A permanant solution to a temporary set of problems,so sad.

These desperate men, quite possibly guilty of nothing but being in the wrong place at the wrong time, have been judged by Rear Admiral Harry Harris, commander of Joint Task Force Guantanamo, as having commited acts of war against the US by committing suicide.

Kafka couldn't have put it better; not in his wildest nightmares.

"They are smart. They are creative, they are committed. They have no regard for life, either ours or their own."

Why don't those guys tie some tires together and sail to Florida, like everyone else in Cuba does?

Three is a good start. Hope all the virgins look like Rosie O'Donnald and that ugly bitch from cats and dogs.

Aloha Snackbar Mutha Truckers.

Probablyl teenager prisoners, not told even why they were being held captive, no chance of ever having a trial, usually originally given over to the military by some disgruntled rival chieftan to settle an old score against their family -- no hope of ever having a trial under the Bush regime, no light at the end of the tunnel, only the prospect of living in a small cage for the rest of their lives -- suicide probably looked a lot better than living, even to those so young.

THIS is what Bush has done to our country. He authorizes and loves torture, guts the Geneva Convention, makes us despised and hated around the world. We were once a proud country and we use to be able to hold our heads up high with pride, but not now, not under this garbage in the White House.

Hold on CC, wait, shooots, I have to get a tissue to wipe the tears from my face. Poor little terrorists, lets set them free in LA, hey that is a great idea. Lets blend them in with the Chicano gangs. Nobody will notice.

Hold on CC, wait, shooots, I have to get a tissue to wipe the tears from my face. Poor little terrorists, lets set them free in LA, hey that is a great idea. Lets blend them in with the Chicano gangs. Nobody will notice.

Posted by DRKNOWITALL

THIS is what Bush has done to your country.

THIS is what Bush has done to your country.

Posted by fribo

Nancy would have them living next door to you. Go wring your hands somewhere else.

Need I remind You that Many of these Detainees are not guilty of ANYTHING Yes that is right. Many of these Detainees Were lured into Warlords homes and then SOLD to Bounty Hunters which in turn turned them over to the CIA. This is why they need trials ALL of them. Weed out the ACTUAL Guilty people and release the ones there by mistake.

Larry

They must have gotten tired of all the fine dining.

Suicide?
Torture driven suicide?
Tortured to death?
Executed?
All we know about it is what they tell us and we know they lie. So we will never know the truth. All we know is this is not it.

Bush, his masters and flunkies have demeaned this nation to the point where yahoos and jingoistas whoop it up and cheer for brutality like their spiritual ancestors yelping in the Circus Maixmus.

People here seem to be jumping the gun. We don't know if these guys were shooting at our forces or not.
They very well could be trying to have people play right into their hands.

They must have been horny

In a regular war, aren't POWs allowed some sort of redress? How come the prisoners at GITMO aren't?

Sucide is the sincerest form of self critism. Let those that want to critise do so.

"In a regular war, aren't POWs allowed some sort of redress? How come the prisoners at GITMO aren't?"

The Gitmo prisoners are not POW's. The status of POW is defined by the Geneva Conventions, which also lays out certain laws of war. To qualify as a POW requires that a combatant be following the laws of war, as well as being a member of an organized army or resistance movement that has agreed to abide by said rules. Al Quaeda and Taliban fighters do not qualify, even though in most cases the Taliban fighters were granted POW status because they were close enough. The AQ fighters are considered by the Geneva Conventions to be unlawful combatants. The only requirement with respect to unlawful combatants is that they be treated humanely, and before recieving punishment they must be afforded a trial in a "regularly constitued court." The 1942 "Ex Parte Quirin" ruling by the SCOTUS is considered to be the precedent with respect to the treatment of unlawful combatants in the US.

The biggest difference between a POW and an illegal or unlawful combantant is the right to repatriation at the war's end. The GC requires that al POW's be repatraited. That's not the case with illgal combatants, which may be held indefinitely.

To put into perspective, other combatants considered to be unlawful include spies and mercenaries. If a country has a law against foreign spying or mercenary activity, they have every right under international law to punish them accordingly, including execution. In the past, that's how it was done. A spy could expect a slow death in an interrogation chamber, a mercenary a bullet through the head.

Right! The asses of those bastards at Gitmo belong to the good old US of A! They're not POWs! They're whatever our commander-in-chief and the rest of the chain of command says they are! We can beat the crap out of them, put them in solitary, attach battery cables to their balls, and do whatever we want, whenever we want, for as long as we want! And only those limp-wristed, candy-ass pansies who support the terrorists would say any different!

I don't belive these prisoners did commit suicide. You can't believe anything this government tells you.

"Other combatants considered to be unlawful include spies and mercenaries...."

Um. Do you know how many US mercenaries serve in Iraq?

I'm sure you'll let their wives and children know your attitude?

"I don't believe these prisoners did committ suicide...."

They were likely murdered.

"Taliban fighters don't qualify (as POWS)...."

Let's talk about the Taliban. What was the national armed forces of Afghanistan during our war there? Did they have a command structure that derived from the recognized government? Did they bear arms openly?

You bet they did. They didn't wear uniforms because they had none. Powell thought these people were POWs, just following the Geneva Conventions.

Thanks for the info.. I find it bizzare that W. takes every effort to convince us that this is a "war", yet refuses to act like it himself when it benefits what he wants to do.

"They're whatever our commander-in-chief and the rest of the chain of command says they are! We can beat the crap out of them, put them in solitary, attach battery cables to their balls, and do whatever we want, whenever we want, for as long as we want!"

Actually, it's the Geneva Conventions that dictate who are or are not POW's. GWB may say whatever he wishes, but so long as he's in compliance with the laws of war and the GC, he's OK. The prisoners must be treated humanely, and be given a trial. That's it.

"Let's talk about the Taliban. What was the national armed forces of Afghanistan during our war there? Did they have a command structure that derived from the recognized government? Did they bear arms openly?"

The Taliban WAS NOT the recognized government of the country of Afghanistan. It was never recognized by the UN. The seat at the UN held by that country was occupied by a member of the Northern Alliance, who were considered the legitimate governing body of that country. Now, the GC also stipulates that insurgents can claim status of POW if they behave in accordance with the laws of war. This includes wearing a uniform or identifying badge, carrying arms openly, and following a chain of command. For the most part, they did this, and in turn were treated as POW's. Iirc, there were originally 5000 detainees at Gitmo, now there are only around 500. AQ, on the other hand broke all the rules, and those that were captured shoud consider themsleves lucky to be alive. Had they been captured by Patton's army, or Zhukov's, or Monty's, they'd have been shot point blank, with few at home sypathising with them.

Suicide? How week is that? Trying being Locked up in Chino like me. Where fear is your best friend. These guys didnt have to worry about some guy stabbing you because of your race. They gained 18 lbs on average. Try eating tortillas and cheese cold and calling that a meal. Their prison is gravy train. Its probably better than where they came from.

"Trying being Locked up in Chino like me."

Are you there currently, or have you moved on to bigger and better things?

"Trying being Locked up in Chino like me."

This COULD explain a lot.

Yawn,nothing to see here,let them all hang themselves and save the taxpayers some money.

ControlledHairs, now listen up! I want you to haul your boney ass down to the recruiting office! Tomorrow! In the mroning! First thing! You've got what it takes to be a fighter in El Presidente's war against the rest of humanity! Show those limp-wrists that you've got what it takes!

"The Taliban was not the recognized government of Afghanistan...."

George Bush, as governor of Texas, had trade delegations from the Taliban over for official visits.

George Bush, as president, provided foreign aide to the Taliban before he decided to bomb them.

"It was never recognized by the UN...."

As if the UN is the final authority on this subject. Saudi Arabia did recognize them, as did Pakistan.

And don't be bashful, ControlledHairs! You've got pair! Swing 'em, and shout out: "Bin Laden has only got one ball, but I got two and maybe three or more!" Say it loud! Say it proud! Then pick your branch, select your favorite method of inflicting hurt on the world, and go for it! We need a few good men! Hell, we need as many good men as we can get! And we even need guys like you for the Chicken Hawk Patrol! Cluck, cluck, cluck!

Capt Big Mouth- You are so against the great satan your idealistic ass should be in the sandbox as a human shield,along with your antiwar cohorts. If your a true believer that is. Carry on private.

ControlledHairs, now hear this, you limp-wristed, pink-panty plucking, full-throttle cluck-clucking cleaner-upper after the Chicken Hawk Patrol: eagles don't screw with flies and the Captain takes no orders from Chicken Hawk Patrol members and their insignificant privates! Get yourself some Chinese laughing balls and act like you got a pair! Continue with your Chicken Hawk Patrol and don't forget them butts over there...NO! Not THOSE butts, ControlledHairs, the cigareet butts! Jeezus, they're just not raising kids like they used to!

Cap'n Medina,

"Continue with your Chicken Hawk Patrol and don't forget them butts over there...NO! Not THOSE butts, ControlledHairs, the cigareet butts! Jeezus, they're just not raising kids like they used to!"

The Good Cap'n is "Funky Cold Medina"!!

Nice rip. Way to tear CP a new one!

Spud is mondo impressed!!

Be Well.

"George Bush, as governor of Texas, had trade delegations from the Taliban over for official visits."

Beleive it or not, the state of Texase does not unilaterally determine the status of wannabe governments. That job is left to the UN.

"As if the UN is the final authority on this subject. Saudi Arabia did recognize them, as did Pakistan."

The UN IS the final authority when it comes to official recognition. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia were financing the Taliban. It was thier baby. Other than direct finacial support, recognizing the taliban as the offical government (as opposed to the recognized government led by Ahmed Shah Masood, who the Arabs positively hated) was a step that they could take individually in the hopes that other states would follow suit, and legitimize the Taliban claim to legitimacy.

"We need a few good men! Hell, we need as many good men as we can get! And we even need guys like you for the Chicken Hawk Patrol! Cluck, cluck, cluck!"

Don't sweat it CP, I fly bombers. I'll drop one for you just to piss off Capt (whom I suspect would be unqualified to captain a bath toy) Medina and his silly, uneducated friends. You dig?

BTW, what on earth is a Chinese laughing ball?

acient mariner long since out and rehabilitated.

The UN is the final authority when it comes to official recognition...."

This is an essential function of national sovereignty the UN hasn't much to say about.

You can argue all you want to, but nations recognize whom they will, for whatever reasons they will.

Let's take this from a different angle. Let's say the UN voted tomorrow not to recognize the United States.

What's going to change? That's right.

Where have all the good times gone?Stop your kicking my ass You hurt my FEELINGS,boo,hoo. Like the bitch coulter makes for a good laugh!

Medina- the self delusion you can enjoy typing at strangers on a screen,kinda nice huh? Chinese laughing balls? how about that vibrating assplug you cherish?

Idiot mouthpiece general commented on that the prisoners who died "opposed US on the battlefield".

If that was the case then General is stating they are soldiers hence their detention in Gitmo is in breach of Geneva Convention.

"Medina- the self delusion you can enjoy typing at strangers on a screen,kinda nice huh? Chinese laughing balls? how about that vibrating assplug you cherish?"

Wouldn't know, ControlledHairs! Vibrating assplugs, Chinse laughing balls, self-delusion: all w/n the realm of the Chicken Hawk Patrol, of which you are an honored member. Cluck-cluck! Patrol on! Give my best to Foghorn Leghorn when next he has you looking for butts...again, I stress, of the ciagreet variety!

"You can argue all you want to, but nations recognize whom they will, for whatever reasons they will."

It's not my argument, dude. It's the argument if the UN. I suspect you found yourself in error by asserting that the Taliban was considered to be the legitimate government in Afghanistan, and rather than admit your error, you choose to maintain an untenable position.

Again, the laws of war and the Geneva Conventions are tools of the United Nations, and are meaningless to parties that don't subscribe to the system of beliefs set forth within them. To say that the UN didn't have the authority to recognize a government or not recognize it means that the UN has no real mandate. many have made that argument before, and I don't disagree, but when you go down that route you must also acknowledge that there is no such thing as a truly "legitimate" government anywhere, and a strong power could at any time replace a weaker government for any reason with no recourse for the government being replaced.

For the last fourty years or so, the International Red Cross has sought to get POW rights granted to illegal combatants. It began in Europe, where they lobbied on behalf of communist terror groups such as the Red Brigades and Baader-Meinhoff, who were treated as common criminals, as opposed to POW's, which they claimed to be be, despite the fact that they technically didn't qualify under the GC. I think that same thing is going on here to some extent, and when members of Baader-Meinhoff committed suicide while in prison, the same types of chrages were levied; that it was the German guvmint, capitalist conspiracists, whatever. Not much has changed.

"Let's take this from a different angle. Let's say the UN voted tomorrow not to recognize the United States."

You seem to be missing the point that the UN DID recognize the government of Afghanistan, it just wasn't the Taliban. A better example would be if the government chose to recognize another organization as the official government instead of the one that actually rules, and even that's not the best example because no one party controlled the country exclusively.

"I suspect you found yourself in error by asserting the Taliban was the legitimate government of Afghanistan...."

Actually, my point that the Taliban was legitimate to whom it was legitimate and not to whom it wasn't.

Pretty much the way nations have treated one another for a few millenia.

Only 3 ? Too bad !

Remember the saying, "Give them enough rope to hang themselves". ...

In a reciprocal situation, most of the "jihadis" would have treated their prisoners far worse than they were treated.

So is it OK to steal from some one because you expect they will steal from you?

I'm looking forward to the "Close Guantanamo Bay and send all the detainees back to their home countries" plank in the Democratic platform for 2006 and 2008.

I'll bet it's not there. I'll bet that the candidate, whoever it is, will tiptoe around the issue and come down on the side of keeping the place open. So will you liberals on here turn against Hillary when she does that?

RIR,

" So will you liberals on here turn against Hillary when she does that?"

Spud certainly will.

Her pro-war position basically makes her ineligible fer POTUS this time around anyway but endorsing Gitmo?

She would be persona non grata to Spud (aka Persona Au Gratin) if it came to that.

Thanx fer askin'.

Be Well.

"Send all (Gitmo) detainees home...."

How about a plank that just states we provide trials or even those wretched Bush tribunals to the inmates left in Gitmo?

You're missing a big point here. There's likely a reason Bush sits on his hands with these people at Gitmo.

Wouldn't it be interesting to find out just exactly how dangerous, just exactly how criminal, just exactly how undeserving these people are and publish that around the world?

Of course it would. Wonder which way that isssue cuts? I'm game if you are.

Colleen Graffy, U.S. deputy assistant secretary of state for public diplomacy, told the BBC World Service the suicides were a "good PR move to draw attention."

"It does sound that this is part of a strategy in that they don't value their own life and they certainly don't value ours and they use suicide bombings as a tactic to further their Jihadi cause," she said.

Graffy coordinates efforts with Karen Hughes, a former top aide to President George W. Bush who is now a special envoy charged with trying to improve the U.S. image abroad, especially in Islamic countries.


Excellent to hear of more of Karen Hughes and her gang of "Image improvers" -

suicide as pr move- wow those Americans are compassionate and wise. Good one Colleen and Karen.

Need I remind you that these men men have done nothing. They were just captured in a war, that's all. They were just trying to kill our troops is all. They are prisoners of war and do not get a trial. We should keep them locked up unitl the war is over, just like we did in the big one, WWII. You fart breaths that want to let them go or put them through our justice system make me sick. Get your head out of your shorts.

"They are prisoners of war and do not get a trial...."

I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts some of them are not even that.

I'll bet you that several REALLY AWFUL bureacratic mistakes are being protected at Gitmo out of political expediency.

Don't want to find out? Really?