I think that two people who love each other, should be given the same rights and benefits as others, no matter what sex they are.

People need to concern themselves with their own relationships and leave others to their's.

When a man can get pregnant, then let em marry. Otherwise, nature doesnt agree..

Nothing like a hearty debate to get the juices flowing so early in the morning, Boaz.

So, you think that creating a pregnancy is the only reason for sex????

You think pregnancy is the only reason for marriage?

When a man can get pregnant, then let em marry. Otherwise, nature doesnt agree..

Ummmm... would you be talking about Mr. Lee, Boaz?

bah... hate it when that happens. Just cut and paste.

When a man can get pregnant, then let em marry. Otherwise, nature doesnt agree..

Posted by boaz at 2006-12-15 06:33 AM | Reply

Has absolutely nothing to do with Pregnancy and everything to do with Due Process and equal Protection PERIOD and no not THAT Period either.

Larry

" Otherwise, nature doesnt agree.."

Before I go at this one, keep in mind that I argue constitutional rights, not spiritual teachings. I just believe in being fair.

People are attracted to people for many different reasons. Who's to say what's "natural"?

Love doesn't come with a playbook. Love doesn't discriminate. Love is hard enough to find, and I say that if two people love each other, it IS natural.

I am a traditionalist. I believe in what nature intended. Men do not belong with men, and women do not belong with women (as pleasing as that is to the sight). Some things progressive are good for a society, I just feel this does not bode well for the country. I agree that gays should be allowed to be together, just dont force a nation to recognize it when it(the nation) collectively has shunned this type of behavior.

"Men do not belong with men, and women do not belong with women (as pleasing as that is to the sight). "

Here we go!!

You're ok with two women being together because it turns you on...it's ok for your pleasure, but...turn the tables on them when it comes to constitutional rights??

"I am a traditionalist."

You know my views on marriage. You know that I'm a traditionalist when it comes to my own relationships.

But what my beliefs are, shouldn't be forced down the throats of someone who sees things differently.

" just dont force a nation to recognize it when it(the nation) collectively has shunned this type of behavior."

It's being "shunned" because of religious beliefs. And again...my beliefs shouldn't be forced upon those who don't share them.

From the male pregnancy article:

A lot of people have cast this endeavor as something terribly monstrous a startling example of how science and medicine have simply gone too far. From my perspective, however, I am simply bringing a child into this world. There is nothing more natural and beautiful on this earth than that. This is something that I've always wanted to do

Man has always failed when he has tried to reproduce what god does. There are just somethings that man should not try, even if he feels he can. Curing diseases is one thing. This abomination is another. Doing something like this is akin to being a spoiled child, angry because the rules do not fit his behavior and is forcing an outcome. I know there is something higher in this universe than ourselves, and there are somethings that we are just too small in our conscience to understand and too stupid to not leave alone.

And you didn't answer my questions:

Is creating a pregnancy the only reason for sex?

Is creating a pregnancy the only reason for marriage?

Come on, baby...tell me!

keep in mind that I argue constitutional rights

Lisa,

Along this line, can you tell me the legal difference between marraige and a civil union (besides the label that is).

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you on this to a degree.

Is creating a pregnancy the only reason for marriage?

In a perfect world, it would be. A man and a woman are the only ones who can totally care for a child. Even with so called "strong women" or single men raising children, the children are missing out on the complete picture of a family. Our selfish lifestyles in this country have led to the problems we have today, magnified by the womans lib movement.

Oh, didnt see the whole of your question..people can marry because they love each other, but should multiply because it is nature's intent.

When a man can get pregnant, then let em marry. Otherwise, nature doesnt agree..

This abomination is another.

It is funny that you set the criteria for allowing marraige in your first post, then back down once a site purporting the meeting of that criteria is given. Seems like you were making an empty statement.

For your info, the site is a hoax. Pure fiction. However the science behind it is not out of the realm of possibility.

Civil unions do not offer all the same rights and benefits as marriage. The rights and benefits of Civil unions do not go beyond the state that offers them.

The rights and benefits of Civil unions do not go beyond the state that offers them.

Neither does marraige. If a state decided it would stop honoring marraige you would have the same problem. The real problem isn't that they are different, it is that not all states support civil union yet.

ok moonman....got me :)

I took your link at face value...LOL

But the quote is something that such a person would put forward.

" Our selfish lifestyles in this country have led to the problems we have today, magnified by the womans lib movement."

Oh...but NOT magnified by the selfishness of men who desert their children as they search for a more youthful wife, a carefree lifestyle out of their lack of taking resposibility.

I see.

"people can marry because they love each other, but should multiply because it is nature's intent."

So, as in my case, I shouldn't multiply anymore due to health reasons, so therefore, I have no business remarrying. Is that is?

Lisa,

All men arent that way. I agree, men are not taking on responsibility as they used to. But then again, it is a by product of the womens movement, telling society that they no longer need men and are doing things on their own. You cant have it both ways. A woman cannot raise a man, only a strong male role model can do that.

"If a state decided it would stop honoring marraige you would have the same problem"

You can talk about illogical if's all you want...no state would ever stop honoring marriage.

The fact remains...civil unions do not afford gay couples the same constitutional rights as marriage does.

So, as in my case, I shouldn't multiply anymore due to health reasons, so therefore, I have no business remarrying. Is that is?

I never said that. If you find a MAN that you love, get married. There are other ways to conceive. But, in my humble opinion, only a man and a woman should be raising kids. period

A woman cannot raise a man, only a strong male role model can do that.

I know plenty of children raised by single mothers that would disagree.

" But then again, it is a by product of the womens movement, telling society that they no longer need men and are doing things on their own."

Women have been forced to play both roles, Boaz, because of mens lack of taking responsibility.

Women have been taught by MEN that men are not needed.

And please do not tell me that I am not making a man out of my little one because I am not married.

You have no idea how I go to great pains to make sure he is taught how to be a man.

You can talk about illogical if's all you want...no state would ever stop honoring marriage.

True, they wouldn't. Regardless though, you used that as the difference. I debunked that as a difference. It is a theoretical possibility that they COULD even if they wouldn't. If they did you would have the same problem with marriage that you stated for civil unions. That means that it isn't a difference. The difference is the range of acceptance among the states.

The fact remains...civil unions do not afford gay couples the same constitutional rights as marriage does.

What Constitutional rights would not be provided by civil union that marriage has?

I know plenty of children raised by single mothers that would disagree.

I do too, but just because the man got to adulthood doesnt mean he is a man. Herein lies a womans definition of a man and a man's definition. The two are VERY different. Most women define a man cooing to her, taking her every command, and dedicating himself to her. This is only the selfish nature of a woman talking. A true man does take care of his woman, but he also stays true to his convictions, and isnt swayed by emotions, as a woman is. He leads his household and leads by example. He takes charge, makes decisions based on experience. He doesnt let emotion overtake him.

Women have been forced to play both roles, Boaz, because of mens lack of taking responsibility.

Bullcrap, lisa,

Women only have shunned the domestic jobs of the women who came before them. You cant have two people in a home who dont know how to cook, no one cleans, and no one is raising children. Women have been shunning womens work since the '60's. It is hard to be a woman and actually do a womans job. That is why there was chivalry. It was a man's way to acknowldge the hardships a woman went through raising children. Once there was the women movement, women wanted equality and still wanted to be treated as the women who came before them. I say today it is undeserved. Dont whine and cry when I treat you as I would another man and you rammed equality down the throat of the nation. Women have always wanted it both ways. True men refuse to give it to them that way.

Most women define a man cooing to her, taking her every command, and dedicating himself to her.

On what basis do you make this claim? My mother never suggested any such thing. Neither has any other woman I know.

but he also stays true to his convictions,

Women do too. This is a basic trait of being a responsible adult. Not a function of male vs. female.

and isnt swayed by emotions, as a woman is.

Heh heh... shows how much you know about men. Or women for that matter.

He leads his household and leads by example. He takes charge, makes decisions based on experience

Again, I have known many single mothers that do this very thing.

All in all it sounds like you got your info on men and women from a John Wayne movie... not real life.

" Most women define a man cooing to her, taking her every command, and dedicating himself to her. "

Not true.

First of all, two people in love should be dedicated to each other. Otherwise there is no reason for them to be together.

Secondly, if a woman defines a man as someone who will coo at her and take her every command....she is a piss poor woman.

I've had a husband who wanted to do just that. He would jump at the chance to wait on me hand and foot.... and it was sufficating. It was sickening. And in my opinion, he was a very weak man. Which is why we are no longer married.

"This is only the selfish nature of a woman talking."

OMG....and swayed by emotions??

Boaz, I realize that you are not an emotional person. Part of me likes that about you. However, to say that women expressing their emotions makes them selfish, is not true.

How else to you truely know someone if you don't know how they feel, how they think, what's important to them??

Naa, Moonman,

I have lived in this world too, and I see what is going on. I know what makes a good household, because I lived in one. I know what has been destroying the family unit for the last 40 years. Men do not have proper examples to follow these days. Those that do, are labeled as relics of the past and outdated. I disagree.

However, to say that women expressing their emotions makes them selfish, is not true.

I didnt say that. The womens movement has tried to define a man to fit their own interpretions how the movement felt they should be. Because women were the only ones raising kids in some situations, because of the failure of men, women were defining their young boys and telling them how they felt men should be. Often times, that was wrong.

I know what makes a good household, because I lived in one.

So do I; I did too. Any similarity between us on this seems to end there though. You state absolutes and seem to have a very sexist view of gender roles and traits. Not only that but they are completely at odds with all I have experienced in life, both as a son and as a father/husband.

Regardless of where you say you got your views, it still comes off sounding like a cross between a John Wayne movie and Leave It To Beaver.

" Women have been shunning womens work since the '60's."

When men returned from WWII, there was an incredible high number of divorces because men had left their families.

Women were forced to go to work, and wear the hats of both man and woman.

Look, I am not disagreeing with you on how a household should be run. You and I are on the exact same page as far as that goes. But to place the blame on women's "selfishness", and ignoring that men hold a major responsibility in why women "want it all", is not the full truth.

" it still comes off sounding like a cross between a John Wayne movie and Leave It To Beaver."

Hey, watch it! I've said many times that I would be very happy being a June Cleaver.

You state absolutes and seem to have a very sexist view of gender roles and traits.

I must admit..you are right.

But to place the blame on women's "selfishness", and ignoring that men hold a major responsibility in why women "want it all", is not the full truth.

I have not only blamed women lisa, look back at my posts. Men have failed to be good role models for the men of the future, which is why we have such a lazy generation of youth, which is why we have this entitlement society.

But skip the high heels....I'm more comfortable barefoot!

I've said many times that I would be very happy being a June Cleaver.

In my opinion, most women would. But we have a generation of men who are no up to the task of providing that lifestyle. They dont want to go to school, they dont have the dedication to finish college, and you cannot have that lifestyle unless you have money, plain and simple.

" Men have failed to be good role models for the men of the future, which is why we have such a lazy generation of youth, which is why we have this entitlement society."

That's much better! : )

Hey, watch it! I've said many times that I would be very happy being a June Cleaver.

If you want to then that is fine and I would support your right to that. However, Boaz was stating absolutes. As in, that is absolutely a womans place and they have no business doing a "man's job" (whatever THAT is). That is a very sexist view of things.

But skip the high heels....I'm more comfortable barefoot!

Stop flirting with me lisa, people will start to talk :)

As in, that is absolutely a womans place and they have no business doing a "man's job"

Not necessarily Moonman,

There are things that women have no business doing, but because of our politically correct society, we allow them too, often with disasterous results.

"In my opinion, most women would. But we have a generation of men who are no up to the task of providing that lifestyle. They dont want to go to school, they dont have the dedication to finish college, and you cannot have that lifestyle unless you have money, plain and simple."

Bull crap, Boaz! (ha...how do you like it? lol)

I know men who worked more than one job, just so their family unit stayed the way it should be....the woman at home taking care of her husband, children and home.

So...are you advocating women working outside the home? And if she has to, wouldn't it make more sense for her to want to make the most money per hour as she could, therefore putting importance on her career? I thought you didn't like that?

There are things that women have no business doing, but because of our politically correct society, we allow them too, often with disasterous results.

For example? What would you consider a "man's job"?

"Stop flirting with me lisa, people will start to talk :)"

I'm not flirting.

It's the truth.

I know men who worked more than one job, just so their family unit stayed the way it should be....the woman at home taking care of her husband, children and home.

So...are you advocating women working outside the home?

As I said, it takes money to live the cookie cutter life of generations past. It also takes dedication. No, I do not advocate women working outside the home. Children need a full time mom to be there, plain and simple. If a woman does decide to work, then she doenst need to have kids. This is the paradox, women wanting to have it all..and you just cannot do it..

If a woman does decide to work, then she doenst need to have kids. This is the paradox, women wanting to have it all..and you just cannot do it..

I will tell my mother you think she is a failure then.

Mooman:

If you have read any of my posts over the past two plus years that I have been coming to this site, you would see that I mostly agree with Boaz's views on men and women.

He just gets my blood pressure up when he wants to put most of the blame on women.

God intended a man to be the head of the household, a woman to be the caregiver. It's that simple.

If you have read any of my posts over the past two plus years that I have been coming to this site, you would see that I mostly agree with Boaz's views on men and women.

I agree too. To a point.

I don't agree that it is an absolute. That it MUST be that way, and if it isn't then it is disaster and it won't turn out right. I also believe that his blaming women stems directly from that absolutist point of view.

"I will tell my mother you think she is a failure then"

That's not what Boaz is saying.

He's saying that some womens "want it all" attitude does leave something unattended.

I know myself that working outside the home, something isn't cared for as it should be. It may be the housework, it may be my child, it may be myself.

Something has to give.

I will tell my mother you think she is a failure then.

Maybe in your case, she succeeded, but in the overwhelming number of cases, the woman ends up tired, and something drops or something gets left out. I put alot of the blame on men, as most have not stepped up to the plate. But the women's movement and it's determination to redefine gender roles has done more harm to this nation's culture than anything else..

What would you consider a "man's job"?

Mostly they are physical jobs. Police, fireman and alot of jobs in the military. Seems some women are not willing to acknowledge their physical shortcomings and in the course of doing their jobs, someone could get hurt.

" But the women's movement and it's determination to redefine gender roles has done more harm to this nation's culture than anything else.."

Sigh....here we go again!!

But, Hey...I'd burn my bras in a hot New York minute. It's more comfortable, more natural not to wear one!!

" the woman ends up tired, and something drops or something gets left out."

See...I told you!

Do I know that man or what?!

And...he's 100% correct!

I was born in the wrong era!

I am speaking in generalizations too, moonman, not in specific situations. Some women have done miracles with what they have, but it shouldnt be that way.

That's not what Boaz is saying.

He's saying that some womens "want it all" attitude does leave something unattended.

Again though, he stated an absolute:

"you just cannot do it."

My reply was a natural follow up since my mother did exactly what he said cannot be done. It CAN be done, but greater care needs to be taken to make sure the time with your children is QUALITY time even if it can't be QUANTITY time.

His statement simply said (to paraphrase) that if you try to have both you will fail. Ergo, my mother must have been a failure by his statement.

I was born in the wrong era!

Me too, lisa..

Before my grandfather died at 88 years old..we were watching TV, and the usual gloom and doom was on, alot of it then was cultural issues. He said, "God, I am glad I am leaving here!"

As I said, it takes money to live the cookie cutter life of generations past. It also takes dedication. No, I do not advocate women working outside the home. Children need a full time mom to be there, plain and simple. If a woman does decide to work, then she doenst need to have kids. This is the paradox, women wanting to have it all..and you just cannot do it..

While I agree women can't have it all, all at once, I don't think it is necessary for a woman to be a full-time stay at home mom once the children reach school age. With all our modern conveniences, it doesn't take as much time to do housework as it once did. And if a woman can work from home or has (ideally) a close relative who can watch her young children, I don't see why she couldn't work at least part time. Many poor women have to work and put their kids in day care. Many rich women don't have to work but choose to have a nanny, maid, cook, etc.

I am speaking in generalizations too, moonman, not in specific situations.

I think you might have meant a generalization, but it came across as an absolute.

Some women have done miracles with what they have, but it shouldnt be that way.

I wouldn't go so far as to say a miracle... I don't think it is that rare of a feat to accomplish. It certainly takes dedication though.

Understood moonman,

I still think women cannot have it all. Your mother suffered doing what she did for you. Noble as it was, and you may not have seen it, she did suffer. It was hard on her, and I doubt she would say it was easy. I am antiquated in my beliefs Those are just my beliefs. It was a simpler time then, and easier, and it worked.

" my mother must have been a failure by his statement."

You're going way to far in your analysis of what he said and meant.

And...I'm sure you're mother had moments where she felt like she wasn't 100%.

It's only natural to feel that way as a mother, as a woman, when she is pulled in twenty different directions and she only has 24 hours in a day.

Did she get 8 hours of sleep every night? Did she put somethings off for the next day because she ran out of time?

That doesn't mean she was a failure, it simply means that she's only human and a woman can only do so much in a day. Working outside the home takes much of your day, so it's obvious that something has to give.

I don't think it is necessary for a woman to be a full-time stay at home mom once the children reach school age.

Since I am in the military, my wife usually picks up when I cannot be there at the school. Her not working has allowed that. We tinkered with her going to work, but decided the kids needed someone at the school during the year. Plus, before my mom remarried, I was a latch key kid, and we wanted to avoid that.

Lawmakers in the US state of New Jersey have legalised same-sex civil unions, giving gay and lesbian couples the same rights as heterosexual couples.

Leave it to the BBC to get a simple news story factually wrong on the first sentence. (Plus I hate the way the English spell "legalized".) Gays and lesbians already have the same rights as heterosexual people have. Now they have special rights.

Thank you, New Jersey. Your State is a cesspool and would make a fine national landfill.

But the women's movement and it's determination to redefine gender roles has done more harm to this nation's culture than anything else..

You seem to be assuming most women who work do so because they are feminists who are trying to redefine their gender roles. While that may be true of professional women, I think many women work because their families need the money.

And...I'm sure you're mother had moments where she felt like she wasn't 100%.

As a person coparenting WITH my wife, I can honestly say that I think we ALL have times where we feel that way. It isn't an easy job, either together or alone (I have done both).

Did she get 8 hours of sleep every night? Did she put somethings off for the next day because she ran out of time?

Not always, but then she doesn't now even though all the kids are grown up. She and I are alike on that trait: we actually need less sleep than most people. She generally didn't put things off though, she was brilliant at managing her time. She was (and is) very organized and logical minded. Not to mention the fact that my sister and I would do things around the house too. We had full chore lists.

"I was born in the wrong era!

Me too, lisa.."

I want the old days.

lol

Unfortunately, men today don't think the way they did back then. They want bigger and better toys, bigger and better houses, cars, etc....therefore, women need to bring in a second income.

I want to clean, cook, bake, take care of a man and my child.

I'm a very simplistic person, I guess.

I want to clean, cook, bake, take care of a man and my child.

I'm a very simplistic person, I guess.

I forsee you will not be single for long. Deep down inside, that is every man's dream woman.

Plus, before my mom remarried, I was a latch key kid, and we wanted to avoid that.

Being a latch key kid isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think it depends on the age and personality of the child. One of my best friend's in high school had a mother who worked full-time, and she learned to be very independent and quite capable of looking after herself. When my sister worked full-time, my niece and nephew did the same thing. My niece was very organized and would come home from school and immediately start doing her homework. I contrast that to other kids I know whose parents have to nag and threaten them every step of the way to get them to hit the books.

You were lucky then, Mooman. Bless your mother's heart.

Let me ask you this:

Were you and your sister involved in activities that required a lot of chasing for you guys?

I'll tell you this...my first husband never did anything. Well, he managed to have the energy to beat the shit out of me, but that was about it...lol. Every responisbility that a man should have taken on, was up to me to do or it wouldn't be done. Having three kids very active in sports and music, I had to have all three at different places at the same time. Then go home and make supper (my slow cooker became my best friend), then clean, do laundry, pack lunches the next day, spend that quality time you were talking about with them, etc....which left me working into the late hours of the evening.

It wasn't fun, nor was it healthy for me to burn both ends of the candle.

That's what I'm saying when I say that something has to give.

"Being a latch key kid isn't necessarily a bad thing."

As a mother, I wouldn't allow that.

I did not want my kids coming home to an empty house...with a mother absent.

I had to work because my husband was lazy and selfish but I always worked my jobs around my children.

They never came home to find me not there.

"Being a latch key kid isn't necessarily a bad thing."

As a mother, I wouldn't allow that.

I did not want my kids coming home to an empty house...with a mother absent.

I had to work because my husband was lazy and selfish but I always worked my jobs around my children.

They never came home to find me not there.

Plenty of women who stayed at home back in the old days were exhausted too, especially when they had as many as 8 to 10 children and a mother-in-law who gave the house a once over with the white glove treatment. :-)

Were you and your sister involved in activities that required a lot of chasing for you guys?

Heh heh... at times. Actually we were pretty well behaved youngsters that simply "had our moments". My mom did good in that respect. My wild days were when I was a teenager. There are things I did then that I STILL don't dare tell her about. LOL

Well, he managed to have the energy to beat the shit out of me, but that was about it..

You got his name and address still, Lisa? Care to give it out?

I did not want my kids coming home to an empty house...with a mother absent.

Like I said, Lisa, I think it depends on the age and personality of the children. Some might flourish, others flounder. But then again, I used to wish I could come home to an empty house somedays, so I wouldn't have to have my mother telling me what to do every moment of the day. ;-) In other words, there is more to being a good mother than simply being there. And, no, I am in no way implying that you were not, or are not, a good mother!

I forsee you will not be single for long. Deep down inside, that is every man's dream woman.

Posted by boaz at 2006-12-15 08:01 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

I guess I am not like every man (Big Suprize huh LMAO) But I want a Woman that Wears the "Pants" in the Family. I was raised in a very Matriarical Household where the Women made the Rules and the Man Obeyed them OR ELSE. So I guess I am the odd man out so to speak,

Larry

especially when they had as many as 8 to 10 children

That would be my grandmother. She had 10 children. She had 8 that lived. Not only that but they were so poor that she had to work (as a maid) and still managed to raise them all properly. My grandfather was the hardest working man I have ever known, he just didn't make enough to support that large of a family by himself. My grandmother was DEVOUT Catholic though, and the Church didn't allow contraception.

Mooman...I'm not talking about behavior...I meant activities like swim lessons, sport activities, etc.

"You got his name and address still, Lisa? Care to give it out?"

lol...You'd have to stand in line. Mike wants first crack at him....and there are many others.

Thanks for the offer though.

If I really wanted to be vindictive....I am Italian. I have "family" members.

"But I want a Woman that Wears the "Pants" in the Family."

We couldn't be married, Larry. I love being submissive!!

I was raised in a very Matriarical Household where the Women made the Rules and the Man Obeyed them OR ELSE.

Score a point for you, Boaz. LOL

Funny thing is, my step-dad (yes my mother remarried later) was raised by his mother after he dad left. His mother was VERY "matriarcal", however he thinks very much like Boaz does. His admitted role-model IS John Wayne. LOL

As a person coparenting WITH my wife,

Coparenting is a a good thing. If the idea that the mother should assume the primary parenting role leads to a father who comes home exhausted each night with nothing to offer his wife and kids, I don't see how that helps anyone or contributes to the welfare of the family except in financial ways.

I meant activities like swim lessons, sport activities, etc

I played sports with the guys in the neighborhood, not as an organized team. When I was VERY young I had swimming lessons. I was very active as a kid, but didn't really need the organized events since there were plenty of kids around my age in the neighborhood.

"Plenty of women who stayed at home back in the old days were exhausted too, especially when they had as many as 8 to 10 children and a mother-in-law who gave the house a once over with the white glove treatment. :-)"

You're right Gal. My great grandmother had 13 children.

But there is a difference in the attitude about that "tiredness". Being tired after taking care of a husband, children and home is a rewarding "tiredness", in my humble opinion. It differs from the tiredness of working 8 hours at a job then coming home and doing all that work, often times, not finishing.

I hate things left unfinished, hanging over my head. I can't relax or sleep. lol

"Coparenting is a a good thing."

Boaz and I are talking about the same thing...except in roles.

A man has his role in coparenting, and a woman has hers.

Actually, Lisa, she was quoting me on the coparenting thing. However I think we all agree on that: Coparenting is the ideal way.

Ummmmm errrr Ummmmmmm I thought You already had a Man Lisa. LOL I am very submissive and i cherish it Myself. I guess I am the equivalent to a Male Bitch. Oh well life DOES go on LMAO BLUSH

Larry

Mooman:

I had three kids involved in so many things, I felt like a taxi service!

A man has his role in coparenting, and a woman has hers.

Um, okay, as long as the father's role isn't to come home and dish out all the punishment and discipline. I really hate the "Wait till your father gets home" syndrome.

Gal:

Here's my take on man and woman's role:

A man leads by example, teaching a boy how to be a man. He does discipline, not saying that a woman should say "wait till your father gets home"...I'm quite capable of dishing out punishments...but his role is different. He should be the bread winner.

A womans role is managing her home, taking care of her husband, her children.

" thought You already had a Man Lisa."

Yea, I kinda do. lol. I wasn't offering an invitation...lol.

I was just saying that we would be fighting for the same role if we were married.

Ohhhhhh whew had Me worried there for a Moment. This is true We would be fighting at every turn instead of Fists a flying it would be the Feather DUsters LOL

Larry

" We would be fighting at every turn"

No. I don't like to fight or argue. I just keep things to myself most times. I get over things easy and it takes an awful lot to get me mad.

Have you ever painted with feather dusters?? It leaves a really cool look on the walls.

Nope never have Lisa. I only use a feather Duster on the dryer. or cleaning out return vents.

Larry

It was a simpler time then, and easier, and it worked.

It didn't work for everyone. Not every woman likes to cook and clean and bake, nor are they particularly good at it. Some women would rather be doing genetic research, writing a book, arguing a court case or performing a C-section and would be better at doing those things than doing housework. To me that's what the women's movement was all about--allowing those women who wanted to be and who were qualified to be Supreme Court justices, school principals, accountants or newspaper reporters to have the opportunity to do so and not be disqualified simply because of their gender.

I love being submissive!!

At least at home, or is Mike going to be the real power behind the throne when you become president? LOL

" Mike going to be the real power behind the throne when you become president?"

The only power Mike will have is the power he has while sitting on the porcelain throne!!


LOL

Personally, I think people should be able to pursue happiness as they see fit and I firmly believe that was the intention of our forefathers.

Everybody is different - some women want to be June Cleaver, and some don't. My grandmother was miserable as a housewife and suffered from depression for 40 years. It isn't for everyone and there is no one size fits all prescription for a happy life.

There is nothing wrong with what Boaz thinks or the opinions that he expresses right up to the point that he would be willing to vote against the rights of people to equally pursue their own happiness. That is when he becomes wrong. That is the fundamental problem in America today - the arrogance displayed by people who believe their prescription for society is the right one. One of the most forgotten notions of being an American is to remember to defend the rights and freedoms of everyone, EVEN if you don't like them or agree with them. I would never vote for Boaz' comments to be considered a chauvanistic hate-crime, even though I disagree with his sweeping generalizations.

Not every woman likes to cook and clean and bake, nor are they particularly good at it. Some women would rather be doing genetic research, writing a book, arguing a court case or performing a C-section and would be better at doing those things than doing housework. To me that's what the women's movement was all about--allowing those women who wanted to be and who were qualified to be Supreme Court justices, school principals, accountants or newspaper reporters to have the opportunity to do so and not be disqualified simply because of their gender.

The only problem I have with this is when women of this sort try to have it all. They cant wonder where good men have gone because they are with women who are raising households.

"When a man can get pregnant, then let em marry. Otherwise, nature doesnt agree.."

So if a straight guy shoots blanks he can't get married? Same with straight women who can't conceive I guess.

" Some women would rather be doing genetic research, writing a book, arguing a court case or performing a C-section"

They can have it.

I was busy creating gentics, reading books to my children, arguing with them to take a bath and having C-Sections.

I've enjoyed my life much better that way.

The only problem I have with this is when women of this sort try to have it all.

So men should have the ability to have "it all" but women should not be afforded the same ability.

They can have it.

I've enjoyed my life much better that way.

Good for you, Lisa! Being a good mother is one of the most important and demanding "professions." Different strokes for different folks is all I'm saying.

"So men should have the ability to have "it all" but women should not be afforded the same ability."

Women would "have it all", Crass.

They would have the love of a good man, the time afforded to be a full time mother, a home to care for, no pressures from having to call into work, getting an earful from your boss because you decide to stay home with your sick child and care for him, no pressure from men in the work force who come on to you, no pressure from having to get your housework done in the short time you have after you've come home from work, take care of the kids, get them to bed and have to get to bed yourself because you have to get up and go to work the next day....and not too tired for sex!!

I'd say they'd have it all!!

Thanks Gal!

Mike and I had a discussion tonight when I got home from work, about how Mike thinks my little guy acts more mature with him than he does with me.

I say, he's only six....why should he act mature??

They are only little once and I enjoy him snuggling up next to me with a book, I enjoy the cute little way he thinks he's pulling one over on me. I love how he still needs me.

The time comes fast enough when kids start pulling away from their mothers so I'm going to enjoy this for as long as it lasts!!

Hey, Mike:

I was disappointed not to see a smart ass retort about the porcelain throne comment I made earlier.

You're slipping ol' man!!

lol

"People need to concern themselves with their own relationships and leave others to their's."

Absolutely! My cousin is so hot, if I wasn't in a four-way relationship with my daughter, ex-wife, neighbor and the family German Shepherd, I'd be banging him as well.

LOL

Too funny!

It didn't work for everyone. Not every woman likes to cook and clean and bake, nor are they particularly good at it. Some women would rather be doing genetic research, writing a book, arguing a court case or performing a C-section and would be better at doing those things than doing housework. To me that's what the women's movement was all about--allowing those women who wanted to be and who were qualified to be Supreme Court justices, school principals, accountants or newspaper reporters to have the opportunity to do so and not be disqualified simply because of their gender.

That's great.

What's for dinner?

And I told you not to run the damn dishwasher before I take a shower.

Jesus, woman.

Absolutely! My cousin is so hot, if I wasn't in a four-way relationship with my daughter, ex-wife, neighbor and the family German Shepherd, I'd be banging him as well.

Now I'm jealous. I thought I was the only one bangin your German Shephard!

You guys are too funny.

I'm hiding my dog!