Lets see,

They are rich, get paid huge amounts for playing a game, they get into a fight, which means nothing on the world stage and they get front page exposure. Must be a nice life..

Great example!

This is why it's so important that children see their own parents as role models.

I know Doc, isn't that pathetic?!

My three older children have always been involved in sports....three or four a year and I have seen some parents flip out over bad calls, coaches not playing their kids, at people in the stands.

Then these same parents wonder why their children behave the way they do??

Amazing!

They need to lose 1/2 their salaries for each fight and the NBA need to start truely enforcing the rules of the game far more strictly so the talented players with finese can play. The macho you can't dunk over me or I'll bring yoy down attitude is a thugs man way of playing-jungle ball as it's commonly called

They shouldn't be allowed to play....period. And they should be benched for a lot longer than just a few games.

Wasn't a very good fight imho, too many guys pushing and interfering with what could have been a good ole' ass whooping. At least give fans a show, they pay good money for those tickets.

" At least give fans a show, they pay good money for those tickets."

If I wanted for my child to watch physical abuse at a sporting event, I'd take them to a boxing match.

People do not pay to watch basketball players to shove, hit and punch each other. They pay to watch basketball.

You're sick.

The entire "thug culture," with jailhouse fashions, violence, tattoos, and foul language is a subset of American culture. Sports, music, and cinema are permeated by this bad behavior. Pointless violence, racism, homophobia and misogynism by athletes should not be tolerated. For that matter, the same criteria may also be applied to other celebrities, besides sport stars, in public, outside of their actual performances.

The First Amendment guarantees Freedom of Speech, but I may not be compelled to view or listen to it!

What can be done? On an individual basis, stop rewarding egregious anti-social acts by spending your money elsewhere. Money is the only language the entertainment and sport industries understand.

"What can be done? On an individual basis, stop rewarding egregious anti-social acts by spending your money elsewhere. Money is the only language the entertainment and sport industries understand."

Excellent thought!

"Money is the only language the entertainment and sport industries understand."

No shit. Why do people even bother going to professional games? And then bitch about the high salaries, inequity, etc.

Minnesota is the classical example. They keep threatening to have the taxpayers build their stadiums or they'll "up and leave".

I remember listening to Harmon Killebrew talk about his baseball playing days. All those guys needed off-season jobs to get through the year. How refreshing was that?.

And all these toughguys can't put a team together that can beat friggin' Greece. This NBA violence is the reason I watch football.

What I wat to know is why aren't they arrested? If all of the Drudgies were in a room and a brawl broke out, wouldn't WE be arrested? I thought it was still illegal to kick the shit outta each other...

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. These players are setting a poor example for our younger athletes. Owners and the league should not tolerate fighting under any circumstances. Since fines do not do enough to discourage bad behaviour, I say suspend them from the game for the remainder of the season. If it happens at the end of the season, then suspend them for the remainder of this season plus the next. Maybe this would teach them a thing or two about civility. Of course, the team would be allowed to find new players to fill the voids.

I agree with John47.

100 years ago, this nation was a nation of participators. We played sports, we made music, we created and viewed and discussed art and politics.

By 1950 or so, we became a nation of spectators, which watched sports and watched music and watched politicians from our homes.

Now, we have become a nation of vicarious observers, with life as video game and pundit talking heads and crap for entertainment and music. We even spend money on the strange hyper-reality of "fantasy football" et al. It's our money to spend as we see fit, but I won't spend any of mine on the oxymoron of "professional sports."

Just waiting for the day when one of those thugs, or their baseball or football counterparts, pulls a gun during a melee. Most of these guys today are, unfortunately, just a bunch of gangster thugs who happen to get paid millions of dollars.

Just waiting for the day when one of those thugs, or their baseball or football counterparts, pulls a gun during a melee. Most of these guys today are, unfortunately, just a bunch of gangster thugs who happen to get paid millions of dollars.

Posted by DarkSwan at 2006-12-17 12:57 PM

Now, we have become a nation of vicarious observers, with life as video game and pundit talking heads and crap for entertainment and music.


Which is why I don't watch any professional sports. It's grown men getting paid to play a childs game...and they have the nerve to whine and moan that they aren't treated special or go on strike?

I'll watch college or highschool ball where, for the most part, the kids are playing for the love of the game.

This is a logical consequence of what happens when you try to codify competition. Our addiction to vicariously watching others compete in our name is an updated extension of the gladiatorial spectacles promoted in ancient times. The Mayans had a game that was played non-stop, until one team scored. The losers were then executed. The Iroquois had a lovely game that was played with the heads of their fallen foes that is still played today (sans heads, of course). Team sport competition is thinly disguised, sanctioned ritual combat, so why get your dainties in a twist when episodes like this occur? We subconsciously want them to fight...we pay handsomly for it. My desire to understanding this little wrinkle in the human condition is why I gravitated to kendo. There is only victory...defeat means death.

If you can get into the head of your opponent, you can defeat him before the first blow is stuck. For example: the recent incident of Mr. Owens spitting into the face of the Falcon D-back as they were lining up for the first snap of the game, no doubt resulted in the success he had that day against a foe that had bested him in a previous game. Sometimes you just have to get a little payback, and brawls like the one that occured at the basketball game are inevitable.

To (probably) mis-quote St. Rodney..."I once went to a basketball game and a hockey game broke out." Fine the shit out of the miscreants..or stop attending...or stay home and read a book. It matters not as there will always be occasional incidences of boorish behavior that occur at these events that gravitate outside of the lines we draw.

Maybe the next time one of these over-paid athletes starts a brawl, he should just be banned from the sport. Maybe then we'll see sport instead of bratty behavior.

Then again, how many "sports fans" tune in specifically to see the atheletes fight?

Hey Great Idea 100 thousand dollar fine for each Brawler to their Favourate Homeless/Food pantry. Oh and 10 missed games.

Larry

The macho you can't dunk over me or I'll bring yoy down attitude is a thugs man way of playing-jungle ball as it's commonly called

Posted by Harrier at 2006-12-17 09:29 AM

You never watched McHale or Laimbeer play did you? Laimbeer was involved in no less that 6 fights in the 1989 championship season. He had a fistfight with Larry fricking Bird for crying out loud. Goonery and fights have been a part of the game since the 50's. You're just noticing now because there's six 24 hour sports news channels showing highlights from evey game and the players hairdo's and tattos scare you.

I thought it was still illegal to kick the shit outta each other...

Posted by Shredder at 2006-12-17 10:53 AM
You don't watch Hockey do you? I've seen brawls at COLLEGE hockey game.

This is a logical consequence of what happens when you try to codify competition.

This is the most intelligent post in this thread so far.

I'm a huge sports fan, but I recognize the realist that our organized team sports are in many ways antithetical to "civilized" behavior. Physical competitions are ultimately about imposing yourself on your competition. It's about dominance and forcing the competitors into submission. Be it a 100 yard dash, or ultimate fighting or a Man U soccer game. At the highest levels of competition the contests are decided by the physical expression of force of will. Sometimes the competition to exert that dominace creates anger and frustration that takes the confrontatition beyond the boundaries of the rules.

This is gladiators and lions stuff. It's the same instinctual and adrenaline responses as and fight or flight situation, and these guys make it to the highest level of competition because thier fight instinct ALWAYS wins.

Competitors just aren't normal sociable people. In the course of their livelihood they operate in a different world between the white lines where every "civilized" impulse that has been conditioned into us is counterproductive to success. I see this same behavior in investment bankers and ceo's their arena is just different, and they do a different kind of violence to one another.

That said, Carmello Anthony is a douchebag of the highest order and thre a pansy ass suckerpunch after the hostiites had been almost extingushed, then he ran from a 5'4" nate robinson (who would have kicked his ass.) Suspensions are due, fines are due yes, but this wasn't the apocalypse. This was a bunch of young men in a charged physically confrontational setting erupting out of control. Something like 2000 professional basketball games are played in every season schedule without violent incident. So occasionally copetition's true ugly nature rears it's head.

If you don't like it, don't watch and don't pay for it.

Hey Great Idea 100 thousand dollar fine for each Brawler to their Favourate Homeless/Food pantry.

Professional athletes as an employment category contribute a higher percentage of their earnings to charity than any other employment category. Basketball players are amongst the highest.

Every one of these guys who has a multi year contract is supporting schools and foundations and improvement projects in their original home communities along with their current home cities.

This myth that athletes are greedy is horsepucky. yes, they argue with ownership about how the fruits of their labors should be split up between ownership vs. talent (you don't think the owners are going to lower ticket prices if the players ask for less money do you?) but they give freely and extravagantly to charity, of their property and time.

To Leadbelly, I guess you missed my point altogether. For some reason you appear upset, I indicated if refs let people play jungle ball like thugs, the game will see more fights for no reason. Your recent post simply takes it further and proves my point. I'm not sure I understand your reasoning

The elephant in the room for NBA commisioner David Stern is the bastard culture that controls his league. These guys have had no father in their lives so they have never been disciplined or punished for bad behavior. They think they can do whatever they want.

Until Black leadership understands that black women need to grasp the concept of birth control nothing will ever change. Your not going to stop black men from fucking women and not giving a shit. The only hope is better education about birth control

this "rap culture" has taken over most pro sports and I'm sick of it. These guys could give a rat's ass about the fans or the city that supports their salary and life style.

"Until Black leadership understands that black women need to grasp the concept of birth control..."

Far be it to expect a man, black or not, to "grasp the concept of birth control", right Mark??

The problem with men today, pro athletes or not, is that they don't take responsibility.

Your comment proves that.

First, did anyone happen to see the video of a fan melee before a basketball game in Serbia(?) just a week or so ago? Fans were throwing chairs, flares, and whatever wasn't tied down at each other without a player in sight.

Is this the fault of the "hip-hop" culture or some lack of male role models? Of course not. Fighting has been a part of athletic contests since they became so important to the cultural zeitgeist. In my eyes the problem is one of "respect", and this word is bandied about with far too much alacrity that's its context in competition has almost been lost. The individual players want "respect" for their talents and abilities. The fans want "respect" for their allegiance to the home team. But the respect which often goes missing is the one for the way the contests are supposed to be conducted, and often aren't due to the seeping influence of the other two.

The Knicks, rightly or wrongly, felt "disrespected" that the Nuggets were still playing a 20-point game with their starters after the Knicks had already capitulated. The Nugget player had already made a "dunk contest" style breakaway, and the Knicks didn't want their fans to have to witness another one. In no way does this mitigate the flagrant foul, but it explains why it occured.

The bottom line is this: all athletes should respect the essence of competition more than they should personal or collective slights perceived through legal competition. If a team or player is unhappy with the legal conduct of an opponent, then they should do something about it within the construct of the game, not by resorting to violence as their weapon of choice.

Lastly, it is completely ignorant to assign cultural blame to fighting in sporting events, when some of the worst occurances in history have involved or included antagonists of all colors, not just black Americans. Perception of manhood is universal, and the adrenaline of competition often drives it nearer the surface than most like to admit. But make no bones, this is a part of the game just like every other, and every once and a while it spills over onto the court through the actions of passionate players. Punishments will be dealt out, and we'll move on...just like the players always do right after such incidents.

" it is completely ignorant to assign cultural blame to fighting in sporting events"

Agreed.

Carmello Anthony is such a pussy. He suckered that dude and literally ran away.

Some thug he is...What a snatch.

this "rap culture" has taken over most pro sports and I'm sick of it. These guys could give a rat's ass about the fans or the city that supports their salary and life style.

Posted by Maverick at 2006-12-18 09:23 AM

I don't remember Romanowski wearing cornrows or poping up in 50 cent videos. This isn't a result of "rap culture." it's a result of the true "unsportsmanlike" nature of competition when the stakes are raised this high by the ridiculous sums of money and the public exposure involved.

And, owners don't give a crap about your cities either. It's not just the athletes. Fans are mistaken to believe that they are entitled to anything more than entertainment value for thier dollars spent. Loyalty? What exactly have you "done" for the guys who break and bash their bodies for a living to think they owe you some loyalty? You're not entitled. Stop electing local politicians who will give away the store in bond issues or tax breaks to bribe a sports franchise that will only really enrich thier developer friends who build the stadiums on the public dime. You're being taken for a ride, and the athletes aren't even the high hog at the trough.

Carmello Anthony is such a pussy. He suckered that dude and literally ran away.

Some thug he is...What a snatch.

Posted by 101Chairborne at 2006-12-18 11:50 AM

Word.

Word.

Posted by leadbelly at 2006-12-18 11:52 AM | Reply


I wonder what his "hit and run" will do for his endorsements and "street cred"?
Have you (or anyone else for that matter) heard anyone even comment on the fact that he left skidmarks on the court after throwing that punch?
I have only seen clips of the fight and the suckerpunch but haven't seen any discussion on it. That has got to be frigging embarrassing for him because you know damn well that his teammates know about that and so do the other NBA'ers...He isn't going to live that down I hope.

" it is completely ignorant to assign cultural blame to fighting in sporting events"--- i cant agree.

todays american culture is all about bling, getting paid, repecting me or else ill get violent with you. we lost the battle of the ego and now everybody is a superstar that cant be dissed.if thats all kids hear and see in there music and movies than ofcourse they will grow up to be idiots who think violence and ego is needed to earn respect.

but at the same time theres players like ladainlian tomlinson who doesn't showboat, doesn't dance like an idiot when he scores and wont talk smack to the press.... LT is an anomoly in todays bling society but proof that it can be done...even by somebody who is considered the best player in football.

i blame mtv and the coaches of these kids who tell them year after year that they can never accept defeat....even our president is an ego based idiot who cant accept defeat, thinks he is never wrong and uses wiolence to prove he is right...and he had a father and is white mark610999

To Leadbelly, I guess you missed my point altogether. For some reason you appear upset, I indicated if refs let people play jungle ball like thugs, the game will see more fights for no reason. Your recent post simply takes it further and proves my point. I'm not sure I understand your reasoning

Posted by Harrier at 2006-12-18 01:04 AM

Harrier. I'm not really "upset" I'm just making an opposing case because I have a different perspective on pro athletics than your typical fan.

When I began to practice as an investment advisor, my niche was with pro athletes. I grew up playing my sports at a pretty high level and I shared locker rooms and fields with a number of guys who "made it." I leveraged those connections into a pretty substantial book of business and though I sold that practice I still know quite a few people in the business (and make no mistake it is a business.) By FAR the majority of these guys are good people who are positive influences in their families and communities. The exceptions make the news but for the most part these are young men who have achieved a level of excellence and are being rewarded by the marketplace. (To the tune of about 50% of total revenues.) When I solicited a client, you know what I led with? Charitable giving strategies. That is the primary lifetime financial goal for most of these guys (a big car and some bling are pretty meaningless youthfull indulgences when compared o how much money is given away.) They want to free their school, their youth sports programs, their family, thier neighborhood and their friends from the effects of poverty that infromed so many of thier lives.

The trappings of urban culture and struggle produce a number of positive motivations and actions that go unnoticed because droning-on, moralizing news stories about rich kids buying books, sports equipment or computers for kids are channel changers.

Take a look at the lawyers or doctors or stockbrokers you know. If you examine a group of 10 million dollar producers under the age of 30, you'll find one who should be brought up on ethical violations, two who use drugs, two whoremongers and a least one wifebeater in the group. They just don't have 24 news coverage and their competitions aren't televised. This is how young men of excess are. They make youthful indiscretions, they think themselves invulnerable and all powerful, and for the most part they grow out of it. But they get to do it with privacy. Pro athletes don't get that luxury. How would you have been judged if your 20's had been televised?

And again, MOST pro athletes get through thier entire careers without a blip on the radar.

My point is not to be "upset." My point is to try to put this view in perspective. These incidents, and negative behavior amonsgt athletes is dramatically overblown. I'm not saying any of it is excused, but the negative incidents are the same behavior patterns that all competitively driven males exhibit in roughly similar proportions.

101,
I am as you know a tremendous dork, so I participate in some sports dicussion groups for my favorite teams. The sports blogosphere is taking pretty much the same view that Mello is a gigantic vagina. But it is worth noting, that Nate Robinson is probably the scariest 5'3" dude in the history of the world. I'd run from him also. He's like an ultimate fighting midget.

101...

To me, your rendition of Melo is exactly why most NBA fights are mostly "sound and fury, signifying nothing." In the back of every player's mind is this reality: If I critically hurt another player (see Kermit Washington v. Rudy Tomjonovich) my career is over, and if I get hurt myself, there goes untold millions out the window!

Carmelo sticking and jumping back is pretty much de rigeur for NBA type skirmishes. Personally, I've wondered what would have been left of Ben Wallace had Ron Artest gone after him instead of the hapless fan in the stands of Detroit in 2004. Ron is so strong, its crazy, and we all know he's not wired quite right either.

Even the warrior Alonzo Mourning is reknown for sissy-slapping and air punching, while Van Gundy was hanging onto his leg like a rag-doll during the Knicks-Heat playoff brawl of last decade. I found it one of the funniest moments in NBA history.

i blame mtv and the coaches of these kids who tell them year after year that they can never accept defeat

This is a problem the coaching world is just now starting to talk about and to try to figure out how to reverse. Becuase of the "trickle down" economics of sports, there is too much at stake now for coaches to do their proper job (teach life lessons through sports.) Parents have SUED youth sports coaches for "disrupting" their child's athletic progress. High School coaches have faced sanctions and been fired for disciplining athletes at the expense of competitive success. NCAA coaches are now paid in the millions of dollars and they get fired for not going undefeated. The coaching fraternity used to be a calling, not a profession. It got professionalized, all the way down to the youth level to the terrible detrement of our craft.

The NCAA has just begun to discuss limiting coach salaries to try and change this course. Coaches need to be freed from the high stakes sports business if they are to return to their roots as teachers. I'd love to see the NCAA do away with scholarship athletics altogether. Let the sports networks take their 24 hour coverage and Mieneke Car Care bowls to a minor league structure OUTSIDE of academic institutions. Give student athletics back to STUDENT athletes and give kids who are not academically inclined a real athletics structure to chase their dream (and possibly work within if things don't pan out.) The current system of bringing minor league pro sports into the acedemic world has produced a bevy of unintended consequences all the way down to T-ball.

101...

To me, your rendition of Melo is exactly why most NBA fights are mostly "sound and fury, signifying nothing."
. . .
Even the warrior Alonzo Mourning is reknown for sissy-slapping and air punching, while Van Gundy was hanging onto his leg like a rag-doll during the Knicks-Heat playoff brawl of last decade. I found it one of the funniest moments in NBA history.

Posted by tonyroma at 2006-12-18 12:17 PM |

Tony,
More than worrying about consequences, the problem is most of these dudes can't fight for shit. The "big men" were all 6' plus from Jr. High school on. How many 13 year old kids are gonna be trying to brawl with the 6' pituitary giant in the lunchroom? Most of these guys haven't fought since they were 9 or 10 years old and don't know how. NBA big men in particular are gigantic pussies. Nate Robinson has problably been fighting bullies for most of the last 15 years. Nate would have rolled up Mello in a heartbeat, so I don't really blame him for running scared.

In the old days of baseball, for example, you didn't have the brawls you have today. Players policed themselves and there was an unwritten code of conduct.

Snort!

Try to tell Jackie Robinson about players "code of conduct."

This stuff has ALWAYS been there, you just didn't see as many games and there wasn't a video record of all the fights that happened over the ages.

Amen, Leadbelly, amen. My professional athlete friends would rather crawl over broken glass infected with bacteria than risk their careers in a fight. Everyone loses their temper, but most get it back just as quickly. D Stern ain't playing that game no more. Artest lost $5 million in 04/05. Trust me, that wasn't lost on the rank and file. What those who've never ventured behind the curtain don't realize is that most of the time those fighting are best of friends caught up in the moment. After the game, they're hanging out together at the restaurant or club.

Personally, I've wondered what would have been left of Ben Wallace had Ron Artest gone after him instead of the hapless fan in the stands of Detroit in 2004. Ron is so strong, its crazy, and we all know he's not wired quite right either.


Artest would have gotten the shit kicked out of him.

Flash forward, into another century.

Newspapers, magazines and TV screens are filled with images of NBA bad-boy Ron Artest rampaging into the stands of a basketball megaplex in Detroit, swinging at fans. He's enraged over getting hit with a cup hurled by a spectator. Fights swirl between fans and players. A chair sails through the air.

ESPN runs the footage again and again. USA Today calls it the "player-fan brawl that shocked the nation." It was, one fan tells the newspaper, "like the 9/11 of the NBA." Sports Illustrated calls it a "frightening wake-up call." The Chicago Sun-Times calls it an exemplar of an "escalating crisis of violence in sports."

It's as if nothing like this has ever happened before, as if, suddenly, shockingly, the once-glorious game is being trampled upon by a new-sprung wave of pretenders and barbarians.

In the mythology of American sports, there was a simpler time, a Golden Era, when ballplayers were humble and worked hard and played for the love of the game. In these innocent times, sports were all but unpolluted by greed, egos, cheating and violence.

The flip side of this mythos is the idea that today's athletes are different: arrogant, spoiled, lazy, overpaid, brutish.

It is a conviction built on historical amnesia, on a romanticized view of the past and an alarmist view of the present. It's an outlook that ignores these well-documented facts: Sports have always been violent. And they've always been populated by considerable numbers of players and fans who can't behave themselves.

All the elements of today's crisis in sports are there, in the record of more than a century of American sports: Riots on and off the field ... greed and commercialism and racism ... swellheaded, selfish superstars ... fans attacking players and players attacking fans ... beanballs and intentional cheap shots ... off-the-field misconduct by gun-wielding, wife-beating, law-breaking athletes ... fans hurling beer bottles, chair slats, knives, batteries, billiard balls and other missiles at players.

It's easy to find these facts, if you know where to look. Read Robert Creamer's biography of The Babe (the source of the tale of Ruth's 1922 tantrum), or thumb through Richard Scheinin's meticulous work, "Field of Screams: The Dark Underside of America's National Pastime" (which documents a long list of misdeeds by Ty Cobb and other baseballers).

Artest would have gotten the shit kicked out of him.

Posted by JeffJ at 2006-12-18 12:40 PM

Again, Ben probably hasn't had a real fight for more than 10 years. I'd put my money on Artest. Ron is just crazy enough to not be scared of Ben, and that's where most fights are decided.

Ron is just crazy enough to not be scared of Ben, and that's where most fights are decided.

Ron survived the battlegrounds of NYC housing projects without getting killed. He's had anger management issues since he was 7 or 8 years old. Former Pacers have personally told me that Ron is a "baby Shaq" and so physically strong no one stands up to him when he's "off". Ron's first love was boxing but he had to quit because he almost killed his competition. Then he discovered basketball.

Ron would have turned Ben into a black q-tip and then cleaned his ears with what was left.

Ron would have turned Ben into a black q-tip and then cleaned his ears with what was left.

Posted by tonyroma at 2006-12-18 12:58 PM

I'm thinking it would look roughly like Tyson vs. Spinks.

Hmm . . . no one wants to discuss a hundred years of sports violence dating back to the segregated era? Or Ty Cobb? Or the impact of coaches salaries? Better to just blam it all on the scary black kids I guess.

Ron Artest and Ben Wallace are both pussies! I could kick both of their asses by raising my eyebrows.

Sincerely,
Frank Cotton

Better to just blame it all on the scary black kids I guess.

Posted by leadbelly at 2006-12-18 01:07 PM | Reply

Look, I know for a fact it isn't the kids that scare us, it's the giant black adults that do! Nobody I know was afraid of Webster, Gary Coleman, or that black kid from Silver Spoons.
Sincerely,
White People

101
I'll bet Todd Bridges scares you though!

I'll bet Todd Bridges scares you though!

Posted by leadbelly at 2006-12-18 01:29 PM | Reply

Damn straight! I think he was pimping out "Kimberly Drummond" before he even hit puberty!

Damn straight! I think he was pimping out "Kimberly Drummond" before he even hit puberty!

And we all know what happened to her, don't we?

You know who scares me? Joey Porter.
No grillz or tats or cornrows, just 255 pounds of crazy eyed kung fu linebacker who likes to kiss men.

That dude scares me.

Ron would have turned Ben into a black q-tip and then cleaned his ears with what was left.

Posted by tonyroma at 2006-12-18 12:58 PM

Tony,
I know I am opposite of your political views... But sports also? You and I must not have watched the same clips. Artest ran away and hid from Wallace. Even after Wallace threw a towel and probably called him a little bitch, Artest still wanted nothing to do with Ben. He is lucky Ben's brother didn't get his hands on Ron "I only go after little white guys" Artest

You know who scares me? Joey Porter.
No grillz or tats or cornrows, just 255 pounds of crazy eyed kung fu linebacker who likes to kiss men.

That dude scares me.

Posted by leadbelly at 2006-12-18 02:29 PM


Would love to see Romanowski and Porter in a the octagon. My money is on Romanowski. Best damn linebacker to play the game since Butkus. No I didn't forget Singletary.

Best damn linebacker to play the game since Butkus?????

Did you forget Urlacher who is actually the best linebacker since Singletary. You also forgot Derrick Brooks who is the best outside linebacker since LT (NOT Homonowski.) You forgot Chad Brown, Zach Thomas, Teddy Bruschi, Ray Lewis, Junior Seau, Cornelius Bennett, Hardy Nickerson and Levon Kirkland. . .all of whom are/were better players than Romonowski.

The guy was a jackass. He was the dirtiest player of an era, but I don't recall too many "Romanowski led" defenses leading the league.

Crispee...

Ron didn't have a beef with Ben. He was trying his level best to stay under control and he did a great job until the beverage hit him.

Likely what you didn't see was Ben knock Ron into the basket standard on the previous possession without a foul even being called. Ron's "love-tap" on Ben was a measured response to Ben's instigations. That is why Ron allowed himself to be backed up by Tommy Nunez Jr., all 130 lbs. of him.

Ben gets frustrated when his teams get their asses kicked. He did the same thing to Scot Pollard later in the same season while the suspension-decimated Pacers kicked the Pistons butts again in the Palace. He bowed up and Pollard stood there saying "What you gonna do?" while Ben scowled and got called for a technical, Pollard laughed at him!

I'm telling you from personal experience, Ron is crazy and he's strong as an ox. No one in the league wants to fight Ron Artest unless they have a death wish. Stop and think, if Ron were a pussy, after all the havoc he's been accused of, don't you think someone would have stood up to him and exposed him?

To me the telling thing was this: When Ron went into the stands, Ben could have followed and brought him back had he wanted to. Ben didn't. Detroit fans would likely have stopped fighting had Detroit players gotten between them and the Pacers. He stood there while the Pacers tried to pull Ron from the morass as the fans and other Pacers exacerbated the situation. Ben's face afterwards told it all. He was pale as a black man can be while he looked over the carnage that his misplaced rage lit the fuse for, as chairs, bodies, and debris littered the floor of the Palace as his son stood there in tears, by his side after Ben's stupid brother joined the melee by punching selected Pacer players himself.

Lead,
I didn't forget anybody. You may not like the man, but don't take away his skill and committment. He was the most feared linebacker in the game. I don't care how many defenses his team led the league in. I do know OC made sure plays were designed to go away from Romanowski.That there was always a position player assigned to him. Not taking anything away from the list you posted.Just my opinion from the thousands of games I have watched. Including all those you listed.

Other than Jerry Rice there is nobody in the league who worked harder on and off season staying in football shape.

Tony,
Ron Artest ran. Pure and simple. Wallace went after him, called him a little bitch, threw a towel at him and Artest stayed behind the ref before laying on the table like a little punk. All he had to do was stay where he was if he wanted a piece of Ben. The fact he went into the crowd proved his stance and heart.

Screw Romanowski and Porter. Either of these pussies knifed two dudes in a parking in the Buckhead section of Atlanta without getting even a dab of blood on his bling and leather jacket? No! I didn't think so!

Rayenthal James Lewis ... craziest MFer to ever play LB in the NFL.

Rayenthal James Lewis ... craziest MFer to ever play LB in the NFL.

Posted by joncarry at 2006-12-18 03:33 PM |
No argument here. He is one crazy ass SOB

Baby's daddy...Ray Carruth...

Crispee...

Ron stood his ground and the official, Tommy Nunez Jr. pushed him to the scorer's table. Ron didn't "run". Look up Ron's history. They had to take him out of boxing because he almost killed someone in the ring during Golden Gloves.

I live in Indy and the Pacers have been my favorite team since the 60s. I play basketball in Conseco with the CEO of the Simon Property Group, who's father and uncle own the Pacers. My best friend dated the President's(Walsh's) daughter. I've been personal acquaintences of most Pacers since the mid-80s.

All I'm saying is that my views aren't those of the typical fan. You are free to view it however you want, but ask any player in the NBA if Ron was running from Ben and you'll get the answer I gave you, which is "no". Ron may even weigh more than Ben. Ron was running from trouble, not Ben Wallace, yet trouble was the only one that caught him, not hot-headed Ben.

Baby's daddy...Ray Carruth...

Posted by 101Chairborne at 2006-12-18 03:36 PM

Feel sorry for that kid. All that money and still he fucks up over woman. An ugly one at that. Sad.

Tony,
I will find the link and post. Although I have seen it over a hundred times. You really think 5-9 150lb Tommy Nunez could keep him back???

I watched Carruth's trial on Court TV. The dude that Ray paid to actually pull the trigger wanted to jump out of the witness chair and rip Ray's head off of his body.

The probably should have let him.

Ben punked him and he ran and hid. the tape speaks for itself.

Ron was already under an extremely short lease per David Stern. If you want to view the events through a singular prism, go right ahead. Ron backed up because he didn't want the situation to escalate. It had nothing to do with fearing Ben. Let's just believe what we want since neither of us is going to change the other's opinion anyway.

Ron wanted to keep playing, he didn't want to be suspended over his actions. You call it running, I call it one of his few moments of lucidity considering the consequences.

"Rayenthal James Lewis ... craziest MFer to ever play LB in the NFL"

Coincidentally, Orenthal James Simpson is the craziest MFer ever to play running back in the NFL. Funny how similiar their names are.

Tony,
Wallace shoved him back. Right?? Sorry Tony but you are ot making any semse. You really think Artest was thinking about a suspension? Why in the fuck did he go in the stands???? Seems like a two hand shove in front of all the players is way more disrespecting than a fucking soda cup. Yet he chose to fight some little shit. Give me a break.

Crispee...

Are you beginning to understand now? Ron is the Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits combined into human form! His mind doesn't work like yours or mine. Yes he was thinking about a suspension when he backed away from Ben. Look at the circumstances: Pacers up 15 with seconds to go. 1st place in the Central Division and an impressive road win versus the World Champs! Why fight? What purpose would it serve at that point?

Yet when the cup hit, Ron said his mind went, "That could have put out my eye!" so he reacted. Our radio play-by-play guy tried to grab Ron and now suffers from nerve damage due to the attempt. Again, all of it is crazy, and I've never implied that it wasn't, but your notion and the real Ron operate on different channels.

And watch the video. Ron NEVER punched anyone until the guy suckerpunched Ron's head from behind. The kid Ron grabbed told the authorities that Ron asked him, "Why'd you do it?" and when he answered correctly that he didn't do it, Ron let him go. The guy that punched Ron first, which Ron then returned, WAS the guy that threw the cup, but Ron never knew it at the time.

He was the most feared linebacker in the game.

That is hogwash. Were you watching XFL games?

Other than Jerry Rice there is nobody in the league who worked harder on and off season staying in football shape.

Posted by crispee_oc at 2006-12-18 03:19 PM

I know this may come as a surprise to you, but there are a whole lot of NFL players who are gifted genetically and work their asses off to maximize those gifts WITHOUT using steroids. Romonowski was a solid linebacker in an era loaded with talent at the position. To claim he was head and shoulders above the other names on my list is laughable. Teams didn't game play LT, or Junior? or Urlacher, or Brooks?

Your manlove for Romo is distorting your memories. To even begin to say he was a better linebacker than Singeltary, or more feared than LT is ridiculous. I honestly have no idea what Bill Romanowski you were watching.

Feel sorry for that kid. All that money and still he fucks up over woman. An ugly one at that. Sad.

Posted by crispee_oc at 2006-12-18 03:38 PM |

Wow, just wow. The slimball fucknut has a woman and baby killed to avoid child support and you feel sorry for him? No wonder you're a Romanowski fan.

What a tool.

Romo was an intense competitor, of that there is no doubt. That being said, he'd be having Joey Porter's, Kirkland's, Paup's (although his carreer was short), and any other number of LB's ass babies if he was TOLD to.

This just reaffirms by belief as to the lack of character of 'many' in so called professional sports today.

Gansterman + talent= Rich gangsterman.

He is still just a gansta'

BTW, in the interests of "full disclosure" I had to add Paup due to my white pride. Shane Conlin would have helped my Irish Pride, but even I couldn't type that one and not be mortified...

Clay Matthews started in the NFL at linebacker for 14 years. You can add him to your uber-cracker list.

Isiah Thomas is a Punk was a punk at Indiana, was a punk in Detriot and is a punk now, it was through his coaching that caused this fight...Nothing but a COWARD.................. The Knicks started this fight because there feelings were hurt, what crap, play better a**holes.......

Eh . . . I'd still have to say the coward was the guy who threw the suckerpunch and ran.

The knicks threw a hard foul at an opponent during a game where the TWO coaches were settling a personal grudge. A foul, even a flagrat foul is still different than throwing a punch. The guy who laid his hand on an opponent after the whistle is the one who started the fight.

Karl had an agenda that night. He was sticking it to Isiah on behalf of Larry Brown, a close personal friend and fellow UNC alum. Karl was bringing baggage on the court and should have expected a response. Maybe he should have told his guys, "I'm going to put you at risk of rough play to settle a score on behalf of my fried who is being paid 8 million dollars to not work this season. But when they rough you up, don't fight back so no one gets suspended. Is that something you might be interested in?"

lol


well hell ......didnt the romans cheer the lions .....now there was some blood sport for ya.... of course the gladiators are the source of all of this....damn pagan romans...


face it folks....all pro sport at least the mainstream ones are increasingly becoming sanctioned gang warfare without lethal weapons.....my guess is thats just a question of time...it will probably start with knives and steadily progress to assault rifles and rpgs....


I bet that will sell tickets too...


lol