Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Saturday, September 09, 2006

Thousands of students from Saudi Arabia are enrolling on college campuses across the United States this semester under a new educational exchange program brokered by President Bush and Saudi King Abdullah. [CBS News]

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I would be a little worried....

The quickest way to end intolerance is through integration.

I believe the manifest hatred required by "sleeper cells" that allows some zealots to live for years among people they intend to murder is a rare thing.

It is much more reasonable to believe that these students will get to know Americans as human beings like themselves and be incapable of of viewing us only as "demons", "pigs" and "dogs" deserving of slaughter.

It has been demonstrated that it is, in fact, not a "rare thing".

Ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod!

Does GZLives know about this?

How is it that a couple of Texans of Middle Eastern descent can get arrested on federal and state charges for buying cell phones in bulk in Michigan, but 15,000 Saudi students -- the same nationality as most of the 9/11 hijackers -- are eagerly brought here in a deal brokered by the president?

This is jaw-droppingly bizarre. Are we terrified of these people or not?

Data, how has it been "demonstrated"? As far as I know there have been only a handful of "sleeper cell" attacks throughout the world in the past decade. 9/11 of course being the most prominent one. But I would say such occurences are "rare" wouldn't you?

"This is jaw-droppingly bizarre. Are we terrified of these people or not?"

Bush is a liberal at his core and this is liberal policy at its finest.

Enjoy!

" how has it been "demonstrated"? "

How soon they forget.
idiot

The quickest way to end intolerance is through integration.

Or the quickest to infiltrate an enemy is through integration. Anyone else see this?

data, I asked you a reasonable question about your post to me and you call me a name. Why? Have I said something disrespectful to you to warrant that?

Boaz, are you saying that all Saudis are our enemy? If so, are you also saying that all muslims are our enemy? or all arabs?

Please clarify your position?

thanks.

are we sending 15,000 students to Saudi Arabia?

rcade, since cell-phones are used as detonators in IED's then the purchase of hundreds of them of them at a time by two Muslims would raise a red-flag.

While I believe Saudi students coming to this country should be monitored and "profiled" because of their origin, they should not be denied entry, or denied the right to study here.

truth, good question. I agree. We should send 15,000 students to saudi Arabia.

Neither they or us seem to understand each others culture.

We should send 15,000 students to saudi Arabia.

I thought that was the point of a student exchange.

Boaz, are you saying that all Saudis are our enemy?

No, but from the point of view of our enemy, that is the type of statement an enemy would make, that this is a way to get inside an enemy.

"We should send 15,000 students to saudi Arabia. "

Excellent idea!!

Doesn't anyone realize this is an evangelical effort to convert Americans.

The jihadi thing comes later.

But how about Bush!!!

Bringing them over here, so we don't have to go over there. I like it.

And I'm sure the Saudis like it as well, especially since we initiated the NSA-USA long distance calling card. Yep, Ahmed had better fly right because they'll be listening in Riyadh.

Boaz, I agree. That's why these students should have extensive background checks done and be monitored closely.

It would seem to me that most of the Demoocrats would welcome such a program which attempts to build back up the trust and goodwill they say was lost once Bush took office.

Would you be against 15,000 arab students in general? or only that the 15,000 students are from Saudi Arabia?

It's a good thing! We need to bridge the gaps in our cultures. And our colleges need to compete for bright students from all over the world.

My only concerns, and they aren't the security concerns of some, is simply that these students be safe in our schools and be treated as normal humans. (At the same time, I'd never allow my daughter to date one of those guys, no matter how much money they flashed around!)

I wonder, to, when will Saudi Arabia send an equal number of women students to the USA? Unfortunately, they are probably very sexist in their approach to women getting exposed to the liberal ways of the West.

I wonder, too, if Saudi will send an equal number of women to the USA? Is the society too afraid its women will be corrupted by the liberal ways of the West? Can Saudi handle the risk?

I do not think that any of the 9/11 group were students, not actual college students. I believe once these guys get over here our American college girls will make them mostly forget any fundamentalist BS that they might have been exposed to. Any real terrorist operational expert could walk right across the border any time he wanted so it would serve no purpose to keep these exchange students out.

THE SAUDI CONNECTION

Today's White House meeting between President Bush and the Saudi foreign minister, Prince Faisal, was hastily arranged at the Saudis' insistence. At issue -- classified portions of a congressional inquiry into the 9/11 attacks that was released last week. According to a brief description of the classified portions:

"The joint inquiry developed information suggesting specific sources of foreign support for some of the September 11 hijackers while they were in the United States."

Unnamed sources identified the Saudis as the chief source of foreign support for some of the hijackers. The Saudi ambassador, Prince Bandar, vehemently protested the report, and the leaked allegations. The inquiry's chairman, Senator Bob Graham of Florida, wrote the president yesterday, urging him to declassify the section. But today, the president and his aides refused.

www.pbs.org

Osama Bin Ladin-Saudi

14 Of 19 Hijackers-Saudi

Saudis Give Money to Suicide Bombers

Saudi Arabia is indicted by insinuation. It is an outrage to any sense of fairness that 28 blank pages are now considered substantial evidence to proclaim the guilt of a country that has been a true friend and partner to the United States for over 60 years

Thanks Bush !!!


All You Bush Apologist, What Is The Point, Truly What is The Point ?

-Sarge

The Missing 28 Pages

by Geov Parrish


Last month's release of a joint congressional committee's report on its investigation of the federal government's failure to detect or prevent 9/11 is not, we are told, even close to the final word on the subject. Even the classified version of the 800-page report contains numerous gaps, some of which will be filled by the greater access to existing intelligence and future documents or interrogations that will be available to former New Jersey Gov. Thomas Kean's newer, independent commission.

But some of those gaps are intentional, sections of the report redacted by the White House or CIA due to sensitive matters of intelligence, foreign policy, or national security. And of those passages, none is more glaring or important than the 28-page section that deals with support the 9/11 hijackers received from foreign governments -- mostly, according to inside sources, from officials in the government of Saudi Arabia.

www.eatthestate.org

Sure Sounds Strange To Me.

-Sarge

"My only concerns, and they aren't the security concerns of some, is simply that these students be safe in our schools and be treated as normal humans."

Face facts. While they're exposed to modern technology, their cultural beliefs and practices are more in line with the 12th Century. So they really aren't normal in the social sense.

"(At the same time, I'd never allow my daughter to date one of those guys, no matter how much money they flashed around!)"

Well we definitely don't want no miscegenation going on here in America.

LOL

First, I support this

"While I believe Saudi students coming to this country should be monitored and "profiled" because of their origin, they should not be denied entry, or denied the right to study here."

Second, although there are stark differences between the cultures, it isn't so much the cultural differences that have caused the problems or else why is it second generation children of immigrants that are getting involved in Jihad ie UK, Denmark and even here in the US where we just picked up a few naturalized Americans from Yemen (not second generation but obviously they'd been here more then just a few years).


Perhaps US immigration could bar all those who studied at religious schools known to teach intolerance and hate and that way it might help finish off these unholy places that have poisoned so many kids ...

The problem is coming from the religion and hos its being interpreted. Those who spread hate and intolerance should be deported and banned from teaching kids. Those kids who have already been exposed to it, should not be automatically allowed in the US.

What will be a real success is when 15,000 Saudi women come to US colleges. Bring on the Saudi gals!

Do that GZ, if applied fairly, Israelis would be banned from this country.

In addition to my previous post regarding backgrounds for US immigration:


"Estimates vary, but according to the Pakistan government's religious-affairs ministry, up to 1.5 million of Pakistan's 30 million school-age children study in the country's Islamic schools, or madrassas. Mostly they are the children of the poor, who choose the madrassa over failing government schools."

www.telegraph.co.uk

GZ,

Arab Bank empowered these terrorist groups "by serving as the 'paymaster' to the families of those terrorists who carried out suicide bombings," the Complaint charges. In particular, the defendant served, among other things, as the banker for a massive, government-supported fundraising campaign in Saudi Arabia that has funneled more than $4 billion from public and private Saudi sources to Palestinian terrorist groups and the families of suicide bombers. Arab Bank created and managed a formalized process which required beneficiaries to obtain an official certification of their deceased relative's status as a suicide bomber before receiving money.

www.featurexpress.com

www.factsandlogic.org

I would not trust them !

-Sarge

And NANOOK ... only a fool would deny we face a threat. Are you THAT FOOL?

I'm honored to be the official alarmist for the Drudge Retort. Those who think its paranoid probably live so far from a target, it makes sense for them not to believe or care about any of it. I wish I was one of those people.

Here in NYC where they are building the new towers which will replace the older ones - is anyone here about to make the argument that these towers once completed in a few years will not be a target?

Let that fool step forward and show himself.

Perhaps those who have nothing much to say except to attack me, never read anything about the subject ?

That would explain why they think nothing is different in this post 9.11 world and blame it all on George Bush.
I suggest they open their eyes ... and take a look around or suffer what the Europeans are now suffering with their own homegrown terror which is also a product of their own religious schools teaching the same hatred as is taught in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia and many of these Maddras schools ...

"Do that GZ, if applied fairly, Israelis would be banned from this country."

How so Ray ... ? You think Israeli schools teach Israelis that Muslims are pigs and dogs ? You think they teach them to kill Muslims ?

Sorry Ray ... show the evidence because you're just (as usual) completely wrong.

The problem with you Ray is you want so badly to make the argument that the Israelis are exactly the same as the Arabs ... but you can't. There's noJewish equivalent of these religious maddrass ... and I would know wouldn't I Ray ? Much more so then you .. don't you think ?

PBS - frontline: saudi time bomb?: analysis: madrassas

A madrassa is an Islamic religious school. Many of the Taliban were educated in Saudi-financed madrassas in Pakistan that teach Wahhabism, a particularly austere and rigid form of Islam which is rooted in Saudi Arabia. Around the world, Saudi wealth and charities contributed to an explosive growth of madrassas during the Afghan jihad against the Soviets. During that war (1979-1989), a new kind of madrassa emerged in the Pakistan-Afghanistan region -- not so much concerned about scholarship as making war on infidels. The enemy then was the Soviet Union, today it's America. Here are analysis of the madrassas from interviews with Vali Nasr, an authority on Islamic fundamentalism, and Richard Holbrooke, former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. (For more on the role of madrassas in producing militant Islamists, see the story of Haroun Fazul.)

www.pbs.org

Trolling For Trouble With Bush's Saudi Buddies

-Sarge

"And NANOOK ... only a fool would deny we face a threat. Are you THAT FOOL?"

How many Saudi students in the US have been arrested for terrorist activities, GZ? Talk about "fool," fool.

"I'm honored to be the official alarmist for the Drudge Retort."

More like the official nut case.

nothing is different in this post 9.11 world

Exactly what is different? Muslims hating Americans? That's nothing new. People willing to go to extreme lengths to attack the people who they perceive as an enemy? That's old hat.

The only thing that has changed, or rather disappeared, is the spine of the American population.

Stop being afraid of the boogeyman Arab.

Those who think its paranoid probably live so far from a target, it makes sense for them not to believe or care about any of it. I wish I was one of those people.


So move. Chapel Hill is very nice in the fall. But don't sit there and whine about how much more danger you're in just because you choose to live in NYC, and then blame the rest of us who don't live there for accusing you of being paranoid.

If you wke up in the morning worried about a possible attack that may kill you-you are very, very paranoid. Life is too short to jump at shadows.

Unless the shadows are ninja, of course. Then you should be very afraid.

You think they teach them to kill Muslims ?

Well, they're pretty damn good at it for being home-schooled, then.

GZ

You think they teach them to kill Muslims ?

It certainly comes out that way.

You think Israeli schools teach Israelis that Muslims are pigs and dogs ?

In what school did you learn that Muslims are below cockroaches?

First Ness ... if I could just wake up and move I'd be living in Vieques PR however circumstances demand I remain here - like an 83 year old mother who still works in a family business and will not stop working. I am the only child and I try and leave here as much as I can, but its not the same as packing up and leaving permanently which I would do in a heartbeat if I could.
There will be millions of NYers who will be waking up on Monday all wondering exactly the same thing ... what a perfect time for the next attack.

To you all outside of NY, the 11th will be just the five year anniversary of the 9/11 attack, but for us here in the city, its yet another opportunity, just like New Years Eve or whenever NYers celebrate an event that brings out large crowds. Everyday all of our tourist sites like the Statue of Liberty or Empire St Building might be hit. New yorkers think of that everytime they're near one of these landmarks.

And I'm certainly not alone in this mindset. Millions here feel exactly the same as I do.

brokered by President Bush and Saudi King Abdullah


Holden hands again. I wonder if the word Democracy ever come up, NOT!

I sure hope I never have to hear the spin about how it's the lefts fault, if a single one of these 'students' is responsible for a terror incident.

And this is what I love about you Ray

"You think they teach them to kill Muslims ?

It certainly comes out that way.

It certainly comes off that way ? To who Ray ? To you??
Hahahah Duhhhh of course to you it comes off that way however let me just show you how wrong you are.

If there were any truth to your "feeling" Ray ... don't you think it would be posted in every pro Arab Jew hating web site in the Universe ? With all the Hezbolliwood and Paliwood stagecraft, faked photos, stage events, walking corpses, sacrificing children to Baal ... if Israelis were teaching their kids the kind of crap the Muslims theach their kids about us, man you'd hear it ...

Needless to say ... your "feeling" is coming from that place Ray ... sad to say. Its wrong, there's no evidence, and chalk it up to your particular problems with Israelis and Israel ... know what I mean


You think Israeli schools teach Israelis that Muslims are pigs and dogs ?

In what school did you learn that Muslims are below cockroaches?"


Your a liar Ray .. a lowlife lying scumbag ... now you'll flag me right ?

I said ... RADICAL ISLAMISTS ... THUGS WHO KILL THEIR OWN KIDS TO SCORE A PR VICTORY ARE COCKROACHES ....

WHO here would disagree with me ?

SO stop fu**ing lying already. It just proves you have nothing of value to contribute. your all full of yourself and you've nothing Ray ... nothing but pretense,
You know nothing about this issue excepot what you "feel" and its clear what that i. I think its testiment to my patientce that I don't call you out as what you so clearly are ...

"It certainly comes off that way " ? I mean .. THAT'S your evidence Ray ? Hmmmmm if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...

If New Yorkers are uncomfortable GZ, you can thank your kind for that. Now try to imagine what it feels like to live in Iraq, Gaza, West Bank, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria and Lebanon.

I said ... RADICAL ISLAMISTS ... THUGS WHO KILL THEIR OWN KIDS TO SCORE A PR VICTORY ARE COCKROACHES ....

Who are you kidding/ Israeli policy is to kill as many as they can just to be sure.

"To you all outside of NY, the 11th will be just the five year anniversary of the 9/11 attack"

Another sweeping generalization from the prince of generalizations (and king of cockroach watchers).

You might want to give Simon Jenkins a looky-see:

The Weekend's 9/11 Horror-Fest Will Do Osama bin Laden's Work for Him

This repetitious publicity glorifies terrorism as a weapon of war, scaring us far more than the original explosions did


www.commondreams.org

"Hmmmmm if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ..."

For you, GZL? It's probably a cockroach or a family of lice.

"If New Yorkers are uncomfortable GZ, you can thank your kind for that. Now try to imagine what it feels like to live in Iraq, Gaza, West Bank, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria and Lebanon."

And what exactly is MY KIND Ray ?

"This repetitious publicity glorifies terrorism as a weapon of war, scaring us far more than the original explosions did"

Where were you that day Doc ? What part of the world were you in because I'm curious how you would know anything about "scaring us" if you were someplace else aside from DC, NYC, or a field in Pennsylvania ?

Did you ever see groups of humans jumping from windows to their death? I'm not talking about a movie or TV Doc .. the real deal ? Ever see it? ever find yourself in a city of ashes ... whre parades of people who just looked like they saw death are walking around as if in a trance ?

What do you know about it Doc except for some intellectual masturbation that you confuse here as if its some xpertise on the subject ?

Just curious

And what exactly is MY KIND Ray ?

ROFLMAO

After we have argued for so long, are you going to make me have to tell you again?

whre parades of people who just looked like they saw death are walking around as if in a trance ?

Sounds like Iran and Lebanon.

What was the country of origin of the majority of the 9-11 highjackers.

What country can get Bush to do anything they want because he has sold his soul for oil.

What country can send its citizens to commit (and fund) any terrorist acts in the U.S. that it wants to and be give a pass from ANY retribution by the Bush Crime Family?

What country's population majority practices the very radical and most intolerant of others form of Islam known as
WAHHABI MUSLIMS

YOU GUESSED IT - SAUDI ARABIA

Why would we want to take a chance with 15,000 students from Saudi Arabia who has done NOTHING for the American people except send almost 19 of its citizens here to slaughter Americans.

If the fool Bush and his phoney DHS which does nothing can't even manage to keep track of only 6 Egyptian students who came here on student visas a few weeks ago but never showed up at the school they were to attend and we had to hunt them down and find them, then what makes anyone think this idiot Bush can assure the whereabouts of 15,000 Saudis (who mostly all probably practice radical Wahhabism).

Last question -- what kind of oil deal $$$$$ did Bush get for HIMSELF by selling out our country's security by bringing in 15,000 Saudi "students." Beware the enemy from within and beware our enemies in this Administration.

Correction

Sounds like Iraq and Lebanon. Not Iran yet.

Smell good up in Ray's rectum Doc ?

Posted by GZlives at 2006-09-09 01:03 PM


Geeeze, spare me you guys. I haven't even had breakfast yet out here hahahaha

GZ can kiss my ass.

www.goodspeedupdate.com">Did you ever see groups of humans jumping from windows to their death? I'm not talking about a movie or tv... -- GZ LIVES

News update -- Bush okays deal to bring 15,000 Saudi "students" to USA. We only need 19 of them to repeat the scene in the link above.

I agree with GZ on this issue. 15,000 is tooooooo many to keep track of students who came from the country that directly supplied the majority of the 9-11 terrorists. Does ANYONE trust Bush to really keep track of these "students"?

are we sending 15,000 students to Saudi Arabia?
How about 15000 special forces? They could install democracy and destroy the wahabist hating American imams too. Better yet, 15,000 jewish American feminists. Make old King suckmydick's head explode.

This is only 1000 times the number of saudis it took for 9-11. No problem.
If they do anything wrong, Bush will simply charter a plane for them to go home and then censor any investigation. Most of the righties here will support him, as long as he doesn't get a bj from any of the saudis first.

So let's see...

Arabs planned, financed, and perpetrated 9/11...
and Bush's dad has received at least $1 Billion from the Saudis, and $500 Million from the Binladens...

and somehow, instead of finishing the job in Afghanistan and capturing Osama... we attacking one non-Arab country, and now the ReichWingers want to attack another non-Arab nation.

Obviously conservatives don't remember 9/11. Or maybe they do, and they just are happy New York was attacked.

Bush couldn't keep track of his dick if it wasn't attached.

Wahhabists see their role as a movement to restore Islam from what they perceive to be innovations, superstitions, deviances, heresies and idolatries. There are many practices that they believe are contrary to Islam, such as:

Pictures of Human Beings

Since the USA is now "politically correct" to the point of me wanting to vomit, are the colleges these 15,000 Saudi "students" are going to attend now have to blackout every single photo of a human being in all their textbooks?

however circumstances demand I remain here - like an 83 year old mother who still works in a family business and will not stop working.

If she's 83 and still working, it seems like she can take care of herself. If she's 83 and working, but requires you to take care of her, I think it's time you find a nice place in the country and let her retire.

If, on the other hand, she's 83, working, and doesn't need your help-yet you choose to live near her anyway...well, my friend, you're a momma's boy.

Wow. Good comeback.

Great spelling of the word "expertise" in your 1:08 post.

Wahhh.

From another thread on this site:

Saudi Police Ban Dog & Cat Sale
"One bad habit spreading among our youths is the acquisition of dogs and showing them off in the streets and malls,"

"This is blind emulation of the infidels."


I guess now Bush will ban all cats and dogs on ALL of the college campuses to attended by any of these 15,000 Saudi "students." The other students will be allowed no cats or dogs as pets because we don't want to "offend" any of the Saudi "students" here attending college.

By the way, you left out the letter "e" that I forgot to include in "stereotypical"

Wahhhh..

"If, on the other hand, she's 83, working, and doesn't need your help-yet you choose to live near her anyway...well, my friend, you're a momma's boy. "

who said "she doesn't need my help" ?

where did that come from ? Your imagination becasue I sure didn;t say it.

You're obviosuly just looking for some way to criticize me.

Do you know anyone 83 because if you did you'd know saying she needn't need any help was silly.

Everyone at that age form time to time needs some help ..

But I know you really just wanted to get in that "momma's boy" thing didn;t you.

I'll just say this ness ... I spent twenty years producing more then a dozen albums for a well known Heavy Metal band and often going out on the road with them traveling all over the world . . . use your imagination, I may be a lot of things but a momma's boy is not one of them.

however circumstances demand I remain here - like an 83 year old mother who still works in a family business and will not stop working.

That's good you're doing that. I'm in a similar situation now only my Mom is 87 and suffered a stroke and has had two broken hips so she can't manage on her own at all so I moved back home. You should take as much time as you can with your Mom. You won't get a second chance later on.

I may be a lot of things but a momma's boy is not one of them.

Nothing wrong with loving your Mom.

GZ

I may be wrong but I think Ness is in his 20's -- when you think you Mom will be around forever. When he's older he'll understand it better.

"This is blind emulation of the infidels."



What year is this?
I thought I watched a spaceship take off this morning and suddenly it's 1262.

BWAHHHHHHAAAAA!!!

"Heavy Metal Band"!

Yeah, OK.

The overall good of having so many foreign students in the US outweighs the potential danger. The vast majority come here and realize we are not the evil powers which their local clerics probably taught them. They see that we are decent and compassionate people deeply concerned with fair play and being generous. I wish every foreigner who hated America would spend two years here. I think their ranks would diminish down to next to nothing. For those who the ordinary people of this country, the goodness of the US speaks for itself.

Do you know anyone 83

I had a 100 year old hospice patient a few years back.

I may be wrong but I think Ness is in his 20's -- when you think you Mom will be around forever.

That might be true if my father hadn't already died.

I may be wrong but I think Ness is in his 20's

I'll be 24 on New Years Eve. Be sure to have a drink in my honor.

Cheers, Ness, you can count on it.

"Do you know anyone 83"

My father-in-law is 84.
He just remarried.

Ness, you're four months older than my youngest.

"Nothing wrong with loving your Mom."

You're a fine man Chris to make that point, and GZ deserves congratulations for doing what every man should do.

And in my opinion, anyone who would equate the care of a parent with statement that attempts to degrade the caregiver is beneath contempt.

I spent 8 months providing daily care for my father who died abruptly in his sleep of a massive stroke, giving credence to the old saying that Death Comes Like a Thief in the Night.

My mother was five months in hospice. Her breast cancer had gone systemic, and finally colonized her lungs. I held her hand as she struggled for her last breath.

Difficult as it was, I've never regretted the effort, or even the loss of income. In fact I'd recommend it to any man who wishes to develop his character. There's definitely something to be gained, though it is beyond words to describe.

Ultimately it is a moral debt repaid, as they cared for you when you were least able, so it is fitting that you should care for them.

I propose a simple test for these 15,000 Saudis. We need to know if they're sane or not.

So show each of them one of the Denmark Mohammad cartoons that sparked the riots.
If their head doesn't explode, they can stay.

Oh, and keep them away from the flight schools.

from the article

The kingdom's royal family -- which is paying full scholarships for most of the 15,000 students -- says the program will help stem unrest at home by schooling the country's brightest in the American tradition.

Yeah, great, send all your young radicals over to our country and hope we can cool them down. And make sure they get the best education in engineering and aviation and physics and any other subjects they can use in various methods to blow us up.

I'm sick of these countries who flood us with their populations (legally or illegally) so that they don't have to deal with all their societal problems back in their own countries and instead foist it on the backs of Americans.

It only took 17 Saudis (out of the 19 hijackers) to murder 3000 Americans on 9-11. Imagine what 15,000 Saudis can accomplish with the help of the Saudi government and the traitor Bush.

The Saudis are filthy rich. Why can't they build their own universities and hire American teachers IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. I could care less whether or not the Saudis like us.

To me, there's no question what the real motivaton is here.

From the article:

"The Saudi scholarship program has definitely heightened our interest in that part of the world," said Kenneth Holland, associate provost for international programs. "Not only are the students fully funded, but they're also paying out-of-state tuition."

That last sentence should have an exclamation point. I can feel him drooling.Nothing hightens interest in some one else's culture like a handful of cash.

Ness, you're four months older than my youngest.

Oh yeah? Is she single?

*shotgun pumps*

I mean, uh...

(I'm assuming that it's a daughter...)

so it is fitting that you should care for them.

I agree. And I would like to apologize to GZ for being an asshole. I was a freshman in college when my father was diagnosed with colon cancer. I had to spend "the beast years of my life" watching him waste away to nothing. I stood by, unable to do anything, as he became a bedridden, helpless blob. I thought to myself: My father? The strong, undefeatable man who raised me, who taught me to recognize bullshit, and, more importantly, taught me how to cope with negative situations with a smile and a "fuck it".

I failed him. When he was terminally ill, I was selfish, and avoided him. I couldn't stand to be in a room with him-I simply couldn't stand seeing him like that. I knew at the time that I would regret being so distant. But even that knowledge didn't change my behavior.

He died a little over 3 years ago, on July 26th, 2003. He spent his last months in Michigan, under the care of his sister, because my mother and I were too busy to take care of him down in NC.

I miss him a lot. We were never extremely close when he was alive. He loved me very much, but for some reason we neer had much in common growing up. I doubt that he resented the fact that I was adopted, and not of his own seed-he was always so proud of me for that to be the case. But for some reason, there was a disconnect. One that I will never be able to understand now.

Sorry to ramble on like that. I felt kind bad about taking such a cheap shot to GZ.

I still think you're a paranoid sonofabitch, but it was wrong of me to be so low. I try to be more respectful than that with my fellow Drudgemates.(Except Niceville)

Once again, my apologies.

d'oh- beast years = best years.

neer = never

That is all.

or not: kind= kinda

"But for some reason, there was a disconnect. One that I will never be able to understand now."

I think that far more men feel the same way than do not. Often there's a bit of competitiveness between father and son, and then there's the communication thing.

I was twice your age before I really figured it out, and I spent a lot time working on it. For what it's worth, it usually has more to do with the father than the son.

For what it's worth, it usually has more to do with the father than the son.

That's somewhat comforting, I guess. it just pisses me off that I knew i would regret not spending time with him while he was dying. I basically predicted then that I would feel the way I do now, and I was right. Why did I still choose to do what I did? That's what bothers me.

My father died unexpectedly in his sleep at 76. I still regret not being able to see him before hand, although we did get together at a family event 2 weeks earlier. This past winter my ex father-in-law's throat cancer reoccurred and got to his brain. He was a teacher and a wise man and to see him lose his abilities, and know he knew he was losing them was worse. He must have realized in the fall what was going to happen because he demanded his far flung children get together for Christmas and he was gone right after New Years.

Ness

I failed him. When he was terminally ill, I was selfish, and avoided him. I couldn't stand to be in a room with him-I simply couldn't stand seeing him like that. I knew at the time that I would regret being so distant. But even that knowledge didn't change my behavior.

You didn't fail him. If I think it was anything, it was your age that made you have the most trouble in accepting it being terminal. My Dad died of Alzheimer complications at age 74 and I look back now and think of all the questions (about his time in the Marines, stuff he did, etc.) I could have asked him over the years but didn't because I was too absorbed in my own life and being young I took him for granted and felt he would always be there.

One seems to appreciate things and relationships more when you get older and you value your parents more because you realize they will not always be around -- something that you don't dwell on much in your teens, 20's or even 30's.

You probably didn't do different regarding your time spent or not spent with your Dad than most guys your age. Besides, your Dad is probably around you and in your life more than you realize. Things that remind me of my Dad come up at the oddest times and I really believe it's a "sign or signal" from him just letting me know he's around. Right after he died he and my Mom's bedroom had a stong smell of his shoe polish. He had an old fashioned shoe shine bucket that he used all the time -- being a former Marine Captain he was into spit shines -- but the shoe polish in it never had a strong smell unless he actually had the polish can out and opened and was putting it on his shoes. But for just a few days after he died, even though the shoeshine bucket was closed and not even out, the smell of his shoeshine polish was unmistakable. Who knows.

NG and Chris:

Thanks, I can't say I feel less guilty, but it helps to know that others have similar experiences. The day my father died was sunny and clear. I went out around lunchtime to grab a sandwich. On the way back, it suddenly started raining-even though there were no storm clouds and the sun was still shining. It only lasted about five minutes, so I didn't think much of it. About 10 minutes after I got home, my aunt called me and told me that he had died about 15 minutes earlier.

I like to think that the rain was a sign of my father's death, as superstitious and coincidental as it was. I never used to be a believer of omens, but that certainly made a very strong impression.

And Chris, you're right-now that my father is gone I realize how much of him is in me; what I say, how I say it, how I react to different situations, etc. He is very much alive in me, for better or worse.

He was a teacher and a wise man and to see him lose his abilities, and know he knew he was losing them was worse

I just finished my course in oncology, so I've been studying cancer for the past couple weeks. I try to put myself in the shoes of someone who is diagnosed as terminal, and all I can think is that I would just commit suicide. Yet, many people take such a diagnosis in stride and cope with it-some even are able to look past their iminent doom, and enjoy their short remiander of time on earth.

How do people get that kind of strength?

I don't think I'm nearly that strong.

Ness

I failed him. When he was terminally ill, I was selfish, and avoided him. I couldn't stand to be in a room with him-I simply couldn't stand seeing him like that. I knew at the time that I would regret being so distant. But even that knowledge didn't change my behavior.

yes, you did fail him. your love was conditional, and that is not really love. sorry I can't sugar coat it for you.

sorry I can't sugar coat it for you.

I don't expect you to. I have long since accepted the situation.

As the Japanese say: Shigata ga nai.

Roughly translated: There is no proper form of behavior for this situation. Therefore it must not be dwelled upon.

p.s. - You're being a bit presumptuous.

and that is not really love.

I try not to resort to personal attacks, but this comment requires a big fat "fuck you."

How dare you assume that I didn't love my father. You don't even know me.

Jackass.

I still think you're a paranoid sonofabitch, but it was wrong of me to be so low. I try to be more respectful than that with my fellow Drudgemates.(Except Niceville)

Apology accepted Ness and sorry about your dad.

SMOOCH!!!

15,000 potential terrorists now in our colleges, but hey!
let's kill some more Iraqis.

"15,000 Saudis enroll in U.S."?!

Please someone tell Spud they're not ALL in flightschool?!

Be Well.

Ness asks serious question...

"How do people get that kind of strength?"

Spud don't know. Seen it. Still can't figure it.

"I don't think I'm nearly that strong"

Hopefully you'll never have to find out.

Be Well.

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