Yes, I remember learning of the US, Russian and German troops who killed themselves as an "act of war" during WWI, WW2, Korea, and Vietnam.
It's a well known and succesful strategy.

Oh, shut up.

This is really stretching it. Over 400 being held there and only 3 have been tried. These men are being held for over FOUR YEARS and have not yet been charged, told what they are in there for, nor given any kind of trial date. Bush babbles on and on about the "war on terrreerr" going on for years -- which menas these guys would be held their entire lives and never even given the reason for imprisonment.

THIS IS NOT WHAT OUR COUNTRY IS ABOUT. Bush will keep them forever. Everyone has the right to know what they are charged with and has the right to know if they will receive a trial on those charges. We gave the Nazis a trial after WW II.

You may say, oh these people are only terrorists from overseas, so who cares. But remember -- BUSH STILL REMAINS IN OFFICE and Halliburton has built huge detention camps here on U.S. soil -- as yet unfilled. This famous poem below (insert your own substitutions) could very easily be your future:

"They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up
because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up
because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up
because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time
no one was left to speak up"

If Bush is more than willing to trample on these prisoners basic rights to at least know why they have been incarcerated for more than four years and given no hearing or trial date, what do you think Bush will do when it might be YOUR turn.

Here is a link to a sight where various people blog on this issue. Don't know how much is true but they provide many links to other articles about these detainment camps (supposedly to be run by FEMA) to detain people here on U.S. soil.

Laugh if you want, but these camps are already built -- but empty for now.

"Oh shut up" was NOT directed at you, BRIWO. When posted, it appeared to be the first of the posts. It was directed as the military flak who was quoted above.

Using this logic, wouldn't they all win by committing mass suicide?

"acts of war...?" By committing suicide?

This has to be the ultimate spin. What are we going to do about it? How are we supposed to retaliate against someone who has committed suicide?

"White House spokesman Tony Snow said Mr Bush had 'expressed serious concern' at the deaths.

"He also stressed that it was important to treat the bodies humanely and with cultural sensitivity.'"

Yeah right, I'm sure Bush is all broken up about these deaths.

Yeah right, I'm sure Bush is all broken up about these deaths.

Posted by woe_is_W at 2006-06-11 08:56 PM | Reply |

He doesn't give a Rats ass about ANYONE But Himself. He is a sociopath. and a War Criminal. I am Thoroughly disgusting with Him. I would LOVEEEEE Nothing more than to See Him at The Hague for War Crimes. That would make My Year. Hell it would make My life.

Larry

I just thought of something. Bush and his crew constantly crow about his duty as "Commander in Chief" and how that trumps all other duties and responsibilities. If that's the only role he sees himself in, a military one. Then we are now controlled by the military. We are in a militarily controlled country. As he sees it, he is already a dictator. All we have to hope for now is a revolt of Generals when he makes it formal by refusing to step down in '09.

I agree, Larry, but not just him. I'd like to see all of the neoCONS including Rummy, Condi, Wolfie, Cheney etc. who forced us into this situation given a fair trial and then strung up from the nearest tree.

I don't know which is sadder - the despair and anguish that drove these men to suicide, or the defensive reflex of their jailors to spin the men's misery into "an act of war". As if these prisoners were the aggressors, and their captors the victims.

There is no hope for this world if there is not forgiveness all the way around...for everyone.

I just thought of something. Bush and his crew constantly crow about his duty as "Commander in Chief" and how that trumps all other duties and responsibilities. If that's the only role he sees himself in, a military one. Then we are now controlled by the military. We are in a militarily controlled country. As he sees it, he is already a dictator. All we have to hope for now is a revolt of Generals when he makes it formal by refusing to step down in '09.

Posted by pingdum at 2006-06-11 09:07 PM

How right you are. Any military generals that do not go along with, or else question the Neocon agenda, are vilified, crucified, and forced into early retirement by these thugs in the White House.

As if these prisoners were the aggressors, and their captors the victims.

As Spud asserted on another subject 'it's all about control'. The prisoners took control of a situation in which it was assumed they had none.

As if these prisoners were the aggressors, and their captors the victims.

Don't forget, these are the same guys who got a shooting victim to apologise to the guy who shot him.

How right you are. Any military generals that do not go along with, or else question the Neocon agenda, are vilified, crucified, and forced into early retirement by these thugs in the White House.

Maybe that's why their working so hard to defame the Generals they don't like now, so they're not there in opposition to a complete take over in '09.

If you follow the story into the BBC website there is place for comments. Most were from Britons and almost all were extremely negative some expressing shock that anyone could view a suicide as an act of war. The UK is the biggest foriegn supporter of the war on terrorism, they even had a 9/11, 7/7, if there is no traction for the bush admin spin on this in the UK you can imagine what it's like in every other country.

Suicide as an act of war?

Cut em up and feed them to the pigs and show the video to the rest of them

Jollyboy: You talkin' about the generals being fed to the truncheon wielding dog handlers? Be patient. Everyone's karma catches up to them. Even the ones with murder in their hearts.

Dozens Have Attempted
Suicide At Guantanamo
By Jane Sutton
6-11-6


WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The three prisoners found dead at the Guantanamo prison camp on Saturday were the first to succeed in committing suicide, but nearly two dozen others have tried to kill themselves behind the razor-wire fences at the remote U.S. naval base in southeast Cuba.

Before Saturday, 23 prisoners had tried to kill themselves 41 times at the camp, which holds about 460 foreign terrorism suspects, military officials said.

That number did not include hundreds of what military officials called "self-harm incidents" and "hanging gestures," where detainees cut themselves deliberately or wrapped bedding around their necks in what Guantanamo officials said were attempts to gain attention or express frustration without actually trying to cause death.

Foreign governments, including U.S. allies, and human rights groups have criticized the indefinite detentions and the prisoners' lack of legal rights at Guantanamo. The Pentagon insists the detainees are treated humanely.

On May 18, two prisoners overdosed on prescription drugs they had hoarded, in what camp officials called a coordinated attempt at martyrdom.

In January 2003, a Saudi prisoner tried to hang himself in his cell and suffered brain damage that left him in a coma for more than three months.

In August 2003, 23 prisoners tried to hang or strangle themselves -- 10 on the same day -- in a mass protest. Two were treated at a hospital for minor injuries and Guantanamo officials said at the time that most were not genuine suicide attempts, but were part of a coordinated effort to disrupt camp operations.

Bahraini captive Jumah Dossari has tried to kill himself a dozen times. In October 2005, he handed his visiting lawyer a note to examine later. When the lawyer stepped out, Dossari hanged himself in his cell and cut a gash in his arm.

A guard cut him down and medical personnel sutured his arm. He later tried to rip out the stitches, in what the military described then as his ninth confirmed suicide attempt.

Four years with no charges and no outside contact? I bet 99% of this blog would attempt suicide too.

Gitmo has become an international symbol. Everybody who hates America points to its conditions as proof of everything they feel is evil about the USA.
What is most frustrating about this situation is that we did it to ourselves. Our leaders clearly should have seen in advance that an extra-territorial prison of this sort where no meaningful due process exists must eventually boomerang back on us. Once again, the worst injuries to America's image are self inflicted.
And try as certain administration supporters might, this is not a case of a liberal media or any such bull. This is a situation that should offend any American who takes to heart the ideas of truth and fairness embodied in our Constitution.

larrymohr.....when you say bush is a war criminal, you align yourslef with the lowest segment of the liberal group of whinny babys who would rather be pussies and dead than fight a war on terror....
outrageous and shameful and nothing more than pandering to the enemies of our country and the media and ilk that could care less that we win or lose this global war on terror...
its about a stupid a thing to say as that bush only had them kill zarquawi to bump the polls.......

and many of these 'detainees' have sworn to kill again if they are released.....I just hope that when they are that they arent released around me....you liberals, I am sure would be glad to host them in your house or town.........
and isnt it so typical that so many of you are so worried about these friggin animal killers and then you jump all over reports of amercian soldiers fuckin up or maybe giving zarquari a head butt before he DIES>......and thats why you suck!

OH BL2, you have me now! I've wanted to be dead for so long and take the whole country with me! Now, I am exposed! I hate freedom! I hate America! I pray every day that God kills our troops and that terrorists will rule the world!

Fucking idiot, that's what you are.

well lets see who the fuckin idiot is.....
you rave like a lunatic about shit that has nothing to do with the post you are commenting on......typical liberal bullshit.......

and now that you have attacked and I have responded, DO NOT take as success, my further silence on the issue...
I have to qualify everything so that lisa doesnt have an orgasm over me calling out people who call me names.........

but there is so much to do.....I mean there is so much to get ready for with the world cup about to start.....damn that is some exciting stuff.......
how can you not love being at a wild game with that 2 to 1 score........
there is more fun in watching the idaho bass fishing regionals that finished up last week.........
better go and get the popcorn ready.....

there is more fun in watching the idaho bass fishing regionals that finished up last week.........

BLT,

Bass fishing is my favorite pastime. I can truly say that I miss fishing more than anything else from the States. I also miss my truck.

I will be joining you to watch the games. My bets are placed on Japan over Australia, Italy over Ghana and believe it or not USA over Czech Republic.

Cheers,
Walt

BLT,

I missed the sarcasm in your posts. You really should watch the games.

Cheers,
Walt

Act of war? Must be a French tactic.

larrymohr.....when you say bush is a war criminal, you align yourslef with the lowest segment of the liberal group of whinny babys who would rather be pussies and dead than fight a war on terror....
outrageous and shameful and nothing more than pandering to the enemies of our country and the media and ilk that could care less that we win or lose this global war on terror...
its about a stupid a thing to say as that bush only had them kill zarquawi to bump the polls.......

Posted by bushlovertwo at 2006-06-12 07:58 AM | Reply


Sorry the truth Hurts You BLT. sorry but the Facts speak for themselves. When You invade a country Illegaly and attack a country that hasn't attacked You. You are perpitrating an Act of Aggression. a WAR CRIME . Those are the facts BLT Sorry they hurt.

Larry

When You invade a country Illegaly and attack

Larry thanks for the laugh. That particular left wing anti-war rant is my favorite. Every time I hear "Illegal War" it makes me chuckle. So thanks.

Cheers,
Walt

Larry thanks for the laugh. That particular left wing anti-war rant is my favorite. Every time I hear "Illegal War" it makes me chuckle. So thanks.

Cheers,
Walt

Posted by Walt at 2006-06-12 09:38 AM | Reply



Sorry Walt but it is illlegal no matter how much You want to deny the truth it still will NOT go away. no matter how hard You try and sweep it under the rug. TRUTH HURTS

Larry

Larry, normally I just walk away from comments like this but I like you and I think you might be able to explain to me what makes it illegal. Is there a particular law that you can point out that has been broken?

-Walt

Most certainly can Walt.

Article 2 clause 4 States and I quote.

All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.



Since the UN Charter and UN Treaty is still Valid upon the United States. and Since we have not formally removed ourselves from it. We are bound by the rules. Therefore Dubya broke the rules upon which we AGREED to. So therefore the incvvasion of Iraq was an Act of Aggression a WAR CRIME no matter how much You would love that little fact to go away it simply will not go away. Sometimes the TRUTH HURTS.

Larry

Who cares is wars are "legal"? To the people who lose everything, knowing the war was "legal" does nothing. There are much more important issues here than the blessing of a corrupt, self-interested group of politicians. Had the UN told us not to retaliate against Al Queda in Afghanistan, would that had mattered to any American with a shred of common sense? IMO, its the weakest arguement against the war.

The better arguement is that Iraq was not a threat to us so we just wasted thousands of lives and billions of dollars to eliminate a threat that never existed. And now we don't know how Iraq can turn out - it may end up becoming a threat now that we've opened things up to the Islamists.

Larry I will go along with your assertion that it is an illegal war so that I can find out how then it is a war crime? Is the war itself a war crime?

I don't mean to sound so patronizing, but I really do want to know why you say these things.

"Illegal War", "War Crimes", "War for Oil". All these rants are very divisive and I really do want to know your rationale for repeating them.

-Walt

'"Illegal War", "War Crimes", "War for Oil". All these rants are very divisive and I really do want to know your rationale for repeating them.'

In his defense, the official rational we're given keeps changing and never makes much more sense either.

Act of war? Must be a French tactic.

Posted by Sully at 2006-06-12 09:32 AM | Reply


I thought I smelled something! Man I hate the French. Dirty little surrender monkies. They remind me of the limp wristed liberals that post here.
I hope more of the Gitmo mutts decide to join this so called "PR Campaign". In fact, I think Gitmo needs an inservice recruiter.

Larry, if what you are saying is true then why is it that we have had no action taken against us by the UN? If we so clearly broke their laws why aren't they doing something about it?

-Walt

Larry, if what you are saying is true then why is it that we have had no action taken against us by the UN? If we so clearly broke their laws why aren't they doing something about it?

-Walt

Posted by Walt at 2006-06-12 10:22 AM | Reply


Because we are one of the Permanent Veto members on the Security COuncil. Think We would sanction Ourselves?? We are too arrogant for that.

Larry

Larry,

Thank you bro. Really. You have made a fair enough explanation of why you think what you think.

Let's leave it at that OK?

-Walt

Well lets just not let it go. What Larry has said makes Cliton a war criminal and the war in bosnia an illegal war as they did not attack us, right, by the way when will be gettin out of there, this Xmas?

"By the way, when we getting out of there.....?"

Ah, yes. The quagmire that is Bosnia. Good thing Iraq was handled so well.

Oh. Bush is publically talking troop withdrawals from Iraq again. He just can't help himself after Zarqawi's death. What an exuberant fellow.

Or maybe June is just too damned close to November, not that anyone thinks Bush is cynical for such a thing.

Oh but JMFJ You are forgetting that Bosnia and Kosovo were NATO missions using the Article 51 of the UN charter. Do try yet again JMFJ BTW Nice Deflection

Larry

Oh but JMFJ You are forgetting that Bosnia and Kosovo were NATO missions using the Article 51 of the UN charter.

I knew that was coming!

Yav they just love to deflect now don't they. They just can not accept responsibility for supporting a War Crimnal such as Dubya. It's utterly repulsive.

Larry

Yes lets realease all of the poor souls, so they can rejoin the fight against our soldiers who are still fighting in Afganastan. No wait I have a better idea, lets realese them all in America, give them citizenship, and some AK 47's and plans for nuclear bombs. Lets let them move into our finest liberal neighborhoods.

"Let's move them to out finest liberal neighborhoods...."

Let's just fiud out how many are just bureacratic mistakes. Sheeesh.

Aw but you sillys forget, that we were attacked, every time our planes were shot at, we were attacked, so yes do try again on the illegal war thing.

Attacked us, never lived up to the treaty. You folks are too easy.

JMFJ those No Fly Zones were Blatantly ILLEGAL and were NOT UN Sanctioned. Do try yet again. Saddam had EVERY right to fire at Our planes since they were invading His air space. Do try again.


Larry

"JMFJ those No Fly Zones were Blatantly ILLEGAL and were NOT UN Sanctioned. Do try yet again. Saddam had EVERY right to fire at Our planes since they were invading His air space. Do try again."

The no-fly zones were established under United Nations Security Council Resolution 688, after Iraq attempted to halt UN overflights of suspected NBC production areas. The flights were conducted by the US, the UK, and France.

I saw "Rear Admiral" Harris make this comment on the NewsHour. It was pathetic to see this "leader" describe how US troops were neutralized in asymmetric warfare at Gitmo. Harris must resign or be de-commisioned. We cannot afford another asymmetric blow to our troops in Cuba... this is too vital.

Oh shit RCADE Can You delete one of these above posts. I feel like a nincompoop right about now

Larry

Wow, and I thought the talking point about the suicides being a PR stunt were insanely audacious... but that just goes to show that when it comes to Big Lies, these Bushites are truly masters.