Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and the Bushes didn't have one tenth of the humanity, integrity, courage, and honor that Jimmy Carter has displayed...

If anyone is getting into heaven it will be Carter...

Gerald Ford was a good, honest, and honorable man, but only marginably brighter than George Bush, the idiot bumbler...

It's sweet Jimmy!

The Greatest Failure as President in American History.

Rock On Jimmy.

It's sweet Jimmy!

The Greatest Failure as President in American History.

Rock On Jimmy.

Posted by zulu at 2006-07-03 08:54 PM | Reply | Flag


I would say standing true to Your faith and also not injecting it into Your Political Office makes You a Great President Jimmy Carter is such a Man Unlike the coward that currently resides in the white house today.

Larry

It's okay Jimmy.... keep em to yourself...

George Bush is the biggest failure, the dumbest person to ever inhabit the White House....no amount of spin will correct the antics of the drug addicted playboy President...and he has killed 10s of thousands Iraqi woman and children on a whim...so he could be re-elected and become wealthy on the obscene prices in OIL and GAS that he engineered on the orders of his puppet masters, Cheney and Rove

It's funny how for years the Dems RAN AWAY from Carter and Mondale. They weren't to be seen at the Dem conventions and if they spent much time on the campaign trail it sure didn't get much press.

Then it's a case of time heals all wounds or maybe the party returned to its McGovern mentality, but we can't seem to get enough of Carter and Mondale's dragged from his coffin to run a Senate race.

Jimmy was a nice man. A bright man. Great military background. As a leader of our country, horrible. Panama Canal, Iran hostages, inflation/interest rates thru the roof, malaise. He got elected because Nixon lied and Ford was poor. Carter's claim to fame: nice man.

George Bush is the worst presidnet since Buchanan. The jury has been in for some time.

Ford pardoned Nixon...that cost him his chances for the Presidency...

And Bush is in a similar predicament...

He lied to and decieved the American people for political gain...

And the Republicans will pay dearly in November...

"The Greatest Failure as President in American History."

Except for Herbert Hoover.

And Richard Nixon.

And James Polk.

And Martin VanBuren

And Millard Fillmore

And James Buchanan

And Warren Harding

And Calvin Coolidge

Hans

I've wondered from time to time if Bush heard of Buchanan. I decided not.

It's so entertaining to read people defend Jimmy. List the great acheivments of the Carter Administration.

Gave Iran to the Ayatollah Khomeini.

Gave the Panama Canal away to Manual Noriega.

Gave us Double Digit Inflation.

Gave us Double Digit Unemployment.

One good thing I will say:

Gave us Ronald Regan.

I don't think he heard of Harding, either.

The Greatest Failure as President in American History.

Any "worst" claim or stigma attached to Carter's Presidency vaporised January 2001. Centuries from now George Washington will be remembered as the Father of our Country, George Bush as the Failure of Our Country.
I don't remember any hostages taken during Carter's Presidency (even the ones Reagan paid for to have held longer) being beheaded or bbq'd and hung from a bridge.
Unlike those under Bush the Dumber.

And James Polk.

What's wrong with Polk? Not only was he a UNC alumnus, he also got us the Gadsden Purchase, without which Tucson would be in Mexico.

Having a new appreciation of Washington. The nerve of the man was astonishing. His timing as a military tactician almost miraculous.

"It's funny how for years the Dems RAN AWAY from Carter..."

tis so true.
carter, it appears as though most agree, is an honest and honorable man whose heart hasn't ever been misplaced... surely not to the extent that every other presidents has been in the last fifty years.
but he was not a good manager and his appointments never resonated.
hence a failed presidency, by & large.
he did advocate a couple of things that i admire to this day. he put solar panels on the board by placing them on the white house and started a dialogue on alternative fuels.
reagan removed those panels, btw.
he asked america to turn up their thermostats to conserve... great but we don't conserve in this country.

he's done more positive things since he's been ousted then anyone i can recall. the bill & george show seems real but those two i can't trust as of yet. time will tell.

and on the 'too many secrets topic'.
no kidding.
the police state is being shored up and our kids will know never the freedoms we once had.
and that isn't al bin laden's fault.
we are letting it happen.

peace

maybe it will have a thread tomorrow......

but speaking of secrets......just heard on the radio that in the cell phone owned by the lately departed zarquai......are phone numbers of two members of the iraqui parliment........sounds like these two ragheads......
"got some splainin to do"

"Having a new appreciation of Washington. The nerve of the man was astonishing. His timing as a military tactician almost miraculous."

He roundly fucked up the defense of New York, and I'm not just saying Manhattan Island.

Later he did better.

As for worst president, at least in the 20th Century, my pick is Woodrow Wilson.

Let's see:

Authorized the Federal Reserve allowing a private bank to control our money supply.

Signed into law the Income Tax.

Signed on to Prohibition.

And sent troops to Europe in WWI.

Of course to get prohibition through Congress and out to the states for ratification, they had to replace the Whiskey Tax which accounted for 40% of the federal revenue. Hence, the Income Tax.

WW was a fucking disaster for this country and we'll continue paying for his ignorance (and arrogance) until the country goes broke--probably after another war fought for sanctimonious bullshit and the profit of the industrialists and arms manufacturers.

Anytime, sooner or later.

"cell phone owned by the lately departed zarquai......are phone numbers..."

Too bad yours are not among them.

Parting would be such sweet sorrow.

True about Washington and New York. But he had the presence of mind to pull off one of the better escapes in military history.He did indeed do better later.

Houston had this same sense of timing. The Texan army had just one fight in it, and he was able to choose the precisley correct place and time for it down to the hour of the day.

I'm curious, BUSHLOVERTWO, what makes someone a "raghead". You seem to be saying members of the Iraqi government are, but some of those guys don't wear anything on their heads.

Or doesn't that matter? Is anyone in Iraq a "raghead?" How about the guys Bush met with last month? How about Iraqi Christians? Are they "ragheads"? How about the guys many Republicans keep telling us are forming the government there. Are they "ragheads"? How about Iraqi's living in Iowa? Are they "ragheads"? Or do you go by smell? DNA tests? Just what criteria do you use?

Any oh so enlightened Republicans like BUSHLOVERTWO care to explain? It's cute when conservatives categorize vague groups of people with names.

Oh, wait, it's not.

Sassy:

You can't reason with Rushlover...he has no common sense.

Lisa-you mean bushblowertoo has no common sense????? Why just yesterday he was saying we libs should all be....wait.
what am I saying?
All he's got is a flush limpdick sized hard-on for damaging ANYONE to the left of dumbass duh-bai-yuh.

BLT-care to speculate why limdick had to take a bottle of VIAGRA on a MEN ONLY trip to the Carribean?

I guess limpdick is a subject he wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.....

"BLT-care to speculate why limdick had to take a bottle of VIAGRA on a MEN ONLY trip to the Carribean?"

Frank:

Rushlover is still trying to figure out why he wasn't invited on the Men Only trip to the Carribean with a man taking Viagra.

After all...he is Rush's #1 fan.

That's ok.

Any other Bush Lovers want to comment on what BushLoverTwo says?

Would any Bush Lover say anything pro or con about his comments about "ragheads" in a thread about some other topic? Anything? Anything at all? Or does it all make perfect sense to you, Bush Lovers? Anything? Anything at all?

"Would any Bush Lover say anything pro or con about his comments about "ragheads" in a thread about some other topic?"

Naaaaw. One would lie, the other would swear to it. They choose party over country every time.

They're funny that way.

They really are that pathetic. It's too bad someone they know can't hold up a mirror to their faces to show them what they've become.....

Frank:

Wouldn't work. They have two faces.

Hey...read my update on Mooman. They still need a lot of help!

Ironically, in about one hundred years Jimmy Carter will probably have been pretty much forgotten. On the other hand, GWB will be remembered as the worst thing to happen to the US in the twenty first century.
I suspect future historians will ponder what might have been had a real leader, and not a corrupt chimpanzee, inhabited the Oval Office at the time of the WTC attacks.

I disagree.

In about one hundred years, the Western Left will be thought of as a last vestige of the sick, murderous and totalitarian impulses that dealt so much misery to the mankind in the 20th century.

The type of rhetoric exhibited in your above post will be indicative of a mindset that was nothing more than a hemerroidal footnote to the asshole of history---even more insignificant than Jimmy Carter, if that's possible.

Because if history teaches us one thing, it is that appeasement, cowardice, and reactionary shreiking to the realities of a new era are sure fodder for the ash heap of history.

Ole George goddamn sure ain't perfect, but he's a far better leader in these times than any self-loathing piece of shit your ideological bretheren could field as a substitute to lead the greatest nation Earth has ever known.

"I suspect future historians will ponder what might have been had a real leader, and not a corrupt chimpanzee, inhabited the Oval Office at the time of the WTC attacks."

I disagree.

Had a real leader inhabited the Oval office at the beginning of the 21st century, future historians would have been talking about how well the WTC has stood the test of time.

Pinche: "self loathing piece of shit"

Aren't you embarrassed at what an awful job the Republicans have done since assuming power? Especially when compared with the prestige and strong economy Clinton handed off to your hero.

But just make fun of liberals and democrats. If you say the same thing over and over again you might actually begin to believe it is true.

Especially when compared with the prestige and strong economy Clinton handed off to your hero

And God knows it was Clinton and Keynes Themselves that created that "prestige and strong economy" in the uncertain and tumultuous era we call the 1990s.

Because everyone knows the President "runs" the country.

Just like Geena Davis.

Dumbass.

Nice deflection. Reality is that you will never acknowledge the poor decision made by GWB and his cronies. Reality is that you can't handle insights that contradict your neat rightwing wetdream view of the world. Reality is that you lack the intelligence to respond in any other way than by calling names such as "dumbass". You, and the other stupid rightwing clones on this site, just remind me how this country got so messed up. Do us all a favor and never post again. You are so stupid and abusive that it is like listening to retarded rantings of an immature teenager.

Reality is that you lack the intelligence to respond in any other way than by calling names such as "dumbass"

Reality is that there is a lot more to reality in the above comment than the word "dumbass".

Reality is that anyone who reads this thread, and possesses an IQ of three digits understands that.

Nice deflection

No shit.

Crawl out from under your little rock during waking hours.

I'd love to spank your ignorant leftist ass when the sun is high, as well.

But for now, your "insights" will have me staring at the ceiling for hours.

"your insights will have me staring at the ceiling for hours"

Someone needs a girlfriend.

I suspect future historians will ponder what might have been had a real leader, and not a corrupt chimpanzee, inhabited the Oval Office at the time of the WTC attacks.

That is pure spanking material.

Who needs a girlfriend?

If that to you is "pure spanking material", then you obviously do.

Who needs a girlfriend?

Posted by Pinche_Mao at 2006-07-04 04:34 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

I DO It's been so long since I have had one I forgot if You have to change their batteries or wind them up. All kidding aside I really and truly do.

Larry

Too many secrets?

More like too many Jimmy Carters.

I just can't help but laugh AT the righties attempts to slander Jimmy Carter. I would just love to know what solutions their God Ronald Reagan would have done during the hostage crisis. He pretty much showed his mettle when the barracks was blown up killing over 200 Marines....he did NOTHING. Amazingly, the hostages returned to America alive and unharmed yet they credited Reagan for their release though he had been in office only hours or days. No mention EVER by them of the possible negotiations between the Iranians who held our diplomats and the incoming Reagan team who, it has been rumored, arranged to have them held a bit longer so that Carter could not receive credit for their release. No mention EVER by them of the dealings by members of the present administration under previous Republican presidents with Saddam, providing him with WMDs.
History, if it is ever fairly reported will honor Jimmy Carter for the peace he negotiated with Saddat which, though it didn't totally solve the Israeli problem, did greatly reduce the threat of all out war in the middle east....well....until Dubya got elected (appointed).
Oh, and I love the accusation that Carter caused inflation which followed the Vietnam War which was extended unnecessarily and tragicly (costing an additional 25,000 American soldier's lives) for strictly political purposes.
Hey, remember that guy Ford and his ridiculous WIN buttons???
No, I guess the righties don't. They can't because it would disturb their fantasy about their Republican presidents who they honor for selling out America.

For crying out loud, Carter allowed himself to be seated next to Michael Moore at the DNC...who needs to slander him...he slanders himself.

I think people should feel sorry for Jimmy Carter. He was one of the worst Presidents of the 20th century (Clinton was the worst).

And now he has just become a tool for the extreme left used to lend credibility to their views. It's sad really. Nobody takes him seriously anymore...much like they stopped taking him seriously as a President when he wasn't able to get the hostages released.

The guy is just grasping for political relevance when he should just stay retired and build houses for the poor.

""Nobody takes him seriously anymore""

Well, nobody except most of the entire world. Probably, next to Clinton he is the most respected American in the world, far, far, far ahead of Dubya who is hated by the majority of the world.

Derfla5, I couldn't have said it any better. The "misery index" that he created to bash President Ford really came back to bite him in the next election. At the end of his four years, America was ready for true leadership, so the voters sent Jimmy Carter packing for Georgia. Once Reagan was in the White House, America regained her swagger.

Undoubtedly, Jimmy Carter's Presidency was one of the weakest administrations ever.

" I would be much prouder of being seated next to Moore than by the Chalbi as Laura Bush did during the State of the Union address a couple years ago. No matter what you say about Moore, he is not a spy for Iran."

You go girl!!

"Once Reagan was in the White House, America regained her swagger."

You mean the "swagger" of crawling out of Beruit after the murder of our Marines?

The response of which was to do nothing?

That kind of "swagger?"

Hans

"Once Reagan was in the White House, America regained her swagger."

WEre those marines killed in the barracks bombing swaggering when they returned to America in caskets???
Was America swaggering when we did nothing in response???

Gotta ask....what kind of moron thinks America wants to swagger like some bully of the world??? Your choice of words definitely indicates where your political feelings come from and it certainly isn't reason but rather the hope that America can act out your own fantasies of masculinity. I think that the right's desire for swagger hints that many of that persuasion are looking more for emotional satisfaction than intelligent government.

""You go girl!!""

Thanks Lisa. Have a great 4th.
Hey, evey you righties have a great 4th too. We will be doing the hamburgers and hot dogs, and typical American stuff.
Gotta go work out now to burn enough calories so I can stuff myself later.

Obviously when you liberate 50 miliion people from tyranny and give them the chance to live free when most of their neighbors are still oppressed then that is going to piss the people off running those neighboring countries as well as piss off those groups within Iraq and Afghanistan who would rather destroy democracy in the hope of putting their narrow interests heading a totalitarian government.

Dubya is hated by all the people that should hate him-- those who hate freedom, hate democracy, and those who believe that the US should just isolate and look the other way while Islamo-Fascism destrioys the hopes and dreams of millions of people.

The Democraats and liberals in this country amazingly would take away all the hard won freedoms of the Iraqis and return that nation to the murderous control of Saddam if they had the chance.

Also, when Jimmy Carter passes, I don't think you will see the same outpouring of love and support that the people showed for Reagan. Just my opinion, but most people will never appreciate his legacy nor his four pathetic years in office.

"Also, when Jimmy Carter passes, I don't think you will see the same outpouring of love and support that the people showed for Reagan."

Yeah... and people still put flowers at the gates to Graceland.

And "American Idol" is a top-rated show.

So?

On this 4th of July, the Drudge Retort reminds us how hateful, anti-American, and dishonest most Republicans and Conservatives really are.

Hans

"when you liberate 50 miliion people from tyranny and give them the chance to live free"
posted by Lokisfur

Fantasy trying to pass for reality.

The truth?

Bagdad has less water than before the invasion. Bagdad has less electricity than before the invasion. Reporters come and go only in the Green Zone, where puppets make rules no one on the outside follows. Militias are becoming de facto law,, not only in the countryside, but in sections of cities as well. Troops have had to take, re-take, and re-re-take cities. Iraq is experiencing Oklahoma City-scale carnage every few days. Women, more respected before the invasion, are now subject to Taliban-style treatment in some areas. The President of the United States must come and go in an unmarked plane.

This last item is perhaps the most telling. When George W. Bush can fly to Bagdad on an announced flight and walk out of the Green Zone only to be greeted by flowers and chocolates, then and only then can this administration claim "mission accomplished".

"Once Reagan was in the White House, America regained her swagger(sic)."

That's "stagger".

Thanks Danni, you have a great 4th as well.

Oz started blowing off fireworks at midnight.

It's raining here...I hope it lets up so we can have some outdoor activities.

"That's "stagger"."

LMAO!!

Check your mail!

Good post, Danforth!

Hans, speak for yourself. It is you and your party of Democrats that have become the most hateful, anti-American, and dishonest degenerates that America has ever seen. Your party is full of Godless liberals that want to destroy the moral fabric that makes this country the greatest nation on earth. Thankfully, the true conservatives in the Republican party will never allow that to happen.

God bless America on this Independence Day. God bless the many soldiers who fought and died over the years preserving our independence and our freedoms. God bless us all. Amen.

"Once Reagan was in the White House, America regained her swagger."

You mean the "swagger" of crawling out of Beruit after the murder of our Marines?

The response of which was to do nothing?



Actually we did do something. We Invaded Grenada.

And this is what the Brits think of us on this July 4th....

Most Britons see America as a cruel, vulgar, arrogant society, riven by class and racism, crime-ridden, obsessed with money and led by an incompetent hypocrite.

"Your party is full of Godless liberals"

LOL

I would have pictured you to be smarter than to read the garbage Coulter puts out!

At any rate, blanketing statements like the ones you have made, causes you to lose credibility, honey.

I believe the Anti Americans, and dishonest people are the ones who defend their party before their country, forever excusing away the actions of their party leaders.

I further believe the people who acknowledge God's existance, calling themselves Christians and end up slapping Him in the face, by using His name to intimidate others into following their personal agenda, rather than to edify Him,are far worse than a "Godless Liberal".

Have a great 4th!

"We Invaded Grenada."

OK, That got a "funny".

Lisa, I have yet to read her new book. However, I hear it's a bestseller. It must not be such garbage after all.

"Hans, speak for yourself."

Actually, I am pretty sure that it is the Republicans who have become the most hateful, anti-American, and dishonest degenerates that America has ever seen.

Your party is full of Godless hypocrites who want to destroy the moral fabric that makes this country the greatest nation on earth in order to hasten the Rapture.

Thankfully, the true Americans of all political stripes will never allow that to happen.

God bless America on this Independence Day. God bless the many soldiers who fought and died over the years preserving our independence and our freedoms. God bless us all.

Amen.

Oh, and on this 4th of July, the Drudge Retort reminds us how hateful, anti-American, and dishonest most Republicans and Conservatives really are.

Hans

Morning Repub4! Happy 4th!

"It must not be such garbage after all."

I highy doubt that anyone outside of conservatives are purchasing this book. If they want to be suckered...that's up to them. That doesn't mean it isn't garbage.

Like I always say...Garbage in...garbage out. : )

Amazing! the Libs conveniently forgot that it was the "bumbling idiot', Ronald Reagen, that stood up to the Soviet Union and the Surrendercrats and brought about the collapse of the Soviet Union, the greatest threat to the USA in history. There was no bigger victory for Democracy over Communism, despite fighting the Reds abroad and the NY Times at home. All this while Jimmy Peanuts lost Iran and got our flag trampled by the Iranians who siezed our embassy and held our people for over 400 days , while Jimmy Peanuts stood there with his finger up his ass.
Give'em hell, Pinche_Mao...you tell the truth but it seems like hell to the revisionist self delusional treacherous liberals.

Amazing! the Conservatives conveniently forgot that it was the "bumbling idiot', Ronald Reagen (sic), who turn and ran away from Beruit after the terrorists killed our Marines...

... and then he did nothing about it!

Hans

Hans- Were you pleased that he withdrew from Lebanon after those soldiers died? Or at the time did you advocate military engagement?

I'm guessing you were very supportive of getting out of there. Am I wrong?

If I'm correct, then it's rather disengenuous of you to go down that path.

Lisa, if you know anything about Coulter, then you know she is really good at referencing her statements. Not any garbage whatsoever. Her credibility is impecable.

Hans,
you Surrendercrats can't have it both ways. you cry about Reagen pulling out of
Lebenon, then you get behind the war protesters stooge, Bendict Murtha, in calling for us to cut and run from Iraq. Get your shit together before you criticize one president for doing it and another for not doing it. Or is it okay for your duplicity because both presidents are Republicans.

"Lisa, I have yet to read her new book. However, I hear it's a bestseller. It must not be such garbage after all."
Posted by Republican4ever

Using that logic, you're a big supporter of The Da Vinci Code, right?

Cornuto sez:

"...Bendict(sic) Murtha, in calling for us to cut and run from Iraq...."

What would you call General Casey, who after a week of hearing Republicans accuse Democrats of cutting and running, suggested a plan to cut and run?

Benedict Casey?

Oh, right, when Dems suggest it, it's "cut and run"; when Republicans suggest it, it's a "winning strategy".

Happy 4th!

I thank God that it was Washington and Jefferson, and not Kerry and Murtha back in 1776, or we'd still have a picture of the British queen on our money. Happy 4th to you. Danforth.

I thank God that it was Washington and Jefferson, and not Kerry and Murtha back in 1776, or we'd still have a picture of the British queen on our money. Happy 4th to you. Danforth.

But, Corn, you didn't answer my question:

If General Casey suggests the same thing as "cut and run" Murtha, is he also advocating "cutting and running"?

It seems that too many Liberals are either too young to remember, or simply choose to forget, what life was like in the United States of America during the Carter administration. I hope we never see times like that again.

I think people should feel sorry for Jimmy Carter. He was one of the worst Presidents of the 20th century (Clinton was the worst).

Posted by Derfla5 at 2006-07-04 08:37 AM

Clinton the worst? Care to back up using comparison to other presidents how what Clinton did was far worse?

Start with the things that are very important that he screwed up and go down. I think the economy is number one in importance for most Americans, so start there.

Agreed Big John- and the economy is pretty damn good at this moment isn't it?

Lisa, if you know anything about Coulter, then you know she is really good at referencing her statements. Not any garbage whatsoever. Her credibility is impecable.

Posted by Republican4ever at 2006-07-04 11:46 AM

I marked that as funny! lol

Patriot, the economy is pretty good, but certain scary vectors to be concerned about.

One is our ginormous deficit, this obviously is no good.
Second is the increasing number of people living under the poverty line. While the rich are making more money, the poor are getting poorer and there are more of them.
Third is our trade deficit, it is getting bigger and bigger, more and more money is leaving the US and not coming back.

Look before you leap, BigJohn 1972. Obviously, you have not read any of her best-selling books. Otherwise, you would not have flagged my last post as funny.

And Hans, thanks for basically restating everything in my 10:08 post. You know what they say, imitation is the greatest form of flattery.

"the economy is pretty damn good at this moment isn't it?"
Posted by Patriot

No. We're running massive deficits to keep things going, not taxing what we spend, and increasing the overall debt, as well as---most importantly---the percentage of federal outlay which must go to service the debt.

If "the ecomony is pretty damn good", and we still can't pay our bills, what's going to happen to us when we're hit with some actual challanges, like Medicare and Social Security for the baby boomers? Shouldn't we be saving money for that rainy day, instead of seeing how high we can get the credit card balance before going bankrupt?

"And Hans, thanks for basically restating everything in my 10:08 post."

You're welcome. I only corrected the parts you had wrong in your 10:08 post.

"you cry about Reagen(sic) pulling out of
Lebenon"

cornholio, if you're going to worship someone it really helps to get the spelling of their name right.

"If I'm correct..."

No, you're not.

Hans

Danforth, what ever happened to personal accountability? Why must the government be the solution for all of our ills? I understand the need for providing health care to the poor, but why must the government be saddled with paying for the health care for those of us who can afford it? Are you practicing what you preach? Are you saving money for a rainy day? I, for one, am not expecting social security to be there when my time to retire comes along. I am planning accordingly. How about you?

But, Corn, you didn't answer my question:

If General Casey suggests the same thing as "cut and run" Murtha, is he also advocating "cutting and running"?
There is a huge distinction. Casey is on the ground in the arena assessing the situation and will not advise the president to withdraw any US troops until the Iraqi's are ready to assume control. But Benedict Mutha, the stooge of puppeteer Howard Dean and Warhero Kerry is assessing the situation sitting on his fat lard ass and advocating leaving Iraq today...sticking his shiv into the backs of our troops and let the chips fall where they may. I really don't expect you blame "America first crowd" to see the difference, but I'll post it anyway.

There you go again, Hans Job, if you're going to use my name, you should have the decency to say "Mr. Cornholio". but in your case, a schmuck by any other name is still a schmuck!"

"...if you're going to use my name,"

I didn't, cornholio.

Hans

Hansjob, are you a relative to Oddjobs, from the James Bond movie?"

Republican4ever sez:

"...why must the government be saddled with paying for the health care for those of us who can afford it?"

Because we already all pay for it now, just not as efficiently as we could. We all pay now in that we don't deny people the care. ERs will (almost) always take patients; we don't intentionally let people die in the street. And we're all paying, either by higher premium costs, higher deductibles, more expensive prices for those who can pay, higher taxes for social care, etc. Universal Health Care will be the only option some day, due to the forced economies of scale.

"Are you practicing what you preach? Are you saving money for a rainy day? I, for one, am not expecting social security to be there when my time to retire comes along. I am planning accordingly. How about you?"

One of my two careers is tax and financial planning, numbnuts. While the Dow Jones is up an average of 1.2% per year during Bush's Presidency, my net worth has more than doubled. I'll say this: during the last Democratic administration, it was better being in the broad market, as Clinton's belief was a rising tide lifts all boats. With the Bush administration, all I've had to do was listen to what they claim, and bet the other way. Recently I was vindicated further when Cheney's portfolio was revealed---someone who I have to believe has some inside info---and the investments mirrored mine.

Am I practicing what I preach? You bet. How about you?

"Hansjob, are you a relative to Oddjobs, from the James Bond movie?"

cornholio, there was no "Oddjobs" in the Bond movie, Goldfinger.

Like your hero ("Reagen"), it probably helps to get the name right when attempting to make a point.

On this 4th of July, the Drudge Retort reminds us how hateful, anti-American, and dishonest most Republicans and Conservatives really are.

Hans

"Casey is on the ground in the arena assessing the situation and will not advise the president to withdraw any US troops until the Iraqi's are ready to assume control. But Benedict Mutha(sic)...."

Stop being spoon-fed and read a little: Murtha's plan was contingent on conditions on the ground.

"sticking his shiv into the backs of our troops"

Get real. It was Bush who stuck a shiv in their backs by sending our bravest into battle without a plan, without enough troops, without enough armor, and without an exit plan. We ignited a civil war and are currently involved in a quagmire where soldiers' jobs are "finding I.E.D.s". If anything, Murtha is trying to remove the shivs from the soldier's backs, or at the least, trying to prevent the senseless deaths of more.

Danforth, did you not read what I stated in my previous post? Of course I am practicing what I preach, financial independence. I don't need or want the government to provide anything for me, with the only exception being border security. However, you still failed to answer why the government must be entrusted with curing all of our ills. What ever happened to private enterprises? Seems to me that private industry could and would be a more efficient medicine man. I believe one of the reasons our medical community is in need of repair is precisely because of government intervention and interference.

Look before you leap, BigJohn 1972. Obviously, you have not read any of her best-selling books. Otherwise, you would not have flagged my last post as funny.

Posted by Republican4ever at 2006-07-04 02:29 PM

I've never read one of her books, I wouldn't want to give her any money, but I have heard what she has said in her books, and at times it is laughable.

I also remember her saying something about Canada having troops on the ground and helping out in Vietnam. I wonder what colour the sky is in her world sometimes.

"Seems to me that private industry could and would be a more efficient medicine man. I believe one of the reasons our medical community is in need of repair is precisely because of government intervention and interference."

R4ever,

Oh, believe me, government will fuck it up worse, but just at a more efficient cost. The profits made in the medical industries will be too great to sustain while providing Medicare for boomers. The numbers just don't add up. It'll take a while to fix, but just as we'd be better off had we listened to Jimmy Carter about energy 30 yrs ago, we'd be better off if Hillary and Universal Health Care had succeeded a decade ago. I remember a honcho from one of my Unions came back with a meeting with Ira Magaziner, an advisor to HRC. His take? "I learned two things. One, Universal Health Care is the most efficient, most cost-effective way to go. Two...it'll never happen."

But now it will; it must; it will be our only viable choice all too soon.

"I don't need or want the government to provide anything for me,"

...now. Wait till you can't afford health care anymore because of your job, your family situation, or (what you thought were) your private medical records.

"I don't need or want the government to provide anything for me..."

R4E doesn't need or want:

- Police
- Fire Departments
- Garbage collection
- Restaurant inspections
- Clean water
- City, county, state or federal highways
- The air traffic control system
- Building code enforcement
- Zoning enforcement (looking forward to that strip club opening up next door to your home?)
- Medical providers proving that they have a minimum competence to practice in his state/area
- Electrical power
- Notification of adverse weather conditions
- City, county, state and federal parks for recreation
- Safe food
- Safe pharmaceuticals
- A neutral authority to enforce contracts between parties
- Prisons or jails (or any law enforcement, for that matter)
- Notification of potential health problems, such as epidemics
- The armed services (except for border security, of course)

I remember reading the book about the founding of the Army Delta Force,by Charles Beckwith.Col Beckwith , a highly respected and experienced officer spoke of how he was impressed with the meeting with Carter in relation to releasing the hostages. Carter did give the go ahead for the desert operation that turned into a barbecue,he had to try and get our people out and it was a good try. Sadly it turned out badly with some important lessons learned.

Hans, I was generally lumping all those items that you just mentioned into the security and protection clause of our constitution. For those who can't read between the lines, thanks for the clarification.

In other words, government is necessary, but often times too much government can be overbearing and burdensome.

"I was generally lumping all those items that you just mentioned into the security and protection clause of our constitution."

Sorry, R4E.

I took:

"I don't need or want the government to provide anything for me..."

Hans, please quote the entire sentence, it may help with your comprehension.

"please quote the entire sentence"

The entire sentence?

Okay, with the last word from the previous sentence and the first word from the succeeding sentence (just to make sure I have "the entire sentence):

"...independence. I don't need or want the government to provide anything for me, with the only exception being border security. However..."

Hans, you are too dense for any further discussion. You obviously don't understand sentence structures, do you. I made a general statement, followed by a qualifier. Are you sure you graduated from grade school?

"I made a general statement, followed by a qualifier. Are you sure you graduated from grade school?"

R4ever,

Your "qualifier" had nothing to do with the prior sentence. It's you who needs further education.

The beauty of free enterprise is that it is economically efficient. The problem with free enterprise is that when it comes to critical services such as health care it does not provide a safety net for poorest and weakest among us.
It is no accident that all elected governments in the world have a health ministry or it's equivalent. Government on some level has to be involved with protecting the health of the masses. Any government which blithely allows the poor to deny is a government which will not last.
The challenge, for which no solution has yet been found, is to find a way of providing quality health care to John and Jane Doe without the government going broke in the process. It would seem as if some type of regulation on the pharmaceutical and HMO industries would be necessary. But that is a dangerous Pandoras box to open to widely. We could destroy our health care system (such as it is) by over regulating it.
I have not heard a viable solution from either the Right or the Left.

The Democraats and liberals in this country amazingly would take away all the hard won freedoms of the Iraqis and return that nation to the murderous control of Saddam if they had the chance.

Posted by Derfla5 at 2

you are an arrogant c-sucker just like the republican party in power. Dont worry even the high and mighty fall off horse eventually.

"I made a general statement, followed by a qualifier"

Got it:

General statement: "I don't need or want the government to provide anything for me,"

Qualifier: "...with the only exception being border security."

Danforth, did you not read what I stated in my previous post? Of course I am practicing what I preach, financial independence. I don't need or want the government to provide anything for me, with the only exception being border security. However, you still failed to answer why the government must be entrusted with curing all of our ills. What ever happened to private enterprises? Seems to me that private industry could and would be a more efficient medicine man. I believe one of the reasons our medical community is in need of repair is precisely because of government intervention and interference.

Posted by Republican4ever

There may be 50 million americans that dont want border security so is that off the table too? Government is necessary for providing security and insuring an equal opportunity for all its citizens. Healthcare is not an equal opportunity item as you either can afford it or you cannot.
Private enterprise for every fucking thing is stupid. To believe that "pure capitalism" is in essence pure is both fallacious and "pure" folly. Capitalism is in thrall to human nature which succumbs to greed and avarice every time. Show me an honest man and I'll show you a man with a price.

Oh, and R4E, two things:

1. Class dismissed; and,

2. On this 4th of July, the Drudge Retort reminds us how hateful, anti-American, and dishonest most Republicans and Conservatives really are.

Hans

"The beauty of free enterprise is that it is economically efficient. The problem with free enterprise is that when it comes to critical services... "

a problem on the horizon with energy comes to mind.
there are cities, not a lot but more everyday, that are self sufficent via solar energy.
tis clear that yesterday's solar cells have given way to a newer, better version with still more progress to be made.
why isn't this being talked about seriously?
because after we buy and install the solar panels, there's no more profit to be made. hence, we also see the electric car being literally destroyed.
it is about $16,000 to make a house solar efficent. not possible for most americans and not at all financially rewarding as of yet.

as a country, i wonder how often progress is stifled for no other reason than for profit.
clearly solar is a better way for at least half of the country though who is the voice? and why are those who still carrying on the conversation being portrayed as loons?

Intellectually dishonest, maybe. Anti-American, I don't believe that. Almost all Americans, regardless of their politics, love this country. It is just that Republican tend to be too stupid to realize the damage which their positions do to this great nation.

Legio, thanks for displaying your great debating skills. Typical. When you can't win the arguement, the Democrats seem to always regress to slander and innuendo. Why is that?

"find a way of providing quality health care to John and Jane Doe without the government going broke in the process."

Since we ultimately deny no one, we're already paying for it, one way or another, and studies show prevention is much cheaper than treatment or cure.

solar and wind power. "free energy " for the ambitious. Capilatism is great, if your doing well.Is working 50- 60 hrs a week with no health care, or a policy with a 2500 deductable good? Its all relative .No 401 k ,pension or "retirement plan"? because the owners are greedy bastards who view people as commodities to be used and discarded.

I partially agree Danforth. Providing prevention as opposed to waiting until full blown treatment is necessary is far cheaper.
But the reality remains that poor people do get a lesser quality of medical care than wealthy people in this country. Maybe nobody is outright denied health care in this country, but a lot of people are accorded piss poor health care. Necessary medical tests aren't run, necessary medications are not approved until too late, and only the most noble overworked doctors are often available to the poor. For the system to be improved would take an intervention by the Federal Government which in the end may not be desirable for the majority.
It is an equation for which we have not yet found a solution.

Excellent points, Moder8.

I remember having to pick up my jar after being told by a hospital administrator friend how things currently are:

"We got a state-of-the-art MRI machine, but a year later they came out with one partially open, and the hospital across the street got it, so we had to replace our perfectly good one. And our cost? We don't care; we don't have to. The patients and the insurers will pay what we charge."

Ouch.

Jimmy Carters Administration:

Too much ineptitude

But I'll bet there is an S in Hansjob. Does it really produce hair in your palms?"

"Does it really produce hair in your palms?"

Apparently, the sum total of cornholio's home schooling sex education.

Hans

Why would anyone care what Jimmy Carter thinks about anything?

That would be like caring what Walter Mondale thought

"Why would anyone care what Jimmy Carter thinks about anything?"

That would be like caring somewhat more than what mark61099 thought.

Hans

Jimmy Carter and George W. Bush:

The first was a good man who was unable to implement many of his ideas because he was unable to get the Congress and the nation to follow him.

The latter is a bad man who has force fed his twisted agenda for war in Iraq down the world's throat, and in the process has likely caused in excess of 100,000 deaths, and both the moral and economic bankruptcy of the United States.

Carter will be forgotten within a hundred years. Bush will be reviled for the remainder of American history.

"Hans, you are too dense for any further discussion." - Posted by Republican4ever at 2006-07-04 05:36 PM

Translation: "I am running away with my tail between my legs" - Posted by Republican4ever at 2006-07-04 05:36 PM

Hans

It's sweet Jimmy!

The Greatest Failure as President in American History.

Rock On Dubya!.

Posted by zulu

Hans slays another one!

Legio, thanks for displaying your great debating skills. Typical. When you can't win the arguement, the Democrats seem to always regress to slander and innuendo. Why is that?

Posted by Republican4ever


probably for the same reason the only argument the regressies have is insults and deflection.

Legio, thanks for displaying your great debating skills. Typical. When you can't win the arguement, the Democrats seem to always regress to slander and innuendo. Why is that?

Posted by Republican4ever

when was stating an opinion to a fucking retard and argument.. Kiss my ass fuckface.

Too bad yours are not among them.

Parting would be such sweet sorrow.

Posted by OzarkAggie at 2006-07-03 10:41 PM | Reply



okay lisa....where is your rightous and sancatmonious indignation about this poster wishing me harm.......
I will not look too long for your response as I know just what a hypocrite liberals can be..........


and sassy.....its pretty simple what a reghead is.....its a person who PUTS A RAG ON THIER HEAD.........duh?

no......seriously, it is an islamic fascist who insist upon killing innocent iraquis and americans who are working on giving security to iraquis and americans alike.....its also people who are supported in their terroristic efforts by a coalition......a coalition consisting of the editors of the NY and LA times as well as our own people like murtha and kennedy and pelosi to name just a couple.....as well as a long line of posters on the ole retort............
and we on the right will not allow you to continue unfettered and without being called on it.............

okay lisa....after reading on....I see where your posts were going.....more hate speach..........pretty sad.....

"Parting would be such sweet sorrow."

Misspelled "farting".

Oh for God sake Rushlover...drop the "hate" crap!! As usual, far be it for you to realize it has been your insults to "libs" in almost every single thread you post, that causes negative remarks towards you.

As usual, it's easier for you to blame others than it is to take a good honest look at yourself, and realize that people are responding to you, because of the way you talk to others.

So much for taking personal responsibility!

I wouldn't be throwing out the word "hypocrite" if I were you....pot...kettle and all that!

And...Oz was refering to you simply leaving. No harm...just go away!

My, what a drama queen you are.

o sure lisa....

so typical that you think the CALLING out of liberals is hate speach.I forgot that we are not supposed to DARE TO QUESTION anything libs say here or in the media.....damn..... also, I keep forgetting that every post from a lib to a conservative is polite and nice and full of political correctness.........yeah right

as someone once said on the radio.......
we ARE the equal time..................

AAAAAANNNNNNDDDDDDDDDD isnt is interesting that ozzarkaggie wants to silence me rather than say anything about it......must be a success in iraq in the making, which as we ALL KNOW is the LAST thing a lib wants to talk about..

The few times I've had people resort to invective or name calling I've not responded in kind. Bush, you and I share many common objectives. Your message gets lost in the excess junk you toss around...same for quite a few libs here.

Take the step to avoid the petty stuff and others will respond in kind. It gets old for most all of us on both sides of issues. Thanks.

Ya know Bushlover...I don't think I have ever met anyone who is such a partisan know nothing, as you are.

It is your hatred towards liberals that causes you to spew your illogical nonsense the way you do.

Prove right here, right now, that "libs" don't want success in Iraq. I'm sooooo sick of your out of touch with reality comments, that even you can not prove are accurate. Every time someone challenges you to prove your comments...you run like a dog with your tail between your legs.

Come on coward....prove your statement. Back it up for a change.

As far as Oz goes...he'll speak for himself. He doesn't need me defending him, or telling him what to say....like you need Rush to do for you!!!

"Misspelled "farting".

Funny flag... for sure!

"Hans slays another one!"

Thanks, Briwo! :-)

Hans

"...must be a success in iraq in the making...."
Posted by bushlovertwo

I guess it depends on what the definition of "success" is:

Bagdad has less water than before the invasion. Bagdad has less electricity than before the invasion. Reporters come and go only in the Green Zone, where puppets make rules no one on the outside follows. Militias are becoming de facto law,, not only in the countryside, but in sections of cities as well. Troops have had to take, re-take, and re-re-take cities. Iraq is experiencing Oklahoma City-scale carnage every few days. Women, more respected before the invasion, are now subject to Taliban-style treatment in some areas. The President of the United States must come and go in an unmarked plane.

This last item is perhaps the most telling. When George W. Bush can fly to Bagdad on an announced flight and walk out of the Green Zone only to be greeted by flowers and chocolates, then and only then can this administration claim "mission accomplished".