"Reason No. 1: Cost of fuel"

That's what you call ironic.

My solution would be to do what Major League sports has done and sell off the name of the Forts to huge corporations in order to finance the day-to-day ops.

Instead of the historically obscure "Fort Sam Houston" how about Fort Time-Warner?

Or instead of Fort Bragg (named after Indian killer-Mexican killer-Confederate General-Jeff Davis-bootlick-monobrow Braxton Bragg) how about "Fort NexTel"?

We should have our troops on the free market, anyone can buy them to do whatever, and pay them what the market shall bear.

More proof positive that the Bush administration is incompetent...

What kind of message does this send to our enemies? The United States in a time of war cannot provide enough money to provide for it's military...

body armor, spare parts, etc etc The fact is that this "war" has been botched...

Incompetence in the Secretary of Defense and incomptence of the President of the United States.

I'm curious...does anyone else (yes, repulsican neocons, too) remember this ever happening in the past? I mean come on...the Army of the United States of America can't buy a PEN at home? This would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

So, how's progress on the George W. Shrub Memorial Highway in Iraq? Coming along nicely, is it?

Fort Aramco?
Paris Hilton needed her tax cut far more than the military needs telephones, apparently.
Maybe Niceville can do a muffin sale to raise money for them.

"Fort Aramco?"

More likely, Fort Bechtel and Fort Halliburton.

I'm curious...does anyone else (yes, repulsican neocons, too) remember this ever happening in the past? I mean come on...the Army of the United States of America can't buy a PEN at home? This would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

So, how's progress on the George W. Shrub Memorial Highway in Iraq? Coming along nicely, is it?

Posted by DawnGlo at 2006-07-07 08:35 AM | Reply


Dawnglo,
Don't you remember not having enough ammo to do live fire excersises when you were in the military? Don't you remember having to walk halfway across base to find an open chow hall? Can't you remember the times that your barraks were in shambles and there was no money for repair?
How long has it been since you got out of the military? Wow, it's only been 11 years since my last active duty day and I remember that stuff pretty clearly.

If there is as much cash for arms as there is for maintenence and utilities this seems to be another example of SNAFU.

Cricket...cricket...cricket

The sick mess that is Iraq and its consequences drags on and on.

One thing that Bush has had going for him since his Presidency began is that there is simply so much incompetence and sheer bloody uselessness that pointing out even half of it seems like bitter partisanship.

This is just the latest incident in a long catalog notable only for the irony of there not being enough money to pay the fuel bills of the army at home and abroad because of an ongoing elective war over oil. A war that drags on and on because of that same governmental incompetence and gobbles up an ever more unsustainable share of our national treasure.

Murtha's Fault (TM).

"Don't you remember not having enough ammo to do live fire excersises when you were in the military?"

Nope.

"Don't you remember having to walk halfway across base to find an open chow hall?"

Nope.

"Can't you remember the times that your barraks were in shambles and there was no money for repair?"

Nope.

Best you show us the documented proof of this or once again be just the little liar.

PS. I would think that if you actually slept in a "barrack" you would at least know how to spell barracks, (I was unaware that any military branch accepted retards and morons).

"I was unaware that any military branch accepted retards and morons"

YEAH! But that was before the buffoon-in-chief cheapened the military into a street gang of thugs and criminals.

Go Bush! Always on the half-ass.

I'm curious...does anyone else (yes, repulsican neocons, too) remember this ever happening in the past?

Posted by DawnGlo at 2006-07-07 08:35 AM | Reply

To add to what 101 said .... hell yeah, all the time.

We were constantly being told to conserve supplies, to re-use stuff, and just do without. Right about this time of year most of the money dries up, waiting for the new fiscal year (like trying to see a Canadian doctor in November).

My job in the Air Force had me frequently leaving the base, and I usually took my own car because of the availability of a military vehicle.

In North Dakota, in the dead of winter (-30) they'd turn down the heat in the barracks. We had to conserve energy so the bombers could stay warm. Several aircraft were scavenged like ""parts cars" because they couldn't buy spare parts.

I went to school at an Army post and saw cardboard in broken windows, vehicles on blocks. In the dining hall we could only have two vegetables.

This article is obviously from some idiot who has no knowledge of the military.

This article is obviously from some idiot who has no knowledge of the military.

Posted by vernon at 2006-07-07 11:38 AM | Reply

And so are the replies from most of the idiots above ours.

"In North Dakota, in the dead of winter (-30) they'd turn down the heat in the barracks. We had to conserve energy so the bombers could stay warm. Several aircraft were scavenged like ""parts cars" because they couldn't buy spare parts."

Conserving something you have and not having it AT ALL are NOT the same things.

"I went to school at an Army post and saw cardboard in broken windows, vehicles on blocks. In the dining hall we could only have two vegetables."

Damn dude, thats roughing it!! How can you have carrots, wihtout peas?!?!? I know that I need AT LEAST three veggies on my plate at all times. Cardboard in broken windows?? My neighbors have had blue tarps on their roofs for the past 9 months, and hurricane shutters and duct tape for windows, and their relying on Citizens Insurance (Fla's state funded insurance company) for a check to repair thats been "in the mail" for 8 months.... looks like Bushco (TM) whereever they are, be it Jeb or George, screw things up!!

Again...cricket, cricket cricket...

Sorry Chair, but I thought this admin was pro military? How can you be pro military and allow this kind of crap going on? Are they really being run by this kind of incompetence? Aren't we supposed to have one of the best militaries in the world?

Sorry Chair, but I thought this admin was pro military? How can you be pro military and allow this kind of crap going on? Are they really being run by this kind of incompetence? Aren't we supposed to have one of the best militaries in the world?

Posted by bigjohn_1972 at 2006-07-07 01:40 PM |


Shouldn't you be addressing that towards the entity that funds the military? Or are you taking another cheap shot at our military a la the media and every Liberal.

"Again... cricket,cricket,cricket"

Hearing those voices in your head again Chairpoodle?

Shouldn't you be addressing that towards the entity that funds the military?

Like the Republican run House, Senate and White House?

Like the Republican run House, Senate and White House?


Posted by northguy3 at 2006-07-07 02:10 PM |

Like the Congress. Repubs and Democrats.

BTW. They (the military) could have asked for more money and it would have been approved. But go ahead and follow John down the blame Bush road to failure for Democrats.

Posted by bigjohn_1972 at 2006-07-07 01:40 PM | Reply

Pro-military or "ambivalent-military" doesn't seem to matter John.
I was in during Clinton's terms and as you can see I experienced the same shit. Vern seemed to be in during either Reagan or Bush, and he saw the same things as well.
It's not the funding, it's the military. Beaurocratic (horrible misspell) nightmares abound.
No toilet paper, hamburgers of some kind for lunch and dinner every day for a week, bedding unavailable, etc...There are shortfalls, there are abundances, there are times with nothing. Adapt and overcome.
This article if anything reinforces that the military has been and always will be a paperwork SNAFU.
I know a ton of the limp wrists here take what Sarge says as the gospel, so if he's around ask him. I am more than confident that this is absolutely par for the course. Those in this thread saying the opposite or adding nothing as usual are empty heads.

Chair, Vern,
Are you telling this was SOP when you guys were in???? I was in from 76-80 and NONE of this shit happened. We didn't get filet but all the mess halls were open, we had all the pens we wanted and the barracks were tolerable...as much as WWII barracks could have been.
If the answer is yes, this is more than a minor annoyance. It's a travesty.

I was in from 76-80 and NONE of this shit happened.

Posted by evilpolock at 2006-07-07 02:39 PM

Much different time back then. I remember the $85.00 hammers or wrenches.

FYI
This year, though, most of the defense money in the $94.5 billion bill was earmarked for the war, leaving little to pay back operations accounts, Gertler said.

Military officials could have asked for more money to ease the garrison budget crunch, but they knew a bigger request would have created a bigger fight in Congress, he said.

"The Pentagon is reluctant to ask for any more than they need for the war because it all looks like it's going to the war and becomes a very controversial bill," Gertler said.

BTW. They (the military) could have asked for more money and it would have been approved. But go ahead and follow John down the blame Bush road to failure for Democrats.

Posted by crispee_oc at 2006-07-07 02:16 PM

Certainly one can quite easily blame this admin, or republicans in general for failures. They are in control of all branches of government, if there is a shortfall, it really is their fault!


I was in during Clinton's terms and as you can see I experienced the same shit. Vern seemed to be in during either Reagan or Bush, and he saw the same things as well.
It's not the funding, it's the military. Beaurocratic (horrible misspell) nightmares abound.
This article if anything reinforces that the military has been and always will be a paperwork SNAFU.


Posted by 101Chairborne at 2006-07-07 02:23 PM

That is fine, but what then makes this admin "pro military" as everyone espouses? And what does living in squalor do to the troops moral? I think these are legitimate points.

Crispee,
I'm not sure I buy that. As well as the republicans do at PR, not to mention the fact this is just plain wrong, if they bang this drum loud enough, even Kucinich will vote for more funds.

Evil,
Kucinich supporting more funds for the military? That may be a stretch. Seems to me if they will fund billions for a war they can find a few million here and there for the bases in the USA.I think this story is being exploited and agree with Chairborne.

Evil,
The barracks were a nightmare but 1 mile down the road the Air Force bastards had seperate entrance rooms with kick ass accomodations.
Chow Halls were routinely closed down. We continually ate some form of the leftovers from the night or week before.
Toilet paper was always missing. Nobody, and I mean nobody was deemed combat ready due to missing or broken equipment, but everyone made due.
It had no affect on morale (we were Infantry and used to getting the short end of the stick...in fact it was a source of pride).
We routinely stole what we didn't have from other units.

As for the bills not being paid as the article alludes...That would be something I was unaware of. The article itself (if you are buying everything else in it you'd have to buy into this as well) states that they have the same amount of money in the budget for bill paying as they do "arms making" so there is no excuse for not being able to pay the bills.
It's just mismanagement of funds, red tape, and miscommunication...That sounds like the military I know. The good news is it's still better than all of the others.

It's just mismanagement of funds, red tape, and miscommunication...That sounds like the military I know. The good news is it's still better than all of the others.

Posted by 101Chairborne at 2006-07-07 02:52 PM

That begs the question, says who?

"The barracks were a nightmare"
"Chow Halls were routinely closed down"
"Toilet paper was always missing"

So where is the documented historical references to all this?
Do you mean to tell us it evaporated from the public record? Are there no photos? Letters home? News broadcasts? Military records? Newspaper articles? Letters to the editor?

I mean, I can find many, many documents about the supplies and conditions from the civil war, yet you can't produce the documents, (not even one) that confirms your tales from last decade.
The only confirmation you offers is testimony from vern, a proven liar who has zero credibility, (much like yours).

Excuse me while I say Bushit!

Chair, first of all, I am pretty sure I've mentioned before that I am a 58 year old working mother of 3 grown children. Last time I looked we do not live in Israel and women are not conscripted into the armed services. No, I never served. No, I am not ashamed of that fact. My life has been very full and productive, thank you very much.

Next, I was ASKING the question because before I commented I wanted to know if this is SOP or something new from the friendly folks who have brought us Katrina, out-of-sight oil prices, etc. Apparently this is something that has been an ongoing issue for our country for some time now and no matter who is in charge, it is outrageous that with all the bucks floating around Washington, they can't find money to pay the electric bills for our army bases on time.

How IS the George W. Shrub Memorial Highway progressing in Iraq, anyway? Bet that's eating up the $$$ big time! Ah well, whenever I think of our boys in uniform shivering in the cold because the heat has been disconnected, I'll warm myself by thinking of how WELL Helliburton is doing these days. I am SURE the military is also pleased.

The only confirmation you offers is testimony from vern, a proven liar who has zero credibility, (much like yours).

Excuse me while I say Bushit!

Posted by I_AM_SAM944 at 2006-07-07 03:03 PM

You want proof there is bureaucratic red tape and shortfalls?

That begs the question, says who?

Posted by bigjohn_1972 at 2006-07-07 02:55 PM | Reply

If you've ever had the luxury of training with other countries militaries they'll tell you (after you wade through all of the shit about how their individual unit is better than yours).
Of course there are plenty of pieces of equipment that they'd prefer over ours, but on the whole that isn't the case.

When Tunde posts ask him if he experienced similar short comings in the British Army.

Coco_am_Sam,
Letters home about a shoddy barracks? Letters home about lack of TP? Letters home about having to walk to an out of the way chowhall?...Not everyone is as big of a nancyboy as you are for crying out loud.
Tell me again how everyone in Canada speaks French...

You want proof there is bureaucratic red tape and shortfalls?

Posted by crispee_oc at 2006-07-07 03:09 PM | Reply


No Crispee, he just wants to be acknowledged. He's like a stray dog.

Ah well, whenever I think of our boys in uniform shivering in the cold because the heat has been disconnected, I'll warm myself by thinking of how WELL Helliburton is doing these days. I am SURE the military is also pleased.

Posted by DawnGlo at 2006-07-07 03:06 PM

You just can't make this stuff up.

Amazing how liberals like Dawn believe the Government is your friend and knows what is best for you and how to spend our tax money. They think the Government is flawless except when a republican has power. Then it becomes a corrupt scandal and blame everything on Bush and Haliburton.

Last time I looked it was the Democrats who have been hurting our military not Bush and Company.

"You want proof there is bureaucratic red tape and shortfalls?"

I want documented evedence of the issues 101 and vern are claiming.

You know, that thing called "history". Of which we have a giant library in Washington built just to hold such things, (like all the invoices, troop movements, requests, bases, inventories, conditions etc, etc that I can get going all the way back to the revolutionary war by a few mouse clicks).

I don't need proof of "bureaucratic red tape". I need proof of their claims validated by documents, news articles, letters home, etc, etc.
Show us its not a lie.

Last time I looked it was the Democrats who have been hurting our military not Bush and Company.

Dissenting opinions do less harm to our soldiers than incohesive military strategies with unclear goals.

You're sure doing one hell of a job whining about it now Chairpoodle.

Last time I looked it was the Democrats who have been hurting our military not Bush and Company.

Dissenting opinions do less harm to our soldiers than incohesive military strategies with unclear goals.

Posted by Pleasantville at 2006-07-07 03:22 PM |

You mean the dissenting opinions of Murtha, Kerry, Kennedy, Dean.How is calling the military rapists, murderers, crazed killers, broken... Nice argument for the funding needed at home.

The strategy is to kill as many enemies as possible. The goal is to WIN. Clear enough?

Itsy,
I must have done some number on you under your usual handle for you to be so obsessed. It warms my heart. Carry on puppet.

besides cutting out the poor"

How does it cut out the poor if the voter ID bill contains a provision that any poor person could get it for free?

"I could make an argument that having to show an ID may take away your right to vote in private."

Then make it.

Posted by JOE at 2006-07-07 03:31 PM |


Joe,
They use the poor as their pawns for making you feel guilty. This is the same argument the poor pay to much taxes. Even though they don't pay anything it is just a good bumper sticker.

If the military can't afford pens they need to stop buying them from defense contractors.

What does a Halliburton ball point pen run these days anyway? $100? $200?

"Last time I looked it was the Democrats who have been hurting our military not Bush and Company."

YEAH! Sending troops into battle without proper equipment and no plan for getting out isn't NOT taking care of them you know. So is not paying the bills!
It's called "tough love"!

Go Bush! Let Daddy pay for it.

Part of that last post deserves repeating:

The Chairman's attitude mirrors the attitude of this Congress; it is one of total disrespect for veterans and it must not stand. The most recent example of this disturbing trend is the changes enacted to the long standing rules that allowed our VSOs to testify before Congress on issues relating to veterans. Republican or Democrat, we should all be appalled by the thought that our veteran leadership is being marginalized when it comes to the most critical issues facing our soldiers and veterans.

Up-Armored High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles

On April 21, 2005, 17 Republicans joined Senate Democrats in passing S. Amdt. 520 to the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations of 2005 (H.R.1268), by a vote of 61-39. The amendment, introduced by Senator Bayh and co-sponsored by Senators Kennedy, Cantwell, and Bill Nelson, provides an additional $213 million for Up-Armored High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles for the Armed Forces. H.R. 1268 passed in the House on March 16, 2005 by a vote of 388-43. The bill passed the Senate on April 21, 2005 by a vote of 99-0. The conference report, which provides for $150 million, was agreed to in the House on May 5, 2005 by a vote of 368-58 and unanimously passed in the Senate on May 10, 2005. The bill was signed into law by the President on May 11, 2005.

Now, what was that again about who is hurting our military?

Hans

Regardless of wheather this is sop for the military or not; the contention(at least by implication) that this is the way it should be in A TIME OF "WAR" is simply an amazing rationalization...


It would be very interesting to see a study of the numbers regarding this 'adventure' in Iraq, comparing the money spent on the military effort vs. the money spent employing mega corporation and private security corps.

I wonder if the results would support the contention by Mr. bush and those supporting him; that they truely support the troops or in reality support the 'rights' of corps to profit from this war and occupation...(at the expense of course of our troops and the iraqi people..and the afghanis as well).

The electorate of this country had better begin to realize we must find and elect leaders who possess both strategic and fiscal competance...

One quick and easy way to give our troops a raise is to eliminate income tax if you are in the military. Congress always says no, the rich assholes. Our soldiers and thier families on food stamps? And a lot of that. They should be treated like royalty like other countries.Military, you dont pay taxes, ever, while you serve ,and if you give 20 years you never pay income tax again,period.Incentives like this will ensure the good people keep joining up.Now let the bashing begin.

101,

This samething happens every year, It's the End of the Fiscal Year and Money Is Short.

We have discussed this before, and either you are over or under trying to make Every Penny count until October.

Though the long term effect of Iraq will impact the Forecast Budget.

-Sarge

Rummy's war on the cheap seems to be far less cheap than one would think.

But hey, "Deficits Don't Matter", so I guess everything is ok.

I feel conflicted. On the one hand these no bid contracts and unlimited spending on the war on terror are draining the treasury, countries have gone broke before because of war.On the other hand it sure is nice making a shitload of money by working in Iraq.

body armor, spare parts, etc etc The fact is that this "war" has been botched...

Incompetence in the Secretary of Defense and incomptence of the President of the United States.

Posted by Scarey_e

I must disagree; there are lots of "spare parts". They are in body bags in Dover, Delaware.

Putin sits in Moscow after reading this story and chuckles quietly to himself.
He wonders how the moron in Washington could not have remembered Russia's disastrous attempt to invade and occupy Afghanistan and is amazed that the US not only repeats their mistake but arrogantly thinks it can afford to invade and occupy Iraq at the same time.
Approx. a half trillion now down the drain and still counting yet righties here blame the short fall of cash on bureaucrats and gas prices.
Meanwhile wealthy supporters of the war invest the dollars they saved in the tax cuts and brag about what great patriots they are.
We better pass that anti-flag burning amendment because we probably won't be able to afford any new flags this year.