Well, it's about time someone sat up and took notice of this.

What I can't figure out is, if Dubya has such a big problem with the bills that he's been signing, why doesn't he use that big, still in it's original package, "Veto" stamp in the bottom right drawer of his desk? Of course, people might tend to take a little more notice of something like that. Besides, what would he do if one of those Veto's got overridden? Kick and scream and hold his breath until it went away?

OCU

OCU?

It's typical of the Retort posters that they would rather argue personal attacks and dimly esoteric arguments in most of the threads, while ignoring this, the most interesting of the day.
The Constitution is being destroyed by this disastrous administration, covertly all the time, and overtly by today's incredibly stupid presentation for the "Marriage Amendment". Bush didn't make any sense at all other than what would be applauded by some ignorant preacher. The Constitution deserves better respect.

Fuck the Marriage Amendment and Fuck any member of Congress who speaks or votes in favor of it. It is a piece of irrelevant crap. (Just what's required in a time of deep division that actually has meaning)(and I mean Iraq, and a few other urgent matters)

Good post, Sitdown. Bush and his cronies should be tried and convicted of high treason against America.

how long untill bush envolks another "state secrets privledge" to get rid of this oversight?
the idea he can pick and choose what laws to follow is a joke....but it explains why he doesnt mind illegal aliens using fake documents and idenity theft.

"Bush has challenged more laws than all previous presidents combined"

He's probably broken more of them, too.

So the days of Emperor Dumbya acting like a li'l tinpot dictator are numbered, eh?

"the world's largest association of legal professionals approved the creation of an all-star legal panel with a number of members from both political parties"

Can you say "dream team" Dumbya?

Can ya?

Spud can!

Woo Hoo!!

Be Well.

"Bush has challenged more laws than all previous presidents combined."
Mission Accomplished, eh, Republicans?

I'm glad to see that a group is stepping up to do the job that Congress should be doing.

So much misinformation in so few posts, where to start...

The Constitution is being destroyed by this disastrous administration"

What your partisanship keeps you from realizing is that all major party politicians couldn't give less of a shit about your constitutional rights. Why do you think so few senators voted against the patriot act? I see the excuse offered that "it was bush's idea," but that's what 2 parties are for. Apparently they both like to wipe their ass with our founding documents.

"Bush and his cronies should be tried and convicted of high treason against America."

Funny, I missed the part where "bush and his cronies" waged war against america or gave aid to our enemies. Spare me the loose analogies to the "war they have waged on our rights" and make a real case for them being tried for treason. Just give it a try.

"it explains why he doesnt mind illegal aliens using fake documents and idenity theft."

Has Bush ever condoned the use of fake docs and identity theft? I'm guessing not, although believing that he has done so probably enables you to get on your intellectual high horse. You are probably the type of person that looks away while democrat politicians vote against VOTER ID bills, effectively ensuring that every immature fraudulently voting naive democrat college student they can get is allowed to vote 8 times a year.

"He's probably broken more of them, too."

What do you know? You live in another country. You have no clue what goes on here, other than what you read in the news source of your choice. Move here, and your opinion will have an ounce of bearing. Until then, worry about the corrupt dipshit politicians running your own country.

"He's probably broken more of them, too."

What do you know? You live in another country. You have no clue what goes on here, other than what you read in the news source of your choice. Move here, and your opinion will have an ounce of bearing. Until then, worry about the corrupt dipshit politicians running your own country.

Posted by JOE at 2006-06-06 02:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Bush has challenged more laws than all previous presidents combined."

Well, I live here and it wasn't an 'opinion' as you liked to call it to better suit your dismissal of the facts.

Re-read the article and work on your replies. They're weak, as usual.

I sure am glad that Bushole is a member of the party intent on upholding "law and order".

Just imagine how many laws he would have ignored if he wasn't.

It gives me shivers.

"Re-read the article and work on your replies. They're weak, as usual."

Yours, on the other hand, was absolutely scathing.

BTW, when I mentioned "opinion," I was referring to that of Dethspud, which was plainly visible in my post. Of course, don't let that stop you from attributing my words to yourself because you have nothing else to say.

okay so let me ask a question,....
IF they find that this was all true....will they bring up all the lawyers who advised bush in these matters.....will they be disbared.....I mean if they are right, then why dont the
FUCKIN AMBULANCE CHASERS have to be held accountable.......

So can I choose which laws I want to follow and which ones I want to ignore? Power to the people, right? Where do these statements come from, why are they legal?

Three cheers for the American Bar Association! At least SOMEONE is trying to fulfill the role of Congress (which should be providing CHECKS and balances to the Executive Branch) around here! Whatever the outcome, BRAVO!

"ABA Investigates Bush Ignoring Laws"

Awe Big Deal!

What's a few laws ignored here and there?

It's NOT like this country was founded on them or anything!

This is a Christian nation and we all know Certified Christians(TM) are above the law!

Sheeze!
Anything just to "hate Bush"!

its about time...

FINALLY...people who actually care about Americans and the constitution, are stepping up to the plate!

"``I think it's very important for the people of the United States to have trust and reliance that the president is not going around the law," Sessions said. ``The importance of it speaks for itself."

It's a shame Republicans don't have the same thought process.

An investigation should have happened a long time ago!!

But..when one wants a dictatorship and others put party before country.....

" why dont the
FUCKIN AMBULANCE CHASERS have to be held accountable"

HUH??? What do Ambulance chasers have to do with a president who consistantly adds statements, sidesteps the laws of the constitution, creating more power for himself, and limiting the branch's power given them by the constitution???

Go back to parroting Rush....even he's not that stupid.

ambulance chasers, of course, doesnt refer to the ones actually,you know chasing them....
and try to just think for a moment about the first occupation of most of the people making the laws.........lawyers......and so we are all hepped up when thier association says that its going to look into this....oh wait....its ANTI bush...so that means that ANYONE can say whatever the hell they want........
just like when the texas leg meets every other year......hold onto your wallets and your ass.....caused your gonna get screwed.....its just a matter of how much............

and I think we will find that any male who has divorced a woman will have the same opinion of lawyers...and it 'aint
a real good one.........

You can't be serious Bushlover...you are equating these accomplished lawyers and judges, with ambulance chasers??

Am I reading you right?

So in other words, you disregard the opinions of those who are most familiar with the law....because they are investigating Bush's action.

As I've been saying for awhile Bushlover:

You are not for America, it's party before country with you!

no lisa.....your LIBERAL bullshit is clouding your reading comprehension.....
I am saying that members of the aba have advised bush on EVERYTHING....therefore if the aba has anyone to investigate....its those lawyers first...not bush......

the ambulance chaser remark is to show my distain for lawyers....and I figured this was the worst thing I could call them.....

BushL2, the ABA is hardly a bastion of radical thought. But your object of worship has gone so far off the acceptable legal track in this society that even that bunch can't stomach it anymore.

ABA. Name another that has Supreme authority when it comes to court rooms.

From what I've heard (and correct me if I'm wrong) but you have a right to represent yourself in court. But, if you take it to any higher court, you must higher a lawyer. You can't represent yourself higher up the chain.

Talk about job security. Just another lobbying group. Too bad they never passed a law preventing lawyers from being in Congress. The laws would have been written in an easy-to-understand format. We probably wouldn't have complex tax laws - simple people would have a simple tax system.

I agree-chasing ambulances. Do you think the high insurance costs of doctors are because of the patients or the lawyers.

How much is that lawsuit for: 10 billion dollars? Who comes up with these figures?

The difference between rats and lawyers is there are some things even rats won't do.

oops. should've been hire

I am saying that members of the aba have advised bush on EVERYTHING

Maybe, but only he is The Decider.

I think the ABA has nothing to do with the people that advised bush on his actions. Bush has a group of close advisors that think about this stuff for him... think about it..

ome of the people that set the ground work for this CRAP are on the SCOTUS...

Alito I think...

All the lawyer bashing here. As if that profession is any more or less corrupt than any other profession. Oh, and that joke about the high cost of medical care being the fault of lawyers, I hope that comment was a joke because it was pretty foolish.
I bet that the lawyer bashers would be right there hiring one if they had a case they could collect on. Kind of like Rush Limbaugh's disdain for the ACLU...until he needed them.

Petrous - I'll have to correct you, because you are wrong. A person has a right to represent him- or herself in court all the way up to the Supreme Court. In fact, someone I know did just that, successfully. (But, as a judge once said to a criminal defendant who was considering whether to hire a lawyer to fight a charge, "if you needed your appendix out, would you hire a doctor, or just do it yourself?"

"As if that profession is any more or less corrupt than any other profession."

Lawyers make the laws. That is why you can sue anyone over anything in this country. Lawyers make money on it. If you don't think our courts are clogged with idiotic lawsuits because lawyers want it that way, then you're not paying attention.

Whether or not they are more corrupt than other professions is not important. The impact corrupt lawyers have is important. The damage corrupt lawyers have already done is far greater than the damage corrupt fry cooks could ever do, for example.

Sully - I see you have swallowed the propoganda of the insurance industry hook, line, and sinker. Our courts are not "clogged" with "idiotic lawsuits." If you think they are, prove it. There is something called summary judgment that is used to get rid of the few trivial or baseless lawsuits that get filed, and there are a lot more junk defenses raised than junk lawsuits filed. Don't be so naive, kid.

Monte,

It's not propaganda. My father-in-law is the CFO for an insurance company - he sees it daily. A lot of times these cases are dismissed in pre-trial, which still costs the defendant considerable dough in attorney's fees and other soft-costs associated with key employees being in court instead of at work. He has also seen his share of BS jury awards: Well, we deem the insurance company to be 1% liable, therefore we are going to award $25 to the plaintiff. However, again the costs associated with just going to court were astronomical.

In the past year, the branch that I work has seen 2 utterly frivolous wrongful termination suits - we won both, but incurred substantial costs in the process.

This is the craziest story I have even seen. Where was the "ABA" when Clinton was passing the Constitution through his shredder once a week?

H

JeffJ - ask your father-in-law whether he has ever heard of an insurance company lawyer bring a meritless defense. Say, failing to admit liability in a straightforward rear-end collision. So many cases could be settled without litigation if insurance defense lawyers who are being paid by the hour, in other words encouraged to raise bogus issues in order to churn a case, would act reasonably and admit liability when it is appropriate.

Monte,

Will do.

Look, I don't mean to imply that the blame should be one-sided. It takes 2 to tango.

That said, I do believe that Sully's overall point was that we are a litigious society. We have far too many lawsuits in general. And while we can subdivide the blame for this among many different demographic groups; the fact remains that Lawyers write the laws and benefit the most from all of this litigation. Unless you feel that we, as a society, have an appropriate level of litigation; I am not sure how you can counter Sully's general point.

Actually, JeffJ, I feel that many otherwise meritorious cases cannot be brought because they cost so much to prosecute. Insurance companies have basically unlimited resources to hire experts and conduct litigation and discovery in a way that makes it economically infeasible to help people with clear liability cases but modest damages.

We already have a powerful check on frivolous lawsuits. Because the attorney for the plaintiff doesn't get paid unless there is a recovery, plaintiff's attorneys are generally very selective about the cases they bring. Plaintiffs' attorneys usually pay the litigation costs in addition to putting in their time to a case, so there is a big disincentive to bringing bad cases - you lose your out-of-pocket money in addition to working for nothing. Also, despite the propoganda you hear, insurance companies and corporations do NOT pay out on frivolous cases. They have a big incentive to not be seen as an easy mark, and they fight bad cases tooth and nail in order to discourage others from litigating questionable cases against them.

If you are not convinced, take a look at the amazing correlation between "litigation crises" and the stock market. Insurance companies make their money from investments. When the stock market goes down, insruance companies lose money and voila, we have a litigation crisis. When the stock market is booming, you never hear anything about a litigation crisis.

Monte,

What I think would be a valuable measuring stick is the number of annual per capita lawsuits filed in the US, compared with 15-20 other civilized countries in the world. I think that standard would give us a better sense as to whether or not we are truly over-litigated.

In addition, I think you are speaking at a slightly more chunked-down level than Sully and myself. You are focusing primarilly on cases involving insurance companies. Sully's original post (a sentiment that I've followed with the proverbial baton pass) is directed at ALL lawsuits. Your focus is a bit more narrow than mine/Sully's.

I think you make good points at your level. Now, chunk-up and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts regarding Sully's original post, at that level of focus.

JeffJ - If you and Sully are talking about business litigation, then I think you have a point. Studies have shown that the number of injury case filings have gone down for the past several decades. Most of the cases "clogging" the court are disputes between businesses and family law matters. Of course, you don't hear about those. Instead, you hear about proposal after proposal to limit jury awards to injured plaintiffs in order to solve our so-called "litigation crisis."

What took them five years? Bush has been writing his own laws and ignoring all the other laws since he took (and ignored) the "Oath of Office" in 2001.

Settle on the court house steps.

If I was at the ABA I sure wouldn't be speaking or using the phone.

"My father-in-law is the CFO for an insurance company - he sees it daily"

Oh, ok, sounds like an unbiased source to me. I've heard enough.

And on the ABA? It'll be a split decision. Those bastards will try and divvy this thing up like Solomon with the baby. (I'm referring to Sol Cohen adn that business with the little baby way back in...oh, hell, forget it...)

Bush reminds me of Saddam: a weak, impotent dictator who doesn't even have control over most of his country.

Go Republitards!

It's worth a try. The more negative publicity the neocons get, the better -- or so one would think. Too bad Cheney won't be the 1st to go, then working around a circle from him. He's the true evil genius of the whole "compassionate conservative" presidency farce.

ABA investigating....Bwaaahaahahah
ahahaha!

Just another political organization who contributes crap loads to there political cause.

They won't investigate shit, and they certainly won't print and show any misdeeds. They know where their political clout comes from, worthless.

Yep! The ABA will do a bang up job with the investigation.

AFFILIATED ORGANIZATIONS WITH DELEGATES IN THE HOUSE

American Immigration Lawyers Association
American Judicature Society
American Law Institute, The
Association of American Law Schools
Association of Life Insurance Counsel
Conference of Chief Justices
Energy Bar Association
Federal Bar Association, The
Federal Circuit Bar Association
Federal Communications Bar Association
Hispanic National Bar Association
Judge Advocates Association
Maritime Law Association of the United States
National Asian Pacific American Bar Association
National Association of Attorneys General
National Association of Bar Executives
National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, Inc.
National Association of Women Judges
National Association of Women Lawyers
National Bar Association, Inc.
National Conference of Bar Examiners
National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws
National Conference of Women's Bar Associations
National District Attorneys Association
National Legal Aid and Defender Association
National Lesbian and Gay Law Association
National Native American Bar Association
National Organization of Bar Counsel, Inc.

Yes, the ABA's motion is an exquisitely positive development from the private sector. Since the original Patriot Act was passed, I've been baffled (stunned, mortified) at the lack of response from the judiciary about being stripped of their power to review and issue warrants. And this before the NSA covert surveillance was known! GO ABA, oh yea!