that the cost of human beings lives and health can be quantified by dollars and cents. I'm sure you'd never allow anyone to make such an analogy to you or anyone you love, would you? So the money spent on Medicaid is wasted in your opinion, or can the private sector deliver the same care for less money?

I have never seen the issue of universal healthcare discussed without complete acknowledgement that our current system is inefficient, overcostly, over bureaucratized, and favors catastrophic care over cheaper preventative care. Also, no one has ever proposed a system that didn't incorporate both public and private conerns together in trying to find palatable solutions.

To highlight the FACT that access to preventative healthcare services is one of the worst in the industrialized world is not the exploitation of this tragedy. Its the acknowledgement by caring people that we do not wish for this to happen again to someone else's child because our government was too afraid to tackle and fix the problem the way Americans always rise to conquer their challenges. And to ignore the economic ramifications that our broken system places upon our industries is just as "absymal" as is our ability to compete in the global marketplace because of the added costs healthcare places upon our exports.

There isn't a moral nor ethical reason for denying the system we have doesn't work for far too many Americans, and that the costs borne across our society are far too high in relation to similar care in other western nations. While I am not saying that government can or should provide the ultimate answer, it is both their job and their purview to lead the way in seeking a solution so that stories like this never need to be printed in the richest nation on the planet.

The right have NO moral or ethical ground to stand on here,

Sure we do.

Yep, a real educational answer here folks! Clearly shows us how they have solid ground to stand on.........."SURE WE DO!!!!!!

With every single one of his answers the rhetoric is identical, no substance just pandering rhetoric.

Now don't get me wrong, I like Jeff J. and generally think he is quite smart, but the same push of rhetoric with no substance is getting quite old.

Healthcare staying private is stupid beyond intellect, and nothing for such support is ever posted to keep that stupidity in work.

Either support your position with reasons why universal healthcare is a bad idea or look foolish.

I have done so at length on countless other occasions.

I am short on time today and am not in a position to lay out the arguments over and over again, each and every time this subject comes up.


Yep, a real educational answer here folks! Clearly shows us how they have solid ground to stand on.........."SURE WE DO!!!!!!

With every single one of his answers the rhetoric is identical, no substance just pandering rhetoric.

Classic self-retorting retort!

Your 'eduactional assertion':

The right have NO moral or ethical ground to stand on here,


That insipid statement wasn't even deserving of "Sure we do". You should be thanking me for even devoting that much time to responding to it.

The War In Iraq Costs

$404,245,233,643

Instead, we could have insured
242,063,014
children for one year.

Tony,

First, to say that government's hand in private enterprise produces "abysmal results" is to imply that the cost of human beings lives and health can be quantified by dollars and cents.

I was speaking with greater specificity than what you construed.

I have got to go and I have to be back to work at 8 PM tonight.


If this thread is gone the next time I make it back to DR, I will email you what I am specifically referring to, Tony.

Apparently you have not read all of my posts or your are a complete and total moron... Im going to assume the first. Read my posts it will answer most of your questions...

I read it...you're sad the kid died. Mom is partly to blame. Rant about nothing that has to do with anything except "the principal" of you ranting. You still pay 250k instead of 80 dollars. The End.

bullshit. If they are pulled then it is dental...not medial. IN any case, if they are cut out then it is major medical.....and a dentist doesn't do that....an oral surgeon does.

got anything else to insult me with?

Posted by eberly at 2007-02-28 05:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well smart guy, my dentist just surgically removed my daughters wisdom teeth in the dentist office and guess what, my medical blue shield paid for it.

Not surgeon, dentist and all went well. Some times you just don't know when to stop. Maybe you should find a new dentist if he has to send you to a surgeon. They are doctors too you know!

I would rather you just say, "Wow! I learned something new!" Instead of trying to argue a point you obviously have little knowledge about.

Why not be like the rest of the Righties here and just ignore information you don't agree with, it suits ya better!

My biggest fear about universal health care isn't that the govt will administrate it poorly and wastefully.

They will. Not to extent that some might think but, again, not my biggest fear.

It is the reality that so many Americans (way too many) claim to value their health care but they DON'T value their health.

Well smart guy, my dentist just surgically removed my daughters wisdom teeth in the dentist office and guess what, my medical blue shield paid for it.

You'll make up any lie you can think of won't you Crass?

That is sad.

just ignore information you don't agree with, it suits ya better!

Posted by moneywar


self retorting retort!!

Not surgeon, dentist and all went well. Some times you just don't know when to stop. Maybe you should find a new dentist if he has to send you to a surgeon. They are doctors too you know!

You actually made my point for me Crass. Dental insurance didn't cover a surgical procedure...which was my point.

Furthmore, oral surgeons are not MDs.....they are dentists with a speciality.

Chiropractors consider themselves "doctors" also but that doesn't make them an MD.

The War In Iraq Costs

$404,248,000,741

Instead, we could have insured
242,064,671
children for one year.

"You'll make up any lie"

I had a medical policy that did cover wisdom teeth. Unfortunately I paid to have one extracted and then found out later.

So am I a liar too eberly?

This is a heartbreaking story.

Mike,

Wisdom teeth are covered under a dental policy only if they are pulled. If they are cut out (surgically) then they are covered under medical.

I don't know that you are lying. Crass isn't really lying either but rather just confused.

I called Crass a liar because he is an asshole who can't not insult everyone he debates with.

JeffJ-
re:
This is classic!


This woman has a kid who has a toothache and she doesn't do shit about it.

This is a classic example of why one should read (not skim) an article before posting on it.

Eberly,

The only one I insult is you, why because you equally insult me! Imagine that!

As for the dental, paid for just part of the removal, the other part was paid by health insurance.

It is plain, if it becomes a medical issue but the dentist still handles the care it is health insurance.

I know not all policies are like this but mine are. My last policy was not, but with research and reading instead of signing on the line one can figure these things out.

Furthmore, oral surgeons are not MDs.....they are dentists with a speciality.

I did not say oral surgeons are MDs, I see you take opposition without ever understanding what I posted.

Dentist are great people, now I will wait for you to take the opposit stand just because I said it!

Donner,

These are facts and data you post which will be diligently avoided at all cost by the RNC supporting hacks of low value.

All the information is available in endless means but some reason the RNC supporting profit rightfundies will not read or acknowledge such data because it just doesn't jive with their rhetorical notion of how they have been lead.

They would rather follow false ideals with no validity to actual facts. This is how our nation really got messed up!

What a sad story. The fact that we have children dying in this country due to lack of health care is disheartening.

Posted by taxman


Same story in denmark and all the other Socialist countries.

It's difficult to get into the dentist in these countries.

This woman has a kid who has a toothache and she doesn't do shit about it.

This is a classic example of why one should read (not skim) an article before posting on it.

Posted by Boyd


I read the article and that's what I got out of it.

Medicaid is at the State level. Every state has their own caps on it.

The only one I insult is you

Posted by monewar

Really?

here is just a small sample in the last 24 hours of how you only insult me.......


This truely shows how IGNORANT you really are.


My God man, are you really this stupid!

You are one ignorant schmuck

Copy and paste the article, how stupid are you?

What a lying putz!


you're one very sad person!

Get educated because you really sound ignorant here!

All of Congress and all members of the president's administration should lose all health care benefits and be allowed only those that are provided to all other Americans. Then they should get exactly what we get, nothing more nothing less. It should also apply to pensions and pay raises.

Posted by danni


Danni,
Take a look at Arnold's health care plan for California. It guarentees coverage for every resident of the state.

Last-
re: 'This woman has a kid who has a toothache and she doesn't do shit about it.'

From the article:

When Deamonte got sick, his mother had not realized that his tooth had been bothering him. Instead, she was focusing on his younger brother, 10-year-old DaShawn, who "complains about his teeth all the time," she said....

Norris and her staff also ran into barriers: They said they made more than two dozen calls before reaching an official at the Driver family's Medicaid provider and a state supervising nurse who helped them find a dentist.
On Oct. 5, DaShawn saw Arthur Fridley, who cleaned the boy's teeth, took an X-ray and referred him to an oral surgeon. But the surgeon could not see him until Nov. 21, and that would be only for a consultation. Driver said she learned that DaShawn would need six teeth extracted and made an appointment for the earliest date available: Jan. 16.

But she had to cancel after learning Jan. 8 that the children had lost their Medicaid coverage a month earlier. She suspects that the paperwork to confirm their eligibility was mailed to the shelter in Adelphi, where they no longer live.

It was on Jan. 11 that Deamonte came home from school complaining of a headache. At Southern Maryland Hospital Center, his mother said, he got medicine for a headache, sinusitis and a dental abscess. But the next day, he was much sicker.

Eventually, he was rushed to Children's Hospital, where he underwent emergency brain surgery. He began to have seizures and had a second operation. The problem tooth was extracted....

whatever, Last.

Crass,

Just keep insulting anybody you disagree with. It is your style. I read through your posts and it only took a few seconds to gather up that small sample of insults you threw at numerous people.

Also, I read the substance of what you posted (very little) and you only disagree with ideology. YOu can't prove a fucking thing....it is never anymore than your ideology versus someone else's.

You need to be reminded that you are nothing but an envious, class warfare loving, conservative hating, bitter person who is obsessed with the RNC. You assign anybody who you disagree with as an RNC supporter. You have no substantiation for this....except for your rage.

Last:
Mail

Eberly,

Typical, nothing in context and only used to try in some stupid way discredit the validity of the posts.

Eberly, since you are so high and might, that IS YOUR NAME WHEN POSTING ISN'T IT!!!!!

Figure that out, but don't think you are capable!

Donner,

Good point, Donner.

But, children do have insurance through Medicaid.

Medicaid/Medicare itself is in serious trouble. There's money, but noone willing to do the paperwork. I know. I do medicare/medicaid billing. It is pure hell to file for an $80 claim.

Most medical professionals don't want to take the patients.

So much for your Socialized medicine.

Wouldn't it be smarter to use the already established Insurance Industry to solve this problem?

Someone just has to have the balls to do it.

Figure what out? that you can't use a question mark when writing a question?????

You lie when you assert you don't insult anybody but me because the fact is that you aren't capable of NOT insulting anybody you don't agree with. It is way above you.

When shown what a liar you are you still deny it.

Last-
re: 'This woman has a kid who has a toothache and she doesn't do shit about it.'

Boyd,

Shame on you!

I didn't say that.

However, She should be investigated for child abuse.

Typical, nothing in context and only used to try in some stupid way discredit the validity of the posts.

Translation...if I think you are wrong then I get to insult you and then assert that I didn't.

-Crasswar

Eberly, I've been catching a theme you've been putting out here and I agree 100 percent with you.

Prevention is key. Living healthy is key. The problem is multi-layered as to why this is difficult.

First, people have to stop eating like shit. Problem is, fast-food people spend an awful lot of money marketing their crap, and statisically, a greater percentage of lower income/impoverished familes eat this junk. It's ingrained in their culture. That's a powerful thing to overcome, and there's a lot of money at stake -- those corporations aren't going to roll over; they adapt like cockroaches. Just look at how McDonald's is trying to spin its unhealthy garbage as of late. Kudos to Prince Charles who suggested banning McDonalds as a solution to help make people healthier.

I tend to agree with Boyd's sentiments, though. If that were my kid, I would do whatever it took to get the money. Christ, this tragedy seems like a case when adults become engrossed in their own issues that they simply don't pay attention to what's going on with their kids.

Eberly,

It is not an idealogical problem, it is a reasoning problem.

I have no problem with the actual ideals, it is how they believe in those ideals, did they sound good or are they supported by facts and data.

everything posted so far as to not having universal health care is idealogical with no supporting data on why their ideal should be even heard!

See several posts though as to the amount of people who lack healthcare and the costs of the current system but lets not let this side of the idealogical issue get in the way of the "I said the government will get larger so it is way way bad!" idea.

Part of the problem is most people believe in the enterprise system so it allow the posting of rational ideals without validation. It is the RNC mantra!

Eberly, I've been catching a theme you've been putting out here and I agree 100 percent with you

Thanks Eva. I agree with Boyd's sentiments also. I just think American's are so full of themselves.....they expect first class everything when they don't really value it. Healthcare is a perfect example.

Last-
Shame on you.

re: Jeff J: This woman has a kid who has a toothache and she doesn't do shit about it.

me: This is a classic example of why one should read (not skim) an article before posting on it.

Posted by Boyd


you: I read the article and that's what I got out of it.

They said they made more than two dozen calls before reaching an official at the Driver family's Medicaid provider and a state supervising nurse who helped them find a dentist.

Boyd,

What does this have to do with Republicans? Medicaid is socialized medicine and is in horrible shape right now. The is a nightmare created by Democrats!

There is plenty of money to handle payments, but


Boyd, I know this because I am involved in the Medicare/Medicaid billing. It's a nightmare that has been in degradation for decades.

Blaming it on Republicans is counter productive, especially when they have THE solution.

Yes, It is clearly the Mothers' fault but the thread has moved beyond the issue of who to lay blame.

If we lay blame and that is the end of the issue, nothing would get fixed!!!!!

The outer circumstances of the entire issue here is being debated on the most part.

you: I read the article and that's what I got out of it.

Posted by Boyd


These are my words. Be careful next time.

Last-
1. I never specifically blamed "Republicans"

2. Here is your post with which I took issue (in it's entirety):

This woman has a kid who has a toothache and she doesn't do shit about it. [Jeff J.]

This is a classic example of why one should read (not skim) an article before posting on it.[me]

Posted by Boyd


I read the article and that's what I got out of it. [you]

Medicaid is at the State level. Every state has their own caps on it.

Posted by LastAmerican at 2007-02-28 07:01 PM | Reply

I have no problem with the actual ideals

yes you do. I understand about rhetoric without anything to back it up....and I agree with you.

However, you can't just discard the argument regarding... "our govt can't get larger....that is bad" as being without facts and reason.

We are 100% neck deep in that reality today. I'll pose a question to all DR posters to "substantiate" my point.....how many of you are glad that we have expanded our govt in the last 6 years???

that answer would be ZERO. How can you say that folks who are against universal health care because of the size of govt are wrong to have those ideals????

who are you to judge them?? You can make arguments to the contrary but don't insult them like they are just some idiot who listens to Rush all day and believes everything they hear. That is wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

This is at the foundation of my issue with you. You yourself are furious at the size and control of govt......and at the control of govt by corporations. Increasing the size of govt would suit you......how? Because it would address health care for all Americans? I can guarantee you that it will come at a cost you won't be happy with.....I'm talking about more corporate control of govt.

Arguments against larger govt are not something you should just discard as being wrong.

Last-
Your more recent post:
you: I read the article and that's what I got out of it.

Posted by Boyd


These are my words. Be careful next time.

Posted by LastAmerican at 2007-02-28 07:31 PM | Reply

And what you got out of it was:

This woman has a kid who has a toothache and she doesn't do shit about it.



You were quite clear, so either back away from it, or quit whining when your statements are used against you.

Eberly,

Simply saying expansion of government is bad is such a misnomer.

The FAA
The FDA
The EPA

Etc..... have all been expanded for good reason and have served the public masses with greatness.

Expansion of government for the betterment of public good cannot in anyway be construed as a bad thing. You benefit from such expansion everyday.

The police
The fire

but if the expansion increases in an area YOU don't utilize than by god it must be bad!!!!

This is at the foundation of my issue with you. You yourself are furious at the size and control of govt......and at the control of govt by corporations. Increasing the size of govt would suit you......how? Because it would address health care for all Americans? I can guarantee you that it will come at a cost you won't be happy with.....I'm talking about more corporate control of govt.

Yes, I am angry with how our government spends and utilizes our funds. I am also angry with the people who sit on party lines accepting the idiocy of spending ideals without condemnation of their party.

The last 6 years is a RNC nightmare and it is not I who is defending such stupidity! I once was a Republican, and was proud of it.

Our support is and should be for the betterment of this nation, the masses of the people. Instead it has turned to the betterment of the few while ridiculing and character bashing the majority of the people.

If standing on an ideal, support it, I do.

I get ridiculed for it all the time, why, because it is so very difficult to rationalize ones ideals when it clearly is not supported by facts and data.

You who seem to be on your way through the ladder of success and maybe even management should know decisions for success should be support by facts and data.

Universal healthcare is not an ideal, it is a necessity and in this it is up to us the voters to make sure it is set up and properly utilized.

Washing our hands from these tough issues will only cost this country more and degrade our future generations.

but if the expansion increases in an area YOU don't utilize than by god it must be bad!!!!

Posted by moneywar

LOL But, but, That's different That is necessary government.

Eberly,

Your last post was a great post, although in my opinion it was slightly flawed it grasped at the opposing issue.

Want my respect, earn it like this post.

Sorry if this comes across as condescending it is not done purposely.

but if the expansion increases in an area YOU don't utilize than by god it must be bad!!!!

Those who support Corporate subsidies could direct that same comment toward you.


If standing on an ideal, support it, I do. - Yoda


Universal healthcare is not an ideal, it is a necessity...

That is YOUR opinion. My opinion is that it would be a debacle on multiple levels.

I'll bet the woman had at least one TV that cost more than $80, and probably a cable TV subscription, a DVD player, a stereo and all sorts of other unnecessary shit she "found" the money for. She couldn't scrounge $80 to fix the kid's tooth, though, or apparently .99 cents to buy toothbrushes, either. She should be sterilized and put in jail.

That is YOUR opinion. My opinion is that it would be a debacle on multiple levels.

And here we sit with our head in the sand throwing out opinion statements while those multitude of people continue to grow without healthcare!

You are not hurt so you can keep this mantra up!

Those who support Corporate subsidies could direct that same comment toward you.

I could by far support the reason for corporate subsidies than any RNC supporter I have seen on this blog. The posters who support the RNC mantra post ignorance and should be ashamed.

Corporate subsidies are a necessary evil but with rational educational goals set for those corporations demanding they do what they say they will do. (Even though this is contrary to the Free Trade ideals of rational the RNC keep pandering)

Walmart received 1.2 billion last year in subsidies and yet in almost every state they occupy they are the leading cost in medicaid expense for their employees. I call this a gross negligence of those subsidies. But get some of these RNC rightfundies to admit this is like pigs flying out their arse!

If we lay blame and that is the end of the issue, nothing would get fixed!!!!!

I've been talking about a solution.

Paying for healthcare with war money doesn't solve the problem.

The problem is that Medicare/Medicaid is a nightmare.

The solution is for each State to require that Insurance companies wanting to write policies in that state must be required to offer everyone in the state a policy. Noone can be denied.

If someone can't pay for it, Medicaid pays the premium.

Pray-
You seem to know all about her, asshole.

Not only that, but you've even sentenced her:

She should be sterilized and put in jail.

Based on......?

Walmart received 1.2 billion last year in subsidies and yet in almost every state they occupy they are the leading cost in medicaid expense for their employees. I call this a gross negligence of those subsidies. But get some of these RNC rightfundies to admit this is like pigs flying out their arse!

I completely agree!!!

Wal-mart is abusing the system.

"I completely agree!!! Wal-mart is abusing the system. "

I completely disagree. The authors of the legislation allowing Wal-Mart to do what it's legally doing are abusing the system; WM's just playing with the rules they're given.

"The solution is for each State to require that Insurance companies wanting to write policies in that state must be required to offer everyone in the state a policy. Noone can be denied. "

Excellent idea.

Danforth,

nice post!

Why is it only a few here get it?

LastAmerican,

The solution is for each State to require that Insurance companies wanting to write policies in that state must be required to offer everyone in the state a policy. Noone can be denied.

If someone can't pay for it, Medicaid pays the premium.

You have finally made a post worthy of respect!

Nicely done!

"My opinion is that (Universal Health Care) would be a debacle on multiple levels."
Posted by JeffJ

Get used to it. It's coming, if for no other reason than we're eventually not going to be able to afford anything else as a society, as the confluence of aging baby boomers and medical inflation outpacing earnings growth will ultimately overwhelm us.

Medicare is a tsunami coming at us; we can see it out there. The big question: will our leaders actually "lead" before the day of reckoning, or are they all hoping to be long gone before the hard choices must be made?

"Pray-
You seem to know all about her, (handsome)."

Yes, Boyd, I really do. I also think her baby's daddy should be sterilized and put in jail.
I think anyone that causes harm to a child through negligence or stupidity should be sterilized and incarcerated. I think people that willfully harm children should be executed.

And your problem with that is?

"Why is it only a few here get it?"
Posted by moneywar

Probably for the same reason only a few here pay off their credit card balance every month.

Probably for the same reason only a few here pay off their credit card balance every month.

LOL!!!!!

Pray-
My problem is that you don't know what you're talking about, but are merely projecting your prejudices upon this family.

(re: I'll bet the woman had at least one TV that cost more than $80, and probably a cable TV subscription, a DVD player, a stereo and all sorts of other unnecessary shit she "found" the money for. She couldn't scrounge $80 to fix the kid's tooth, though, or apparently .99 cents to buy toothbrushes, either. She should be sterilized and put in jail.)

Pray-
re: Yes, Boyd, I really do [know all about her].

Really? You KNOW that "the woman had at least one TV that cost more than $80, and probably a cable TV subscription, a DVD player, a stereo and all sorts of other unnecessary shit she "found" the money for. She couldn't scrounge $80 to fix the kid's tooth, though, or apparently .99 cents to buy toothbrushes, either. She should be sterilized and put in jail."

Interesting.

How do you know this? (And what happened to her expensive stuff -- that you KNOW she had-- when she was in the homeless shelter?)

I'll bet the woman had at least one TV that cost more than $80, and probably a cable TV subscription, a DVD player, a stereo and all sorts of other unnecessary shit she "found" the money for. She couldn't scrounge $80 to fix the kid's tooth, though, or apparently .99 cents to buy toothbrushes, either. She should be sterilized and put in jail.

Posted by pray4mojo

Yea, I'm sure she had that shit in her shopping cart as she made her way to the shelter.

Boyd & TFD:

Sorry, I went a little off the reservation there. I don't even believe in the death penalty or forced sterilization. I busted the ol' coconut and I'm still a little woozy - don't like seeing the kids die from the tooth decay, though.

Peace Out. -Mojo

I still don't understand how this turned into a thread about socialized medicine. The fact of the matter is that this woman was not willing to do what it takes to get her kid to the dentist. My guess is that if she had a free health plan courtesy of the government, she would have fucked it up somehow anyways and not given the kid a ride because the government should have given her a car.

"My guess is that if she had a free health plan courtesy of the government, she would have fucked it up somehow anyways and not given the kid a ride because the government should have given her a car."

Sad...but very, very true.

Dead-on observation, Joe.

Mojo-
re: "I don't even believe in the death penalty or forced sterilization."

Isn't that sweet, and not even a few hours after you'd recommended just that sentence for people you've never met, and know little about.

I'm feeling all warm and snuggly, are you?

"Peace Out", ????

Whatever. You'll be the same tomorrow.

Danforth-
re: My guess is that if she had a free health plan courtesy of the government, she would have fucked it up somehow anyways and not given the kid a ride because the government should have given her a car.

That's your guess, too? Maybe so. What of the shelter folks - who knew where to go and yet couldn't find adequate resources for a homeless woman and her children?

Yea Joe,

We should all just stay on the thread and bash this neglectful mother over and over, and over and over so the conversation remains stagnant.

We know she made horrible decision topic over! Sad but over, only you could remain for a good day bashing and bashing.

Socialized Medicine -vs- privatized Medicine

Really have to Wonder which is going to win with all the information out in the world.

"We should all just stay on the thread and bash this neglectful mother over and over, and over and over so the conversation remains stagnant."

There's nowhere for the conversation to go. It's done after that idea is expressed. I think she made some poor decisions. You think the government should have done everything for her. The problem is that after you give people like her a free health plan, their kids will still be dying because sane people were too "selfish" to pay for a government van to come every year and pick up her kids to take them to the dentist.

All these tragedies happen because all these folks are just too lazy to care and would just rather sit back and let the government take care of the problem!

It is so nice to sit on the cloud looking down upon drastic mental decisions made by such economically woeful people. It keeps us in the clouds!!!!!!

This woman has a kid who has a toothache and she doesn't do shit about it.
You were quite clear, so either back away from it, or quit whining when your statements are used against you.

Posted by Boyd


Boyd, you made a mistake. Get over it already.

I read the article and the article plainly states that the mother did not care enough. That's what I got out of it. I would not be so crass as to say she didn't give a shit about her son. Although I know of cases where parents were investigated for child abuse.

Boyd, you're wrong and you don't know enough about the circumstances.

"All these tragedies happen because all these folks are just too lazy to care and would just rather sit back and let the government take care of the problem!"

Not bad.

What's your "real" explanation?

Boyd,

Your right. Anyway, there is no place for hyperbole on a story that is so sad. I will be the same tomorrow: Conflicted.

Peace Out (whatever that means)

Boyd,

My only point is you could offer $100,000 to every man woman and child who would "sign up", and you still wouldn't have 100% participation. To concentrate only on those who will fall through the cracks, regardless of what is done or offered, is to miss the larger picture: is the system working for the other 99.999 percent? I don't know if it is or not, but I have to agree with Joe: my bet is the fault lies not with the system, but with the parent.

Or as you point out, those around them who failed in their support...but I have a real problem expecting the support personnel to pre-diagnose every negative outcome, or be blamed for not being omniscient.

Shit SHe was taking care of Her other Son's 6 Rotted teeth and didn't get to the other Kids on Time Probably because of money situations. It's very easy to say She was an unfit Parent until You are the one trying to scrape by on a Meager Wage or if She was UnEmployed You know. Damned Medicaid.

Larry

Joe,

Although there is strong rationale for your depiction of such poor decisions, it is spiteful without any support what so ever.

Any individual, put under very strained economic harsh conditions tend to make very poor decisions. The hopeless feeling of dispair and lack of control do horrible things to ones mental thought patterns.

The movie "Trading Places" hits home quite nicely. Although we laugh at the humorous satire, it shows subconsciously we all believe the decisions being made can be ill rational when face with overwhelming economic tragedy.

"Any individual, put under very strained economic harsh conditions tend to make very poor decisions. The hopeless feeling of dispair and lack of control do horrible things to ones mental thought patterns."

I agree. Many people are able to dig themselves out of such situations without the help of the government. My guess, however, is that those are the same people who would have done what it took to get their kid to the dentist regardless.

I just don't see why so many people's responses to stories like these are:

"The government should have __________________."

The government is not responsible for taking your child to the dentist. End of story.

Danforth-
Read the article, and then state that that's how it should work. Your statement that "My only point is you could offer $100,000 to every man woman and child who would "sign up", and you still wouldn't have 100% participation." is most probably the most asinine comment I've read on this thread. In part because it has nothing to do with the actual case, but mostly because you should know better.

I would, however, agree that that's your only point.

Joe,

I agree, it is not the fault of the government, but the difficulty behind this issue is if there was available healthcare would this mother have made a more rational decision.

I say yes, this would have been prevented, regardless of how ill rational the mother makes her decisions.

MoneyWar,
The system is broke

But let's look at what's good and throw out the bad.

Health Professionals. They're all good. We'll keep them.

Medicaid. GONE. But we'll keep the money to buy health insurance for the needy.

Insurance Companies/
Managed Care Providers/
Hospital Administrators. Keep most of them. But regulate the costs.

Simply move the paperwork of claims from Medicaid/Medicare to the insurance companies. Insurance companies are going to do it much better because they want to make a profit.

Joe-
The kid is dead. Read the fuckin' article. The gov't is not responsible for taking the kid to the dentist, but if we can't provide simple medical care to children whose parents are (maybe through their own fault...don't really know..) in homeless shelters and living on the fringe, then what does that say about us.

Moreover, what does it say about you? (as you not only do not claim that it's a shame, but presume to judge the most helpless by your insipid and privileged standards)

Go Jesus!!!

Mojo-I appreciate the retraction.

And if this woman is such a horrible mother, isn't that even more reason for it to be as easy as possible for her to care for her son. So the innocent don't suffer for the guilty.

The Pubs are always saying that their the "real world" party. You know what, in the real world, especially the modern, super complicated world, not everyone has the capabilities that it takes to be successful or even survive. Do we just let them die as happened in the past, or do we show the power and compassion of a united people to do what we can to help them?

God I hate when I do that

Not "their the..." but "they're the..."

I agree. Many people are able to dig themselves out of such situations without the help of the government. My guess, however, is that those are the same people who would have done what it took to get their kid to the dentist regardless.

Hence, why the government has standards that appear to be wasteful. The standards are not there for those who would do anything to get their kid the proper care, the standard is there to protect the kid from those who don't!

" the difficulty behind this issue is if there was available healthcare would this mother have made a more rational decision."

Says who? Did she bring the kid to the dentist and get turned down for not having coverage? Or did she just not go?

Moreover, what does it say about you? (as you not only do not claim that it's a shame, but presume to judge the most helpless by your insipid and privileged standards)

Go Jesus!!!

Posted by Boyd


That cuts deep and you are way too sensitive.

you are blaming the government. Who's accountable for this. Can you name someone?

The solution is for each State to require that Insurance companies wanting to write policies in that state must be required to offer everyone in the state a policy. Noone can be denied.

If someone can't pay for it, Medicaid pays the premium.

Posted by lastAmerican

And I am among those ready to pitch snowballs in Hades as Last has made an illtelligent, thought provoking, on topic post.

LastAmerican,

Cost regulation is the issue, I believe it should be done with all governmental contracts.

How the regulation is controlled is the real issue.

Boyd-

" The kid is dead. Read the fuckin' article."

I did read the article. I know the kid is dead. What from my post made you think I didn't? I am the only one addressing what happened in the article, while everyone else sits around whining about how the mother didn't get dental insurance handed to her. That is not the only thing that prevented the child from being treated. Did she bring him to the dentist and get turned down?

"Moreover, what does it say about you? (as you not only do not claim that it's a shame, but presume to judge the most helpless by your insipid and privileged standards)"

You're judging her too. You're just making positive judgments about her and assuming that she did everything she could. You're still judging "the most helpless by your insipid and privileged standards." Or is it only wrong to judge people when you wind up saying they could have done better?

Go Jesus!!!

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

Moneywar-

I agree with your 10:26 wholeheartedly. If we are going to have government programs, they might as well be thorough for those that need them and removed for those that don't. Thorough standards are the key to any efficient and helpful government service, unfortunately we are lacking in that department.

How the regulation is controlled is the real issue.

Posted by moneywar


Insurance companies and Managed Care Providers are already regulating costs.

All that has to happen is for the State, who already regulates the industry just adds rules to it.

A rule, for example, all health insurance companies doing business in Colorado are required to write Policy A for anyone who doesn't have health insurance. The premiums are paid by Medicaid.

Is that it?

Oh, no! I'm just getting started!

I believe our Corporations have a feduciary duty for the health of our nation. They are complaining about the competition with those nations who could careless about the health of their nations and so exact the same practice of defeating purpose.

Our Corporations are not all to blame, our policies created for their nafarious competition is though.

If the corporations showed the same neglect of their machines toward production as they do with the people they would not survive. It is funny the people become the sacrifice.

The solution is for each State to require that Insurance companies wanting to write policies in that state must be required to offer everyone in the state a policy. Noone can be denied.

If someone can't pay for it, Medicaid pays the premium.

Posted by lastAmerican

And I am among those ready to pitch snowballs in Hades as Last has made an illtelligent, thought provoking, on topic post.

Posted by TFDNihilist


Except that it doesn't really address the issue. there are plenty of health insurance companies to write policies........are you going to suggest they lose money on them? Which is to say that you are going to tell them what to charge?

good luck with that.

Joe-
It should cut deep.

I'm not blaming the abstarct entity you refer to as the gov't; I'm blaming you for your callous and even inhuman statements.

A rule, for example, all health insurance companies doing business in Colorado are required to write Policy A for anyone who doesn't have health insurance. The premiums are paid by Medicaid.

Is the state going to tell them what premium to charge?

We already have a "pool" like that here in Kansas. It is priced so high it is impossible for most people to afford.

Moneywar = Crassus?

good luck with that.

Who is the supposed negative neh sayer now?!!!!!

This is a great idea of bringing private and socialized healthcare to the table with minimal government.

Do the energy companies make profits? They are regulated by government for good purpose, although it does appear the profits have reached epic proportions.

Expansion of government for the betterment of public good cannot in anyway be construed as a bad thing. You benefit from such expansion everyday.

The police
The fire

No argument here. I've always believed that.

Joe-
"You're judging her too."

No. I'm assuming that since she was a single mom in a freakin' homeless shelter that perhaps she might need some help.

As opposed to you, who chose to turn the death of her child into an ideological springboard ("The government is not responsible for taking your child to the dentist. End of story.")

Go Jesus!!!

Boyd-

When did I ever indicate I was a Christian?

Nothing you're saying cuts deep. You're about as dull as C-SPAN.

Who is the supposed negative neh sayer now?!!!!!

Allow me to phrase this another way. If a person is very unhealthy (trust me....they are everywhere) then my insurance company can bill medicaid $2,000/mo for one single person (no shit)?

Lets try to remember 2 simple rules. 1. None of this makes sick people healthy. 2. Insurance companies are't going to insure a building currently on fire.

I'm not trying to be a "naysayer". Just pointing out a market reality.

Joe-
re: When did I ever indicate I was a Christian?

I can't think of when, but certainly not on this thread.

Moneywar = Crassus?

What tipped you off?

Except that it doesn't really address the issue. there are plenty of health insurance companies to write policies........are you going to suggest they lose money on them? Which is to say that you are going to tell them what to charge?

good luck with that.

Posted by eberly


Didn't say that at all.

then what's your solution? Government providing healthcare? The article plainly states that government is not the answer here.

Insurance companies already know the cost of healthcare. It's far less than what Medicare costs. Insurance companies have to make a profit, Medicare does not. So Medicare's administration costs are much higher and unworkable. Let's talk about fraud. The fraud in Medicare/Medicaid is uncontrollable.

Nothing you're saying cuts deep. You're about as dull as C-SPAN.

What tipped you off?

Eberly,

So we correct that problem by utilizing all the governmental agencies already in place.

TFD:

I'm not a "Pub," but I get your point. The thing is, I have been reading these posts long before I ever signed up to participate in the discussion threads, and hyperbole and sarcasm seemed to be the rule rather than the exception. I will have to bring it down a notch or two. Having said that, I think parents do bear the lion's share of the burden in these situations. I also agree with you that if a parent cannot take proper care of a child then the authorities need to step in. The rub is: Where does that begin? Should the kids be taken away at some point in these situations? Should there be a "red flag" at a shelter, clinic, or welfare service when certain obvious medical problems are noted and physicians are then mandated to treat the ailment as a condition of licensing by a state medical board? Universal healthcare? I don't know... I live in an extemely depressed community and there are plenty of free clinics that do good work, both through the county government and private clinics that some local physicians volunteer for. SOMETHING needs to happen. Maybe basic dental care can be set up through local school districts. There is still something unsettling about this story that isn't out there, yet.

The whole thing about the TV and so on comes from something I saw on the news a while back about how poverty is defined in the US vs other nations - that those who live below the poverty thresh-hold in the US tend to have enough disposable income to at least afford "non-essential" items like TVs and such. I was taking that thought to the nth degree in my hyperbolic reaction. I shouldn't have done that.

RE: Peace Out - Isn't that what the kids are saying nowadays?

Boyd-

"chose to turn the death of her child into an ideological springboard"

Is that what you'd call the following?

"the Republicans are the ones who have fought Medicaid tooth and nail"

"Half a Trillion for a vanity war in Iraq"

"Basically, it's up to the American people to decide if we want Universal Health Care."

"If only this had been a white kid, then maybe people would feel differently."

"The War in Iraq...Instead, we could have insured 242,055,833 children for one year."

"Congrats Republicans. You could care so little about your fellow man you got one of them killed."


Now that's what I call ideological springboarding. Where were you all day? You could have kept these "callous and inhuman" posters at bay.

I'm simply responding to the springboarders who think the answer to issues like this is to create government healthcare. Sorry you have a problem with that.

Boyd-

" I can't think of when, but certainly not on this thread."

Certainly not on any thread. Sorry you couldn't play that card.

Maybe try the "you listen to Rush Limbaugh" one.

Joe-
When you'd like to reply to my comments, please let me know.

A rule, for example, all health insurance companies doing business in Colorado are required to write Policy A for anyone who doesn't have health insurance. The premiums are paid by Medicaid.

Is the state going to tell them what premium to charge?

Posted by eberly


I didn't say that.

I see where you're troubled. You're thinking of the uninsurable. I'm talking about the uninsured.

The uninsured are people without insurance because they have to pay a monthly premium, not becuase it's too high and they are unhealthy, but becuase they simply can't afford it.

These are the children who are healthy but don't have insurance.

Medicaid would easily be able to pay the premiums on these kids and save money.

then what's your solution? Government providing healthcare? The article plainly states that government is not the answer here.

to be perfectly honest....I don't have a solution. I am totally stumped on what to do. I completely this is a horrible problem and it needs addressing. I like the idea that some other countries are seemingly implementing universal health care successfully but do we really know the whole story? I don't know.

Again, I think regardless of whatever we do here we have to remember how selfish we are as a country. Everybody wants everything RIGHT NOW!!! And they want the best. some huge sacrifices are going to have to happen in order for this to happen. americans are very unhealthy and they don't give a shit. I have reservations about providing healthcare to a bunch of people who don't give a shit.

Mao,

How is the kid? Should now be getting to a point of understanding small jokes.

Why did Mrs. Tomato blush?

She saw Mr. Green pea!

My kids loved this.

Joe-
Although your posts of quotes at 10:55 contained none of mine, your post at 10:57 did , so allow me a response:

Are you a Christian; Are you a follower of Christ?

" When you'd like to reply to my comments, please let me know."

Oh, you mean the ones where you wrongly accuse me of being a Christian?

Or the ones where you accuse me of ideological springboarding when 230 others have done so prior to me, and I'm simply responding to their comments?

Which ones Boyd?

Oh, that's right, you think you aren't making judgments because you assume there was nothing more the woman could have done. You're completely right Boyd, that's not a judgment at all. It's only a judgment (or at least a despicable one) when you think someone could have done better.

Wake me up when you leave.

You're thinking of the uninsurable. I'm talking about the uninsured.


I understand and those aren't the same groups. I realize that many people who are uninsured are not necessarily uninsurable. In fact, I don't really know how healthy of a pool the uninsured really are.

Joe-
re: "I'm simply responding to the springboarders who think the answer to issues like this is to create government healthcare."

...and so you addressed it to me, who made none of the comments you quoted?

Joe-
I never "accused" you of "being a Christian", although I did just ask you if you were (or, rather, claimed to be one).

"your posts of quotes at 10:55 contained none of mine"

I never said they would. I was merely asking whether you planned on accusing all of those people of shameful "ideological springboarding." Or is it only the springboarding that "leaps" to a conclusion you don't like that is shameful? Still awaiting your answer.

I headed to bed. I will say that whatever we do should be focued on children. Many states have programs for kids but parents need to qualify financially. I don't know how that really works. Our progam in Kansas (Healthwave) is designed for kids and parents have to sign them up annually. the feedback I get on this is pretty good but I don't claim to know a whole lot about it.

"I never "accused" you of "being a Christian"

Right.

You simply signed your posts "Go Jesus!" and said "it should cut deep."

What was the purpose of such a stupid exercise if not to suggest hypocritical Christianity?

I like the idea that some other countries are seemingly implementing universal health care successfully but do we really know the whole story?

Other countries have a much smaller population to deal with.

US has almost 300 million

Canada has 32 million

California has 38 million


California has a real good chance to solve the health care (cost) crisis for the entire country.

Check out Arnold's plan.

Let me help you out, Joe: I'm not ashamed of calling myself a Christian, although i'm so ashamed of most of those who prominently profess their love of Jesus that I rarely bring it up.

I understand and those aren't the same groups. I realize that many people who are uninsured are not necessarily uninsurable. In fact, I don't really know how healthy of a pool the uninsured really are.

Hmmmmm!!!!

Is the goal to provide healthcare to all or just those who are healthy?

Again, I think regardless of whatever we do here we have to remember how selfish we are as a country. Everybody wants everything RIGHT NOW!!! And they want the best. some huge sacrifices are going to have to happen in order for this to happen. americans are very unhealthy and they don't give a shit. I have reservations about providing healthcare to a bunch of people who don't give a shit.

Posted by eberly


You've just nailed it!

I feel the same way, but that is the price of democracy.

Joe-
It should cut deep, whether or not you claim Jesus as your savior. The mere knowledge of his example should shame anyone who so callously espouses your sentiments.

Other countries have a much smaller population to deal with.

Hmmm!!! Not the issue.

What is the ratio of GDP to healthcare?

Wow!! What a novel idea!

"I'm not ashamed of calling myself a Christian, although i'm so ashamed of most of those who prominently profess their love of Jesus that I rarely bring it up."


Zzzzzz. I'm not a Christian at all. You are the epitome of a thread-ruiner. Make a point and STFU already.

Off Topic: Hey EBerly Your Mayor Must suck royally. He got trounced Last night Woooooweeeeee.

Larry

Is the goal to provide healthcare to all or just those who are healthy?

Just white males under the age of 30 who don't smoke and who are not overweight:(


I'm just saying that if you are going to ask an insurance company to wrap their arms around it then they will want to know.

Later, Joe. I'm moving on.

Larry,

He did. I didn't expect that. I thought a lot of people liked him. guess not. He isn't out yet....Mayans and Brewer will face each other again.

Being mayor of Wichita is no big deal. Bob Knight was the mayor forever here. When he ran for governer......he didn't even win Sedgwick County!!!! He got his ass kicked huge. I don't get it. We vote for the guy year after year for mayor but not for governer.

thats okay...I like our governer anyway.

Good night.

I'm just saying that if you are going to ask an insurance company to wrap their arms around it then they will want to know.

It can be done just like the other government regulated private enterprises, give them a percentage after cost with regulations as to how the benefits are administered, just like power/sewer/garbage/etc......

Larry:
Mail. Too funny.

I like the idea that some other countries are seemingly implementing universal health care successfully but do we really know the whole story?

Other countries have a much smaller population to deal with.

US has almost 300 million

Canada has 32 million

California has 38 million


California has a real good chance to solve the health care (cost) crisis for the entire country.

Check out Arnold's plan.

LastAmerican, Canada administers health care on a provincial level not a federal level.The minimal standards are negotiated between the provinces and the federal government.the funding is split between provinces and the federal government, but the provinces pay about 75% of the cost.The provincial governments handle the billing.All doctors are independent contractors , but their fee's are negotiated by their medical association, much like a trade union.

If it were up to them we would deny health care to the poor just to kill them off.


Posted by taxman at 2007-02-28 03:45 PM | Reply

Just read the case of Sun Hudson where a hospital pulled his ventilator plug because his parents could not afford to pay for it.

That will show you George Bush's Compassionate Texas Laws.

Other countries have a much smaller population to deal with.

US has almost 300 million

Canada has 32 million

Posted by LastAmerican at 2007-02-28 11:09 PM | Reply

So what? By that logic they have fewer taxpayers also.

Whether you like it or not, some form of universal health care is coming. And knowing the idiots in washington it will be heavily tilted towards the corporations and provide the bare minimum while depleting the treasury.

They could do it correct. But they won't.

SORRY LIBS if you want to spend your tax dollars taking care of those that don't want to help themselves

We're talking about a child here. It must really suck to be you and be that bitter.

What bugs me is those who don't read the article, just post their filth...

Several of you have decided that she wouldn't have taken the child to the dentist because the government didn't give her a child...

JOE, the article states she was taking care of the brother who had SIX bad teeth...so apparently she was going to the dentist....

Some of you CONS are just disgusting...

And the racism is almost unbelievable...many of you miserable bastards have decided her race...My guess is the boys name...

But double shame on you....

I's the same old CON mantra....

"I've got mine you dumb son of a bitch, now you try and get yours"

No compassion, just mean and greed...the thread on todays teenages being to "self confident"....that comes out of the bullshit you CONS shovel...

Scarey,

It is possible to discuss these issues and not be called a "racist" or "miserable bastard" by someone?

Joe can stand up for himself just fine but this woman did a piss poor job that eventually lead to the tragic death of her child. I don't know a frigging thing about her race.

90% of the posts on this thread discusses remedies for the larger problem of health coverage.

Your last post is meaner than any other post I have read.

Cover everyone, turn the responsibitly to the employee ownership and control of health insurance, Allow private collectives to purchase group insurance. End health insurance mandates, Allow hospitals to turn away people with bumps and bruises, Allow nurse to diagnose simple colds and what not, make more drug available over the counter, tax free medical plans, Loser pays in malpractice lawsuits.

Scared_E:

"the article states she was taking care of the brother who had SIX bad teeth...so apparently she was going to the dentist...."

They never said she was taking him to the dentist. The article said "If his mother hadn't been focused on getting a dentist for his brother." That, to me, doesn't sound like she was taking anyone to the dentist.

From what I've seen in the thread, the only people talking about this woman's race are the lefties trying to use it as a tool to paint anyone who talks in a realistic manner as a racist. Have fun.

Other countries have a much smaller population to deal with.

Hmmm!!! Not the issue.

What is the ratio of GDP to healthcare?

Wow!! What a novel idea!

Posted by moneywar


Sorry I crapped out on you last night. I was too tired.

I think population is a huge issue. I think that each State should be able to come up with a plan to deal with the health care crisis.

Why is there a crisis?

Gaps is health insurance coverage amoung adults and Medicaid is a failure for getting coverage that kids need.

GDP vs Population has nothing to do with it. The money is there. The ability to maintain a socialist solution would be catestrophic!

The answer is to have each State solve this problem themselves.

Congress has to pass a simple law that states are required to provide insurance for every resident in their state within two years.

The problem is that a state like Massechusetts, Louisiana, and even California have solutions ready to implement. The only problem is that if you are the only state "giving away free health care," you get a rush of immigration into your state of the uninsured and the uninsurable.

The solution is for Congress to pass the law requiring states to do this, but States would be able to use Medicaid money. Medicaid would go away.

A federal health plan would be catestrophic. It would be like Medicaid only worse. Medicaid can't handle what they have now. People would have to pay out of pocket to get health care.

Just read the case of Sun Hudson where a hospital pulled his ventilator plug because his parents could not afford to pay for it.

That will show you George Bush's Compassionate Texas Laws.

Posted by JimmyWallback


I lived in Texas for a short time. Am I responsible for the law too?

Jimmy, this thread started out blaiming Republicans for this little boy's death. Throughout the thread, we find that the blame is a Social Program called Medicaid that was most of the problem. Medicaid has been screwed up since it started. It never worked as well as a private endeavor would have. You were the only idiot to mention GW on this thread. What does he have to do with this.

90% of the posts on this thread discusses remedies for the larger problem of health coverage.

Your last post is meaner than any other post I have read.

Posted by eberly


Eb,

Scarey posted the article because it appeared to be a slam on the Republicans. It turns out to be a slam on Medicaid, on Hilary's efforts for Universal Health Care and a slam on the potential effects of government taking care of the poor. We saw what can happen to a group of people who were taken care of the government for generations. We had the catastrophy after Katrina! And idiots said that Republicans were responsible. Republicans did not run the State of Louisiana for the last 60 years. It was the Democrats.

"(a slam) on Hilary's efforts for Universal Health Care..."

How on earth do you blame this on Hilary?

"We had the catastrophy(sic) after Katrina! And idiots said that Republicans were responsible."

With ultimate authority comes ultimate responsibility. George W. Bush had the ultimate authority, and last I looked, he's a Republican.

Republicans opposed Social Security
Republicans opposed Medicare
Republicans opposed Medicaid
Republicans opposed OSHA
Republicans opposed Clean Air/Clean Water
Republicans opposed most civil rights legislation

Republican oppose most legislation that doesn't put money into their pockets...and of course the ultra wealthy got huge pots of money

So don't tell me it's Hillary's fault...that is absurd beyond belief...


It's the mean spiritness of the Republican party and their mantra...

"I've got mine you dumb son of a bitch, now you try and get yours"

And now they are saying because of the slowdown in the economy that we need more tax cuts for the rich...Sam Brownback is suggesting a nice little check just like old Bush did...well it worked for Bush...he bought loyalty from the middle classes with a $300 check...

""Medicaid has been screwed up since it started. It never worked as well as a private endeavor would have.""

That is utter bull shit.

""It would be like Medicaid only worse. Medicaid can't handle what they have now.""

No it would be like Medicare not Medicaid. Medicare is one of the most efficient methods of distributing health care ever invented. Incredibly low administrative costs. Much lower than insurance companies and no profit for the companies either so it saves billions every year.

No it would be like Medicare not Medicaid. Medicare is one of the most efficient methods of distributing health care ever invented. Incredibly low administrative costs. Much lower than insurance companies and no profit for the companies either so it saves billions every year.-danni

that is the dumbest thing i have ever heard..

No it would be like Medicare not Medicaid. Medicare is one of the most efficient methods of distributing health care ever invented.

Danni, Believe me, I know. It's not efficient and it does not cover everything.

You know it to be true, but wont admit it.

In order for some fashion of Universal Health Care to work, it must be handled at the state level and conducted by the private sector. It would be a disater any other way.

just like Iraq & the coming war with Iran, LA?:>)

The War In Iraq Costs

$404,519,270,618

Instead, we could have insured
242,227,108
children for one year

The War In Iraq Costs

$404,519,270,618

Instead, we could have insured
242,227,108
children for one year

Posted by donnerboy


We have the money to do it. It's not getting done because Medicaid is not doing it.

just like Iraq & the coming war with Iran, LA?:>)

Posted by Bani


This statement makes no sense. Care to explain?

What money? We're in DEBT.

What money? We're in DEBT.

Posted by I_N_Cognito


Medicaid has plenty money, just practitioners don't want to take Medicaid. Cost them too much to do the processing.

seems you guys are playing ignorant; not reading the thread.

The one thing I have gleaned from this thread which I posted was how woefully ignorant some of the posters are about Medicare and Medicaid....the differences, the state's responsibility to and for Medicaid, etc...you might not even have Medicaid in your state ...in California it's Medi-Cal...

Each states take their meager federal funds from the federal government, and then they start with what is mandated and decide what they will add...some states do a barebones and some like California make a real big program out of it...

But it's obvious that most of the posters here don't have a clue about what Medicaid is...

Scarey,

You've just repeated back what we've been saying, only you left out the part about it not working.

There's plenty money in each State, the system is just broken

There's plenty money in each State

AHAHAHAHAHA

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Pro-active beats reactive any day.

Dental is medical!

267 posts fer a kid who died cos of a system in crisis?

Spud is 268

Good 'un Scarey!

Be Well.

It's always the same...Republicans underfund programs and when they don't run correctly they declare the program broken....

Just remember, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are all programs that Republicans opposed in their creation...

This country would look like the 1880s if Republicans had their way... rich land owners, and criminals working hand in hand to eliminate threats to their empires...

Come to think of it nothing much has changed...

It's always the same...Republicans underfund programs and when they don't run correctly they declare the program broken....


Can you show me a link where there is not enough money? Or is it that Medicaid is dying under it's own weight--too much paper work. The computer systems that are used in Medicare/Medicaid have not been updated since the eighties. There have been some modern user interfaces put on them, but the core systems are ancient.

In addition, it seems that Federal programs don't work as well as they should -- Education and Heath Care for example.