Tea Party racist??? Nah.

Let me get this straight:

Two DOZEN people from one of who KNOWS how many unaffiliated Tea Party groups (it's not a national group, remember? Grass roots?) shows up with a ridiculous demand and Danni whips out the biggest brush she has to paint the whole Tea Party with it?

Hey, I can do that, too. Woodrow Wilson was an unabashed racist with ties to the Klan..ERGO, all Progressives are racists. You want to keep marching down the Dumbass Expressway?

"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past."

"Two DOZEN people from one of who KNOWS how many unaffiliated Tea Party groups" Just that these folks are too stupid to pretend they aren't racist while most of the others are barely smart enough to understand they can't be openly racist. The Tea Party is a racist group whether or not TPers will acknowledge that fact, pretend that they simply appeared on the scene right after our first black president was elected if you want but most folks aren't willing to pretend to be that dumb.
Did you hear that woman at the Newt Gingrich rally the other day congratulating Newt on "putting Juan Williams in his place"????

So they can escallate the war on drugs and war on women... they fucking want slaves - and might find themselves in re-education centers for being such anti-constitutionalists via their desired prohibition laws.

So history can repeat itself after the niggers and chattel forget history - motherfuckers.

So because Juan Williams is black her comment is racist? You have got to be kidding me. Your assertion about the Tea Party coming into existence because the President is black is a HUGE leap. If Hillary had won and pulled the same crap Obama pulled in those early days, by your argument, the Tea Party would not have formed. I wholly disagree. It has the been Obama's actions and policies that led to the genesis of the Tea Party, not the man. Your logic sucks but it's refreshing to see you whip out the race card so early in the election season.

Two DOZEN people from one of who KNOWS how many unaffiliated Tea Party groups (it's not a national group, remember? Grass roots?) shows up with a ridiculous demand and Danni whips out the biggest brush she has to paint the whole Tea Party with it?

People have no problem associating the entire OWS in the same way.

-People have no problem associating the entire OWS in the same way.

and you think one broad brush is correct and the other is "unfair".

There's Wallback with a "they do it too", as usual.

Using Danni's logic, the Fleabaggers are racist too, because they didn't come to the party until we had a black man as president either.

Is it universally agreed upon that Danni is retarded?

Where in the article did it say these people identified themselves as Tea Party members?

....."the founders intruding on the Indians"......

.....intruding on them, as in, "sorry we dropped in for tea without calling ahead".....

Conservatives are by nature backward looking, but these guys don't so much want to re-create the mythical past, as to go back in time and get a complete re-do.

They deny the fact that America was stolen from the Indians, who were then almost exterminated in an act of genocide. Everytime I hear "....America was founded on....." followed by some fantasy, I am reminded that the U.S.A. was founded on theft and genocide.

Is it universally agreed upon that Danni is retarded?
#10 | Posted by 101Chairborne

......she's smarter than you......

We should get rid of the entire Civil War while we are at it. Is it really good for our children to learn this nation was once so divided that brother killed brother, yet we survived?

The past is the past afterall.

Reagan and JFK were never shot because why would anyone want to shoot a US President? WE can't have kids thinking about such things.

There has never been a war since WW2, because not winning is a sign of weakness and we can't have kids thinking their homeland is weak.

FTA:
"...an awful lot of made-up criticism about, for instance, the founders intruding on the Indians or having slaves or being hypocrites in one way or another."

Well, they did intrude, and many did have slaves.
What's the "made-up criticism"?

This doesn't sound like rank-and-file Tea Party philosophy, nothing to do with smaller government, lower taxes, etc.
This is just some silly pursuit, an attempt to distort history.
Sure, a lot of that history is shameful, but that doesn't mean you pretend it wasn't that bad, or whitewash it.

There's a lot of American history to cover in school, and some things have to take a back seat, or be glossed over, but the slave trade is hardly one of them.
Yes, the slave trade was a part of the "Atlantic triangular trade", but let's call it slavery, and teach students the history of it, the reasons for it, and the effects of it.

"I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America that's the America millions of Americans believe in. That's the America I love."

Ya-hooooo!

"The past is never dead. It's not even past."

The left has been revising IS history for many decades - why stop now?

and you think one broad brush is correct and the other is "unfair".
#9 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2012-01-24 09:49 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Never said that. But if you have to assign a position to my context, have fun.

Just so you know, both are equally wrong.

Two DOZEN people from one of who KNOWS how many unaffiliated Tea Party groups" Just that these folks are too stupid to pretend they aren't racist while most of the others are barely smart enough to understand they can't be openly racist. The Tea Party is a racist group whether or not TPers will acknowledge that fact, pretend that they simply appeared on the scene right after our first black president was elected if you want but most folks aren't willing to pretend to be that dumb.
Did you hear that woman at the Newt Gingrich rally the other day congratulating Newt on "putting Juan Williams in his place"????

#4 | Posted by danni at 2012-01-24 08:40 AM | Reply |

smaller more efficient governemnt, lower tax rates giving more americans more disposable income-- you're right Danni-- pure hatred from the TP.

Conservatives are by nature backward looking, but these guys don't so much want to re-create the mythical past, as to go back in time and get a complete re-do.12 | Posted by skizziks at 2012-01-24 10:25 AM | Reply

hilarious from the person who toutes the good ole days of the great society as the way to turn this economy around. how very forward thinking of you skidmarks

hilarious from the person who toutes the good ole days of the great society
#21 | Posted by kersh

.....I call bullshit...

....you can disprove me with a link to any of my previous posts, but you won't find one, I know what I post.......

"smaller more efficient governemnt, lower tax rates giving more americans more disposable income-- you're right Danni-- pure hatred from the TP."

Oh, danni absolutely hates anything and everything, anybody and everybody, not in total rapture with anything and everthing democrat. Her little heart hates J.C. Watts, Herman Cain, Condoleeza Rice...and ESPECIALLY Allen West, but she's not racist or anything you understand, not like YOU are if you don't support the Great Community Organizer and Race Healer. LOLOL, she's great for laughs though.

All Tearrorists must stand behind Tearrrorist words. Fetuses and corporations are people, slaves clearly were not. Nor are working people (who still have jobs) and those in the military. herm

Danni,

Then what would that make a political party that had an ex KKK leader as one of their senate leaders? Sen Byrd, D-WVa was that person, you cannot have it both ways your choice.

When they owned slaves the prevailing wisdom was that the blacks weren't people so there was nothing wrong with it.

It correlates perfectly with the prevailing wisdom on abortion. And if we are going to retroactively judge them on the way they thought might I suggest that they would have considered us barbaric animals for the values we have today with out of wedlock births, debt, abortion, porn crime and child victimization.

What is completely hilarious is that Danni will post and believe this... but overlook all the incidents of OWS behaving in pretentious and violent ways.

Strange... I thought you couldn't define a whole group by what a few of the members did? What about that Danni? Or did you simply forget what you posted since yesterday?

They deny the fact that America was stolen from the Indians, who were then almost exterminated in an act of genocide. Everytime I hear "....America was founded on....." followed by some fantasy, I am reminded that the U.S.A. was founded on theft and genocide.

#12 | POSTED BY SKIZZIKS AT 2012-01-24 10:25 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Flag: self loather alert!!!

We all share this earth? Why should the Indians have more of it to themselves then anyone else? Why is it ok for Europeans to go starving while Indians have an entire contininent to themselves and more food and resources then they can deal with or even use?

The wrong that was done to the American Indians was done at the hands of the us federal government. A federal government that dumbasses like yourself still support and wish to give more power to.

Slavery was on the continent for 200+ years. The founding fathers ended it in 4 score and 7. Yet it's perfectly ok to lie about the history of the country because the founding fathers are evil, rich, white fuckbastards.

Does that about sum it up Danni?

This just in: the Tea Party in Germany wants all reference of the holocaust taken out of their history books aswell.

Dr Dumb you sure fucking fail at reading comprehension.

Try again.

Where in the article did it say these people identified themselves as Tea Party members?

#11 | Posted by glasshouse at 2012-01-24 10:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

In the first sentence, but be obtuse if you need to.

"Members of Tennessee tea parties presented state legislators with five priorities for action Wednesday, including “rejecting” the federal health reform act, establishing an elected “chief litigator” for the state and “educating students the truth about America.”

Dr Dumb you sure fucking fail at reading comprehension.
Clownshit - I did. You learn to read.
It didn't say remove references to slavery.
It said to stop denegrating the men who ended it.

Here - No portrayal of minority experience in the history which actually occurred shall obscure the experience or contributions of the Founding Fathers

A federal government that dumbasses like yourself still support and wish to give more power to.

#28 | Posted by Dirk at 2012-01-24 03:20 PM | Reply | Fl

^^^^^

Will vote for a republican who pretends to hate the US Government, yet wants a job working for it, and probably has been working for it for years.

Where in the article did it say these people identified themselves as Tea Party members?

Clownshit apparently didn't comprehend that either.
Once again, more lies from our beloved chocolate sister Danni.
All in an effort to find friends like Clownshit (who can't read) to support her political agenda.

#28 Dork

You are completely clueless aren't you you fucking retard.

So your stating the Native Americans were being selfish because they didn't hand over their land and get the fuck out??

I guess slaves were acting like ungrateful brats, after all, their owners fed them and gave them shelter.

And the Jews over reacted to the holocaust, obviously they couldnt comprehended Hitler's vision for a perfect tomorrow.

You fucking disgusting POS. I cannot believe you would try to justify the extermination of an entire civilization of human beings.

When they owned slaves the prevailing wisdom was that the blacks weren't people so there was nothing wrong with it.
Coincidentally, that's what our right-wingers say about Muslims and child molesters.

It correlates perfectly with the prevailing wisdom on abortion.
No it doesn't. It correlates perfectly with what right-wingers say about Muslims and child molesters, though.

And if we are going to retroactively judge them on the way they thought might I suggest that they would have considered us barbaric animals for the values we have today with out of wedlock births, debt, abortion, porn crime and child victimization.
Oh. So you're a moral relativist. I admit, I didn't see that one coming!

"This just in: the Tea Party in Germany wants all reference of the holocaust taken out of their history books aswell."

Update to the previously reported story: the members of the TEa Party in Germany were then arrested. In Germany it is against the law to deny the holocaust. Maybe it should be against the law to try to rewrite American history too.

"When they owned slaves the prevailing wisdom was that the blacks weren't people so there was nothing wrong with it."

Well the Southern states considered them people when it came to apportionment, 3/5 of a person to be exact.

Maybe it should be against the law to try to rewrite American history too.

Posted by danni at 2012-01-24 04:05 PM | Reply

If they did that, we'd have to burn every history text in all our schools currently.

Dr Dumb you sure fucking fail at reading comprehension.
Clownshit - I did. You learn to read.
It didn't say remove references to slavery.
It said to stop denegrating the men who ended it.
Here - No portrayal of minority experience in the history which actually occurred shall obscure the experience or contributions of the Founding Fathers
#33 | POSTED BY DR_DUMB2

Which founding father was it that ended slavery? Was it Washington? Jefferson? Madison? Founding fathers are the guys that signed the deceleration of independence, which one of those guys ended slavery??

Let me guess, you, like Palin, also believe that Paul Revere rode through town to warn the British that the British are coming.

Dr Dumb2, a failure at American History.

Well the Southern states considered them people when it came to apportionment, 3/5 of a person to be exact.

Posted by danni at 2012-01-24 04:06 PM | Reply

Actually, incorrect, they wanted them to count as a whole person. Just for representation purposes, that is.

Northern states wanted them to not count at all as people.

So, northern states didn't really consider them people either.

There were thoughts that if they slaves were freed, they might all starve to death (reminds me of the dems, actually), some others thought that if they were freed they would rebel like they had done in Haiti (reminds me of repubs, sort of).

Several founding fathers (some that opposed the Constitution) had very strong warnings that the union would not last without the settlement of the slavery question. I believe it was Mason that actually predicted the civil war should the Constitution pass without slavery being dealt with in a more permanent fashion.

Then what would that make a political party that had an ex KKK leader as one of their senate leaders? Sen Byrd, D-WVa was that person, you cannot have it both ways your choice.

Byrd recanted of his ways. Unlike REPUBLICAN IDOL Strom " pedophile rapst" Thurman, who ran for President as a strict segregationist and whom REPUBLICAN Speaker Trent Lott wished had won, to keep the coloreds in their place.

Or do you tea baggers want to erase THAT part of history, too?

"Every master of slaves is born a petty tyrant. [Slaves] bring the judgment of heaven on a Country. As nations can not be rewarded or punished in the next world they must be in this. By an inevitable chain of causes & effects, providence punishes national sins, by national calamities."

George Mason

(Yes, he inherited and kept slaves and willed them to his family. A fascinating paradox or hypocritical stance, whichever you prefer.)

Where in the article did it say these people identified themselves as Tea Party members?
#11 AssHouse and #35 Dr Dumb

Learn to Read,
From the Article:

A little more than a year after the conservative-led state board of education in Texas approved massive changes to its school textbooks to put slavery in a more positive light, a group of Tea Party activists in Tennessee has renewed its push to whitewash school textbooks. The group is seeking to remove references to slavery and mentions of the country's founders being slave owners.

During the news conference more than two dozen Tea Party activists handed out material that said, "Neglect and outright ill will have distorted the teaching of the history and character of the United States. We seek to compel the teaching of students in Tennessee the truth regarding the history of our nation and the nature of its government."

Which founding father was it that ended slavery? Was it Washington? Jefferson? Madison? Founding fathers are the guys that signed the deceleration of independence, which one of those guys ended slavery??

The principles of freedom laid out in the founding documents ended slavery genius. Or do you think that the institution that long existed prior to America just caved in all by itself 2 generations after the constitution was adopted, by coincidence of course.

Hmmmmm guess Danni does not have an answer on the Senator Byrd question. Funny how she ignores facts that do not appeal to her ideas.

Here is another one for you, many states have laws that allow prosecution for murder if a fetus dies as a result of the murder of a woman. Yet an abortion is not murder, once again which is it? You cannot have it both ways.

Well fuck me for trying to introduce a little history.

By all means, back to the feces flinging festivities...

So where does it say that Hal Rounds (at attorney) is a Tea Party activitist Clownshit?

He might be, but I don't see it in there. In fact, down below in the comments it says that Hal Rounds is an atheist. But I am sure a reader of your stature didn't miss that.

"You cannot have it both ways."

Read your own post, you obviously can have it both ways.

I think these people just did not write the petition very well. They didn't get their point acros clearly. When you read this , i think i see a point that could have been beter made:

No portrayal of minority experience in the history which actually occurred shall obscure the experience or contributions of the Founding Fathers, or the majority of citizens, including those who reached positions of leadership.”.......
“The thing we need to focus on about the founders is that, given the social structure of their time, they were revolutionaries who brought liberty into a world where it hadn’t existed, to everybody â€" not all equally instantly â€" and it was their progress that we need to look at...

What they should have tried to do is make a convincing argument, by giving examples, of how the current textbooks strictly demonize the founding fathers and their contemporaries by focussing only on slave ownership. I think their point is They want the textooks to not completely overshadow some of the positive acomplishments by focussing only on slavery.... I think they were trying to argue balance the focus , not remove slavery all together .... as the lying retarded douche who posted this aticle used as the headline. Here's the real hadline : "Tea parties issue demands to Tennessee legislators"

Well fuck me for trying to introduce a little history.

Appreciate the link.
But Clownshit doesn't give the founding fathers any credit for ending 2 centuries of prior oppression by laying out the foundations of a government based on liberty and freedom. They had nothing to do with it because they were just a bunch of rich white guys. Funny how Lincoln himself credited the founding fathers as much in the Gettsyburg address - which Clownshit apparently hasn't read.

Clownshit must be carved out of the Obummer mold that just lays blame for every problem on past administrations and credits his own for every solution.

.... the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle of the 2 extreme sides of the argument ......

.... the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle of the 2 extreme sides of the argument ...

So if I say the sky is extremely blue and you say the sky is extremely red, that must mean the sky is purple.
Got it.

I mean unless Danni has a secret power to read words on a webpage that I can't see, I don't see the words "remove slavery" in the petition.
I do see this :(emphasis aded)
given the social structure of their time, they were revolutionaries who brought liberty into a world where it hadn't existed, to everybody , not all equally instantly ... and it was their progress that we need to look at...

that statement is absolutely true ....
Why even have this thread? why do so many retards buy into the false permise created by Dummi and come here and argue this????
Rogers wouldn't you normally step in and change this terribly innacurate and misleading headline?

I think their point is They want the textooks to not completely overshadow some of the positive acomplishments by focussing only on slavery

Only problem: There is not a single textbook which does this.

To me this is about a bunch of assholes in Tennessee promoting racism under the banner of the Tea Party.

Tea Party: Not racist, but #1 with racists.

#55 | Posted by dr_dude2

So if I say the sky is extremely blue and you say the sky is extremely red, that must mean the sky is purple.
Got it.

That would not be a real,legitmate argument, that would be one person who was obviously seriously confused. Simpleton.

Slavery AND Indentured Servitude (not a dimes worth of difference between the two - except they enslaved BOTH Black and White) are part of our history! As such they should be taught as something we got past on our way to 'enlightenment'(?)! The Bill of Rights lays our failures AND success out for ALL to see, unlike other freedom loving countries! Let it alone!

Simpleton.

You laughed though.

#57 Only problem: There is not a single textbook which does this.

WRONG- read one.
distribution is concentrated to the few dozen or so publishers with the strongest lobbying aparatus. They are all heavy pushers of the liberal agenda.

Slavery AND Indentured Servitude (not a dimes worth of difference between the two - except they enslaved BOTH Black and White) are part of our history! As such they should be taught as something we got past on our way to 'enlightenment'(?)! The Bill of Rights lays our failures AND success out for ALL to see, unlike other freedom loving countries! Let it alone!

Of course they should. We fought a destructive war to end it.
All they're saying is put it in perspective. Some of The founding fathers were slave owners. It was the foundation of the whole southern economic system at the time. They were born into the system like everyone else. But they also laid the foundation for slavery to end. They put their own lives at risk from the British army when they signed the Declaration. Prior to that, slavery hadn't ended. It had gone on for centuries.

People like Clownshit & Danni need to get their head out of their asses and learn some fucking history. Real history. Not libtard revisionism.

self hating apologetic revisionist history. This is a hallmark of the Democrat ghetto landlord. Keep voting for me i'll feed you white devil stories.

The problem with the way we teach slavery is that it doesn't discuss the labor and economic aspects of it. Just focuses on "freedom."

Slavery would have been more expensive for factory bosses up north. They would have had to house their slaves, feed them, and when one dies from an accident or disease, their investment is gone. Much cheaper to let workers struggle to make it on their own. I mean, let the workers be free!

What's the return on investment of maintaining ownership of your labor pool like a slaveowner? Especially when boats were bringing replacement workers to Ellis Island every day.

We see remants of this when looking at health care in our country. Why should an employer care if their workers get sick? Especially towards the bottom of the wage scale, employers don't. If they cared, they'd provide health insurance.

Did you hear that woman at the Newt Gingrich rally the other day congratulating Newt on "putting Juan Williams in his place"????
#4 | Posted by danni

But they also laid the foundation for slavery to end. They put their own lives at risk from the British army when they signed the Declaration. Prior to that, slavery hadn't ended. It had gone on for centuries.

Utter horseshit. "Laid a foundation for slavery to end" is not a reason for the Revolution.
Slavery ended because the industrial economy is more profitable, and the factories were in the north.
Slavery also ended because technology reduced the need for so many people to work in agriculture.
Slavery did not end because we Americans have some exceptionally great love of freedom.
Like every war, the Civil War boiled down to two sides fighting for their economic self-interest.

This just in: the Tea Party in Germany wants all reference of the holocaust taken out of their history books aswell.

#30 | Posted by ClownShack

This just in: The Noot wants all reference to his failed Marriage(s) and lack of Family Values erased immediately.

#46

Yea, it "collapsed". Don't let that Civil War thing get in your way.

So, which founding fathers freed the slaves??

Did you hear that woman at the Newt Gingrich rally the other day congratulating Newt on "putting Juan Williams in his place"????
#4 | Posted by danni

Juan is not authentically black ..
- signed; PBS

#65 | Posted by L_E_Light

Them Blacks is sure gettin a might bit uppity lately.

I hears tell dey got one in de dang ole White House now.

Utter horseshit. "Laid a foundation for slavery to end" is not a reason for the Revolution.

That's not at all what it says in post #62 so the only utter horeshit ( which has gotten you obviously agitated and losing your composure) came from your own lack of understanding.
Do try again... though.

Did you hear that woman at the Newt Gingrich rally the other day congratulating Newt on "putting Juan Williams in his place"????
#4 | Posted by danni

Juan is not authentically black ..
- signed; PBS

#65 | Posted by L_E_Light

Them Blacks is sure gettin a might bit uppity lately.

I hears tell dey got one in de dang ole White House now.

#69 | Posted by donnerboy

I am not authentically black ..
- signed; BHO

Dr Dumb is a failure at reading comprehension and American History.

Perhaps they should add to the history of slavery that the slaves were purchased on the shores of Africa from tribes who were selling their own race, which is still going on today. Do our children's history books discuss this? No? EXACTLY!

#73

Actually, yes, we were taught in American history about Africans assisting in getting/selling slaves for the slave trade.

What's your point? You don't have one?? EXACTLY!!!

"Do our children's history books discuss this? No? EXACTLY!"

Actually, any decent history book does teach where the slaves came from and who sold them. If yours didn't then perhaps you should question why.

Love how liberals play the race card every opportunity they get when it's their party who was against the Civil Rights movement, and ending Slavery. Liberals are the TRUE racists.

Liberals wouldn't have a reason to live if they couldn't find something wrong with the world.

If you're willing to remove any mention of heterosexual marriage from textbooks, why not slavery too?

All they're saying is put it in perspective.

Yes.
Put it in perspective by censoring certain information.
Is there a class later on, where they explain how some of the Founding Fathers did own slaves?
Or do we save that "life lesson" for the job market?

Actually, yes, we were taught in American history about Africans assisting in getting/selling slaves for the slave trade.

Did anybody ask why Africans assisted in getting and selling other Africans?

Or do we save that life lesson for the "job creator" market?

RW revisionism?

Orwell would be so proud!

the founders intruding on the Indians

"Genocide" = "intruding" now?

Wow, just wow.

Be Well.

Texas already has these rewrites of history completed. Arizona is in the middle of it.

True... the 1%'ers have made us all slaves now through perpeptual debt, doesn't matter the color. Cept now it's been perfected, we've got to provide our own room and board. Put that in the history books.

Utter horseshit. "Laid a foundation for slavery to end" is not a reason for the Revolution.
Slavery ended because the industrial economy is more profitable, and the factories were in the north.
Slavery also ended because technology reduced the need for so many people to work in agriculture.
Slavery did not end because we Americans have some exceptionally great love of freedom.
Like every war, the Civil War boiled down to two sides fighting for their economic self-interest.

Dr Dumb is a failure at reading comprehension and American History.

Translation -
Clownshit's ass has been owned and has no retort.

So, which founding fathers freed the slaves??

I heard Obama blamed GWB for freeing the slaves.
I mean, wtf. Throw that on the fire with everything else.

The problem with the way we teach slavery is that it doesn't discuss the labor and economic aspects of it. Just focuses on "freedom."

They should teach it. All aspects of it. Economic, political, social. That way, when people like Clownshit blame the founding fathers for not having ripped up and replaced the entire social, political and economic system on the continent on July 5, 1776, people will have a better of understanding as to why Clownshit's position should be ignored. Perhaps they'll understand why it took 2 or 3 generations to end a practice that had gone back to the fucking Persian empire prior to that. (Or perhaps he would only take it back to the Portugese Atlantic trade in 1450.)

Either way. It was around for centuries before America existed. Centuries. After America was formed, it lasted only 87 more years. It was gone inside of one person's lifetime. Give the country (and the founding fathers) some fucking credit.

But, but that would make America the country that ended slavery!?

Yeah. Go figure.
Wouldn't support the liberal "America is evil" agenda too well would it?

It was around for centuries before America existed. Centuries. After America was formed, it lasted only 87 more years. It was gone inside of one person's lifetime. Give the country (and the founding fathers) some fucking credit.

When it comes to what put this country on the trajectory towards greatness, the slaves deserve as much credit as the Founding Fathers.

America could never have been successful without slavery. All the Founding Fathers wanted was for England to stop taking such a big slice of the pie.

But the pie itself, the prize that is America, it was built with slave labor. And coudn't have been built any other way. If anything, the Founding Fathers deserve credit for seeing to it this nation was built, and built well, on the backs of slaves.

They get no credit for ending it, quite the opposite. They wrote a Federal law which prevents a rogue state with visions of emancipation from banning the right to bear arms, which would have made the work of the slave master that much harder. And they gave disproportionate representation in Federal government to the slave states, by counting the slaves as 3/5 a person for representation purposes, despite have 0/5 of a free person's rights. This was a nod to the South, and slavery, as the economic engine driving the country at the time.

When it comes to what put this country on the trajectory towards greatness, the slaves deserve as much credit as the Founding Fathers.

I'll go you one better genius. Had it not been for slavery, many white Europeans wouldn't have come here. And it wasn't just the country. It was two continents - North and South America. The central American region as well. So take your self righteous revisionist bullshit and shove it. Whatever compromises the founding fathers had to make in order to free the country from the shackles of Europe were temporary and the principles on which those freedoms were based eventually found their way to the slave population however painful. And, to boot, the founders knew the issue was eventually going to have to be dealt and allowed for such by implementing a system of amendments that allowed it to happen.

In addition, it was the economic freedoms that allowed people like Eli Whitney to invent the cotton gin and other machinery that eventually made farming less dependent on slave labor - to someone's earlier point. But that didn't kick into high gear until after the civil war.
Bottom line was that it was the system of government set up by the founders that lead to the demise of slavery.

So take your selective points of revisionist non-sense somewhere else. But should you choose not to, then consider this. If you want to blame the founders for kicking the can down the road 87 years, perhaps you should apply the same logic with the same level of passion to the current Messiah in the Whitehouse who has far simpler issues to deal with than slavery yet does the same fucking thing.

Bottom line was that it was the system of government set up by the founders that lead to the demise of slavery.

Not at all.
There's no special role played by our system of government when it comes to ridding ourselves of slavery.
The very obvious proof is that many countries with many systems of government also ended slavery.
And all right around the same time.

"The very obvious proof is that many countries with many systems of government also ended slavery.
And all right around the same time."

How many did without firing a single shot? All but the US?

How many did without firing a single shot? All but the US?

Posted by crispee_oc at 2012-01-25 01:29 PM |

US did not "fire a single shot" over slavery. It was a war between the States and the Federal government with slavery being used retrospectively to demonize anyone who supported states rights and the 10th Amendment.

Not at all.

Obviously. It was all coincidence that slavery came to the Americas in 1450 and ended in 1865. All that shit that was signed in that late 1700s had nothing to do with it. After all, those were just a bunch of rich white fuckheads that went to Philadelphia for the cheese steaks.

"US did not "fire a single shot" over slavery. It was a war between the States and the Federal government with slavery being used retrospectively to demonize anyone who supported states rights and the 10th Amendment."

Never argued any different. But to the many who think it was all about slavery, that question applies to them, not you.

If you want to blame the founders for kicking the can down the road 87 years

I don't really blame them for that. Slavey was an ugly necessity in America's infancy. And putting some sort of time limit on it, maybe declaring slavery illegal after the first century, would be rife with unintended consequences.

I do however think there's a pretty strong connection between the Slave Importation Act of 1807 and the existence of a black underclass today. The Slave Importation Act essentially forced a eugenics program with whatever slave breeding population we had available in 1807. That's not to say the alternative of continuing to import slaves would have been better.

The men that came after the Founders weren't as good as the Founders. Didn't have the vision. It's a common problem in politics. For example FDR put America at the top of the planetary food chain. Presidents since then haven't really figured out what we're supposed dto be doing up there. They're mostly content so long as the war machine turns a nice profit.

"The very obvious proof is that many countries with many systems of government also ended slavery.
And all right around the same time."

No one stopped the Transatlantic slave trade (Africans) until the French did in 1789 - their revolution. And guess what inspired their revolution.
Again, all just coincidence. It's also coincidence that daytime arrives after the sun comes up. Go figure.

I do however think there's a pretty strong connection between the Slave Importation Act of 1807 and the existence of a black underclass today.

There's a stronger correlation between the welfare state and the black underclass today. But I am not going there again.

FDR put America at the top of the planetary food chain.

More revisionism.
WWII put America at the top of the food chain. FDR was around for a decade before it started and we weren't at the top of the food chain then.
We were the only country that came out of WWII better off than when it had started.

But perhaps that's because the founding fathers were racists.

The men that came after the Founders weren't as good as the Founders

Lincoln was.
Obama is too. According to Obama.

There's a stronger correlation between the welfare state and the black underclass today. But I am not going there again.

It's all part of the same continuum.
As property, slaves exist in a de facto welfare state.
It's not a centrally planned welfare state like we see in the modern world.
But rather the welfare conditions are determined by each property owner.

This is their attempt to whitewash history. Get it? Whitewash?

FDR put America at the top of the planetary food chain.

More revisionism.
WWII put America at the top of the food chain.

Uh..... you just agreed with me.
Oh, wait. You're saying it was the war, not FDR.
That seems like a distinction without a difference.
FDR made damn sure we got into that war.
He loaned the British as much materiel as their ports could handle.
All so we'd have a seat at Yalta.

But perhaps that's because the founding fathers were racists.
You really have me pegged wrong.
I'm not bothered by the fact that most people are racist.
I care about outcomes.
On this issue I'm a bit like the crazy Christians who don't mind if a man fantasizes about another man's junk.
It only becomes a problem when Senators act on those fantasies in a Minneapolis airport bathroom.
So it is with racism. Hate blacks or whoever all you want, just don't act on that hatred and there's not really a problem.

We were the only country that came out of WWII better off than when it had started.

That's because war never made it to our shores to destroy our cities.
Not that it ever stood much of a chance of getting here.
Our pineapple plantation in the Pacific notwithstanding.

FDR made damn sure we got into that war.

Actually, I thought the Japanese did that.
Guess not.

I'm not bothered by the fact that most people are racist.

I agree. It's about actions not beliefs.
Wow, Common ground.

Silly shit. History is just that. History.

"FDR was around for a decade before it started and we weren't at the top of the food chain then."

Actually, I think we were at the top of the food chain probably since the reconstruction era ended after the civil war.

""I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto

Actually, I think we were at the top of the food chain probably since the reconstruction era ended after the civil war.

""I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

Correct. "A" sleeping giant. Not "THE" sleeping giant.
There was no assurance that we would even win that war, much less be the only one left standing afterward.

"Actually, I think we were at the top of the food chain probably since the reconstruction era ended after the civil war."

Of course we wer danni. Which is why Japan even thought about attacking Pearl Harbor, Germany sank hundreds of our merchant vessels bound for England. lol

"Well the Southern states considered them people when it came to apportionment, 3/5 of a person to be exact."

I always thought that the US Constitution mandated this, not the individual states.

There's no special role played by our system of government when it comes to ridding ourselves of slavery.
The very obvious proof is that many countries with many systems of government also ended slavery.
And all right around the same time.

#93 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2012-01-25 01:28 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Bullshit. I understand the economic realities might have tipped the scales, but to ignore the fact that many of our founders felt slavery was wrong in the first instance is too simplistic. Just as it is too simplistic to ascribe changes purely to non-economic motivations of conscience. As in all things, people are motivated sometimes toward the same goal for differing reasons. Such was the case in ending slavery. don't be such a hater....

I always thought that the US Constitution mandated this, not the individual states.

#115 | POSTED BY GHICKEY AT 2012-01-25 04:09 PM | REPLY | FLAG

true. i was a compromise for the North as Southerners wanted them to count as a whole person for apportionment. Slaves couldn't vote, but counting them as a whole would've given the South stronger representation, thereby strengthening the hand of slave owners and the southern way of life generally.

"I always thought that the US Constitution mandated this, not the individual states."

It was a compromise between northern and southern states made to induce the southern states to agree on a Constitution. The southerners wanted to count the slaves as people, but they were slaves and would not be allowed to vote, so the north didn't want to count them for apportionment purposes thus they worked out the 3/5 compromise. Slaves still couldn't vote or have rights but they counted as far as determining how many members of Congress slave states would have.

#118 | Posted by danni

It's ironic that those who opposed slavery were the ones to come up with the 3/5 clause.

However, as you seem to have intimated, it was done to try and limit slave-power as the number of representatives each state could have was determined by their population number.

The founding fathers ended it in 4 score and 7.

#29 | POSTED BY DR_DUDE2

No, it ended formally (and only formally) 4 scores and 7 years later.

As in all things, people are motivated sometimes toward the same goal for differing reasons. Such was the case in ending slavery. don't be such a hater....

Where do you see me hating anything?
All I pointed out is that the Founders felt slavery necessary.
It's perhaps curious but ultimately irrelevant that their propaganda says slavery is a violation of certain inalienable rights.
Just like it doesn't matter that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea isn't democratic, nor a republic, nor for the people.

You are completely clueless aren't you you fucking retard.

So your (sic) stating the ....

#36 | Posted by ClownShack at 2012-01-24 04:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Founding fathers are the guys that signed the deceleration of independence,........... a failure at American History.

#41 | Posted by ClownShack at 2012-01-24 04:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

"deceleration?" How fucking slow did it get? Or are you talking about Celery?

All I pointed out is that the Founders felt slavery necessary.

#121 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2012-01-25 04:57 PM | REPLY | FLAG

You're still be cynical. The Founders didn't feel it was necessary. Many just felt that they need to include provisions allowing for it knowing that if they didn't, there wouldn't have been any constitution signed, and our little experiment wouldn't have got off the ground. They kicked the can down the road, and Lincoln addressed it squarely.

The Founders didn't feel it was necessary. Many just felt that they need to include provisions allowing for it knowing that if they didn't, there wouldn't have been any constitution signed, and our little experiment wouldn't have got off the ground.

Sounds like they thought it necessary from your description. In addition, I doubt thery were willing to give up their own slaves. Washington certainly didn't, and neither did his wife. They were willing to allow others to do without slaves, but not themselves.

#124 | Posted by somoco at 2012-01-25 06:45 PM | Reply | Flag

The Green demands any mention of landfills be removed from all textbooks.

but overlook all the incidents of OWS behaving in pretentious and violent ways.
Strange...

old whiskey sour?

strange indeed.

-Ephesians 6:5-6 - Slaves, obey your human masters with fear and trembling; and do it with a sincere heart, as though you were serving Christ. Do this not only when they are watching you, because you want to gain their approval; but with all your heart do what God wants, as slaves of Christ.

Maybe them thar' tea-boggles will also demand references to slavery disappear the that thar' bible. Say Amen. 'Amen'.

A better use of time would be advocating that we teach children how to balance a checkbook and/or understand interest somewhere in their mandated years of state education.

Dr Dumb is a failure at reading comprehension and American History.
Translation -
Clownshit's ass has been owned and has no retort.

#86 | POSTED BY DR_DUMB2

Declaring yourself a victor is pretty pathetic, especially since you have yet to name which Founding Father freed the slaves.

So, which founding fathers freed the slaves??
I heard Obama blamed GWB for freeing the slaves.
I mean, wtf. Throw that on the fire with everything else.

#87 | POSTED BY DR_DUMB2

Non sequitur much?

Tell me, which one of those Slave Owning Founding Fathers Feeed The Salves??

I'm expecting you to provide an Actual answer.

Or you can admit you are a fucking pathetic lying piece of shit unaware of our history.

Clownshit blah blah blah...

#88 | POSTED BY DR_DUMB2

You have yet to back up your claim that the Founding Fathers freed the Slaves.

Really, tell us, which one of them did it?

Unless you realized none of those Slave Owners freed any slaves from anything.

Tell me dummy, which is it?

Yeah. Go figure.
Wouldn't support the liberal "America is evil" agenda too well would it?

#90 | POSTED BY DR_DUMB2

More lies...

America isn't evil. Lying republican fascists. Extreme fundamental Christians. Idiots like you. That's what evil.

Do you ever tell the truth??

I will check back tomorrow to see if you have the name of the founding father responsible for freeing the slaves.

Before Vermin shows up:

"That's what's evil."

although #123 is pretty FF! Damn autocorrect :D

I will check back tomorrow to see if you have the name of the founding father responsible for freeing the slaves.

Lincoln free'd the slaves genius.
Here's who he credit with laying the foundation for such freedom, basically all of them -
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

I doubt you've ever read these words as you've clearly been too busy traveling with the circus.

credited

Apparently clownshit can't read post #46 and insists on playing the liberal game of 'gotcha'. By his logic, Roosevelt had nothing to do with the Welfare State that Johnson kicked into high gear, since he was dead at the time. Roosevelt also had no responsibility in ending WWII, since he was also dead when that happened as well.

So all of those liberal Roosevelt worshipers are morons. Like Clownshit himself.

Lincoln was a FF?

Tea Party racist??? Nah.

#1 | Posted by danni

LOL!!

As usual, Danni didn't read the article--just the headline.

More lies...

America isn't evil. Lying republican fascists. Extreme fundamental Christians. Idiots like you. That's what evil.

Do you ever tell the truth??

I will check back tomorrow to see if you have the name of the founding father responsible for freeing the slaves.

#132 | Posted by ClownShack

ClownShack, (if that is your real name), Did you know that the "Progressive" movement can be defined as an evil religion based on your definition? I can easily say that Liberalism in America posses the same qualities that a Christian Bible group. "If you are outside of what we believe to be fact, then you are shunned and labelled evil"

For example, if you say that you want to preserve the truth about the founding fathers, you are a racist. Many Liberals have said that very thing on this thread.

I want to know the truth about such men as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, etc. (The names! He's saying their NAMES!!!)

I'll take the good with the bad. What I won't take is uneducated jackasses in our school system using all the bad qualities to take down our great country.

Am I wrong to believe that?

"However, as you seem to have intimated, it was done to try and limit slave-power as the number of representatives each state could have was determined by their population number."

Slave-power???? There was no such thing. It was an attempt by Southern slave owners to increase their own power by counting the slaves they owned to determine how many Congressmen would represent their state but that didn't convey any right to those slaves at all, if anything it gave slave owners more power to fight the abolition of slavery in Congress.

"However, as you seem to have intimated, it was done to try and limit slave-power as the number of representatives each state could have was determined by their population number."

Slave-power???? There was no such thing. It was an attempt by Southern slave owners to increase their own power by counting the slaves they owned to determine how many Congressmen would represent their state but that didn't convey any right to those slaves at all, if anything it gave slave owners more power to fight the abolition of slavery in Congress.

#140 | Posted by danni

Danni, you have to remember that the political forums among the Common Man didn't exist at the time.

The Southerners were losing their wealth and their livelihoods and the Northern States did not care. They were desperate to do anything and if I were a Southern land owner at the time, I think I would have been doing the same.

You see, a fact that you may have missed, is that the Northern textile giants were willing to put the Southerners, their own countrymen, out of business and then go and buy cotton from countries that still had slaves. If fact, that's kind of what they did after the war.

Also, 10 to 30 years after this war, you started seeing mechanization and automation in the growing of cotton and sugar cane that eliminated the need for slavery.

Feel better about having a war that would have been completely unnecessary if the Republicans of the North would have been a little more thoughtful?

About political forums and knowing this above, do you think that the Civil War would have happened if the Internet (or similar rapid communication) existed in the 1850's?

I say no.

Dan,

I was trying to say what you just posted.

#134 | POSTED BY DR_DUMB2

The Gettysburg address? Yea, I've read it.

Abraham Lincon wasn't a Founding Father Dr Dumb.

You ready to admit yet that none of the Founding Fathers freed the slaves?

Really, just admit you were wrong. If you can. I bet your pride won't allow it.

The Founding Fathers, they OWNED SLAVES!! Wow! Did I just blow your mind? They didn't considers their African Slaves as people, thus, they weren't included in the protections provided by the constitution. It wasn't until decades later when, for purely political gain, the slaves were counted as 3/5 of a human being, they weren't allowed to vote, but the southern states could claim them as part of their population. It wasn't until 1863, when Lincon freed the slaves, even though his main concern was keeping America United, not actually freeing the slaves.
The Founding Fathers established America in 1776, the Slaves were Freed after 1863, and not all at once either. And it wasn't until after the civil rights movement (1960s) that they stopped being considered second class citizens.

Dr Dumb, I'm not even looking for your responce anymore, you clearly have no (NO) understanding of the History of the United States. All your posts are a waste of time to read. Go get a basic education before engaging in conversation.

Apparently clownshit...insists on playing the liberal game of 'gotcha'.

#136 | POSTED BY DR_DUMB2

I'm playing Gotcha games with you? What are you? Sarah Palin? Sorry if American History is a Gotcha game.

You sure are Dumb.

What I won't take is uneducated jackasses in our school system using all the bad qualities to take down our great country.

How does pointing out that many of the Founders owned slaves take down our great country?
Should Japan not teach about their atrocities in China since it might take down their great country?
As it turns out, they don't. You think that's the right thing to do?
Well, okay, if that's how you feel. Censor history because it might be uncomfortable.
What a coward you are.

Tea Party History:

During WW2, the Japanese Americans were treated with dignity and respect.

Slavery was a minor issue in some rouge Southern states that the Founding Fathers worked tirelessly to end.

Vietnam was not lost; we simply decided it was not worth fighting any longer and actually won a moral victory.

JFK and Lincoln were not shot, contrary to Liberal history books. There has never been anyone who ever wanted to kill a US President because the office held in THAT high of esteem internationally.

All former Presidents did not die, but retired to a resort located near Mount Rushmore. US Presidents are appointed by the will of G-d and therefore never die.

The Civil War is called that because it was fought civilly, without any deaths or causalities on either side. In typical American fashion, they talked it out.

Really, just admit you were wrong. If you can. I bet your pride won't allow it.

Tell me Clownshit, have you stopped beating your wife yet?
It's real easy to play the gotcha game. Especially after you've been owned.

How does pointing out that many of the Founders owned slaves take down our great country?

Read any of Clownshit's posts.
It isn't that pointing it out is a problem. The problem is that the 'America Sucks' crowd doesn't understand that it was part of the fabric of the country at the time and that the founders were born into that system.

People like Snoofy can have an intellectual debate about it. People like Clownshit just run around yelling 'see! see! see! The founders had slaves! America sucks! You're a racist and I'm not so I should have more friends!" etc. etc. etc.

Then of course when you point out the good work that the founders did, and the benefits that everyone received 87 years later, he doesn't comprehend it. He can't fathom it. It's beyond his intellectual capacity.

So, at the end of the day, it takes a bunch of people in Tennessee to force the educational system to explicitly point it out because of people like Clownshit.

"The Southerners were losing their wealth and their livelihoods and the Northern States did not care. They were desperate to do anything and if I were a Southern land owner at the time, I think I would have been doing the same.

You see, a fact that you may have missed, is that the Northern textile giants were willing to put the Southerners, their own countrymen, out of business and then go and buy cotton from countries that still had slaves. If fact, that's kind of what they did after the war."

And you think that justified extending the institution of slavery???
That's fucking sick. Very revealing about you.

It isn't that pointing it out is a problem. The problem is that the 'America Sucks' crowd doesn't understand that it was part of the fabric of the country at the time and that the founders were born into that system.

I'm sorry, but I'm still not getting it. Why is it so offensive to you to point out the "fabric of the country at the time" was incredibly unfair and unjust, not to mention blatantly racist, and that the Founders perpetuated some of the worst of those conditions?

Are you mad because people think America Sucks? What's it to ya? People can think what they want.

Do you get all bent out of shape when Michael Medved idiotically calls this the "greatest nation on G-d's green earth?"

I'm sorry, but I'm still not getting it. Why is it so offensive to you to point out the "fabric of the country at the time" was incredibly unfair and unjust, not to mention blatantly racist, and that the Founders perpetuated some of the worst of those conditions?

It isn't. Just give them credit for creating a country that eventually ended it. As I mentioned, it didn't end BEFORE America was formed. It ended because America was formed.

Are you mad because people think America Sucks? What's it to ya? People can think what they want.

No, but it's aggravating that people that benefit from America will fight against America at every opportunity. America has issues and can always be improved. But they're not interested in fixing the problems or improving the country. They're interested in exploiting it. For example, they'll use the fact that America guarantees religious freedom to support the Muslims who want to implement Sharia law. Or They'll use the fact that America guarantees free speech to burn the flag. Or they'll use the fact that (some of) the founders had slaves to support a position that America was no better than Nazi Germany, etc. etc. etc. Or they'll come to the country illegally because their own country sucks and then protest American immigration & welfare policy.
The list is endless.

Do you get all bent out of shape when Michael Medved idiotically calls this the "greatest nation on G-d's green earth?"
No. But Clownshit does.

"It isn't. Just give them credit for creating a country that eventually ended it. As I mentioned, it didn't end BEFORE America was formed. It ended because America was formed."

That must be why it took the US about thirty more years than it took England to end slavery.

"1834: The British Slavery Abolition Act comes into force, abolishing slavery throughout most of the British Empire. Legally frees 700,000 in West Indies, 20,000 in Mauritius, 40,000 in South Africa. The exceptions, territories controlled by the Honourable East India Company and Ceylon, were liberated in 1843 when they became part of the British Empire."

What I won't take is uneducated jackasses in our school system using all the bad qualities to take down our great country.

How does pointing out that many of the Founders owned slaves take down our great country?
Should Japan not teach about their atrocities in China since it might take down their great country?
As it turns out, they don't. You think that's the right thing to do?
Well, okay, if that's how you feel. Censor history because it might be uncomfortable.
What a coward you are.

#145 | Posted by snoofy

I think you didn't read my post. Go back and read it. You will see that what I said is that I prefer to know the whole truth, not just the good and not just the bad.

Did you really miss that?

Your point has no meaning.

#148 | Posted by dr_dude2

Clownshack is not a student of history and we can all see that.

Snoofy is probably playing the gotcha game, but is really bad at it. He doesn't realize that anyone can simply read the thread and see that he's wrong.

I'm sorry, but I'm still not getting it. Why is it so offensive to you to point out the "fabric of the country at the time" was incredibly unfair and unjust, not to mention blatantly racist,
#150 | Posted by snoofy

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

Snoofy thinks that the "Founding Fathers" invented this neat little tool called "Slavery" and were the only people in the history of mankind to every use it.

I can just see them now...
"Hey fellas, they got these negro dudes in Africa that ain't got nothin to do. Let's go get 'em over here and put 'em to work! Yea!!"

Snoofy,

just one question.

Was the United States of America the only country using slaves?

"1834: The British Slavery Abolition Act comes into force, abolishing slavery throughout most of the British Empire. Legally frees 700,000 in West Indies, 20,000 in Mauritius, 40,000 in South Africa. The exceptions, territories controlled by the Honourable East India Company and Ceylon, were liberated in 1843 when they became part of the British Empire."

#152 | Posted by danni

But they kept trading with countries that still had slavery.

Also, look up India around... let's see Gandhi's time...

Eddie,

just one question.

Was the United States of America built on the backs of slaves?

#155 | POSTED BY EDDIE

You have a valid point. Although, it's more like there were some strong Africans in Africa whose tribes were capable of capturing and enslaving other Africans from other tribes and then sold them to European explorers who then turned into traders.

It's no doubt that Africans sold out other Africans in the name of money or trade. Just as there is no doubt that Africans have slaughtered other Africans whole sale all in the name of ethnic cleansing and religion.

Yes, Ed - other cultures (including those of African origin) are guilty of using slavery for economic gain; just as much if not more so than the neo-Americans of the 17th and 18th centuries. Although, this fact does not mitigate the moral impropriety on behalf of the neo-Americans.

That slavery not only existed but helped build the economy of a country boasting the tenants of freedom and democracy is one of the best historical examples of irony. This historical fact should not be wiped from American text books.

This historical fact should not be wiped from American text books.
#159 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Ed,

This was meant as a comment for the thread in general and was not directed specifically as a response to your post.

I'm not trying to put words into your mouth. Apologies.

No, but it's aggravating that people that benefit from America will fight against America at every opportunity. America has issues and can always be improved. But they're not interested in fixing the problems or improving the country. They're interested in exploiting it.

So far, so good. You're talking about how the 1% has co-opted both parties, and lobbies Congress for sweetheart deals like retroactive immunity for illegal telecom wiretapping, lower tax rates for dividend checks than paychecks, and making it illegal for Medicare to negotiate drug prices, right? Real economic issues that matter, and point out the vast disparity in the handouts our government provides if you're very wealthy or just a regular person?

For example, they'll use the fact that America guarantees religious freedom to support the Muslims who want to implement Sharia law.
Uh oh. Where is this happening, and how is it any different than what Christians try to do whenever they get the chance with Intelligent Design and abortion restrictions? And what does this have to do with anything that really matters?

Or They'll use the fact that America guarantees free speech to burn the flag.
A piece of cloth made in China catches fire, and you become aggravated? Someone speaks in a way that you find offensive... I suggest you exercise your freedom to ignore them. But again, what does this have to do with anything that really matters? Flag burning is an actual issue with you???

Or they'll use the fact that (some of) the founders had slaves to support a position that America was no better than Nazi Germany
If you were walking the Trail of Tears, you'd probably feel that way. So what if people point out that America engaged in some ethnic cleansing of the Injuns? What does this have to do with anything that really matters?

You must be living the life of Reilly if the issues that matter to you are fear of Sharia law, flag burning, and pointing out America has some skeletons in the closet.

There's not a single economic concern on your list.

Flag burning? That is just crazy, man. Anybody should be able to burn a flag. That is a no-brainer.

You must be living the life of Reilly if the issues that matter to you are fear of Sharia law, flag burning, and pointing out America has some skeletons in the closet.

So far so good. And thanks for making all of my points. It's no big deal that we exploit our Freedoms to bring down the country that provides those freedoms. After all, we are all evil for taking away land from the Cherokee Indians that fought with the British. Because we're evil that income taxes for the poor (who don't pay income taxes) are unfair. Because the flag doesn't mean anything as it is just a piece of Chinese cotton. We're all evil because we don't spend our energy ensuring that Medicare is allowed to fuck up free market pricing for prescription drugs.

I simply can't fathom why these people in Tennessee are fed up.

Was the United States of America built on the backs of slaves?

Wow. That must be why the North was so much richer than the south. That must be why 99% of the wealth of the nation was created after slavery.

Whatever wealth the south had prior to 1865 was pretty much destroyed during the war. The southern wealth that was built on the backs of slaves was gone.

But don't let facts get in the way. Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan, Kanye West, Bob Johnson, are all victims of slavery and haven't been able to realize the benefits of living in America. As are all of the other 109,000 black millionaires in the U.S. (According to Darrick H Scruggs).
Why, because the founding fathers had slaves of course.
And, because we don't let Medicare negotiate (i.e. dictate) drug prices.

#139 | POSTED BY EDDIE

Yes Eddie, my name in real life is ClownShack, my fathers name was Homie D'Clown and my mother's name is Harpo. We are a family of traveling Clowns.

As to your statement. It's unfocused. I'm not sure what your point is

As far as the founding fathers, telling the truth about how history progressed is the greatest justice you can do them. They were great people and at the time blacks were considered property and native Americans were savages, that doesn't make them worse as individuals.

#146 | POSTED BY KANREI

FF! ^_^

Sadly though, I'm sure Dr Dumb and Special Eddy think you are actually reporting factual events.

#148 | POSTED BY DR_DUMB2

More lies. Dr Dumb you have done nothing but lie and show your ignorance throught out the thread.

Please link anywhere, ANYWHERE, where I ever posted that America sucks. You won't be able to.

You are a liar, you have yet to name a Single Founding Father responsible for Freeing The Slaves.

And best yet! You have Special Eddie as a cheerleader! You are set girl!!

Please keep posting. You're only shoving your head further up your ass.

"Why, because the founding fathers had slaves of course.
And, because we don't let Medicare negotiate (i.e. dictate) drug prices."

I don't know what gives but this idiot has a thing for the prohibition against Medicare negotiating lower drug prices and thereby saving taxpayers and seniors $$$$. I don't try to understand idiots like him, they just are, there is no explanation as to why God thinks they should exist.

Just give them credit for creating a country that eventually ended [slavery]. As I mentioned, [slavery] didn't end BEFORE America was formed. [Slavery] ended because America was formed.

#151 | POSTED BY DR_DUMB2

Are you that rediculously stupid, close minded, and naive??

Slavery still exists, it didn't end because America was formed.

You're too stupid to read #143. You're to stupid to understand the significance of history. You are a waste of time.

I'm sure you'll have some brilliant wife beating comment.

Clownshack is not a student of history and we can all see that.

#154 | POSTED BY EDDIE

This coming from DRs least informed poster. Do you ever have a point to make or are you just flooding the DR with stupid?

What's you point Eddie? Why are you so fucking stupid??

Since you are Dr Dumb's cheerleader, please, answer the question he's been unable to, which founding father freed the slaves?

Come on Special Eddie, are you as stupid as your buddy Dr Dumb??

That slavery not only existed but helped build the economy of a country boasting the tenants of freedom and democracy is one of the best historical examples of irony. This historical fact should not be wiped from American text books.

#159 | Posted by rstybeach11

No one is saying that. It's a Liberal interpretation.

"The Southerners were losing their wealth and their livelihoods and the Northern States did not care. They were desperate to do anything and if I were a Southern land owner at the time, I think I would have been doing the same.

You see, a fact that you may have missed, is that the Northern textile giants were willing to put the Southerners, their own countrymen, out of business and then go and buy cotton from countries that still had slaves. If fact, that's kind of what they did after the war."

And you think that justified extending the institution of slavery???
That's fucking sick. Very revealing about you.

#149 | Posted by danni

I don't think I said that, but you did.

You don't lose arguments very gracefully, do you, Danni?

Anyway, Hindsight is 20/20, isn't it? If they (the Northern States and the Southern States) together used the money and the lost lives spent on the war, instead on buying the slaves and setting them free and helping the Southern Industry retool, don't you think that would have been better?

Instead, you get on your morally superior high horse and preach down to us...

Have you yet figured out that you are defending the Darth Cheneys of the mid-1800's?

You still don't understand what I'm talking about, do you?

ClownShack, I think you are drinking heavily this afternoon.

When I point out that you have but a small clue of what you are talking about, instead of proving me wrong you become belligerent and abusive as the idiot loser at the corner bar who's had too much.

#172

Problem is Eddie, you haven't pointed anything out. You have yet to disprove or correct anything I have said.

So, tell me, if you know better than I do, the name of the founding father that freed the slaves.

It's such a straight forward question. I'm astounded you and Dr Dumb can't back up your claim to know better than I.

Until you respond to that question I'll assume you are a joke and disregard all your other posts as confused chaos.

Clown,

You said that Republicans are fascist and Christians are evil. I answer you with "Progressives are a religion" and are evil too, using your logic.

I also pointed out that you are drinking heavily and being aggressive and belligerent.

I am not arguing that the "Founding Fathers" freed the slaves. No one is arguing that.

You are painfully ignorant to history of events as well as culture.

Why don't you google Jefferson's view of slavery.

Please do this or go away.

You do realize that you are being pwnd by the "dumbest person on the Retort" don't you?

#174

How are you owning me dumb dumb?

You said that Republicans are fascist and Christians are evil. I answer you with "Progressives are a religion" and are evil too, using your logic.

What logic are you speaking of? My opinion? Great!

I am not arguing that the "Founding Fathers" freed the slaves. No one is arguing that.

Wrong, Dr Dumb has said several times in this thread that our founding fathers freed the slaves.
Why you chose to agree with him is beyond me. Since you have just realized none of them did.

You are painfully ignorant to history of events as well as culture.

Because of? Based on? Your opinion? You have yet to disprove anything I've written.

Why don't you google Jefferson's view of slavery.

Jefferson didn't free the slaves.

You do realize that you are being pwnd by the "dumbest person on the Retort" don't you?

I do find it dumb to proclaim yourself victor of an argument you are losing.

Wrong, Dr Dumb has said several times in this thread that our founding fathers freed the slaves.

No he didn't. You said he did.

Because of? Based on? Your opinion?

But, but, but...

"Why don't you google Jefferson's view of slavery."

Jefferson didn't free the slaves.

Again, I didn't say that. I asked you to google Jefferson's views on slavery [in America]

Until you can say something useful, this is useless bickering.

*sigh*

Wrong, Dr Dumb has said several times in this thread that our founding fathers freed the slaves.
No he didn't. You said he did.
#176 | POSTED BY EDDIE

Clownshit - I did. You learn to read.
It didn't say remove references to slavery.
It said to stop denegrating the men who ended it.
Here - No portrayal of minority experience in the history which actually occurred shall obscure the experience or contributions of the Founding Fathers
#33 | POSTED BY DR_DUMB2

That's just one instance. The founding fathers did absolutely Nothing to contribute to ending slavery.

How am I ignorant of history Special Eddie? You have yet to explain where I am incorrect.

That's just one instance. The founding fathers did absolutely Nothing to contribute to ending slavery.

How am I ignorant of history Special Eddie? You have yet to explain where I am incorrect.

#177 | Posted by ClownShack

Again!

Google Jefferson's views on slavery in America

You didn't, did you?

If you did, you wouldn't be answering me in an ignorant way.

Two really good articles:

Hate to burst your bubble, there ClownShack, but your hero, Darwin, wrote that Africans were inferior and risked extinction.

Where the fuck is Danni?

That little shit got some 'splainen to do!

#178

I read your articles. Nothing new. And it's a reason he didn't sign the constitution.

There's also the rumor of Jeffersons affairs with one of his slaves.

From your own article, even though he was conflicted with slavery and believed it to be mostly wrong, he only freed 17 of his 200 slaves.

All the founding fathers had slavers. They did nothing to stop slavery from continuing.

Tell me why, after just breaking free from the British, they didn't feel it was necessary to extend that freedom to their slaves.

Why, when the constitution of the united states starts off with "We the People" were the African slaves not considered people?

Darwin is my hero?? He's a smart guy, but hero isn't a word a use lightly.

Also, Darwin is only human, not like your all mighty God and his magic.

Heres something fun:

Exodus 21:20-21 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

Seems the bible is just fine with slavery.

you are slowly getting it.

You haven't yet, but if you have an open mind and try to putting yourself in that time, knowing what the people of the time knew, you may begin to understand.

You are ignoring that Darwin believed, as Jefferson did, that Africans are inferior to Europeans and are not capable of surviving outside of the bonds of slavery nor would it be practical to move them back to Africa, a place they had no knowledge of.

You said that they did nothing to move toward ending slavery. Jefferson ended the slave trade in America.

you are slowly getting it. You are slowly being schooled. Every time you answer me, you learn a little more.

ClownShack, Darwin wrote a few books on the Theory of Evolution.

Just thought I'd throw that out there just in case you missed it.

You still haven't figured out that the founding fathers were slave owners that didn't consider their slaves to be more than property. Even Jefferson who realized slavery was wrong and was sleeping with one of his slaves didn't actually free his slaves.

It wasn't until Lincon and the civil war occurred that slavery became illegal. Also, ending slavery wasn't the primary goal of the civil war.

The statement that the founding fathers contributed to freeing the slaves is absolutely incorrect.

Also, thanks for the tip on who Darwin was. I though he was that fish with legs I see on the back of cars.

After all, we are all evil for taking away land from the Cherokee Indians that fought with the British.
There is not a single Indian tribe we did not take land from. Cherry-picking the Cherokee is an act of desperation. Also, we are allies with the British these days. Buried the hatchet, you might say. Are we allies with the Cherokee?

Because we're evil that income taxes for the poor (who don't pay income taxes) are unfair.
The comprehensive tax burden in this country is regressive. Federal income tax (and the State income taxes keyed to IRS rates) is the only tax that is not.

Because the flag doesn't mean anything as it is just a piece of Chinese cotton.
The Chinese-made USA flag equals jobs and capital departing America. Flying it is like a misdemeanor-level act of treason.

We're all evil because we don't spend our energy ensuring that Medicare is allowed to fuck up free market pricing for prescription drugs.
There is no free market for drugs. They are highly regulated by the FDA, the DEA, and your local pharmacist.

I simply can't fathom why these people in Tennessee are fed up.
Well, if you are any example, it's because everything they think they know is wrong.
Then, when faced with a reality that doesn't jibe with mistaken expectations, they naturally become frustrated.

And then, they try to pass laws to re-define reality to match their ill-conceived notions.
Funny stuff coming from a bunch of "small government" conservatives.

You still haven't figured out that the founding fathers were slave owners that didn't consider their slaves to be more than property.
#185 | Posted by ClownShack

Actually, that was a fairly common belief of the time, unfortunately. Didn't I point out that your hero Darwin wrote about it? That's the way it was.

How can you say that I didn't realize Jefferson... wait a minute... You knew that I knew... unless... AH!! unless you're... You're an idiot aren't you?

LOL

The statement that the founding fathers contributed to freeing the slaves is absolutely incorrect.

No it's not, dumbass. Do you read selectively? Jefferson ended the Slave Trade. There were many others around him who believed that they should divest in slavery.

Tell you what. You get edumacated about people who formed this country and then we'll talk... hum? I'm getting tired of schooling you.

Funny stuff coming from a bunch of "small government" conservatives.

#186 | Posted by snoofy

Well, he's right and you're wrong. Everything you said is wrong. I can't even begin to argue against such contradicting bickering.

This thread is shut down.

You are a liar, you have yet to name a Single Founding Father responsible for Freeing The Slaves.

And best yet! You have Special Eddie as a cheerleader! You are set girl!!

Clownshit (Homey's boy) is a wonderful example as to why adult shouldn't have advanced discussions with children. Zero comprehension (and lot's of whining.) Especially with circus children. It's a waste of time.

I don't know what gives but this idiot has a thing for the prohibition against Medicare negotiating lower drug prices and thereby saving taxpayers and seniors $$$$. I don't try to understand idiots like him, they just are, there is no explanation as to why God thinks they should exist.

Government has no place negotiating (i.e. dictating) prices for free market products. Except implants of course. They should be free to any woman who wants one.
Then again, "I just am".

You haven't yet, but if you have an open mind and try to putting yourself in that time, knowing what the people of the time knew, you may begin to understand.

Putting your mind 'in that time' requires that you have a mind to begin with. Clownshit doesn't. He just regurgitates the bullshit his public school teachers told him.

There is not a single Indian tribe we did not take land from. Cherry-picking the Cherokee is an act of desperation. Also, we are allies with the British these days. Buried the hatchet, you might say. Are we allies with the Cherokee?

Sure, because the Indians 'owned' all of the land to begin with right?
I picked the Cherokee because I thought that's who you were referencing. I am not going to go into the history of the Cherokee because, in large part, your correct that their lands were taken as a result of war. But the Indians attacked Americans in many many cases - see Fort Sims in reference to my comment. There were many attempts to co-exist between Europeans and Indians and they often ended up fighting. Sorry that those white fuckheads won.

The comprehensive tax burden in this country is regressive. Federal income tax (and the State income taxes keyed to IRS rates) is the only tax that is not.
The comprehensive tax systems is fucked up. See Ron Paul. Regressive or not, your people aint payin'.

And then, they try to pass laws to re-define reality to match their ill-conceived notions.
Funny stuff coming from a bunch of "small government" conservatives.
The only ill conceived notion that is being harbored is yours. The concept that the be-all, end-all government can solve complex problems has shown itself to be false over and over again. Choco Carter in the White House is standing proof. He's the Messiah that was supposed to change Washington. All he's done has been to double down on every stupie failed policy of his predecessors in both parties. The same ones that are collapsing Europe. Many of those policies are rooted in the cultural - America is Evil - bullshit that you run around beating the drum for. The country has never been perfect and we've struggled with living up to our ideals throughout our history. But the country isn't evil and has provided a foundation of cultural freedom and empowerment that much of the rest of the world has built upon.

#187 | POSTED BY EDDIE

You fucking idiot.

What does Darwin have to do with the Founding Fathers being slave owners? Nothing? Okay next.

Jefferson DIDN'T free any slaves. Do You Understand? He was a slave owner!! Possibly the biggest hypocrite of them all since he realized slavery was abhorrent yet still kept slaves.

It's real simple, try to keep up, our Founding Fathers were genuinely coragiuos people that fought for freedom from the British and establish America. But they were also slave owners which was commen at the time. They didn't consider Africans to be humans and therefore were all slave owners. None of them, ended slavery in their lifetimes.

#189 - #192 Dr Dumb

The stupid is do strong with you. You are so painfully bigoted and ignorant.

So according to you, the founding fathers freed the slaves and fuck the native Americans for not handing over their lands and lining up for genocide.

Brilliant!!

Sure, because the Indians 'owned' all of the land to begin with right?

That shit just doesn't write itself. It reeks with bigoted ignorance.

Dr Dumb, you are what's wrong with the tea party. A bunch of ignorant mother fuckers that don't value education at all and scream bloody ignorance until all other thought is drown out.

#187 | POSTED BY EDDIE

You fucking idiot.

What does Darwin have to do with the Founding Fathers being slave owners? Nothing? Okay next.
#193 | Posted by ClownShack

LOL!!!

Really? Did you read any of the articles I sent you. It's graduate level reading... probably too much for you.

Dr. Dude is right. You are a child. I think my IQ went down just talking to you.

Ba-bye.

Dr Dumb, you are what's wrong with the tea party.

Interesting. Especially since I am not a member. In fact, I don't even know where the nearest chapter is. Nor am I a Republican. Once again you dazzle us with your intellectual skills.

Way to go genius.

The comprehensive tax burden in this country is regressive. Federal income tax (and the State income taxes keyed to IRS rates) is the only tax that is not.
The comprehensive tax systems is fucked up. See Ron Paul. Regressive or not, your people aint payin'.

Ain't payin'? Seems you're choosing to ignore payroll tax, sales tax, gasoline tax, 9/11 airport security fee, telephone tax... You right-wing tax whiners are really, really good at pretending income tax is the only tax. As it turns out, that's a lie.

A flat fifty cent tax on a gallon of gas equals a ten times higher tax rate when you earn $10/hr instead of $100/hr. You get that, right?

#195

Can't answer a simple question Special Eddie? It's ok, you are just too dense. You deflected every chance you got.

Dr Dumb

You are an ignorant bigot.

You have deflected and ignored one simple question this whole thread.

In your world the founding fathers ended slavery and Native Anericans are at fault for not getting the fuck out of the way of the Europen settlers.

What a delusional sicko you are.

#195

Can't answer a simple question Special Eddie? It's ok, you are just too dense. You deflected every chance you got.

#198 | Posted by ClownShack

LOL! You are either stupid or full of shit.

You said that the Founding Fathers did nothing to free the slaves and I said that no one is arguing that. Dr. Dude even answered you with pretty much the same.

I also added that Jefferson stopped the slave trade. You didn't acknowledge that.

I gave you every chance, Clown, but you are still behaving like a ignorant moron.

I think your point is that the Founding Fathers didn't free the slaves therefore...

What? You made no point after that.

I also told you to reference Charles Darwin who was almost a contemporary with the Founding Fathers in so much as to compare and contrast the general feeling and belief of Africans of time (as wrong as it is to us today),

But not only did you ignore this, but you stupid asked me what it has to do with the discussion.

Darwin is highly respected as a 19th Century scientist and is often revered as a modern hero against organized religion.

Should I continue the beating or do you begin to understand

Dr Dumb

You are an ignorant bigot.

You have deflected and ignored one simple question this whole thread.

In your world the founding fathers ended slavery and Native Anericans are at fault for not getting the fuck out of the way of the Europen settlers.

What a delusional sicko you are.

#199 | Posted by ClownShack

You're a liar, Clown.

He never said these things. If it makes you feel better about yourself, go ahead and continue to be ignorant.

Why is it bigoted to want to preserve the truth and not sway it to your bigoted opinion.

Clown, do you realize that ignoring the truth in order to suppress a group could be considered bigoted?

Should I continue the beating or do you begin to understand

#200 | POSTED BY EDDIE

Continue to tickle me with a feather Eddie. Your explanations are hilarious.

So even though slavery has been around since before the time of the Egyptian empire, somehow Darwin is the cause of our founding fathers owning slaves. Yea okay!

Changing history is wrong Eddie. Of course you don't understand that because you don't value what we can learn from the errors of the past.

The founding fathers were who they were, and one of the many things they were is slave owners.

Also, since you are riding dr dumb's dick this whole thread. The founding fathers didn't end slavery, nor did they contribute to it.

Ending the slave trade was inconsequential since by that time the number of African slaves in America were self sustaining.

#201 | POSTED BY EDDIE

You are so stupid Eddie. It's like talking to a brick wall. No wonder you are considered such a fucking joke by everyone.

He never said these things. If it makes you feel better about yourself, go ahead and continue to be ignorant.

Why would I make up what he said? I don't have a vendetta against Dr Dumb. You clearly haven't read (or understood) what he wrote. Try reading his posts again.

Try to understand why changing history is a fucked up notion.

Founding fathers freed the slaves? Nope.
Founding fathers contributed to freeing the slaves? Nope.
European settlers "intruded" on the native Americans? If intruded is a new term for genocide maybe.
Sure, because the Indians 'owned' all of the land to begin with right? Posted by Dr Dumb - #192 Yes they did (though Native Americans didnt believe anyone could "own" something that was never there's), they were living there for generations before the European settlers arrived.

It's history, it was recorded as events transpired. Now, over 200 years later, stupid Tea Party morons feel like it needs to be changed because somehow they know better? Give me a fucking break!!

Of course, I don't expect you to comprehend any of this, just write "Duh Duh Duh" in your next posting. It will mean about the same as all your other posts.

You are so stupid Eddie.

I'm not reading anything from you anymore.

try to bring this into a debate format is bringing my IQ down.

You lost the argument a long time ago and have had every chance to argue real points, but you want to argue with lies.

The point of the article is that the "Tea Party" people want all of the history included in the curriculum about America's Founders, not just the bad points.

Ok? You disagree with this, that's why you're a liar.

That's why you lost.

Again stupid.

No one is arguing your points about the Founding Fathers did not free the slaves.

Because of this, you want to not include anything about the Founders of America in textbooks in American schools?

Can you just simply answer that question?

It's history, it was recorded as events transpired. Now, over 200 years later, stupid Tea Party morons feel like it needs to be changed because somehow they know better? Give me a fucking break!!

#203 | Posted by ClownShack

Again!!!!

How stupid can you be?

The "Tea Party" people are saying to include everything about the Founding Fathers not just the bad things...

OK?

How can you argue this?

If you were on the school board arguing in your dumbass way, you'd be fired.

You don't read the arguments. You don't listen to reason.

You hate America and you hate White people. You are a bigot and I hate bigots who can't see how f&cked up they are. You are a very dangerous asshole.

The "Tea Party" people are saying to include everything about the Founding Fathers not just the bad things...

#206 | Posted by Eddie at 2012-01-28 04:07 PM | Reply | Flag

You should read the header. That isn't what the Tea Party is saying at all. They don't want everything included. They want the fact that the Founing Fathers held slaves. Washington and Jefferson included.

What isn't included? The texts speak the truth---what would you like them to say?

From the article:

"The thing we need to focus on about the founders is that, given the social structure of their time, they were revolutionaries who brought liberty into a world where it hadn't existed, to everybody (not all equally instantly)" and it was their progress that we need to look at"

Tea Party racist??? Nah.

#1 | Posted by danni

Just to finish out this thread that Danni started and her intent was to point out how the Tea Party are racists.

All she managed to do is to expose herself as a bigoted racist and drew in other ignorant bigots who hate white people.

Thank you Danni.

Job well done.

The Tea Party folks referenced in the article are not bigots or racist. They just want to preserve the truth as it is.

Thanks for making it abundantly clear Danni.

Because of this, you want to not include anything about the Founders of America in textbooks in American schools?
Can you just simply answer that question?

#205 | POSTED BY EDDIE

Your argument is unnecessary because none of their accomplishment and achievements are being omitted.