Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, January 30, 2012

Aryeh Spero: More than any other nation, the United States was founded on broad themes of morality rooted in a specific religious perspective. We call this the Judeo-Christian ethos, and within it resides a ringing endorsement of capitalism as a moral endeavor. The Bible's proclamation that "Six days shall ye work" is its recognition that on a day-to-day basis work is the engine that brings about man's inner state of personal responsibility. Work develops the qualities of accountability and urgency, including the need for comity with others as a means for the accomplishment of tasks. With work, he becomes imbued with the knowledge that he is to be productive and that his well-being is not an entitlement.

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Oh lord, won't you buy me as mercedes-benz?

I wonder if it never occurred to anyone that if God have written those words, he would have known a little more about future economics?

And Vermin is a retard.

.

"More than any other nation, the United States was founded on broad themes of morality rooted in a specific religious perspective."

When the first sentence is horse shit I don't bother to read the next sentence. Ever hear of the Church of England moron? The very country we gained independence from has an official state religion. Nuf said.

The WJS editorial page becomes a bigger joke every day.

When the first sentence is horse shit I don't bother to read the next sentence. #3 | Posted by danni

Good, because I was soooooo looking forward to your insightful, thoughtful, well reasoned response.

God knows you could use it.

God is a Capitalist

... not to mention a proponent of genocide and slave labor.

When the first sentence is horse shit I don't bother to read the next sentence. Ever hear of the Church of England moron? The very country we gained independence from has an official state religion. Nuf said.

#3 | Posted by danni at 2012-01-30 10:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

What the fuck does the Episcopal Church in England have to do with the guiding principles of the United States?

As for the first line being horseshit .....

"In the name of God, Amen."

First line of the Mayflower Compact.
-------
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

From the Declaration of Independence (emphasis added for the addled)

--------
"We, the People of the State of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty, and taking into our serious consideration the best means of establishing a good Constitution in this State for the sure foundation and more permanent security thereof, declare:"

Preamble to the Maryland Constitution (1867) often cited as an example for other states. Emphasis added for the addled.

We have no need of your antiquated superstitions, vermin.

Danni is just so full of hate that she can't stand to see anything accurately positive about Judeo-Christian values, nor Capitalism.

That's why she didn't even read the article, but had an automatic, hate-filled comment filled with ignorance.

It must be awful to go around all day full of anger and hate. No wonder you are stoned all the time.

I pity you.

We have no need of your antiquated superstitions, vermin.

#9 | Posted by Dr_Icepick at 2012-01-30 10:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

The author is discussing the role of Scripture in the forming of a national culture. Of course you didn't read the article. Like Danni, you are full of opinions founded upon ignorance.

But just for fun ......

The Christian Church is the largest religion in the world. Most of the rest of the world believes in some greater power.

What kind of fool sits around saying "everyone in the world is out of step with me?"

A fool like IcePrick.

It must be awful to go around all day full of anger and hate. No wonder you are stoned all the time.
I pity you.
#10 | Posted by vernon at 2012-01-30 10:53 AM | Reply | Flag: Christian (patent pending)

I pity you.

The pity of a sanctimonious idiot is rather hilarious. When you've earned a Christian's pious "pity," you know you're on the right track.

Your religion is intellectual vomit, vermin. While the world is increasingly content to dispose of it properly, there will always be a few flea-bitten dogs who feel the need to sniff and lick at it.

"That's why she didn't even read the article, but had an automatic, hate-filled comment filled with ignorance." No, I just don't bother to entertain nonsense which pretends that the founding fathers didn't want a clear seperation of church and state, especially when your first sentence was so obviously wrong.

And Vermin is a retard.

.

#2 | Posted by Dave at 2012-01-30 10:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

And once again, Dave shows off his profound debating skills. His ability to marshal facts and argument into a cogent thought. His profound ability to debate.

When Let-U-Spray sits on the toilet, this is what comes out:

----
Asshouse opts for pure stupidity.

.

#1 | Posted by Dave at 2012-01-30 07:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

----

Gomer Pyle - "Citizens array-est, citizens array-est!"

.

Posted by Dave at 2012-01-30 10:38 AM | Reply

-----

At least he admits that he, too, is a "sap".

.

Posted by Dave at 2012-01-30 08:50 AM | Reply

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At least yer honest.

.

Posted by Dave at 2012-01-29 11:24 AM | Reply

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Funny...that's a perfect description of you, Zitface.

.

Posted by Dave at 2012-01-28 04:30 PM | Reply

Vernon needs to brush up on Jesus. He distinctly advised followers there was no need to prepare for the future because the end was near and they will have riches in heaven.

It looks like Vernon and the WSJ are cherry picking the OT. That's one of the jokes about the Bible. It has two different gods with two entirely different personalities.

The author is discussing the role of Scripture in the forming of a national culture.

The author is, of course, a shit-for-brains historical revisionist who panders to religious fanatics.

The Christian Church is the largest religion in the world.

It is also a dying religion in much of the world. Your religion is a disease that thrives wherever poverty, despair, and ignorance abound. Like most religions, it offers an irrational source of hope for the miserable and incompetent. Remove misery and incompetence from the equation, and you'll find the need for religion dwindling as well. As standards of living and education levels have risen in the west, Christianity has lost influence and begun to disappear.

Most of the rest of the world believes in some greater power.

The idiotic notion of a flat earth was once quite popular as well.

So, who knew Vermin was Jewish?

The article author, Rabbi Spero, certainly is not presenting capitalism from a Christian frame, but rather from a very conservative Jewish frame.

But let's not bother Brother Verm with details like that.

"I just don't bother to entertain nonsense which pretends that the founding fathers didn't want a clear seperation of church and state,"

And if you had read the article you would have discovered that the author does not have anything to say about separation of church and state. He is only discussing the role of Scripture in support of Capitalism.

But you are so blinded by hatred and rage that you cannot see that.

BTW, if you had bothered to read the article before blathering, you would have seen that it is written by a Jew. Not by some Christian that you hate so much.

God is a Capitalist

... not to mention a proponent of genocide and slave labor.

#7 | Posted by Dr_Icepick at 2012-01-30 10:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

Interesting... according to your view in the ethics thread with comments from Walter-Sinnot Armstrong this is not an issue at all.

You seem to have agreed that it was justifiable and morally acceptable to take the life of one individual in order to better the lives of other individuals.

The article author, Rabbi Spero, certainly is not presenting capitalism from a Christian frame, but rather from a very conservative Jewish frame.

#18 | Posted by Corky at 2012-01-30 11:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

And where did I ever say otherwise?

Just like the author refers to a Judeo-Christian ethos, so did I affirm it.

Got a problem? Take it up with the rabbi.

Most of the rest of the world believes in some greater power.

The idiotic notion of a flat earth was once quite popular as well.

#17 | Posted by Dr_Icepick at 2012-01-30 11:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

IcePrick hopes that someday, thousands of year into the unknown future, somebody might agree with him. Maybe.

But until then, he is right and the entire universe is out of step with his tiny grasp on reality.

When Jews speak of the Bible, do they mean that to be synonymous with the Torah or do they mean it in the same way that Christians use the word?

"And if you had read the article you would have discovered that the author does not have anything to say about separation of church and state. He is only discussing the role of Scripture in support of Capitalism."

Yeah, I know the type of propaganda, I've read lots of it. It's based on a lie, that capitalism is under attack which it isn't, never has been.

Just one thing, Vern. God didn't write a word that you've sited.

Vernon needs to brush up on Jesus. He distinctly advised followers there was no need to prepare for the future because the end was near and they will have riches in heaven.

#16 | Posted by Ray at 2012-01-30 11:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

Ray, if you are going to cite Scripture then you ought first brush up on the Scriptural Jesus (and not some candy-assed version) who says no such thing.

You are full of opinions that are not based on knowledge.

Congrats, Ray. You are Danni.

(that has to hurt)

"(that has to hurt)"
Signed,Venon, The Christian.

Yeah, I know the type of propaganda, I've read lots of it. It's based on a lie, that capitalism is under attack which it isn't, never has been.

#24 | Posted by danni at 2012-01-30 12:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hmmmm . . . . .

Maybe you have reads lots of it, but I doubt it. You are the type that pretends to be well read. But it is only pretend. The only things you read are things you already agree with. You read to reinforce your hatred and bigotry.

"It's based on a lie, that capitalism is under attack...."

which is not what this article discusses (you would know this, had you actually read it). For the 47th time in one thread, Danni brags about not reading the article though she has plenty to say about it.

People like Vernon are why I no longer consider myself to be a Christian. I believe there was a man named Jesus Christ but I believe he would have completely rejected the philosophy that most of today's so called "Christians" profess.

"(that has to hurt)"
Signed,Venon, The Christian.

#27 | Posted by danni at 2012-01-30 12:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Your point?

Seriously? What is your point?

I think that you want to assign an attitude to me as a Christian. And then, when I don't achieve your false assignment, you want to scold me for it.

If I am wrong, then what is your fucking point?

And please, since you are so knowledgeable about the Christian faith, and how Christians should behave, please oh please include Scriptural references.

And BTW Danni, your #27 post shows that you have lost the original argument. You are trying to run off in another direction.

Loser! Loser!

By your actions you confirm that the original thread is correct.

God is a Capitalist.

Danni agrees with Vernon.

I suggest you do a little reading yourself, Vermin.

Particular the commentary at the end.

www.tentmaker.org

Ray, if you are going to cite Scripture then you ought first brush up on the Scriptural Jesus (and not some candy-assed version) who says no such thing.
You are full of opinions that are not based on knowledge.
Congrats, Ray. You are Danni.
(that has to hurt)
#26 | Posted by vernon

Duh. I spent ten years writing about the Bible. If I was home, I could easily cite scripture. In one of the most cited verses, a rich man asked Jesus what he must do to get to heaven. Jesus advised him to get rid of his wealth. Or there's the one where Jesus said a rich man has no more chance of getting to heaven than a camel getting through the eye of a needle. You sound like you never read the NT. Or if you did, you never undersood it.

God is a Capitalist.

Danni agrees with Vernon.

God is a figment of your imagination.

And vermin is a fucking idiot.

Glad to clarify that.

I suggest you do a little reading yourself, Vermin.

It's all lies for the dismally stupid.
Jesus never existed.

"Oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore the pledge, lifts up his eyes to the idols, commits abomination, lends at interest, and takes increase; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominable things; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon himself "(Ezekiel 18:12-13).

Even Ray should like this one.... it's an anti-Fed rant, but it makes the point about usary in the OT.

www.reformation.org

Vernon, are you one of those "Christians" who claim to love Jesus but who hates everything he stood for?

Cherry picking idiot. The bible is littered with verses speaking about how god rewards the wicked in this life, so that they may be punished in the next, while the righteous suffer in their earthly life before going to their heavenly reward. Money called "the root of all evil." The choice between god and mammon. All the verses about the importance of storing up treasures in heaven, not earth.

Between the proscribed genocide, instructions on care and feeding of slaves, occasional human sacrifice, and optional buying or stoning of slutty chicks, the bible has the occasional gem of philosophy. Somehow, those are always the verses christians miss.

I suggest you do a little reading yourself, Vermin.

It's all lies for the dismally stupid.
Jesus never existed.

#35 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2012-01-30 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Funny! It looks like you have to do a little reading. The very source you just linked to (Bart Ehrman) clearly attests to the fact that Jesus did live and that he did make some of the claims recorded in the scripture.

If you look into Ehrman you will also notice that his scholarly work and his popular work contradict one another, kind of like you.

I guess Bart and Zat are forgeries.

#38 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2012-01-30 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Please provide a verse that states that God himself rewards the wicked in this life so that they may be punished in the next...

I think I might be waiting a while.

Also note that while you were talking about missing things, you seemed to have missed the phrase "the love of" when you were talking about "money being called the root of all evil".

The love of money is the root of all evil.

Sad display Zeropointing.

www.reformation.org
#36 | Posted by Corky

Vernon owes us a mea culpa.

Matthew 6 - not about money specifically, but Jesus stating that those looking for reward from their fellow man will have received it, and will receive no reward in heaven.

Later in the same chapter, the verse about storing up treasures in heaven.

Then, there's pretty much the whole book of Ecclesiastes, talking about how the wicked often seem to live long lives, unpunished for their wickedness, and how works of good men all seem as vanity. It does not go on to conclude that this continues after death, but recognizes it as part of life.

True, on the love of, versus money itself.

My point stands, as does my utter hatred of anything approaching "prosperity theology," which much of the pro-capitalist religious right have a notable weakness for veering into. The only verse that should really apply to that is the one about a fool and their money being soon separated.

Final point? The original article is nothing but an example of cherry picking self-serving greed, picking lines of scripture like Satan tempting Jesus. Lol, if you believe that sort of thing. It attacks socialism like good christians couldn't use the government as merely another tool in the work of looking out for and loving their brother as Christ told them too. A one-dimensional work of crap.

-The love of money is the root of all evil.

One thing that never changed from the OT to the new covenant in the NT is that what God looks for from humankind in all these stories, actual or metaphorical, is a life of faith, not of perfection.

And if one is wealthy, one can depend on their money, not their faith, to get by each day ("Give us this day our daily bread"), hence the love of money, though not money itself, is the, "root of all evil".

- A one-dimensional work of crap.

Selah! (Think of it!)

And Amen.

#42 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2012-01-30 02:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

I agree with you on the prosperity theology. Life is not about "happiness" in the way we view it. Rather life is like ecclesiastes describes in regard to facing the difficult things of life (trial, poverty, wealth [can be dangerous], death etc) and still finding joy.

Ecclesiastes is all about life SEEMING unfair or SEEMING vain (don't forget that the word hebel [the word used for vanity or meaningless in Ecclesiastes - which also happens to be "Abel's" name] also means ephemeral, short lives, or insufficient.

The point of Ecclesiastes and this life is to be happy in the midst of your circumstances and look at life through the proper understanding with the proper priorities.

the Matthew 6 chapter is in regard to doing things for glory here (pleasing man and making a name for yourself) or doing things for the proper purpose and proper priorities which will render a reward as they were not done for a reward. It is about having the right attitude, motivations, intentions etc. Really it is about pride. Are you making it about you? If you are... that is your reward.

It is not quite what you were thinking it could be in regard to the rich being rewarded so that they will be punished later.

You can be rewarded here and rewarded later. It's all about the priorities, motivations, intentions etc.

The point of Ecclesiastes and this life is to be happy in the midst of your circumstances and look at life through the proper understanding with the proper priorities.

"Proper understanding with the proper priorities."
This is the language of subjugation.
You just don't realize it yet.
But it does prove the author's point.
Capitalism places wealth before human beings.

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2012-01-30 04:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

I am not vouching for the author. If you could follow a conversation (even a thought) you would be able to realize that.

But thanks for the input snoopy.

Capitalism places wealth before human beings.
#46 | Posted by snoofy

Nonsense. Capitalism evolved out a need to trade. It is impossible to produce wealth without savings and production. You're confusing capitalism with its abuses.

anyone who watches Creflo Dollar knows this to be true...

You're vouching for the Bible, though.
Of course, there's plenty of socialism in the Bible too.
Cherry picking Bible passages to support a political ideology... you have to ask yourself, who is that going to convince?
A true student of the Bible would know you're not telling the whole story.
But a weak-minded person who was raised to believe and whose "proper priority" in life is to be obedient, they might go along with it.

And now you know why the Catholic Church maintained a monopoly on literacy until technology made it so we could all pick up a book.

You're confusing capitalism with its abuses.

A distinction without a difference, Ray.

You're like Pinche, arguing that groundwater contamination from spent fracking fluid runoff is not a danger inherent to the fracking process.

A distinction without a difference, Ray.

Oh really. So when people exchange money for goods and services they are abusing each other? Is that your position?

#52 of course. goods and services should be provided by the State. That's the only way to ensure fairness in the process.
SNOOFY

And now you know why the Catholic Church maintained a monopoly on literacy until technology made it so we could all pick up a book.

#50 | Posted by snoofy

Guttenburg 1440. Isn't that about when the whole Bamboozle started to come unwound?

Ray,
Compare the capitalism that Upton Sinclair wrote about in The Jungle with the capitalism of today.
Which was the purer form, with less intrusive government regulation?
Which was more abusive?

So when people exchange money for goods and services they are abusing each other?

Unless both parties have perfect knowledge, which is impossible, the potential for abuse is always there.

Surely you can understand this.

If you look into Ehrman you will also notice that his scholarly work and his popular work contradict one another, kind of like you.

I guess Bart and Zat are forgeries.

#39 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2012-01-30 01:32 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

#38 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2012-01-30 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Please provide a verse that states that God himself rewards the wicked in this life so that they may be punished in the next...

I think I might be waiting a while.

#40 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

I have...

Please provide the quotes where you think Bart Ehrman contradicts himself.

I would be interested to see this. Bart is a born again who was unborn after following the Bible in a Bible University setting to it's illogical conclusions. Once he realized it was NOT inerrant as advertised he realized it could also not be the actual Word of a God.

Since he is not a True Believer anymore you guys do your best to trash him at any opportunity.

So, I think I might be waiting a while for any actual quotes too.

#53 close but as usual you're hearing what you want to hear, not what I'm saying.

The marketplace for goods and services should be regulated by the State.
That's the only way to ensure the market remains free.
But hey, it's only the basis of the Social Contract I'm talking about here.
I'm continuously amazed that my ideas lifted from 18th century France are too modern for you guys.

Oh and I guess that makes XPsRetardation a "forgery" too.

"Unless both parties have perfect knowledge, which is impossible, the potential for abuse is always there."

Which is why consumers cannot regulate the behavior of capitalists through their buying decisions. A capitalist firm is going to pollute the air and dump waste into drinking supplies unless restrained by someone. It would be foolish for a profit-maximizing entity to do otherwise.

Jesus was a socialist.

American Christianity has been infected and tainted with the heretical prosperity gospels exchanging "Love thy neighbour as thyself" with "I got mine, fuck you and praise Jebus!".

Along with trying to control women's bodies and turn gay folks into second class citizens, of course.

How could such a good idea go so wrong?

Be Well.

It would be foolish for a profit-maximizing entity to do otherwise.

Illegal, even.
An abrogation of fiduciary responsibility to shareholders.
Isn't that so, Ray?

Ray,Compare the capitalism that Upton Sinclair wrote about in The Jungle with the capitalism of today.
Which was the purer form, with less intrusive government regulation?
Which was more abusive?
#55 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I said at the beginning you are abusing capitalism for its abuses. You still are.

Perhaps you don't know that wealthy capitalists hate capitalism. As I recall in the case of Upton Sinclair, the meatpacking industry welcomed regulation because it creates cartels and takes uncertainty out of the market.

I notice a complete absence in your worldview of government abuses.

Which is why consumers cannot regulate the behavior of capitalists through their buying decisions.

Yeah sure. It's those greedy capitalists who take my money and spend it on themselves and their friends.

A capitalist firm is going to pollute the air and dump waste into drinking supplies unless restrained by someone. It would be foolish for a profit-maximizing entity to do otherwise.
#60 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Has Nulli not noticed that the object of pollution is public property?

The marketplace for goods and services should be regulated by the State.
That's the only way to ensure the market remains free.
#58 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Are you talking about the same State that can't even control its spending and borrowing? The same State that has been systematically destroying the dollar? The same State that's been starting wars all over the world? The same State that has the highest prison population in the world? How comforting.

I notice a complete absence in your worldview of government abuses.

You might be on to something there, Ray.
Pure-play government abuses seem to me like isolated (yet repeated) incidents.
Such as the guy who spent two years in solitary for DUI without a trial.
Or Waco.

But my opinion is that the massive, systemic government abuses happen when wealth has co-opted government.
Retroacative immunity for wiretapping telecoms, for example.
A government abuse? Sure. But why did it happen?
Did the government just wake up one day and decide to grant immunity?
Or did every member of Congress get a phone call reminding them elections are coming soon?

Systemic abuses happen because wealth is required to win an election.
The way we finance elections, it requires our hopeful representatives-to-be to suck on wealth's asshole.
Then, they go kiss babies with those same lips.
Some people like it this way.

Are you talking about the same State that can't even control its spending and borrowing?
No, I'm talking about the need for the scales to be accurate, whether this be ancient Mesopotamia or your local Winn-Dixie.

The same State that has been systematically destroying the dollar?
Welfare for the rich.

The same State that's been starting wars all over the world?
Welfare fore the rich.

The same State that has the highest prison population in the world?
Welfare for the rich.

How comforting.
It is if you're rich.

Follow the money, Ray.
It's not a new concept.

Follow the money, Ray.
It's not a new concept.
#68 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

I mentioned a few of them in #65. You see, when corporations pay to have laws and regulations written in their favor, that's not capitalism properly understood. That's an abuse.

No, I'm talking about the need for the scales to be accurate, whether this be ancient Mesopotamia or your local Winn-Dixie.

Here's an observation. Corporate power is derived from government power. If you think the two can be separated, you might as well be waiting for Jesus to return. As long as Americans think the coercive powers of the State are superior to free exchange in the market, the destruction of capitalism is assured. Don't count on an economic recovery, because there won't be one.

=As long as Americans think the coercive powers of the State are superior to free exchange in the market, the destruction of capitalism is assured.

As long as complete ideologues can only think in black or white, they'll always be disappointed with their grandiose predictions.

Good regulation isn't necessarily coercive in the real world of grey realities, nor is the "free" market some kind of naturally benevolent panacea.

Balance, Rayhopper. Balance.

Belief in UFO'S, belief in the Bible. What's the difference? They both demand that their adherents believe in fantastic things for which there is no evidence. Both are scams lapped up by the gullible.

The UFO types have a radio program that runs during the night where you can hear their self-styled leaders talking about aliens and abductions. The Bible types have Sunday morning, no end of holy-roller radio and 7 or 8 TV channels where their self-styled leaders are usually asking for money.

Emphasis added for the addle-brained Vernon who obviously believes in the Bible.

Why would the founders go to before judeo christian times to find a template for society?

As long as Americans think the coercive powers of the State are superior to free exchange in the market, the destruction of capitalism is assured.

If you're such a believer in markets, do you believe too that markets can behave irrationally?
Are you prepared to go without food, water, electricity, and health care during these periods of irrationality?
How long an irrational market can you withstand?

Remember the movie Total Recall, and when Cohaggen cut off the air to the Mars colony?
Were you happy to see the coercive powers of the state play second fiddle to a free exchange in the market?
All the Martians had to go was give up Quaid to get their oxygen turned on again.
Apparently that's not coercion by your book, which is hilarious.

Finally, you yourself acknowledge that the coercive powers of the State are superior to free exchange in the market.
"Corporate power is derived from government power." Your words.
I agree, by the way. I also know government doesn't have to cede naerly as much corporate power as ours does.
North Korea does just fine under a feudal economy.
And by "just fine," I mean their pre-capitalist economy accrued enough wealth to create nukes.
Nor are they sixteen trillion dolalrs in debt.
Not that I'd want to live there.

NO, but maybe God wants productive slaves to enrich himself. If that's true then he must be a Rethuglican.

If history teaches us anything, it's anybody who tells you what G-d wants cannot be trusted.
The technical term is "confirmation bias."
Peopel putting their own ideas into G-d's mouth.
The other technical term is "appeal to authority."

This has been an appeal to common sense and logic, from your friend Snoofy.

In one of the most cited verses, a rich man asked Jesus what he must do to get to heaven. Jesus advised him to get rid of his wealth. Or there's the one where Jesus said a rich man has no more chance of getting to heaven than a camel getting through the eye of a needle. You sound like you never read the NT. Or if you did, you never undersood it.

#33 | Posted by Ray at 2012-01-30 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Mark: 10:21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

22 At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Jesus said this because he knew the man was unwilling to give up his wealth. He put his wealth first. God says he must be first. "Thou shalt have no other God's before me." For the man in the story, his wealth was his first God.

Mark 10: 24 But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

"....Jesus said a rich man has no more chance..." This is not what he said. This is the fault of rich people, who make money their first God. I know plenty of very wealthy Christians who regard their wealth as a responsibility to manage, not their source of safety and security.

Geez, Ray, you sound like you never read the NT. Or if you did, you never understood it.

God is a figment of your imagination.

#34 | Posted by Dr_Icepick at 2012-01-30 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

OK, IcePrick. You keep screeching this. You keep sqwaking about science.

So prove it.

Prove scientifically that there is no God.

I believe in science. If you can do so, I will recant my faith.

Jesus never existed.

#35 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2012-01-30 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

See above

Jesus never existed.
#35 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2012-01-30 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

The caretaker here would disagree with that statement.

"Prove scientifically that there is no God.

I believe in science. If you can do so, I will recant my faith."

Stupidly posted by vermin at 2012-01-31 12:46 AM | Reply

Didn't do well in 4th grade logic, did you shit-for-brains?

"I believe in science."
LOL~
It's not a belief system, moron.

Prove there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster.
There exists exactly the same amount of evidence for your bullshit imaginary friends as there does for the FSM, Thor, Kukulkhan or Horus.

Zero.

Christ was a Marxist before Marxism ever existed. In fact, Marx might have succeeded had he been willing to share the stage with another god.

Religion, whether Marxism or Christianity, is based on faith and fear. And while there have been cases where one is both of a faith and enlightened enough to accept or empathize with other viewpoints, Enlightenment has long been the enemy of those movements. Why do you think evangelicals disregard the notion that the biblical flood was not based on an actual world-covering flood? Because admitting it would mean admitting a fatal flaw in a philosophy that defines who they are. Just like you will not likely find a Marxist that will admit that labor is equal to both land and capital as factors of production.

Geez, Ray, you sound like you never read the NT. Or if you did, you never understood it.
#76 | Posted by vernon

That's a fucked up interpretation of scripture. The strongest proof of Jesus' hostility towards wealth was when he chased the moneychangers out of the temple.

The Bible - which Vermin loves to cite but about which he's blissfully ignorant - comes down hard on those who loan out money and charge interest.

Interest is the difference in the present value of money versus the future value of money and is dependent on the time preferences of the actors in the transaction (one prefers to have the money now, the other in the future).

Unfortunately, the bible is as economically illiterate as drudgies.

As long as complete ideologues can only think in black or white, they'll always be disappointed with their grandiose predictions.
#70 | Posted by Corky

If you're such a believer in markets, do you believe too that markets can behave irrationally?
#73 | Posted by snoofy

It is not an ideological belief. There are natural laws of economics independent of beliefs like there are natural laws of physics. Practically everything government does is contrary to those natural laws. That's why this depression is so predictable.

Finally, you yourself acknowledge that the coercive powers of the State are superior to free exchange in the market.

You read wrong. The history of govenment is a history of violence and destruction. That's where the irrationality lies.

=It is not an ideological belief. There are natural laws of economics independent of

The self-retort lives on.

If you're such a believer in markets, do you believe too that markets can behave irrationally?
#73 | Posted by snoofy

Only in so much as the individual actors within the market behave irrationally.

If the market actors are you and corky... Very irrational.

The self-retort lives on.
#86 | Posted by Corky

Keep smoking that hopium and trust in Obama. LOL!

For Corky or any other of you liberal experts on economics, a simple Law of Economics: it is impossible to consume more than one produces.

It also follows that if a society consumes more than it produces, it is consuming its wealth and impoverishing itself.

That, my dear liberals, is where the US and Europe are today.

I remember being taught that the US was founded on the Protestant work ethic. I was also taught that work should entitle you sustenance and not profit.

Now a rabbi wants me to believe that our country was founded on judeo-christian beliefs that claiming profit is being pious.

Those who worship false "profits" are themselves heretics.

Ray you are wrong. We are in our economic condition due to the hoarding of dollars by the 1%. Once you remove a dollar from circulation that dollar creates no value which suppresses economic activity. Put that dollar back into circulation and it will travel from hand to hand creating value.

If the wealthy were hoarding tin cans or old newspapers we would rightly consider these people nuts. But since it is a little green piece of paper we hold them up as icons to strive for.

It is time to penalize hoarding.

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2012-01-30 05:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Snoopy, if you could read you would realize that I am not using the Bible to defend capitalism. Key word being "if".

#57 | Posted by donnerboy at 2012-01-30 05:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dr. Daniel B. Wallace discussing his debates with Ehrman and other things (MP3)

The Greer-Heard forum debate between Daniel B. Wallace and Bart Ehrman (a book)

SMU Debate between Wallace and Ehrman (DVD)

Upcoming debate between Wallace and Ehrman Tomorrow

Make sure to pay attention to the fact that Ehrman asked Wallace not to point out the inconsistencies and contradiction between his professional (scholarly) work and his popular work.

Wallace pointed these things out in one of their debates and then Ehrman asked him not to do it in the following debates. Why is that?

Ray you are wrong. We are in our economic condition due to the hoarding of dollars by the 1%. Once you remove a dollar from circulation that dollar creates no value which suppresses economic activity. Put that dollar back into circulation and it will travel from hand to hand creating value.

If the wealthy were hoarding tin cans or old newspapers we would rightly consider these people nuts. But since it is a little green piece of paper we hold them up as icons to strive for.

It is time to penalize hoarding.
#91 | Posted by Prolix247

Mattresses went out of style a long time ago. People store their wealth by buying bonds, stocks, bank deposits, etc. That money stays in circulation to used by the recipients.

No doubt you learned economics from the quacks whose theories are driving the economy into the ground. Wealth is accumulated by production, not consumption. You can't consume your way to prosperity. A society has to produce an excess of what it consumes. Government policies discourage production and encourage consumption. That's why America is getting poorer.

"More than any other nation, the United States was founded on broad themes of morality rooted in a specific religious perspective. We call this the Judeo-Christian ethos, and within it resides a ringing endorsement of capitalism as a moral endeavor."

Other than the fact that the Founding Fathers, the Constitution of the United States, and the Bill of Rights say no such thing, this is correct.
But hey! Lying outrageously is the new "black."

Ray a stock or bond is issued against debt and nothing is produced in that transaction, it is the vehicle in which dollars are allowed to accumulate to those with the most hoarded dollars.

Its like gold. You buy it through a transaction where you receive a dollars worth of gold through a debit of a dollar. Now you own 1 dollar of gold which is the product of debt. You own that loss until you sell your gold. It is at that time a value is assigned to your gold. It may be more than 1 dollar or it may be less than 1 dollar to be determined by the market.

This is all done with debt not credit. This is why we are where we are.

Ray a stock or bond is issued against debt and nothing is produced in that transaction

Posted by Prolix247 at 2012-01-31 02:02 PM | Reply

That's because that is only 1/2 of the transaction.

It is time to penalize hoarding.
#91 | Posted by Prolix247

Hoarding (which is not what stocks and bonds are by definition) would be burying jars of dollars in the back yard. There is nothing wrong with this as it increases the purchasing power of each dollar left in the economy.

Of course, large scale hoarding can not happen in the US as it is not a store of wealth because of the constant expanding of the money supply devalues every other dollar.

Spero: God Is a Capitalist

......this thread is too stupid to get involved in......

......I'll be over on the Kim Kardashian Bikini Malfunction thread with the other heavy thinkers.....

Ray a stock or bond is issued against debt and nothing is produced in that transaction, it is the vehicle in which dollars are allowed to accumulate to those with the most hoarded dollars.

Your reasoning is a little fuzzy to me. The debt is then spent by the borrower. That's the purpose of stocks and bonds. Money is taken out of circulation by paying off or defaulting on debts. There is no other way.

This is all done with debt not credit. This is why we are where we are.
#96 | Posted by Prolix247

Try to imagine a situation when the accumulated debt is beyond any chance of paying on the principle. At that point, the interest compounds year after year after year until it is no longer possible to pay the interest. It's only a matter of time before the Feds default on the interest. That's where we are now.

Again, you learned your economics from the quack economists employed by government to justify reckless government spending. The idea that a society can consume its way to prosperity is insane. Money based on debt is a fraud destined to collapse.

"We are in our economic condition due to the hoarding of dollars by the 1%."

Technically, you could extend that argument and claim that all americans, who make up the top 1% globally, are hoarding the wealth of planet earth, which should be penalized as a means of putting it in the hands of our less fortunate brethren in the developing world.

Here's the obvious flaw to the logic, at least as it relates to a free society. They created those dollars. Society exchanged those dollars for a relatively rare good or service that they were singularly able to provide. So in some respects, it was the hoarding of that rare good or service, not the hoarding of dollars, that is at the root of the problem. Because without that good or service they would have never had the dollars in the first place. Conversely, not being able to provide a good or service is why the poor are what they are.

And while I am quite positive you would be willing to deny the wealth that which society has freely given, would you be willing to demand that society go without the goods or services, whose provision resulted in the rich becoming that way? If so, you will find yourself at odds with both society, the productive classes or both. The only way you could ever truly hop to achieve your goal would be the enslavement of the productive classes, something they would not likely take sitting down.

"Ray a stock or bond is issued against debt and nothing is produced in that transaction, it is the vehicle in which dollars are allowed to accumulate to those with the most hoarded dollars."

You need to take a corporate finance course. Bonds are instruments of debt, used for financing something. Stocks are shares of ownership. So, if you have a stock, then it technically means that you (collectively alongside all other stockholders) are obligated to pay whatever debt has been contracted to the bondholder.

"Now you own 1 dollar of gold which is the product of debt. You own that loss until you sell your gold. It is at that time a value is assigned to your gold. It may be more than 1 dollar or it may be less than 1 dollar to be determined by the market."

That is quite possibly the silliest argument I have ever heard. Instead of gold, let's use Canadian dollars. Let's say I buy $1 USD worth of Canadian dollars. Using your logic, I am now $1 USD in "debt". But you weren't exactly clear or your definitions of "debt" and "loss." Debt implies that I owe money to someone else. Loss implies that in the process of some financial exchange I have lost money. Clearly I do not owe money to anyone for the Canadian dollar I purchased, so we can rule that out. And given that loss in an accounting function, it would only be realized when and if I chose to convert my Canadian Money into some other currency. If I was seeking to make money off arbitrage via currency trading, then I might realize a small loss or gain, but that's the only time.

Bomber- nice spin. Can you name a single free market or society on the entire planet because I can't. In the case of stocks and bonds there was no creation other than a debt obligation.

Also, if you take look at that dollar it even states its a unit of debt as opposed to credit. Why is that? Its yours, it says 1 dollar on it, yet it is a vehicle of debt?

""Let me say it a different way. Were it not for these bad mortgages, this calamity never would have happened.""

And...it was Clinton who was responsible for the bad mortgages, right? He's the one who loosened the lending standards in 2004? He's the one who stepped in to keep states from enforcing their own lending standards in 2003? He's the one responsible for F/F taking every POS loan that came along?

Apologies. Wrong thread.

... just as His predecessors, 'The Gods' supported a Slave Economy.

The ruling class will always try to propagate religion - and the subjugated class will, to some extent, suck it up.

#24 | Posted by danni at 2012-01-30 12:12 PM | Reply | Flag: CLUELESS....

And if one is wealthy, one can depend on their money, not their faith, to get by each day ("Give us this day our daily bread"), hence the love of money, though not money itself, is the, "root of all evil".

#43 | Posted by Corky at 2012-01-30 02:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

And that's why you're a big supporter of Obama Care?

Seems someone forgot to tell this to Jesus.

God should have told his sons to go easy on those 'Capitalist Money Changers' and Dove salesmen in the temple, huh?

It seems that overturning the tables of those selling doves (just practicing some capitalism) and the money changers was not what god wanted his son to do according to Vermin.

...."that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"

...means that our creators, the aliens, never gave us the actual rights to be as intelligent as them,,,,,

When the first sentence is horse shit I don't bother to read the next sentence...

#3 | Posted by danni at 2012-01-30 10:22 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Exactly... If this doesn't smack of wholesale propaganda within
the first paragraph or two, nothing does...

Ah, the Rightwing and their perpetual love of Fantasy & Myth...

Myths like Trickle Down Economics works and makes the majority happy...

Myths like being white and bigoted is actually O.K. and heads the
country in the right direction...

Myths like Ronald Reagan was the greatest President ever...

Yep...keep drinking that Faux News colored Cool Aid...

Interest is the difference in the present value of money versus the future value of money and is dependent on the time preferences of the actors in the transaction (one prefers to have the money now, the other in the future).

Unfortunately, the bible is as economically illiterate as drudgies.

#84 | Posted by SHEEPLESHEPERD

aka vig

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