The White House issued a statement saying it favors much of the bill but strongly opposes the changes in royalty revenue sharing, which it said "would have a long-term impact on the federal deficit."

The Bush White House claims only it has the right to have a long term impact on the federal deficit. "We've pretty well bankrupted the country. We don't need amateurs getting in the way."

Jeb has said he will hold his breath and stamp his feet at the next Bush family get-together if George doesn't veto this. Jeb's daughter said "Uncle George can score his own damn coke if he doesn't do what daddy wants."

This pack of pigs wants to shit in the house we all have to live in.

They will pay someday for everything they've ruined.

They will pay someday for everything they've stolen.

They will pay someday for everything they've wasted.

They worship the Beast.

well well this is interesting...it seems that the president talks against something that might negatively affect the deficit and northguy and turn both blast him for it......it is really nice when you guys prove us right time after time.....and here you prove us right when we say that it makes no difference whatsoever stance bush takes....if he takes it, he is wrong.......puuuulease...


and kerry and kennedy are getting ready to filibuster.....cant have that view spoiled no matter how high gas gets or how much the middle east holds us hostage.....and then of courses they bitch about the price of oil......go figure.....

yeah bulshitlover29% I for one cant wait to go to the shore and enjoy the ocean views of the oil platforms.

also looking forward to those nice oil slicks, it will save me on having to buy sun tan lotion, crude oil serves the same function, right?

House Lifts Offshore Drilling Ban

Good news as far as I'm concerned.

I live in SoCal where this is a hot issue. With a few exceptions, any Congressman who favors offshore drilling is almost doomed in these districts. People are big on the environment out here. The oil platforms in Santa Barbara Bay are enough of an eyesore already.

You people slay me. You bitch because we import too much oil but you are against drilling for anymore in the US. Your heros bitch that we are using too much fuel in our cars while they jet off to some foreign vacation, burning more fuel on one take-off than I burn all year. You bitch about global warming while you sit in your airconditioned offices and ride around in your airconditioned cars. Just like Ted K. Use solar or wind power for electricity but not where I can see it. Hell, do it out west where there arn't very many people to bitch about how ugly thoes big towers are. Speaking of towers, you are the same way about cell towers. Talk for 2 hours a day and then bitch when you get into a no-cell area but, don't build one of thoes ugly SOBs where I can see it. Either practice what you preach or preach what you practice. You can't have it both ways.

Damn, I feel better now.

whatever truth and others....but we will not have to worry about you saying one fuckin word about how high the price of gas it, now will we???????

as long as the derrick is in someone else's area
as long as the refinary is some other place

and there are derricks all over the gulf of mexico and there are little if any oil slicks and you cant see them without binoculars because they are too far out
and they make great fishing reefs.....

I mean here is an issue that will come back to bite the libs just as the redistricting ruling in texas will.......where the district affected was won by a man named bonilla and it has caused the rewriting of two districts around it...one with a rep named cuellar and the other is dogett....a longtime liberal democratic family.....just as here where it is entirely possible that the dems could LOSE a seat with this redistricting....in this fight the libs will lose because of thier selishness and their unresponsivness to the problem of oil prices......

This would be great! It would spawn local jobs and replace imports in addition to lowering gas prices! I have read some figures that suggest there is as much as 9 trillion dollars worth of energy sitting out on the US continental shelf waiting for exploration to find it. What are we waiting for?

Sniper, that was the best post I've seen in a while. I agree 100%.

We can't help it if you can't see past next week. So many benefits and us libs are sooo bad to ignore them...

Once and for all for all those with Head-in-ass disease: the straw is gurgling, the glass isn't even half-full. I know some millionaires are making a killing off of us all, but it's time to look past oil.

How bad is it gonna have to get before you open your asses?

oil will be below $40 a barrel by the end of 2006.

Write it down.

it's time to look past oil.

Posted by TurnLeftb42late at 2006-06-30 12:04 PM | Reply

Fine. Please post pictures of your new tofu-mobile, because all that 'alternative' technology is just sitting there, fully developed and waiting for you.

Vern,

Way to go! You almost got it right. Soy oil fuctard.

Vern,

Way to go! You almost got it right. Soy oil fuctard.

Posted by TurnLeftb42late

yep.. and canola, hemp, soy, corn and type of diesel can be easily made and converted.

Brazil is nearly 100% energy independent because of sugar cane. Not exactly tofu but it is certainly not petroleum either.

Anyone want to guess how long it would be before America becomes energy independent if we remain under the reign of the oil company executives????
My guess....when there isn't one drop left.

Brazil also is mostly jungle.

Apples & oranges.

Brazil is nearly 100% energy independent because of sugar cane. Not exactly tofu but it is certainly not petroleum either.

Posted by danni at 2006-06-30 12:29 PM | Reply

It wouldn't be an 'energy' thread without this little bit of nonsense, ehh?

Sure, Brazil is nearly 100% energy independent. Brazil is also a shithole Third World country, with a shocking infant death rate, serious malnutrition, awful health care for most people. (not everyone is on the beach in Rio -- like you see on TV)

And almost nobody has a car because they are too busy trying to keep their family from starving.

C'mon, Danni! Remind us also that in Botswana the average energy consumption is only 4% of the average American. Woo-Hoo!

Or, hey, how about the number of light bulbs per capita in North Korea compared to the US.

All very useful comparisons!

Anyone want to guess how long it would be before America becomes energy independent if we remain under the reign of the oil company executives????
My guess....when there isn't one drop left.

Posted by danni at 2006-06-30 12:30 PM | Reply

Where is your conspiracy thinking? If the oil executives are so sinister and evil, and they know what's in the ground -- right down to the last thimble full -- then what's the problem?

They are in th energy business! You think they're going to pump the earth dry and then one day suddenly say "Party's Over!" ????????

You're not keeping your conspriacy straight there, Danni. If we were actually running out of oil then the energy companies would be pushing hard for alternative fuels. That's the business they are in.

You really don't understand capitalism, do you?

Rivals to offshore drilling are fighting a losing battle. With the current price of gas the demand for offshore oil exploration is only going to increase, and why not? Oil companies are using improved safety equipment and methods to reduce the risk of accidents. Safety expertise and machinery have advanced so far that even when accidents do occur they are minor safer than using huge tankers to transport thousands of gallons of oil thousands of miles over hostile waters.

MFDVR,

If we were building refineries to actually use this oil, I would probobly 100% support drilling (I was born/raised in Central Florida btw).

I can see the drilling helping with LNG prices ... but without more refining capacity (that isn't sitting on the gulf COAST!!!) all this crude will do: jackshit.

"If we were actually running out of oil then the energy companies would be pushing hard for alternative fuels. That's the business they are in.

You really don't understand capitalism, do you?"

Why would they do that? They can keep selling those diminishing quantities of oil at increasingly higher prices, thereby maintaining their profit margins. Why would they want to develop alternative fuels which would bring down oil prices?

You really don't understand capitalism at all.

all this crude will do: jackshit.

Posted by GIMPSTER at 2006-06-30 12:47 PM | Reply

I agree that it would be better if the new crude went though American refineries, but we know why that can't happen.

Still, more oil available on the world market will bring prices down to their more natural level. Also, any non-OPEC sources helps weaken the Middle East's political strength.

Gimp,

I have to agree with you. And I guess what you're ultimately saying is that we need more oil refineries. I think that's a great idea. I'm in.

Nothing is proven false unless Republicans say it is. Deficits are actually good for the economy until Republicans say they are not. Locking up anyone and everyone labeled as a terrorist threat is good until someone they personally know is innocent is locked up. Carrying a gun is always a good idea until that gun is used to kill a member of your own family. Telling a blatant lie about a political opponent is good until that lie does not get you elected. So far, so good.

Mista,

What are you talking about?

BushCo must take theirs before the planet melts down. I was in Southern California this spring and every time I left the beach I found oil on my feet. When questioned under oath, big oil will always say spills won't happen, but shit happens. The least they could do is give homeless people jobs cleaning beachcomber's feet.

I Want To See The Texas Death Cage Match Between the Bush Brothers On This One !!

Jeb Has Stated They Will Drill Off The Coast Of Florida Over His Dead Body.

Off Shore Drilling is not as Dangerous as it was 25 years ago, honestly it is only a crutch in my view point.

Fossil Fuel Energy needs to drop down to 30% in the next 10 years. It can be accomplish easily and all the Nay Sayers are full of shit.

After the Exxon crises safety measures have increased to the point the risk of a spill is as high as a Gas station spill down the corner.

-Sarge

"""Still, more oil available on the world market will bring prices down to their more natural level."""

So why does Jeb Bush oppose drilling off the Florida coast??? Does he hate America???

Bayviking,

What part of CA ? What I've seen of oily beaches is the impact of Powerboats and Jet skis, though you may have an issue to report to the EPA. Have you contacted them?

-Sarge

If drilling is to be permitted, the US should REQUIRE that the oil produced from those wells be sold at a price WELL BELOW the current market price. Otherwise, drilling should not be permitted. Why should the American people permit its resources to be exploited to the benefit of the oil companies?

Sniper,

You are the voice of reason on this thread.

We all want lower fuel prices, but don't drill for oil there or there or there...

Everybody wants to get into heaven, but no one is willing to die to get there.

I want my web server, microwave, air conditioner and hot tub, but don't build any electrical generation plants there or there to there (and no nukes!!!)

Everybody wants to get into heaven, but no one is willing to die to get there.

I want murderers locked up in jails not executed, but don't build that jail there or there or there.

Everybody wants to get into heaven, but no one is willing to die to get there.

Pick up my garbage but don't put a landfill there or there or there.

Everybody wants to get into heaven, but no one is willing to die to get there.

i agree with this desision....if we as a country are gonna suck down so much oil then why would we not drill our own stocks? just because you dont wanna see oil rigs? if you really want to help the enviroment then stop driving cars and buy a bike or stop bitching. its very hypocritical to complain about oil drilling in the US and then drive to work alone everyday in your suv. either commit 100% to conservation or get ready to see oil platforms everywhere you go.

VERNON!!!!! Glad to see you around!!

I was relieved to see you posting on this even though I know other people with a brain on the right can easily defend this stupid issue anyway.

There is no defense at this point to not drill offshore.

So why does Jeb Bush oppose drilling off the Florida coast??? Does he hate America???

Posted by danni at 2006-06-30 01:41 PM | Reply |

Maybe you should go ask Jeb Bush?

Sarge,
Near every power plant and refinery between Santa Barbara and San Diego where they offload oil from tankers. Its ruining the beaches and I can't believe no one talks about it.

Why should the American people permit its resources to be exploited to the benefit of the oil companies?

Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2006-06-30 01:51 PM |


Yeah, you're right... those people building the tooling to extract it from the earth don't need a job... neither do those people building the ships, trucks, etc etc or driving and piloting them.... fuck em all, they can stay home and get a check from the govt.... You're right those fucking people in the gas stations don't need to be making minimum wage collecting the final payment for the product when it reaches the end user..... after all we all pay at the pump nowadays anyway..pay em all less than minimum wage so they can pass the savings along to you.... after all you deserve it.... right?

What do you do for a living ?

What do you do for a living ?

Posted by dirtman580e


He probably works for Zogby.

Ya, I don't agree with making it cheap just because its coming from our land.

Oil is a commodity, as such it's traded on the market. If the supply is robust, price will correct itself.

I knew it wouldn't take long for this thread to go pink-o.

So this will lower gas prices?
Why do I think it won't have much effect?

Now having more refineries, that may do something, but what is preventing the companies making more of them? Why do they currently not run at 100% capacity?
Is it to keep prices higher?

Maybe

what is preventing the companies making more of them? Why do they currently not run at 100% capacity?
Is it to keep prices higher?

Maybe

Posted by bigjohn_1972 at 2006-06-30 04:14 PM | Reply

The US hasn't had a new refinery built in 32 years, although the refining industry has been ver adept at expanding capacity at some of them.

They don't build more because they cannot get permits. Every attempt is blocked with protests and demonstrations, etc., followed by lawsuits and injunctions.

That's why we are importing more finished gasoline and other products. They turn the oil into fuel in Venezuela and Mexico and sell it to the US.

American refineries run at about 93% capacity, which is full-tilt. That's why a disruption is felt so quickly. Remember when Katrina took out a couple refineries last year and gas shot up 80 cents? That's how tight the supply lines are.

They are in the process of building a new refinery in south west AZ now. It will be the first one on a long, long time.

Just about every electrical generation plant built in the last 20 years is fired by natural gas. You can thank that on the sales job by the gas producers and the strict laws for burning coal. Put that in your furnace and burn it now that it is so expensive. Nobody wants one of thoes pipe lines in their back yard either so our distrubution system is choked.

Not everything boils down to dem vs rep so give it a rest and think about what is happening to you and our great country.
We have to have refineries, pipe lines, coal trains, and oil wells to keep our nation running. If alternative energy was the answer right now, we wouldn't have this problem. This nation cannot produce enough corn to make alcohol we need that is why our gas prices are going up now. Our government has mandated that we burn a 10% mix and the capacity is not there to supply it.

If you think the oil companies are only looking at oil, you can't see your nose on your face. They are involved with all forms of energy. You bitch about the profits of the big oil companies but who are the 2 richest men on earth?

If you would bother to check, wou would find out that our gas prices were higher years ago than they are now, with inflation adjustments.

What do you do for a living ?

Posted by dirtman580e at 2006-06-30 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag

Unemployed software consultant. I am also against illegal immigration and want the number of H1Bs severely reduced.

Back to the issue at hand:
In every interview of an oil company executive that I have seen, when asked why is oil so expensive they point to competitive forces i.e. they can make more for their investors by selling it on the open market. Since this is new oil, belonging to the American people, they should start thinking of the American people as investors.

Reminds me of George Carlins stand up routine about NIMBY- not in my backyard, how true it is.

Why worry about all this that is out of our control. I say start being more self sufficient and energy independent as individuals , which is what I have done.

that is good controll......and not just for conservation, but for saving some bucks, but I think we can agree that the problem we have with oil will not be fixed without more drilling for oil of our own.......

Everybody wants to get into heaven, but no one is willing to die to get there.

Posted by stopthebox_itch


It is more like "everybody wants the price of cattle to go up but nobody wants to shoot any of their own cattle"

"Just a thought, but I see the argument over drilling (or nuclear) not so much as an environmental issue, but a national defense issue."

Interesting, Oohrah.

Someone else said pretty much the same thing twenty eight years ago:

"We can't go on consuming 40 percent more energy than we produce. When we import oil we are also importing inflation plus unemployment."

"We've got to use what we have. The Middle East has only 5 percent of the world's energy, but the United States has 24 percent."

"Our neck is stretched over the fence and OPEC has a knife."

"There will be other cartels and other shortages. American wisdom and courage right now can set a path to follow in the future."

"The real issue is freedom. We must deal with the energy problem on a war footing."

"The energy crisis is real. It is worldwide. It is a clear and present danger to our Nation. These are facts and we simply must face them."

We must deal with the energy problem on a war footing. - National Security Issue.

The energy crisis is real...It is a clear and present danger to our Nation. - National Security Issue.

Now, just imagine where we would be today if Americans had actually listened 28 years ago.

Hans

Hans, by and large, Americans never listen.

"...we're not gonna conserve our way out of this."

And guess what: We're not gonna drill our way out of this either.

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting different results.

Hans

"Carter said what presidents have said for several decades now."

Carter had solar panels installed on the roof of the White House.

Reagan had them removed.

Symbolic? Yes, but indicative.

Oh, and I don't seem to remember other presidents referring to the energy situation as a National Security Issue ("...not so much as an environmental issue, but a national defense issue.")

Hans

"That it's not a supply issue?"

Of course it is not a supply issue.

Sooner (no conservation) or later (some conservation), the world is going to run out of oil.

Drilling for more oil ("doing the same thing over and over again...") does not guarantee an endless supply of oil ("...expecting different results.")

And if we're not going to have an endless supply of oil ("Insanity") then the sooner:

(a.) we start conserving what we do have; and,

(b.) we start transiting over to alternative fuels, then...

... "the closer we get to self sufficiency."

Hans

Make no mistake, America will war with anyone who threatens our vital resources, whether it's oil/energy, water, food, air

As Bush's fiasco in the ME demonstrates, it would be much less expensive to pay the market price.

Oohrah
I see you are another Bush flunky. The price of oil shot up after Bush invaded Iraq, not before. The current price reflects the world's concern for a major war that would cut off supplies, not to mention the Iraqi embargo before the invasion. It does not reflect a shortage of oil supplies.

Our own government is a far more destructive enemy to Americans then any loose confederation of suicide bombers could hope to be.

I mean, you saw the billions and billions of dollars lost in our ecomomy post-911.

The 9/11 attack cost a few billion dollars. Our government's response to it cost many times that amount.

My my, you do not seem to notice the presence of Israel as having an effect on ME stability.

What would you do with Israel?

Move it to Baja!

Oohrah

I am among those who advocate a real free market economy without government intervention. Subsidized alternative energy schemes are counterproductive.

Yes I do advocate letting Israel fend for itself. I could care less what happens to that country. It's been nothing but a headache for this country from the day it was founded.

I define a Bush flunkie as one who is morally bankrupt and economically illiterate. Democrats and liberals are in the same league.

I get no satisfaction that so many Americans are like you. As a matter of fact, it's discomfiting.

Ron Paul is the only one I can think of off hand. The rest of them are criminals. Because of the nature of the job, it attracts scum.

You are only kidding yourself. Power attracts scum like light attracts moths. With power comes license to use violence against others. If the type whom you say are truly good people, they would stick to their convictions or quit. I don't accept "the devil made me do it" excuse.

You can't survive in politics without being on the take. It takes a lot of money to finance campaigns, much more than the job pays. How many professions do you know, cost more than thay pay?

A conservative (or liberal) worships state power. As I said before, your moral standards are bankrupt.

"What moral standards are you referring to?"

This was an intentionally funny comment... right?

Hans

Ray, your last point was a great one. I agree with you, for maybe the second time. Power corrupts both cons and libs. Most of these guys are rich to begin with, but that doesn't satisfy them. They love power and can't get enough. We need to revamp Congress with strict term limits. This will eliminate much of the corruption. Also, lobbying needs to become very restrictive and should include absolutely no gifts or donations, directly or indirectly.

"Is your argument that conservatives are morally bankrupt?"

No. My argument falls into the "glass houses" realm.

"We all have moral standards."

Perhaps. I see it, however, as we all have standards: Some are moral, some are amoral, and some are immoral.

Hans

What moral standards are you referring to?

The non-initiation of violence against others. Our current system of government is in business to sell violence.

Darkswan

Your ideas won't solve anything. They cannot be trusted to police themselves. Besides, they would never legislate those laws.

Their power is derived by the people. As history shows, the masses have to learn the hard way by suffering hardship.

Oohrah
I would hypnotize every American and plant the thought that they can't trust their government and that they should not allow themselves to become become reliant on government. Downsizing government has to come from below. It cannot happen from above.

Downsizing government has to come from below. It cannot happen from above.

Perhaps but downgrading of government and making it less responsible to the people has come from the Corportization of the world..

The solution is not to drill more wells. It is to wean ourselves from oil altogether. If we invested half as much on this truly critical need as we have invested in Iraq, a solution would already have been found.
Lets face it, even if drill every conceivable well on Earth, the oil will be gone at latest by the end of this century.

The solution is not to drill more wells

I could almost buy this as necessary if it did actually SOLVED the problem. For-instance if it were coupled with CAFE standards of 50MPG for new vehicles and an end of oil fueled vehicles in say 15 years. Anything short of that kind of design is just continuing the current problem. We went from ground zero to the moon in 10 years and that sure wasn't necessary.

If we invested half as much on this truly critical need as we have invested in Iraq, a solution would already have been found.

Posted by moder8 at 2006-07-01 02:19 PM | Reply

Silly! You can't know that! You could spend a bazillion dollars and find out that hydrogen just won't work.

The fact is that TODAY we have an oil based economy, and for at least the next 100 years we will have an oil based economy.

Pissing away trillions of dollars and barking at the moon won't change that. even if there was some miracle breakthrough tomorrow it would still take 50 years to implement. (BTW, there's no such thing as a 'breakthrough.' Science is incremental)

Take a dose of reality. And while you're at it, the other reality: the world is slopping over with oil. There's enough in Canada, Utah and Colorado for another 700 years.

Oorhah
I remember a saying about the definition of a moron as one who keeps trying the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result each time. The path to smaller government is around the powers-to-be, not through them.

I voted straight Republican since Goldwater, believing them to be the pary of smaller government. Reagan was the last straw. You can't beat the major parties by their rules.

Take a dose of reality. And while you're at it, the other reality: the world is slopping over with oil. There's enough in Canada, Utah and Colorado for another 700 years.

And I would add that the oil companies are learning how to drill on the ocean floor. We are nowhere close to running out of oil. Our problems have to do with politics, not supply.

You guys are dreaming. At the rate we are using oil, assuming there is no change in behavior, and consumption continues to increase at an almost exponential rate, every drop of oil on Earth will have been sucked dry long before the end of this century. Wake up to the reality of huge population increases and a developing third world.
Simply saying something is not so, does not make it not so.

Well simply saying it is doesn't make it so either.

I remember in the early sixties, gas was about 30 cents a gallon and the Dow was at a thousand. Today gas sells for three dollars and the Dow at 11,000. Each has increased ten times over the same period. And that doesn't account for increases in energy taxes since the sixties. Plus, we haven't begun to make effective use of nuclear energy.

I do not disagree with the proposition that the market may well continue to drive up the price of oil until it becomes economically necessary to develop an alternative source. That is the beauty of the capitalist system.

I do disagree with the proposition that at the current increasing rate of consumption the oil will not run out within the next one hundred years. China, India, the two most populace nations on Earth are just at the beginning phases of becoming major oil consumers. Not to mention the rest of the developing world. The point is, the oil will run out.

Alternatives, be they safe nuclear, hydroelectric solar, etc, need to be developed. There is no alternative if the modern world is to continue developing technologically.

I do not disagree with the proposition that the market may well continue to drive up the price of oil until it becomes economically necessary to develop an alternative source. That is the beauty of the capitalist system.

Greed is good
- Gordon Gecko

Greed is efficient and predictable. That does not make it good in the majority of circumstances.

Yes, oil company profits are good. That gives them the revenue to keep the oil flowing. But watch out for Bush's meddling in the ME.

The doomsdayers have been constistently wrong.

Yes, oil company profits are good

Nice Dodge

That's no dodge. How come I don't hear complaints of too much taxes? Now that is greed in every sense of the word. Is there any amount of revenue that could satisfy the political class?

That's no dodge. How come I don't hear complaints of too much taxes? Now that is greed in every sense of the word. Is there any amount of revenue that could satisfy the political class?

Dodge Take Two

Methinks Zap is dodging me.

Methinks Zap is dodging me.

Hmmm perhaps if you equate profits to Greed as identical by your definition.

The problem is that profits motivate oil companies to keep the public dependent on oil even if it is in the public's best interest to develop alternatives.
Greed is not good in this context.
I hate to use the drug dealer analogy, but without addicts, the dealers would not be able to make so much profit.

Huh? I didn't equate profits to greed. I think there is a sense of greed on the part of consumers when they expect cheap gasoline and small profits at the same time. The oil company executives make a valid point when they say they have no control over the market price of oil. When the price of crude suddenly spikes, of course that inceases their profits - and net worth. In fact, other commodities have risen along with the price of crude.

The problem is that profits motivate oil companies to keep the public dependent on oil even if it is in the public's best interest to develop alternatives.

That's preposterous. That they have been efficient at discovery and refining has kept the price low compared to alternative sources. They're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

The oil companies are making record profits. To say that greed is not playing a role in the current drive up of prices is naive.

It reminds of the California wildfires when the rightwing was making the same argument. Then the tapes of the Enron executives laughing about artificially driving up oil prices were released. Lawsuits, and (I think) indictments followed.

Let me see if I have this straight Moder8. You are worried about running out of oil. So how do you expect them to maintain supply if they don't have the profits to do so? Those record profits are recent because for the past twenty years or so, they had low profits. I'm sure you weren't complaining then.

For arguments sake, suppose they had the means to drive up the price. Wouldn't that make alternative forms more competitive?

Please don't equate Enron to the major oil companies. Another point you miss is that most oil around the world is nationalized. That is where most of the profits go. Offhand I believe, oil company profits amount to about ten cents a gallon. Almost half of the pump price is taxes.

I think there is a sense of greed on the part of consumers when they expect cheap gasoline and small profits at the same time.

I agree seen any low profits.

The oil company executives make a valid point when they say they have no control over the market price of oil.

Please don't equate Enron to the major oil companies.

LOL

You know I don't know why people haven't figured out how to recycle Old Oil from things such as Crank cases and places like that. You reclaim it and then send it back to the Oil Industry where they would use strippers(No NOT My kind of strippers) to take all of the contaminates in the used Motor oil and then remanufacture that used oil making it new again. Since Oil does NOT really break down just the additives that they place inside of the oil such as Detergents. they could turn used oil into the base stock and then readd those detergents and then You would have the EXACT Same quality of Oil as it would be if it were "New oil" I am probably talking out of my ass but it IS a thought.

Larry

I have a 40 acre wood lot with oak,maple,hickory,ash,birch and will be warm for the rest of my life. I am going to install wind equipment and possibly draw power from the river 100 feet behind my house.This is not by accident.Who needs oil.

who needs internet!

CP
You will find out who needs oil when you go to buy supplies.

Ray, the point is to be more self sufficient and independent, from reading your posts I know you realize that.I use limited amounts of oil. I am out of the "rat race" that most people are slaves too.

It is nice to have a tank full of oil too, just in case I dont feel like building a fire. Just flick the switch.

CP

We are way past the point where we can be independent from foreign sources. Even if it was possible, the feds would resist. This is an important point. Because oil is bought and sold in dollars, it provides an outlet for selling government debt. That is, the more the world consumes oil, the more dollars they need. To get those dollars, they have to import. Hence our growing balance of payments deficits. The world is awash in dollars and no one dare upset the scam. Alas, it can't last. When we go down, almost every world economy goes down with us. And every central banker knows it.

I understand the money is to great along with the greed and corruption.I am no economic guru for sure. Most people are working week to week to support thier families and dont have a clue as to the world economy or big picture.They gas up and pay whatever to go to work, gotta eat right? Bankers and attorneys and politicians are all scumbags , worse than used car salesman.

Ray, If I need heating oil I call snomans oil service or webber energy fuels, they bring some over to the house.

CP

Yes you are right. Everything appears to be normal on the surface. Prices go up a little bit as always, their wages don't keep up, their debt increases, but they think their homes will continue to increase in price and bail them out. They think Social Security and Medicare are secure, their pensions are guaranteed. Very few see what is on the horizon until it is too late. Our system of government is monstrously criminal.

You can hear the lies the economy is good, enemployment is low, things are fine.High gas prices, for now it will be okay, Rush said so and some other plastic talking head . Americans have record personal debt and no personal savings, no money. Most sheeple confuse possession and ownership.Nothing is guarenteed, plan for your own future, shoe box under the bed bank?

You're on to it CP. This nation is accumulating debt faster then it can create new wealth. It's only a question of when and how. Keep that shoe box stuffed with an alternative currency like real silver coins for when the dollar nosedives.

Its not a Dem or Rep issue, its personal survival.Working hard and saving your money still works and we do have great opportunities in America to prosper. Sometimes it is hard to not be so cynical however.

Ray, the point is to be more self sufficient and independent, from reading your posts I know you realize that.I use limited amounts of oil. I am out of the "rat race" that most people are slaves too.

Posted by controlledpairs

Yes, you are out of the rat race. How do all the things you consume get to your house? Does the supply genie bring them to you or does it take airplanes, trucks, and trains to get everything where it's going? Your fuel consumption is not just the few gallons of gas you put into your car. It is the entire network of our civilization. You own a piece of it. If you think you live in a vaacum, think again.

If you were self sufficient, you would live in the wilderness, grow your own garden, poach game all year long, and not be posting on the internet. When is the last time you poached a deer and buchered it so you could eat? I'll bet you have never shot a deer and cut it up for food. I'll bet all your meat comes from Albertsons, delivered on the big truck runnin down the super-slab.

CP
I don't find it hard to be cynical at all. Saving dollars is a loser when those same dollars are losing purchasing power every day. That has a lot to do with why so few save and most accumulate debt. It's a trap.

Hey Sniper - your full of shit. And wrong about everything ,except enjoying the internet. I DO grow my own green beans,corn strawberries,good peppers too. Havent gotten a deer in about a year ,about 6 months worth of lean healthy meat, maybe a moose this fall. You live like an asshole in the woods like Ted Kaszinski ?

Deer hunting- dogs,4 wheeler,m-4, and chainsaw, to easy.

Sniper - as you are obviously young and naive I will explain the Rat Race. everyday 9-5 job, living in a highly populated high stress area, traffic jams,shitty people,dirty air,smog,city smut if you will,working for someone else,just making ends meet,payckeck to payckeck,borrowing petty cash from work,hot dogs and macaroni and cheese for a week,rolling your own cigarettes,on and on and on. Got old for me , so I got out of that Rat Race,pulled up the bootstraps my boy.Now self sufficient, and happy too.Life is good.

If I recall correctly, Ted Kazinski's family sent him money. CP, I don't believe you can live completely independent from civilization.

If I realy wanted to "live off the land"Icould do it.Dont have to do it at this point, hopefully that time never comes.I like having it both ways, I dont want to live like a savage, that would be foolish.

CP
I thought once about living independently till I looked into it. Too much hard work. Don't have the stomach for killing and butchering animals. Then there is the isolation, the risk of needing emergency medical attention. Even simple implements we take for granted are beyond one's ability to make. Yes, to choose to live like a savage would be foolish.

There is a chance that this country could sink into social chaos, but I'ved decided to take my chances. Keeping a supply of silver coins provides some insurance. Don't have any debt, don't own real estate and building savings in coins.

Ray, I agree it is hard work but I get a lot of satisfaction from working my own land. Sure I pay taxes so realy its not mine which is a crock. I have 40 acres a small home, a river behind me, small town good living. I am grateful for my situation for my wife and daughter also. I am not wealthy by any means. I worked hard for a lot of years to get here.Silver and gold are a sure thing I am with you on that.