The war in Iraq is predicated on a lie, therefor the war in Iraq is illegal.
Bring our troops home now.
Not one more American death for oil.

The blood of American soldiers is flowing thru your vehicle's fuel lines America.
That is a high price to pay so you can drive your SUVs and other gas guzzlers.

is it wrong to ask a general how much longer.
like say things stay ther same for another 4 years, then do you talk about it? what about three? i think these kinds of discussions should be happening. We would be absolute fools not to have these discussions

The problem I have here is will we actually get the truth from the standing Generals in charge.

Past history under the Bush administration says they are just going to politic and not provide the necessary means to get the information.

The war is being run from the white house so the information will not be correct because these military leaders are worried about their jobs.

The real shame in this is the troops pay for this faulty information.

I shoulda figured as much.

A top general comes out against the war, you guys run to his side and support him unquestioningly. A standing general who comes out against pulling out, suddenly he's politicing.


The blood of American soldiers is flowing thru your vehicle's fuel lines America.


I don't own a car.

The problem is the standing Generals were not listened to. General Shinseki said we needed more troops on the ground to secure Iraq. He was fired. Generals and analysts advised against disbanding the Iraqi army, it was done anyway. Generals said the purging of all Bathist party members would leave a vacuum of power but it was done. Now generals are saying that major withdraws will be detrimental will the US learn from its past mistakes or will politicians, most of whom have never served continue to be so presumptuous that they know best and ignore years of service and training that have led these military leaders to their conclusions? If we ignore the people with the experience and training we might as well have Rummy back because that was his attitude, you have spoken but I know best now you retire and get me a general that will say what I want to hear.

The problem I have here is will we actually get the truth from the standing Generals in charge.

Past history under the Bush administration says they are just going to politic and not provide the necessary means to get the information.

The war is being run from the white house so the information will not be correct because these military leaders are worried about their jobs.

The real shame in this is the troops pay for this faulty information.

Posted by Crassus at 2006-11-16 02:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

Can't trust politicians; Dems, Repubs, et al. Can't trust military leaders. Who does that leave? No one with skin on. Oh, wait...most prefer not to trust God...

Surely there must be a pill for all of this. Ely Lilly, where are you? Never mind. Can't trust corporations either.

"The blood of American soldiers is flowing thru your vehicle's fuel lines America.
That is a high price to pay so you can drive your SUVs and other gas guzzlers.'

Last time I checked Ahmadinejad charged for his oil jeffindouchebag.

And those pesky cartoons were drawn from the blood of Theo Van Gogh. Something certainly is rotten in Denmark, isn't it jeff? It's always someone else's fault, now you blame the West's use of oil?

Last time I checked Ahmadinejad charged for his oil jeffindouchebag.

"The blood of American soldiers is flowing thru your vehicle's fuel lines America.
That is a high price to pay so you can drive your SUVs and other gas guzzlers.'

And those pesky cartoons were drawn from the blood of Theo Van Gogh. Something certainly is rotten in Denmark, isn't it jeff? It's always someone else's fault, now you blame the West's use of oil?

Last time I checked Ahmadinejad charged for his oil jeffindouchebag.

abizaid opposes dannatt?
there won't be a coalition much longer.....

4 more americans died today

speaking of gas, anyone notice the price of gas in the last week or so?

speaking of gas, anyone notice the price of gas in the last week or so?

Posted by truthhurts at 2006-11-16 06:57 AM | Reply

It went up a dime.

Obviously Bush is pissed about the election, so he just pulled up "Gas Manipulator 2.0" on his laptop and changed the price.

Hilarious, Vern!

The blood of American soldiers is flowing thru your vehicle's fuel lines America.
not to mention the economies of the US, England, France, Germany, the rest of Europe, most of Asia, China, India, Canada and South American.

JeffNDenmark, if armies are not deployed to defend national security intrests, why have an army?

well.......

lets see...generals come out against rumsfeld and the war in general and they are some smart cookies.......this general doesnt say what the left wants him to say and there is some problem.....gee....thats real unusual.....WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!


look for yet another time..

in iraq was a dictator who had used chemicals and killed thousands if not more....and he ignored all of the resolutions and calls from the un as well as thumb his nose at sanctions.....(with the help of people at the un...how 'funny' is that).....and so we went in and now he is gone....

and doesnt that whole scenario sound familiar today about iran? and if we were to not do something about it and he gets a nuke......I can only imagine the screaming and attacks at bush for NOT DOING SOMETHING.......

You do know that generals know more about military actions then politicians do. I wish politics would stay out of this. General officers and politicians don't mix very well.

Okay, what's abazaid's plan for dismantling the militias aka the Iraqi military and security forces?

Abizaid stressed he has confidence in Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, and had urged him in a meeting this week to disarm Shiite militias "soon." By that, Abizaid testified, he meant in four to six months.

Six months and a few more troops and we'll see light at the end of the tunnel, President Johnson, err Bush!

Positively Westmoreland.
But he voiced optimism that Iraq's military can stabilize the country, given enough U.S. backing and political support from Iraq's government.

And what about the fight against al queda? Remember, the terrorists we were there to destroy?

Al-Anbar province is not under control, Senator," Abizaid replied. He said he recently released a Marine expeditionary unit of more than 2,000 troops from the Middle East to reinforce troops in Anbar. Still, he said that Baghdad and not Anbar will remain the main military effort, and that Iraqi forces will have to do more.

So basically we're going to fight some of the militias that prop up the government, just the shias, and give al queda a pass for the next year or so.
Brilliant. Clearly Bush is letting saudistan make the calls, like his daddy did.

As long as the Generals are anti-Bush we'll support them. If they disagree with our opinions then they are obviously hacks. Please ignore our glaring hypocracy on this and every other issue.
The Left

and doesnt that whole scenario sound familiar today about iran? and if we were to not do something about it and he gets a nuke......I can only imagine the screaming and attacks at bush for NOT DOING SOMETHING.......

I agree BL2 He's in a damned if you do damned if you dont situation. I also believe that if the situation goes much further with Irans' nuke program, Israel will NOT let them get too close to a weapon. They can't afford to, they would be the first target.

As long as the Generals are anti-Bush we'll support them. If they disagree with our opinions then they are obviously hacks. Please ignore our glaring hypocracy on this and every other issue.
The Left

Posted by 101Chairborne

...as long as the generals are anti-Bush, fire them and when one spouts the party line then say " we must listen to our military on the ground"...and whose hipocracy is that?

speaking of gas, anyone notice the price of gas in the last week or so?

Posted by truthhurts


In Cherry Hill its stable... 2.05 a gallon for the past week or two.

...as long as the generals are anti-Bush, fire them

Which general was fired?

"History will show that a vacuum was created and into the vacuum malign elements moved. The hope that we might have been able to get out of Iraq in 12, 18, 24 months after the initial start in 2003 has proved fallacious. Now hostile elements have got a hold it has made our life much more difficult in Baghdad and in Basra.

"The original intention was that we put in place a liberal democracy that was an exemplar for the region, was pro-West and might have a beneficial effect on the balance within the Middle East.

"That was the hope. Whether that was a sensible or nave hope, history will judge. I don't think we are going to do that. I think we should aim for a lower ambition."

Sir Richard adds, strongly, that we should "get ourselves out sometime soon because our presence exacerbates the security problems". "We are in a Muslim country and Muslims' views of foreigners in their country are quite clear. "As a foreigner, you can be welcomed by being invited into a country, but we weren't invited, certainly by those in Iraq at the time. Let's face it, the military campaign we fought in 2003 effectively kicked the door in." CDS Sir richard dannatt.......
bill lind has written about the flanks collapsing. i'm not sure how appropriate the analogy is (i'm not a mil historian) but he writes....
"For a military historian, the question arises: will history see Iraq as America's Stalingrad? If we kick the analogy up a couple of levels, to the strategic and grand strategic, there are parallels. Both the German and the American armies were able largely to take, but not hold, the objective. Both had too few troops. Both Berlin and Washington underestimated their enemy's ability to counter-attack. Both committed resources they needed elsewhere and could not replace to a strategically unimportant objective. Finally, both entrusted their flanks to weak allies and to luck."

does anyone really expect abiziad to waltz up to the hill and say that he's in the same position as gen von paulus?

***Top Commander Opposes Iraq Withdrawal***

......just wait till one week after he retires, he'll be saying the opposite, getting a pension cheque seems to stiffen a general's spine.................

withdrawal = death warrant for iraqis you guys so thoughtfully "liberated".

Can you say catch 22?

nope up 5 to 10 cents since last week

........you are right Pancho........

...it's a mess either way...........

President George Bush has told senior advisers that the US and its allies must make "a last big push" to win the war in Iraq and that instead of beginning a troop withdrawal next year, he may increase US forces by up to 20,000 soldiers, according to sources familiar with the administration's internal deliberations.


Four-point strategy

Increase US troop levels by up to 20,000 to secure Baghdad and allow redeployments elsewhere in Iraq (except for more death squad killings and mass kidnappings, upping our troops numbers in Baghdad has worked well this year. NOT)

Focus on regional cooperation with international conference and/or direct diplomatic involvement of countries such as Kuwait and Saudi Arabia (al queda backing sunnis are our last line of defense against Iran? Brilliant. Maybe Bush should start arming Osama in Iraq?)

Revive reconciliation process between Sunni, Shia and others (Good luck with that)

Increased resources from Congress to fund training and equipment of Iraqi security forces (so far we've refused to give them much more than crap, because we're afraid to see al sadr cruising around in a Stryker. What's going to change that?)How many weapons have gone missing so far?

It will also stress the need to counter corruption, improve local government and curtail the power of religious courts.
(If the Bushies want to counter corruption, they need to elect more Dems in Iraq. The GOP is congenitally unable to counter corruption.)
(You mean the Courts created by the Constitution voted for by the Iraqis and waved around by the Bushies as a sign of how great they were? Aren't we going to have to overthrow this government to do this?)

Meanwhile, back at Bush's first great military success, Operation Swimmingly goes on:
Al-Qaeda's influence and numbers are rapidly growing in Afghanistan, with fighters operating from new havens and mimicking techniques learned on the Iraqi battlefield for use against U.S. and allied troops, the directors of the CIA and defense intelligence told Congress yesterday.

Five years after the United States drove al-Qaeda and the Taliban from Afghanistan, Gen. Michael V. Hayden, director of the CIA, told the Senate Armed Services Committee that both groups are back, waging a "bloody insurgency" in the south and east of the country. U.S. support for the Kabul government of Hamid Karzai will be needed for "at least a decade" to ensure that the country does not fall again, he said.

Can't trust politicians; Dems, Repubs, et al. Can't trust military leaders. Who does that leave? No one with skin on. Oh, wait...most prefer not to trust God...

Posted by MACV1972 at 2006-11-16 06:16 AM

Well, let's trust God.
I'll ask him:
"God, what should we do in Iraq?"

I'll let you know if he answers me.

God told Bush to invade Iraq.

Bush's claim, not mine.

I can't believe he said it " ANOTHER SIX MONTHS"

ANOTHER. This will be the fifth "SIX MONTHS"

I can't believe he said it " ANOTHER SIX MONTHS"

ANOTHER. This will be the fifth "SIX MONTHS"


Yeah,but this will be the last six months. The last throes are being thrown, the corners are being turned and we can see light at the end of the tunnel.
Then the liberator welcoming and parades can start.
It's a slam dunk the next six months will be a cakewalk. A yellowcake walk.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months."

Vice President Cheney, on NBC's Meet the Press: "I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . (in) weeks rather than months."

These guys wouldn't lie to us.

I don't own a car.

Posted by Axiom at 2006-11-16 04:21 AM


maybe someday Mommy will buy you one.

Increase US troop levels by up to 20,000 to secure Baghdad


HAHAHAHAHAHA!! This is Bush's plan????
20,000 is a drop in the bucket. How about 200,000 or more??

Who cares what anyone says, generals or other-wise?

I know what is real.

Knowing simply what the OIL CARTEL GAME is, & that this govt is run by the OIL CARTEL....

......we can all "SEE" the murder & react to it as men should.


The phoney words we use to describe nothing at all!

REALITY is not a comic book!

(This may sound obvious but some people don't seem to know this yet)

WE merely read comic books & are amused, even by the comic book wars fought by comic book characters invented ultimately by comic men.

We "play" with comic book words like

terrorist
george bush
libs
dems
iraq
iran
israel

while we forget ALL OF THE REAL ONES THAT WE REALLY NEED

Why?

Because we have forgotton REALITY.

REALITY is not a comic book!

(Unfortunately i felt the need to say this once again)

Okay in fairness to Rummy, he said the war would take six months, maximum, but he never said which six months he meant.
Maybe these are the six months.
I mean, its only been 5 months since we sealed Baghdad off.
We need derfloki here to explain how great that worked.

Rob,
Gen. Shinseki was asked to retire because Rummy and he didn't see eye to eye.

North,
Pres. Clinton said we would be out of Bosnia in a year, I guess he forgot to tell us which one also. Not like these guys can read the future so at least admit both sides have made this mistake instead of your usual righties are always wrong about war but the left knows all.