This is well known. The strategy is to kill the cancer faster than the patient. Better drugs are here and are being developed. Give generously to fund research if you care.

Wow Bruce, I never expected that response from YOU. I thought you like drugs (of the "prescribed" sort). So now you're acknowledging that chemo might be worse than the disease? Cool.

Cancer Drugs Cause Cancer

Considering that neither Reitze nor any bumbling idiot at Infowars has the faintest fucking clue about molecular biology, this sort of drivel should be expected.

The fact of the matter is that for many cancers, DNA-damaging agents offer the best chance of survival. They're not miracle drugs, and no one pretends that they are. They're crude methods of killing rapidly-dividing cells. If you die of a cancer caused by one of these drugs, it is only because you gained several years of life by treating the cancer that you initially had. Don't take the drugs, and you won't live long enough to get cancer a second time.

Quite a few newer drugs target the aberrant signaling pathways that are present in tumor cells. They have their own sets of drawbacks, though. Most can only be used on specific cancers with specific mutations in specific genes... and they can be defeated by the evolution of resistance by the tumor.

Of course, there will always be schizophrenic idiots who think this is evidence of some vast conspiracy...

Cancer Drugs Cause Cancer

It's official.

Alex Jones has finally divided by zero.

It's quite comical to see people finding evidence for some sort of malicious conspiracy in things so obvious and unsurprising. These same idiots would frantically scream "insulin causes hypoglycemia!" from every rooftop, thinking they have just stumbled across the secret to some vast conspiracy.

Hell, they probably think that shapeshifting lizards parked the sun in its current location for the sole purpose of giving us all melanoma.

Dr Icepick frames the issue eloquently. It is complicated and increases in life expectancy are hard-won.

I watched the first three minutes of the video. If you care, educate yourself. This video is amateur conspiratorial fear propaganda. The men who made this video should be convicted of murder.

I watched the first three minutes of the video.

You do realize you are never gonna get those three minutes back, don't you?

The men who made this video should be convicted of murder.

Murder?

Brainslaughter, certainly.

Attack with a blunt argument with intent to cause mental harm.

Feh, if Spud wants quality crazy Spud likes to go to George Noory and Coast2Coast.

Ed Dames remote viewing Obama's birthplace in Kenya was a classic.

David Icke is always fun when discussing lizard people.

The time cube guy in a pinch.

But Alex freaking Jones?

Meh, life is too short.

Be Well.

Hell, they probably think that shapeshifting lizards parked the sun in its current location for the sole purpose of giving us all melanoma.

Or maybe that's just what they want us to think?

*shakes head*

Right, Maybe a little less C2C this week.

"Ed Dames remote viewing Obama's birthplace in Kenya was a classic."

Man, is he still getting air time on C2C? I haven't listened since the 90s.

"/Not sayin' it's aliens..."

He comes to the interview dressed, hair refuses to cooperate.

/scumbag haircut.

#8 Bruce, if you really believe that please elaborate and share your technical reasons for your POV. There's value in that sort of dialog - whether or not we agree or give you shit for it.

But Alex freaking Jones?
Meh, life is too short.
Be Well.
#9 | Posted by dethspud at 2012-01-22 01:51 AM | Reply | Flag: DR hack/idiot self-revealed (nfw did he watch the vid)!

Wow death, I usually like your posts but that vid didn't even have Alex Jones in it and I even said that in the thrad-post-title (if it wasn't front-paged changed w/o me noticing).

Sure he owns the channel/publication, but do you thing Rupert Murdoch's publications and shows are better (the ones w/o him in them)?

Quite a few newer drugs target the aberrant signaling pathways that are present in tumor cells. They have their own sets of drawbacks, though. Most can only be used on specific cancers with specific mutations in specific genes... and they can be defeated by the evolution of resistance by the tumor.
Of course, there will always be schizophrenic idiots who think this is evidence of some vast conspiracy...
#4 | Posted by Dr_Icepick at 2012-01-22 01:00 AM

Aren't they just blindly stabbing at dna triggers and "beta blocker" compounds?

There is a conspiracy - Gerson therapy works, marijuana therapy works, and anti-neoplastons work. Chemotherapy turning off the immune system via drug cocktail, then irradiating that weakened flesh is the worst idea in the name of "medicine" and an obvious causation to metastasis. It's dumb. And we are aware that doctors are experimenting on patients via these experimental drugs - so, conspiracy is already self-evident. It's the withholding of the actual therapies that is a more damaging medical conspiracy, imo.

Doctors need to confess to marijuana's incredible medical benefits. Until then, they are all guilty of omission.

#14 and if so they know in their hearts they're murders. Fucking evil how they blame the truth tellers for that when they're the guilty ones.

Don't take the drugs, and you won't live long enough to get cancer a second time.
#3 | Posted by Dr_Icepick at 2012-01-22 12:56 AM | Reply | Flag: DR PUSHER!

Bullshit Pusher. If the drugs are deadly than taking them kills people.

I watched the first three minutes of the video. If you care, educate yourself. This video is amateur conspiratorial fear propaganda. The men who made this video should be convicted of murder.
#8 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2012-01-22 01:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

I've watched my girlfriend and a bestfriend die of cancer. My interest is in the truth and Dr Pushers lied to my face about a simpler situation. IDK the molecular bio much either. But just like the HIV=AIDS bullshit my impression is cancer-treatment killed them faster than their health-issues. CHEMO KILLED THEM. Sure they might have died sooner w/o chemo - but IDK where's the double blinde statistics on that? I've not seen them. Just like our past arguments here about the flue shot and HIV being harmless while the HIV-drugs cause AIDS.

IDK if there's a "conspiracy", or just a lot of corruption, but there are people dying for condidtions that aren't deadly based upon bad Dr advice that's mainstreme (yea still pissed at that type 2 Dr pusher killer asshole - would clobber him if I saw him in public (or maybe just wip out my dick and piss on him!)).

Bullshit Pusher. If the drugs are deadly than taking them kills people.

WTF in Chemo do you think kills cancer? Sunshine? Happy thoughts?

Live months or years. It is not a hard decision.

would clobber him if I saw him in public

Another internet tough guy.

What do you expect from someone that thinks their cable box is spying on them?

Of course, there will always be schizophrenic idiots who think this is evidence of some vast conspiracy...
#4 | POSTED BY DR_ICEPICK

Who pays this asshole's salary? He'd have you believe that the only pay to cure cancer or any other disease is by poisoning yourself with patent protected drugs.

Does this surprise anyone? Look how the FDA fast-tracked AZT in the 1980's, a drug rejected for chemo because it was deadly. When they stopped using this poison later, the AIDS survival rate went way up.
Trust science. Trust the FDA. Really.....

AZT increased lifespan of those infected with HIV. Just because we have better treatments now does not mean the old one was the equivalent of hitting someone over the head with a battleaxe.

the FDA fast-tracked AZT in the 1980's, a drug rejected for chemo because it was deadly

Get your facts straight, fundo. AZT was rejected because it was ineffective as an anti-cancer drug.

When they stopped using this poison later, the AIDS survival rate went way up.

Horseshit. HIV survival increased with the introduction of AZT, and increased again with the advent of various combination therapies.

So he lies. Theres no proif azt extended anyones life. If the statistical studies were done theyre nnot public... $$$1st. Tere is proof azt will give a perso aids without them even having hiv.

So he lies. Theres no proif azt extended anyones life. If the statistical studies were done theyre nnot public... $$$1st. Tere is proof azt will give a perso aids without them even having hiv.

"insulin causes hypoglycemia!"

Well technically it does.

Great, yet another medicine thread where reitze gets to assert things counter to known information without ever providing a shred of evidence.

This video is amateur conspiratorial fear propaganda.

Given his love for "House of Numbers" (which was complete and utter garbage), this isn't a surprise.

but IDK where's the double blinde statistics on that?

Jesus, not this again.

Reitze, you've gotta stop dabbling in things you don't understand. Do you even know what you're demanding with this question? It's as unethical as if you did with HIV with cancer numbnuts.

"It's as unethical as if you did with HIV with cancer numbnuts."

Not just stupid, dangerously stupid. God help anyone who actually takes his medical advice.

Well technically it does.

That's the point.

Theres no proif azt extended anyones life

It's as unethical as if you did with HIV with cancer numbnuts.
#27 | Posted by jpw at 2012-01-22 06:14 PM | Reply | Flag: Thanks!

We obviously see that differently. I don't go along with ignorant bliss, want to know more and find the response to direct challenges to be argumentative rather than illuminating, so IMHO it smells like a ...

"I don't go along with ignorant "

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Willful ignorance and utter, lying stupidity are your forte's ratshit.
Keep lying.
You're almost entertaining.

Theres no proif azt extended anyones life
Reality begs to differ.
#30 | Posted by Dr_Icepick at 2012-01-22 06:29 PM | Reply | Flag: FINALLY some evidence!

"These data demonstrate that AZT administration can decrease mortality and the frequency of opportunistic infections in a selected group of subjects with AIDS or AIDSâ€"related complex, at least over the 8 to 24 weeks of observation in this study. (N Engl J Med 1987; 317:185â€"91.)"

So that showed some benefit in patients with pretty advanced AIDS, not HIV. The criteria sounds like people sorta cancer-sick-near-death and since AZT was originally a cancer drug sure I can imagine a chemo drug extending someone's life in that end-state decline. In someone that sick even a "hiv infection" seems a plausible scenario. Not like hiv would make someone sick on its own - but after whatever got them to that point like those drugs they took, who knows.

But for me thAT's how to "bring me around" to finding value in SOME of the mainstreme medicine, including medication. Like would DCA have done better than AZT in that situation? Anyone funding that research w/o a patent since DCA isn't patentable? Those sort of questions ANSWERED would be better than the lack of good information being available while PR and advertizing is well funded.

#30, 33 Doc, got anything better/more recent/broader? That was 1987 and was a fairly small number of patients. But the test-format double-blind statistic-producing approach was spot-on. Got more that would go to the HIV challenges from Deusberg? Seemed all the "debunking" sites anyone offered and I've ever seen were anecdotal not statistical.

Zat's back from his black hole! Did Zat go faster than light?

Don't take the drugs, and you won't live long enough to get cancer a second time.
#3 | Posted by Dr_Icepick at 2012-01-22 12:56 AM | Reply | Flag: ?

I'm sure thats true for some worst-case scenarios. However, how or what do you recommend other than chemo/attack-oriented methods going after "bad cells"? Especially since there are cancers that become distributed, etc.

Rather than a poision oriented approach, whats the health-oriented approach? Does that align with a normal person's "optimal diet" or is it somehow nutrient charged, etc.?

Is the govt's "my plate" the guidepost in your dr anyone opinion? There does appear to be a few counter-mainstream approaches that get a lot of shit like I saw with the Type 2 stuff. Looks like the "insured death" hcr could make all that worse - unless it were well managed (id be surprised without our govt post NDAA - more like soma sales).

#27 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2012-01-22 06:14 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

As I recall, they actually DID do double blind with AZT for a while. Someone pointed out how horribly unethical that was.

One can always refuse to take the drug treatment. Like this dude -
www.youtube.com

#37 | POSTED BY DR_DUDE2 AT 2012-01-23 12:32 PM | REPLY | FLAG

Those Doctorpushers were lying to him! Cancer treatment would have killed him, not cancer.

Reitze's "logic" is utterly hilarious. "I did something doctors have been claiming and proving is possible since the 80's, therefore I'm smarter than all doctors because I did something doctors have known about for decades!"

Just ask Steve Jobs how all of those "natural" treatments worked out for him... LOL

One can always refuse to take the drug treatment. Like this dude -
www.youtube.co
#37 | POSTED BY DR_DUDE2 AT 2012-01-23 12:32 PM | REPLY | FLAG Anecdote again

Anecdote arguments may work in political setting but suck for analyzing treatment effectiveness. Its bad enough that 4 out of 5 dentists prefer crust.

Reitze's "logic" is utterly hilarious. "I did something doctors have been claiming and proving is possible since the 80's, therefore I'm smarter than all doctors because I did something doctors have known about for decades!"
#40 | Posted by soheifox at 2012-01-23 02:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Dr's advic I received had 0 about nutrition, or self-testing or food-psychology, etc. The concept of "you can't reverse it even if you improved by loosing weight and you'll die if you don't take these pills now" was obviously WRONG. And the pills have more than just side effects wrong in that situation. They also create a dependence situation and mask the benefits of other food improvements. If I had been at some level of imperfect health while trying all the dietary things and saw getting worse THEN such drug-options would seem more appropriate and I would hope to be able to find better statistics than what normally seems available.

So no pushing drugs 1st on me was foul - I'll never go back to that particular Dr that's for sure. And I can only hope to never NEED another (though none of us knows for sure).

advanced AIDS, not HIV
You're a fucking idiot. That is all.
Now go stick a gun in your mouth and make a beneficial contribution to humankind.
#42 | Posted by Dr_Icepick at 2012-01-23 02:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

SO you got another link to establish statistical causality? The survey in the link indicated the patients already had AIDS. So whether hiv showed up due to lowered immune or the other way round - that research didn't seperate that and thus wan't showing ANYTHING about hiv causality vs simple correlation. But if you got another good link like that other one I could become convinced.

So far we've had lots of threads like these and link in #30 was the best I've seeen point in such a direction (statistical not anecdotal) even though it only provided a hint, not 'proof' or even persuasive evidence.

#44 though was impressive for azt treating full blown aids and that sarcoseys sarcoma thing.

Having gone through chemo (cysplatin) and radiation I can tell you that it is a combination of heavy metal poisoning (mine was platinum) which destroys all fast growing cells not just cancer cells and radiation.

The results:
Loss of hearing in both ears
Thickened saliva
Loss of some taste
Dry throat (had throat cancer)
Hard digestion due to lack of saliva
Stiff neck and jaw
Enamel lost on teeth
Lost 40 LBS
Lost all muscle tone

BUT

Almost three years later I can still hug my wife and kids. And I would do it all over again.

I am still alive!

"Almost three years later I can still hug my wife and kids."

Keep it up, and good health to you.

On another note, my chemo doc told me most deaths that come during treatment are due to malnutrition.

It was terribly difficult to get calories into your system while under treatment. Food is also medicine in these situations.

Thanks doc - in september I am officially cured.

Food is also medicine in these situations.

#48 | POSTED BY PROLIX247 AT 2012-01-23 05:56 PM | REPLY | FLAG

That's where Medical Marijuana comes in. That's one of it's real uses. Every abuse of the system, every bullshit snake oil claim, helps keep it out of the hands of people who actually need it.

As I recall, they actually DID do double blind with AZT for a while. Someone pointed out how horribly unethical that was.

I'm too young to remember the early AIDS years but this wouldn't surprise me.

It does surprise, and disgust, me that Reitze would demand that now.

Now for some info on chemotherapy and anti-cancer meds from someone that has been in medicine for years: A caveat; I didn't read the article:

1 In some cancers there are very effective chemotherapeutic agents----an example would be Hodgkin's disease where the survival rates are close to 80-90% today.

2 There are other cancers where the meds are essentially worthless. In those situations, the patient and family should be informed about the odds and then the choice becomes theirs on whether they want to go through the side effects and the loss of quality of life and still have no increase in longevity.

3 One of the problems with chemotherapy is that even when it is effective and an individual seems to have responded with increased longevity, there is always an increase in risk of other cancers secondary to the chemotherapy having a deleterious affect on the lymphatic material in their bodies immune system. Lymphomas and sarcomas are 2 types of cancer increased in patients treated with chemotherapy.

4 The forth point is the threat of not only significant side effects but also death from complications due to the drugs themselves such as bone marrow suppression resulting in septicemia and death.

I am still alive!
#46 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2012-01-23 05:30 PM | Reply | Flag: way to go!

I don't claim to know the causalities/statistics at hand and the unavailability of them is why I bitch on these threads. I do thing such difficult decisoins would be easier with better information.

We all know lots of people struggling through cancer, and I even lost my best friend and a girlfriend (2 different people) to it. Chemo helped one of them, and seemed to kill the other.

I do thing such difficult decisoins would be easier with better information.

#53 | Posted by reitze at 2012-01-23 09:26 PM | Reply

Anyone with cancer should do their own research on the particular cancer and then arm themselves with some very basic questions to ask their oncologists and surgeons in order to establish their choices and whether they want to undergo a particular surgery and/or chemotherapy. I had neighbor(s) and friend(s) and patient(s) that I spent time answering questions and giving them questions to ask their oncologists and surgeons so that they would get some straight answers from which to make an intelligent decision. An educated patient becomes his/her own advocate and it's a huge advantage for them in their decision-making.

Having gone through chemo (cysplatin)

I didn't even know they still used cysplatin for human treatment. I thought better derivatives had been developed and implemented.

Having seen what that stuff does to HeLa cells (cells so fucked up they're practically their own organism) I can only imagine how you felt!

Almost three years later I can still hug my wife and kids. And I would do it all over again.

I am still alive!

Glad to hear it.

Having gone through chemo (cysplatin)

I didn't even know they still used cysplatin for human treatment.

#55 | Posted by jpw at 2012-01-23 10:06 PM | Reply

Cisplatin is still used; often not alone but in a combination of drugs.

Dry throat (had throat cancer)

#46 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2012-01-23 05:30 PM | Reply

Let me guess; an ex-smoker.

Dry throat (had throat cancer)

#46 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2012-01-23 05:30 PM | Reply

Let me guess; an ex-smoker.

Posted by matsop at 2012-01-23 10:19 PM | Reply

Could be HPV from eating too many pussies.
Look it up.

Could be HPV from eating too many pussies.
Look it up.

#58 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2012-01-23 10:25 PM | Reply

I doubt it for prolix but in your case living in a storm sewer in Texas with multiple partners, it definitely is a possibility.