Freedom has a price.

P.S. - were you this upset when Gray Davis was recalled?

Hey no sweat off Dems they are the pros at spending others people money.

I wonder how many federal dollars will be used for the presidential election of '12? How many tax dollars will the GOP waste with their destined to fail clown-car candidate?

"It's about time taxpayers learned the cost of these unnecessary recall elections"

If there enough valid signatures on the recall petition, then the recall is NECESSARY.

I'm so sorry that some people have awakened to discover they live in a democracy.

But, to the extent that people like Walker are concerned about that $9 million, he can always resign and save everyone the expense of kicking his ass out.

#4 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY I wonder how many federal dollars will be used for the presidential election of '12?

WTF Answer very few. non incumbent's pay their own way. Hell let's just crown Obama King and cut the cost of these elections. Are you going to get dumber as the election nears?

How much has Berry spent jetting around the country fund raising and giving political speeches

5 | Posted by Zed

This could back fire on the Unions and Dems if they don't prevail.

Freedom isn't free fat-ass.

Hey no sweat off Dems they are the pros at spending others people money.
#3 | Posted by paneocon

.....we spent a trillion dollars bringing democracy to Iraq......

........nine million to bring democracy to Wisconsin, is chump change compared to the Republican Party's gift to the people of Iraq.........

This is a fight for the very makeup of the US. If we don't change course we will end up like Canada and Europe. The bureaucracy is very powerful and won't go away easily if it goes away all all. The one thing we have that might help us reverse course is the state system. The states are going broke especially the liberal states so they will be forced to make changes to the public sector, which will hurt the Democrats election changes at the federal level.

Our stock exchange was number one in IPOs and now thanks to the Feds we are 3rd. If we don't get this bureaucracy under control the same will happen to the whole US economy.

This is a fight for the very makeup of the US. If we don't change course we will end up like Canada and Europe.
#10 | Posted by 90c2cab

......I've lived in both Canada and Europe.....

....Canada and most of western Europe have a higher standard of living than we do.....you don't know what you are talking about.......

If we don't change course we will end up like....
#10 | Posted by 90c2cab

......if we keep on Republicanizing America, we will end up like Mexico in a few years......

.......and a few years after that, like India or Pakistan, that is where ultimate survival of the fitest leads to.......a downward spiral for the vast majority.......

This could back fire on the Unions and Dems if they don't prevail.

#7 | Posted by paneocon

I suppose. But lying down, playing doggo, and letting Walker hump our passive asses had it's downside as well.

But your comment is interesting. It's another expression of Obama Mania, the "conservastive" delusion that whatever the opposition does has some dire outcome, regardless of it's nature.

It's not a sign of craziness, but dishonesty.

What, no mention of the cost associated with the failed recall attempts against democrat state senators? What about the costs associated with running fake candidates in the recalls to force a primary and delay the vote?

#13 | Posted by Zed

The dishonesty is the Unions and Democrats who can't accept the outcome of an election. Any honest appraisal of Scott Walkers time in office would have to admit that he has turned a large debt into a balanced budget, he has increased the job market in WI and he has reduced taxes when the dems were going to have a tax increase. He has ask public service unions to contribute very small additions to their health care and pension costs while retaining most of the jobs in the public service sector. Where is the fraud, where is the moral crisis, where is the lack of leadership that would warrant a recall? Where is the Obama recall if judged by the same criteria. Spoiled baby Democrats egged on by greedy unions are spending the people of WI tax dollars on revenge and the people of WI may decide that Dems have overstepped and the color of WI may get a little redder for a long time.

"The dishonesty is the Unions and Democrats who can't accept the outcome of an election."

What a crock of shit. The dishonesty was Walker keeping his actual agenda secret. Why didn't he lay out his plan to gut public sector Unions on the campaign trail?

"Where is the fraud, where is the moral crisis, where is the lack of leadership that would warrant a recall?"

Pick up a newspaper, for God's sake. Or use teh googles. As it turns out, the public doesn't like stealth candidates who only reveal their real plans after taking office.

"He has ask public service unions to contribute very small additions to their health care and pension costs while retaining most of the jobs in the public service sector."

He asked, pushed, forced, then when the unions agreed, pushed and forced even harder, reducing/eliminating collective bargaining rights established by law. You make it sound so innocent, when it wasn't. If you're gonna call out one side for bad behavior, you should be honest and cop to bad behavior on the other side, too.

Just sayin'.

And if the state gets redder, so be it. That's politics in 21st-century America.

"The dishonesty is the Unions and Democrats who..."

Your posts sound more and more like chimichanga-and-frijoles-cheap beer induced fart in an arid wind blowing along the coast at Coatzacoalcos on a hot summer day.

The dishonesty is the Unions and Democrats who can't accept the outcome of an election.

#15 | Posted by paneocon at 2012

The dishonesty is wholly Walker's. He should campaign on what he intends to do, especially if the actions wll be very major indeed.

The lying SOB didn't do that. He didn't do that for the obvious reason: The lying SOB wanted to be governor, and telling the truth did nothing to advance that.

To hell with him.

" Spoiled baby Democrats egged on by greedy unions are spending the people of WI tax dollars..."

Where were you when the Rs were spending WI tax dollars on trying to recall Democrats? Oh...right...silent.

"...the people of WI may decide that Dems have overstepped and the color of WI may get a little redder for a long time."

Um, don't look now, but with successful recalls of two Republican state senators the state just got a little bluer.

I don't mind people disagreeing with the recall on principle, but to say it shouldn't happen because it costs money is ridiculous. Taxpaying voters are exercising their rights to a recall election, following the requirements as laid out in Wisconsin laws. If enough people don't like the current rules for recall, then they need to work to get the rules changed. Whining about people following the rules is silly.

#14 | Posted by dylanfan

Dems started this and requested the most recalls. They should get the bigger blame. It too bad the RNC and the DNC would not have to pay for this. This nonsense would stop right away. Politicians are not good at spending their own money.

I also wonder if the phrase "Freedom isn't free" only applies to soldiers' lives.

"Dems started this"

How can anyone possibly have their head that far up their ass?

The dishonesty is wholly Walker's. He should campaign on what he intends to do, #19 | Posted by Zed

The way Barry did, I'm all for signing up for a recall on Obama on that criteria.

#24 | Posted by Danforth

I wonder that about you all the time, Must hurt your back?

But the dishonest use of fake candidates to force primaries and additional elections was wholly a republican strategy, endorsed by the state senate majority leader, no less.

"I wonder that about you all the time"

Wow, the "I know you are but what am I defense". Well played; on to second grade for you!

But really? Dems started this?!? How, by forcing Walker to lie on the campaign trail?

Dems started this

#22 | POSTED BY PANEOCON AT 2012-01-08 10:06 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Unwad your panties Pantycon. Just be happy that the recall laws aren't the same across the country. The people in many states are so regretful about having elected Teahadist's to office that the recall discussion has popped up in no less than 6 other states.

Perfect? No, but warranting of a recall?

"The DEMOCRATS in many states are so regretful about having elected Teahadist's to office that the recall discussion has popped up in no less than 6 other states."

FTFY
You may not be aware, but democrats aren't really doing all that well since they elected the Great Community Organizer. Take a look in those "battlground" states and and see how many voters are "regretful" they voted for him.

"In November, 36.0% of American Adults identified themselves as Republicans; 34.7% considered themselves Democrats, and 29.3% were not affiliated with either major party. That’s the largest number of Republicans since February 2005 and the first time ever that Rasmussen Reports polling has found more people identifying as Republicans than Democrats."

I didn't sign a recall petition because I belong to a union. I signed one because I believe Governor Walker exaggerated a budget problem, used it to attack public unions (with whom he already had a very frosty relationship) in a way that leaders in his own party thought was extreme and unnecessary, wasn't forthcoming about the extent of his plan while he was running, and as a result, I see less money in my pocketbook each month and will have my wages legally limited for the rest of my life in a way that will, over time, set me at an extreme disadvantage against private sector workers, who, by the way, only seem to care what I earn in a down economy and never in a boom economy.

"The way Barry did, I'm all for signing up for a recall on Obama on that criteria."

On what did Barry campaign that since became untrue? Now be careful. Timelines get fucked by other factors; the president has only so much power in reality. Most of the things about which conservatives are pissed are things that he said he would do, or try to push through Congress: healthcare, for instance.

And if you really think he betrayed the American people, start an impeachment campaign. That's a presidential version of recall, right?
+++++

Btw, I'm struck by something here. The other day I argued with someone (Eb?) about politics in one state affecting politics in another or in the nation as a whole. I started with a poor example: California. Then I modified. But the situations in Wisconsin and Ohio (to name just two) are perfect examples of "intra-influence" (if I can make up a term). These stories are playing out in the national media and will have an impact on American politics. The argument about budget vs. obligations, the argument about political influence of unions, the argument about power dynamics between unions and employers--all will be echoed in politics for years to come. And actions will happen as a result, too. If Walker is recalled, the next state governor to consider such action will think twice. If Walker survives the recall, the next state governor to consider such action will be emboldened. This is a situation that clearly illustrates the rightness of Eb's (if it was Eb) argument.

I'm all for signing up for a recall on Obama on that criteria.
#25 | Posted by paneocon

Re-read your US Constitution.

There's no recall.

But there is an election, in ten months.

One you'll rue wishing for, I suspect.

32--And public sector workers will leave the state, perhaps in droves. And then who will be left? Those who can't get jobs in other places or those who are too lazy to up and move. (And to some degree, those who have family or other emotional connections and don't want to give up on their home.) If the majority are in my first two proposed categories--now I'm talking about schools--we could see a (greater) drop in quality and further criticism and, eventually, the destruction of the public school system in Wisconsin. Then we can make it all about "market solutions"! Yaaaay! If I were of a different mindset, I would suggest that such was the plan all along. Certainly, it's clear that Walker's goal is at least partly to reduce the power of unions in his state.

Let’s be honest and stop regurgitating the Dem talking points

State ends 2008-2010 fiscal year with $2.7B budget deficit
Wisconsin Policy Research Institute predicts $2.2 billion deficit for 2011-13 biennium

The Department of Administration's Comprehensive Annual Financial Report shows Wisconsin's budget deficit for the 2008-09 fiscal year at $2.7 billion, an 8 percent increase over the previous year's $2.5 billion deficit.

#35 | Posted by pragmatist

Damn, Prag...I see Columbia U. has cancelled the class in Occupy Wall Street. What a disappointment. Maybe they just couldn't see the "merit" in the class that you did. Tell me true now, Prag...are you sorry you ever said that? :-)

"Certainly, it's clear that Walker's goal is at least partly to reduce the power of unions in his state."

Like we did here in TN...I hope it spreads. Right to Work, that's the way it should be. What is it, 36 states so far? I haven't looked, but I would wager the economies in those unionized states are worse off. I'm SURE it's the case in Illinois.

"Like we did here in TN...I hope it spreads."

Keep the chlamydia, gonorrhea, viral hepatitis, and crab lice to yourselves, please.

Walker pushed the urgency of the Budget Repair Bill not only because of a projected $3 billion shortfall, but also because of an immediate deficit of I-forget-how-much. Shortly after the BRB passed, lo and behold, they "found" almost that exact amount elsewhere in the budget. It's not that I mind paying into my healthcare and pension. What I mind is seeing a decrease in my take-home pay of about 5% when the urgency of the situation was oversold for political reasons. I fully believe that if Walker hadn't already had sour relations with the unions, or if a secondary purpose of the BRB didn't exist of starving union political contributions in the 2012 presidential elections, then he could have introduced his desired changes in a graduated manner That wouldn't have a negative net effect on my ability to feed, clothe, and house my family. With the restrictions on wages, it will take me around five to ten years to make what I did last year.

And Prag, I think some quality people will leave education, but I don't think it will be as bad as people think. I do think, though, that the quality of new recruits will suffer greatly, and the end result will be the spiral of declining educational value you describe.

As for me, I thought about leaving, but I can't imagine having this much job satisfaction in any other field except theatre, and I don't have the skills or credentials to be able to support my family in that field.

"could have introduced his desired changes in a graduated manner"

Bingo.
+++++

I'll take one of your baited hooks, Jest.

"Damn, Prag...I see Columbia U. has cancelled the class in Occupy Wall Street. What a disappointment. Maybe they just couldn't see the "merit" in the class that you did. Tell me true now, Prag...are you sorry you ever said that? :-)"

No, I'm not. I meant what I said. If you go back and read it, you'll notice I didn't say "What a great class!" but that there COULD be merit in such a thing. And I threw in studying the Tea Party success as well. That was not a partisan comment from me; it was thinking about the fact that these movements represent some really interesting thing called activism. You know activism? Rank-and-file Americans getting involved in politics? You know, sort of like what America is all about, or should be? Yes, there are morons on both sides, but the phenomenon (phenomena?) is fascinating, and should be worthy of close examination by anyone claiming t have an interest in American politics. I was uncomfortable with the required "field work" part of it, and dubious about the professor, but the idea qua idea had merit.

I am saddened, Jest, by what I've seen in you in the last few months: the lack of interest in looking past the obvious or in seeing possible value in exploring ideas you dislike. Now, as then, you're not interested in the deeper discussion, but in the kneejerk soundbite "victory." They cancelled it? Fine. There could be all kinds of reasons for that, merit or otherwise.

And I have to wonder why you care so much. The doings of a private university mostly don't mean anything to me at all. Why do you care so much? (And if you cite 3rd graders writing Occupy songs or even younger kids singing in praise of Barry or whatever disrespectful title you leap on today, I'm just going to have to laugh at you.)

The bullshit, constant heaping of abuse by ignoramus public officials, and screwing around with state pension systems is definitely driving some folks out of public education. I can't quantify it, but I do hear about it frequently.

"As for me, I thought about leaving, but I can't imagine having this much job satisfaction in any other field except theatre, and I don't have the skills or credentials to be able to support my family in that field."

No, but you do have the skills and credentials to go to another state and get a job where the legislature isn't behaving in such a way. Granted, it's gonna get tough on educators all over, is getting tough already, and it's only going to get crazier. I think I asked you before if you had family or other reasons for staying where you are. If I faced what you do--the money situation you described in an earlier discussion on this, whereby essentially your salary never improve--I'd give very serious consideration to getting the fuck out. That might mean moving, and it might mean seeking a new gig. I've thought about a few myself, and I'm not where you are (politically). But hey, if I ever figure out my plan and get the funding for starting a school of a different design, I'll be in touch! : ) (By the by, said school would be a private/charter school. I know--runs counter to my philosophy. But we would find ways to attract, encourage, and sponsor kids who couldn't otherwise afford it. We'd also find ways to keep the cost comparatively low. Why the local private HS needs to charge over 28K a year is beyond me.)

I also expect that with your skill set, you could get a good job in another field, and that there are other fields in which you would find serious satisfaction. I've been struggling with this myself. The direction that public schools are going--and no, critics, I'm not talking about quality--is horrifying. So I have no choice but to think seriously about my options, all of them. Having worked for 14 years post-college in other fields, I've seen what satisfaction is not, but there must be other venues for me to do good work and feel rewarded.

"Keep the chlamydia, gonorrhea, viral hepatitis, and crab lice to yourselves, please."

Never had any of those, but I'm glad to have you convenient if I need any cures. I'm sure YOU have had the experience and tested the cures as a denizen of the 60's streets and Woodstock. Have you been able to make your Haj to Poop Mountain in Santa Cruz yet?

"I was uncomfortable with the required "field work" part of it, and dubious about the professor, but the idea qua idea had merit."

Ditto with the first phrase, ditto with the second phrase and "maybe" with the last phrase. The class MIGHT have been appropriate for a class in political science or similar program if it was something like "Publical Activism" taught in a neutral sense.

"I am saddened, Jest, by what I've seen in you in the last few months: the lack of interest in looking past the obvious or in seeing possible value in exploring ideas you dislike."

Now, how do you expect me to sleep after a comment like that? Besides, what makes you think I HAVEN'T looked past the obvious in many instances? I've lived through a whole lot of stuff just like the antics of the present. The OWS was (and is) just like a remake of the "meritorious" fun times of the '60's. Been there, seen that. You may have noticed that OWS is not looked on favorably by most Americans now. You wonder why?

"The doings of a private university mostly don't mean anything to me at all. Why do you care so much?"

I care for the influence our universities have on the country. You continue to ignore our education status in the tank compared to other developed nations. Does that NOT mean anything to you?

"Now, as then, you're not interested in the deeper discussion,..."

LOLOL...damn, Prag, this is the fuckin' DR. Deep discussion? LOL...You think we're having intellectual debates with bright students in a masters program at Harvard here? You take yourself too seriously and have a thin skin.

I am saddened, Jest, by what I've seen in you in the last few months: ..
#41 | Posted by pragmatist

With the restrictions on wages, it will take me around five to ten years to make what I did last year.#39 | Posted by dylanfan

Cry me a river, even with these changes the unions have a sweeeet deal.

Major elements of the budget-repair bill remain in place. It would require most public workers to pay half their pension costs - typically 5.8% of pay for state workers - and at least 12% of their health care costs. It applies to most state and local employees but does not apply to police, firefighters and state troopers, who would continue to bargain for their benefits.

"but does not apply to police, firefighters and state troopers, who would continue to bargain for their benefits."

Do you support a two-class system like that?

"Any honest appraisal of Scott Walkers time in office would have to admit that he has turned a large debt into a balanced budget"
~posted by Paneocon

"Wisconsin Policy Research Institute predicts $2.2 billion deficit for 2011-13 biennium"
~posted by Paneocon

Clearly, Paneocon thinks Paneocon doesn't know what he's talking about.

"but does not apply to police, firefighters and state troopers, who would continue to bargain for their benefits.

Do you support a two-class system like that?"

You didn't ask me, but it makes sense to me. MOST of those public workers don't face the same kinds of hazards faced by police, firefighters and state troopers and SHOULD get some extra incentive. Kinda like my drawing flight pay in the navy and getting a ration from the ground pounders. (Mostly in good spirit.)
We didn't really consider it a two-class system though. Why are you and your litle friends so eaten up with all this "two-class" BS. Has that been passed down with the talking points by Chuckie Shoooomer along with "extreme?"

Do you support a two-class system like that?
#48 | Posted by Danforth

Yes, in the free market we are all compensated for our value to our employers or customers.

We have a right to equal opportunity and not a right to a guarantee of equal out comes. The system you are looking for is called socialism.

"Yes, in the free market we are all compensated for our value to our employers or customers. "

What a crock of shit. You're claiming it's a "free market" on one hand, while declaring one group freer than another? WTF is this, Animal Farm?!?

"The system you are looking for is called socialism."

Nonsense. The system you're defending is political cronyism on a grand scale, the same stuff about which you barf faux outrage every time your ox is the one being gored.

"MOST of those public workers don't face the same kinds of hazards faced by police"

But they're not suggesting, like the military and some job situations, they get hazard pay if in qualifying hazardous situations. They're offering the pencil pushers the same deal as the undercover gang unit.

#52 | Posted by Danforth

I Danfort want the same benefit package for all WI public union workers. YES or NO?

"They're offering the pencil pushers the same deal as the undercover gang unit."

It's just not "fair!" You know what else isn't fair? Just because I'm not as tall as Kobe Bryant and can't jump as high, the Los Angeles Lakers won't let me try out for a contract worth millions.

"It's just not "fair!""

You're the one who brought up "hazards". Don't blame me if your argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

"I Danfort want the same benefit package for all WI public union workers. YES or NO?"

Bwahahaha...you can't even decide if the workers should have the benefit of "free market", since you're endorsing a cap on wages and a prohibition against negotiating for other benefits.

#57 | Posted by Danforth

Just as I suspected. All hat and no cattle.

"Ditto with the first phrase, ditto with the second phrase and "maybe" with the last phrase. The class MIGHT have been appropriate for a class in political science or similar program if it was something like "Publical Activism" taught in a neutral sense."

That was my point all along.

"Now, how do you expect me to sleep after a comment like that?"

LOL.

"I care for the influence our universities have on the country. You continue to ignore our education status in the tank compared to other developed nations. Does that NOT mean anything to you?"

Nonsense, and more nonsense. Try reading a few of my posts, including my final two on the Moder8 thread. If you were to pay attention, you wouldn't say things like that.

"LOLOL...damn, Prag, this is the fuckin' DR. Deep discussion? LOL...You think we're having intellectual debates with bright students in a masters program at Harvard here?"

No, silly. But if you're gonna bring up a serious topic, you should be ready to engage seriously and deeply or walk away. Some of us do indeed expect such behavior. I'm hardly the only one.

"You take yourself too seriously and have a thin skin."

Not at all--I take the conversations seriously--but coming from someone who consistently mislabels and concludes things about others that are completely inaccurate, I'm hardly surprised that you'd think that. Seems to me that's a neat excuse for "I just wanna do drive-by trolling and make sweeping statements 'cause it's fun to try to rile others."

46--Ha. Moron? Bad reader? Assumer?

"...negotiating for other benefits."

The problem you and your little friends just can't see is that the negotiations with public unions aren't taking place between payors and payees, Dan. The unions are negotiating with elected government officials who are getting contributions for election and reelection campaigns from those unions. Those elected officials then pass legislation very beneficial to reward the unions which make BIGGER contributions to the elected officials who then grant MORE benefits...well, you see the picture here. The money in the game all comes forced union dues and taxpayers. Those assholes granting all the bennies have no skin in the game except union support for elections.

"Just as I suspected. All hat and no cattle."

Did you miss the part where your self-contradiction is still on the table? Which Paneocon do you agree with: free market, or free market only for the chosen few?

"The problem you and your little friends just can't see is that the negotiations with public unions aren't taking place between payors and payees"

And that's different from business being able to influence public policy...how?

The unions are negotiating with elected government officials who are getting contributions for election and reelection campaigns from those unions. Those elected officials then pass legislation very beneficial to reward the unions which make BIGGER contributions to the elected officials who then grant MORE benefits.

Except for the part where that's not true yer completely correct.

Seriously, unions all over the place are giving up shit tons of benefits and forgoing raises and basically bending over backwards to keep their jobs while corporate profits remain high and CEO's make obscene bank.

This includes government unions.

The pitifully weak unions that have survived in the US are the last linchpin holding what's left of the American middle class in place.

Once they go you guys basically become peasants, peons, human chattel, endlessly kow-towing to your superiors in an increasingly authoritarian neo-feudal state.

Life is choice.

Chose well.

Be Well.

"Not at all--I take the conversations seriously--but coming from someone who consistently mislabels and concludes things about others that are completely inaccurate, I'm hardly surprised that you'd think that."

Awww, man! Now I'm REALLY crushed. Well, at least you gave me credit for "thinking" SOMETHING.

"...'cause it's fun to try to rile others."

Well, YEAHHHH! And you're too easy for all that much fun. I still like ya' though, but you need to be less serious for this venue. Like I said, this is the DR, not a discussion panel where anyone gives a shit or is going to have a change of heart or behavior based on anything you say. You're still gonna vote Obama ain'tcha? You know for certain I'm gonna vote against him don'tcha? I still think public schools suck for the most part and you still don't...right? Soooo, I'd be really frustrated that I hadn't changed your mind if I was here to convert you. Now, if you REALLY wanna be frustrated, try to convince danni to vote republican in NOV...LOLOL

'And that's different from business being able to influence public policy...how?"

Easy...businesses are spending THEIR OWN MONEY. Government officials approving union benefits are spending TAXPAYER MONEY!

More fun would be to try to convince Danni to vote for Ron Paul, wherever he may end up. : )

And Jest, if you're really goin' for fun, you oughtta inject some humor into your posts. Unless you really are someone who thinks that pissing off others is the highest form of fun. And yes, I'm still voting for Obama, unless maybe Huntsman makes it. (HA.) And I still don't think public schools suck (though if you read some of what I've written in the last few days, you might find some surprises; I'm surprised no one has leaped on one of my posts from earlier today, but then Crispee has been very quiet lately). I don't expect to change anyone's behavior, neither here nor in real-life political discussions. That doesn't mean the discussions should be trivial or superficial. I find no value in sitting in a room talking politics (or whatever) with a bunch of people who agree with me. I've had long and serious discussions with folks here that have given me perspective and/or knowledge I didn't have. That's valuable to me. I had that experience with you for quite a while, till you turned down the ranting "You're a stealth progressive" path. Which is just stupid and intended to troll. That's why I've been ignoring that part of your rhetoric. (shrug)

As for seriousness, that's all about individual choice, right? : ) You choose to be a labelling trolling fuckwad; I choose to engage in conversation. Says a lot, doesn't it? Have a great day. I have to go do some work--you know, so I can indoctrinate some more children in the ways of liberalism. (Ye gods, I expect you might believe that! : ) You should meet my students; you'd be surprised.)

"You choose to be a labelling trolling fuckwad;"

Now I feel better, thanks, Prag. You WERE making me feel guilty for calling you a "stealth Progressive" because it seemed to really bother you. I thought it was rather mild, but now I feel justified in calling you a brainless dolt who can't pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. No wonder you took up teaching for a profession. It gives you a forum where a bunch of young people are forced to sit and listen to your platitudes without repeating to you the immortal words of our distinguished former vice president when he told Senator Leahy to, "Go fuck yourself."

"I have to go do some work--you know, so I can indoctrinate some more children in the ways of liberalism."

AHA! Suspicions confirmed :-)

Feel better now? I want to be sure that I fit the mold for a "labelling trolling fuckwad." (What's a fuckwad?) You know, you're starting to be more fun than you used to be.

No wonder you took up teaching for a profession.

68 | Posted by jestgettinalong

Um, why do you hate teachers?

The problem you and your little friends just can't see is that the negotiations with public unions aren't taking place between payors and payees,

#61 | Posted by jestgettinalong

Yep. And you and your little friends just never savvy how people like Scott Walker make the case for Unions, including the public ones, all by themselves.

"Um, why do you hate teachers?"

Uh...maybe because my exwife was a teacher?

Not really...I don't hate teachers. I know many, many of them, some were ex military I served with.

"And you and your little friends just never savvy how people like Scott Walker make the case for Unions, including the public ones, all by themselves."

The unions just LOooove Governor Moonbeam in California though. How's that workin' out for them out there?

Not really...I don't hate teachers.

71 | Posted by jestgettinalong

When you show any actual love for one I'll point that out.

The unions just LOooove Governor Moonbeam in California though. How's that workin' out for them out there?

#71 | Posted by jestgettinalong

It'll always work out better for them in the long run with Governor Brown. The reasons for that are too obvious to state.

46--Ha. Moron? Bad reader? Assumer?
#60 | Posted by pragmatist

"It'll always work out better for them in the long run with Governor Brown. The reasons for that are too obvious to state."

LOL...Not so obvious to all the businesses buggin' out. What have YOU been smokin'?

The problem you and your little friends just can't see is that the negotiations with public unions aren't taking place between payors and payees,

#61 | Posted by jestgettinalong

This is the most important point.

All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials

Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. It is, therefore, with a feeling

68--He doesn't hate teachers, Zed. He has now made it very clear that he is just fucking with me. It's like talking to my brother, back when he was 14 and I was 11.

Of course, this means I will now find it very hard to ever take his thoughts seriously. : )

I'll say one thing to Jest: I don't offer platitudes. Not my mode at all.
+++++

73--You're very strange, and you seem to lack reading comprehension.

73--You're very strange, and you seem to lack reading comprehension.
#76 | Posted by pragmatist

Hey no sweat off Dems they are the pros at spending others people money.

#3 | POSTED BY PANEOCON AT 2012-01-07 03:38 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

From a cheerleader of spending trillions in other peoples money to nation build in the middle east.

Too funny.

FDR vs. Wisconsin Teachers

Got anything from Warren G. Harding?

At least our budget is balanced. And I hope Walker gives the $9m tab to the Teachers and Public Workers when this is done.

Legal, Entire Proper WI Recall Cost Estimated at $9M
posted by paneocon

See, now you don't sound so stoopid.

Worth every penny to see the libtards of Wisconsin get their asses handed to them, one last time.

78 | Posted by 726

Do you have reading comprehension issues of is it just you inability to read anything except the Daily Kos. I have been very vocal on not occupying Afghanistan or our NATO actions in Libya and for the record I don't think our involvement in Iraq was avoidable due to NATO and UN sanctions but I'm not a fan of nation building by military force. History has shown that standing armies don’t prevail very often against Muslim armies.

Got anything from Warren G. Harding?#79 | Posted by 726

Maybe if it was called for. The article was germane to the post. Maybe if you knew anything about history you would not be supporting so many things that have proven to be problematic in the past. Like say Socialist leaders with no clue about economics.

See, now you don't sound so stoopid.#81 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Watching your whole liberal agenda circling the bowl has caused you to lose your snappy wit and now you're just another bitter angry lib. Sad really.

Watching your whole liberal agenda circling the bowl

#84 | Posted by paneocon

Are we still speaking about Wisconsin? If so, a recall effort against Walker is hardly evidence of anything circling the bowl. What it is is evidence that a majority of people still hate dishonest politicians.

Ah, sorry to remind you of the main point here. Walker has quickly demonstrated himself to be a liar and manipuilator of the first order.

That's DEMONSTRATED. There's nothing left to prove on that issue. The choice is now to let the liar stay in office or boot him away.

Worth every penny to see the libtards of Wisconsin get their asses handed to them, one last time.

#82 | Posted by JOE

Hell, JOE. Even if the recall fails, what on earth makes you think there will be a "last time"?

Where did you all get the idea that you can knock people down once or twice and they just never decide to get up again? Does it work that way in your lives? In your personal relationships?

Damn, that's silly. You guys deserve to lose.

#85 | Posted by Zed

Would you care to discuss Barry7 Obama's broken capagine promises?

Promise Broken rulings on the Walk-O-Meter

1)Create "jobs hotline" for direct access to governor's office

2)Allow smoking in businesses

3)Oppose and veto all tax increases

4)Repeal 2009 income tax increase on wealthiest taxpayers

5)Require use of accepted accounting principles to balance all state budgets

6)Strip policy items and pork projects from the state budget

7)Never "raid" special state funds for other programs

8)Immediately pay full employee contribution on his state pension

#86 | Posted by Zed

If the dems keep this recall stuff up they will find themselves on the losing end of things for years to come. Tax payers are a little fussy on watching their tax money pissed away.

"If the dems keep this recall stuff up they will find themselves on the losing end of things for years to come."

"Tax payers are a little fussy on watching their tax money pissed away."

One of the funniest things ever posted on the Drudge Retort!

"Tax payers are a little fussy on watching their tax money pissed away."
One of the funniest things ever posted on the Drudge Retort! #90 | Posted by Hans

The fact that you think that the waste of tax money is funny makes you an idiot of the first order and leads me to think you are not a tax payer either because you are too lazy or because you can't earn enough to be a tax payer..

More lies by the Walker campaign to scare...who, exactly? the Galactically Stupid? They voted for Walker in the first place.

Watching your whole liberal agenda circling the bowl has caused you to lose your snappy wit and now you're just another bitter angry lib. Sad really.

#84 | Posted by paneocon at 2012-01-09 11:02 AM | Reply | Flag:AS OPPOSED TO ME...

Where did you all get the idea that you can knock people down once or twice and they just never decide to get up again? Does it work that way in your lives? In your personal relationships?
#86 | Posted by Zed

These guys are too fucking stupid to stay down. Perpetual losers....

If the dems keep this recall stuff up they will find themselves on the losing end of things for years to come.

#88 | Posted by paneocon at

Sure. But they've succeeded with two recalls. If Walker also goes down it's hard to see how anyone could call that losing. Though it seems like you're developing a case beforehand.

You would have to ask WISGOD but my WI sources say that there are a lot of Support Walker signs and bumper stickers showing up as well as people stealing them (ass holes). Their view is that Walker will survive the recall. I guess time will tell but all of a sudden when the recall signatures have to be valid it's gotten quiet from the anti Walker folks. Time will tell. I hope the unions spend a fortune on there.

I hope the unions spend a fortune on there.

#96 | Posted by paneocon

After all, money is speech.

After all, money is speech.
#97 | Posted by Zed

Often the case but the internet has changed the dynamics some which is why SOPA is so dangerous.

fine with me, as long as the people funding the unions had a choice of not joining the union or paying dues. wonder if that was the case?

"fine with me, as long as the people funding the unions had a choice of not joining the union or paying dues. wonder if that was the case?"

Yup, since 1988.

then i've got no issue with it. if people are gonna get their panties in a bunch, then the state needs to re-evaluation their recall laws. in cali, i personally think the bar ought to be a little higher. i was not a Davis fan, but thought we spent a lot of time and money for very little "benefit." could've easily waited to next election and saved money and allowed him a little time to try to correct the issues.

And we're going to spend $400 million to get rid of our affirmative action president. Dems and the unions will spend twice that to keep him. We'll see what happens.