"...won't be eligible for any of the benefits that any other spouse would be able to get."

This is news? I though that was always what the issue was?

of course it always has been...but radical leftists will talk about 'civil rights' and 'true love' and 'fairness'.....

Which on is Jim, the drug dealer, the male prostitute or another one?

Society does not have an interest is giving gays marital economic benefits--because there is no benefit to society.

Traditional marriage provides those benefits because there is a benefit for society--due to the fact that most traditional marriages have children.

Gays by and large do not have children.

"Society does not have an interest is giving gays marital economic benefits..."

You mean your society doesn't. Others apparently do.

"Gays by and large do not have children.'

Neither do post-menopausal couples. Should we deny them the right to marry as well?

"because there is no benefit to society."

What a hateful statement.

And ignorant as well. Stronger relationships and more good marriages & families benefit society.

"giving gays marital economic benefits...'

No, that would be economic equality. You know, the same "benefits" you and I get to take for granted.

here is all you need to know about barney frank...and the radical leftists who suppport him because he got away with these comments on the issue...

He was charged in August 2007 with marijuana cultivation for allegedly growing more than five marijuana plants on his property, records from the York County, Maine, district attorney's office show.

Frank later told the Boston Globe that he was at Ready's house when Ready was arrested, but that he never saw the marijuana and has never smoked any. Frank has also said Ready has promised him never to repeat his mistake.

as to the MONEY....again...if the 40 something got them...would taxpayers be paying him for 30 or so years..IF barney were to croak next week, that is...

HE NEVER SAW the pot?

really????

You are saying somehow that the gay marriage issue hinges around pot?

Strange connection. Or is that deflection?

"ITS ALWAYS about the money !!!!!"

Not always, but in this case, that part of gay outrage is perfectly justified. Our society pockets a savings that accrues from discrimination. Gay people's spouses - even in those states where their marriage is legal - do not get the Social Security survivor's benefit, and in most cases, don't get anything from a spouse's pension. Gays who cannot get married and don't have kids are, in effect, subsidizing your rugrats - they pay a higher single tax rate and don't get deductions.

And Muffy, you're full of shit: there is every advantage to society in granting gays a right to marry. Stable homes, well-raised kids, and a lowering of STD transmission rates are a few of them. I would go so far as to say that the AIDS epidemic was largely the fault of a heterocentric society - in the '80s, gay life was still centered largely around bars that often operated under protection payments to local police forces, and which were the only social outlet many gays had. At that point in time, gays literally had very little choice but to be promiscuous - they didn't have healthy social outlets, they had a very hard time finding housing as couples - everything that promoted decency and good health was systematically denied them. The "one-night stand" lifestyle that developed - to say nothing of the drug and alcohol problems that were partly the result of society's contempt for gays - was a perfect breeding ground for disease. Which is what happened.

If you are so fucking threatened because two guys want to say "I do" just like you did, there is something wrong with your sense of self-identity or self-worth or something.

all you need to know about barney frank.

[quizzicaldawg]

marijuana

Babbler actually thinks marijuana should be illegal.

That's all you need to know about him.

Be Well.

The real reason for gay outrage is, of course, the fact that they don't have full and equal civil rights.

And also the fact that 'tards like Babbler and rest of the GOP are actively trying to make inequality the law of the land.

Hate of the other is the only real defining characteristic of the modern Republican these days.

A deeply unAmerican sentiment.

/They sure as fuck stopped being "conservative" a long time ago.

Be Well.

"the gay nazi machine"

Godwin is a genius.

Godwin is a genius.

And afkabl is a cumshot that should have landed in a kleenex.

Traditional marriage provides those benefits because there is a benefit for society -- due to the fact that most traditional marriages have children.

If marriage exists solely to benefit society through producing children, then there's no reason to allow women to marry who are too old to bear children. Would you support a ban on old marriage along with gay marriage?

#15 | POSTED BY DR_ICEPICK
"And afkabl is a cumshot that should have landed in a kleenex."

Who's to say that's not what happened?

"Society does not have an interest is giving gays marital economic benefits--because there is no benefit to society."

Gay people actually often do have children stupid so your hate argument fails just like you.

Do you know why women menstruate? It's god's monthly reminder that he wants them cooking a bun in that oven. After all, a woman only benefits society when she's pregnant.
~ The Right

"Society does not have an interest is giving gays marital economic benefits--because there is no benefit to society."

Wow, that's a load of shit.

A couple is a more stable economic unit than a single person.

Whether they have kids or not.

Quit looking for reason to try to justify your unjustifiable prejudice and bigotry.

Be Well.

Of course it's about money. Just about everything is. It's just a byproduct of being human and has to do with the innate weakness of man. Most individuals are self-absorbed no matter sexual preference, class status, ethnicity. etc. In fact lefties tend to be even more self-absorbed on the human scale---they would like everyone else to pay their way. And in fact, then they turn around and try to avoid paying as much taxes as they can (ala Timmy Gatenor and Tommy dashaway). It truely is a sad, sad world.

"And afkabl is a cumshot that should have landed in a kleenex."

Instead, it wound up in a turkey baster.

.

Babbler: "the gay nazi machine"

Danforth: Godwin is a genius.

Agreed.

That's an especially inapt analogy given that Hitler tossed Gays into the ovens right alongside Jews, Political Dissidents, Gypsies, Communists and *gasp* Socialists.

Extra stupid points to Babbler there.

Be Well.

"Society does not have an interest is giving gays marital economic benefits--because there is no benefit to society."

Wow, that's a load of shit.

A couple is a more stable economic unit than a single person.

Whether they have kids or not.

Quit looking for reason to try to justify your unjustifiable prejudice and bigotry.

Be Well.

#20 | Posted by dethspud at 2012-01-28 03:38 PM | Reply

Wow, Pud must have rolled off his bed on the left side this AM.

He must be swimming in a load of shiatt.

Matsop feels a sense of sorrow for Pud's defacatable situation.

Matsop hopes Pud has an indoor plumbing system and has knowledge of how to use his flush valve.

Of course, for all the shiatt Pud throws around Pud probably finds his way down the byways of life on methane gas alone

Pud honors Al Goreless.

If Pud exited door right once in awhile, he might smell a little better

//Exiting that honorable door right
//But always keeping an I on that unhinged left door.

Be Well.

#24 | POSTED BY MATSOP AT 2012-01-28 03:50 PM | REPLY | FLAG: No counter argument.

This is Spud's utter lack of surprise.

Be Well.

"In fact lefties tend to be even more self-absorbed on the human scale---they would like everyone else to pay their way.'

Don't look now, but gays are subsidizing YOU. One example is gay couples pay into SS at the same rate as you and your wife, but don't get spousal benefits at all.

"Of course it's about money"

No, it's really not.

But even if it were, it's a good enough reason. Marriage is a smorgasbord of financial advantages.

""I would go so far as to say that the AIDS epidemic was largely the fault of a heterocentric society - in the '80s, gay life was still centered largely around bars that often operated under protection payments to local police forces, and which were the only social outlet many gays had. At that point in time, gays literally had very little choice but to be promiscuous - they didn't have healthy social outlets, they had a very hard time finding housing as couples - everything that promoted decency and good health was systematically denied them. The "one-night stand" lifestyle that developed - to say nothing of the drug and alcohol problems that were partly the result of society's contempt for gays - was a perfect breeding ground for disease. Which is what happened""

You're right about your references whore. You've made light of one other thing, failure to assume responsibility for ones actions.

The reason that HIV/AIDS was and still is such a problem is because its in mens nature to have sex often. It isnt heterocentricity. The gay culture has divorced itself from the restraints of morality and has ended with a rash of consequences it doesnt have the courage to assume responsibility for.

The gay marriage issue isnt about money, or love for that matter. Its about changing the standards of society.

AmericanPLY:

I thought your response would be disgracefully ignorant, vilely homophobic and somewhat to the right of Rick Santorum, but I must say -

You've outdone yourself.

Its your culture, its your actions, its your consequences.

Own it.

The gay marriage issue isn't just about money, or love for that matter. Its also about changing the standards of society in order to form a more perfect union.

Agreed.

/And fixt, of course.
//You fergot that last part.
///No need to thank Spud.

AmericanPLY:
I thought your response would be disgracefully ignorant, vilely homophobic and somewhat to the right of Rick Santorum, but I must say -
You've outdone yourself.

Selectively parsed and edited he cleans up real nice but yeah his raw feed is whargaarbl on steroids.

His derp doesn't just go up to 11.

It starts there.

Be Well.

"Its your culture, its your actions, its your consequences.

Own it."

Why should anyone gay "own it?"

It's not like anyone can get you righties to own today's effects of thirty years of Reaganomics, offshoring and warmongering.

There is nothing more derpish than blaming HIV, substance abuse and emotional problems on the "heterocentric" focus of society. But thats to be expected from the culture of fail.

There is nothing more derpish than blaming HIV, substance abuse and emotional problems on the "heterocentric" focus of society. But thats to be expected from the culture of fail.

There are more new cases of AIDS among heterosexuals than homosexuals.

Substance use/abuse is prevalent in every corner of society.

Emotional problems in many cases stem from living in a society that has made gay folks feel like pariahs in their own land.

Look, we get it.

You hate gays.

You hate black people.

You hate women having autonomy over there own bodies.

You hate atheists.

You hate Muslims.

You hate change.

You hate science.

You hate government.

We get it, already.

You are a Republican.

Be Well.

There shoulda been a 'their' there.

Be Well.

It's not like anyone can get you righties to own today's effects of thirty years of Reaganomics, offshoring and warmongering.

#31 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore

That has absolutely nothing to do with the culpability of the gay community and the failure to manage its own problems that YOU blame the emulation of the traditional nuclear family on. Whats more, you know I'm right.

...and as for the brown lump, the statements were a rebuttal to Mary's assenine assertion that HIV, promiscuity, and alcohol abuse among homosexuals is the fault of societies "heterocentricity." Kindly keep your banter to a minimum so I dont wear down my down arrow key.

There shoulda been a 'their' there.

Be Well.

#34 | Posted by dethspud

None of that should have been "there" in the first place.

There shoulda been a 'their' there.
Be Well.
#34 | Posted by dethspud
None of that should have been "there" in the first place.

#36 | POSTED BY AMERICANPLY AT 2012-01-28 11:11 PM | REPLY | FLAG: Not entirely all there if ya know what Spud means and Spud thinks ya do.

Be Well.

"But thats to be expected from the culture of fail."

You people elected Mr. "Deficits Don't Matter" Reagan, then Mr. Gulf War Bush Daddy, then the epically warmongering, unfit-for-anything-but-brush-
clearing Bush Baby -

Now you've got a hypocritical, belligerent, cretinous circle of jerks vying to topple the one halfway sane candidate you've got from the GOP nom -

And you refer to the left as a "Culture of Fail?"

Tch-tch, hmpf.

Eh, Spud -

AmericanPLY's all right.

All the time.

Eh, Spud -
AmericanPLY's all right.
All the time.

^__^

"Neither do post-menopausal couples. Should we deny them the right to marry as well?"

And couples who want to marry but do not want children! Fuck them and their attempts to undermine society. Folks, God said "Go forth and multiply" because the death rate was amazing back in the day. Not because it was the moral duty of every person to procreate, but because the fucking race would die out if more kids didn't happen. Look around you. Are we in danger of extinction? (Oh, that's right--the minorities are taking over. White people best throw away them condoms and start fuckin'.)

Another funny thing. Some of the most fervent conservatives I know argue for removing all marriage tax benefits. Gee, that would mess up this argument on both sides, eh?

But "it's about the money"? Yes, partly. If you live with someone in a committed relationship, you get "death benefits." In many states, the default on wills is everything goes to the surviving spouse. So yeah, gays in committed relationships want that. That's a terrible thing? And yes, those are rights (spousal benefits). But it's also about hospital rights, medical care rights, etc. It's about not being a second-class citizen based on who you fuck and commit to. If you "don't like" gays, just leave 'em alone. Their actions aren't hurting you in any way, shape, or form.

And Afk, Jesus Christ, man. Others have said it. But I can't help myself: you oughtta know better than to get Godwinized in the first line!

Agree with the libs on this one. What do I care what a gay couple wants to do? How does it affect my life? I have yet to hear one argument on how allowing gay marriage will affect me.

Of course I don't really care if it is not allowed either. However lacking a clear reason not to I can't say I would get emotional, or even bother, fighting for or against.

I suppose a true libertarian argument would assert that no married couple should get benefits from the government. No?

I have no dog in this fight except for the fact each state should handle this issue. I've got a problem with calling it a marriage since over history, marriage has been reserved for a man and a woman. If state voters want to give them all the benefits of marriage, call it a union, a cohabitation, mingling, alliance, confederation, federation, affiliation, connection, a happening, an aberrance, a pretzel, a "mano-a-mano".

#43

True but as it is they do not get benefits from the government. The get tax savings, but being allowed to keep a larger portion of your own money is not a benefit. If a thief broke in and took half my stuff instead of all of it should I consider it a benefit that he only took half?

In fact when it comes to government benefits married couples get jacked it is harder to get almost any handout as a married couple than it would be for an individual.

If you are poor it seems like about a split difference between being married and single in terms of "benefits". If you are rich then being married defiantly pays.

The technical libertarian position is that the government should not be in the marriage business period. If they insist on sticking their nose in they should stick to civil contracts (civil unions) and steer clear of people’s religious choice to marriage.

"I have no dog in this fight except for the fact each state should handle this issue."

The last time we had that, interracial couples were legally married in some states, and not in others. It was possible for a simple trip home for Thanksgiving to turn into a legal nightmare if one partner became hospitalized; the other partner might or might not be empowered to make care decisions, depending on what state the situation occurred in.

And again, straight people's rights are recognized at the Federal level. If this nation is ever to be the bastion of equality we say it is, this inequality has to be addressed. No other group of individuals in this nation is explicitly discriminated against under this nation's laws. Just gays.

It's an embarrassment. Hell, Uruguay recognizes gay rights, along with nearly every other major nation that is not Islamic, Communist or a remnant of the Soviet Union. That this country allows fundies and GOP politicians to dictate discrimination against any group of people in this country is more than a pity, it's a fucking sin.

#46 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore
So what you waiting for, move to Urugay.

Whore realizes she has more security and chance for happiness here than anywhere else in the world. So do most of the other gays. The problem is, you can't convince them of it. This is the person, after all, that blames societies emulation of the mother-father family unit as the cause of all of gay cultures problems.

"So what you waiting for, move to Urugay."

That's your answer to a situation that is bringing the United States of America the derision of other civilized nations - a derp-laden, second-rate wisecrack?

I dont see any other nations making us the butt of their jokes whore.

47--What is it, the 80s? America: Love it or leave it! That's a totally un-American response you offered there. What, we can't love something and still point out flaws and want to fix them? Ignorance is cheap, Patron. Invest in the future.

And Ply, it's not only gay people who think that gay marriage should be the law of the land. You might also be surprised that it's not only black people who are troubled by racism directed at black people.

50--You don't get out much.

And exactly how is that relevant?

No other group of individuals in this nation is explicitly discriminated against under this nation's laws. Just gays.

#46 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore at 2012-01-29 10:07 AM | Reply

Methinks you would get more support on a federal level if the gay industry didn't push their cohabitation as a "marriage" (which it isn't)----this is the area that frosts me. I wouldn't have a problem with federal approval if they didn't push an agenda that makes it appear as the norm for the land.

And Ply, it's not only gay people who think that gay marriage should be the law of the land. You might also be surprised that it's not only black people who are troubled by racism directed at black people.

#51 | Posted by pragmatist at 2012-01-29 10:36 AM | Reply |

Yeah, but those same black folks have a real problem with gay marriage.

"I have no dog in this fight except for the fact each state should handle this issue."

"State's right's" to the right has long been a less-than-subtle dog whistle that translates out to "Waaaaah, I want the right to discriminate and I hate federal laws that won't let me".

Seriously, in US politics "States Rights" = "Bigot & Moran" 9 times outta 10.

Be Well.

/Back biatches,
//Seriously need fucking coffee now.

Seriously, in US politics "States Rights" = "Bigot & Moran" 9 times outta 10.

#55 | POSTED BY DETHSPUD AT 2012-01-29 10:41 AM

How the fuck would you know?

""47--What is it, the 80s? America: Love it or leave it! That's a totally un-American response you offered there. What, we can't love something and still point out flaws and want to fix them? Ignorance is cheap, Patron. Invest in the future. ""

UnAmerican is wanting to change some of the basic values of America in the first place. It hasnt ever been American to lay down and accept revision, especially in regard to our basic institutions like marriage. Its mind blowing how a simple think like the marriage of a man and a woman can so easily become a debate matter. Hence, the confusion and angst the left brings.

can't love something and still point out flaws and want to fix them?
#51 | Posted by pragmatist
Where is the flaw that needs fixing? It's yours and whores belief that is flawed. Take the whore to Uragay with you.

And Ply, it's not only gay people who think that gay marriage should be the law of the land. You might also be surprised that it's not only black people who are troubled by racism directed at black people.

#51 | Posted by pragmatist

The struggles of the black man are not argueing points for gay "rights". If anything, bringing up the struggle for racial equality is a clear representation that the gay rights movement has no moral or historical base and has to hijack one from seomewhere else.

If anything, bringing up the struggle for racial equality is a clear representation that the gay rights movement has no moral or historical base and has to hijack one from seomewhere else.

#59 | Posted by americanPLY at 2012-01-29 10:52 AM | Reply

Even the blacks won't stay on that part of the left's plantation. They pretty much "get it" and consider it an affront to the dignity of their struggle and movement. Maybe, with time, they'll understand the other more subtle forms of racism within the left's subjugation and throw their chains off and move off that plantation shouting "free at last".

54--Not the point. I was pointing out that you don't have to be a member of an oppressed or stereotyped group to want the oppression or stereotyping to stop. And your response puts all blacks in the same group opposed to gay marriage.

57--Nonsense. America is about evolution of rights. Always has been. To say that we can't even debate something is anti-American in the highest order. I'm not saying it's American to accept it; I'm saying it's un-American to insist that something who want something different should shut up and go where that something different already exists.

58--See the comment directly above. I'm not saying she's right about wanting gay marriage and you're wrong about not wanting gay marriage. I'm saying that your "love it or leave it" response is un-American bullshit. This country was built on dissent.

59--I did not say the two were the same; I did not and would not conflate them. Read again the post you just quoted. Or look at my first response in this very post, since you apparently didn't get it.

"something who want"="someone who wants"

It's an embarrassment. Hell, Uruguay recognizes gay rights, along with nearly every other major nation that is not Islamic, Communist or a remnant of the Soviet Union. That this country allows fundies and GOP politicians to dictate discrimination against any group of people in this country is more than a pity, it's a fucking sin.

#46 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore
Using Uragay is flawed. Gay marriage in Uragay is still illegal. Due to the catholic church. You can have civil unions only after registering with the government and staying together for five years. Sounds so much better than the US? hurry and catch your plane take prag with you.Register with their government( Hum ), let me know how that works for you.For everyone who is so quick to point out how great other countries are, why the hell would you want to stay here?

I'm saying that your "love it or leave it" response is un-American bullshit. This country was built on dissent.
So in your America you can say what you want and shove gay rights down my throat, but my comments are un-American. That's how the liberal mind works.

The struggles of the black man are not argueing points for gay "rights". If anything, bringing up the struggle for racial equality is a clear representation that the gay rights movement has no moral or historical base and has to hijack one from seomewhere else.

Gays are now facing the same struggle for equality under the law that blacks and women have already won (largely) after years of fighting.

As much as the right like to comfort themselves with the lie that gays' seeking civil rights, seeking to realize the American ideal of "all men are created equal", are seeking some kind of "special rights" the reality is that are only deluding themselves.

The rest of us can see you very clearly for who you are even if you can't or won't admit it to yourself.

So there's that.

Be Well.

/Mmmm, TimHo's Double Double in an new Extra Large sized cup makes Spud a far more civilized being.

How the fuck would you know?

Cos Spud pays attention.

Better question.

Why don't you?

Be Well.

#65 | Posted by dethspud
The last I checked Gays can vote, go to any drinking fountain, sit in the same restaurant as any one else. Too equate Gay parades where they dress as fools to civil rights marches is a joke.The problem is the word Marriage. And to insist that because some one is biologically flawed can be be married for the same reasons as normal people is sick. Civil unions if the states want to allow it are the way.

"Methinks you would get more support on a federal level if the gay industry didn't push their cohabitation as a "marriage" (which it isn't)----this is the area that frosts me. I wouldn't have a problem with federal approval if they didn't push an agenda that makes it appear as the norm for the land."

Lissen up.

Marriage is a Man. Made. Convention. It is a construct, something people invented for various reasons that made sense at the time. It is not a law of Nature, or physics, or the universe. I know many of you cling to its 1955 definition as The Way Things 'Spozed To Be, but there is no more actual reason in that stance than there is believing in Santa Claus after the age of five.

Conventions and constructs can, and often should, change. I personally remember when apartheid was not only a societal construct in this nation, it was the law of many states. I also remember clergy using their pulpits to assure their congregants that grounds for segregation were to be found in their Bibles, and that separation of the races was what God would want, if only He would appear and give it to his flock straight from the shoulder.

That was bullshit then. This is bullshit now. And - unlike many posters here - you are far too intelligent to go on believing in bullshit.

This repulsive POS should be in prison, were there any justice in this country. But when repulsive POS write the laws, then it's little wonder.

Well I guess I believe in Santa Clause.And I believe in laws of nature, and gay's go against the laws of nature.

#70 | Posted by patron at 2012-01-29 12:32 PM | Reply | Flag: The six thousand years since men rode dinosaurs have taught him nothing.

What is it that's wrong with my nature comment, you brought it up?This is what I love about Liberals the truth hurts and so you try and lash out at someones religious beliefs.

#72 | Posted by patron at 2012-01-29 12:47 PM | Reply | Flag: Thinks I give a flying fuck about his imaginary friend.

"So in your America you can say what you want and shove gay rights down my throat, but my comments are un-American. That's how the liberal mind works."

You're not paying attention. I'm not trying to shove gay rights down anyone's throat. You are telling someone to leave because you don't agree with their beliefs and desires. That's fucked up. I've been VERY clear about this, and you still don't get it. Or rather, I think you refuse to. If you don't get it, then you suffer a lack of reading comprehension skills. If you refuse to, you're stubborn and asserting something that is, at its core, un-American.

You can be against gay rights (as you're calling them) all you want, and I can be for them. Neither of us is in the right to tell the other to go away. It's just that simple. You are asserting otherwise, and you are assuming I'm shoving something down your throat. Not at all true. While I think that gays should be able to marry, I'm not forcing you; I'm all for using the legal system to achieve this end. If it succeeds, and you don't like it, you can act to overturn it using the legal system. As one of my friends (not gay) has said, the war is over; the battles remain to be won. I expect to see gay marriage in this country in the next ten years, whether we like it or not. Society changes. We used to hold all kinds of things to be unnatural. Society changes.

Do try to read more carefully. You only look foolish when you assert things contrary to what a poster has actually written.

57--Nonsense. America is about evolution of rights. Always has been.

#61 | Posted by pragmatist at 2012-01-29

And pray tell me, prag; when we run out of rights to adjudicate, what then are the genetic activists going to do with their time? What off the wall mischief then do they create? How about rights of the pedophile----let's try that one on for size. Oh, no, prag will say; that'll never happen. All you have to do is go back about 40 years and people would be saying the same thing about the mischief the left is involved today.

Matsop:

There is a huge difference between pedophilia and same-sex relationships between consenting adults, and you know it. Children cannot consider, contemplate and weigh the ramifications of sex, and that is why society has a vested interest in protecting them from it before they're ready.

Please find another straw man. Oh - and not bestiality, either. Animals are likewise unable to give informed consent, which is why we protect them, too.

#74 | Posted by pragmatist
First off she brought up how great Uragay is, so my response is then move there. You continue with the un-American thing? Why because I express my opinion on her wanting us to be like Uragay.Your the one who don't get it. In America I also can say what I want even if you don't like it . And what I'll say right now is your an ass.

75--I'm not going to play straw man with you. No reasonable advocate of gay marriage is talking about any of that, nor is it even a logical extension of the issue. Gay marriage is about consenting adults in a committed relationship. That you find homosexual sex disgusting (or whatever you find it) does not mean that the act, or the people involved in it, is akin to something else you find disgusting. (As for pedophiles, I recommend castration and removal of hands, assuming they are men.) If this is where you take the argument, I'm not interested. I generally hold you to be more reasonable than post 75 indicates.

#72 | Posted by patron at 2012-01-29 12:47 PM | Reply | Flag: Thinks I give a flying fuck about his imaginary friend.

#73 | Posted by MaryTylerWhor
Unable to answer the nature question.

"Why because I express my opinion on her wanting us to be like Uragay."

You did not express an opinion on us wanting to be like Uruguay (which is not what she said). You told her to move there if she likes that aspect of their society. That's immature.

"Your the one who don't get it."

I'm the one who can write English sentences. And read them, too. You continue to show you don't understand my point or you can't separate it from your strong opinions on this matter. To wit:

"In America I also can say what I want even if you don't like it . And what I'll say right now is your an ass."

I support your right to say exactly that. I'm pretty sure I was clear about that issue. Now are you man enough (citizen enough) to say that Mary and I have a right to our beliefs and statements as well? Or is it only you who has the right to call others wrong?

The real reason for gay outrage is they know they are not normal. They suffer a tragic compulsion. They also know it is fruitless to ask everyone to adjust to them and cater to their every yearning to remake society.

"they know they are not normal."

So do folks with green eyes, and left-handers.

And Catholics, as long as you're keeping a list.

The real reason for gay outrage is they know they are not normal.

There are more women than men on this planet, atm.

Therefore it is more normal" to be a woman than a guy.

So what does it feel like to be abnormal, Diablo?

Are you outraged?

Imagine if you were also a left handed Ginger with green eyes.

*Brrrr*

the nature question.

Homosexuality is found throughout nature.

It is a biological mechanism for avoiding over-population.

Belief in an Invisible Sky wizard who you think is telling you it's okay to hate on gays?

Now THAT'S unnatural.

Not to mention immoral, stupid and unAmerican.

Be Well.

"Therefore it is more normal" to be a woman than a guy."

They seem very normal to me!

"Belief in an Invisible Sky wizard who you think is telling you it's okay to hate on gays?"

Actually, my God does not teach such things. You are confusing Him with His enemy. So since when does disagreeing with homosexuality demonstrate "hate?"

The real reason for gay outrage is they know they are not normal. They suffer a tragic compulsion.

Hmmmmm so an unnatural compulsion. Interesting.

They also know it is fruitless to ask everyone to adjust to them and cater to their every yearning to remake society.

This is just absurd, but not surprising given the source.

"Unable to answer the nature question."

Okay, then, let's answer it.

You yourself brought up the question of religious beliefs, which is what you're using to justify your "nature" comments. Homosexuality exists in nature, in both humans and other species.

If you are using your religious definition of "nature" to discriminate against gays, you are asking millions of Americans to accept your religion (which is only one of many) as the basis of laws governing them, something the men who founded this nation fought against tooth and toenail. This is not about what you believe, it's about giving everyone the right to self-determination.

Which, of course, is something the religious right cannot abide.

Actually, my God does not teach such things. You are confusing Him with His enemy.

Great, so you support gay rights?

But this is a little confusing though since there are all sorts of supposedly scripture based rationals that Christians have claimed to justify their position on the gay marriage issue.

Are we to accept them as wrong and you as right?

JPW obviously does not think the gay marriage movement is a remaking of society. Absurd, but not surprising considering the source.

Well I guess I believe in Santa Clause.And I believe in laws of nature, and gay's go against the laws of nature.

LOL what a fucking simpleton.

I'm willing to bet Patron is well unaware of the large amount of grey in his "laws of natural".

"So since when does disagreeing with homosexuality demonstrate 'hate?'"

Since the creation of a network of laws, societal constructs and tacit customs that make it costlier, less free and more physically dangerous for gays to exist on this Earth.

JPW obviously does not think the gay marriage movement is a remaking of society.

Because it's not.

Extending the equality under our law laid out by the Constitution (you know, that document Republicans constantly claim to love so much) isn't remaking our society. It's doing what's expected of us by the system that is supposedly loved by so many as superior.

BTW, I don't think they should be able to get married in a church if the church doesn't want it, but the means to provide equal legal rights to gay couples should exist.

89--I can't speak for JPW, but you know, we remake society all the time. It's not a revolution, this gay marriage thing--or if it is, it's a reaaallllly long one.

Absurd, but not surprising considering the source.

I see you dodged my questions though.

It's telling that you evidently will hold two completely opposing views in order to justify you being right, both in the argument and morally.

Btw, Afk has to be very excited (word chosen deliberately) to have posted a thread that is this active.

I also cannot see why righties want to complain so much about remaking the institution of marriage.

Newt Gingrich remakes it every time he gets tired of a wife.

Actually, my God does not teach such things. You are confusing Him with His enemy.

Ever thought that you might be the confused one here?

So since when does disagreeing with homosexuality demonstrate "hate?"

Actively blocking gay people from equality under the law *is* hate.

Trying to keep gays out of the military *is* hate.

Thinking businesses should be able to discriminate against gays *is* hate.

Your God taught "Do unto others as you would have done unto you".

See also: "Love your neighbor as yourself".

The anti-gay politics American religious leaders indulge in make them look like the polar opposite of Christians.

Which is, of course, why Spud asked you if you may have been tricked by the Prince of Lies here.

Cos that's what it looks to Spud.

Not a snarky question.

Give it some serious thought.

Be Well.

I see diablo doesn't find this conversation to his liking any more.

Unfortunately he'd rather run than even begin to rethink his position.

There is nothing much to this thread but a long string of self-affirmed truths. Got a question for you Mary

"There is a huge difference between pedophilia and same-sex relationships between consenting adults, and you know it. Children cannot consider, contemplate and weigh the ramifications of sex, and that is why society has a vested interest in protecting them from it before they're ready."

Why, if children are as you acknowledge too young, are they being taught at younger and younger ages about sex, homosexuality and the like by the same people pushing the gay equality agenda?

Why, if children are as you acknowledge too young, are they being taught at younger and younger ages about sex, homosexuality and the like by the same people pushing the gay equality agenda?

What about it?

Age appropriate sex education is the best way to reduce unwanted pregnancy, decrease the spread of STIs and reduce total numbers of abortions performed annually.

Or are you suggesting that merely learning about the existence of gay people and the fact that they are equal citizens with rights just like everyone else is gonna what, in your mind?

Make them decide to "chose" to be gay?

Really?

Really, really?

That's what you're going with?

There is simply no argument against civil rights for gays that doesn't come down to "I feel I have the right to consider you a second class citizen".

Sorry shithead, not yours, can not have.

Now go give Spud a 100 'Hail, Mary's', 50 'Our Fathers' and 50 push-ups and then go and sin no more.

Be Well.

/Knows full well he's gonna go and sin some more.
//Hate the sin, luff the sinner.
//That's how Spud rolls.

AmericanPLY:

First of all, I don't know any gay people pushing the teaching of sex to young people. I do know a good many gay people who will not let themselves be put in a position where they are alone with a young person, lest they be accused of something.

And there is nothing wrong with giving a kid a simple explanation when he has a question. Note that I said simple. If a kid asks, "Mommy, why are those men holding hands?" I don't see what harm is done by saying, "Well, dear, most boys like to hold hands with girls, but some like to hold hands with other boys." What "depravity" is there in that? The kid's gonna find out soon enough. If the little darling pushes it, asking, "Why?" you tell them, "Because they like each other." Again, I see no cause for fire and brimstone there.

All of this reminds me of a furor I once witnessed about telling kids what they needed to know about pedophiles. The discussion was endless, with many a temper lost and many a hair split. The solution? A simple, two-sentence statement: "No one but your doctor or your parents has any reason to touch your private parts. Your private parts are everything that's covered by your bathing suit." Nothing graphic, nothing scary, covered both sexes, well within a grade-schooler's comprehension.

You guys like to make it sound like there are classroom screenings of Debbie Does Dallas and a bunch of gay porn flicks, but sex education for kids should be just enough to answer their questions or to keep them safe.

Just because you say something with certainty doesnt make it right. Last time I checked, unwanted pregnancies and STI has been up since the glorious '60's when the hippies and perverts started taking over. Civil rights is nothing more than a clever mask for changing the norms of society. Just because you think that getting railed by another guy is normal, healthy sexual behavior doesnt make it so. Just because you have an opinion doesnt make it right. This stuff has only been open and out for the past 50 years and society is falling apart at a faster and faster rate.

It isnt hate. Its a belief in morals and standards. The left doesnt own the patent on righteousness. I call it what it is, spoiled, stupid children that grew up to be spoiled, stupid adults who feel that they are not only above criticism for their fuckups, but are due lip service and bailouts for their mistakes.

"Or are you suggesting that merely learning about the existence of gay people and the fact that they are equal citizens with rights just like everyone else is gonna what, in your mind? Make them decide to "chose" to be gay? Really? Really, really?"

I think that may be true for these particular people. Which would explain everything, actually.

If you loved the sinner potatoe you wouldnt encourage the sin. Mary, youre a pervert.

It isnt hate. Its a belief in morals and standards.

By all means, keep your morals and standards as you see fit.

Then, kindly mind your own business.

"If you loved the sinner potatoe you wouldnt encourage the sin. Mary, youre a pervert."

Whaddayou, Fred Phelps?

This stuff has only been open and out for the past 50 years and society is falling apart at a faster and faster rate.

Do you really want to go back in time 50 years when blacks were discouraged from voting with unjust laws and racist police and when women were still largely relegated to the home and mixed race marriages were illegal and abortion was an affair in an alleyway with a rusty coat hanger?

Those were the good ole days to you?

One of the big problems with modern Republicans is the fact that they seem to believe in a Golden Age that never really existed except through the narrow prism of their own twisted ideology.

Society is in so many way better now than it was 50 years ago.

Trouble is the economy sucks because greedy CEOs would rather pay slave wages to a Chinese worker doing a 16 hour shift 6 days a week than pay an American a fair and living wage.

The outsourcing of decent paying middle class achieving American manufacturing jobs is the real problem.

America is increasingly a country of Masters and servants.

People should be angry at the way the plutocrats have seized the agenda in DC so that the only time anything ever gets done is when the lobbyist spend like crazy and then what gets churned out is always in their benefit to everybody else's cost.

But you have one political party that continually stands up and demands to fed into the grinder because they have been tricked into buying into a narrative in which the investment class (The 1%ers who pays 15% in taxes because their money works for them rather than vice versa) are actually poor beset Job Creators who will really honestly start hiring Americans again once you fatten their profit margins a little more.

How can any sane person buy into that obvious BS?

Serious question.

Be Well.

/Yes, wandered a bit off topic there but it's all part and parcel, really.

If you loved the sinner potatoe you wouldnt encourage the sin.

In that analogy you are the sinner and your sin is your inability to live as Jesus taught.

K?

Simply enuff for you this time?

Be Well.

If we could apply that consistently across the board, Ness, then it would work. Unfortunately we have a whole lot of busybodies and activists out there pushing this issue on a very indifferent public. You cant exactly claim that society is unfairly judging you when you conduct parades through the center of town and put these issues on the ballot.

I think that may be true for these particular people. Which would explain everything, actually.

*sigh*

Spud thinks you're right.

*haz a sad*

Be Well.

/Yes, 'Simply' = 'Simple' in 108.

OK Spud. To start, Christ spoke out against sexual immorality. So, to claim that being critical of homosexuality is un-Christian is simply dishonest. Second, i'm not a Republican, and if you want to determine my opinions for me go ahead, but you arent nearly as smart as you think you are.

Ive said it before, its worth saying again. The struggle of the black man for equality in this country is in no way similar to gay marriage. Gay marriage is a behavioral issue, not an ethnic one.

And nice little deflection on the tax rate banter, but again it has nothing to do with what is going on here.

50 years ago I would have been a liberal, but its plain to me that Liberalism has turned from genuine desire for civil rights to a freedom to do whatever one wishes to do without dealing with the consequences. Liberalism today is stagnant and corrupt.

Unfortunately we have a whole lot of busybodies and activists out there pushing this issue on a very indifferent public

Except they're not indifferent. If they were indifferent, gays would have equal rights and there wouldn't be a problem. Instead you have states like mine putting anti-gay marriage amendments to vote. That's not indifference, that's persecution.

You cant exactly claim that society is unfairly judging you when you conduct parades through the center of town and put these issues on the ballot.

If there were equal rights, gays would not have to demand them. See how easy that is?

In other words, if you want to know why gays seem to be so "in your face" all the time, just look in the mirror. You, and people like you, are the reason.

Unfortunately we have a whole lot of busybodies and activists out there pushing this issue on a very indifferent public.

Translation: On the one hand, we have a group of American citizens seeking to achieve their full and equal rights under the law as encoded in the Constitution and on the other we have a bunch of Christian Sharia law seekers who want to make those citizens second class citizens in a manner that would make more sense in Iran or Saudi Arabia than in the USA.

Bottom line here?

The generations growing up now have no problem with gay folk having equal rights.

At some point in the near future this immoral, hate-fueled agenda will be much more of a vote-loser than a vote-getter for the GOP and they will drop it out of sheer political expediency although to be realistic the hatred will probably take a few more generations to die out completely.

TL,DR?

Keep fucking that dead chicken, boys!

You totally don't look like fucking assclowns doing so.

No, really.

Be Well.

OK Spud. To start, Christ spoke out against sexual immorality. So, to claim that being critical of homosexuality is un-Christian is simply dishonest.

Thinking that homosexual sex is in any way shape or form more immoral than regular heterosexual sex is where you make your first big mistake.

Second, i'm not a Republican, and if you want to determine my opinions for me go ahead, but you arent nearly as smart as you think you are.

Oh noes, another DR Independent (tm)!1!11!

You and Goat should go in together and get a deal on matching Bowling shirts.

Ive said it before, its worth saying again. The struggle of the black man for equality in this country is in no way similar to gay marriage. Gay marriage is a behavioral issue, not an ethnic one.

They are completely similar.

It's a "born this way" thing.

Which you know which is why anti-gay folks always prattle on about how it's "a choice".

That you can't or won't see or acknowledge this is not Spud's problem.

And nice little deflection on the tax rate banter, but again it has nothing to do with what is going on here.

Part and parcel, dude.

Inextricably linked.

50 years ago I would have been a liberal, but its plain to me that Liberalism has turned from genuine desire for civil rights to a freedom to do whatever one wishes to do without dealing with the consequences.

LOL. Hyperbole much?

Do you have a single concrete example of which you speak?

If you say "teh gheys" we go right back to the top of the thread again.

Be Well.

""Except they're not indifferent. If they were indifferent, gays would have equal rights and there wouldn't be a problem. Instead you have states like mine putting anti-gay marriage amendments to vote. That's not indifference, that's persecution. ""

Thats a joke right? The last time I checked, having your personal property confiscated and being shipped off to a concentration camp was persecution. But, for bratty children, not getting your way may seem like persecution. The fact is that persecution requires proactivity. The pro-active side happens to be the pro-gay marriage crowd. Until very recently it was common sense that a man and a woman make up a marriage. The reason they have been amending their constitutions and codifying it is because it has become necessary to clarify this basic truth. The gay marriage is incompatible with marriage. While the average person may be too polite to say it, the American public on average realizes that there is something dysfunctional about homosexuality, which is why they generally approve of marriage being defined traditionally. Dont like how the fight is going? Stop putting your lifestyle up for public approval.

""Do you have a single concrete example of which you speak?""

My belief in racial equality, civil rights (REAL civil rights) economic freedom and the right to free association.

""They are completely similar.

It's a "born this way" thing.""

Human beings are not born with a sexual drive, it is something that develops over childhood. Just like any other behavior, it can develop one way, or the other. In any case, people have the choice to engage in destructive sexual behavior or appropriate behavior.

""Inextricably linked.""

Hardly comparable. Just like Mary's little sidestep after she tried to blame the gay communities HIV problem with Americas emphasis on the nuclear family.

AP: Unfortunately we have a whole lot of busybodies and activists out there pushing this issue on a very indifferent public.

Ness Gadol: Except they're not indifferent. If they were indifferent, gays would have equal rights and there wouldn't be a problem. Instead you have states like mine putting anti-gay marriage amendments to vote. That's not indifference, that's persecution.

THIS.

Right here.

Bears repeating.

Be Well.

It isnt hate. Its a belief in morals and standards. The left doesnt own the patent on righteousness. I call it what it is, spoiled, stupid children that grew up to be spoiled, stupid adults who feel that they are not only above criticism for their fuckups, but are due lip service and bailouts for their mistakes.

LOL I love these kinds of posts.

It's not hate at all, they're just degenerate, unnatural freaks without morals or standards who are enacting a diabolical scheme to corrupt the world bwwaahahhahahaha!

It'd be funny if it weren't for the fact that they're too stupid to see the internal inconsistency of their views.

Gay marriage is a behavioral issue, not an ethnic one.

Ahhhh the old "choice" argument.

Gay people are hardwired that way. Simple as that.

Have you ever actually talked with a gay person about their experiences? Or do you just expect people to respect your ignorant opinions because they're religious?

Youre making up your own definitions. Just because you say its persecution doesnt make it so. Gays are not persecuted. Its a giant slap in the face to those that have been persecuted to call opposition to gay marriage persecution. Being exiled by your family for being raped is persecution. Having your nose cut off for perceived infidelity is persecution.

The fact that you make such assenine statements in such a profound way would be amusing if it wasnt so frustrating. Its like argueing with an 8 year old.

Until very recently it was common sense that a man and a woman make up a marriage. The reason they have been amending their constitutions and codifying it is because it has become necessary to clarify this basic truth.

"Common sense" and "basic truth" are code words for "I'm an ignorant dumbfuck who's only argument is 'because that's how it's always been'".

If you have time to meddle in the lives of other people - straight or glbt - then you have too much time on your hands. Get a hobby. Try to improve the life of your own family or that of others. Get a part time job. Whatever. This really doesn't affect you.

JPW, behaviors are LEARNED. This is a psychological fact. Orientation, political, religious, cultural beliefs, attitudes on life after death, sexual inclinations, are all behaviors that are taught to us by life experience.

To those who use the argument that being glbt is a choice, then go ahead and try being glbt for a week. It's your choice after all.

Then I can take you seriously.

The fact is that persecution requires proactivity.

You mean like proactively putting an amendment to ballot that bans something that is already illegal?

And, after a whole lot of bullshit and derp we get to:

Dont like how the fight is going? Stop putting your lifestyle up for public approval.

God forbid a group uses the institutions established by the Constitution to fight for rights that they do not receive. But, as Dethspud said, people like you are a dying breed. It's not a matter of if gays will be granted equal rights, it's when. You can piss and moan about it all you want, but you can't change that.

I almost feel sorry for you. Being so hate-filled about what other people do in their bedroom is no way to live.

Gays are not persecuted.

Matthew Shepard would disagree with you.

If he were still alive, that is.

#123 | Posted by jpw

No, common sense and basic truths are standards that are hated by people who dont have the discipline or desire to exercise self control. Too many people want to live in a world where we can simply take a pill or go see an abortionist to fix that little indiscretion. That is precisely why this country is in a mess. People dont want to be held accountable for their mistakes. When the majority of people hold that mentality, things are going to go downhill.

Being exiled by your family for being raped is persecution.

Gay youths are disowned and kicked out by people like you all the time. You know, good Christians.

""I almost feel sorry for you. Being so hate-filled about what other people do in their bedroom is no way to live.""

Nice attempt at setting a morally superior tone, but the issue here is the gay movement redefining marriage. I have never advocated punishing gay people for being gay.

Matthew Shephard was a victim of a vicious attack, not a victim of homosexual persecution, and as such isnt a talking point in this matter.

I have never advocated punishing gay people for being gay.

Refusing them rights on the basis of their sexual orientation is a punishment. That you cannot see this is your problem, not mine.

Matthew Shephard was a victim of a vicious attack

And why was he attacked?

""Gay youths are disowned and kicked out by people like you all the time. You know, good Christians.""

Again with the labels. You know, I think the biggest problem with office-chair pundits is that they come to the keyboard with a mindset of what the guy on the other side of the argument believes. Just because i'm argueing against gay marriage, doesnt make me a Christian. Spud and Danforth do that all the time. Stop assigning my ideology to me. I will explain it myself.

"Gays are not persecuted."

Really? Turn the tables and see if you still feel that way.

Pretend being straight is a minority, and the gays told you in order to get equal rights, you had to marry a man. Pretend you paid into the SS system at the same rate as everyone else, but didn't have equal rights when it came to benefits. Pretend either you or your wife wasn't allowed to be the legal parent of your child. Pretend you could be compelled to testify against your spouse. Now pretend there are hundreds more disadvantages like these.

Would you feel persecuted, or would you just go along with what the majority of society wanted?

but the issue here is the gay movement redefining marriage

No. You can still be married. How is this affecting you at all?

Matthew Shephard was a victim of a vicious attack, not a victim of homosexual persecution

This is incredibly naive of you.

"Just because i'm argueing against gay marriage, doesnt make me a Christian. Spud and Danforth do that all the time. "

Huh? I seriously doubt I would have ever called you a Christian.

Human beings are not born with a sexual drive, it is something that develops over childhood.

Most gay people will tell you that they became aware of their orientation fairly early.

Dont like how the fight is going?

The fight is going well.

Your side has all but lost at this point.

""Refusing them rights on the basis of their sexual orientation is a punishment. That you cannot see this is your problem, not mine.""

Youre problem is that you live in fantasyland. Marriage isnt a right. It is a legal procedure. Because you make make up in your own mind that two women should be allowed to be married doesnt make it the view of society or the elected gov't. Certain states, like New York, have come to the conclusion that gays should be allowed to marry. Good for them. It doesnt make it the same for Nevada or Arkansas.

Matthew Shephard was killed because a pair of violent assholes tied him to a fencepost and beat him to death. Again, hes not a talking point, and will not be discussed further.

"This is incredibly naive of you."

and the judge and jury that sent his attackers to prison for life.

Nice attempt at setting a morally superior tone

This, coming from the guy who said:

To start, Christ spoke out against sexual immorality.

#111 | POSTED BY AMERICANPLY AT 2012-01-29 03:56 PM

This is incredibly naive of you.

#136 | Posted by BruceBanner

No, its incredibly lucid. People are killed every day for many reasons. You guys are trying to use Matthew Shephard as a talking point for something that has no bearing in the conversation. If it was the standard operating procedure of the Wyoming Highway Patrol to catch homosexuals, tie them to a fencepost and then beat them to death all in the name of denying gays the right own property together, you'd have an argument. What you guys are trying to do is exploit a brutal, bloody, alcohol fueled murder to win an argument on a blog.

"Marriage isnt a right."

Oh, that old tactic: lie.

#141 | Posted by ness_gadol

Its pretty common for apologists of the gay cause to try and equate Christ's calls for love of your fellow man to deflect criticism of homosexuality. Christ did not give the go-ahead to sexual activity between men. His emphasis was on doing the right things morally. There was more to it than love.

#140 - pardon?

Gays are not persecuted.

Says the guy who doesn't think they deserve full and equal rights and is willing to back Christian Sharia law and make a farce out of the Constitution in order to enforce his persecution.

The irony is so thick you could cut it with a knife.

It'd be funny if it weren't for the fact that they're too stupid to see the internal inconsistency of their views.

Cognitive dissonance is a way of life for the right.

Their entire world view is composed of mutually exclusive bits of whargaabl.

That way Obama can be an empty suit who's hopelessly in over his head who also happen to be an evil super-genius plotting either an Atheist or Muslim or Radical Black Christian takeover of the American Government.

See also: A Marxist-Socialist-Communist who also happens to be in Wall Streets back pocket.

And so on and so forth.

They are like children.

Stupid, evil, brain-damaged children.

Be Well.

Again, hes not a talking point, and will not be discussed further.

These are the words of someone that knows they have lost that point.

#138 | Posted by dethspud

When "my" side loses, society is lost. You might think that your world-view is sustainable, but when the majority of people develop the same slack-mindedness and indifference to decency, then modern civilization can definetely be expected to decline. Its happened before, and it will happen again.

#144 - where in the bible does it say that you should not be gay? provide verses and context.

Here's a fun one for you:
Genesis 38:8-10
NASB
Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD; so He took his life also.
KJV
And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother’s wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

JPW, behaviors are LEARNED. This is a psychological fact. Orientation, political, religious, cultural beliefs, attitudes on life after death, sexual inclinations, are all behaviors that are taught to us by life experience.

Most of what you list there are cultural memes (religion, politics).

Sexual drive and attraction are hardwired into our brains and are the result of our development. There is certainly some argument as to environment modifying development, but at its base it's a biological process that occurs naturally. And, despite the "laws of nature" nonsense, we see people developing homosexually.

Again, talk to a gay person about their development and realization they were gay. Read a little on the biological factors behind homosexuality. It's not as easy or as black and white (or unnatural) as you think.

but when the majority of people develop the same slack-mindedness and indifference to decency, then modern civilization can definetely be expected to decline.

Translation: If it weren't for those damn faggots, everything would be sunshine and rainbows.

No, common sense and basic truths are standards that are hated by people who dont have the discipline or desire to exercise self control.

LOL well you're right about one thing-the left doesn't hold the patent on righteousness. You're as self-righteous as they come.

People dont want to be held accountable for their mistakes. When the majority of people hold that mentality, things are going to go downhill.

I don't disagree.

The problem is that this applies to all stripes and types.

Some would have it only apply to a particular political or sexual persuasion.

#147 | Posted by ness_gadol

I lost no such thing. You're bring something up that has no place in the conversation. I could do the same by recalling the Duke University official who pimped out his adopted son.

Again, talk to a gay person about their development and realization they were gay.

Yeah, right...and risk catching it? No thanks.

-AmericanPly

but when the majority of people develop the same slack-mindedness and indifference to decency, then modern civilization can definetely be expected to decline.

I find this one funny because RWingers will also claim that only a very small % of the population is gay - I've seen numbers like 1% - yet they also claim that they will be the downfall of society.

I could do the same by recalling the Duke University official who pimped out his adopted son.

Hetero couples sell their kids into slavery all the time in different parts of the world. This isn't unique.

#149 | Posted by BruceBanner

I dont want to turn this into a debate on the bible. I was merely saying that Christ did not teach that it was acceptable for people of the same gender to live as husband and wife. There are many things int he bible I find questionable.

You're bring something up that has no place in the conversation.

According to you, and only you.

#156 | Posted by BruceBanner

Just like heterosexuals brutally murder each other. It doesnt make them a talking point in this discussion. It was a cheap ploy on Ness' part to bring up Matthew Shephard.

What you guys are trying to do is exploit a brutal, bloody, alcohol fueled murder to win an argument on a blog.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that "gay bashing" to the point of murder or suicide is not a real issue?

Because if you are really that stupid and delusional there is almost no point in talking to you.

Keeping it short and stupid for you.

You hold beliefs that are bad and that makes you bad and therefore you should feel bad.

That you don't Spud chalks up to the fact that your version of morality is anything but.

K?

Be Well.

When "my" side loses, society is lost.

Wrong.

OK, AmericanPly. Forget about Shepard. Check out this article and get back to me.

Again you knuckleheads, it has nothing to do with gay marriage, and is not state sponsored persecution. You retards are trying to win an argument based on assertions and assumption.

My beliefs are good. They are based on history, decency, and proven results. This country was built by the morally sound, who worked for their descendants, and sacrificed for their families. That hard work is being pissed away.

Christ did not give the go-ahead to sexual activity between men.

Christ never said a single word about gays or abortion.

Of course, if you listen to the Religious Right in America tell it those things are all He cares about, apparently.

Morons.

Face the facts, you simply have no sane, moral or logical argument to hang your hat on here.

Not one.

Be Well.

My beliefs are good. They are based on history, decency, and proven results.

I have yet to see proof of this. I think that is what most of the people here are suggesting - merely that you are choosing based on flawed assumptions.

If you have information we do not, please do share.

My beliefs are opinions

FTFY.

#162 | Posted by ness_gadol

Check, roger. People got their asses kicked. Happens every day. What part of not including two of the same gender in marriage laws equals PERSECUTION?

Christ never said a single word about gays or abortion.

A majority of the people who use the bible to support an argument have never even picked up a bible mush less studied it.

When "my" side loses, society is lost. You might think that your world-view is sustainable, but when the majority of people develop the same slack-mindedness and indifference to decency, then modern civilization can definetely be expected to decline. Its happened before, and it will happen again.

My beliefs are good. They are based on history, decency, and proven results. This country was built by the morally sound, who worked for their descendants, and sacrificed for their families. That hard work is being pissed away.

Wow. Just. Wow.

The self-righteousness is so strong it makes me wonder what he/she is hiding and/or rationalizing for.

Either that or they're just WAY more ignorant than I ever imagined possible.

People got their asses kicked.

FOR. BEING. GAY.

What part of not including two of the same gender in marriage laws equals PERSECUTION?

You claimed that gays are not persecuted. I proved you wrong. That is all.

Check, roger. People got their asses kicked. Happens every day. What part of not including two of the same gender in marriage laws equals PERSECUTION?

Yet replace the context with that of Christians and americanply would probably be pissed as hell over the brutal persecution of his Christian brothers.

What part of not including two of the same gender in marriage laws equals PERSECUTION?

Gay people want the same rights as everyone else.

Opposing that *is* persecution.

You are simply a fucking monster for trying to oppose that.

You are completely pants-on-head retarded if you think your position is good or moral or Constitutional or rational or logical or workable or anything positive, really.

My beliefs are good.

No, they are stupid and evil as everyone has been trying to point out to you.

They are based on history, decency, and proven results. This country was built by the morally sound, who worked for their descendants, and sacrificed for their families. That hard work is being pissed away.

Do you imagine gay people don't work hard?

That they don't sacrifice for their families?

That they aren't or can't be moral?

Cos if so that might be a large part of your problem here.

Be Well.

Christ never said a single word about gays or abortion.

Of course, if you listen to the Religious Right in America tell it those things are all He cares about, apparently.

Morons.

Face the facts, you simply have no sane, moral or logical argument to hang your hat on here.

--------------------

Again the process of communication has broken down. As I have said before, Christ spoke out against sexual immorality. Sexual immorality is defined as any sexual activity outside of the bond of marriage. People being a little more grounded in reality back then understood that marriage meant a penis and a vagina. Common sense stuff.

You know what I think it is, America has become so successful, so decadent, so self and lazy, now it does take that kind of explanation.

""That they aren't or can't be moral?""

I guess that would depend on your definition of moral. The revisionist definition is a mystery. Tradition holds that it is immoral to have sex with someone of the same gender. Doubly so to do it on a regular basis. Doing it with one person of the same gender on a regular basis under the guise of commitment doesnt make it right.

Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. Paul made some minor references to arsenokoites Gk. Bed-men, and scholars have been arguing over what the word meant, since Paul was the one who coined it. It could mean anything from pimping, pandering to pederasty. Nobody really knows. Cf the wikipedia article...The Bible and Homosexuality.

Don't read the article if you want the wind taken out of your sails as a gay-hater, though. Because, you'll have literally nothing left to base your opinion on except, you simply hate gays.

"Matthew Shephard was killed because a pair of violent assholes tied him to a fencepost and beat him to death."

Being gay had nothing to do with Matthew Shepard's killing?

So why did the killers' attorneys start off with a "gay panic" defense - a tactic barred by the judge on the case?

AmericanPly: With an open mind, read this:

#173, #174, see #149. Obviously there are some inconsistencies between your idea of who Jesus wants you to fuck and the Bible's version of it. Somehow I think the historical context is what's missing here.

No, Bruce.

"It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law," Jesus replied. "But at the beginning of creation God made them male and female." "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one.

Then it goes on to say that let no man separate what god has brought together, and that if you divorce and remarry another, you commit adultery. God's plan according to the bible is that a man marry a woman for life.

Mark 10:7 NIV

#177 | Posted by ness_gadol

You may think you are enlightened, but your not more than an apologist for mediocrity. Being opposed to the persecution of the innocent and advocating the wrong standards of living are two separate things.

#179 - I think you should read the wiki article posted by MadScientist.

#179 | Posted by americanPLY at 2012-01-29 05:51 PM | Reply | Flag: sufficiently stupid to take known forgeries seriously

Keep your worthless superstitions out of my government.

You know what I think it is, America has become so successful, so decadent, so self and lazy, now it does take that kind of explanation.

Or so entrenched in its puritan roots that something that was historically a non-issue is all of a sudden a sign of the end times.

Being opposed to the persecution of the innocent and advocating the wrong standards of living are two separate things.

Your stupidity and blind statement of your opinions as fact is breathtaking.

Christ spoke out against sexual immorality. Sexual immorality is defined as any sexual activity outside of the bond of marriage.

So ...anyone who opposes Gay Marriage is being immoral?

Meh, Spud can buy that argument.

^__^

Be Well.

#182 | Posted by Zatoichi

Those "worthless superstitions" would benefit alot of people. They are simple enough for anyone to understand. But if you want to enslave yourself to your base impulses you are welcome to them, and their consequences.

Just dont expect me to pick up the bill.

Being opposed to the persecution of the innocent and advocating the wrong standards of living are two separate things.

Your stupidity and blind statement of your opinions as fact is breathtaking.

#184 | Posted by jpw

I'll explain.

Its obvious Ness' motivation for supporting gay rights is because they have been subject to harrassment and intimidation, which is wrong. It does not, however, make homosexuality a viable lifestyle. Further, it does not remedy the wrongs done to gay people to validate same sex marriage.

In other words, do not tolerate violence against the weak, but do not turn around and encourage people to do the wrong thing.

"It does not, however, make homosexuality a viable lifestyle. Further, it does not remedy the wrongs done to gay people to validate same sex marriage."

I personally know people living lives far beyond your wildest expectations though they are a gay couple. You truely do not know what you are talking about.

Tradition holds that it is immoral to have sex with someone of the same gender.

And there we go.

That's all they have left when you strip them of their logical fallacies and derp.

"Tradition."

ie. "We always done it like that"

Mankind has had alot of traditions, Dumbass, not all of them were good.

Back ye olde days they used to burn witches.

That was a dumb tradition.

Slavery was also a dumb tradition.

Making women societal chattel, also bad.

Banning inter-race marriages was a bad tradition.

Making Gods of our leaders was particularly horrible tradition.

And so on and so forth.

You have yet to make a case for why the dumb tradition of oppressing gay folks should continue or how legalizing gay marriage will in any way, shape or form negatively impact any body else.

You can't make that argument because there isn't one.

Be Well.

"Just dont expect me to pick up the bill."

Why not?

Everyone else is picking up the bill for the GOP's rape of this nation's Treasury during the Bush Administration.

Or was there a Biblical reason the Bushies were allowed to do that, bein' God's Chosen People and all?

There was no need for an explanation. I got it just fine.

I'm commenting more to your statements of it being an inviable lifestyle, wrong thing or anything else, none of which has any support beyond your own opinion formed through personal beliefs and biases.

I would also say you evidently don't understand Ness at all as I don't think his pointing to violence and harassment against gays is him attempting to tell people they should be gay. He's trying to make an argument that they represent a group of people persecuted (too strong of a word IMO, but I'm not making the argument) for something that is no choice of their own. It's the way they are and it's the way they're always going to be and targeting them because of that is wrong. Simple as that.

But if you want to enslave yourself to your base impulses you are welcome to them, and their consequences.

You think only gay people are slaves to their base impulses?

Just dont expect me to pick up the bill.

And what bill is this exactly?

OK, because now this is just getting stupid. There is no oppression of homosexuals. Gay marriage is the dumbest, most fabricated concept in human history. Maybe they should just legalize it across the country so Mary can blame heterosexuals for the sky-high divorce/turnover rates that are going to be recorded.

Slavery, women as property, blah blah blah. What you're saying is that gay marriage cant win over the public on its own merits. Another loser argument from the side of fail.

An amendment to ban religions that are intolerant of gays would make more sense than an amendment to ban gay marriage.

It would be stupid, unworkable, immoral and unconstitutional as hell but it would still make more sense.

Why?

Oh, cos being gay is really not a choice but being a close-minded, intolerant bigot actively working to persecute one's fellow citizens by denying them their civil rights is.

Basically, gay people are not going away.

They are here to stay.

The only thing that can and must change here is people's attitudes.

And they are and they have and they will continue to do so in future.

It's really as simple as that.

Be Well.

"You truely do not know what you are talking about."

Danni, we're talking AmericanPLY here.

Not knowing what he's talking about never stopped him before.

the sky-high divorce/turnover rates that are going to be recorded.

You should really do a little warm up before attempting a stretch like that.

Ya mighta pulled sommat.

Again.

You haven't given one single reason why gay marriage should not be allowed.

Be Well.

There is no oppression of homosexuals. Gay marriage is the dumbest, most fabricated concept in human history.

Maybe not oppression but certainly not equal rights.

And that final statement is a rather strong statement given the supposed preaching of commitment, love and monogamy Christians are known for. You evidently find this things so absurd that those practicing them shouldn't reap the same benefits because they happen to be gay.

What you're saying is that gay marriage cant win over the public on its own merits. Another loser argument from the side of fail.

Maybe because the vast majority of the public are ignorant, superstitious morons who believe that because that's how it is in their little Podunk corner of the world that's what's "right".

"Just dont expect me to pick up the bill."

Are you that math-challenged? Gays are subsidizing you.

Its obvious Ness' motivation for supporting gay rights is because they have been subject to harrassment and intimidation, which is wrong.

My motivation for supporting gay rights is that, even though I'm bisexual, I've been in a committed same-sex relationship for the past 5 years, and would really enjoy getting those same rights that you get. It's that simple.

But yeah, the whole harassment and intimidation thing really pisses me off, too.

""An amendment to ban religions that are intolerant of gays would make more sense than an amendment to ban gay marriage""

There we go. Ban moral thought before you ban immoral behavior.

Biggest reason to maintain the man-woman element of marriage is that gay men by definition do not maintain monogamous relationships. This is why HIV and other STDs are so disproportionately high. It makes no sense to give a group of people that naturally exhibit few of the monogamous traits necessary for marriage the benefits of marriage.

Homosexuality shouldnt be recognized and encouraged because gay men tend to act like women. I have seen many times men dressed in womens clothes, acting softly, and displaying bitchy behavior. It isnt natural for men to behave like women, and encouraging them to do this does them and this country a disservice.

Were talking about the quality of our citizenry. Conceptualizing homosexuality, raising children in it and making it more and more common is making this country soft.

""My motivation for supporting gay rights is that, even though I'm bisexual,""

Oh. That makes sense then. You want for you. I dont have any of those benefits your talking about, because im not married. You're bi, if you chose to pursue someone of the same gender than deal with the consequences.

gay men by definition do not maintain monogamous relationships.

Patently false.

Homosexuality shouldnt be recognized and encouraged because gay men tend to act like women.

I take it back. You really are just stupid.

and encouraging them to do this does them and this country a disservice.

They're going to do it anyway, with or without your "encouragement."

Conceptualizing homosexuality, raising children in it and making it more and more common is making this country soft.

What's making our country soft are the backwards and ignorant beliefs held by people like you, while the rest of the western world has decided to get the fuck on with it already.

""You should really do a little warm up before attempting a stretch like that.""

Well, you said it with such conviction it must be true.

You're bi, if you chose to pursue someone of the same gender than deal with the consequences.

I choose to deal with the consequences every single day. Now, if you think really, really hard, you might get a tiny glimpse of why your desires for "the way things ought to be" are so abhorrent to me, and why people want so dearly for your type to fade away into the history books.

You want for you.

As do you. The difference? My wants include. Yours exclude.

* Looks over thread, says thoughtfully *

You know, AmericanPLY, for someone who hates gays so much, you sure know how to take a cornholing around here.

while the rest of the western world has decided to get the fuck on with it already.

#204 | Posted by ness_gadol

Oh, you mean in Europe where birth rates well below replacement levels? That western culture? Where we talking?

#208 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore

Im sure the cornholing was all that was on your mind as you were going up and down the thread pervert. This wouldnt have gotten to 200+ comments if you hadnt said that stupid shit about the gay HIV problem being because of straight America.

The only thing that you leftist tards have going for you is obstinance.

As do you. The difference? My wants include. Yours exclude.

#207 | Posted by ness_gadol

No the difference is you want to take take take. You're masking your greed with my "hate". I dont harbor hate for anyone. But I do call bullshit where I see it.

Oh, you mean in Europe where birth rates well below replacement levels?

Let me get this straight, pun intended. You are blaming weak birth rates in Europe (which by no mean is the definition of the western world, as you imply) are the result of gays? Gays that, according to many, only make up mere percentages of the population?

You are not stupid, no.

You're insane.

No the difference is you want to take take take.

Take what? Taking implies that by granting gays rights, you lose yours. This is not at all the case. So your statement is not only absurd on its face, it is also wrapped in your own perceived notions of being persecuted.

I dont consider homosexuality a cause of anything. Its the symptom of a society that has lost its way.

This is not at all the case. So your statement is not only absurd on its face, it is also wrapped in your own perceived notions of being persecuted.

#213 | Posted by ness_gadol

Ok explain that little gem. How have I asserted I am being persecuted.

I dont harbor hate for anyone.

I honestly believe that you don't actually hate gays. What you don't understand is that your beliefs are hateful. You personally may not hate gays, but the attitudes you take have been developed over the centuries by people who did, and, unfortunately, you were raised by your parents to maintain them. It's not you're fault, really.

Perpetuating those attitudes, however, is solely your responsibility.

""I've been in a committed same-sex relationship for the past 5 years, and would really enjoy getting those same rights that you get. It's that simple. ""

No, taking implies that you want to take something. Like financial benefits. Like joint filing, or health insurance benefits. Lower car insurance, etc.

You want the same benefits? Marry a woman.

How have I asserted I am being persecuted.

By claiming that people want to come take something of yours, as if you are the victim.

"The only thing that you leftist tards have going for you is obstinance."

And the only thing that you righties have going for you is abstinence.

P.S.: The word you want is obstinacy.

You want the same benefits? Marry a woman.

Question: Why do you care whether or not I get benefits or not?

Minus an "or not" on that last one.

Its not mine to be taken. And Whore, it is obstinance.

p.s. I almost did marry a woman. But to me, my happiness is more important than the rights that I'm giving up. You think I want equal rights just for the benefits? No. I feel like I deserve those benefits in a country where "all men are created equal."

"And Whore, it is obstinance."

Just because it's on your driver's license in the "Middle Name" space?

"You want the same benefits? Marry a woman."

What a riot, coming from the guy who sidestepped when I suggested a scenario where society tell him to marry a man to get equal rights.

Its not mine to be taken. And Whore, it is obstinance.

If you really look at the idea of gay rights from a conservative perspective, it is quite obvious that gay rights are completely Republican, equality is the basic principle involved, anything which creates inequality would be both conservative and, more basicly, unconservative which isn't the same thing as being liberal and which is really what I consider myself to be.

"gay men by definition do not maintain monogamous relationships."

Whoa. The stupid is strong in this one.

#228 | Posted by Danforth

No, thats actually one of the more lucid statements of the thread. no doubt you may know of a relationship or two that has been maintained more than a few years, but gay dudes are not monogamous. Dudes are not monogamous. You're a shill for the gay community and liberalism in general, so I couldnt expect you to be honest.

...but as usual, you guys say something expecting the profundity of the tone to carry the point, but often it doesnt because your entire philosophy is undermined by the fact it is wrong.

"And Whore, it is obstinance."

My profession is editor for both magazines and books.

Your credentials, Sir?

"Dudes are not monogamous."

Since you are a dude, and moreover a dude who uses the Bible as an answer for anything, and inasmuch as the Bible wants you to be monogamous, pray tell:

Why are you bringing this up? Do you mean to tell us that it is perfectly okay for you to ignore Biblical diktats on this subject, but not okay for gays to have any self-determination in this or any other matter?

Who are you, Newt Gingrich?

"no doubt you may know of a relationship or two that has been maintained more than a few years"

I know of one over thirty years, and many over a decade. You speak from ignorance.

"You're a shill for the gay community and liberalism in general, so I couldnt expect you to be honest."

I'm completely honest. You, on the other hand, are a poster boy for inbred imbecility.

noun

1.

the trait of being difficult to handle or overcome [syn: stubbornness]

but often it doesnt because your entire philosophy is undermined by the fact it is wrong.

In your opinion. Thankfully, you're just one sadly ignorant person. Unfortunately there are many more like you that need to die off.

"You, on the other hand, are a poster boy for inbred imbecility."

Easy there, Danforth. We get enough hate mail from the Ozarks as it is.

Dear TwoPLY:

I did not say "obstinance" is not a word.

I said it was not the one you should have used. "Obstinance" and "obstinacy" are slightly different in meaning, as you might know if you had not been educated beyond your capacity.

I doubt Two-Ply is inbred.

Inbreds actually understand "forbidden" love.

""Why are you bringing this up? Do you mean to tell us that it is perfectly okay for you to ignore Biblical diktats on this subject, but not okay for gays to have any self-determination in this or any other matter?""

Im bringing this up because somebody up the thread had the gall to blame the problems of the gay community on the "heterocentricity" of America. As though celebrating family has anything to do with getting railed by four dudes at a time in a dark bar.

#235 | Posted by ness_gadol

Nature is phasing yours out quite a bit faster in that regard. The Latin influx isnt tilting the demographic in your favor either.

Nature is phasing yours out quite a bit faster in that regard.

Nature has had about 50,000 years. We are still here. You and your kind won't be in less than 100.

I said it was not the one you should have used. "Obstinance" and "obstinacy" are slightly different in meaning, as you might know if you had not been educated beyond your capacity.

#237 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore

You cant be helped.

As though celebrating family has anything to do with getting railed by four dudes at a time in a dark bar.

Your perception of what gay people are like is, at best, a caricature. This is 90% of your problem.

You cant be helped.

#242 | POSTED BY AMERICANPLY AT 2012-01-29 08:33 PM | REPLY | FLAG: Pot, meet Kettle

"You cant be helped."

I didn't ask for any help from you. I asked that you STFU.

What is this trouble you have with English? Are you another one of our resident Pakistanis or something?

"cant(sic) be helped."

The crux of the biscuit ...

And Muffy, you're full of shit: there is every advantage to society in granting gays a right to marry. Stable homes, well-raised kids, and a lowering of STD transmission rates are a few of them. I would go so far as to say that the AIDS epidemic was largely the fault of a heterocentric society - in the '80s, gay life was still centered largely around bars that often operated under protection payments to local police forces, and which were the only social outlet many gays had. At that point in time, gays literally had very little choice but to be promiscuous - they didn't have healthy social outlets, they had a very hard time finding housing as couples - everything that promoted decency and good health was systematically denied them. The "one-night stand" lifestyle that developed - to say nothing of the drug and alcohol problems that were partly the result of society's contempt for gays - was a perfect breeding ground for disease. Which is what happened.

If you are so fucking threatened because two guys want to say "I do" just like you did, there is something wrong with your sense of self-identity or self-worth or something.

#11 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore at 2012-01-28 12:42 PM

Why didn't this thread die in argument about whether Jesus was gay?

AmericanPly: What was the point of your #247?

Failure to account for your own behavior.

Well I guess I believe in Santa Clause.And I believe in laws of nature, and gay's go against the laws of nature.

LOL what a fucking simpleton.

I'm willing to bet Patron is well unaware of the large amount of grey in his "laws of natural".

#90 | Posted by jpw
I'm the simpleton? If it's natural to be gay as you and whore think, than mankind would have ended. Yea it happens in nature, but a dog will also hump a persons leg. It's called not having morals or control over your sexual urges. Same as a pedophile, it must be ok also because this happens in nature too. Why can't you just admit being Gay is not normal and your tiny minority of fags are not running the world.

Patron: I tend to be civil on this forum, as I am respecting of Rogers' rules. But you, sir or madam, are invited to go die in a fire.

Seriously.

Fuck off, n00b. You are not worth anyone's time.

Why didn't this thread die in argument about whether Jesus was gay?

Because Jesus never even existed shit-for-btins.

Fucking cataracts.
I'm paying cash because insurance says this is elective and the wait is at least two months.

Reality is a bitch.

"Facts are stupid things"
~Ronald Reagan

Zat: Cataract surgery? That's a bummer. Good luck with it; I'll be thinking of your recovery.

I'm the simpleton?

Calling you that would actually be a grave insult to simpletons every where.

You are more what Spud would describe as "pants-on-head retarded and a complete failure as a human being".

If it's natural to be gay as you and whore think, than mankind would have ended.

Human kind faces graver danger from over population than from lack of reproduction.

Demand is outstripping supply, a situation which can't even begin to be addressed on a global level due in no small part to right wing fucktards preventing the spreading of sex education, access to abortion and birth control, etc.

Yea it happens in nature, but a dog will also hump a persons leg. It's called not having morals or control over your sexual urges.

In what way is you stuffing yer goodwives wizard sleeve for the most disappointing 2 minutes of her life in any way more or less moral than two gay people having sex.

You farktards never seem to answer that question.

Same as a pedophile.

K, now you've just graduated from Pants-on-head retarded to terminally stupid hater.

it must be ok also because this happens in nature too.

You guys are the farktards insisting gayness is "unnatural".

Twisting and turning and bending over backwards to try to insist that that that response to that assertion somehow means that supporters of civil rights for gay people believe "Anything found in nature is okay" and then to use examples of things found in nature that are not okay and insist you've actually made a point is once again, pants-on-head retarded.

Are you still following?

Is Spud going too fast for you again?

Why can't you just admit being Gay is not normal...

It's been normal for milenia. Where you been?

...and your tiny minority of fags are not running the world.

America was founded in part on the principle that the tyranny of the majority was a bad idear.

Why are you such a crap American?

Yer fellow citizens should be properly ashamed that such as you exist and herp the ludicrous derp you do.

You are the past.

Soon you and your kind will be gone.

And the world will be a better place for your passing.

Somewhere, deep inside you, the last, sane, rational portion of your soul knows this to be true.

How's that feel?

Not saying you should help the process along by going outside digging a hole and banging yer head in with the shovel when yer done while standing in the hole until you turn into compost but...

It would kinda help.

Keeeds.

Spud's a joker.

That were satire that was!

Laws yeaaayas.

^_-

Be Well.

That's OK Ness.

Fucking cataracts.

Eye surgery?

*involuntary shudder*

Wow, man, seriously, good luck with that.

Get well.

Be Well.

"Wow, man, seriously, good luck with that."

Luck ain't got nothing to do with it, scooter.
That's why I pay cash and wait for my eye doc's surgeon.
Looks like mid March.

Reality is a bitch.

"wizard sleeve"

Deth, I'm so stealing that.

Live long and prosper. :P

Whoa, had to do a doubtletake. Maybe I understand where the breakdown came into play. I think it might be my delivery. I can talk tard too. It might be a bit slurred because Im loaded on oxy.

gay boinking unnatural?

It only makes sense.

Peepee doesnt supposed to go in buh-howel.

Peepee goes in girls gee-gee, that how babies made.

oh, one question, are you even American?

Heard you were a Canadian.

Doesnt too much matter, just saying.

One boy, one girl, just teh way its been all along.

Gay people been around for as long? Yup sure.

So has diabetes and schizophrenia.

Only in last 10 years has MTV made it fashionable to be a girly man.

Born that way? Doubt it, I read that newborns dont have sexual drive.

Just sayin.

obligatory. cute sounding snarky conclusion.

be well.

aply

Born that way? Doubt it, I read that newborns dont have sexual drive.

#260 | Posted by americanPLY at 2012-01-29 09:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

So---you are saying you could find as much pleasure with a man as a woman. You just choose to be with a woman---correct?

Uh oh. Buffalo Bob is here.

Might say something with conviction.

That always makes it right.

Glad he put it that way.

Now I realize.

Ive wanted Mary's manhood all along.

damn.

snark. derp.

be well.

aply

Born that way? Doubt it, I read that newborns dont have sexual drive.

As Bob mentioned if you really think it's such a choice could you please explain to us how you went about determining exactly which way to go.

Did you approach it scientifically?

Spent a month smoking pole and a month eating pussy and figured out which tasted best?

Do tell.

Be Well.

#252 | Posted by ness_gadol
Where was your phoney outrage about civility to whore mouth with her religious comment.Oh I don't agree with your gayness bullshit,got it.

#262 | Posted by americanPLY at 2012-01-29 09:51 PM | Reply | Flag

I see you running away from an answer. Not very manly. If you have the conviction of your stance, such questions wouldn't bother you. Do you regret your choice?

shut the fuck up bob. if you werent as lazy as you are stupid, you would have scanned up the thread for that answer, I addressed that several hours ago.

No, I cant say that I've dabbled in man-cunt. Perhaps I might like hate-fucking the likes of Mary, who knows. Im not willing to try. i think that is the difference.

#266 | Posted by americanPLY at 2012-01-29 10:00 PM | Reply | Flag

Which post are you talking about gay boy? I don't have the time to scan this whole thread for your silliness.

#266 | Posted by americanPLY at 2012-01-29 10:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Better yet gay boy, why not just cut and paste your answer as to how you decided not to suck a dick.

Simple isn't it.

;-)

i would invite you to utilize the CTRL+F tool, tool. Careful on your way up, there's plenty of silliness to be stepped in.

"wizard sleeve"

Deth, I'm so stealing that.

That's from this...

#269 | Posted by americanPLY at 2012-01-29 10:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

You could have just cut and pasted or written the post number instead of that post gay boy. I think you are lying.

Accept your gayness.

Facts are, the only people for whom it is a choiice is bisexuals. For bisexuals, it is a choice. For heterosexuals and homosexuals, there is no choice.

If you were a heterosexual, you would know that simple fact.

Your bisexuality confuses you.

You're right. I should just accept it. I'm glad you said it with such firmness. From the way you said it, it must be true...

Luck ain't got nothing to do with it, scooter.
That's why I pay cash and wait for my eye doc's surgeon.

Good to hear.

There are places in this world where it's okay to cheap out and buy brand B.

Eye surgery is not one of those times.

Looks like mid March.

Not sure whether a long lead in time is a blessing or a curse there.

Reality is a bitch.

Strewth.

You aint just barking.

Be Well.

How do you know Bob? Are you gay? If not, your statement is total bullshit and conjecture.

If you do take the dick regular, then I defer to you on cock swallowing being a choice or not.

How do you know Bob? Are you gay? If not, your statement is total bullshit and conjecture.

#274 | Posted by RexZeitgeist at 2012-01-29 10:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

I know because I am heterosexual. No choice in the matter. Since that logic eludes you, you must be bisexual as well. Bisexuals are the only group that has a choice. If you think it is a choice for others, it must be a choice for you. If it is a choice for you, you are bisexual.

Simple, isn't it.

;-)

Is Rex here to tells about the magical day he decided to be straight instead of gay?

This oughta be good.

Be Well.

#255 | Posted by dethspud
Spud say everyone be gay
too many people in world
Spud say having sex with wife not good
spud say him chocking on cock much better
Spud no read well
Spud think I started with nature talk
Spud check find whore mouth and pragfag say happens in nature
Spud find animals fuck their young
Spud must believe in gays in animal world ok
Spud assume people being gay ok
Spud must assume being pedofile ok
Spud fuck you and Canada!, love the hate that comes from your side when people can not accept being gay as normal. Well if it's normal for you then have at it .

What isn't so simple is 'hetrosexual' men taking up the banner of gay men when they 'supposedly' don't take the dick.

I'm thinking Pud and Bob know quite a bit about the gays.

By following your twisted and moronic logic Bob, then all pedophiles are simply pedophiles by nature and can't change their nature, all necrophiliacs are simpy necrophliacs by nature and can't change their nature, all peope who are into beastiality are simply following their nature.

Sound thinking Smokestack!

What isn't so simple is 'hetrosexual' men taking up the banner of gay men when they 'supposedly' don't take the dick.

We understand there is no choice. We stand for human freedom.

I'm thinking Pud and Bob know quite a bit about the gays.

We know about human freedom and bigots. We chose the side of human freedom. You chose the side of bigotry. To each his own.

The point stands.

If you think it is a choice for others, it must be a choice for you. If it is a choice for you, you are bisexual.

#278 | Posted by RexZeitgeist at 2012-01-29 10:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Who is 'we' Smokestack, you got a gay mouse in your pocket?

Who is 'we' Smokestack, you got a gay mouse in your pocket?

#281 | Posted by RexZeitgeist at 2012-01-29 10:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

I was being bold and answering for dethspud and myself since you addressed the two of us. Your flawed reasoning is showing through. The point stands bi-boy.

If you think it is a choice for others, it must be a choice for you. If it is a choice for you, you are bisexual.

Rex---your deflection to the smokestack is weak. I'll gladly humiliate you on that if you like. How about the car antenna? Since talking about your bisexuality seems to upset you, maybe you would like your humiliation delivered on another subject?

Nah, this is boring Smokestack, I could give two shit about gay or lesbians or what their 'hetrosexual' (pffft) advocates think.

Tell us about the US goverment 'doing' 9/11.

Tell us about the US goverment 'doing' 9/11.

#284 | Posted by RexZeitgeist at 2012-01-29 10:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Another deflection bi-boy? No one I know on the DR thinks the government "did" 911. Only idiots like yourself bring such nonsense up.

Still not even one remotely reasonable argument against gay marriage here?

How utterly unsurprising.

That the thread shitting trolls have been reduced to uttering senseless curses is a victory of sorts.

They have worked themselves up into a fine froth.

Santorum would be so proud of them.

See also: Fred Phelps, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Uganda etc.

^__^

Be Well.

#286 | Posted by dethspud
only in your mind Mr. potato head,isn't it getting late for. Time to take you parts off and and put them back in the toy box.

#287 | Posted by patron at 2012-01-29 11:46 PM | Reply | Flag

Derhspud made you look like the idiot you are. Run along punk.

isn't it getting late

Naw, Spud's on the west coast and has tomorrow off but thanks for the concern.

Not even 9 yet here, FFS.

Be Well.

Your perception of what gay people are like is, at best, a caricature. This is 90% of your problem.

Unfortunately this is 90% of the problem is so many ways. People have their comfortable little bubbles they live in with no desire to expose themselves to more. This in and of itself is fine until they decide to claim this is all that's "normal" and will slither through all sorts of hoops to make it so.

Get out more. Listen to people and learn.

I'm the simpleton? If it's natural to be gay as you and whore think, than mankind would have ended.

Yeah, you're are the simpleton. This one sentence clears it up pretty definitively.

The fact of the matter is is there are biological studies showing that homosexual behavior is not a choice but a hardwired behavior that exists in nature. It's not all or nothing, dumbass, and your assumption that it has to be to be natural means you're an idiot with no ability to understand complex ideas.

Or you can and do but decide to be a simplistic, ignorant ass in regards to this topic.

Yea it happens in nature, but a dog will also hump a persons leg. It's called not having morals or control over your sexual urges.

LOL

The first problem is your assumption of what's moral and what's not. This is likely based in religious belief which is fucking worthless so shove it up your likely over traveled ass.

Second, their "not having morals or control over sexual urges" is no different than a heterosexual banging his or her significant other. It's an ingrained sense of attraction that we're only beginning to understand.

Same as a pedophile, it must be ok also because this happens in nature too.

Name another species that exhibits pedophilia. If anything other species exhibit infanticide but not pedophilia.

Why can't you just admit being Gay is not normal and your tiny minority of fags are not running the world.

Because "normal" is the refuge for the weak minded and dumb. It's the cloak they wrap around themselves because they're too insecure to feel like they're outside of the group.

As for the rest it's just idiocy. Who's arguing that a "tiny minority of fags" is running the world? No one. But you show your true colors nicely, shit heap.

gay boinking unnatural?

It only makes sense.

Peepee doesnt supposed to go in buh-howel.

Peepee goes in girls gee-gee, that how babies made.

oh, one question, are you even American?

Finally your speech patter matches your thought patterns.

It's not so simple as what innie the outtie goes in. Only a dumbass would be so simple.

Gay men don't have anal sex because they're attracted to anal sex. If that were the case they'd be with men or women and simply do both in the ass. They have anal sex because the person they're attracted to doesn't have a vagina. It's an attraction issue and you're placing the cart before the horse by making it all about where the dick goes (also showing how shallow of an understanding you have of intimacy).

Interestingly I just realized that the entire argument is about where the dick goes.

It seems like there's no consideration of the entire spectrum of human emotion going into their shallow assessments and hate. They either don't even realize this isn't about sex or they assume that gays are so deviant that anything other than sex isn't an option.

""Gay men don't have anal sex because they're attracted to anal sex. If that were the case they'd be with men or women and simply do both in the ass.""

#288 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob
Look Bob you and tatar head can try and reason away how Gay is natural. But the rest of the real world realizes it abnormal, flawed, freak of nature. And to suggest that it be treated the same as marriage is not going to happen. I know I'm an idiot because I believe in the invisible man. well then your God Obama must also be an idiot for seeing it the same way. While I'm on the subject, whore mouth put down Christians,in a rude fashion. Notice her political correctness and said Islamic, not invisible Allah.You have no Idea what religion I am.

""Gay men don't have anal sex because they're attracted to anal sex. If that were the case they'd be with men or women and simply do both in the ass.""

Actually, you moron, there are dudes that do it for precise that reason, they are called bisexuals.

Actually, you moron, there are dudes that do it for precise that reason, they are called bisexuals.

LOL

So bisexuals have sex with men and women in the butt?

I don't know any bisexual men so I'll have to take your word on that one (how do you know that anyway?).

But actually the point clearly sailed right over your empty little head-a bisexual is bisexual because they feel sexual attraction to both male and females. This isn't rocket science, numbnuts.

It seems like there's no consideration of the entire spectrum of human emotion going into their shallow assessments and hate. They either don't even realize this isn't about sex or they assume that gays are so deviant that anything other than sex isn't an option.

#293 | Posted by jpw

What makes you think that dudes have any thought OTHER than getting laid? A dude is a dude is a dude. Ive seen some weird shit in the military, and yeah there are dudes that would be willing to fuck a guy in a dryspell, ive seen some guys with that little look in their eye. Get over this insane notion that the vast majority of gay dudes arent in the game for sex. It defies logic.

Look Bob you and tatar head can try and reason away how Gay is natural. But the rest of the real world realizes it abnormal, flawed, freak of nature.

Pointing out that you're as ignorant and close minded as most people isn't helping you.

I know I'm an idiot because I believe in the invisible man.

Religion has nothing to do with you being an idiot.

You being an idiot has everything to do with you being an idiot.

But I know. Believing we're religious bigots is easier to accept that believing you're a fucking moron with the critical thought capabilities of Terry Schiavo.

this thread just got really weird.

""So bisexuals have sex with men and women in the butt?

I don't know any bisexual men so I'll have to take your word on that one (how do you know that anyway?).""

Its common sense dumbass. Every guy has his fetish. For me its tits. If you could put a sense of Anna Nicoles on Bruce Vilanch, I might consider the unthinkable. Hell, I'd probably fuck Louie Anderson face to face if he had a great set of natural D cups with a slim little waist. Dont get carried away that was a joke.

I've talked to other guys about doing chicks in the ass. Cant say I enjoy it very much, but there are some guys who are very, very into it.

What makes you think that dudes have any thought OTHER than getting laid? A dude is a dude is a dude. Ive seen some weird shit in the military, and yeah there are dudes that would be willing to fuck a guy in a dryspell, ive seen some guys with that little look in their eye.

Well, that explains a lot....

"If you could put a sense of Anna Nicoles on Bruce Vilanch, I might consider the unthinkable."

Bi.

Ive seen some weird shit in the military,

Seen? LOL It's becoming clearer now.

Get over this insane notion that the vast majority of gay dudes arent in the game for sex. It defies logic.

I'm not denying that there is an aspect of sex.

But the issue is still that they're doing it with those they're attracted to! ie MEN. Just as hetero guys are banging every woman they can.

And again, if you actually talked to a gay person about their experiences you'd know there a lot of factors that go into gay promiscuity.

Sometimes I think you guys on the left side of the spectrum have well-thought out but wrong point of view and then I read stupid comments like this:

""
Gay men don't have anal sex because they're attracted to anal sex. If that were the case they'd be with men or women and simply do both in the ass. They have anal sex because the person they're attracted to doesn't have a vagina. It's an attraction issue and you're placing the cart before the horse by making it all about where the dick goes (also showing how shallow of an understanding you have of intimacy).

#292 | Posted by jpw at

Dudes nail chicks they're unattracted to all the time. Just a fact of life. Every guy over the course of his sexual career has slept with a very very unattractive woman in a dryspell. Some guys rely on it in times of need. Face it, a dude doesnt have to find you even remotely attractive from any angle to use you for a ...

""Seen? LOL It's becoming clearer now.""

Yeah, I've seen a guy damn near sexually assault another one in the middle of an open area in the field, to the point where the intended victim called for help.

A dude in my last unit invited me, in the third person, to come look at magazines in his room at a restaurant dining table in front of a dozen other people.

In Kuwait I got "the stare" from a British dude in the shower.

What did they all have in common? There was something seriously, obviously wrong with all three of them.

And again, if you actually talked to a gay person about their experiences you'd know there a lot of factors that go into gay promiscuity.

#304 | Posted by jpw

Yeah, mostly the opportunity to get laid. Im not going to get farther into this than I already have, so Ill end it with this. Its about getting off. Pure and simple. There might be some guys out there with daddy issues, who might go for the salt and pepper types, but its all about fucking. thats what dudes are programmed to do. This fuzzy little idea of gay men being in love and marriage being an expression of that love is just a sales tactic. Its about sex. Theres a reason why HIV and syphilis are so prevalent in the gay community, and its not because of the stigma that gay men have suffered by society. Its because they fuck too much, and they do it without condoms. That is all. Nothing more, nothing less. Thank you, have a good night.

Dudes nail chicks they're unattracted to all the time. Just a fact of life. Every guy over the course of his sexual career has slept with a very very unattractive woman in a dryspell. Some guys rely on it in times of need. Face it, a dude doesnt have to find you even remotely attractive from any angle to use you for a ...

You're hopeless.

In your above rebuttal you're still missing the point. The point is they're still BANGING WOMEN. It's not like a gay guy will bang a women if need be. They're not attracted to them! It's really really really really fucking simple.

As for your experiences, were they looking at you like that because they were in a dry spell or because they were actually gay?

Again, you have a base assumption of deviancy that, unless gotten past, will make this discussion absolutely worthless.

Thank you, have a good night.

Horseshit.

I understand that there's a higher rate of promiscuity amongst gay males, I just posit that it's not simply due to the desire to get off as you do (and HIV isn't higher because of sex rates but the manner of intercourse).

That assessment was reached after actually talking to a friend that was gay.

You really have little or no faith in human beings if you take such a simplistic and flat out false view.

You're an idiot if you continue to hold that view in the face of others telling you otherwise.

""I understand that there's a higher rate of promiscuity amongst gay males, I just posit that it's not simply due to the desire to get off as you do (and HIV isn't higher because of sex rates but the manner of intercourse).""

Right, because it must be some reaction to the oppression of an austere society. Couldnt possibly be about the availability of free and easy sex. Who would come to that conclusion?

WAKE UP

Actually, you moron, there are dudes that do it for precise that reason, they are called bisexuals.

You are a fucking moron.

Signed, A Bisexual.

Couldnt possibly be about the availability of free and easy sex. Who would come to that conclusion?

There are plenty of promiscuous girls out there...and yet gay men don't seem to sleep with them.

Again, instead of coming to conclusions based on your own ignorant perceptions, why not listen to those doing it? They don't do it because they are sex crazed fiends and only other men will accommodate them. They do it because they're attracted to me.

As you said, WAKE UP.

Interestingly I just realized that the entire argument is about where the dick goes.

"A couple is a more stable economic unit than a single person."
Quit looking for reason to try to justify your unjustifiable prejudice and bigotry."
#20 | Posted by dethspud

How un-progressive of Tater. Ask the Tater what happened to free love without responsibility. Shouldn't it read "A homosexual couple is a more stable economic unit than a single person."

How un-progressive of Tater. Ask the Tater what happened to free love without responsibility.

Do you even own a calendar?

Spud *told* you not to take the brown acid, man.

You are having a flashback.

It will pass.

Shouldn't it read "A homosexual couple is a more stable economic unit than a single person."

Gay or straight makes no difference.

A couple is a more stable economic unit and that's a worthy societal goal.

You don't have an argument against that, do you?

Be Well.

There are plenty of promiscuous girls out there...and yet gay men don't seem to sleep with them.

Again, instead of coming to conclusions based on your own ignorant perceptions, why not listen to those doing it? They don't do it because they are sex crazed fiends and only other men will accommodate them. They do it because they're attracted to me.

As you said, WAKE UP.

#312 | Posted by jpw

Thats because they're gay you moron. You're deliberately contriving the point. But, no, im not going to change my viewpoint just because a few talking heads make a few nonsense arguments. There is a reason why there are so many problems with the gay lifestyle. There is a reason why its labeled immoral. They have divorced themselves from a meaningful lifestyle in the name of self-gratification and theirs serves no purpose for the human race. The left has since the '60's been carrying the banner of self-gratification. An entire generation of men turned to shit behind tolerance and love, when its neither. Its just straight up perversity. Whatever. Every civilization has its downturn, and there are the causes for that downturn. For the cognisent, it's being able to identify and avoid those causes.

What I find really amusing is that there are people out there that actually think that gay marriage is going to do anything to change the restive spirit of these wounded men.

Babbler actually thinks marijuana should be illegal.

That's all you need to know about him.

Be Well.

#12 | Posted by dethspud

seriously..I do because of what it will do to public schools...right now there are millions of kids in desks who are already drugged out for ADD and so many other things

AND this morning there were millions who were smoking on the way to school, across the street from schools, and some even are still so supid as to try and smoke at school...REAL CIGARETTS....if you think they wont be able to get pot if its legal then you are incredibly naive.......there will be more dopers in classrooms than there are right now..it WILL Be a real problem....but then of course...you will then blame teachers when test scores or low....

"the gay nazi machine"

Godwin is a genius.

#14 | Posted by Danforth at 2012-01-28 01:15 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Godwin is a genius.

And afkabl is a cumshot that should have landed in a kleenex.

#15 | Posted by Dr_Icepick at 2012-01-28 01:30

I use that term advisedly because of the godwin effect...a post I POSTED here....but it doesnt matter....thats the best way to describe in minimum amount of words when you DARE TO QUESTION ANYTHING about gay issues ....

DR...bend over...stick your large pimply head in your ass and sneeze...

That's an especially inapt analogy given that Hitler tossed Gays into the ovens right alongside Jews, Political Dissidents, Gypsies, Communists and *gasp* Socialists.

Extra stupid points to Babbler there.

Be Well.

#23 | Posted by dethspud at 2012

JEEEAAASSSUUUSS>..I thought you were smart enough to understand the whole idea of using two terms like that together...guess you arent...

I believe if you google the term..oxymoran..you JUST MIGHT learn something today...

WOW...look...321 posts now....and I...sniff sniff...started it all..and on front page too....

and look at all of the libs moving the discussion into anal sex specifically instead of the original intent which is taxpayers shouldnt have to support acts which we find to be so counter to certain opinions, idealogies, or religious based viewpoints...I REALLY dont give a damn where barney puts any part of his body or lets this guy...but to hand over thousands and thousands of dollars for who knows how long because two guys find "TRUE LOVE"....please....

"THE END IS NEAR"
"THE END IS NEAR"

:)

post 321

I KNOW
I KNOW
I KNOW

its bad form to insult a mans' IQ and then mispell
THE FUCKIN WORD....

oxymorOn....

(DITTO one hundred times on the chalk board after school today)

there will be more dopers in classrooms than there are right now..it WILL Be a real problem....
#318 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

Still not reason enough to maintain the draconian drug laws that are currently implemented. You have no clue what sort of criminalization effect takes place upon nonviolent drug offenders when they are sent to prison. Many come back to their communities even more desperate than they were previously and even more knowledgable in the "arts" of crime. It's this cycle of attendance in the criminal justice system that has ripped urban communities apart. The black market causes multiple more societal ills that make "teen marijuana use" a side note to the discussion.

Millions upon millions of Americans have tried marijuana. Only a small fraction of this group (insignificant at that) turns to crime. An even tinier fraction of this group moves on to use "harder" drugs.

Any correlation between marijuana use as a "gateway" to other drugs and/or crime is significantly mitigated by the large number of marijuana users who never turned to harder drugs and/or crime.

Traditional marriage provides those benefits because there is a benefit for society--due to the fact that most traditional marriages have children.

Gays by and large do not have children.

#4 | Posted by MURPHY

That argument only works if its totally true. It's either the reason (procreation) or it isn't (those who can't or don't want kids)

Same reason the "sactity" of marriage is a garbage argument because of the sheer number of divorces prove it's just a piece of paper and some mostly empty words. Hell "till death do us part, in sickness and in health" is supposed to mean something, yet Noot's popular in spite of it, yet tries to preach to everyone else about how sacred marriage is when it comes to gays. yet people eat that shit up.

Tho, I'm sure some nitwit will offer up a solution of "allow no one to divorce".

I thought you were smart enough to understand the whole idea of using two terms like that together.

Anyone else on this blog I would buy that sentence from. Well maybe not Eddie.

#295 | Posted by patron at 2012-01-30 12:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

Many things have been determined to be "unnatural" by society since humanity came down from the trees. Everything from french kissing to anal sex has been deemed "unnatural", and had associated punishments if caught. Facts are, most people like "unnatural" acts of one sort or another. Ever had oral sex---giving or getting? You are a pervert in some cultures.

The point is, what other people do in their bedroom is none of our business. It's called freedom. What two consenting adults decide to do to pass the time between birth and death should be up to them and no one else.

If it doesn't hurt you, then you shouldn't try to take the freedom to live life as they choose from anyone.

If it doesn't hurt you, then you shouldn't try to take the freedom to live life as they choose from anyone.

#327 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

The fact is Bob is that no one is telling them they cant live together as a couple. What is being told to them is that society is not going to mandate benefits for it.

#328 | Posted by americanPLY at 2012-01-30 04:51 PM | Reply | Flag

Society in many places has said just the opposite. Many countries, and many States have legalized gay marriage. Society survived very well in all of those places. It is about human freedom. Gay marriage only enhances human freedom. It detracts from nothing.

How would gays marrying have a negative effect on your life? On anyones life?

The quality of people in our society is going down. When you further adjust the normalities of society by making gay relationships normal and acceptable you further that decline. Were reaching a point where people are being told to pursue their base inclinations despite being safe and smart.

It's simply unmanly for a man to take the feminine role, and unlady like for a woman have sex with other women. Its also disgusting. The left is capitalizing on the fact that many Americans arent rude or base enough to say just that.

There are many men and women who grow to regret pursueing same sex attraction, and the gay activists just as viciously go after them. They are labeled self-haters and bigots, when they simply do not want to live a depraved lifestyle anymore. Its common sense when you look at the mechanics of homosexuality, it is in fact a serious disorder. Making it mainstream and encouraging people to engage in this behavior erodes the overall quality of our culture.

If you look at places like San Francisco, and Capitol Hill up in seattle you see first hand why its having a detrimental effect. The amount of people going nowhere in life is astounding. San Francisco itself has an extremely low birth rate, and Seattle has a pretty big anonymous sex culture, you can see where that leads. 1980's Castro is a pretty good example of how gay culture can be self-destructive. All that they could do when the HIV epidemic decimated their population was beg the government for assistance. Even today they are vulnerable to the disease, and many have taken advantage of the fact that the drug cocktails keep you alive for 30+ years to engage in the same destructive behavior.

Its a life of vice. It makes this country less free by destroying the self sufficiency of our young men and women by making them sex and party addicts. In that world, people dont grow up, and dont improve. They simply live for themselves, and that will not lead to a better world.

...and if you read towards the top you can see first hand the mentality of the majority of those people in Mary's post. Whore doesnt have the common sense or decency to put the blame for HIV, mental illness, and drug abuse where it belongs, with the perpetrator. Instead, its the fault of society, basically anyone else. Does that sound like someone that will improve? No. Its someone that will take and take until their own needs are satisfied, and return nothing. This is where it is leading society.

Instead of doing the right thing, insulating our children from these mistakes it is the goal of the gay agenda to encourage people to go down this path. Stigma can be a healthy thing. It prevents people from making mistakes, and there would be a lot more people alive and healthy today if the mere pressure of society kept them from engaging in an unhealthy sexual activity.

The quality of people in our society is going down.

That's due to Bush selling us off to China. Gays have nothing to do with it.

When you further adjust the normalities of society by making gay relationships normal and acceptable you further that decline.

In what way?

Were reaching a point where people are being told to pursue their base inclinations despite being safe and smart.

People like sex. This is news to you? People should stop having sex?

It's simply unmanly for a man to take the feminine role, and unlady like for a woman have sex with other women.

Says you. Your values are not valid for others. It is called freedom. Mind your own business. Live your own life. Let others live theirs.

Its also disgusting.

Says you. I'm sure others could find many disgusting things about your life. You attitude towards human freedom for one thing.

The left is capitalizing on the fact that many Americans arent rude or base enough to say just that.

Liberals are doing what liberals always do. Stand for human freedom. Rightists are doing what they always do. Stifle human freedom as much as possible, while waving a flag or the bible. Your choice.

There are many men and women who grow to regret pursueing same sex attraction, and the gay activists just as viciously go after them.

Sounds like you think it is a choice. It is a choice only for bisexuals. Only bisexuals think it is a choice. Others know better.

They are labeled self-haters and bigots, when they simply do not want to live a depraved lifestyle anymore.

I think you've had one too many church pamphlets. Gays don't change their minds and go straight.

Its common sense when you look at the mechanics of homosexuality, it is in fact a serious disorder.

Not at all. Psychologists used to think as you, but they have since grown to understand it is not a mental disorder in any way. Gays have enhanced the world greatly in many ways.

Making it mainstream and encouraging people to engage in this behavior erodes the overall quality of our culture.

No one is encouraging the activity. People are just growing to accept it as another aspect of humanity. Again, you fail to say exactly how this erosion manifests itself in society. To me, you have a sick mind, filled with vitriol and hatred for people you know nothing about. That is a serious disorder.

#330 | Posted by americanPLY at 2012-01-30 05:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Name another species that exhibits pedophilia.

#291 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2012-01-30 12:20 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Flawed question. There's lots of animals of older age having sex with adolescents. We're the only species that places an arbitrary limit on sex. In the animal kingdom, as soon as a female is fertile, it's mating time. Humans laws tell us to wait 5 years longer, on average, or be known as a "pedophile".

Point is the question's ambiguous and makes little sense on the surface.

Point is the question's ambiguous and makes little sense on the surface.

You answered it in your critique.

In the animal world sex occurs once the female is sexually mature and fertile.

Pedophilia doesn't fall within that realm.

And I was only rebutting his assertion that homosexuality is as natural as pedophilia as the discussion up to that point had brought up the fact that homosexuality is not a human-specific phenomenon whereas pedophilia appears to be.

afk,

"ITS ALWAYS about the money !!!!!"

Are you sure you're not projecting, just a little?

Surely you can accept the idea that some gay couples just want to get married.

Why are there so many trolls on this site?

#335 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2012-01-30 08:28 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

That's why your question is ambiguous and flawed. To do the same in our own society is called "pedophilia" despite it being ephebephilia, and regardless it's illegal. You leave open the argument that if gay sex is perfectly fine and natural, then so's a 35 year old plowing a fertile 13 year old,regardless of gender.

"Whore doesnt have the common sense or decency to put the blame for HIV, mental illness, and drug abuse where it belongs, with the perpetrator."

You are one sick human being.

What I said was that gays historically were channeled into certain venues for social interactions, and that those venues could not have been better set up to foster promiscuity and disease. Gays did not have a choice other than to meet in such places, and I think one of the things that makes you the angriest is that they're now demanding better.

Do you think a deadly sexually-transmitted virus would have had less of an impact had it got its foothold in this nation's numerous straight singles bars? What if marriage was forbidden straights, and their only place to get together was under such circumstances, with one-night stands and alcohol-fueled bad judgment the norm?

The AIDS epidemic was due to three things:

1) The "breeding ground" conditions I've described imposed on the gay population.
2) A virus that was most easily transmitted by anal sex, which is not an exclusively gay practice, not by the longest shot you can imagine, but which gay men do favor for reasons that will be clear to anyone who knows the difference between males and females.
3) Complacency among governmental officials who were at best squeamish about STDs of any kind, and at worst homophobic in their feeling that gays were bringing such things upon themselves, not taking pleas for education and research seriously enough, fast enough.

What's really odd about those three conditions is that they have all been corrected - and largely by the efforts of the gay population itself. Today's gays don't want nearly as much to do with the "bar scene" as gays of thirty years ago. Condoms are the norm in gay sex, even in most gay porn (Straight porn can hardly be given away if male performers wear condoms, and now that L.A. has passed a law requiring them to, the entire industry is looking to leave the area). And gays have demanded - and gotten - better governmental response to HIV concerns of all kinds, and raised billions of research and education dollars through organizations like amFAR.

You don't know jack shit about gays, AmericanPLY - that's plain to see. And your knowledge of gays is encyclopedic compared to your knowledge of fair-mindedness and the right to self-determination.

The real reason for the gay outrage?

Being viewed as second class citizens because of their sexual desires.

The real reason for heterosexuals to be outraged by gays?

Religion, Ignorance, Bigotry.

There's nothing else to say. Spin it how ever you want.

Mary,

Let's not forget.

4) Denial by sexually active gay males who refused to curtail dangerous sexual activities.

You seem to put all the blame on everyone else and only see gays as victims.

It is an unfortunate fact that the gay culture was negligent and contributory to the spreading of this disease.

There's plenty of complacency to go around.

To do the same in our own society is called "pedophilia" despite it being ephebephilia, and regardless it's illegal.

Pedophilia has a specific definition that isn't the same as ephebephilia. Someone misusing nomenclature or using nomenclature they don't understand isn't my problem.

The fact is as far as I know humans are the only species to have sex with non-sexually mature individuals.

Everything you bring up is a separate argument.

Why does someone always bring pedophilia into the gay discussion?

It's really stupid.

Sure...some gay men like younger guys. I mean...how many straight men prefer younger girls. But that doesn't mean underage. Just young.

Personally, I never went for that. I've always had a weakness for the mature look. Is that tmi?

And then there's the "I'm going to marry my dog" routine.

Again, that is really stupid.

Gay men just like kissing and making love to other males. Not children, not cats and dogs.

The way I see it there's two main big hurdles to gay acceptance.

First, there's the fact most religions and cultures discourage gay sex.

Secondly, a LOT of men are really grossed out by the idea of kissing another man, much less putting his dick in their mouth. It's just a personal thing.

The gay world needs to accept this and live with the fact they may eventually win their freedom and the rights they are entitled. But that doesn't mean people are going to feel any better about homosexuality.

Get over the idea that the straight world is going to embrace homosexuality with open arms and even should change how they feel.

Like most things, we'll all just agree to disagree, assuming we ever get to that point.

#342 - I will give you a "B" on that answer.

Let's discuss:

Why does someone always bring pedophilia into the gay discussion?
It's really stupid.
Sure...some gay men like younger guys. I mean...how many straight men prefer younger girls. But that doesn't mean underage. Just young.
Personally, I never went for that. I've always had a weakness for the mature look. Is that tmi?
And then there's the "I'm going to marry my dog" routine.
Again, that is really stupid.
Gay men just like kissing and making love to other males. Not children, not cats and dogs.

The way I see it there's two main big hurdles to gay acceptance..
Two? Okay.

First, there's the fact most religions and cultures discourage gay sex..
Yes, ignorance and bigotry are the big hurdled to gay acceptance.

Heres where it goes wrong:

Secondly, a LOT of men are really grossed out by the idea of kissing another man, much less putting his dick in their mouth. It's just a personal thing.
Accepting gay men doesn't require you to kiss another man or suck another man's dick. Accepting lesbians is the same, though I doubt you have a problem with the idea of two girls making out or two girls slamming their beavers.

The gay world needs to accept this and live with the fact they may eventually win their freedom and the rights they are entitled. But that doesn't mean people are going to feel any better about homosexuality.
Get over the idea that the straight world is going to embrace homosexuality with open arms and even should change how they feel.
May shock you to know many felt and still feel the same way about interracial couples. But most of us got over it. Join us?

Like most things, we'll all just agree to disagree, assuming we ever get to that point.
So you're not going to join us?

""What I said was that gays historically were channeled into certain venues for social interactions, and that those venues could not have been better set up to foster promiscuity and disease. Gays did not have a choice other than to meet in such places, and I think one of the things that makes you the angriest is that they're now demanding better. ""

More horseshit. To start, these venues "imposed" on gays are self-imposed, meaning they chose to be among their own kind in a setting where they can associate with people like themselves. This is something that every single group does. Face it, the HIV epidemic is the gay communities problem because the gay community by and large did not play it safe. They wanted to go out and have sex with whoever they wanted to as often as they liked and it backfired. In the end all they could do is beg for help from the government and blame the people that told them what they were doing was wrong. They were weak and foolish. It isnt their homophobic parents fault, it isnt the CDC's fault, its not the fault of Christian America. Its exclusively the fault of the people that engaged in promiscuous sex with many partners. Thats why I camped out and ran this thread up today. For you to actually blame the "heterocentricity" of America is disgusting. What should we celebrate in this country? Horse on man? How about Fisting? Why celebrate the birth of our first child when we can get-off to bear on boy porn?

You're fucked, and instead of having the strength and humility to look inside, admit whats wrong and fix it, you, like a coward turn on others.

Pathetic.

...but just so you know Mary, i dont consider gay people to be bad people, but there is a big difference between a person who's gay, and the people that live it on their sleeve. Im sure there are plenty of people out there who just want to live free of nonsense. But they get overshadowed by the morons that want to march down main-street wearing bodypaint and a g-string. Judging an individual is wrong, but my indictment of that lifestyle is that it is decadent, weak, sinful, indulgent, and superficial. retooling societies outlook on traditions like marriage and faith in favor of such a reckless way of life is a mistake that has already affected millions and is sure to affect millions more in the future.

You are sick, AmericanPLY.

Sick.

Bill:

You have a point about the guys who wouldn't change anything about their lifestyle in the face of an epidemic, but there are also a lot of gay men of forty years old who have never experienced sex without a condom.

Clown,

"ignorance and bigotry are the big hurdles to gay acceptance."

I am a gay man married to a woman for 30 years. I was "out" at one time and am very experienced sexually. Yes...honey...it is true. Really gay. I am in love with my wife and have learned to respond sexually to only her. Not women...just her.

I was discharged from the Navy for being gay, lost access to my father because of it. He never met my wife or my son. He's dead now.

I do not really pass for straight because I just look and sound gay. I used to not believe that but I've come to accept it as true. And that's ok.

I live in straight world in ways you don't. I live in a gay world in ways straights don't. I live in boths world and yet I live in neither.

If you think you're going to change other people in order to obtain what you are entitled, you'll be waiting a very, very, very long time. This is a straight world and always will be. Always. Gays will never be anything except a small minority regardless what you think. Straights are just not going to feel like homosexuality is "normal". They can't and won't.

And I've come to realize that gays can be bigoted and ignorant, too.

Mary,

I am sure most gay men use condoms now. You were writing what initially contributed to the spread of AIDS. It was a slow transition from a condomless world I lived in as a gay man, to the world today.

Bill:

There were mistakes in the past, it is true. But today's gay community takes prevention efforts very seriously, as this article will show:

#347 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2012-01-31 06:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

Not sure what to say other than kudos on the post. Didn't expect to read anything that straight forward on the drudge today.

#347

Sounds like a rough life you live Bill. At least you are living a life you want to be living(?)
Sorry to hear about your relationship with your father aswell.

As far as gay acceptance, I'd say with in the past 20 years (since the mid 90s) gay acceptance has increased in leaps and bounds. With gays being more prevalent in society and on television they are being seen less as an aberration and more as real people. I feel like most people that hate homosexuals have yet to actually meet one in real life.

Compare gay tolerance pre and post the 1990s and you will see that as people are more exposed to homosexuals the less they dislike about them.

There are two hurdles to gay acceptance, bigotry and ignorance. Well maybe intolerance aswell. But these things can be delt with. I'm sure a lot of black people felt that same way in the 50s and 60s.

Gay people actually often do have children stupid so your hate argument fails just like you.

#18 | Posted by danni

Mainly just the really fucked in the head gheys. You know, the kind that were so confused that they thought they were straight for decades, married the opposite sex, and then finally realized they were ghey...

That kind of thinking is queer, and rightly ridiculed. How can you ot know yourself? What kind of person lives that lie?

How is this thread so long? It takes #350 posts to tell Babbler "no shit" when he finally realizes there are financial benefits to marriage?

Clown,

"With gays being more prevalent in society and on television they are being seen less as an aberration and more as real people."

Television IS an aberration.

I hope you don't actually think gays on TV mean anything. They're entertainment.

TV shows are fantasy.

What I see happening in society today isn't so much "acceptance" of gays, as it is "tolerance" of gays.

The fact that the majority of gay actors still won't come out of the closet should tell you something.

Nothing stifles a growing career like publically admitting you're a homosexual.

Gays who successfully make the transition are far and few between. And even still they end up playing a lot of gay roles.

Don't be living with any illusions that straights feels much different than they did decades ago.

They just keep it to themselves or discuss it among close friends.

I mean...how many people are really glad when they learn their child is gay?

#353 Bill

I mean...how many people are really glad when they learn their child is gay?

I can't speculate.

Don't give up hope on humanity.

You said yourself, tolerance is coming about, well 20+ years ago, there wasnt any tolerance for homosexuals. In years from now tolerance will turn into acceptance. It takes time.

Clown,

"Don't give up hope on humanity."

Absolutely not. I am hopeful for the future of humanity and for the future of America.

I am hopeful mainstream America will never consider homosexual behavior just another alternative to straight sex. It is something that should not be taken lightly. If you think you may be gay, make sure this is what you want and who you are. It's not always clear cut figuring out your values and needs to make the best choices for your life and ultimate happiness that will last a lifetime.

I am hopeful that young men and women will be encouraged to not experiment with gay sex, as if it's just another choice to make. Should I wear a red or blue shirt? Should I date a girl or a guy?

I am hopeful that schools will not permit the liberal agenda to include teaching the idea that family arrangements other than 1 man and 1 woman are "just as good".

Clown, don't get me wrong. I am very hopeful.

I am very hopeful for the future of America. I am hopeful liberals will not get their way and utterly destroy the fabric of civilization.