YEAH!

Hannity tells students to tape radical teachers in the hopes of exposing "liberal bias" but gets radical christo-fascist rants instead.

And what does the "Christian" radical right do then ---- threaten the child and his family with death threats!

So Jesusy of them!

Last fall, Matthew, 16, taped the teacher, David Paszkiewicz, telling students in a history class that if they do not believe that Jesus died for their sins, they "belong in hell." On the recordings, which Matthew made surreptitiously starting in September, Mr. Paszkiewicz is heard telling the class that there were dinosaurs aboard Noah's ark and that there is no scientific basis for evolution or the Big Bang theory of the origin of the universe.

Why is this being discussed in a history class in a public school?

I did that same stunt in my private school. The lunatic teacher had thrown a hissy fit over nothing. When she found my tape recorder, she sent me to the principal's office.

I have always hated that school ever since. When they diagnosed my daughter with the same learning differences 30 yrs later, I was very upset with the evaluator. WTF was a private school going to do to help her was my line of reasoning?

Now a days the teacher would have been booted, and I would have been praised!!!!

This is nuts, it would be like saing man is the cause of Global Warming.

Stick to the facts or stop teaching.

This is nuts, it would be like saying man is the cause of Global Warming.

Stick to the facts or stop teaching.

Does the teacher distribute loaves and fishes in the cafeteria at lunchtime? I can't believe this guy has been allowed to spew this crap to students for all these years. He needs to keep his fundamentalist views to himself, so "he will play the fool nowhere but in his own house," to quote Hamlet.

Yes! New Jersey! Deep in the Bible Belt! What do you expect?
Insert Larry's BaaaHaaa(sp!)
The idiots are everywhere just like a few of us have always known.

What a surprise, the education system attacking the student who surfaces a problem with teachers.

Whew. That's a new one.

"Does the teacher distribute loaves and fishes in the cafeteria at lunchtime?

Posted by ratso2 at 2007-02-20 08:10 PM"

No, but I think he hits the blood of Christ pretty hard.

"Does the teacher distribute loaves and fishes in the cafeteria at lunchtime?

Posted by ratso2 at 2007-02-20 08:10 PM"

No, but I think he hits the blood of Christ pretty hard.

There is something "fundementally" flawed in "fundementalist" doctrine.

People like this definately put the "FUN" in "fundemental"

And remember, folks-you CAN'T use the wkord fundemental-

Without using the word "mental".....dare I say it? Yes!

DEMENTED

This is nuts, it would be like saing man is the cause of Global Warming.

Stick to the facts or stop teaching.

So over a hundred years of science, thousands of scientists,a mountain of documented evidence and even GWB's acknowledgement and global warming is as believable as the Flintstones?
To misquote Puck, "Lord, what fools these righties be".

Science is a sham!

Scientists are commiting fraud-daily!

We didn't go to the moon-the footage was shot in a studio...

The Sun and stars DO revolve around the Earth!

The Earth IS Flat!

And there are Dragons in the oceans that are sinking our ships....

Does he have the Ten Commandments tattooed on his ass, five per cheek? No, I forgot, tattooing is a sin since the body is a temple. Too bad the teacher's brain is a landfill of discarded, obsolete, antiquated drek disguised as knowledge.

I would just like to reiterate that this is happening in NEW JERSEY -not Arkansas, Georgia, etc.

And in another anecdotal demonstration that the end of the world is nigh, the Fort Smith, Arkansas school board curriculum committee yesterday voted unanimously AGAINST recommending a class designed to teach the Bible as a "foundational document" in history and literature.

I think it's all global warming...

This is so simple...send that teacher packing with a glowing letter of reference....he belongs in a Christian school

Give the kids some money, and throw the death threat makers and bullies out of the god damned school...

Monte gets a funny!

Besides, everyone knows that the reason that the Dinosaurs are extinct is that Noah forgot to put them on the Ark!

Fire this clown and give the kid a medal.

Valis:
My point exactly. Ratso and I live in S.C.
near the coast. Most, not all, but most of the 6000 year old earth believers live upstate. Someone please tell me this idiot grew up in NJ and is not a transplant from the South. Never mind. He's one less looney the South has to put up with.

"On the recordings, which Matthew made surreptitiously starting in September, Mr. Paszkiewicz is heard telling the class that there were dinosaurs aboard Noah's ark and that there is no scientific basis for evolution or the Big Bang theory of the origin of the universe"

Mr Passtheprozac should not be allowed to teach anything other than Sunday school and even there he should be heavily monitored.

Wot a dangerous, deviant, sad, pathetic excuse fer a teacher.

Mr Chips he aint!

If this shit, including the death threats and pussy-assed "shoot the messenger" response from the schoolboard, occured in Mississippi or Arkansas or sommat Spud would prolly not bat an eye here. But violent ignorant thumpers in freakin' Newark? That's sad.

Scarey "simple" response is best case and prolly won't occur here wifout a successful suit or two.

Be Well.

PS: Freed fer the day by the alien overlords from their fiendish sugar mines at long last, the tater o' doom has once agin re-joined the on-going festivities at the Drudge Retort, the heart and soul of blogworld, doncha know?

This entering has, of course, occured
stage left.

"But violent ignorant thumpers in freakin' Newark?"

I'm guessing you've never been to Newark...

Suspend him without pay or fire him. Problem solved. All people working on the government dime should be taped. If they aren't doing their job, find someone who will.

Spud:
I left you out of my list today. You are of course near the top. See my McCain post if you need details. Nice to have you back. Ratso is under the weather so you will have to be silly alone tonight.

"Last fall, Matthew, 16, taped the teacher, David Paszkiewicz, telling students in a history class that if they do not believe that Jesus died for their sins, they "belong in hell."

All this teacher did was to effectively create a hostile envrironment by pitting those that agreed with him against those who did not.

Fired!

Hmmm. A few months ago the American Civil Liberties Union went on record against the United States government recording inbound phone calls from suspected terrorists, and argued that in the event the evidence appeared that justified an arrest, it should be disregarded because no warrant was obtained before taping the conversation, and is thereby unconstitutional.

But here, armed with a tape made by a student without the knowledge, let alone the permission, of the teacher, the ACLU stridently claims a violation of the Constitution by the school--NOT the student--and offered to join in a lawsuit.

Hard to keep up with the ACLU, which seems to flip flop, given their mood. Until you ask, where are they likely to make the most money? And then you know.

"everyone knows that the reason that the Dinosaurs are extinct is that Noah forgot to put them on the Ark!"

I did the math regarding the Ark once...you know, cubits, multiple levels, etc. It turns out each animal gets on average less than a square inch of space.

(with apologies to Bill Cosby:) "Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight."

Leave to rightisafuckingmoron to come with such an idiotic comparison.

Leave it to rightisafuckingmoron to come with such an idiotic comparison.

Dave:
I had heard about those nutcases. I had not been to their site lately. They even have a stupid coin. I'm going to find out where their target county is. I'm sure it must be upstate. Charleston is too risky for them. The last Chief of Police was a black Jewish man. The Navy base also brought in a lot of outsiders who have stayed.
I'll call my mom. She's part of the religious right but she's not crazy. She may know what is going on in Pickens County. I'll let you know if I find out anything. I think they should just go live in the desert near the Mormon-give me fifty wives groups. Lots of land and no normal people close by to bother them.

"They even have a stupid coin."

Wow! I want one! Where can you get 'em?

Good one Dave. Your posts are so intimidating. Have you thought of doing this professionally? Maybe you should try to become John Edwards' new blogger--two positions just came open, and I think you're a shoo-in.

It turns out each animal gets on average less than a square inch of space.

Danforth - as we all know this wasn't that long ago. Animals were really teeny tiny back then. When God made the heavens and the earth and there was light and dark and water upon it and then land and then (whew even I'm tired) well anyways...he saved a little on the materials list and made them really small.

When Noah marched them all out he ran them through a little of the remaining flood waters and, like the little sponges where were.....POOF!!!

I heard this story weeks ago. It annoyed me to think that in the shadow of NYC, that a public school teacher could be so out of touch with the need to insulate students from teachers who put their personal religious beliefs into the curriculum!

His personal views could not have been approved by the Board of Regents of New Jersey. If he wanted to preach, then he should do so in his temple, church, or mosque. But if he wants to have the taxpayers pay his salary, then he needs to stick to strict separation of religious opinions or beliefs and facts.

He should be fired. The school district needs to be chastened and sued. And the student who recorded the BS going on in class should be rewarded.

DAVETHEWAVE wrote:

I did that same stunt in my private school. The lunatic teacher had thrown a hissy fit over nothing. When she found my tape recorder, she sent me to the principal's office.

I have always hated that school ever since. When they diagnosed my daughter with the same learning differences 30 yrs later, I was very upset with the evaluator. WTF was a private school going to do to help her was my line of reasoning?

Now a days the teacher would have been booted, and I would have been praised!!!!

Ummm, Dave....if you HATED the school, why did you send your daughter to it????????

Good question Pugz. And it also begs the question as to whether learning disabilities are genetic.

We'll know in a few years, when Dave's daughter is old enough to post here.

Had a guy in my OSSF class ten years ago try to tape the instructor from the front row by placing a tape recorder on the desk.
Instructor said, "Please do not record my lectures".
No response.
Again, "please do not record my lectures".
No response.
Instructor reached down, turned off the recorder...the guy walked out.
Turned out the guy did not understand the language and was having a family member transcribe it for him.
Globalization.
And this was ten years ago.

"Spud. I left you out of my list today. You are of course near the top."

Woo Hoo!

Spud is chuffed fer sure!

This marks the first recorded instance where Spud has made any kind of a list which didn't have the word "shit" on it!

Does Berkeley haff a southern belle drawl going on?

Spud is ask cos Spud is a sucker fer a gal wif a southern accent.

Such a one could call Spud every bad name inna book and Spud'd just stand there wif a big dopey grin on his face going "say that agin!" over and over.

Spud has similar thing fer gals wif British accents.

But Spud is digress yet agin.

"Ratso is under the weather..."

Bum-hair, Dude!

Spud hopes Ratso feels better soon so he can come out and play wif Spud in blog-world.

Be Well.

PS: "Riiiiiiight"

Spud is LUFF the immortal Bill Cosby "Noah" sketch.

Good 'un Danforth!

I had heard about those nutcases.


Anderson, Greenville, Spartanburg, Aiken counties.

In the state of Florida it is against the law to record a telephone conversation without the person's knowledge. I wonder why such a law would be passed. If someone says something then why do they have the right to not have it recorded? In my own daughter's case, her ex is a nut case yet they share custody of a child. WEre his comments, which come very often, recorded the court would have no difficulty determining that he has no business raising a child. Who do we protect with such laws?

BTW, I just wonder which two animals the Tyranusaurax Rex was berthed between.
Must have been exciting for Noah to go catch a couple of those suckers.

YEAH!

Don't forget that hotbed of culture --- York county SC!

I thought florence SC was a shithole --- then I saw yorkhickory grove SC!

After that florence didn't look so bad anymore!

Spud: My accent is thick as butter. It's not a country southern accent either but not as rolling and beautiful as my dad's friend Fritz Hollings. I guess mine is closer to Sen. Glen McConnell.
RiR:
Leave Dave alone.Play nice if possible.
Dave:
Coins on the first page bottom right hand.

RiR: Sorry. Comment was not meant for you.Forgive me?
PUGZ: YOU leave Dave alone.You are being ugly and rude.
MrC:
Funny Flag

RiR: Apology? I was right the first time. Don't bring kids into this. Glass house?

"But here, armed with a tape made by a student without the knowledge, let alone the permission, of the teacher..."

RIR,

Rights to tape surreptitiously vary from state to state.

I confused DavetheWave with Dave. Apologies.

Of course the teacher is an asshole but it would still have been a polite thing to ask :"Do you mind if I record you ? I find your classes so "interesting"

Aya,

So your solution is to lie?

How is it a lie?

Right is a douchebag-
Re: Good question Pugz. And it also begs the question as to whether learning disabilities are genetic.

We'll know in a few years, when Dave's daughter is old enough to post here.

and, later...

I confused DavetheWave with Dave. Apologies.



So, it would be OK to ridicule a man's young daughter if he were to disagree with you politically?

"How is it a lie?"

"interesting" isn't the truth.

Right.

Okay, Dan. How about "Thought-provoking"? "Inspiring"? It certainly inspired the ACLU to show up to the nearest microphone.

Right is a douchebag-
You are a creep.

(and a douchebag)

But mostly a creep.

Boyd:
Thank you.
Bringing up a posters children in order to be cute or funny is playing with fire.
Pugz and RiR:
Fire is dangerous.

"It certainly inspired the ACLU to show up to the nearest microphone."

Do you ever ask yourself why, or do you just have that automatic reaction wherever the ACLU shows?

The student claimed---and I believe---without a tape no one would have believed him. The school's reaction despite the tapes was to blame the messenger. Is it your solution to hang this kid out to dry?

I was making a joke, Boyd. If you didn't think it was funny, I don't give a damn. I get to sit here night after night and see you liberals trash Jenna and Barbara Bush. Why? Because you don't agree with their dad's politics. Ditto for Mary Cheney. I also think it's a little creepy the way you stalk other posters, trying to find out where they work and how much they make, but if that's what you find boner-inspiring in the internet age, hey, who am I to rain on your parade?

Danforth-
This is the same "man" who thought another poster's child fair game for a cheap political point, and who stated (same thread -this one) that the gov't spying on citizens without warrant was equivalent to what this student did in a public classroom.

In short, he's a douchebag, a creep, and an idiot.

Douchebag-
re: "I also think it's a little creepy the way you stalk other posters, trying to find out where they work and how much they make"

What?

You've gone unhinged, moonbat.

The student claimed---and I believe---without a tape no one would have believed him. The school's reaction despite the tapes was to blame the messenger. Is it your solution to hang this kid out to dry?

Posted by Danforth
* * * *

Nope. I just take issue with your calling Aya's suggestion a lie. Say what you want about the teacher's rantings here, but you can't say they're uninteresting. Not a big deal, though. I taped my ex-wife's phone calls and tapped into her emails while we were having a custody battle, even though it was illegal to do so. The judge ruled in my favor, and made other rulings that have established precedent for surreptitious recordings in custody disputes. So, hooray for the kid who taped his teacher. Hooray for dads who are fighting for custody of their kids against an unfaithful spouse. And hooray for the government of the United States for taping phone calls of terrorists calling their pals here. The fact that the ACLU is on the right side of only one of these three is a problem for them, not me.

Go stalk someone else, Boyd. You're boring.

...but allow me to continue the thought, you unhinged moonbat creep:

I have never said a word about Bush's daughters nor have I mentioned Mary Cheney outside her capacity as a fundraiser for her dad. But to an idiot, I suppose those distinctions (truth/falsehood, NSA/middleschool child, Poster/poster's child) are without distinction.

Creep.

RIR,

Drinking and posting is not becoming for you!

I suspect you are a very together individual in his business life but not so in his personal life, life will not be great until ones learns to make the two work.

I enjoy the differences we see in the segments of the economy but not sure your posting the values of what you actually think here.

Anyone who can think this teacher is not out of line would be frightening. The issue is not with the ACLU, the issue is the school, the district, and the administrators and how they have handled the glaring problem.

Have a feeling most will not have a job in the near future.

"I just take issue with your calling Aya's suggestion a lie."

Aya himself put it in quotes. What does that suggest to you? To me it suggests purposeful misleading.

Well, I'm devastated that you feel that way about me, Boyd. And it must have been someone else using your login who was following me around for two days on two threads, asking how I justified my income, what I did, where I did it, etc. I'm so sorry I've offended you, Drudge Retort liberals, and the American Civil Liberties Union. And even though I don't know what a moonbat is, I feel terrible about being one.

Hmmm. A few months ago the American Civil Liberties Union went on record against the United States government recording inbound phone calls from suspected terrorists, and argued that in the event the evidence appeared that justified an arrest, it should be disregarded because no warrant was obtained before taping the conversation, and is thereby unconstitutional.

But here, armed with a tape made by a student without the knowledge, let alone the permission, of the teacher, the ACLU stridently claims a violation of the Constitution by the school--NOT the student--and offered to join in a lawsuit.

I can't really even begin to express what the limits of your stupidity may be, though I'm sure you'll give me a few more hints for as long as I care to read your creepy and insipid posts.

"And hooray for the government of the United States for taping phone calls of terrorists calling their pals here."

Speaking of purposefully misleading...

The ACLU wasn't against the taping of phone calls. It was against doing it without a warrant. Why do righties always conveniently leave out that salient point?

Anyone who can think this teacher is not out of line would be frightening. The issue is not with the ACLU, the issue is the school, the district, and the administrators and how they have handled the glaring problem.

Have a feeling most will not have a job in the near future.

Posted by moneywar

* * * *

Suits me. Hmmm. We've got on one side the ACLU, and on the other an entrenched, unionized group of educator-bureaucrats. What outcome do I want?

1. The ACLU to win a decisive victory
2. The teachers and administrators to be vindicated
3. A very expensive, protracted legal dispute that consumes years, and hundreds of thousands of dollars as two left-wing organizations tear each other apart.

That's a toughie.

Aya himself put it in quotes. What does that suggest to you? To me it suggests purposeful misleading.

Posted by Danforth

* * * *

Well, to me it seemed like a double entendre. Don't really care, though.

Danforth-
re:The ACLU wasn't against the taping of phone calls. It was against doing it without a warrant. Why do righties always conveniently leave out that salient point?

That's unfair, Danforth. I believe that Douchebag would refer to himself as more of a libertarian, LOL.

"as two left-wing organizations tear each other apart."

Years back our Union local discovered one of our premiere members was doing voiceover work under the table for less than scale. We only found this out after he was replaced and he came to the Union wanting us to recoup his "lost" monies. We wanted to fine him and the hirers as well, as they both broke the rules. Our lawyers told us we could not only not fine the member, we were obligated to take his side in the dispute. I was literally sick to my stomach.

The Union, sadly, has no choice in this matter.

The ACLU wasn't against the taping of phone calls. It was against doing it without a warrant. Why do righties always conveniently leave out that salient point?

* * * *

Because they're not American citizens. And for all the bluster, nobody can produce a single American citizen who can demonstrate he was harmed by the wiretapping operations, or for that matter, that he had been. And for all I heard about the promised hearings as soon as the so-called Rethug party no longer controls the Congress, the silence is deafening. Murtha is busy scheduling hearings on Hastert's plane rides, and the rest are busy brokering votes on non-binding resolutions. Could it be it was all a smoke screen to get the hard-lefties to the polls, when deep down, the Dem leadership knew there was nothing there? After all, they sit in the same intelligence hearings the Repubs do.

That's what I think. But hey, maybe Pelosi will surprise me, and announce FISA hearings next month. Wanna give me odds on that one?

The Union, sadly, has no choice in this matter.

Posted by Danforth
* * *
Everybody has a choice.

Douchebag-
re: Because they're not American citizens. And for all the bluster, nobody can produce a single American citizen who can demonstrate he was harmed by the wiretapping operations, or for that matter, that he had been.

Dude, it is secret wiretapping, and only one end of the call/communication is outside the country (as far as we know, and it would be treason to find out...)

Just out of curiousity, though, do you consider yourself a libertarian?

No.

"Everybody has a choice."

What do you mean? We didn't, and I would've given a lot not to have had to defend that backstabber. It cost our little autonomous local tens of thousands of dollars, and delayed a dues decrease (yes, decrease) I was trying to implement by several years.

Well, that's refreshing, Douchebag. You're the real deal.

"And for all the bluster, nobody can produce a single American citizen who can demonstrate he was harmed by the wiretapping operations, or for that matter, that he had been."

Bullshit. Numerous multinational reporters---including American citizens---complained their overseas contacts would no longer comply for fear of wiretapping.

Well, why didn't you just say no? Sorry, pal, you broke union rules, you're on your own. Don't like it, then sue us. After all, if doing the wrong thing (paying him what he wants) is expensive, why not at least try the right thing? And BTW, you might misunderstand the role of an attorney and a client. YOU tell the ATTORNEYS what is going to happen, NOT the other way around. Soon as your lawyers start telling you what you can and cannot do, time to find other ones.

Danforth-
Re: Numerous multinational reporters---including American citizens---complained their overseas contacts would no longer comply for fear of wiretapping.

Good luck with that tack. Douchebag is a duckspeaker, doubleplusgood!

Later.

"Don't like it, then sue us."

Because he could rightfully sue us, Einstein.

We're a national Union, but our reserves don't amount to a single day's profit of the guys we have to negotiate with across the table. Losing a lawsuit like that would've forced our local to shut it's doors. But I guess it's easy to dismiss when you're not in the ring fighting.

"you might misunderstand the role of an attorney and a client."

And you might misunderstand the requirements of Union representation. We have to take the cases that make us want to hold our nose.

BTW, the lawyers were from the National Headquarters. I'm betting it wasn't their first exposure to that issue.

Gee. Danforth I feel I can handle. But when you add the intellectual firepower of a Boyd, I'm just clearly out of my league here.

It's a shame how obvious it is that the right wing is doomed, when up against the oratorical brilliance of one such as Boyd:

Right is a douchebag-

Right is a douchebag-
You are a creep.

(and a douchebag)

But mostly a creep.

n short, he's a douchebag, a creep, and an idiot.

Douchebag-
re: "I also think it's a little creepy the way you stalk other posters, trying to find out where they work and how much they make"

What?

You've gone unhinged, moonbat.

I can't really even begin to express what the limits of your stupidity may be, though I'm sure you'll give me a few more hints for as long as I care to read your creepy and insipid posts.

Well, that's refreshing, Douchebag. You're the real deal.

Good luck with that tack. Douchebag is a duckspeaker, doubleplusgood!

"Sorry, pal, you broke union rules..."

Actually, that's what I wanted.

Each side claimed the other wanted the "deal". I wanted to fine them both, because no matter whose story was true, they were both in the wrong and both broke our rules.

I was shot down in no uncertain terms.

"Gee. Danforth I feel I can handle."

Sorry, RIR, I don't play on that team.

Flattered, though....

Well, I honestly don't have much use for unions. Seems to me like the guy broke a union rule, then got rewarded for it (twice--first by taking a job that probably should have gone to someone else, then by demanding to be paid the scale he would have been entitled to, unless I've misunderstood things). Then lawyers all around got paid, and everyone left a little more cynical than before about what good a union is for in the first place. Which goes a long way toward explaining plunging union membership.

Oh, I just got that. An gay reference. How trite.

No sense of humor. How colorless.

I guess I am. We douchebags are like that. Gay, too.

I don't understand how being gay has anything to do with using a man's young daughter as the butt of a joke.

But, I'm not a douchebag.

See ya' around.

The teacher was a whack job, but rules are rules, and the rules prohibit recording the teacher w/o permission. The teacher should be shit canned though, because that line of teaching does NOT belong in a public school.

If the kid had gone home and transcribed the recording into longhand notes, those could have and should have been accepted as proof of the teachers transgressions. Especially if other students signed off to their validity.

And Pugz say what you want, but next time read carefully before you retort. I went to private school that to this day is still all boys. My point was that if one of the best schools in America didn't help address my issues, why should I assume another might help my daughter at the cost of 16K a year?

After that florence didn't look so bad anymore!


None of the counties named have anything on Williamsburg county or the county seat of Kingstree. I grew up there and the best thing to do on the weekends was leave and go to Florence or Charleston.

I am a strong follower of Christ and i think there has to be more to this story. I also believe how the school board is handling everything is wrong. It just goes to prove that "Christians" are to religious and not following Jesus's teachings.

I am a strong follower of Christ and i think there has to be more to this story. I also believe how the school board is handling everything is wrong. It just goes to prove that "Christians" are to religious and not following Jesus's teachings.

Axiom: Your last name wouldn't be Jarrett would it? Or Tanner? High school best friend grew up there.

this is a tough one.
after teaching for 30 years things have changed so much that you almost have to reinvent things every new year........

I think that it doesnt matter which side you are on, you had better be careful with things you get into in teaching any subject matter.........

of course has the ACLU ever helped out anyone who has accused the teacher of liberal rants......maybe one of two but can anyone come up with that? and thats my problem........

again though........ doesnt matter which side.......you are going to get yourself into something you just dont need.......

in my subject, it was tough at times when you were teaching music history for instance during the time when religion was the main focus behind some composers and all that.........but there are plenty of ways to expound on any of your opinions.......the captive audience of the class is probably not the place......

why do all the looney atheists hang out in cyber space all day?

I noticed nobody threw New Jersey under the bus for this. Had this been a teacher from Kansas you guys would have creamed in your jeans to attack Kansas education.

But then again, we don't have tape recorders here in Kansas yet:(

I noticed nobody threw New Jersey under the bus for this. Had this been a teacher from Kansas you guys would have creamed in your jeans to attack Kansas education.

But then again, we don't have tape recorders here in Kansas yet:(

Posted by eberly at 2007-02-21 09:12 AM | Reply

Hey I attack Kansas education all of the time. Hell I am a product of Kansas Education.

Larry

eberly.....remember this is a liberal site.....and you cant have too many athiest on a liberal site....
of course we have no shortage of loonies either..........ha ha...........

I noticed nobody threw New Jersey under the bus for this. Had this been a teacher from Kansas.
Posted by eberly at 2007-02-21 09:12 AM

YEAH! That's because we have all already given up on Kansas silly.
There is no saving that brain dead place now; it's the Shiavo of America!

But let me make such rude, extreme and obnoxious statement valid to the evangelical terrorist wingnuts by prefacing it in a book called "Somebody's got to Say it" so such vile comments are acceptable and make the shallow feel good about their ignorant positions!

eberly.....remember this is a liberal site.....and you cant have too many athiest on a liberal site....
of course we have no shortage of loonies either..........ha ha...........
Posted by bushlovertwo at 2007-02-21 09:22 AM
YEAH! Unlike the FreeRupublic.

You know ------- the place where serial stalkers, cookie poisoners meet and communal prayers for someone's death are common place!

When was the last time a retort poster was arrested as a terrorist?


Hehe!

"of course has the ACLU ever helped out anyone who has accused the teacher of liberal rants"

Sure. Rush Limbaugh.

I dont know RED.........felt like anyone been following YOU lately........

I dont recall any case where the aclu came in to help a student who accused a liberal of spewing his shit out to the class.........and worse......failing people for thier opinions........


but alas............as I said before ...this may be a good case for the following credo......

everything in moderation.......

And RiR, you are comparing warantless wiretaps of private conversations between parties to a statement made in public to a group of people with no expectation of privacy at all whatsoever. Once again your logic is faulty. Stick to numbers dude you can't comprehend anything else.

Posted by taxman
* * * *

Apparently. So the ACLU is all for taping conversations where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, that what you're saying?

I don't care. If I tried to make sense of where the ACLU stands on one issue or another, there would be no congruence. I'm just happy that, in this case, they're going after a Northeastern public school system, packed full of liberals. One liberal union, pitted against another. And hopefully it'll be very, very expensive.

But that's just me, looking at the numbers again.

Gotta wonder what the reactions would be if this teacher was recorded repeatedly going into 'Bush is evil' screeds.

I'd be willing to bet that some on this thread who are calling for this nutjob's head (rightly so) would be ferociously defending the anti-Bush teacher's rants.

Never knew the classroom wasexpected to be Private. Hell everytime I acted up in school but 2:00 everyone knew about it. LOL Do try again RIWrong

Larry

Jeff,

I don't think the equivalent of this would be anti-Bush rants but anti-God (Christian, Muslim, Jew) or anti-religion of any kind (Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.) rants.

Gal,

Anti-Bush rants still qualify as proselytizing.

The comparison works.

DAVETHEWAVE wrote:

I did that same stunt in my private school. The lunatic teacher had thrown a hissy fit over nothing. When she found my tape recorder, she sent me to the principal's office.

I have always hated that school ever since. When they diagnosed my daughter with the same learning differences 30 yrs later, I was very upset with the evaluator. WTF was a private school going to do to help her was my line of reasoning?

Now a days the teacher would have been booted, and I would have been praised!!!!

Dave, you know the difference between public school and private school, stop being dishonest.

Josh:
Welcome to the site.

Anti-Bush rants still qualify as proselytizing.

The comparison works.


I agree that anti or pro-Bush rants would be out of line, but the truer comparison here would be to a "no religion is good" rant. But if you want to go the poltical route, pushing patriotism could be seen as a form of proselytizing. So could pushing anti-patriotic sentiments.

""I'd be willing to bet that some on this thread who are calling for this nutjob's head (rightly so) would be ferociously defending the anti-Bush teacher's rants.""

But, the ACLU represented Rush didn't it.
Us libs support the ACLU so that sort of makes your comment just a pretend situation which, in the past, liberals have proven isn't even true.
Fact is, most libs demand equal rights even for those we don't like, unlike righties who scream like stuck pigs when it is they who are silenced but cheer when it is the other side.

Sounds more like a lecture to me.

Really? Sounds more like a sermon to me.

"I dont recall any case where the aclu came in to help a student who accused a liberal of spewing his shit out to the class"
Posted by bushlovertwo at 2007-02-21 09:49 AM

YEAH! That because you never bothered to look before spewing!

Rhode Island ACLU (2006) filed an appeal in federal court on behalf of an inmate who was barred from preaching during Christian religious services, something he had done for the past seven years under the supervision and support of prison clergy. The prisoner, Wesley Spratt, believes his preaching is a calling from God. Prison officials cited vague and unsubstantiated security reasons for imposing the preaching ban on Mr. Spratt. The ACLU argued that the ban violates Mr. Spratt's religious freedoms guaranteed to prisoners under federal law. www.riaclu.org/20060111.html

The ACLU of Nevada (2005) defended the free exercise rights and free speech rights of evangelical Christians to preach on the sidewalks of the Strip in Las Vegas. www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp?
S=3379553&nav=15MVaB2T
The ACLU of New Mexico (2005) joined forces with the American Family Association to succeed in freeing a preacher, Shawn Miller, from the Roosevelt County jail, where he was held for 109 days for street preaching. The ACLU became involved at the request of Miller's wife, Theresa. www.stcynic.com/blog/ archives/2005/08/
aclu_defends_another_street_pr
.php; www.aclu.org/religion/gen/
19918prs20050804.html
The ACLU of New Jersey (2005) filed a a motion to submit a friend-of-the-court brief on behalf of Olivia Turton, a second-grade student who was forbidden from singing "Awesome God" in a voluntary, after-school talent show. The only restriction on the student's selection for the talent show was that it be "G-rated." The case, filed in federal court, is Turton, et al. v. Frenchtown Elementary School, et al. www.aclu.org/religion/schools/
20174prs20050920.html
The ACLU of Louisiana (2005) filed suit against the Department of Corrections on behalf of a Mormon inmate, Norman Sanders, who was denied the right to practice his religion by being denied access to religious texts, including The Book of Mormon, and Mormon religious services. "Mormons should receive the same accommodation of their beliefs as do individuals of other faiths," said Joe Cook, Executive Director, ACLU of Louisiana. "Fair and equal treatment means they deserve the right to a place to meet, have a minister and discuss their beliefs like other groups." www.laaclu.org/SandersvCain; www.laaclu.org/News/2005/
Aug26SandersvCain.htm
The ACLU of Pennsylvania (2005) won a battle against Turtle Creek Borough that repeatedly denied an occupancy permit to a predominantly African-American church, Ekklesia, which had purchased the church building from a predominantly white parish. The case is Ekklesia Church v. Borough of Turtle Creek. The case was settled. www.aclupa.org/downloads/
SpringDocket.pdf
The ACLU of Oregon (2004-05) filed suit on behalf of high school basketball players from an Adventist school against the Oregon School Activities Association, which administers competitive athletic and artistic competitions in Oregon high schools. The ACLU argued that the Adventist basketball players who have made it to the state tournament should not be required to play tournament games on Saturday, their Sabbath. The case, argued in Oregon courts, is Nakashima v. Board Of Education. www.aclu-or.org/litigation/
portlandadventacademy/ PAA.html

The ACLU of Massachusetts (2000) defended inmate Peter Kane's right to exercise his religious beliefs when prison officials confiscated his rosary beads. The rosary beads were black and white and prison rules allow only solid-colored beads. www.firmstand.org/news/
rosary.html
The ACLU of Virginia (2000) represented Charles D. Johnson, a street preacher who was convicted under Richmond's noise ordinance. The Virginia Court of Appeals reversed his conviction in 2000. The case is Johnson v. City of Richmond, 2000 WL 1459848 (Va. App. 2000).
The ACLU of Virginia (1999) filed suit against the Department of Defense and the Office of Personnel Management on behalf of Michelle Hall, a Jehovah's Witness who was fired from her job as a produce worker at Ft. Belvoir commissary because she refused to sign a loyalty oath. Ms. Hall objected to a phrase in the oath, that she would "bear true faith and allegiance to" the Constitution, because it contradicts her undivided allegiance and faithfulness to Jehovah. The ACLU argued the oath violated Ms. Hall's freedom of religion and speech rights. In a settlement, Ms. Hall was reinstated and given back pay. www.freedomforum.org/
templates/document.asp?
documentID=8521; pqasb.pqarchiver.com/
washingtonpost/access/
61421555.html
The ACLU of Eastern Missouri (1999) secured a favorable settlement for a nurse, Miki M. Cain, who was fired for wearing a cross-shaped lapel pin on her uniform. legalminds.lp.findlaw.com/
list/news/msg00021.html

"I dont recall any case where the aclu came in to help a student who accused a liberal of spewing his shit out to the class"
Posted by bushlovertwo at 2007-02-21 09:49 AM

YEAH! That because you never bothered to look before spewing!

ACLU of Ohio Defends High School Student Expelled Over Parody Profile on MySpace.com 04/25/2006
... ACLU of Ohio Defends High School Student Expelled ... April 26, the Springfield School Board, located ... allows students to write about schools and staff members ... "Schools have an obligation to teach students fundamental ...
www.aclu.org/freespeech/youth/
25343prs20060425.html

ACLU Prepares to Defend High School Teacher's Right to Post List of Banned Books 12/01/1999
... ACLU Prepares to Defend High School Teacher ... speech rights of a local high school teacher who ... In a letter sent to school officials this morning, ... Kidd Superintendent Rockingham County Schools 304 County Office ...
www.aclu.org/freespeech/
censorship/
11038prs19991201.html

ACLU of New Jersey Files Free Speech Lawsuit Against School District for Retaliation Against Eighth Grade Webmaster 12/18/2003
... Free Speech Lawsuit Against School District ... today filed a lawsuit against school officials ... "Our schools should encourage debate and political engagement ... represented numerous students whose schools punished them for ...
www.aclu.org/freespeech/gen/
10977prs20031218.html


God Damn your Dumb!

There is no saving that brain dead place now; it's the Shiavo of America!

That occured in Florida dumbfuck. If you are going to accuse Kansas of something then perhaps use a Kansas example.

All people working on the government dime should be taped. If they aren't doing their job, find someone who will.

Posted by JOE

Couldn't agree more, starting right at the top. Release the VPs visitor logs!!!


So, hooray for the kid who taped his teacher. Hooray for dads who are fighting for custody of their kids against an unfaithful spouse. And hooray for the government of the United States for taping phone calls of terrorists calling their pals here. The fact that the ACLU is on the right side of only one of these three is a problem for them, not me.

Posted by rightisright

You honestly don't see the difference between the Government taping private conversations and a private citizen taping a public lecture?

That occured in Florida dumbfuck. If you are going to accuse Kansas of something then perhaps use a Kansas example.
Posted by eberly at 2007-02-21 11:11 AM


YEAH! Did I say it happened in Kansas you Boortz buyer?

No, I didn't!


I did however compare Kansas to a lifeless vegetable! And rightfully so I might add! Fool!

If the taping is illegal and thereby the evidence is not admitted in court, the case should be dismissed to avoid any costs to the public. The school should not have to defend itself in court if the case cannot stand.

If the tape is admissable, let the school administrators go down with the teacher.

Personally, I think all these kinds of lawsuits should be against the teachers and administrators - NOT THE SCHOOL. Why should I pay in taxes to cover a lawsuit by fools who were hired and went beyond their mandate?

Petrous,

It is called respondeat superior which is latin for "let the master answer."

Historically, this doctrine was applied in master/servant or employer/employee relationships. If the employee or servant committed a civil wrong against a third party, the master or employer could be liable for the acts of their servant or employee when those acts were committed within the scope of the relationship. The third party could proceed against both the servant/employee and master/employer. The action against the servant/employee would be based upon the direct responsibility of the servant/employee for his conduct. The action against the master/employer is based upon the theory of vicarious liability, by which one party can be held liable for the acts of another.

Petrous,

It is called respondeat superior which is latin for "let the master answer."

Historically, this doctrine was applied in master/servant or employer/employee relationships. If the employee or servant committed a civil wrong against a third party, the master or employer could be liable for the acts of their servant or employee when those acts were committed within the scope of the relationship. The third party could proceed against both the servant/employee and master/employer. The action against the servant/employee would be based upon the direct responsibility of the servant/employee for his conduct. The action against the master/employer is based upon the theory of vicarious liability, by which one party can be held liable for the acts of another.

But here, armed with a tape made by a student without the knowledge, let alone the permission, of the teacher, the ACLU stridently claims a violation of the Constitution by the school--NOT the student--and offered to join in a lawsuit.

Hard to keep up with the ACLU, which seems to flip flop, given their mood. Until you ask, where are they likely to make the most money? And then you know.

Posted by rightisright

you are a fucking moron..I used tape recorders ALL the time through high school, college and grad school.. You dont always hear the first go round and it great to have this as reference.

go drown yourself.

There are enough students to verify the story. What needs to be done is the school needs to launch an investigation and ask students from the past years if recall witnessing such behavior.

Since this is a clear violation between church and state and every teacher knows the ramifications, the teacher needs to put on probation with the understanding if he says anything related to what he did, he will instantly be fired for cause. Also is parents try to sue the district and if the school has to pay anything for the teachers transgressions, the teacher will be fired for cause.

I do feel the teacher would be better off teaching at a Christian school for the rest of his natural life.

This law is clear and everyone knows it. The teacher knew what he was doing and made a conscious decision to disobey the constitution that is the basis of this country. As a teacher, it was a risk he voluntarily took. He is not a martyr, he is a criminal and obviously harmed and offended students. School should be a sanctuary from radical Christianity and Muslim extremism

You honestly don't see the difference between the Government taping private conversations and a private citizen taping a public lecture?

Posted by TFDNihilist

no he doesn't.. these are the idiots that are destroying america and the constitution. They should all be sent to gitmo for being idiots.

I did however compare Kansas to a lifeless vegetable! And rightfully so I might add! Fool!

Posted by Redneckville

Such cutting wit! If this is all you have then go back to your welfare office, ask for more money so you can buy some more government education.

I hope the student shows up everyday in this teachers class and burns a bible to let him know how he feels.

If the school is found to have promoted an environment that put a student at harm, it should fire every person involved in it and ensure they have no contact with children in the future. We can't have people willing to harm and destroy children involved in our childrens future. I mean would you send your children to a school with Mark Foley as teh teacher?? No one.

"Such cutting wit! If this is all you have then go back to your welfare office, ask for more money so you can buy some more government education."
Posted by eberly at 2007-02-21 12:19 PM


YEAH! I think you should know I went to a private military academy for most of my education. Paid for by my dad, an adamant anti communist and a scientist recruited and employed by the US government. He was granted immediate citizenship and flown to the USA on military aircraft so he could develop the things that put America on top, things that shitheaps like you take for granted everyday!

See, insulated people like you, who have never experienced real suffering or real oppression, have no concept of anything other than your nice safe "new deal" upbringing. A safe upbringing created and secured by great men like my father, (having known oppression and suffering first hand). Yet, you spit on it at every opportunity while having no idea what its like not to have a middle class. Not to have access to an education. Not to have financial and social equality. To live under real oppressive rule, (oppressive like not being able to critique the leaders and have all your conversations recorded and monitored).
You're just another ignorant and self absorbed individual who has no idea the results of what they advocate. How could you, all you have known is comfort, comfort afford you by what makes America different from every other country in the world? It's Government! A government that created a middle class. A government that afforded opportunity to all regardless of class, creed or color. A government based on the rule of law and justice to all. A government that created a stable and free platform for men (and women) to achieve great, great things for all mankind!

And yet you poopoo it because apparently 2 churches a block is not enough!

You poopoo it because the government wont force your religious dogma on others!

You poopoo it because the unwanted babies you so desperately want to save, will cost you money when "saved"!

You poopoo it because some old lady who devoted her life to raising good kids can have some piece of mind in their twilight years (costs you money)!

You poopoo it because those who you deem inferior but at the same time fail to see their necessity in our society (like maids and tomato pickers and shit shovelers) dare expect a wage that pays the bills.

You poopoo it because some make bad decisions, are victims of circumstance and need our help (the collective called Americans).

You poopoo it because some don't want to turn our back yards into an industrial cesspool!

But don't let all that stop you from trying to fill that hole in your soul with money OK!
Twit!

Was the ark large enough to hold all the required animals?
The Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits (Genesis 6:15), which is about 140x23x13.5 metres or 459x75x44 feet, so its volume was 43,500 m3 (cubic metres) or 1.54 million cubic feet. To put this in perspective, this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard American railroad stock cars, each of which can hold 240 sheep.

If the animals were kept in cages with an average size of 50x50x30 centimetres (20x20x12 inches), that is 75,000 cm3 (cubic centimetres) or 4800 cubic inches, the 16,000 animals would only occupy 1200 m3 (42,000 cubic feet) or 14.4 stock cars. Even if a million insect species had to be on board, it would not be a problem, because they require little space. If each pair was kept in cages of 10 cm (four inches) per side, or 1000 cm3, all the insect species would occupy a total volume of only 1000 m3, or another 12 cars. This would leave room for five trains of 99 cars each for food, Noah's family and range' for the animals. However, insects are not included in the meaning of behemah or remes in Genesis 6:19-20, so Noah probably would not have taken them on board as passengers anyway.

Tabulating the total volume is fair enough, since this shows that there would be plenty of room on the Ark for the animals with plenty left over for food, range etc. It would be possible to stack cages, with food on top or nearby (to minimize the amount of food carrying the humans had to do), to fill up more of the Ark space, while still allowing plenty of room for gaps for air circulation. We are discussing an emergency situation, not necessarily luxury accommodation. Although there is plenty of room for exercise, skeptics have overstated animals' needs for exercise anyway.

Even if we don't allow stacking one cage on top of another to save floor space, there would be no problem. Woodmorappe shows from standard recommended floor space requirements for animals that all of them together would have needed less than half the available floor space of the Ark's three decks. This arrangement allows for the maximum amount of food and water storage on top of the cages close to the animals.

Wow, your an odd one Marie!!!


I am watching all the protests of Bush's appearance in Chattanooga this afternoon. Its funny, most of the people in my office were in agreement that the Police should arrest all of them. All Repubes ofcourse.

Sometimes I hate living in TN. Oh Well, I'll stop bitching.

Hmmm. A few months ago the American Civil Liberties Union went on record against the United States government recording inbound phone calls from suspected terrorists, and argued that in the event the evidence appeared that justified an arrest, it should be disregarded because no warrant was obtained before taping the conversation, and is thereby unconstitutional.

But here, armed with a tape made by a student without the knowledge, let alone the permission, of the teacher, the ACLU stridently claims a violation of the Constitution by the school--NOT the student--and offered to join in a lawsuit.

Hard to keep up with the ACLU, which seems to flip flop, given their mood. Until you ask, where are they likely to make the most money? And then you know.

Posted by rightisright at 2007-02-20 09:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Unless you have a copy of the that particular states laws regarding recording conversations, then your just blowing hot air.

First, it was not done over a phone line (which can make a difference)

Second, he's a teacher, he should always assume he's being recorded. Many students DO record for the purpose of replaying missed points.

BTW, Where do you stand regarding the death threats made against the student by the good christian folk?

I lived in Charleston for a year (Navy Base). It was a nice place, especially downtown on the weekends. Isle of Palms was always a good time....but once you leave the Charleston area.........not so nice.

Odd? How so? I just wanted to set the record straight.

"But here, armed with a tape made by a student without the knowledge, let alone the permission, of the teacher"
Posted by rightisright at 2007-02-20 09:30 PM

YEAH! Did Hannity tell his rabid listeners to get their kids teacher's permission before recording their "liberal" rants?

Record liberals without permission = OK
Record "conservatives" without permission = BAD.

Such is the fake plastic "principle" I guess!

Hey, you got what you wanted, just not what you expected!

"Odd? How so? I just wanted to set the record straight."

You forgot about the dinosaurs.

So, were dinosaurs on the Ark?
In Genesis 6:1920, the Bible says that two of every sort of land vertebrate (seven of the "clean" animals) were brought by God to the Ark. Therefore, dinosaurs (land vertebrates) were represented on the Ark.

How did those huge dinosaurs fit on the Ark?
Although there are about 668 names of dinosaurs, there are perhaps only 55 different "kinds" of dinosaurs. Furthermore, not all dinosaurs were huge like the Brachiosaurus, and even those dinosaurs on the Ark were probably "teenagers" or young adults.

Creationist researcher John Woodmorappe has calculated that Noah had on board with him representatives from about 8,000 animal genera (including some now-extinct animals), or around 16,000 individual animals. When you realize that horses, zebras, and donkeys are probably descended from the horse-like "kind", Noah did not have to carry two sets of each such animal. Also, dogs, wolves, and coyotes are probably from a single canine "kind", so hundreds of different dogs were not needed.

According to Genesis 6:15, the Ark measured 300 x 50 x 30 cubits, which is about 460 x 75 x 44 feet, with a volume of about 1.52 million cubic feet. Researchers have shown that this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard railroad stock cars (US), each of which can hold 240 sheep. By the way, only 11% of all land animals are larger than a sheep.

Without getting into all the math, the 16,000-plus animals would have occupied much less than half the space in the Ark (even allowing them some moving-around space).

The Bible is reliable in all areas, including its account of the Ark (and the worldwide catastrophic Flood). A Christian doesn't have to have a blind faith to believe that there really was an Ark. What the Bible says about the Ark can even be measured and tested today.

Marie3,

So you have covered about 1/50th of all living critters that have been found and ID'd so far. There are over 350,000 different beetles alone...not this simple little idea of a million. How much time it took to load all these animals is ridiculous. Let's look at the math, let's say he walked up and down a plank with his helpers a million plus times. Each time going up and down we'll say requires 4 seconds(which is insanely fast for the size of the Ark you talk of). One day is 86400 seconds. That would take 47 days of non-stop loading all day and night with no rest. Don't think so. This is by far a generous estimate. If we say there are 20 million species and it took a more logical(but still not likely) 2 minutes per set. Then it would take over 27,777 days or 76 years. Not real plausible since this also is without out taking one single break.

Let's talk about the size of this Ark, where is it? Something of that size should be easy to find, especially since it's supposed to be parked on teh side of a mountain.

Enough water to cover earth is also a problem.
"The radius of the Earth is approx. 6370km
The height of Everest above sea-level is approx. 8.8 km
Therefore, the volume of the Earth is approx. 1,082,696,932,000km, or 1,080 billion cubic kilometers.
The volume of the earth to the height of Everest is 1,087,190,293,000km
Subtracting the first volume from the second gives approx. 4,493,361,000, or four thousand, five hundred million cubic kilometers of water!
Also, this rain is supposed to have fallen within about 40 days. That means that there would have been about 220 metres of rainfall every day over the entire planet (8800/40 = 220)! A few centimetres in a day is considered to be extremely heavy rain."

How did Noah w/o any complete maps of the world know to get the unique animals of all the continents only back to place tehy call home(Koala in Australia and countless more).

What about the dinosaurs?

fossil records indicate that the only land mammals that even existed at the same time as the dinosaurs were small rodent-like creatures. what's this crap about noah having dinosaurs on the ark??

"Creationist researcher John Woodmorappe..."

And who is this "John Woodmorappe?"

Why is this being discussed in a history class in a public school?

Posted by Gal_Tuesday


Why is this in the courts?

Why is this in the news?

Why do we freaken care?

Why do we freaken care?

Well, if you have to ask. . .

And yet you poopoo it because apparently 2 churches a block is not enough!

You poopoo it because the government wont force your religious dogma on others!

You poopoo it because the unwanted babies you so desperately want to save, will cost you money when "saved"!

You poopoo it because some old lady who devoted her life to raising good kids can have some piece of mind in their twilight years (costs you money)!

You poopoo it because those who you deem inferior but at the same time fail to see their necessity in our society (like maids and tomato pickers and shit shovelers) dare expect a wage that pays the bills.

You poopoo it because some make bad decisions, are victims of circumstance and need our help (the collective called Americans).

You poopoo it because some don't want to turn our back yards into an industrial cesspool!

But don't let all that stop you from trying to fill that hole in your soul with money OK!
Twit!

Posted by Redneckville


Again and again and again for the umteenth time you have assigned positions to me that don't exist.

You are a lost cause....and a fucking liar to boot.

"Why do we freaken care?"

Because we want to protect our children against the fundamentalist rants of someone who is supposed to be an "educator," not a freaken evangelist.

BTW,Redneckville, your posts are superb! Keep these fundies spinning on their pointed heads.

When you realize that horses, zebras, and donkeys are probably descended from the horse-like "kind", Noah did not have to carry two sets of each such animal. Also, dogs, wolves, and coyotes are probably from a single canine "kind", so hundreds of different dogs were not needed.

Posted by Marie3

Are you making a case for Evolution?

Hell, all Noah needed was a few organic molecules from comets and a lot of time.
Makes the boat smaller.

Interesting... I didn't see any attention given to the literally hundreds of instances where crazy professors were proselytizing the religion of Liberalism in schools and penalizing students who didn't agree with them - but one crazy professor preaches Chritianity and it's ACLU to the rescue!!!

Interesting... I didn't see any attention given to the literally hundreds of instances where crazy professors were proselytizing the religion of Liberalism in schools and penalizing students who didn't agree with them - but one crazy professor preaches Chritianity and it's ACLU to the rescue!!!

Posted by Patriot at 2007-02-21 06:18 PM | Reply

Pat,

Can you link to an example that you cite where the 'libs' phoned in DEATH THREATS against the person who complained about the professor?

Interesting... I didn't see any attention given to the literally hundreds of instances where crazy professors were proselytizing the religion of Liberalism in schools and penalizing students who didn't agree with them - but one crazy professor preaches Chritianity and it's ACLU to the rescue!!!

I don't think this guy is a professor (usually someone with a PhD who teaches in a college). Isn't he a secondary ed teacher? I know they say college professors tend to be liberals, but is this also true of public school teachers?

"I didn't see any attention given to the literally hundreds of instances where crazy professors were proselytizing the religion of Liberalism..."

That you refer to liberalism as a "religion" only goes to show what an idiot you are.

That you refer to liberalism as a "religion" only goes to show what an idiot you are.

That's Right. All you have to do is dial in the Savage Nation and you'll find that it is a Mental Disorder.

Like the evangelicals who love the authoritarian life don't have some serious issues, most notably cowardice, persecution of others, and a wide range of perverse behavior. No wonder they cling to the "Thou Shall Not." It's the only way for them to hide their true selves in a decent society.

"Was the ark large enough to hold all the required animals?"

There are lots of problems here, and not just with the severe underestimation of animals and the need to believe in evolution. Just a few:

1. Many animals annually consume food requiring more room than the animal itself (Elephants, for example, about 8-9 times their size/year). Think about the space you take up. Now think about the space a year's worth of your food takes up.

2. In measuring the Ark, making it seaworthy would require it to be smaller at the base than the decks. This is true even for flat-bottomed boats, which probably wouldn't be seaworthy given the weight it's expected to bear. Therefore, the lower deck's assumed measurements are too large.

3. The measurements assume no space whatsoever is taken up for any boat functions. Anyone here ever been on a boat which didn't take up any space to operate?

4. If every living thing off the Ark died, as we're told, how did the herbavores survive once back on dry, barren land?

5. Along that vein, how did the carnivores survive once off the boat...or is that why there are no Unicorns?

6. The earliest anyone pegs "the great flood" is about 4800-4900 BC. How did Noah get the polar bears, since he had to travel to a theretofore unknown part of the world? Of course, the polar bears---which we know were in the Arctic Circle before that time---somehow not only got to Noah in the Middle East, but then migrated back to the Arctic Circle after nearly a year in the tropics.

7. This assumes two of each. The bible says two of some, seven of others.

8. God tells Noah to make one (yes, one) small window, 18 inches square, for ventilation. Anyone care to do the oxygen requirements for a 450 x 150 deck loaded with animals?

9. The animals borded the Ark "in the selfsame day". That's over 11 a minute, even at only 16,000.

10. Olive trees can't survive in super-high altitudes, and water over the highest peak would certainly kill them all. Yet seven days after the rains stop, a dove brings back an olive branch, supposed "proof" of dry land. Olive trees don't grow in a week.

It's a fairy tale, folks....

When you realize that horses, zebras, and donkeys are probably descended from the horse-like "kind", Noah did not have to carry two sets of each such animal. Also, dogs, wolves, and coyotes are probably from a single canine "kind", so hundreds of different dogs were not needed.

Posted by Marie3

So that means that evolution creates a new species of beetle every two weeks. Since the planet is only 6,000 years old, they started with only two beetles and there are now over 350,000 species of beetles? That is some quick evolving.

How come there is no record of the flood in teh geological record?? Still NO ONE has explained that to me.

It's a fairy tale, folks....

Posted by Danforth



Oh no.

"It's turtles all the way down."

How does one explain the presence of hundreds of thousands of years of sedimentary rock layers in the geologic profile of the earth. Since science has shown it takes an extremely long time to create teh necessary erosion conditions to create sediment layers, that would equate to millions of years of erosionary(is that a word) conditions.

If it's not a word it should be.......

"Was the ark large enough "

We're here, aren't we?

But the population bomb keeps on ticking, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Cognitive dissonance, my my my.

"Hell, all Noah needed was a few organic molecules from comets and a lot of time.
Makes the boat smaller."

nice post, Funny flag

as my friend from dumb and dumber would say "I like it ALOT."

Everyone reading this began as a single DNA molecule, a blastocyst with a 50-50 chance, etc.

But was it conscious?
no

Only a small fraction of beings are conscious, and they aren't all humans.

Actually only a small fraction of humans are conscious.

Have you watched the cat and the piano yet?

Why is the literal truth funny?

Make no mistake,
I love to laugh.

We are stardust.
Literally.

Actually only a small fraction of humans are conscious.

We're conscious; we're just not conscious about our consciousness.

"How does one explain the presence of hundreds of thousands of years of sedimentary rock layers in the geologic profile of the earth. "

Let alone millions, even billions.
And that's just here on this ball of silicon, and a few other elements.

The God of Abraham placed all those myriad pieces of evidence there to test your faith.

I'm with Tom Paine, creation is right in front of me.

When I was in Catholic school, I used to try to get the nuns to say that if you weren't Catholic, you were going to hell. Couldn't get them to say it and they honestly seemed not to believe it. I also tried getting to say that non-Christians were going to hell, and that never worked either. That was 25 years ago.

This guy has got to be a real nutjob if he's babbling like this in public schools. Apparently the whole school district is run by lunatics because they seem to be supporting him.

"just not conscious about our consciousness"

When you get there, that's art.

Is is is.
Love loves love.

The ego is an illusion.
There is no afterlife.
Christianity and Islam have been terribly destructive. Why? They promise immortality to the ego.
Initial data indicate water planets are rare.
Extremism in the defense of consciousness is no vice.

"But the population bomb keeps on ticking, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera."

That bomb exists only in your small-minded circle.

We are stardust
We are golden
We are million year old carbon
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden

"We're conscious"

Posted by Gal_Tuesday

How do you know that?

I had friends writing AI scripts three decades ago. They're dead.

Most posts here are way more stupid than the shell scripts they left.

Which is which?

In answer to your question, no, I don't believe in evolution. I do believe in genetic engineering, like, when you breed different types of dogs, which is easily demonstratable by just breeding for certain traits within a few dog generations.

You can make a variety of dogs. But you can't make a dog become a turtle or any other animal. Belief in evolution requires that you believe that one animal can become another animal - a fish can become a duck, or what have you. Totally undemonstrable, scientifically speaking.

This answers all the beetle questions and such.

Sedimentary rock layers, all those arguments, there are creationist arguments for those things, too.

I posted the info about all necessary creatures making it onto the ark because about 100 posts ago someone said they did the math and it couldn't possibly be done.

Whether you like the researcher or not, mathematically, he is correct. They animals can fit.

This teacher was being vilified for saying that, so I was defending him on that point. I'm not sure where it fit into his class curriculum, and I'm not sure he should have brought it up, unless it had to do with some history lesson. But I'll let his employers figure that one out.

Since evolution is the foundation of all biology and medicine, Marie is either,

1. a troll

2. an imbecilic moron

Phunny Phlagg phor Marie!!!! (TM)

Which is which?

Which which is which? :-)

"Whether you like the researcher or not, mathematically, he is correct. They animals can fit."

They just can't move, eat, or breathe. Also, they can't surviven in a barren land after nearly a year on the Ark, and every carnivore's meal would make another species extinct.

Plus, there are no calculations of space taken for operation of the Ark.

"Whether you like the researcher or not..."

The "researcher." And the "teacher."

Interesting euphemisms for someone who didn't even publish under his real name:

An Argentinosaurus was 130 feet long.

A Diplodocus was 90 feet long, as was an Apatosaurus.

Even a T-Rex was 40 feet long.

So how many of these were on the Ark, and were they actually caged?

Burt go fuck yourself. If you didn't bother to read my posts where I CLEARLY acknowledge the difference, then you are an asshole.

I'm tellin' you, Dan, them DNA molecules are useful.

One of my cows had an early still-birth.
She defiantly defended the dead calf against the buzzards.

The other cows came up to offer condolences, the kids in groups.

They're social. They're conscious.

Carcass disappeared overnight; Cougar.


OTOH
They won't be solving any differential equations anytime soon.

I will repeat something I said on another thread: "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is to talk sense to a fundamentalist."
I have been a public secondary school teacher (Honors and AP English) for thirty years now, and I have found liberals to be a vast minority. At my school, I think we could all fit comfortably in my car for a smoke. The conservative element forms the loud, vociferous herd. I know they brow-beat students who hold different political views or who-God forbid-think in a way that diverges from what the neocons see as the norm.
In closing, where exactly can I find the church of liberalism? Is it tax exempt, like all those other churches? Who are the clergy? What hymns do they sing? If I join, can I knock on strangers' doors at 8:00 AM Saturday to pass out pamphlets?
"The religion of liberalism" is about the most dumb-ass thing I've read in a long time.

Ratso left one thing out. His school has over 3000 students.

Due to length concerns, the publishers of the Bible left out a few key pieces of information regarding Noah, his Ark and the Dinosaurs.

In never before seen transcripts we have learned that God commissioned Noah to build Ninety Nine Dingy Arks that were towed behind the main Ark.

The purpose of the Dingy Arks was to keep the more agressive and dangerous species away from the general Ark population.

So now you know how the Dinosaurs survived.

In other news...

We could learn a few things from this kid. Like what the courage to stand up for ones beliefs entails outside of the Blogsphere. Good for him.

Bad for the cowards harassing and making death threats to he and his family. Bad to the school board for being too stupid, ridgid and cowardly to do the right thing. And way bad to the teacher for espousing this horse hockey in the class room of a public school.

"Why do we freaken care?"

Because we want to protect our children against the fundamentalist rants of someone who is supposed to be an "educator," not a freaken evangelist.

BTW,Redneckville, your posts are superb! Keep these fundies spinning on their pointed heads.

Posted by ratso2


He should be repremanded by his boss, but keep this kind of crap out of the courts. It's a waste of time.

He should be fired, the rules are clear and have been clear for longer than his life time.

He should be repremanded by his boss, but keep this kind of crap out of the courts. It's a waste of time.

Posted by LastAmerican

That's exactly the point. Things didn't happen as they should, so they're taking it to the next level. That's what the courts are for. They didn't go to court first.

All people working on the government dime should be taped. If they aren't doing their job, find someone who will.

Posted by JOE at 2007-02-20 08:57 PM | Reply |

All people working should be taped by their employers.

All people driving should be taped by the DMV.

All people taking out trash should be taped by the Dept of Streets and Sanitation.

All people shoveling their driveway should be taped be the highway department.

Of course, in Bushworld this is the answer. The hell with your right to privacy.... after all Rob says it is a "minor" freedom anyhow.

Trees,

You know I always did wonder how Noah kept the Lions, Jaguars, Leopards and Tigers from eating all the other animals, including Noah himself.

Thanks for clarifying that for me.

***Student Catches Hell for Recording Teacher***

........what the Taliban do in Allfuctupistan is the same thing the Christian evangelicals are trying to do here..........

...........Christian Taliban............

"Hmmm. A few months ago the American Civil Liberties Union went on record against the United States government recording inbound phone calls from suspected terrorists, and argued that in the event the evidence appeared that justified an arrest, it should be disregarded because no warrant was obtained before taping the conversation, and is thereby unconstitutional.

But here, armed with a tape made by a student without the knowledge, let alone the permission, of the teacher, the ACLU stridently claims a violation of the Constitution by the school--NOT the student--and offered to join in a lawsuit.

Hard to keep up with the ACLU, which seems to flip flop, given their mood. Until you ask, where are they likely to make the most money? And then you know."

Hey genius, there's a world of difference between the U.S. Government eavesdropping on phone calls TO WHICH THEY ARE NOT A PARTY OF, and that of a person taping in first person a conversation that they ARE a party of.

You don't need to get a warrant TO TAPE YOUR OWN DAMNED CONVERSATION, MORON!!!

Think cops need to get warrants to film "COPS" the TV show? Think cops need to get warrants to film and audio tape (routinely across the country) traffic stops? No, because they are filming and taping things LIVE, and KNOW they are being taped!

PLUS, don't forget that Schools are a public place where there is NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY!! Thats what its all about... you expect privacy talking you to your friend in Saudi Arabia over a private phone line.... you don't and CAN'T when talking to your teacher in public school!!!

But nice try at a deflection, as if this is even REMOTELY related to illegal wiretapping.

Well, it's refreshing to see so many liberals that see inherent problems with public education, in that the state is pushing its agenda when it educates the youngest citizens of our country. Too bad, it's only because the liberals here just don't like the SUBJECT of the matter presented here, and don't think critically about the principles of state-sponsored governent monopoly education and what a violation they can be of the conscience.

Liberals supporting the state controlling what we think, is what they embrace in public education here on drudgeretort.

The other thing I don't get is how many of anti-christian types get all worked up over this, if there's not any truth to the Bible and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

When I debate someone about the book of Mormon, for example, my blood pressure doesn't get raised at all, because it's total horse dung that is not supported historically, archaeologically, or legally. No cultures, languages, coins, specific geographic locations in the Book of Mormon have EVER been found. AS OPPOSED TO THE BIBLE, where thousands have been found (languages, coinage, specific cities), and which the legal/historical evidence backs up such occurances as the crucifixion and the resurrection.

If Jesus didn't raise from the dead, just produce a body and Christianity will truly cease to exist; the Bible even says so. Many have tried, but none successfully.

"Hmmm. A few months ago the American Civil Liberties Union went on record against the United States government recording inbound phone calls from suspected terrorists, and argued that in the event the evidence appeared that justified an arrest, it should be disregarded because no warrant was obtained before taping the conversation, and is thereby unconstitutional.

Sholagar is correct. The issue is the expectation of privacy. The government needs a warrant to record a private conversation.

But lets say that the suspected terrorist was out in a public square giving a lecture to other suspected terrorists.
The FBI would be perfectly within the Constitution to wander over with a recorder and tape the speech, and use it as evidence.

No warrant is needed where there is no expectation of privacy.

Kirk,

How can we produce the body of someone that never existed?

"Hmmm. A few months ago the American Civil Liberties Union went on record against the United States government recording inbound phone calls from suspected terrorists, and argued that in the event the evidence appeared that justified an arrest, it should be disregarded because no warrant was obtained before taping the conversation, and is thereby unconstitutional."

No expectation of privacy.

Not being used in court, yet.

But most importatntly, the kid ain't the government or an extension of it.

DOGMAN

If Jesus didn't raise from the dead, just produce a body and Christianity will truly cease to exist; the Bible even says so. Many have tried, but none successfully.

Posted by kirk

An argument brilliant in it's simplicity. I tell you what, I'll take that bet but only if you produce the body of Genghis Kahn and Julius Ceasar, oh and lets throw in Alexander the great just for good measure.

I'm Christian but that was just plain stupid.


DOGMAN

"If Jesus didn't raise from the dead, just produce a body and Christianity will truly cease to exist; the Bible even says so. Many have tried, but none successfully."

Whats even more brilliant in its simplicity, Dogman, is that its the perfect excuse.

"Body of Christ?!?! Errr, ummm, we can't show you that cause, ummm, he rose from the dead! Yeah thats the ticket! He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven! So theres your PROOF that he existed, BECAUSE you can't find any proof he existed!! HAH, take that! Reason your way out of THAT, scienceman!"

It's exhausting.

"Liberals supporting the state controlling what we think, is what they embrace in public education here on drudgeretort."

The difference being, I've never been woken up at 8:00 a.m. on a Sunday by evolutionists knocking on my door, trying to convert me.

If you are seriously suggesting that evolution is a religion and kids are being "indoctrinated" into it.....

...the publishers of the Bible left out a few key pieces of information...

Posted by TreesGoneWild at 2007-02-21 10:30 PM

Pretty much sums it up for me!

as for the subject of this thread...

The Schools District is in violation of creating a hostile environment and should be held accountable for that.

The student is in violation of school policy (a stupid policy but a policy none the less) and should be held accountable for that...just because we agree with him is no reason to let him off the hook.

Both should be held accountable. I am sure that the school has made a greater violation and would pay a higher price. Which is probably why they reacted the way they did.

If I was a student there I would probably have done the same thing...it would have been worth it...I would write a book and make a small fortune.

Ain't it great to be American?

"You can make a variety of dogs. But you can't make a dog become a turtle or any other animal. Belief in evolution requires that you believe that one animal can become another animal - a fish can become a duck, or what have you. Totally undemonstrable, scientifically speaking.

This answers all the beetle questions and such.

Sedimentary rock layers, all those arguments, there are creationist arguments for those things, too.

I posted the info about all necessary creatures making it onto the ark because about 100 posts ago someone said they did the math and it couldn't possibly be done.

Whether you like the researcher or not, mathematically, he is correct. They animals can fit."

Wow, you are hysterical. Your explanation does not justify teh beetle answer. When did genetic engineering start, right after Noah got off teh boat.

You have no answer for the sedimentary question because you don't understand it. Please show me one of your so-called examples??

Your definition of evolution is wrong, so you don't get it. Evolution doesn't say a bird becomes a man, it says through change and progression, sometimes at crawls and somtimes in leaps it moves. I have never seen it defined as one living creature turns into another(it's not the werewolf theory).

YOU say it's totally undemonstatable.

Fossil evidence demonstrates the presence of certain features(gills, tehn lungs, fins, then appendages, then teh opposible thumb, and teh evolution of countless internal organs, as well as that pesky tail humans have) and living creatures in an evolved pattern, do we have a complete fossil record, no, absurd to think that could ever happen.

No the animals can not fit. Your math is incorrect if you take into account the necassry food, the real numbers of animals(just like the book of lies says, 5 and 2), space to exercise and move about. It is just absurd. The know how to care for juveniles without parents as you are saying, teh ability to preserve cells ......so much nonsense it's ridiculous.

The animal kingdom is divided into about 30 phyla. The nine largest phyla contain the majority of species.
One phyla, the arthropods, which includes insects and spiders, constitutes about 75 percent of all known animal species. More than 900,000 arthropods have been described, and according to some estimates there may be more than five million more.
The number of known species for all animals other than arthropods is about 250,000.
The largest group within the phyla of arthropods and the most diverse class in all kingdoms, is insects. Over 750,000 have been described. Some suppose that there are perhaps as many as three million different species of insects in the world.
The most diverse family of insect is beetles, with over 375,000 types identified.
Other large families of insects include butterflies and moths (more than 100,000 species), bees and wasps (more than 20,000 species), and ants (about 10,000 species).
With over 30,000 known species, spiders, which are not insects, constitute one of the large families of other kinds of arthropods.
Only two other phyla within the animal kingdom, the roundworms and the mollusks, are known to contain more than 100,000 species. All other phyla generally have far less.
The dominant phyla on the planet, the vertebrates, consists of less than 50,000 known species. The number of fish species is estimated to be more than 20,000, bird species number approximately 8,700, reptiles about 6,000, mammals about 4,500, and amphibians about 2,500.
Within mammals, the rodents are the most varied order, with 34 families and more than 1,700 species.


I'd say the math is a bit off... and just how did those creatures get redistributed back to their secluded locations Galapagos Australia New Guinea, Indonesia, etc again? (no fair saying God works in mysterious ways...)

"historical evidence backs up such occurances as the crucifixion and the resurrection"

Then back it up, show me proof of the resurrection........I missed the video on youtube.

The student is in violation of school policy (a stupid policy but a policy none the less) and should be held accountable for that...just because we agree with him is no reason to let him off the hook.

Posted by donnerboy at 2007-02-22 05:26 PM

According to the article, they did not implement the policy until after the student turned in the tape.

So, it is still all on them.

Two additional things that I have not seen brought up in detail about the Noah's Ark problem are the issues of fresh water and reproduction.

Assuming that enough food could be provided, what about fresh water supplies? How much space and how much additional weight would be required? If it was a global flood, then the water raining down and the water they would be floating on would undoubtedly be sea water. You cannot drink sea water. Besides drinks, there are amphibious species that would not be able to surive the flood unless they were on the Ark, and they would also need the water asa habitat.

On reproduction, I know someone brought up the genetics of single pairs of animals repopulating the entire world, i.e. Adam & Eve, but what about the time on the Ark. Unless every animal species was seperately caged, they would reproduce, increasing the space, food and water requirements. In insects, this would be especially horrendous, as their numbers tend to increase exponentially.


Anyway, funny ass topic.

"I'd say the math is a bit off... and just how did those creatures get redistributed back to their secluded locations Galapagos Australia New Guinea, Indonesia, etc again? (no fair saying God works in mysterious ways...)?"

Not mysterious at all, just the sooper sekret Flying Jet Pod Arks.

Reproduction, where do you think the phrase "multiplying like bunnies" was born?

Fresh water? It was raining. *nods*

Ahhh thank you Trees!

now I understand...wink, wink, nod, nod.

Liberal Mongrel,

You only believe what you see on YouTube?

So that lets out all history prior to what, the 1900s?

"historical evidence backs up such occurances as the crucifixion and the resurrection"

No, it doesn't.

Only little, insecure minds need the reassurance of faux-evidence as proof of the Christ.

Those who believe have their faith and the truth in their hearts.

Claiming "historical evidence," like "proving" the capacity of the Ark, only denigrates the works of God. As if human "proof" can measure God's miracles.

Ultimately, it does faith no favor. In fact, it simply ridicules the true nature of the Lord.

But then again, this is the same mindset which sees images of the Lord in grilled cheese sandwiches.

Hans

Wow. You guys are still arguing about the authenticity of Genesis. Even many Catholics regard it as a myth, don't they?

Donner,

Glad I could help. We want to maintain accuracy now and as self appointed scrivner of the Editas Flooras Scrappas, it is my solemn duty to insure that every biblical story gets some air time.

"Here is some more reading on why the Ark is a preposterous idea."

"One cubic metre of pure water is one metric tonne."

Could you help me out here, MC? How is one cubic metre of water equal to a metric tonne?

M3,

Still waiting for your proof of why there are sedimentary rocks other than the one I offered.

How about the water dilema, can you explain where it all went(if enough was ever here to cover earth)??

"Next time, please use teh internets to look it up."

Ummm, that's what I used you for.

And btw, which internet should I use?

"historical evidence backs up such occurances as the crucifixion and the resurrection"

Huh?

Must be a troll.

Happy,

I would suggest the sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooow one for fundies.

"Happy,

Surely:"

Who's Surely?? And didn't you spell her name wrong?

"I would suggest..."

Really? So there's a fast and a slow internet? What other kinds of awesome technology can you teach me?

Happy,

Ever heard of those really cool Suicide Boothes?

You should try one out!

"Ever heard of those really cool Suicide Boothes?

You should try one out!"

That's just not nice.

"Ever heard of those really..."

As I figured. You know as much about technology as you do religion.

Later, loser.

If Jesus didn't raise from the dead, just produce a body and Christianity will truly cease to exist
Posted by kirk

An argument brilliant in it's simplicity. I tell you what, I'll take that bet but only if you produce the body of Genghis Kahn and Julius Ceasar, oh and lets throw in Alexander the great just for good measure.
Posted by dogman at 2007-02-22 01:58 PM | Reply

Are you serious? I think that historically there remains can be located verifiably. Though I've never been there myself. You do believe in history and archaology though, right? You do think that certain things can be known with relative certainy from antiquity don't you?

I mean, c'mon, you skeptics and freethinkers...if the best you can do is throw up your hands and say "well, hell's bells Margaret, how can we know ANYTHING FOR SURE" there's not even much of a point in discussing this.

"I think that historically there remains can be located verifiably."

Good luck:

"Why do so many posters here open their mouths (their keyboards) without checking even the most basic facts?"

That is a rhetorical question... no specific answer actually required.

Hans

"Body of Christ?!?! Errr, ummm, we can't show you that cause, ummm, he rose from the dead! Yeah thats the ticket! He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven! So theres your PROOF that he existed, BECAUSE you can't find any proof he existed!! HAH, take that! Reason your way out of THAT, scienceman!"

It's exhausting.

Posted by Sholagar at 2007-02-22 02:12 PM | Reply

Really? So DO YOU believe there are facts that actually *can* be authenticated from history, or demonstrated false with overwhelming evidence. If not, you don't even belong in a discussion about "facts" in dispute in antiquity.

If someone doesn't even want to look at the evidence, they aren't allowed on a jury. I'm pretty fair about giving people the benefit of the doubt here, but you've got to bring SOMETHING other than an excuse to the table.

but you've got to bring SOMETHING other than an excuse to the table.

Posted by kirk

Isn't that what the Christians need to do?

Hans, Apparently a less than 1 second search on google showed that there is some dispute on Genghis Khan's burial, but some candidates.

TFDNIHILIST, the evidence is plentiful. Do just a little research and you'll find out.

For starters:
Dr. Gary Habermas
Dr. William Lane Craig
Dr. J.P. Moreland

or go to ANY library and just *begin* trying to do an objective historical study and you'll see what I mean. Objective scientific study really comes to great conclusions, and I think it's already out there.

BTW, please cite EXACTLY what excuse a Christian has made.

Oh, and Hans, you listed Julius Caesar with accompanying links, so don't ask me.

Do YOU believe in science and historical evidence? C'mon, honestly or do you just believe whatever you want to? I mean, I recently asked you if I should just "take your word" as a final authority and you said "yes." If *that's* how you do things, I doubt we'll ever have an intelligent discussion about actual "evidence" of anything.

Get off your butt and look it up at ANY library. Do I need to tell you about a guy named Abraham Lincoln and the 16th President of the US too?

Get off your butt and look it up at ANY library. Do I need to tell you about a guy named Abraham Lincoln and the 16th President of the US too?

"I recently asked you if I should just "take your word" as a final authority and you said "yes."

Care to post your verbatim quote (along with a link to it) where you asked me that?

Care to post my verbatim reply (along with a link to it) where I replied as you claim?

Verbatim (with links), as in the examples I'll give you now:

I checked your user blog for the time period between 2007-02-23 12:26 AM and 2007-01-12 01:04 PM (as far back as I could go on your blog), and the word "word" appears in only three (3) of your posts:

Here:

"Hans, Apparently a less than 1 second search on google showed that there is some dispute on Genghis Khan's burial, but some candidates."

Yes, but you were the one who said:

"I think that historically there remains can be located verifiably."

Hans,

The post in question was about 2 months ago re: abortion, and it is on my old computer. Lame excuse? Happens to be true. Don't recall. You kept saying that fetuses are not a life, and wouldn't give ANY authority to base that on. When I asked FURTHER, you said that I should just "take your word" or something like that. Sorry, I've got alot of crap to do today, and I'm not gonna try to figure out how to chase down a minor point from weeks ago. Do you think you would have said something like that? I'd tell you the same if we were talking about me.

Re: Genghis Khan, that was someone's else attempt to show that we can not know for certain about particulars from antiquity, which is true often. HOWEVER, the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ are EASILY verifiable or not historically. Look it up for yourself. The (wrath of) Khan issue is a distraction that I could care less about. If you want to look it up, be my guest.

BTW, do you think I'm a LIAR? If so, please tell me when I've lied? Have a good Friday.

"Lame excuse? Happens to be true. Don't recall."

Yep... That's pretty lame.

You come along and make a supposed factual statement related to my veracity, claiming that I ...

Well, here's your exact quote:

"If so, please tell me when I've lied?"

Oh, okay, since you asked: