But how will the international banking cartel then be able to rob the people and give trillions to foreign banks?

Government is a kind of a business with captive customers. They can charge whatever they want. If you don't want to pay, they'll send goons after you to collect.

"It's time to consider whether to get rid of income taxes, personal and corporate."

The Fair Tax does exactly THAT...and eliminates the IRS. It also eliminates payroll taxes, the death tax and others. How can anyone not like a plan that eliminates the IRS? When I first heard about it, I thought in was crazy, but after I read the book due to urging from a friend, I became a true believer.

The libs will hate this. They love the government controlling every aspect of their lives.

The Fair Tax does exactly THAT...and eliminates the IRS.

Don't fucking believe it. These psychos are looking for a VAT to complement income and other taxes. The problem is spending. If government spent within the means of the people, taxes would be at reasonable levels.

Consumption tax aka sales tax. The current tax system is little more than handouts to special interests for special favors and a jobs program for tax attorneys and accountants. On top of that the complexity of the tax system is sand in the engine of the economy.

The regressive nature can be easily fixed.

"The regressive nature can be easily fixed."

Yes, by "handouts to special interests".

The so-called FAIR tax is inherently unfair and ultimately regressive.

What people need to start talking about is a wealth tax.

Nobody ever will of course.

Not on American status quo preserving corporate media.

Spud imagines if someone actually tried to say those two words aloud together on FOX Rupert Murdoch would prolly pull him off air within seconds and personally shot him in the head himself.

/Spud keeds, he'd most likely get his Ninja-Princess wife to take him out with poisoned shuriken.
//Cos that's how he rolls.

Be Well.

A sales tax can be made non-regressive if every citizen is sent a monthly check for an amount that equals the sales taxes paid by a person at the poverty level. Whether you buy nothing or $100k of stuff, you would get the same check as everyone else.

"if every citizen is sent a monthly check for an amount that equals the sales taxes paid by a person at the poverty level"

A check every month to 100% of the citizenry when the income tax system only gets 85% participation? Good God, what a freakin' bureaucratic nightmare.

"These psychos are looking for a VAT to complement income and other taxes."

The Fair Tax is not a VAT and I agree with you that these "psychos" are considering one.

"The problem is spending."

And THAT is so very true too.

'A check every month to 100% of the citizenry when the income tax system only gets 85% participation?"

It won't be a check. It will be some form of credit card that will be charged with a monthly amount equal to the consumption tax that would be paid based on the poverty level. If you live under the radar you won't get one of those cards but you will STILL pay the consumption tax when you purchase items.

"Good God, what a freakin' bureaucratic nightmare."

LOL...now you're gonna tell us the current system with IRS isn't so fucked up it makes Hogan's goat look like a well-oiled precision instrument. You're good, Dan...LOL

"It won't be a check. It will be some form of credit card"

And suddenly you're not concerned with fraud and abuse?

" If you live under the radar you won't get one of those cards but you will STILL pay the consumption tax when you purchase items."

Another "small government" conservative, right?

"you're gonna tell us the current system with IRS isn't so fucked up"

Parts are, certainly. But they're only concerned with a tiny percentage of transactions. Under the FT, the IRS would be replaced with the FTRS, now concerned with ALL transactions, and by definition would have to be empowered to investigate all transactions in an economy where you just radically incentivized the black market, including barter.

It's way past time to remove the millstone around our necks,the present system is too complicated,corrupt, and a drag on business.Over the years the government and Congress has little by little tightened the vise until they have almost stifled our free enterprise system.The 16th amendment would have to be repealed first however,if not those turkeys in Congress might saddle us with both.

Government is a kind of a business with captive customers. They can charge whatever they want. If you don't want to pay, they'll send goons after you to collect.

#2 | Posted by Ray

There's something eerily old about this statement.

It's way past time to remove the millstone around our necks,the present system is too complicated,corrupt, and a drag on business.Over the years the government and Congress has little by little tightened the vise until they have almost stifled our free enterprise system.The 16th amendment would have to be repealed first however,if not those turkeys in Congress might saddle us with both.

#14 | Posted by upyours7

Or at least they'd saddle up some of us. The Union folks would all get waivers.

Great Idea! Problem is that all the free riders, (low income, lazy, illegals, ok most of the democratic voting block) would no longer be able to live off the hard work of others. However, there are people like me that would donate a fair amount of my tax free earnings to donate to private non governmental charities that help the poor advance themselves.

Ok free riders, I know you are going to bash me, please use some substance in your slurs.

" there are people like me that would donate a fair amount of my tax free earnings to donate to private non governmental charities that help the poor advance themselves."

What percentage do you contribute now, and what's your marginal fed/state tax rate?

"there are people like me that would donate a fair amount of my tax free earnings"

Yeah? And how much money would that be?

I know you are going to bash me, please use some substance in your slurs.

#17 | Posted by Brian320

Sure I'm going to bash you. That's why you're going to be complete weenie in regards to what work you do and what your income is.

I donate 10 percent to my church, 10 percent to fund scholarships for young people in my area, and I'm in the top bracket. I spent 6 years in college, 10 years living below the poverty line as a student, and while I worked my way up in my career field. I am major airline captain, and I also run a small business. That's the beauty of America, you can achieve anything if government stays off your back. I come from a middle class family, took out student loans and worked to pay for college.

Would you like to know more?

The Fair Tax does exactly THAT

What a moron, taxes are meant to be fare, just not regressive.

-That's why you're going to be complete weenie in regards to what work you do and what your income is.

okay weenie. bust it out.....occupation and income.

this should be good....zed calling someone else a "weenie" for not revealing information....zed hasn't answered a direct question about himself ever.

Would you like to know more?

#21 | Posted by Brian320

Sure. Who was the first pilot to fly an outside loop?

zed hasn't answered a direct question about himself ever.

#23 | Posted by eberly at 2012-01-08 03:38 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Because that would be just stupid. But I note BRIAN couldn't resist.

Fair, I don't think liberals know what that word means. If you work harder, study harder, come up with a better idea, you make more, and get to keep more. The left says we are all equal EXCEPT....... The rich will always pay more, 10 percent of 10,000 is less than 10 percent of 1,000,000. A consumption tax would also cause the rich to pay more because they will buy more, and buy more expensive items. NO NO NOT IN LIBERAL UTOPIA. PROGRESSIVE TAKES PROMOTE LAZY PEOPLE WITH NO INCENTIVE TO ACHIEVE ANYTHING.

BRIAN, you might be surprised to hear this, but many people like to exaggerate their flying skills.

If you fly anything, it won't take that long to determine that.

Um, outside loop, Captain BRIAN?

You people on the left can never have a civil conversation. You would rather intimidate and call me names because your theories and ideology does not work. I'm used to the name calling, so please save yourself the time. Leftist thinking aka Obama and the current democratic party will never succeed. If by chance it does you will all find yourself waking up in a country that looks a lot more like China then America. You can debate the merits and perhaps we can find solutions that both sides can live with. For the most of America, we are tired of doing all the work for people who decide not to. My grandfather died years ago, but somehow never voted democrat until he passed, is that how you get your agenda by. Or, is it forcing people like me to join a union, so you can launder money from me into the coffers of the underachieving American.

Or, is it forcing people like me to join a union,

#30 | Posted by Brian320 at

If there's a charity to send you to flight school, I might contrbute a five-spot.

You have nothing constructive to add, so you target my occupation. Funny. If you want to talk flying, start a post, be glad to contribute.

You have nothing constructive to add, so you target my occupation.

#32 | Posted by Brian320

What's a sprite, BRIAN, in the context of aviation?

Zed has nothing intelligent to add. CLearly!

"That's the beauty of America, you can achieve anything if government stays off your back."

Get real. You brought up charity: if a couple making $60,000 donates $10,000, their federal refund increases by $1500. That same $10,000 donated nets you $3,500.

"The 16th amendment would have to be repealed first however,if not those turkeys in Congress might saddle us with both."

Repeal is a requirement for the Fair Tax.

Brian just stfu and pay your taxes. Im entitled to my cut of your tax money to help me achieve the American dream too. I work but need a little boost to help me make ends meet.

Really, you ever thought that I donate to charity to help people!!! Despite your apparent indoctrination, conservatives are not greedy. Again, all I get is insults, but not any intelligent responses. You're clearly a liberal

Oh really, you have a right to my money. Sad part is people like me will stop working, work less, or do whatever we need to do to prevent freeloaders like yourself make ends meet. Go to college, start a business, come up with a good idea and you can make a better life for yourself. You don't need my, or the governments help to do so, unless you are admitting that your an incompetent fool, and thus you have no hope.

"Despite your apparent indoctrination, conservatives are not greedy. Again, all I get is insults,"

I apologize if you thought it was an insult. I merely thought it was silly to suggest government "get off your back" when they're subsidizing your charity at higher rates than average.

again, I contribute to charity to help people! Clearly you must have missed that.

apology accepted.

"Sad part is people like me will stop working"

Aw, well, too bad. Luckily, with all this unemployment, and so many applicants for good jobs, I'm sure we'll be able to replace you, especially since some soldier-pilots will be coming home with the military cutbacks.

Don't let the door hit you, okay?

Brian just stfu and pay your taxes. Im entitled to my cut of your tax money to help me achieve the American dream too. I work but need a little boost to help me make ends meet.
#37 | POSTED BY JACKASS

And I'm entitled to have parasites like you burned at the stake.

I dont feel like working any harder Brian. I feel like I do enough. You are obligated to help those less fortunate. Now please stop complaining and do your civic dury by paying higher taxes.

"You don't need my, or the governments help to do so"

Nonsense, and as a small business owner, you should know that. "Government" allows deductions for expenses, and subsidizes retirement plans via the tax code. Anyone not using "the government's help" doesn't know what they're doing.

NO NO NOT IN LIBERAL UTOPIA. PROGRESSIVE TAKES PROMOTE LAZY PEOPLE WITH NO INCENTIVE TO ACHIEVE ANYTHING.

Lol, really, you think I will be the only one lol. Just look at Carter raising taxes and the treasury took in much less then Reagan did at a max rate of 28 percent. People like you will doom the left in the end. You can't even have a civil argument without resulting to childish name calling. You can't defeat the successful people in this country because they are hard working and smart, that's why they are "successful".

"parasites like me, burned at the stake", you sound like a doped up occupy drone, or your just incompetent.

Obligated, really???? I'm obligated to have you mow my lawn for free then. Wait liberal Utopia works one way only, got it.

Is someone quoting Krugman talking points. Ok, that's a far left position, but at least it's better then "name calling". If you like the lifestyle in China, people like Krugman make a great point. His prospective is a hybrid socialist/marxist style of econ. I've spent time in China, not a great place. You never hear much of it, but there is an increasing opposition to the oppressive lifestyle there by locals.

In a civilized society the haves get their wealth redistributed to the have nots. You must be really ignorant if you cannot see how that benefits all involved.

"parasites like me, burned at the stake", you sound like a doped up occupy drone, or your just incompetent.
#48 | POSTED BY BRIAN320

That was a parody of Jackasses' claims to entitlement.

True, yes all of us take those tax breaks (Both conservative and liberals), but in truth, the income tax should be eliminated, thus eliminating the need for deductions. A consumption tax would be best! Now what scares me is that talk of all these current taxes, plus an increase, plus a VAT??? It amazes me how jealous/envious people are of successful people. I sure wish I had Payton Manning's money, but I'm not jealous, and I surely don't want a piece of it. That's what it'a all about.

Are you trying to rationalize you own personal failures and inadequacies Ray???? Do you need some money??

In a civilized society the haves get their wealth redistributed to the have nots. You must be really ignorant if you cannot see how that benefits all involved.
#51 | POSTED BY JACKASS

Jackass, society needs more liberals to practice what they preach and sacrifice themselves for the common good. If you cared, you would kill yourself. It would leave more money for those less fortunate than you.

Ah sounds like Robin Hood is a live an well on this board. Well I don't expect you to respect my viewpoint, but just pray your theories don't come to be. Chasing/punishing the rich will have a devastating effect on your life, like it or not.

Ray nobody deserves entitlements more than me. The work I do here is a national treasure. Oh and a consumption tax wouldnt tax the wealthy enough.

Are you trying to rationalize you own personal failures and inadequacies Ray???? Do you need some money??
#54 | POSTED BY BRIAN320

Do you know what parody means? If it was up to me, I would have all the states secede from Washington.

"Chasing/punishing the rich "

You missed the point: we're coddling the rich. Why should the exact same dollar donation, representing a smaller percentage of your income than the average family's exact same dollar donation, net you more than twice the benefit?

Ray nobody deserves entitlements more than me. The work I do here is a national treasure. Oh and a consumption tax wouldnt tax the wealthy enough.
#57 | POSTED BY JACKASS

Then you should get yourself locked up in jail again. Free room and board. Free sex. You'll never have to work again. It doesn't get any better than that.

Well you can't argue with ignorant liberals. Just watch and see what happens when you punish the rich, you won't like it at all. You may think Obama is the messiah, but he isn't. He will fail like every left wing regime in history. His policies, like those of FDR, W. Wilson, Carter (who was responsible for the housing crash), will all fail. How many poor people will your hurt along the way with your leftist opinions along the way??? Sadly you many steal more of my money if you are lucky, but I will always have a stable lifestyle. You, and many others will suffer more then ever will, and your ability to increase your standard of living will be almost impossible.

He drudge for us responding on your phone, an edit feature would be nice. I apologize for the bad grammar.

"missing the point" why don't we just combine everyone's salary and have the government pay us the mean average of all salary earned. So everyone no matter what you do gets say 45,000 a year! Would that be fair for you? Not sure who would start a business, who would spend years becoming a doctor. Wow, would have some really awesome video game professionals, is there an olympic event for that???

We're all supposed to feel guilty for wanting the rich to pay more in taxes. Sorry, I don't. I want the rich to pay much more in taxes. We built a nation that way whether or not the folks on the right will ever be honest enough to admit it. Most of America agrees with me, I have a sneaking felling that taxes for the wealthy will be going up and our economy will be improving even against the will of those who will benefit the most.

You missed the point: we're coddling the rich. Why should the exact same dollar donation, representing a smaller percentage of your income than the average family's exact same dollar donation, net you more than twice the benefit?
#59 | POSTED BY DANFORTHK

The politics of envy.

Honest people get rich to the degree they contribute to the betterment of society. That's how Gates and Jobs made it. The liberal mantra is to cripple the best contributors out of some undefinable standard of fairness.

We're all supposed to feel guilty for wanting the rich to pay more in taxes. Sorry, I don't. I want the rich to pay much more in taxes.

That line of thinking destroyed every nation that tried it. Don't say I haven't been warning you all these years.

Danni, why are you not happy with your quality of life, are you incompetent, or just don't have the fire to do what it takes to improve your own quality of life? What do you do for a living? Look Danni, when you tax a business, the business passes the cost on to you via hire prices. If you hurt the rich, they will find ways to hurt you. Why can't you just worry about your own life, instead of worrying about others. Ok, let's tax the rich how will that help you? You want to tax big oil too? Well get ready for 10 dollar a gallon gas, can you afford that? See blaming others for your problems will not work. Just ask the people in Europe, more specifically Greece, Spain, Italy. Even the Russians know high taxes don't work and have a 15 percent flat tax.

Without the ability to get "rich" there would be no iphones, no microsoft, should I go on?

That line of thinking destroyed every nation that tried it. Don't say I haven't been warning you all these years.

#66 | Posted by Ray at 2012-01-08 04:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

LOL...and how did those rich do after the destuction of those nations...LOL

If we have to destroy our nation to get the rich to put some skin in the game for the betterment of our nation, I am all for it.

fuck the rich, they are taking down our nation.

I'm sure they did much better then the poor!! Moneywar, what are you envious about? What are your failures and inadequacies that fuel your hatred towards the rich?

Hey Money War, why don't you do something to make your own life better. I guarantee the rich will survive.

Why are the rich taking down "our" nation? Do you not have enough money? Do you spend more time playing video games then doing something constructive? Did you not put an effort into school? Do you not have the ability to manage a business, or create a new product or service? Are you lazy?

Moneywar

In #65, I referred to the honest rich. You are clumping the dishonest rich with the honest rich. It is the former that destroys and the latter that creates.

"Did you not put an effort into school?"

Do you think assholes like you impress anyone? Fuck you.

"The politics of envy."

Riiight, more like the politics of enough is enough. It's time to take back our country and the rich will be financing it. If they don't like it they can leave. Buh bye. We'll be much better off without the rich leeches who took their wealth from the country they care nothing about.

I don't like dishonest people regardless of their income level. People collecting food stamps, then driving home in a brand new mercedes should be treated the same as the bernie madoff's of the world. On the other hand, if they cheat they should be punished. I believe in the "honest dollar made" theory, and I believe that the vast majority of the rich are good people. People who are doctors, lawyers, business owners, or people like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, who have all become wealthy by making the lives of most Americans better.

Is someone quoting Krugman talking points. Ok, that's a far left position, but at least it's better then "name calling". If you like the lifestyle in China, people like Krugman make a great point.

Hey man, nice shot.

Too bad the messenger lived.

Krugman's point had nothing to do with with China.

Krugman's point had to do with the fact that people like yourself (ie. apologists for the people who are raping the economy) are pointless shills mindlessly regurgitating propaganda that's been drilled into your head by an echo chamber of RW media.

Well Danni, did you?? Well all make choices in life, some pay off and some don't. We must all live with our decisions. I have friends who did nothing but study for years and now they are successful doctors and entrepreneurs. Some of my friends/family chose to party, and some of them have lower paying professions. Choice's Danni Choices. In fact I know a fellow airline pilot who lost his medical, instead of collecting disability, and whining he pursued another career. He sold his home, moved his family to a small apartment, and went back to school at age 35, he is now finishing his residency in general medicine. So you know, there is no excuse Danni! You never answered, WHAT DO YOU DO TO SUPPORT YOURSELF?

Braindead320: People collecting food stamps, then driving home in a brand new mercedes should be treated the same as the bernie madoff's of the world.

Holy crap.

It's 2012 and Spud just found a guy who's still herping Reagan's infamous "Cadillac welfare queen" derp.

Hey Brian...

1984 called.

They want their skinny tie back.

Be Well.

All western civilized countries have an element of socialism in them, it's not a bad thing but a god and necessary thing because some things the state does better than private business

That one has me laughing on the floor. The political system is so corrupt, it's bringing the world economy down with it. Government is nothing more that an overrated criminal syndicate with a monopoly on violence and headed by a gang of ruthless conniving psychopaths.

"Well Danni, did you??"

Well did you internet big shot??? What a clown.

"Government is nothing more that an overrated criminal syndicate with a monopoly on violence and headed by a gang of ruthless conniving psychopaths."

Do you realize what a simplistic thought process it takes to say something like that. Making idiotic generalities about everyone in government is so over the top that it just ends up sounding like.....Ray.

"The politics of envy."
Riiight, more like the politics of enough is enough. It's time to take back our country and the rich will be financing #76 | Posted by dann

I agree enough of ignorant crap for this evening.

The Top 1% AGI $343,927 36.73% of our taxes
The Top 5% AGI $154,643 58.66% of our taxes
AGI is Adjusted Gross Income
Source: Internal Revenue Service

It's obvious that you don't know Krugman's work, nor have you never been to China. You observations about China are false and incorrect.

Using the world "marxist" makes me look stupid, really!! You have not studied any world history at all have you? Look, even basic examples are evident on you tube. Listen to Obama's speeches, there are direct quotes from Alinski's "rules for radicals" which is heavy dose of Marxist theory.

You want the successful in this country for one reason, YOU FAILED IN YOUR OWN LIFE, SO LET'S BRING EVERYONE DOWN.

SHOULD WE GO AFTER LEBRON JAMES TOO???????? OR IS HE EXEMPT???????
LET'S BRING A BIG WHEEL BARREL OVER AND LOAD UP SOME CASH. I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH HE MAKES?

OH AND WHY ARE THE OCCUPIERS NOT PROTESTING JEFFREY IMEL FROM GE, WHY ARE THEY NOT ON HIS FRONT LAWN???? WHY BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOUR ARE SUCKERS. OBAMA IS USING YOU TO BRING DOWN SOCIETY, AND WHEN THINGS ARE REBUILT HE WILL HAVE NO INTEREST IN YOU, BUT ONLY STAYING IN POWER. YOUR NOTHING MORE THEN A DIRTY HOOKER AFTER SEX, 100 PERCENT USELESS.

"It's 2012 and Spud just found a guy who's still herping Reagan's infamous "Cadillac welfare queen" derp."

Meanwhile millions of kids are eating because of food stamps so hey we better take them away so those kids don't grow up lazy and shiftless. Probably they should get jobs, an 8 year old is a terrible thing to waste.

Really, I was just at a publix in south Florida. I watched a person pay with food stamps and walk to a new mercedes, and no it was 2011. Try again!

You libs are too childish to know what you're dealing with. In your unrelenting quest for cosmic fairness, you (and the right) have turned this nation into a corporate police state. The police have been militarized. Obama signed NDAA essentially declaring martial law. The US is on the last leg towards a Banana Republic. You're not going to like being poor and oppressed.

no one is advocating kicking kids of welfare, but weeding out all benefits over time. Private charities should take care of the poor and the children. Government has no accountability. How many people do you know milking the 99 weeks of UE, while working under the table and defrauding the government of tax revenue. How many people do you know that use illegal drugs, yet lack the sufficient income and require government subsidies?

Do you realize what a simplistic thought process it takes to say something like that. Making idiotic generalities about everyone in government is so over the top that it just ends up sounding like.....Ray.
#83 | POSTED BY DANN

See #88. You're not going to like what's in store for the future of this country.

I wonder what are the odds, even when Obama loses in November he still remains in office in 2013?

I did not state that all government is bad!!! Our military has some of the best people in the world.

Hey I've got a good game we can play. It's called Denying History. What we do is let our economy fall apart and pretend we haven't had similar problems before which we fixed by raising taxes so high that wealthy folks had little choice except to invest into our economy or else watch their income be confiscated through taxes by the government. Let's all pretend we never had a huge WWII debt and that we never paid it down. Let's all listen to right wing econoliars who have been telling us how supply side economics will make us all prosperous for thirty years as we got poorer and the 1% got much richer. Let's just pretend we don't know all that and then the Republican or even the really radical Libertarian economic models will sound like utopia. We have to play this game because if we really started believing that crap we'd end up....right where we ended up.

"You're not going to like what's in store for the future of this country.
This is your 1,000,000th warning."

Ray

"I wonder what are the odds, even when Obama loses in November he still remains in office in 2013?"

Riiight. So what you're really doing is preparing yourself for the loss that is coming in 2012 and preparing to again pretend Obama is not a legitimate president. We're already used to that game, y'all have been playing it since Nov. 2008.

I wonder what are the odds, even when Romney loses in November Obama will still remain in office in 2013?

Pretty good.

/Fixt, yeah.

It will be Obama versus Romney.

Romney will lose.

Spud called it months ago.

All these debates and crap are just the MSM trying to turn the thing into a horse race as usual by keeping the race as close as they can with their bullshit false equivalences.

Be Well.

Wow, good luck with that. You think that will help the poor, but just the opposite will occur. Perhaps we should make all the white people slaves too, that will help to and extend reparations.

""I wonder what are the odds, even when Obama loses in November he still remains in office in 2013?""

I'd say pretty good, since even if defeated for re-election, his current term runs into 2013.

No, I'm saying I'm sure my dead grandfather will some how vote along with millions of other deceased and illegal folks to give him a chance to win. I was saying that if he loses, I'm not sure he is going to go like every other defeated President. His distain for white america, and the constitution are a concern. Wait, I don't like him because he is black. Dam it! Wrong, I don't like him because he is a left winger, far left then even FDR. Just thought I would put that out there before you accused me. Romney will win in a landslide, guaranteed! Unemployment will be up again in Feb despite efforts to deny UE benefits to fired workers, and lower the number looking for work. Oh, it's happening

Thanks Danforth. I'm sure you understood that I was referring to beyond Jan 20th 2013

Brian just doesn't get it. He got rich off the backs of others and he owes it to those people to give some back. He can't be so damn greedy. It is the responsibility of our government to take some of his wealth away and give it to people like me. I vote for the democrats to ensure people like Brian pay their fair share and that I get everything I'm entitled to. If Brian makes a million a year and is forced to pay 60% in taxes that still leaves him with 400k. More than enough for him to get by.

#85 | POSTED BY BRIAN320 AT 2012-01-08 05:13 PM | REPLY | FLAG In Final Stages of Obama Derangement Syndrome.

Get well soon.

I don't give back. well my wife and I paid well into the 6 figures in taxes, tell me that isn't paying my fair share. While others pay OOOOOO. You just don't get it. YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET RICH TOO, IT'S COME ON TO THE FACT THAT YOU MUST HAVE THE DRIVE AND BE ABLE TO TAKE THE RISK.

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE STARTED A BUSINESS. I PUT MY ENTIRE NET WORTH ON THE LINE TO CREATE A SMALL BUSINESS 6 YEARS AGO. I HAVE OVER 30 EMPLOYEES AND PAY THEM A FAIR SALARY THAT ALLOWS THEM TO TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES IF THEY HAVE ONE. WHAT DO PEOPLE LIKE US HAVE TO DO TO MAKE YOU ENVIOUS/JEALOUS FOLK UNDERSTAND!! YOU CAN EITHER BECOME SUCCESSFUL AND FINANCIALLY STABLE ON YOUR OWN, BUT YOU WON'T DO IT ON OUR BACKS, GUARANTEED

OMG the internet big shot is yelling! I think he believes that his pretend wealth will impress us. Seen it all too many times before. Not impressed even when he types in all caps...OMG!

OH AND I MUST ADD I DON'T DO IT ON THE "BACKS" ON MY EMPLOYEES. I COULD NOT MAKE INCOME WITHOUT THEM, AND I COMPENSATE THEM FAIRLY. I HAVE A VERY GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH MY EMPLOYEES, ESPECIALLY THE MANAGERS THAT RUN THE BUSINESS WHEN I AM OUT OF TOWN FLYING. YOU GUYS ARE NOTHING BUT PARTISAN HACKS. YOU LET THE GE CEO (OBAMA'S JOB CZAR) OFF THE HOOK FOR SENDING THOUSANDS OF JOBS OVERSEAS, AND PAYING NO CORPORATE TAXES. WHY ARE YOU NOT PROTESTING ON HIS FRONT DOOR?????????? WELL IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU, THE LEFTIST AGENDA IS NEVER ABOUT "YOU". WHY DON'T YOU EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE YOU HELP THROW THIS COUNTRY DOWN THE TOILET.

is this better Danni? You never told us what you do??? are you a leech, or a productive member of society. We may be hiring?? Your the "big internet sensation" Denni, not me. why don't you tell us what you do, how do you support yourself or family???? you going to answer or hide

Brian, there's only 3 things you need to know about Danni.

Corporations, Bush, and Reagan are evil.

Danni's illogical arguments all end in one or more of those truisms.

Honest people get rich to the degree they contribute to the betterment of society. That's how Gates and Jobs made it.

The single greatest predictor of having wealth in America today is what particular vagina you popped out of.

Obviously the greater level of education you reach the greater your chances to make good money and the less likely you are to be unemployed but many of the wealthiest in America were born on third base and are now living their lives like they hit a triple to get there with an "FU I got mine" attitude and platitudes about how anyone can follow in their footsteps if they are just bootstrappy enough.

Simple fact remains that the heart of the American Dream, social mobility, the "classless society" where anyone can grow to be President is dying a slow and painful death.

And the GOP are coming up to the death bed with a pillow.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was getting altogether too many useful idiots from the 99% to carry water for the 1% and their increasingly self serving agenda.

The idiots who are acting like taking the top tax rates back to what they were under Clinton or God forbid Reagan is the end of the fucking world or "class envy" or some such shit.

Brauindead320 is a classic example of what Spud's speaking of now.

Observe his continual use of long discredited RW talking points from the last 30 years.

Incapable of self correction and not even lightly tethered to reality.

If he was just one barking mad nutjob shouting this stuff in a park to a group of largely disinterested pigeons it would be one thing but his ilk are legion is the US at present and those fuckers do turn out to vote like clockwork every election unlike the fickle left.

So there's that.

Be Well.

"Really, I was just at a publix in south Florida. I watched a person pay with food stamps and walk to a new mercedes, and no it was 2011. Try again!"

#87 | Posted by Brian320 at 2012-01-08 05:14 PM | Reply | Flag: Liar

Which means the rest of your "postings" are just as suspect.

Try again.

Hans, really! Your showing your ignorance, plus I'm not the only one seeing the abuse of the food stamp program. Why did you become so offended by reality sir, are you a participant in the abuse of this program???

Yawn, not talking points but reality. I have no right to your money, nor do you have a right to mine. If that was the case the leeches in society should be opening doors and moving lawns of every person in the top 10 percent. YOUR A FAILURE JUST LIKE MOST OF YOU LEECHES. YOU WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN YOUR LIFE WITH THAT MENTALITY.

"You're not going to like what's in store for the future of this country.
This is your 1,000,000th warning."
Ray
#94 | POSTED BY DANNI

Like the proverbial boiling frog, the water is getting hotter and you don't notice it.

"Your showing your ignorance"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
RCADE we need a self-retort flag.

Really is that a threat Ray??? Typical of people who have an ideology that does not work.

"the water is getting hotter and you don't notice it."

Posted by Ray at 2012-01-08 07:05 PM | Reply

Actually it's the atmosphere.
RCADE we need a stupid irony flag.

The left is so pathetic. Why don't you go out and make something of yourself instead of blaming others for your failures.

#115 | Posted by Brian320 at 2012-01-08 07:09 PM | Reply | Flag: Blames the US Government for most of his failures. Gays and Muslims for the rest. Blames "Libruls" for everything else.

I don't think I blamed gays and Muslims. I have failed in life, but I always picked myself up on my own. I am proud of the success I have earned through hard work, and you can't take that away from any of us.

Your comment again shows your own personal ignorance.

I also did not blame the government for everything, but I will blame the government for...

1. the housing crash, forcing banks to lend, and people into homes they could not afford
2. wasting trillions of tax payer dollars on green energy companies, and the failed stimulus

Should I continue...

bruce, do you actually think before you make things up??? Nope, your from the people who failed despite opportunity.

"I also did not blame the government for everything, but I will blame the government for...
1. the housing crash, forcing banks to lend, and people into homes they could not afford
2. wasting trillions of tax payer dollars on green energy companies, and the failed stimulus
Should I continue..."

Well, not before you're corrected:

1. "homes they could not afford" wasn't the problem; it was betting bad paper against bad paper at unprecedented ratios.

2. Trillions on energy and the "failed" stimulus? How did you get to that number? (As my physics teacher used to say, show your math.)

Far too many cpa's, lawyers and govt. employees in the revenue departments to ever abolish income taxes.

Income taxes will be with us right up to the collapse. Afterward it's anybody's guess what the program will be.

Yes the stimulus failed. An average of 278k per job, and most of the jobs were temporary. The pay for each of these jobs was at best 40k. Most of the funds was the tax payer bailing out unions, so yes it failed. Oh, and the President claimed if they passed the stimulus the UE rate would not exceed 8 percent, and be a 6 percent by the end of 2011. FAILED!!!!!!

On the topic of homes, there was some blame on the part of banks, but those banks have been forced for years started by our friend Jimmy Carter.

If you need more numbers, be happy to provide them. Perhaps as a teacher you benefited from the union bailout portion??

If we crash under Obama he will build us up with a model of total equality, except for the elevated ruling class he determines. Not sure what happens to the IRS folks.

Ruling class gets unlimited salaries, the rest of us get a 50k salary, yah, I love the left. I never have to work again.

#122 | Posted by Brian320

Is this a new troll from Panama City?

"Yes the stimulus failed. An average of 278k per job"

Oh, great: moron math. Let me guess: you're counting materials like road concrete, and you're counting the tax deductions as "expenditures", right?

"Most of the funds was the tax payer bailing out unions"

Here's a perfect example: that statement is absolute bullshit. Did you make it up? Did you hear it somewhere? If it's the former, know you shouldn't be doing that. If it's the latter, you should identify the source and be warned in the future not to believe anyone that prone to idiocy. Same with the $278k per job: either the person you got it from is stupid, or he thinks you're stupid enough to fall for it.

"Oh, and the President claimed if they passed the stimulus the UE rate would not exceed 8 percent"

Well that was a damned stupid thing to say, I'll agree on that. After the Bush Bust, I was convinced unemployment would rise to 15% or more.

"Perhaps as a teacher you benefited from the union bailout portion?"

I'm not a teacher.

the water is getting hotter and you don't notice it.

Posted by Ray at 2012-01-08 07:05 PM | Reply

nullifidian, really! Troll, that is all you have to support your left wing views. Panama City, why there, how about evil conservative land.

I'm not a teacher.

#124 | Posted by Danforth at 2012-01-08 07:48 PM |

Thank God.

"Is this a new troll from Panama City?"

#123 | Posted by nullifidian at 2012-01-08 07:47 PM | Reply

Wow your calling me a moron, before asking for a more in dept look at the numbers. We can look at all the cost of materials, cost to the tax payer,including interest on the accrued debt, the average wage cost, and the duration the job existed. We can even add the millions used to display those stupid orange American Recovery Act signs, and the temporary jobs generated to produce them. Can you liberals ever have an intelligent conversation before you resort to name calling?

Wow your calling me a moron,

#129 | Posted by Brian320

Well, no one's going to be calling you an airline pilot, are they?

ok why did the UE rate go above 10 when Obama stated it would not go above 8 percent and would be 6 percent now and decreasing?? Can a liberal answer please???? Hint you can't blame Bush, he had low UE until the liberal generated market crash.

Thanks Zed, you jealous that I actually have a good career? Sad!

Wow your (sic) calling me a moron"

If the shoe fits....

"Listen to Obama's speeches, there are direct quotes from Alinski's "rules for radicals" which is heavy dose of Marxist theory."

Link, please.

"I wonder what are the odds, even when Obama loses in November he still remains in office in 2013?"

Bwahahahahahaha! Where were you in 2007 and 2008, when crazy far lefties were suggesting the same of Bush? I bet you were stating how stupid they are. Yes, we have NDAA now, but come on.

103--Six figures in taxes! Holy fuck, a 1%er right here! Don't you have a business to run?

"Ruling class gets unlimited salaries, the rest of us get a 50k salary, yah, I love the left. I never have to work again."

Not you; you're rich. NB the six figures in taxes. And Danforth isn't a teacher. And there wasn't a whole lot of benefiting there. No teachers got huge breaks from any stimulus directed there. Maybe another year of employment. I thought that was a fairly stupid move.

Thanks Zed, you jealous that I actually have a good career? Sad!

#132 | Posted by Brian320

When you tell me what your career is, I'll be glad to tell you if I think it's good. But if you fly planes for a living you can call me Gruber.

"Wow your calling me a moron, before asking for a more in dept look at the numbers."

No, I'm calling whoever told you that lie a moron. You didn't make up that factoid all by yourself, did you?

"Can you liberals ever have an intelligent conversation before you resort to name calling?"

Sorry, pal, you don't get to claim "intelligent conversation" until you can hold up your end. right now, you're explaining where you got that bogus claim.

" No teachers got huge breaks from any stimulus directed there. Maybe another year of employment."

That's some funny shit, teach. lmao

Google the links yourself, go pick up the book, it has a pretty orange cover :)

Look, I was not a big fan of Clinton, but I believed he loved his country, and liked the traditional American dream. There are also numerous democrat politicians that I respected, despite some ideological differences. Obama is anti American, and he get's away with because he uses race as a shield. My opposition has nothing to do with his race, but his policies and beliefs. He is the first President in our history with his views, and until you liberals figure that out, your going to destroy the country.

Why don't you give reason to support liberal policies, and perhaps we can all have a rational discussion. I believe 30 percent should be the top marginal rate any income bracket should pay. Perhaps sports athletes should pay a surcharge on their income over a million, perhaps a 90 percent rate. Wait that affects to many minority millionaires, so that wont' happen under Obama. I usually let my wife handle the race card since, well she is an minority, and can avoid being cast as a bigot.

"That's some funny shit, teach"

Remember When Teachers, Public Employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS Crashed The Stock Market, Wiped Out Half Of Our 401Ks, Took Trillions In Taxpayer Funded Bail Outs, Spilled Oil In The Gulf Of Mexico, Gave Themselves Billions In Bonuses, And Paid No Taxes? Yeah, Me Neither

oh really danforth, I'm making up the numbers. Perhaps you should contact the CBO, the heritage foundation, or the cato institute for better explanations in all your "free time". All the people I know who got stimulus jobs are now unemployed again, so believe what you want. Bottom line is the market heads flat, unemployment trends back to 9 and Obama is out.

"Obama is anti American"

"oh really danforth, I'm making up the numbers."

Yes Hans, Obama is anti-American. I'm not a supporter of left wing policies from a man who spend most of life complimenting how the rest of the world lived.

So Hans, how has America oppressed you??? Please tell how you were held back. Is it your race? Is it your intellect? Is it your lack of drive?

If I'm making up the numbers danforth, please tell me what they are then, and who your source is? My source is the heritage foundation, cato, and national review. Your turn

"Yes Hans, Obama is anti-American."

Here is the exact quote

" 862,000 jobs created at an average cost of $282,000 per public sector job and $647,000 per private sector job
Four of five jobs created are in the public sector
Government spending is not correlated to areas of high unemployment, and
The rate of unemployment has reached 9.3 percent after peaking at 10 percent. "

"Perhaps sports athletes should pay a surcharge on their income over a million, perhaps a 90 percent rate. Wait that affects to many minority millionaires, so that wont' happen under Obama."

Probably because singling out one type of worker for a surcharge is a laughable idea; it makes you look like you don't belong in a discussion with the adults.

Come on Hans, no answer???? Poor Hans can't hack it on his own!!!!

"If I'm making up the numbers danforth..."

hey danforth, my comment was sarcastic, but also explains the racism against the white male in this country by the left.

"Come on Hans, no answer????"

Yep, a liar. Looks like Hans is at it again. Losers like yourself will never win, why don't you just try to change and make something of yourself.

"...the racism against the white male in this country by the left."

ROTFLMAO!!!

Poor, poor white men.

ROTFLMAO!!!

"Here is the exact quote"

And that passed the smell test? Nothing went for bridge materials like cables, or concrete, or truck rentals?

"but also explains the racism against the white male in this country by the left."

You're joking, right?

Are you poor Hans, do you need help??? Do you need someone to support your gaming habit???

"Yep, a liar."

Posted by Brian320

Glad you can see yourself.

You asked where I got that number and I told you. If you want to break down the other costs as I explained we can do that too. It's still money spent "math guy" and it's still a total cost to the tax payer. It still failed to achieve the goal Obama claimed. The stimulus was a sham, oh and btw did any non union business receive any of this stimulus???? Exactly.

"Do you need someone to support your gaming habit???"

As long as my "gaming habit" allows me to pwn people like you I don't think I need any "support."

Well Hans, you obviously are one of the bottom 1 percent. I do wish you the best in making something of yourself. I hope you accomplish something before the government pay checks dry up.

HANS geing his ass kicked yet again. Somethings never change.

"You asked where I got that number and I told you. If you want to break down the other costs as I explained we can do that too."

But my point is this: someone else with an agenda barfed bullshit numbers which included the hundreds of billions in tax cuts, and counted materials used in jobs created, i.e., if 10 guys work on a stretch costing 19.8 million in materials and .2 million on worker costs, this author is counting that as ten jobs at $2 million each.

"It's still money spent "math guy" and it's still a total cost to the tax payer. "

In that case, "cost per job" is a very bad and misleading barometer, isn't it?

"and btw did any non union business receive any of this stimulus????"

Of course they did. Are you tethered to reality at all?

"HANS geing his ass kicked yet again. Somethings never change."

LOKISFUR pretending Hans is getting his ass kicked. Some things never change.

"LOKISFUR pretending Hans is getting his ass kicked. Some things never change."

Yep... and thank you, Danforth.

the racism against the white male in this country by the left

*blink*

Really is that a threat Ray??? Typical of people who have an ideology that does not work.
#113 | POSTED BY BRIAN320

Government works? Coulda fooled me. I see clusterfucks everywhere I look.

RCADE we need a stupid irony flag.

#114 | POSTED BY ZATOICHI AT 2012-01-08 07:08 PM | REPLY | FLAG: Stupid irony.

FTFY

"HANS geing his ass kicked yet again."

Oops:

#167 | Posted by Hans

It's really too easy to live rent free in your skull. You should stay away from guys in white coats with big butterfly nets,

"It's really too easy to live rent free in your skull."

Oh, that's okay.

Barack Obama is living Rent Free in your skull.

Public Housing in action.

137--Did you understand the cynicism in my post? (sigh)

zed hasn't answered a direct question about himself ever.

#23 | Posted by eberly at 2012-01-08 03:38 PM

Check out this hilarity:

"Your" in the broader sense, reflecting the behavior and attitude often adopted by your "side".

"You" have been attempting to have it both ways, all ways, when it comes to Obama for three years. The mental and moral gymnastics involved stem from an active desire to see evil and doom in whatever Obama does, and whatever he doesn't do.

It paints "you" into corners all the time. You don't seem to mind. Maybe it's just good practice for the Possible President Romney.

That person will be a real asshole.

#54 | Posted by Zed at 2012-01-07 08:26 AM

#171 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

It's not funny at all: If Romney is elected President he WILL be a real asshole.

It's not funny at all: If Romney is elected President he WILL be a real asshole.

#172 | Posted by Zed at 2012-01-09 08:40 AM

WILL be a real asshole.

Posted by Zed at 2012-01-09 08:40 AM | Reply

"Will"... He already is, but not as big as Rick "Anal Seepage" Scrotorum.

Vote for this guy...

Danni, you never did answer Brian. What do you do for a living? Seems like a simple question to answer unless doing so makes you uncomfortable.

Danni, you never did answer Brian. What do you do for a living? Seems like a simple question to answer unless doing so makes you uncomfortable.

#176 | Posted by MUSTANG

Danni must work at night.

If not, then she's a thief who steals some rich persons valuable time because she's fucking off here instead of answering phones and stuff.

Why does it matter what Danni does for a living? Suddenly, the validity of our opinions is determined by what we do to make money? Hell, Brian didn't tell us what he does either, except that he owns his own business, employs around 30 people, and pays six figures in taxes. All of which is vague and sounds rather suspect.

I think it goes to a "living in a glass house and throwing stones" idea. Brian argued that he got where he was by the sweat of his brow and asked Danni why she thought he should be punished for having achieved success: had she not done those things she needed to do be be successful?

FYI, Brian didn't describe his business, but he did say that in addition to running a small business, he was also an airline pilot.

Politicians, especially the Democrats will never relinquish the ability to tax and play the class war in order to control their minions.

First of all the income tax is regressive, because under income tax systems you have higher inflation which is a tax on the poor and the middle class.

Texas has a sales tax system, and has low inflation because politicians cant make the claim that we will raise taxes on the rich to pay for this. So in Texas taxes on the goods and services you buy stay low which keeps inflation low.

Suddenly, the validity of our opinions is determined by what we do to make money?

#178 | Posted by pragmatist at 2012-01-09 10:02 AM

(j/k, you may now unknot thy panties)

I would prefer a sales tax system, although at a federal level the first priority would be spending reduction. With spending at current levels, the sales tax would be enormous and be both politically difficult to sell AND would likely stifle sales of new products for the first year or two, until people saw the money in their pockets gained by not paying income taxes. Proponents of the sales tax argue that the price of goods would go down as corporate taxes were no longer added to the price, but I'm cynical enough to believe corporations would just increase dividends and pad CEO golden parachutes for the first few years.

and pays six figures in taxes
#178 | Posted by pragmatist at 2012-01-09 10:02 AM

All of which is vague and sounds rather suspect.
#178 | Posted by pragmatist at 2012-01-09 10:02 AM

Hey, I pay six figures....but there's a decimal point in there!!

#183 | Posted by MUSTANG

Proponents of the sales tax argue that the price of goods would go down as corporate taxes were no longer added to the price, but I'm cynical enough to believe corporations would just increase dividends and pad CEO golden parachutes for the first few years.
------------
If that was true then the 300 dollar calculator from the seventies wouldn't cost ten dollars today

Whatever government spends has to be paid for in taxes. Arguing over the form of taxes is pointless when the amount of government spending is far beyond the means of taxpayers.

186, 187: Both correct. 902, I was talking in the very short term (a year or two). Unfortunately, a new tax system would be judged by the public and press very harshly in those initial years and might never get a chance to prove successful. Ray: spot on and I said that in 183. You have to get the spending under control before you can initiate a major change to the tax code.

#188 | Posted by MUSTANG

186, 187: Both correct. 902, I was talking in the very short term (a year or two). Unfortunately, a new tax system would be judged by the public and press very harshly in those initial years and might never get a chance to prove successful. Ray: spot on and I said that in 183. You have to get the spending under control before you can initiate a major change to the tax code.
--------
Yes, I agree the 1st 2 years would fall under lots of scrutiny.

"First of all the income tax is regressive, because under income tax systems you have higher inflation which is a tax on the poor and the middle class."

Baloney, pure and simple.

Brian just stfu and pay your taxes. Im entitled to my cut of your tax money to help me achieve the American dream too. I work but need a little boost to help me make ends meet.
#37 | POSTED BY JACKASS
And I'm entitled to have parasites like you burned at the stake.

#44 | POSTED BY RAY

The world doesn't work that Ray and never has. The last 5000 years if you accumulate more and people find out about it, they burn down your house, took your gold and raped your wife and sold your children into slavery. If you think for a second that going without any form of government would prevent these types of actions happen again you are fucking stupid. A libertarian gold standard world with little or no government is a dream to you but in reality would quickly be a nightmare.

Why does it matter what Danni does for a living? Suddenly, the validity of our opinions is determined by what we do to make money? Hell, Brian didn't tell us what he does either, except that he owns his own business, employs around 30 people, and pays six figures in taxes. All of which is vague and sounds rather suspect.

#178 | Posted by pragmatist at 2012-01-09 10:02 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

It gives insight into where people are coming from and what their motivations are in life. It also gives you an indication of their educational background. Note, the level of education doesn't necessarily mean intelligence, in my opinion.

Danni, if I recall correctly, holds a job roughly based on photocopying and performing minor administrative tasks.

This, of course, is post her running a "successful" business into the ground, because she prefers the working class life style, to that of a successful business owner (in reality, as she orginally posted, the demise of her company largely stemed from prohibitivly high insurance and employee related expenses).

The Fair Tax does exactly THAT...and eliminates the IRS.

Bullshit. The IRS will still be used to enforce the "Fair" tax.

"The Fair Tax does exactly THAT...and eliminates the IRS. "

One would have to be an idiot to believe tax collection efforts will cease. And consider this: the IRS is currently only concerned with a handful of transactions. The newly-formed FTRS will be concerned with ALL transactions, and will have to be empowered to investigate them all, including barter and the black market, which you've just radially incentivized overnight.

In that case, "cost per job" is a very bad and misleading barometer, isn't it?

It never stopped them before.

I just love it when someone trots out "The Top 1% pay x% of the taxes." as an indictment that the tax system is unfair with never detailing what % of all income and wealth the top 1% control.

One would have to be an idiot to believe tax collection efforts will cease.

The "Fair" tax loons think that it is fair. That defines them as idiots.

726, I'm not that well-versed in the Fair Tax (haven't read the books, etc) so I'm curious as to why people say it isn't fair.

"Said the union teacher."

It's okay--you're allowed.

"Did he seriously post that?"

It's possible that I misread.
+++++

"It gives insight into where people are coming from and what their motivations are in life."

Really, I am defined by my job? Huh.

But note, I asked about validity.

"It also gives you an indication of their educational background. Note, the level of education doesn't necessarily mean intelligence, in my opinion."

Then so what? Why does someone's education background matter to an argument? A conservative is making this argument? Really? Your second sentence there is spot-on, and I'd extend it to "It doesn't necessarily mean one's insight is more valid than the next person's."

"I'm curious as to why people say (The Fair Tax) isn't fair."

1. It adds a 30% sales tax, but calls it a 23% tax.
2. It imposes unprecedented intra-governmental taxes.
3. It assumes a 20% growth spurt in the economy overnight, without even accounting for what might be called "conversion confusion".
4. It's based on the idea we all spend one-fifth of our time on tax issues. One-fifth!
5. It falsely suggests tax collection will go away; on the contrary, the new FTRS would be MUCH more powerful than the IRS...they'd have to be, to legally investigate all the taxable events.
6. It's revenue-neutral, which means there will be some huge winners and some huge losers. The FT pretends there are only winners.
7. It taxes consumption, which is the driving engine of this economy.

Oh, and the rich pay less under the FT.

People who support national sales taxes/flat taxes/etc are either useful idiots who don't understand mariginal utility as it applies to money or worse yet, total scumbags who do understand and just don't give a shit about what that means for the working class.

Either way, they are tiresome braying asses.

People who support national sales taxes/flat taxes/etc are either useful idiots who don't understand mariginal utility as it applies to money or worse yet, total scumbags who do understand and just don't give a shit about what that means for the working class.

Either way, they are tiresome braying asses.

#200 | Posted by Sully

Expanding the tax base so that everyone living in this country has the same stake in the amount the federal government spends.

Yeah, what a stupid concept.....

Then so what? Why does someone's education background matter to an argument? A conservative is making this argument? Really? Your second sentence there is spot-on, and I'd extend it to "It doesn't necessarily mean one's insight is more valid than the next person's."

#198 | Posted by pragmatist at 2012-01-09 02:31 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

That's why I made the second statement.

Education does, however, give a solid indication of ones understanding of a topic. I don't go to my mechanic to tell me how to get rid of strep throat. Likewise, I don't go to my GP to figure out why my car is rattling, even though he may be a car guy on the weekends.

Education matters when arm chair quarterbacks, like Danni, start weighing in on international finance and fiscal policy issues. She just can't see the whole picture. I read her posts, try to see her side, but can't. She's just doesn't understand all of the fundamentals.

One's insight is not more "valid", everyone can think what they want to, than someone else's but, in some cases, there is a right and wrong answer. People who are educated, generally, have the "right" answer, in their respective field, when compared to those who do not have the formal training in that field.

"Expanding the tax base so that everyone living in this country has the same stake in the amount the federal government spends. Yeah, what a stupid concept....."

Tell me about it. You pay more in federal taxes on your last dollar of wages than Warren Buffett does on his last dollar of dividends.

#199 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

I get all that...those are reasons arguing the Fair Tax isn't all it's cracked up to be. It really doesn't go to the root question of fairness. Seems like the argument against fairness is that rich people spend less of their income and would wind up paying less. I would counter that the really rich earn their money through dividends (which you pointed out), and so a consumption-based tax would hurt them more than an income-based tax.

FTRS/IRS...I don't like the powers bestowed upon either..particularly the ones bestowed by fiat. My question is: who polices the state tax collection process in states with no state income tax? Wouldn't the policing fall to the retailers themselves, just like it does now?

"I would counter that the really rich earn their money through dividends (which you pointed out), and so a consumption-based tax would hurt them more than an income-based tax."

But if they save, or transfer the money out of the country (travel to Europe), they'd avoid American taxes entirely. Too many unintended consequences.

"who polices the state tax collection process in states with no state income tax?"

It's via other venues, like tolls, fees, property taxes, sales taxes, sin taxes, and/or portfolio taxes.

"One's insight is not more "valid", everyone can think what they want to, than someone else's but, in some cases, there is a right and wrong answer. People who are educated, generally, have the "right" answer, in their respective field, when compared to those who do not have the formal training in that field."

Formal training? So you agree with the educated, degreed economists out there who say that Obama is doing the right thing? Cool. Good to know. ; )

But seriously, in politics, it's not about education level; it's about being informed, by and large, and having critical thinking skills. My mechanic actually has a pretty solid understanding of many political issues, sometimes more deep than mine, and I have at least one more degree than he does. I will say this, though: I don't pretend to understand economics well enough to engage in discussions, so I don't do so. Or only on very superficial topics. A great many posters here know more than I do on the topic, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have a higher level of education than I do.

I would counter that the really rich earn their money through dividends (which you pointed out), and so a consumption-based tax would hurt them more than an income-based tax.

Who spends more as a % of their income:

a) A family of 4 making $50,000

b) A family of 4 making $50,000,000

There will be your answer.

"Expanding the tax base so that everyone living in this country has the same stake in the amount the federal government spends. Yeah, what a stupid concept....."

Another believer in the false assumption that someone pays no taxes.

726, I'm not that well-versed in the Fair Tax (haven't read the books, etc) so I'm curious as to why people say it isn't fair.

#197 | POSTED BY MUSTANG AT 2012-01-09 02:22 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Danforth covered it well.

My main argument against it, is that it lies to you at the outset about the rate.

It is a 30% tax on what you buy, but the authors attempt to pass it off as a 23% tax by taking the tax as a % of the total price including the tax.

$1 x 30% = .30 + 1.00 = $1.30

$.30 / $1.30 = 23%.

Any tax scheme that has to lie about the rate at the outset is ripe to be full of lies and distortions.

"One's insight is not more "valid", everyone can think what they want to, than someone else's but, in some cases, there is a right and wrong answer. People who are educated, generally, have the "right" answer, in their respective field, when compared to those who do not have the formal training in that field."

Formal training? So you agree with the educated, degreed economists out there who say that Obama is doing the right thing? Cool. Good to know. ; )

But seriously, in politics, it's not about education level; it's about being informed, by and large, and having critical thinking skills. My mechanic actually has a pretty solid understanding of many political issues, sometimes more deep than mine, and I have at least one more degree than he does. I will say this, though: I don't pretend to understand economics well enough to engage in discussions, so I don't do so. Or only on very superficial topics. A great many posters here know more than I do on the topic, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have a higher level of education than I do.

#206 | Posted by pragmatist at 2012-01-09 05:39 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Ha Ha Not exactly. There certianly are other formally trained economists and financial gurus that disagree with O and his policies. : )

Once again, we don't disagree.

I do like your note to critical thinking skills.

I think that anyone with common sense could see that solving a debt problem with more debt is just delaying the inevitable and making it worse.

Bush started this shit train and Obama is stoking the fire. It's a mess. People shouldn't need formal training to see it coming down the tracks. And yet, here we are. We're waiting for it to come crashing down on us.

"Expanding the tax base so that everyone living in this country has the same stake in the amount the federal government spends.

Yeah, what a stupid concept....."

That you don't understand that grammar school level math I was referencing in my post is evident from this reply. You aren't qualified to tell me what is stupid and what isn't.

"Danni, if I recall correctly, holds a job roughly based on photocopying and performing minor administrative tasks."

Stupid people comment on things they know absolutely nothing about. You could not do my job. That is a fact.

"There certianly are other formally trained economists and financial gurus that disagree with O and his policies. : )"

And there are plenty who do agree because they are not compromised by institutions like Heritage, etc.

And there are plenty who do agree because they are not compromised by institutions like Heritage, etc.

Posted by danni at 2012-01-10 09:35 AM | Reply

Haven't you heard? Heritage has been schilling for big government fascism lately...

Stupid people comment on things they know absolutely nothing about. You could not do my job. That is a fact.

And there are plenty who do agree because they are not compromised by institutions like Heritage, etc.

#214 | Posted by danni at 2012-01-10 09:35 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

I'm just going by what you previously posted. I'm sure I could figure it out, unless it requires a vag. Are you a hooker? I didn't think so but...

Yea, I'm sure they're completely unbiased. Think for yourself, Danni.

"Hmmmmm I'm saddled with debt, how can I get out of this? Yea, more debt and increased expenses, that seems like a reasonable answer."

-morons

For the record, the only think I've ever read from Heritage is one article that someone else linked on this site.

I don't need someone else to tell me what to think about this shit show. Just watch the news, preferrably something with the least bias like BBC, and use common sense. Tough, I know.

think = thing

The Fair Tax is hardly fair to the millions of people who are living off of their retirement savings. These people have already paid income taxes on those saving for their entire lives. Why should they have it all taxed again as they spend it?

Do you think Boortz is going to retire in the US, where he has to pay taxes on that money all over again? I doubt it.

#219 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT

There. Finally a good example. I agree with you on that point. Definitely not fair to tax pre-taxed earnings. By that same token, it's not fair to tax it when you die and will it to your kids, either.

The only fair income tax is no income tax. It's a major source of funds for this cancerous government out ours. Like all cancerous growths, it needs to be cut out.

By that same token, it's not fair to tax it when you die and will it to your kids, either.

#220 | Posted by MUSTANG

It should be considered new income to the heirs.

It should be considered new income to the heirs and taxed at normal income tax rates.

"The Fair Tax is hardly fair to the millions of people who are living off of their retirement savings. These people have already paid income taxes on those saving for their entire lives. Why should they have it all taxed again as they spend it?"

Because the people who own our government don't want to give up on their corporate welfare but also want to keep their personal tax cuts.

"The only fair income tax is no income tax."

And how should the government fund itself?

Isn't it obvious, the only fair tax, is to let the feds take 100% and then reallocate it based on need.

And how should the government fund itself?

#225 | Posted by Danforth at 2012-01-10 12:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

All taxes should be voluntary. If you can't run your fucking bloated vainglorious government on what the citizenry deem its worthy of, you shouldn't be allowed to have your government.

We'd all be just fine without it.

Government does not create Society, Societies merely permit Government.

"The Fair Tax is hardly fair to the millions of people who are living off of their retirement savings. These people have already paid income taxes on those saving for their entire lives. Why should they have it all taxed again as they spend it?"

You obviously don't understand the Fair Tax. If people have been putting their money into savings, they have NOT paid taxes on it. As the Fair Tax is a consumption tax and NOT and income tax, it won't be taxed until the retiree starts spending it.

I mean, if the government didn't grow all the food, people would obviously starve to death.

If the government didn't make shoes, no one would have shoes.

"And how should the government fund itself?"

C'mon, Danny, lets be intellectually honest here. The Fair Tax will provide the government's funds. I know you're a little weak on taxes, in spite of the 300+ tax clients you "advise," but you KNOW that the Fair Tax is designed to replace the Income Tax. Of course it's easyto see what would happen to tax "advisors" like yourself if the Fair Tax comes to be...they would become UNNECESSARY...LOL

"You obviously don't understand the Fair Tax. If people have been putting their money into savings, they have NOT paid taxes on it. As the Fair Tax is a consumption tax and NOT and income tax, it won't be taxed until the retiree starts spending it."

You didn't understand the comment. People are paying income taxes now. I've already paid income taxes on my savings. If you switch to a regressive flat tax system now then I would be taxed a 2nd time on that money when I go to spend it.

"The Fair Tax will provide the government's funds."

How? By taxing all intra-governmental purchases? By crawling around looking for EVERY transaction, not just the deductible ones the IRS cares about? And if it's revenue neutral, as it claims, you'll have to admit there will be huge winners and huge losers, right? Who wins, and who loses?

"I know you're a little weak on taxes,"

Too rich: You can't even tell me what a $1000 computer will cost the day after the FT takes effect. And the FT isn't intellectually honest: they call a 30% sales tax a 23% "inclusive" tax, and why? 30% didn't market well.

"Of course it's easyto see what would happen to tax "advisors" like yourself if the Fair Tax comes to be"

Bwahahahaha! I'd rake the money in for a few years teaching the ins and outs of the new system, and then I'd retire. Morons who think the tax collectors are going away will be lining up in droves.

"All taxes should be voluntary. "

And let me guess, you'd "volunteer" to pay nothing.

"Too rich: You can't even tell me what a $1000 computer will cost the day after the FT takes effect. And the FT isn't intellectually honest: they call a 30% sales tax a 23% "inclusive" tax, and why? 30% didn't market well."

Not so, Danny...but then I knew you would have trouble with things like numbers when I saw that you didn't know the difference between an ad valorem and a transactional tax so that I had to tutor you AGAIN.Do those 300+ tax clients know how ignorant you really are. I think they'd be a lot better off with Turbo Tax.

"Bwahahahaha! I'd rake the money in for a few years teaching the ins and outs of the new system, and then I'd retire."

LOL...teaching to who? First off, no IRS, no forms to fill out, no reports for average citizens to file. Besides, it only involves some 200 pages, not millions of pages like the current system. Seeing as how you don't understand it anyway, you won't be "teaching" anyone very much. You should be glad that you'll have more time for those enormous acting roles, handling those billions of dollars for your investment clints, serving those three unions you represent, and increasing your expertise in meteorology, astronomy, and history.

It should be considered new income to the heirs.

#222 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT

That's a load of crap the government uses to justify theft. They taxed the money once already. They should have no more right to it in the hands of an heir than they do in the hands of the originator.

#235 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2012-01-10 12:56 PM

Why should those born rich get a free ride? Why should they get exemptions on income tax just because it's inherited? Why are you so enamored with the aristocratic system that our founders fought and bled to get us out of?

"That's a load of crap the government uses to justify theft."

ANOTHER reason to support the Fair Tax:

No gift or estate taxes.
AND
No federal income taxes.
No payroll taxes.
No capital gains taxes.
No self-employment taxes.
Noalternative minimum taxes.
No corporate taxes. (Think of all the new jobs! Corporations will flock to the U.S.))
No withholding from paychecks.

Hoe can anybody NOT like a plan that gets rid of the IRS and April 15th????

"They taxed the money once already."

Using that logic, I shouldn't have to pay taxes on my income, since my clients have already paid income taxes on their money.

Why are you so enamored with the aristocratic system that our founders fought and bled to get us out of?
#236 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY

Please, they fought so that we could have our own aristocrats.

"Hoe can anybody NOT like a plan that gets rid of the IRS and April 15th????"

It wouldn't get rid of the IRS and anyone who finished primary school should know enough math to see how it disproportionately targets the working class.

"Hoe can anybody NOT like a plan that gets rid of the IRS"

Because the IRS is only concerned with a few transactions, and their minions only allowed to investigate those. With the FTRS, every transaction would be taxable, and therefore every one subject to investigation. You cannot create MORE taxable events and then pretend the tax collectors are going to become LESS powerful.

"not millions of pages like the current system"

Millions of pages?!? Why do FT proponents always have to lie to make their case?

"You should be glad that you'll have more time for those enormous acting roles, handling those billions of dollars for your investment clints, serving those three unions you represent, and increasing your expertise in meteorology, astronomy, and history."

Whereas the only thing you ever get to look forward to is your daily pantload.

"The only fair income tax is no income tax."
And how should the government fund itself?
#225 | Posted by Danforth

That's the whole point to cut off funding. It's become a monster that's eating away at the fiber of this nation.

"Why should they get exemptions on income tax just because it's inherited?"

Quiz question for Dearth:

You are the heir of a business owner who owns manufacturing plants that he built up in four cities over sixty years. They have a value of two billion dollars, He owns stock worth a hundred million and cash in the bank amounting to a hundred thousand dollars. How much tax and when is it due upon your benefator's death? Look it up and see what it REALLY entails before you answer. I'll give you a hint, the estate tax rate was 35% in 2011 and the exemption was five million. Use those figures.

"That's the whole point to cut off funding."

Why, if that were to happen, gold would soar due to the ensuing chaos.

"I'll give you a hint, the estate tax rate was 35% in 2011 and the exemption was five million. Use those figures."

Why? No one with that much worth voluntarily pays the highest rate, and there is a smorgasbord of tax-deferring, delaying, and avoidance choices for folks in that bracket. Why don't you find an actual case from that time, and see how much was paid in taxes.

The world doesn't work that Ray and never has. The last 5000 years if you accumulate more and people find out about it, they burn down your house, took your gold and raped your wife and sold your children into slavery. If you think for a second that going without any form of government would prevent these types of actions happen again you are fucking stupid. A libertarian gold standard world with little or no government is a dream to you but in reality would quickly be a nightmare.
#191 | Posted by Legio

Here's another asshole trying to tell me how the world works. There is no cure for human corruption and violence except an old fashioned financial collapse and a lot of dead bodies. Empires come and they go.

"You cannot create MORE taxable events and then pretend the tax collectors are going to become LESS powerful."

I know the concept is difficult for you, in spite of the fact you skipped the sixth grade (or was it eighth grade,) and were given credit for college, you are not bright enough to comprehend matters like the sunrise in the East and the Fair Tax. We've been through this before and talking to you is like trying to teach a pig to sing. I think I'll go read a book and catch a nap. You need to get off the computer and read your scripts, practice your acting roles, service your tax clients, manage the billion dollar assets of your financial clients, meet with the three unions you represent...do SOMETHING constructive. It appears to us that you are either cheating all these folks or you are just full of shit.

Why, if that were to happen, gold would soar due to the ensuing chaos.
#246 | Posted by Danforth

The income tax only excerbated those inevitable events. The bigger a government gets, the the harder it falls.

"We've been through this before"

And you still can't answer the most basic of questions, like how much will a $1000 computer cost?

"I think I'll go read a book and catch a nap."

We all gravitate towards our strengths.

They taxed the money once already. They should have no more right to it in the hands of an heir than they do in the hands of the originator.

#235 | Posted by MUSTANG

For the last few years most heirs have not paid any taxes on their inheritance. Why should they get that money tax free?

They taxed the money once already. They should have no more right to it in the hands of an heir than they do in the hands of the originator.

What a total bullshit argument. Money is taxed multiple times all the times as money changes hands.

Every time property changes hands it is taxed, so stop being ignorant. Because someone is rich doesn't give their offspring the right to gain wealth tax free because of the benefit of having a rich parent. Get a clue.

I realize that's the case right now, but how long until it's back to the rates of 10 years ago? At today's ballpark rates, if you own about 750 acres of prime Iowa cornfields, you're at $5,000,000. Throw in a million dollars plus worth of harvesters, seeders, tractors, cultivators, etc etc etc...

You can find ways to divvy it up to avoid some of the estate tax pain, but not all of it (the equipment in particular). I have a dear old friend buying the family farm one piece at a time, knowing it will save he and his family in the long run.

I'm not so libertarian that I don't see the value in trust-fund babies paying some taxes..everyone (and I mean everyone) should have skin in the game, but there are not a lot of Paris Hiltons out there.

What a total bullshit argument. Money is taxed multiple times all the times as money changes hands.
Every time property changes hands it is taxed, so stop being ignorant

Taxed 'when money changes hands' in exchange for something (goods or services). FTFY.

For the last few years most heirs have not paid any taxes on their inheritance. Why should they get that money tax free?

#252 | Posted by Whatsleft

I'm sure most people know what I meant, but...

Correction:

For the last few years most estates have not paid any taxes on the assets. Why should the heirs get that money tax free?

"Taxed 'when money changes hands' in exchange for something (goods or services)"

Not necessarily. Taxes can be due on gifts you give to other people.

True enough, above a certain limit. Learned that from the Shawshank Redemption....

I love this statement for it's obvious conservative caricature of reality...

" Problem is that all the free riders, (low income, lazy, illegals, ok most of the democratic voting block) would no longer be able to live off the hard work of others"...

It never ceases to amaze me how the conservates love to lump any and all that dont agree with them into derogatory categories...

and we wonder why it is impossible to get along with, or to
generate respect for these people...

p.s. I'm a liberal democrat that pulls down 90k+ a year,
and gets up at 4 a.m. every morning to go to work...commuting
2 hrs each way to work...

p.p.s. stick that in your conservative pipe and smoke it...

They won't believe you, Earth. Give up now.

Or they'll assert that you must be stupid and stealing taxpayer money.

Earthmuse....

How is it that the liberal mind can talk its into agreeing that they have a say as to what is done with property that is not theirs.

You may do what ever you want with what is yours.

But you don't get to decide what I do with mine.

If you wish to support the welfare state, go ahead.

I wish do destroy the welfare state so its not a way to live for your whole life.

You want to pay for criminal Illegal aliens and their associated costs.

I want a shoot to kill border policy.

You don't care who votes.

I want voter ID cards.

You think the O.W.S. crowd is right about Corporations and their profits by way of commerce.

I think the O.W.S. crowd should stop BUYING food to prove how right they are.

All of Europe is on its knees from policies that you and your lib friends want to implement here.

Why would you WANT that, do you not "get it" that those policies HAVE failed miserably in the 25 plus countries that have tried what you propose.

You and your Lib friends keep saying Europe is so far ahead of us on social issues.

Yea I can see that, so who in their RIGHT F_ _KING MIND wants to catch up with Europe.

This is the difference between Liberals and Conservatives.

Lib think we should ALL suffer together in some kind of group hug singing Kumbaya where all resources are shared equally regardless of the effort of the individual.

Conservatives think you should keep your stinking, starving, drug ridden ass over there until you get the idea that we are willing to help you, right after you show you are willing to help yourself and not DEMAND that people give you their property.

.....NOPE in November....

#261 | Posted by MENSAKOOK

Your posts are too long to read. Sorry.

#261 | Posted by MENSAKOOK

Your posts are too long to read. Sorry.

#262 | Posted by nullifidian

Kinda like a Job Application.....huh.

.....NOPE in November.....

It seems to me that Mr. Danforth is very Pro-tax, maybe he is getting paid from other peoples taxes.

Maybe his health care is paid for by the tax payer too.

Maybe even his pension is tax payer funded.

You know how that works, he puts in a dollar and the tax payer puts in $25 to match it.

All state workers and teachers pay/contract are on line if you know the state.

Maybe you "PAYERS" should take a look at what and how much you are paying for.....you won't be happy.

....NOPE in November.....

"It seems to me that Mr. Danforth is very Pro-tax"

I'm all for reforming the tax code or even the entire tax system. But don't try to tell me a 30% sales tax is a 23% tax (because 30% didn't market well), don't tell me the new system is revenue-neutral and then pretend there will only be winners, and don't propose something which taxes more transactions while claiming the tax collectors will suddenly vanish.

"maybe he is getting paid from other peoples taxes."

I get paid for saving people money on their taxes.

"Maybe his health care is paid for by the tax payer too. Maybe even his pension is tax payer funded."

Nope. Earned all of them, and have to qualify for health care every year, but I'm almost up to 2014.

"You know how that works, he puts in a dollar and the tax payer puts in $25 to match it."

I'm familiar with a lot of different pension plans. You're making that up. Why?

Repeal the sixteenth amendment and enact the Fair Tax and heal this economy!

Come on Danforth the word was maybe, lighten up.

Every tax payer in every state needs to know how much we all really spend on people who are paid by our taxes.

And the money put in to a pension by a person (Depending on age when the retire) can easily be exhausted by the person living a long time after retirement,

At that point the system paying this persons retirement is losing money every day, multiply that across the whole system and the losses are crippling to the tax payer.

But you know that....

......NOPE in November....

"Come on Danforth the word was maybe, lighten up."

Then maybe you're a dick? Maybe you're insulting?

"Every tax payer in every state needs to know how much we all really spend on people who are paid by our taxes."

And as you pointed out, that information is readily available.

"And the money put in to a pension by a person (Depending on age when the retire) can easily be exhausted by the person living a long time after retirement, At that point the system paying this persons retirement is losing money every day, multiply that across the whole system and the losses are crippling to the tax payer."

Bullshit. Every industrial pension plan hires actuaries to account for longevity and the balance of income and outgo. You're pretending they're surprised by it.

"But you know that."

Good God, you are one stupid son-of-a-bitch. Spreading misinformation, and smugly. At long last, have you no shame?