Some rough-shod, unscholarly work there...

Which religion is more violent in practice? In reality, that is all that really matters.

Yeah, many Christians have fatwa envy.

The Bible is the History of God's chosen people.Sure there was violence it was a struggle for survival. Jesus said there would be wars and rumors of wars.You sometimes fight or be enslaved.

The Bible is the History of God's chosen people

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa a

Laughing at idiots is why I drop by from time to time.

Jesus also called for helping the weakest amongst the flock, and said a rich man cannot get into Heaven easily, but obviously that was when he had made and drank too much wine.

The Conservatives

@#1
Not ready to lay down the sword; unable to rebut ideas thus presented. Incapable of doing the work Christians must do to maintain "intellectual credibility".

IOW, par for the course.

Re' 'The Bible is the History of God's chosen people'

Who said?

What is there something un -chosen about say Eskimo people. African Pygmy people, or any other people of any other ethnic derivation?

The only reason the bible via whatever Christianity had any influence at all was because it got into the power center of the Roman Imperial Court!

Are we just finding this out? The Bible has some very bizarre and violent teachings.

even the Book of Psalms many of which are war poems. Like Psalm 83.

83:9 Do to them as you did to Midian, as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon,

and then there's this little gem...I think I'll make a macro outa this one for one of my Chars.

58:10 The righteous will be glad when they see vengeance, when they bathe their feet in the blood of the wicked.

The Bible is not really a book of Peace.

But, of course, neither is the Quran.

Onward Christian Soldiers!
Marching as to War.
With the Cross of Jesus.. going on before.

(And Team Seal 6 with a awesome double tap)

Which religion is more violent in practice? In reality, that is all that really matters.

#2 | Posted by Sully

How far back you want to go? Boaz ( I think)was bragging about Iraq being Christians 1,500,000 Muslims 4,000.
Afghanistan would be like that. And remember, christians invaded both of those countries. Vietnam-more crosses than cresecent on those bombs. Again, who invaded whom? Iran-Iraq-other than Reagan and Thatcher selling arms to both sides, jesus free.
WW2-no contest. God on both sides.
the same. God on both sides.
American civil war-a monotheist slaughter.

The Bible is two different books.

The Old Testament (the violent part) ends at Acts Chapter 2. We have it for historical reference only. It no longer applies.

The rest is the New Testament, which is about man reconciled to God.

-it got into the power center of the Roman Imperial Court!

As the ancient story goes, Paul was a Roman citizen and his family lived in Rome where Paul was under house arrest. He mentions Claudia and Pudens in one of his NT letters. It was an affluent family which had apparently intermarried with some Britains and in whose home also at times resided Caratacus, the captive King of the Britains who had been captured through the treachery of his own people. He is famous for the speech he made before the Emperor Claudius which bought him limited freedom in Rome.

I prefer Thomas Jefferson's approach. Go only with what Jesus said. Dump all of the miracle stuff, the old testament of everything but the10 commandments and dump all of the remaining interpretive pontificating by the apostles

What you are left with is the most sublime moral code ever written.

Meanwhile, Pakistani soldiers in Africa are awarded United Nations Peace Medal.

-the most sublime moral code ever written.

True, yet Jesus cannot be both a good and wise Master AND someone who falsely claimed to be the long awaited Jewish Messiah as he did in his ministry. ( he did, the idea that it was added later is not supportable with any facts)

He was either good and wise and what he said he was, or he was an incredibly evil liar and faker, he cannot be both.

And as much as we modern folk don't believe in miracles, the OT is chock full of prophecies about the life of the then future Messiah that could not have been controlled in detail by any pretender, particularly considering Roman martial law and the Jewish priest's watchful eyes.

Those poor chumps in Jericho. What did they do to deserve being pillaged?

#16 | Posted by Corky
"he did, the idea that it was added later is not supportable with any facts"

To be fair, though, the idea that he actually made such a claim is ONLY supported by scripture.

Religion is a bunch of bullshit used to divide and control humans.

It's all violent and blood thirsty.

Open your eyes.

He argues that Christians and Jews should struggle to make sense of these violent texts as a central element of their tradition, rather than hurry past them or ignore them altogether.

The first problem is that so many Americans don't even know the truth about American history.

For example, not many Americans know the Christian teaching that smallpox blankets are G-d's gift to European settlers, and that rationale went hand in glove with distributing them from the time of Columbus through the 1860s.

The Texas Board of Education is not going to allow truths like that into any classrooms anytime soon.
Their narrative is that free men worked hard to create a vast empire from an empty continent.
Not that slaves worked hard to build a vast empire acquired by violence and genocide of the people who were here first.

Jews have a particularly violent history, and can count themselves among the most aggressive, warlike cultures on the planet. The #1 Jewish hero King David tended to solve problems by threatening to cut children in half; oddly this is generally regarded as a testament to his incredible wisdom.

The Old Testament (the violent part) ends at Acts Chapter 2. We have it for historical reference only. It no longer applies.

The rest is the New Testament, which is about man reconciled to God.

The Old Testament no longer applies?
Please forward your memo to the other Christians, the ones who keep trying to get the Ten Commandments displayed in every courthouse and school.

Meanwhile, Pakistani soldiers in Africa are awarded United Nations Peace Medal.
pakmr.blogspot.com
We are the religion of peace. The UN just proved it. LOL

#15 | POSTED BY TOSSER AT 2012-02-15 12:32 AM | REPLY

No Tosser, just good soldiers doing their duty.

He argues that Christians and Jews should struggle to make sense of these violent texts as a central element of their tradition, rather than hurry past them or ignore them altogether.
The first problem is that so many Americans don't even know the truth about American history.
For example, not many Americans know the Christian teaching that smallpox blankets are G-d's gift to European settlers, and that rationale went hand in glove with distributing them from the time of Columbus through the 1860s.

Holy shit snoof. Show me that shit in either the bible or the constitution

Holy shit snoof. Show me that shit in either the bible or the constitution

It's not in the Bible or the Constitution, exactly. Though you'll probably find some references in the Congressional Record.

#8 | Posted by Zarathustra at 2012-02-14 10:23 PM | Reply | Flag: Derp, I didn't see number 3... OOPS

One thing that is important to notice, If God is who he says he is in the Jewish Scriptures it changes the whole discussion.

If God is who he says he is

Your imaginary friend never said jack shit, liar.

The babble is nothing but made up shit for the severely retarded.

#27 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2012-02-15 07:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Your cat has done some heavy duty work on your brain with it's Toxoplasma gondii hasn't it?

Your imaginary friend never said jack shit, liar.

#27 | Posted by Zatoichi

I've been reading your posts for years. Neither have you.

Bible contains incitements not just to violence but also to genocide. He argues that Christians and Jews should struggle to make sense of these violent texts as a central element of their tradition, rather than hurry past them or ignore them altogether.

Posted by Zarathustra at 09:30 PM | 29 COMMENTS | permalink | Comment on This Entry |

No one ignores them. It's just that they are nothing but background to subsequent, much more important events. Jesus isn't going to incite anyone to violence or genocide.

Not until the Enlightenment did significant numbers of European intellectuals begin to use the genocidal passages to argue against religion itself. Some, like Thomas Paine, author of Common Sense and a hero of the American Revolution, regarded the God disclosed by these passages as so morally inferior that no civilized people should accept him.

.......the wisdom of a Founding Father.......

It's all violent and blood thirsty.

#19 | Posted by Clownshack at 2012

Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.

.......the wisdom of a Founding Father.......

#32 | Posted by skizziks at

Who was resting his moral indignation on a Christian foundation. One so pervasive, so ingrained, so natural-seeming that he plum forgot he got it from a morally inferior God.

.......the wisdom of a Founding Father.......

#32 | Posted by skizziks at

Thomas Paine wasn't a founding father. Although his pamphlet "Common Sense" was influential to the founders.

Although what he was advocating is quite contrary to the massive centralized state that liberals seek today.

People who lean left should refrain from quoting the founders. What they advocated and created is extremely contrary to what the left seeks today.

Hey, I just found a religious book written by a one-legged lithuanian lesbian ....

Amazingly, it claims one-legged lithuanian lesbians are god's chosen people....

who would have ever thunk it?

The Old Testament (the violent part) ends at Acts Chapter 2. We have it for historical reference only. It no longer applies.

The rest is the New Testament, which is about man reconciled to God.

#12 | Posted by vernon

Yes, it is all very convenient. Except for those parts that are specifically plucked from the Old to serve whatever agenda. Like the whole gay thing for example. Or the Creation story. Or the Exodus story.

The Bible Buffet.

Blessed are the children, for they shall inherit Obama's debt.

BARTLET: I like how you call homosexuality an abomination.

JENNA JACOBS: I don't say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.

BARTLET: Yes, it does. Leviticus.

JENNA JACOBS: 18:22

BARTLET: Chapter and verse.

I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I had you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, and always clears the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be?

While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff, Leo McGarry, insists on working on the Sabbath, Exodus 35:2, clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police?

Here's one that's really important, 'cause we've got a lot of sports fans in this town. Touching the skin of a dead pig makes us unclean, Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point?

Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother, John, for planting different crops side by side?

Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads?

Think about those questions, would you?

The Bible is like the baby and the bath water thing.

There's some good stuff in there.

Love your neighbor as yourself, Do unto others, Parable on the Mount etc.

That's the baby.

Then there's the dirty bathwater that needs to be thrown out.

See: slavery stuff, overly strict and nonsensical religious strictures on dress or diet etc.

Be Well.

"The whole people must take upon themselves the education of the whole people and be willing to bear the expenses of it. There should not be a district of one mile square, without a school in it, not founded by a charitable individual, but maintained at the public expense of the people themselves."

John Adams

Blessed are the children, for they shall inherit Obama's, Bush 2's, Bush 1's, and Reagan's debt.

Thomas Paine wasn't a founding father.
#35 | Posted by JeffJ

.....List of the Top Ten Founding Fathers.......

1. George Washington

2. John Adams

3. Thomas Jefferson

4. James Madison

5. Benjamin Franklin

6. Samuel Adams

7. Thomas Paine

Library of Congress, Prints and Photographs DivisionThomas Paine was the author of a very important pamphlet called Common Sense that was published in 1776. He wrote a compelling argument for independence from Great Britain. His pamphlet convinced many colonists and founding fathers of the wisdom of open rebellion against the British if necessary. Further, he published another pamphlet called The Crisis during the Revolutionary War that helped spur on the soldiers to fight.

8. Patrick Henry

10. Gouverneur Morris

.......link:

Every jot and title of the Bible may be used for instruction and Joshua's march into Jericho gives us a great example of how to fight a war. Kill every man, woman, child and animal and then burn the place down. We haven't followed that model and that is why we haven't won a war since WWII and why Islam will prevail against Western Civilization.

Fun-loving Warrior Thom

What a flaming chickenhawk Foosball Wanker Thom is.

People who lean left should refrain from quoting the founders. What they advocated and created is extremely contrary to what the left seeks today.
#35 | Posted by JeffJ

......the Founders were the avant garde liberals of their day......

......the conservatives of the day were the Loyalists, who supported the status quo......

......it is comical that the conservative movement of today, has nearly caught up to the liberal thought of the 1700's.......but not quite.....because even back then, many of the founders were smart enough to see through the backward quackery of religion.........

......the Founders were the avant garde liberals of their day......

......the conservatives of the day were the Loyalists, who supported the status quo......

Conservatives of today come far closer to embracing the founding principles of this country than do today's liberals.

......it is comical that the conservative movement of today, has nearly caught up to the liberal thought of the 1700's.......but not quite.....because even back then, many of the founders were smart enough to see through the backward quackery of religion.........

They were deists who invoked God in the Declaration of Independence.

Blessed is Obama for giving me 20 bucks a week until the end of 2012. -Danni

Kill every man, woman, child and animal and then burn the place down. #43 | Posted by fwthom

......another pro-life Christian.......

What is it about religion that impairs the irony gene ?

They were deists who invoked God in the Declaration of Independence.
#46 | Posted by JeffJ

......they were a mixed bag, and lots of them were smart enough to be atheists........read your history.......

Skizz,

I guess it depends on how we define Founding Father. I usually think of that term as it pertains to the drafting of the Constitution. Maybe that is far too literal of an interpretation.

......they were a mixed bag, and lots of them were smart enough to be atheists........read your history.......

I have read my history. They respected and revered the freedom to worship without interference from the state.

Actually, James Madison actively tried to conceal his religion (if any), going so far as to have his wife destroy many of their personal correspondence after his death.

Being from Virginia which did have a state sponsored religion, he went to college in New Jersey which did not. The impression this left on him became evident when he returned to VA to witness the persecution of the growing baptist population by the elites and the government. It was largely this revelation that lead to his lifelong devotion to seperate the role of church from the role of the general government.

They were deists who invoked God in the Declaration of Independence.

#46 | Posted by JeffJ

Just in case the uninitiated have a concern, Deists are not atheists. I know this for a fact because I am a Deist.

Small minded men need to call god by different names to justify their own political agendas.

-The #1 Jewish hero King David tended to solve problems by threatening to cut children in half;

That would have, of course, famously been David's wiser son Solomon, who offered to cut the baby in half to see which woman was the real mother.

-The Bible Buffet

-The Old Testament no longer applies?
Please forward your memo to the other Christians, the ones who keep trying to get the Ten Commandments displayed in every courthouse and school.

These dumb-asses will always exist; always want the state to reflect their supposed values without understanding what our Constitution is really all about.

One should remember a couple of things about the OT.

It was written in and about a time in history between 3500 and 4000 years ago, so it was a little less civilized, although hardly less bloodthirsty than today if we consider the millions killed in modern warfare just the last hundred years or so.

Two, Christianity starts with declaring the old Law of the Jews fulfilled, finished, and a new era of grace and peace, a "succession of againstness", between God and all men, including non-Jews (Gentiles).

So the OT laws were a schoolmaster to the primitive Jews and albeit in some ways instructive to the new Christians, not binding law and Christians were warned against binding themselves to even part of the law that they might not be debtors to the whole law.

If you understand even those few things, you likely understand more than your average TV evangelist.

-smart enough to be atheists

The arrogance is both ugly and laughable.

There have always been and are now brilliant theists and atheists among us.

One way to tell the bright ones is that they are more humble, open minded people than arrogant egoists who constantly and consistently mistake their personal opinions, which everyone is entitled to, for proven scientific fact, which it is most certainly not.

"brilliant theists"

Oxymoron much?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Liar.

"Religion is all bunk."
~Edison

#55 | Posted by Corky

And what of Creationism then?

#57

One blind man's opinion.

Fine to take your opinion as fact for yourself, but please don't be proselytizing here, eh?

#56 | Posted by Corky
.....come on Corky.....you & I both know that there's no God.....it's just a scam to fleece money from the dummies.....

But the discussion here was about the adoption of the Founding Fathers by the conservative movement as some sort of patriotic conservative saints.
Fact is, they were the most avant garde liberal thinkers of their day, regardless of whether they were deists or atheists.
The attempt by contemporary conservatives to adopt those early liberals is laughable.
If the conservatives of today were transported back in time, they would be fighting on the side of the monarchy to maintain their conservative values.

I will really look forward to you religion haters taking on Muhammad with the same zeal that you take on Christianity. Somehow I doubt you have the ball's for that.

-And what of Creationism then?

What about it?

Even many atheist scientists will admit the universe at least looks as if it were designed for us, complete with laws of operation.

If even one a multitude of variables in our physical reality were changed even slightly, we would not exist.

No one has proven scientifically one way or another as of yet how the BB happened or what the "singularity occurring millionths of a second prior to the "creation" of space/time was, or what came before it, though that theory is still standing.

-Fact is, they were the most avant garde liberal thinkers of their day, regardless of whether they were deists or atheists.
The attempt by contemporary conservatives to adopt those early liberals is laughable.
If the conservatives of today were transported back in time, they would be fighting on the side of the monarchy to maintain their conservative values.

Agreed.

.....come on Corky.....you & I both know that there's no God.....it's just a scam to fleece money from the dummies.....

Your opinion and you are welcome to it.

It's simple, easy, and requires no soul.

I will really look forward to you religion haters taking on Muhammad with the same zeal that you take on Christianity. Somehow I doubt you have the ball's for that.
#61 | Posted by paneocon

.....we treat all religions with the derision they deserve......

.....we have had some epic threads about Islam, but that is not the topic today......

It's simple, easy, and requires no soul.

......plus we get to sleep in on Sundays.......you can't beat that....

#65 Like I said, simople an easy.

People should always stay within their limits.

simple, not sure what a simople is

#64 | Posted by skizziks

I tend to treat religion as a live and let live issue.

The Old Testament (the violent part) ends at Acts Chapter 2. We have it for historical reference only. It no longer applies.
#12 | Posted by vernon

Maybe not in the Church of Vermin the Boneheaded & Ignorant.

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"

What Vermin's really trying to say between hiccups and belches is that only those parts of the Old Testament which he does not deem inconvenient apply; even then, only when he decides they apply.

It's called the The Humpty Dumpty Theorem of Biblical Applicability.

"'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'"

Politics and religion are things that almost everyone it seems is an expert on. But isn't it what, 10K hours of study on average that is required on most subjects to be considered an expert?

Most of the "experts" on religion here haven't spend 30 solid hours of study on that subject, much-less 10K, but they are experts nonetheless.

Same with politics, lol.

-until everything is accomplished

By which he meant his pending fate; the death and ressurection of the Messiah. At which point all the Law became null and void, fulfilled by his sacrifice.

At least that is the story.

Verm happens to be right for once in his life.

"Which religion is more violent in practice? In reality, that is all that really matters.

#2 | Posted by Sully

How far back you want to go?"

It depends on which question you want to answer. If its "which religion is most violent" (as in now) then you have to look at recent events. That's probably the most relevant question if you're weighing the merits of different religions as practiced in the present.

If you want to discuss history, that's fine too.

Just as long as we realize there's a different between present and past....

If you want to more fully understand the distinction and interaction between the old and new testament, read through the book of Hebrews. It explains it quite nicely.

You don't want to take the time, then it may be best not to call others ignorant.

If you want to get a contextual understanding of what was going on in the old testament in regard to the people of Canaan etc, listen to the audio in #3

#74 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2012-02-15 12:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

And that is just a fractional beginning of looking into the issue.

Conservatives of today come far closer to embracing the founding principles of this country than do today's liberals.
#46 | Posted by JeffJ

......so you agree that today's conservatives are now catching up to the liberal politics of the 1700's......you are just admitting to being slow......

......our founding fathers were radically liberal in their day, and had they lived, their thinking would have evolved over 300 years of progress......

.......they were not conservatives then.....and they would not be conservatives today.....

I tend to treat religion as a live and let live issue.
#68 | Posted by paneocon

.....I would as well....if only religions and the religious would not make life so miserable for so many.....

People who don't think that American religious TV is the sum total of theism today know that millions of people are helped daily in one way or another by religious people who are often overcoming the many foibles of organized religion to do so.

It is somewhat convoluted, but as interpreted by some scholars according to the Bible we should all support Mitt for President. It has to do with the evil of Roman tax collectors and not throwing stones at women and Lazarus being raised from the dead. It's very complicated but the point is that when properly understood it is clear that Jesus wants all of us to support Mitt in November.

#79 Citation necessary.

Take my word for it. I'm a good Christian. I wouldn't mislead you.

No citation necessary.

Anyone who reads bit and pieces of the Torah, Koran, or Bible will walk away with a misconception about that book. They all preach violence on one page and peace on the next. They were written in violent times to try and control irrational and violent people, so they must be written in the language of violence so that they would be taken seriously.

If I am talking to you, and want you to understand what I am saying, I must convey it in your language.

Take my word for it. I'm a good Christian. I wouldn't mislead you.

That statement violates the book of Matthew, making you a bad Christian.

Christ wouldn't follow Christ. Being Christian is to be as Christ. Therefore, anyone who follows Christ is not a Christian.

#81

Book of Bradford, Chapter 6 verse 11 was the correct answer.

The travelogue book, "Two Weeks Alone in Thailand" by Bradford Winston III was also acceptable.

Kanrei, have you been raiding Doc Stupid's stash of stupid pills?

No citation necessary.

No Brad. If you didn't understand my post however, you did.

As I believe Carlin said: Jesus and Buddha came to Earth to tell people that G-d is within them all and they don't need to follow anyone to find enlightenment. The people then started religions based on both to show how well they understood the lesson.

Besides, everyone knows that Jesus supports Rick Santor..., oh, wait a minute....

Besides, everyone knows that Jesus supports Rick Santor..., oh, wait a minute....

Posted by Corky at 2012-02-15 02:30 PM |

We know who Jesus supported in every previous election- G-d doesn't lose.

Corky, you are such a moron. Jesus would never support Rick Santorum. Rick Santorum is Italians. A bunch of Italians crucified Jesus 2000 years ago. No way Jesus would ever drive a car with a Santorum '12 bumper sticker on it.

Mitt on the other hand is right up Jesus' alley. You know Jesus would make a healthy donation to Mitt's campaign.

No citation necessary.

Jesus wouldn't vote. He wouldn't register to vote. He wouldn't take part in that system. He would allow G-d's will to decide the leader. He allowed himself to be killed in the most horrendous way because it was G-d's will, so there is no chance he would try to vote.

Great. Now a Jewish is teaching me about Jesus and how to interpret the New Testament. Tell ya what Kanrei, if you are interested I'll be happy to teach all about biblical interpretation and I guarantee that for the first time ever it will all make perfect sense to you.

No citation necessary.

Now a Jewish is teaching me about Jesus and how to interpret the New Testament.

Yeah...damn Jews. WTF was Jesus thinking telling Christians how to read?

-so there is no chance he would try to vote.

Jesus is Ray?

Ray will be SO disappointed to find that out... not to mention Jesus!
He'll be devastated.

WTF was Jesus thinking being a Jew himself??

Don't tell Bradford that Jesus was a Jew. That's gotta be almost as bad as being Italian to him.

Besides, like Kinky Friedman sang, they "Don't Make Jews Like Jesus Any More".

Given his hate of all things Roman, it is shocking he calls Jesus "Jesus" considering Jesus is a Roman name. Jewish names didn't end in "us," Roman names did.

#76 | Posted by skizziks at 2012-02-15 02:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Just where did the Founding Fathers moral grounding used to bring about the moral documents of the United States come from?

"intellectual honesty demands recognition of the fact that what passes as 'secular,' 'Western' principles of basic human rights developed nowhere else than out of key strands of the biblically-rooted religion."
-Max Stackhouse, "A Christian Perspective on Human Rights," Society (January/February 2004): 25.

"More recently, the chief movers establishing a Universal Declaration on Human Rights of 1948 (which speaks of humans being "endowed with reason and conscience") were primarily church coalitions and individual Christian leaders who worked closely with some Jewish rabbis to create a "new world order" of human rights."
-Max Stackhouse, "A Christian Perspective on Human Rights," Society (January/February 2004): 24. (See also Max L. Stackhouse and Stephen E. Healey "Religion and Human Rights: A Theological Apologetic," in J. Witte Jr and J. D. van der Vyer, eds., Religious Rights in Global Perspective (Dordrecht: Kluwer, 1996), 486. Mary Ann Glendon, The World Made New: Eleanor Roosevelt and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (New York: Random House, 2001).

"Christianity has functioned for the normative self-understanding of modernity as more than just a precursor or a catalyst. Egalitarian universalism, from which sprang the ideas of freedom and a social solidarity, of an autonomous conduct of life and emancipation, the individual morality of conscience, human rights, and democracy, is the direct heir to the Judaic ethic of justice and the Christian ethic of love. This legacy, substantially unchanged, has been the object of continual critical appropriation and reinterpretation. To this day, there is no alternative to it. And in light of current challenges of a postnational constellation, we continue to draw on the substance of this heritage. Everything else is just idle postmodern talk."
- Jurgen Habermas, Time of Transitions, ed. and trans. Ciaran Cronin and Max Pensky (Cambridge: Polity, 2006), 150-1.

"One of the things we were asked to look into was what accounted for the success, in fact, the pre-eminence of the West all over the world," he said. "We studied everything we could from the historical, political, economic, and cultural perspective. At first, we thought it was because you had more powerful guns than we had. Then we thought it was because you had the best political system. Next we focused on your economic system. But in the past twenty years, we have realized that the heart of your culture is your religion: Christianity. That is why the West has been so powerful. The Christian moral foundation of social and cultural life was what made possible the emergence of capitalism and then the successful transition to democratic politics. We don't have any doubt about this."
- Statement of a CASS scholar in David Aikman, Jesus in Beijing: How Christianity Is Transforming China and Changing the Global Balance of Power (Washington, DC: Regnery, 2003), 5

The closest thing to Jesus religious-wise IMHO would be Jews for Jesus. Being Christian is to be "Christ-like" and Jesus was born, lived, and died Jewish. Therefore, to be truely Christ-like would mean to be Jewish.

#96 Yep. Yesu or Joshua/Yeshua, really.

Bradford refuses to hire gardeners named Hey-zeus.

Obviously Kanrei is a very stupid man. We should all shun him.

No citation necessary.

The word means literally "little Christ", but was taken to mean a "follower of Christ".

We should all shun him

You start; stop responding. Lead by example. =D

No Kanrei. I pity you. By responding to your misguided posts maybe I can help you. Have you ever considered getting baptized? It would do ya a world of good. Let me know.

No citation necessary.

The word means literally "little Christ",

Like Little Cesar's?

Jesus! Jesus!

By responding to your misguided posts maybe I can help you.

But you called for me to be shunned. Do you not even follow your own posts?

Have you ever considered getting baptized?

I was Bar Mitzvahed...like Jesus was. Why do you hate Christ so much you refuse to follow his example?

Brad, I hope I can call him Brad.... Brad's use of "stupid" reminds me of Ris' unintentionally funny use of "Your"re stupid" as a constant retort.

So K, I don't think I would put on a flimsy white gown and go onto the water with Brad, either.

As a Rwinger, he's be too tempted to water-board me while we were there.

You can call me Brad. It doesn't sound as distinguished as Bradford, but it is okay. Can I call you Cork? The name "corky" sounds like quirky. But Cork sounds like Kirk. Like Captain Kirk. Who was a very notable figure.

No citation necessary.

I've got some intriguing plans! Are you both game? Oh, also if you are married don't tell your husband.

No citation necessary.

Posted by BradfordWinston at 2012-02-15 03:02 PM

Mine eyes have seen the hypocrisy that Matthew wrote about
The actions of men like Bradford sure would make poor Jesus pout
Looking at all the others makes him love to scream and shout
His hypocrisy rages on

You are such a dumb donkey. Listen, if you want to get baptized or any type of religious training I'll be glad to help out. Other than that, think deeply before posting.

No necessary.

a very notable figure, lol!

Intuition, however illogical, is recognized as a command prerogative.

--CAPTAIN KIRK, Star Trek: The Original Series, "Obsession"

Excuse me ... Excuse me. I'd just like to ask a question ... What does God need with a starship?

--CAPTAIN KIRK, Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

Listen, if you want to get baptized or any type of religious training I'll be glad to help out.

Heal Yourself - Jesus

Besides, there are good Christians here I would gladly discuss the issues with and I do learn from. Grendel and Corky being two of them. Lisa has taught me a lot as well, but nothing beats the actual source.

"The word means literally 'little Christ'"

Like Little Cesar's?

Jesus! Jesus!

#104 | Posted by kanrei at 2012-02-15 03:01 PM

Dang. Now you've got me hankerin' for a mushroom and pepperoni pizza.

I wish someone would invent a fruit that tasted delicious, had no seeds, and would scream when you ate it.

"Deep Thoughts" with Brad Handy

Just where did the Founding Fathers moral grounding used to bring about the moral documents of the United States come from?
#97 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

.....there you go confusing volume with depth again......

Our system of governance owes more to the Greek and Roman models that pre-dated Christianity, than to anything found in Christianity itself.

Indeed Christianity was used for centuries to justify the Divine Right of Kings, slavery, and other very un-American ideals.

#116 | Posted by skizziks at 2012-02-15 03:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

You missed the point, and added some "postmodern talk" along with it.

Jurgen Habermas is less than a staunch Christian if you knew him.

China is less than a fan of Christianity in most cases.

Again, history shows that Christianity (along with Judaism) was one of the PRIMARY leading to the current human rights we see today.

Also note, slavery in American was not based on not granting human rights to all. It was under the false premise that the slaves were not human... of course Jesus made clear that was not the case. People messed that one up.

You do like to go against history don't you?

I gave sourced, you gave "postmodern talk" as Jurgen would say.

Jurgen Habermas is less than a staunch Christian if you knew him.

No true scotsman, eh?

I gave sourced,
#117 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

.....you provided some else's opinion, not a historical fact......

....Christianity and Judaism have no democratic elements, while the Roman and Greek systems that pre-dated Christianity, had varying degrees of democratic institutions, such as elected assemblies, elected Senates, and constitutions......

.......you provided opinions, I provided historical facts, .....

#119 | Posted by skizziks at 2012-02-15 03:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Do you understand the difference between democratic elements and moral foundations?

In case you missed it, this was my question in #97 (even though you already copied and pasted it in your #116)

Just where did the Founding Fathers moral grounding used to bring about the moral documents of the United States come from?

And of course that is what the information stated.

Also, the authors of those books are dealing with historical information.

#118 | Posted by Dr_Icepick at 2012-02-15 03:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

He's a staunch atheist.

"Just where did the Founding Fathers moral grounding used to bring about the moral documents of the United States come from? "

What "moral documents" are you talking about?
English Common Law and Enlightenment philosophy.

Shove your forgery and your lies up your ass you sanctimonious piece of lying shit.

#122 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2012-02-15 04:57 PM | Reply | Flag: DERP - Toxoplama-gondii addled brain - DERP

"intellectual honesty demands recognition of the fact that what passes as 'secular,' 'Western' principles of basic human rights developed nowhere else than out of key strands of the biblically-rooted religion."
-Max Stackhouse, "A Christian Perspective on Human Rights," Society (January/February 2004): 25.

Intellectual honesty also demands recognition that centuries of ethnic cleansing in Europe, North America, and South America also developed out of the key strands of biblically-rooted religion.

Intellectual honesty also demands recognition that centuries of ethnic cleansing in Europe, North America, and South America also developed out of the key strands of biblically-rooted religion.

#124 | Posted by snoofy at 2012-02-15 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

A religion practices rituals/rights in order to reach/climb/earn favor with a God or Gods. Christianity of the new testament is not a religion. Christians are followers of the Christ, who was revealed in the New Testament. The Gospel of the New Testament clearly states this is a impossible task. Because we were created in the image of God, God came to man in the form of a man. He was called Jesus. Christ taught that all men and women are equal in the 'eyes' of God.

So true followers of the Christ would not participate in or encourage 'ethnic cleansing'. Those who practice "the religion of Christianity" are not the same as followers of of the Christ.

Lots of violence reported in the Old Testament seemingly endorsed by God.
Can you find evidence of violence being promoted by the followers of Jesus in the New Testament? Societies evolve and new ways of behavior are promoted. Some Muslims may promote non violence, but the ones doing most of talking and acting seem to be in favor of violence. Perhaps they too will evolve in their belief system and will desist from promoting violence.
The oral tradition was not written in the early days of the Hebrews. All the Scriptures had to be taken from oral to written and had to be translated by some human from Greek and Aramaic. Humans are weak, sinful and do not always do what is right. It would seem unlikely that errors would occur and that personal bias would creep in take the text fit more with the translators point of view.
Was the writer's point that if the Bible had violence in it, violence by the Muslims and the secularists was not so bad after?

"Can you find evidence of violence being promoted by the followers of Jesus in the New Testament? Societies evolve and new ways of behavior are promoted. Some Muslims may promote non violence, but the ones doing most of talking and acting seem to be in favor of violence. Perhaps they too will evolve in their belief system and will desist from promoting violence."

Depends on what you consider "violence"

Matthew
10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Acts
3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Romans
1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

1 Timothy
2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

As for the "Old" and "New" testaments being separated. Jesus would be disappointed with that lie.

Hebrews
10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Matthew
5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

It's like you guys dont know how to read.

"It's like you guys dont know how to read."

Posted by soulfly at 2012-02-15 11:27 PM | Reply

Since everything you quoted was forged, I could give a fuck.

#124 | Posted by snoofy at 2012-02-15 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Intellectual honest individuals also have to be able to distinguish commands from the text from incorrect practices of human beings after the fact. And by the post of Soulfly some people obviously seem to need a few lessons in context.

Revelation 21:8 shows that violence is well within the realm of the present and future for Christians. Violence done by God directly, to those who repeatedly refuse Jesus and His blood.

The record of the New Testament and Christians that follow it are NOT one of violence, but....THERE WILL BE BLOOD.

We Christians won't be the one shedding though.

Zatoichi, the resident DR version of Nicki Minaj.....just can't leave the religious imagery and rhetoric alone, being driven on my an unseen, unclean force...

"Revelation 21:8"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Another superstitious lying shitstain rears it tiny little head.

"It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it and I then considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."
~Jefferson

Issac Newton's Views on on Prophecy, Revelation and the End of Times

The Bible makes clear that it is not okay to kill people unless they attack you or you need their land to settle on.

No citation necessary.

"Revelation 21:8 shows that violence is well within the realm of the present and future for Christians. Violence done by God directly, to those who repeatedly refuse Jesus and His blood."

If your gonna take this myth to the "Old" testament then there's enough violence to make a horror movie.

"Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants." (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." Exodus 21:20-21 NAB

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." Deuteronomy 22:28-29

"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." Psalms 137:9 NAB

"This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.'" (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. "Go up baldhead," they shouted, "go up baldhead!" The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces." (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)

"The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords." (Hosea 13:16 NLT)

Yeah, yeah, context, your take this out on "context"
Express you ever think maybe your imagining a larger context?
That would require some thought, but I think you could do it.
You don't read this shit a realize your believing in a myth rolled into a lie? Oh, so naive. Poor christians so misguided by those that gain a salary preaching from the pulpit. There maybe a "higher power" but GOD is not its name. "No one" knows its name,or if it even exist.
But the bible is known to be written by man, to control man. And your it's slave if you call your self a "believer".

#135

Reitze has another log in name now?

But the bible is known to be written by man, to control man. And your it's slave if you call your self a "believer".

#135 | Posted by soulfly at 2012-02-16 11:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

Of course you are obviously not a slave... you are smart enough to know what is unknowable and avoid the horrible ramifications thereof.

Again, context. You are lacking it.

#119 | Posted by skizziks at 2012-02-15 03:58 PM | Reply | Flag:
Do you understand
#120 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

.......I understand that everytime you are shown to be wrong, you deflect off onto some other half-related topic trying to obfuscate the issue......

.....it is really not worthwhile trying to discuss anything with you...

#138 | Posted by skizziks at 2012-02-16 12:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

And yet, here you are, responding, without any source material on top of everything else.

Face it, the moral foundations and rights of American are founded upon the concepts in Judeo-Christian concepts and principles.

But the bible is known to be written by man, to control man. And your it's slave if you call your self a "believer".

#135 | Posted by soulfly at 2012-02-16 11:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

Of course you are obviously not a slave... you are smart enough to know what is unknowable and avoid the horrible ramifications thereof.

Again, context. You are lacking it.

#137 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

There are many forms of slavery. Your mind is obviously enslaved.

Only fools can't or won't admit when they are slaves to something or someone else.

Speaking of context. in or out this is one creepy bedtime story

Judges 4:21

Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died

Then Jael, Heber's wife, took a nail of the tent,.... When she perceived he was fast asleep, and it being now put into her heart to kill him, having an impulse upon her spirit, which she was persuaded, by the effect it had upon her, that it was of God; not filling her with malice and revenge, but a concern for the glory of God, the interest of religion, and the good of Israel, she took this method to effect the death of this enemy of God, and his people; having no arms in the house, for the Kenites used none, she took up an iron pin, with which her tent was fastened to the ground:

and took a hammer in her hand; which perhaps she knew full well how to handle, being used to drive the pins of the tents into the ground with it:

and went softly unto him; lest she should awake him

and smote the nail into his temples: as he lay on one side, these being the tenderest part of the head, from whence they have their name in the Hebrew language, and into which therefore a nail, or iron pin, might be more easily driven:

and fastened it into the ground; she smote the nail with such force and violence, that she drove it through both his temples into the ground on which he lay; and then, as it seems, from Judges 5:26; cut off his head, to make sure work of it:

for he was fast asleep and weary; and so heard not; when she came to him:

so he died; not in the field of battle, but in a tent; not by the sword, but by a nail; not by the hand of a man, but of a woman, as Deborah foretold, Judges 4:9.

Now go to sleep damn it!

#140 | Posted by donnerboy at 2012-02-16 01:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's an event during a period of war... do you expect war to be sanitized?

I also don't see a command that an individual is supposed to take that action as part of their religious faith in Christianity.

You are a liar. In the context to "reality".

Acts 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Mark 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

#142 | Posted by soulfly at 2012-02-16 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Can you tell the difference between humans being violent to humans and God enacting due punishment on humans?

Face it, the moral foundations and rights of American are founded upon the concepts in Judeo-Christian concepts and principles.
#139 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

.....You are not making sense......pure garbled nonsense.......

...but I'll play......

....name the first four Moral Foundations:
1.
2.
3.
4.

.....we'll get to the rest later....
Democracy was founded in Greece. Our system of Republics was founded in Greece and Rome. So let's start with whatever you think are the "foundations and rights of American" and we'll go from there to see where they originate.

It's an event during a period of war... do you expect war to be sanitized?

Seems your God loves watching a good War amongst the Humans.

And this story, while about war, shows that "for the glory of God, the interest of religion, and the good of Israel, she took this method to effect the death of this enemy of God".

Or did you miss that part?

Cause as we know...all the enemies of God must die and spikes through the head are approved by God Himself.

Even Jesus was threatening fire and brimstone in hell to those who wouldn't follow him.

#144 | Posted by skizziks at 2012-02-16 02:45 PM | Reply | Flag

I gave sources that talk about the rights available in America. You have provided nothing.

______________

#145 | Posted by donnerboy at 2012-02-16 03:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

I didn't miss any part. Of course the portion you quote is commentary, not from the scripture itself.

Secondly, you seem unable to understand, again, specific context of time and events. This was during a period that has a specific context, not a broadly applied principle of practice.

You also seem to be unable to tell the difference between your incorrect statement of "all the enemies of God must die" and the true statement of "all the enemies of God will dies"

They don't have to die, but they will most from natural means.

Either way, it is not like there is anything that will change the mind of you or Skizzy anyway.

Thanks for the laughs.

Secondly, you seem unable to understand, again, specific context of time and events. This was during a period that has a specific context, not a broadly applied principle of practice.
#147 | POSTED BY EXPSREDEMPTION

LMFAO! Tell that to the millions of biblical literalists out there in "voting land".

And as much as we modern folk don't believe in miracles, the OT is chock full of prophecies about the life of the then future Messiah that could not have been controlled in detail by any pretender, particularly considering Roman martial law and the Jewish priest's watchful eyes.
#16 | Posted by Corky

As gullible as a child.

Every one of those so-called prophecies was taken out of context and applied to Jesus. For example, one Christian favorite, Isaiah's Suffering Servant was about a leper king Isaiah knew early in his life. It had nothing to do with Jesus.

There is no need to speculate on where the Founders looked for inspiration. Just ask them.

1825 letter to Henry Lee, Jefferson identifies his sources for the Declaration's principles. He names as sources: Aristotle, Cicero, Locke, and (Algernon) Sidney -- he does not mention the Bible. Then again, the terminology in the Declaration is not specifically Christian -- or even biblical, with the exception of "Creator." The term "providence" is never used of God in the Bible, nor are "nature's God" or "Supreme Judge of the world" ever used in the Bible.

"In the hundreds of pages comprising Madison's notes on the constitutional convention (and those of the others who kept notes), there is no mention of biblical passages/verses in the debates/discussions on the various parts and principles of the Constitution. They mention Rome, Sparta, German confederacies, Montesquieu, and a number of other sources -- but no Scripture verses.

In The Federalist Papers, there is no mention of biblical sources for any of the Constitution's principles, either -- one would think they could squeeze them in among the 85 essays if they were, indeed, the sources; especially since the audience was common men who were familiar with, and had respect for, the Bible. The word "God" is used twice -- and one of those is a reference to the pagan gods of ancient Greece. "Almighty" is used twice and "providence" three times -- but neither is ever used in connection with any constitutional principle or influence. The Bible is not mentioned."
-Dr. Gregg Frazer christian apologist and theology professor

Face it, the moral foundations and rights of American are founded upon the concepts in Judeo-Christian concepts and principles.
#139 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

Wrong again. They were founded on English Common Law which had evolved from the Magna Carta. The Catholic Church had no influence on law making. After the English Civil War that resulted in the beheading of King Charles, the Puritan Oliver Cromwell, was ruthless in enforcing Puritan dogma. American history books teach that the Puritans came to America to escape persecution. What they don't say is that the Puritans made a lot of enemies by the time Cromwell died and the crown was restored.

Issac Newton's Views on on Prophecy, Revelation and the End of Times
www.newtonproject.sussex.ac.uk
He was another low IQ'er, eh?
#133 | Posted by Corky

What a dumb argument. High IQ people are just as vulnerable to error as anybody else.

High IQ people are just as vulnerable to error as anybody else.
POSTED BY RAY

No, they are simply more apt to admit when they are wrong and learn from their errors. This is a one of the main factors that separates highly intelligent people from non-intelligent people.

Which is why you see those of lower intelligence relying so much on religion. The religious don't have to admit when they are wrong - they are lead by faith.

Although you do find such scenarios amongst highly intelligent individuals, they are relegated as outliers and not a significant percentage of the main group.

High IQ people are just as vulnerable to error as anybody else.
Posted by Ray

I have to disagree. At the top it's about the quality of the errors, not the quantity. And by quality I mean the error's ability to withstand counterexample and/or refutation.

-Every one of those so-called prophecies was taken out of context and applied to Jesus.

Yeah, all 100+ of them. Espescailly the ones that no one could have controlled even if they wanted to, and the ones Jesus pointed out himself.

Every Jew knew all the signs of the Messiah, but none could have orchestrated the Romans and the Pharisees to comply with all the details as they happened.

#141 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2012-02-16 01:38 PM

"I also don't see a command that an individual is supposed to take that action as part of their religious faith in Christianity."

#143 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2012-02-16 02:39 PM

"Can you tell the difference between humans being violent to humans and God enacting due punishment on humans?"

Yes, Christians are commanded by god to be violent to the non believer.
What do you think
"Acts 3:23 .... shall be destroyed from among the people." means?

You act like you don't see it, buts right in front of your face. Your idea on "context" is just wishful thinking. The truth of your faith is in the scripture. And still you refuse to see it. You profess its truth while running away from its meaning. Your faith is even more false than the bible itself.

"No, they are simply more apt to admit when they are wrong and learn from their errors. This is a one of the main factors that separates highly intelligent people from non-intelligent people."

I guess that I didn't make it explicit in 154, but that's part of what I meant. The errors that every day people make are easily corrected on discovery, but it's the ones that remain, the ones that require above average intellect for its flaws to be demonstrated, that stay the longest.

Yeah, all 100+ of them. Espescailly the ones that no one could have controlled even if they wanted to, and the ones Jesus pointed out himself.
#155 | Posted by Corky

Learn to read for yourself. Every fucking one was taken out of context. Whatever verses Christian apologists liked, they applied it to Jesus.

They don't have to die, but they will most from natural means.

Either way, it is not like there is anything that will change the mind of you or Skizzy anyway.

Thanks for the laughs.

#147 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

Hah! what a cop out...we all die eventually. Right! So why bother putting spikes through anyones head?

Secondly, you seem unable to understand, again, specific context of time and events.

Really?

We are in a time of War right now so does this mean God approves of us killing the "enemies of God" in this way now (and chopping their heads off just to be sure) or was it only for that particular section of Space and Time? Has your God actually evolved over Time from Wrathful Vengeful Jealous God to a Loving and Forgiving God so that His Code of Conduct during War has changed and evolved over Time or is it just your interpretation of this God that has changed over Time?

the ones that require above average intellect for its flaws to be demonstrated, that stay the longest.
#157 | POSTED BY HAGBARD_CELINE

Which, IMO, points to the explanation as to why strict religious adherence is almost completely absent in the intellectual community. Some religious or spiritual belief is common, but the strict adherence to any religious doctrine or dogma does not exist within this group.

XP---what I am asking is why would a Timeless God act differently at different times. He would know we are looking at Him from the future as well as the past.

10 years you wasted on that website and didn't learn a thing.
#155 | Posted by Corky

I could never believe that so many people could be so stupid for so long until I studied the Bible for myself. Then I began to see why so many people are just as stupid about politics. I came to the conclusion that religion is to science what politics is to economics. Ignorance and delusion are the general rule in human society, not the exception.

-I came to the conclusion....

That the American Dream is so far gone that I'll never vote again becuase that will help. That the Magic Market is Omniscient and Omnipresent. That von Misses is really God and Ayn Rand is Jesus Christ, no matter what the Rev Moon says. That the Big Bang never happened...... oh, yeah, and that that Jesus guy was fake, he never even lived.

You are batting 100 percent there, Goofy.

Jesus also called for helping the weakest amongst the flock, and said a rich man cannot get into Heaven easily, but obviously that was when he had made and drank too much wine.

The Conservatives

#7 | Posted by northguy3 at 2012-02-14 10:18 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Jesus is a fairy tale pal, I'm sorry to disappoint you. Well, that's not entirely true. The individual, Jesus, likely existed at some point in time but he and "god" about as real as Zeus and Posiden are.

It's evolution baby.

You are batting 100 percent there, Goofy.
#163 | Posted by Corky

You're a moron and you'll always be a moron. Arguing with morons is always futile.

That the American Dream is so far gone that I'll never vote again becuase that will help. That the Magic Market is Omniscient and Omnipresent. That von Misses is really God and Ayn Rand is Jesus Christ, no matter what the Rev Moon says. That the Big Bang never happened...... oh, yeah, and that that Jesus guy was fake, he never even lived.

You are batting 100 percent there, Goofy.

#163 | Posted by Corky at 2012-02-16 04:55 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

The American dream is based entirely on the consmption of as many resources as possible in the least amount of time. Endless "growth" is the mantra of the average American.

The dream isn't over, yet. It does, however, have a finite life. When the exact end of it is going to come and how it will happen is an entirely different and scary prospect.

You're a moron

#165 | POSTED BY RAY

That's Fringe Ray's retort when pushed on any of the subjects I mentioned, and more, where his is a far fringe position.

= The American dream is based entirely on the consmption of as many resources as possible in the least amount of time.

That is a popular highly cynical, and much deserved, view of what passes for dreams in a crony capitalist system led by hedge fund sociopaths and thieves, but the original American Dream of liberty and justice for all, fair-play in business and the workplace, a job, a home, a family, and freedom to worship the FSM if you want to may be drowning in the morass, but it isn't as dead as Ray likes to pretend it is to absolve himself of any responsibility to himself, his family or to others to not quit on it, but try to fix it.

There. My longest run-on sentence ever!

"The American dream is based entirely on the consmption of as many resources as possible in the least amount of time."

That's capitalism, America or elsewhere. That's why it's unsustainable.

That's why it's unsustainable.

Yup.

There is a saying I understand that is due to a Cree Indian saying that goes something like, "When all the fish are caught and all the rivers poisoned, Ray will find out he can't eat shiny rocks."

Ray will find out he can't eat shiny rocks."

FF!

It's evolution baby.

#164 | Posted by curisemssl

No it's not.

Damn, you people, for all your hatred of myths, generate some fine ones of your own. Not that you've got an irrational bone in your emaciated, Scrooge-like bodies. Ebeneezer Scrooge was, after all, a paradigm of mental health. I've had more than one of you Silas Marner types tell me that.

Atheists to the Right of me, atheists to the Left of me, volleyed and thundered.

You might not realize it yet (CORKY probably does) but Christianity is going to be a valuable defense against the sort of "conservative" money-worshipping BS some certain someones like to parade as the voice of reason on these boards.

Just like it was a valuable defesne against communism. Just ask the Poles.

"Ebeneezer Scrooge was, after all, a paradigm of mental health."

Actually he was a character in man's imagination and nothing more; Like Abraham, Moses or Jesus.

But I do find dropping by for one of your gems-of-stupidity more entertaining than sports talk radio.

I gave sources that talk about the rights available in America. You have provided nothing.
#147 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

No Exps, you are the one that has nothing. You said:

Face it, the moral foundations and rights of American are founded upon the concepts in Judeo-Christian concepts and principles.
#139 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

...and I knew that you had no idea what you were talking about, so I asked you to:

....name the first four Moral Foundations:
1.
2.
3.
4.
.....we'll get to the rest later....#144 | Posted by skizziks

.....and what was your response ??..zero, you have no idea what you are talking about. Yet, you keep babbling, gurgling, twisting, obfuscating and prevaricating.........

Acts 3:23 Translations
King James Version (KJV)
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

American King James Version (AKJV)
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

American Standard Version (ASV)
And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.

Basic English Translation (BBE)
And every soul who does not give attention to that prophet, will be cut off from among the people.

Webster's Revision
And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.

World English Bible
It will be, that every soul that will not listen to that prophet will be utterly destroyed from among the people.'

English Revised Version (ERV)
And it shall be, that every soul, which shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.
Barnes' Notes on Acts 3:23

For SOULFLY----Sounds like prophecy to me, not a command for Christians to be violent towards non-believers.

The Book of Acts is in large part the story of loving outreach towards non-believers. You appear not to know that, so I assume you've never read it.

But I do find dropping by for one of your gems-of-stupidity more entertaining than sports talk radio.

#173 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2012

Damn. Then I suppose I'll have to cast my pearls some other direction. Lest.....

Well, you know the rest.

#174 | POSTED BY SKIZZIKS

BOOOO-YEA! Took it right to his face and crapped down.......awwwww fuck it. Never mind.

Odd then that he author you so often post about, who sells books that feature arcane and highly dubious claims about authorship of some of those ancient texts, also believes that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical figure.

One might come to surmise that he is only half-right about everything.

also believes that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical figure.

A lot of people beleive that Jesus may have been an historical figure.

But, he never "rose" from the dead.

Sorry.

Abraham, Moses, Jesus and the rest of the fairy tale land of the Holy Roman Empire are merely political constructs. If you couldn't figure that out before the age of ten you won't do well in the future.

#178 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2012

You're hooked, ZAT. It's just a question of time before you're reeled in.

Sorry.

www.angelfire.com

#180 | Posted by donnerboy at

No, I'm sorry. Jefferson wrote a book that accorded with his personal biases. It, and he, never even pretended to scholarship.

So you can't use it as an authority for anything. But you knew that.

It's the RAY School of Thought. RAY thinks, and thinks, and thinks some more. Then he decides. And that's as far as RAY ever gets, because, after he's decided, he assumes everyone else, but most importantly anyone who knows more about it than he, are deluded.

Don't be a RAY, DONNERBOY. Future generations are going to see that gold-hoarding troll as being just as improbable as any other myth you could name.

Except that you and I will know RAY existed. There's something very funny to all of this.

I've never looked into what Jefferson did with the Book of Acts. I assume he applauded Christian philosophy while studiously expunging Christian testimony concerning recent events that created that philosophy.

I like Jefferson. I'm pretty sure at dinner together we'd both laugh at what a joke he'd made.

#175 | Posted by Zed at 2012-02-16 07:40 PM | Reply | Flag: Stupid and presumptuous

"The Book of Acts is in large part the story of loving outreach towards non-believers."

That's capitalism, America or elsewhere. That's why it's unsustainable.

#169 | Posted by nullifidian at 2012-02-16 07:04 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Well, you're right, it is. I, however, think it's the best until we can have a fully educated population, which isn't coming anytime soon. In fact, we're moving further and further away from that. See Jersey Shore.

I'm not willing to go the alternative system, being communism or some form of it, until the human psychy has evolved enough. Unfortunately, or very fortunately, that's not going to come for some time. It will require a "thinning of the herd", be that imposed on us by the planet's need to be in a balanced state, or man made, the attempted Holocaust.

So, until that time comes, I will work within the best system we currently have to further my ability to provide for me and my family in a sustainable way and helps those who need and DESERVE the help, so that they can do the same. The dems way is not that way. It's a perversion of the system, that infantilizes a great deal of the current benefactors, at the cost of others.

Damn, you people, for all your hatred of myths, generate some fine ones of your own. Not that you've got an irrational bone in your emaciated, Scrooge-like bodies. Ebeneezer Scrooge was, after all, a paradigm of mental health. I've had more than one of you Silas Marner types tell me that.

Atheists to the Right of me, atheists to the Left of me, volleyed and thundered.

You might not realize it yet (CORKY probably does) but Christianity is going to be a valuable defense against the sort of "conservative" money-worshipping BS some certain someones like to parade as the voice of reason on these boards.

Just like it was a valuable defesne against communism. Just ask the Poles.

#172 | Posted by Zed at 2012-02-16 07:21 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Evolution is a myth? I should really end this conversation right now, but I'll play along.

Christianity is a another system put in place to control individuals using fear. If people were educated properly, instead of indoctrinated by whatever government is currently ruling this country, or any other for that matter, we'd be in a much better position. People just don't want to look at the hard facts of life. Examples are over population, pollution, corruption and the finite life of the current monetary system, to name a few. They also don't want to look at the endless posibilities that the future holds.

It's much better to just push it under the rug. It's called homeostasis. People, compaines, countries and this planet want to stay in equalibrium. It's comfortable that way. We'll tell ourselves anything in order to keep it that way.

Christianity is just as corrupt as any other institution. Apparently, God needs money to spread the word. If god existed, which he doesn't, he sure as fuck wouldn't need cash. It's a nice thought that we'll go somewhere after death, but the only place were going in to feed the worms, just like every other living organism on this planet.

If you want to hold on to it, so that you don't feel so shitty about this life, continue to do so.

It's a good defense against genocide, but as a species, it only leads to ignorance.

'The dems way is not that way. It's a perversion of the system, that infantilizes a great deal of the current benefactors, at the cost of others."
#186 | Posted by curisemssl at 2012-02-16 08:59 PM | Reply | Flag: Retarded

"Evolution is a myth? I should really end this conversation right now, but I'll play along."
#187 | Posted by curisemssl at 2012-02-16 09:14 PM | Reply | Flag: But there's hope.

-But, he never "rose" from the dead.
Sorry.

So.... TJ was there? Was he hiding behind Peter or what?

"Miracles can't happen and anyone who says they can is not a honest reporter because miracles can't happen and anyone who says they can is not an honest reporter because miracles can't happen.... ad nauseum."

If it were an everyday event, no one would care about it at all.

btw, not that it matters, but did you know that one of the world's foremost authorities on such things as ancient fabrics and stitching says that the only other example of the stitching on the Shroud or Turin has only ever been found in one place and time in history?

1st century Jerusalem.

Some of my favorite Jesus hellfire quotes

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matt. 10:28; Luke 12:5)

21"Woe to you, Chorazin woe to you, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22But I tell you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you.
23And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24But I tell you that it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you." (Matt. 11:20-24; Luke 10:13-15)

49"So it will be at the close of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous,
50and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth." (Matt. 13:49-50)

27For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done. (Matt. 16:27)

-Apparently, God needs money to spread the word.

As in Jesus' day, our religious leaders have become some of the biggest and the most dangerous hypocrites in the country. And he castigated them fiercely for it in his time as we should in ours.

There are some churches who don't sell Jesus junk and don't have emotional alter calls or even pray much in public. Some even don't take any tax breaks or even give members receipts or condone taking individual breaks.

And they don't require your brain be left at door of the church when you go in. Our church is like that and the pastor is a natural linguist who is fluent and can diagram grammar in 2 dozen ancient and modern languages.

I've studied these ancient texts for over 30 years and have come to some different conclusions than some of my atheist friends because I see the threads all the way through the books and find the consistency of the prophecies about the Messiah culminating in Jesus in a way he had no control over, along with the latter actions of the disciples, at least plausible.

This was a talk given on the subject...

Read the book you fucking idiot!

Here's one for you RAY

Matthew

10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

What an asshole!

Took the words right out of my mouth....

What an asshole!

#193 | Posted by soulfly at 2012

It doesn't surprise me that RAY thinks there's, er, something BAD about separating the evil from the righteous. RAY sees no inherent distinction. Besides, such separation wouldn't be in his personal interests.

But you surprise me just a bit.

God, whom RAY just "knows" is a stellar constellation, judges. You can like it or not like it. From my point of view, it's like taking offense against gravity.

Christianity is a another system put in place to control individuals using fear.

#187 | Posted by curisemssl at 2012

I don't see fearful people at church. Perhaps they are out there somewhere and I just never encounter them.

More likely, like RAY, you mistake your inner musings for objective reality.