Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Wednesday, December 21, 2011

The U.S. government has asked scientists not to reveal all the details of how they made a version of the deadly bird flu in labs, fearing it could be replicated by terrorists. Science editor-in-chief Bruce Alberts said his journal "has concerns about withholding potentially important public health information from responsible influenza researchers."

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So basically ooooo SCIENCE IS DANGEROUS! And of course so are politics. But what holds power over what? I'd say science is more powerful than politics. Thanks to science we have fire and without science we'd be like chimps. Sadly, modern advertizing is having a similar effect - brainwashing people into zombies (like chimps).

Funny how DR has become a good place to find REAL SCIENCE - after the political fuck-over like CRU on global warming and BP being the $ source to most university geology research. Its the CHRONYs are they're everywhere they're everywhere.

This was, quite possibly, the stupidest use of science ever in the history of mankind. How can people smart enough to do this never once stop to realize that the ONLY saving grace of this stain of flu was that it did not leap from person to person? 61% fatality and they thought "hey, let's make it stronger." Morons! I hope they break a vial of this crap in a sealed room with a hole in their suits.

www.investorvillage.com

HAHA! We fucking paid for it too! Why would we pay for them to do this? Only the State would think something this destructive was a good idea.

Happy Bird Flu Bitchez.

How can people smart enough to do this never once stop to realize that the ONLY saving grace of this stain of flu was that it did not leap from person to person?

They knew that but finding out an answer to why is probaly why they did it (haven't read the actual paper because it isn't published).

61% fatality and they thought "hey, let's make it stronger."

Gaining the ability to spread between ferrets and, by extension humans, doesn't necessarily mean it's stronger. It may actually have become attenuated (weaker in ability to cause disease and death) in the process.

Who knows until the paper comes out (if it comes out).

All I know is that they probably used standard virological techniques and ideas to make this occur, not some utterly amazing stroke of genius with diabolical intentions.

And the article is a POS scare piece anyway. I'm guessing the author probably isn't too familiar with virology or microbiology.

#4 | Posted by jpw at 2011-12-20 03:45 PM | Reply | Flag: Scare piece?

So why sooo scared of the flu? Did'ja get a flu shot? Do pigs fly? (o right swine flew)...

Doesn't everyone remember War of the Worlds (Orson Welles)? We won the planet back from the aliens thanks to our germs. So what's a little warfare between the haves and the have nots?

"Man-made super-flu formula to be published?"

PatriotMoron and GlazedDonutThighs can make up a batch for Xmas.

So why sooo scared of the flu? Did'ja get a flu shot?

What are you babbling about?

The story is a scare piece, as in it's full of over-inflated language and ridiculous phrases all mean to convey something very very very scary.

When it's likely not.

JPW that's called "bait" - like f'n booo! Were you scared enough to get the shot? Hint hint - they never know which strain might hit... better think flu now - and get a shot! Or did you miss all that innuendo shit? Still skeptical? Well - this covers that too --- even this exotic strain is now known and understood.

So (3 biggest lies)... TRUST ME, the check is in the mail and I won't cum in you mouth.

What the fuck are you babbling? You make no sense.

And believe me, I'm sure I'm much more informed on vaccines/influenza than you are (so yes, I was and am well aware that the strains included are guess work).

#9 - not to be confrontational but why would you think your more informed on vaccines/influenza than Reitze or anyone else for that matter? Are you a Biochemist? Bio-researcher? Doctor? All of the above?

Just curious.

Are you a Biochemist? Bio-researcher? Doctor? All of the above?

All the above.

Are you a Biochemist? Bio-researcher? Doctor? All of the above?

All the above.

Posted by jpw at 2011-12-20 10:41 PM | Reply

I'll stick to applied particle physics for now.
www.archaeology.org

Who knows?

Cool stuff.

Are you Schwitters or Valdez? LOL

Are you Schwitters or Valdez? LOL
.
#13 | Posted by jpw at 2011-12-20 11:07 PM

Are you Sativa or Indica? LOL

All the above.

#11 | POSTED BY JPW

Great, maybe you can explain why Formaldehyde, Octoxynol 10, Polysorbate 80, Squalene, Thimersol, and Span85 are ingredients allowed in flu vaccines?

Formaldehyde: a known carcinogen and reproductive or developmental toxicant.

Octoxynol 10: (Also known as Triton X-100) can alter metabolic activity, damage membranes, and cause a rapid decline in cell function.

Polysorbate 80: Also known as Tween 80. Is one of the ingredients in Gardasil, the cervical cancer vaccine that is being mandated/promoted for teen-age girls. This ingredient is known to cause infertility, grand mal convulsions, spontaneous abortions, and life-threatening anaphylactic shock. So far, 28 Gardasil deaths have been reported.

Squalene: A natural oil found in sharks, is being added to all new vaccines. It is linked to the thousands of military who have contracted "Gulf War Syndrome" and have suffered irreparable auto-immune damage, including lupis, multiple sclerosis, fibromyalgia, and rheumatoid arthritis.

Thimersol: (MERCURY). Put in all multiple doses of vaccines. Any amount of mercury is highly toxic. There is no safe level. This is has been repeatedly linked to the increasing rates of autism, multiple sclerosis, and ADD.

Span85: used as an adjuvant and is "toxic to humans, including carcinogenicity, reproductive and developmental toxicity, neurotoxicity, and acute toxicity.

Great, maybe you can explain why Formaldehyde, Octoxynol 10, Polysorbate 80, Squalene, Thimersol, and Span85 are ingredients allowed in flu vaccines?

That doesn't sound good, but I'll wait for the Big Pharma shill to weigh in.

All the above.
#11 | Posted by jpw at 2011-12-20 10:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Which leaves out statistics and is why he failed in what he calls the "aids denialist" thread I posted, HIV doesn't cause AIDS, Dr Pusher does: House of Numbers. It wasn't denying AIDS exists but does challenge the asserted and advertized religion of causality from an HIV.

BTW, I was just reading some research that was designed to "prove" the effectiveness of the flue shot. It started by outlining a test for 1 specific strain. In other words, the question asked was manipulated to the point where the conclusions drawn were BULLSHIT. Do the FUCKING MATH and shove the pathology up your pathological ass!

"Do the FUCKING MATH"

Love to: tell us, how many people have developed AIDS without contracting HIV?

Round if necessary.

Neither.

But I did stay in a Holiday Inn.

Great, maybe you can explain why Formaldehyde, Octoxynol 10, Polysorbate 80, Squalene, Thimersol, and Span85 are ingredients allowed in flu vaccines?

Formaldehyde-probably in the form of formalin, which is used to deactivate viruses ect in deactivated, killed vaccines (ie flu shots).

detergents-I don't know their exact function here but I would guess either preservative or to keep the protein components and any lipid components in solution (which is a common use of tritonX and tween in lab work).

squalene and span85-adjuvants are used to increase immunogenicity of the injected material. Proteins themselves don't usually (some do, most don't) induce a strong immune reaction on their own. Adjuvants ramp up the immune response to allow for a stronger response (which is good) to a lesser amount of material (which is also good).

Thimerosal- is a preservative (self explanatory).

And I know I'm walking into a storm of bullshit because this is a loaded question. These sorts of things are thrown around on anti-vax sites like crazy and not a single one of them takes into account the most important variable-dose. When considering toxicity and the things you list above for each of these compounds there is no indication of the dose needed to achieve that effect.

Thimersol: (MERCURY).

Right there is as far as you need to go to know you're being fed bullshit to push an agenda (indicated secondarily by the all caps MERCURY).

Thimerosal is NOT mercury. It is an organomercurial compound that is metabolized into ethylmercury (again, NOT the same as mercury). Completely different compounds with completely different behaviors.

Put in all multiple doses of vaccines.

Put in all multi-dose vaccines which, IIRC, is down to only one- multi-dose flu vaccine vials.

And there's a reason for it- being multi-dose there's multiple needles being inserted into the vial. Do you want to be the one who gets the contaminated second or third dose?

Any amount of mercury is highly toxic. There is no safe level.

I'm not familiar with mercury standards but I'm willing to call bullshit on this. If this were the case we should never eat fish and should shut down all coal burning power plants.

This is has been repeatedly linked to the increasing rates of autism, multiple sclerosis, and ADD.

Also incredibly wrong on the autism side. There is no evidence linking the use of thimerosal and autism. Period. A few early studies indicated possible links but large (very large by epidemiological standards) have been conducted and none found a link. Also, the "study" that kicked it all off by Andrew Wakefield was found to be a complete fraud.

Which leaves out statistics and is why he failed in what he calls the "aids denialist" thread I posted

First of all, it doesn't at all leave out statistics you dipshit. All researchers use statistics to some degree to analyze data sets and I had a fair bit of stats in my epidemiology class.

I don't know why you cling to this stats things. Well actually I do. You think it's some sort of trump card because you've been shown to be completely fucking ignorant of the entirety of the rest of the topic.

It wasn't denying AIDS exists but does challenge the asserted and advertized religion of causality from an HIV.

It doesn't challenge shit. It brings up the same tired arguments that the denialists have been positing for years coupled with some fancy video editing.

The only people it convinces are people stupid enough (or smug enough to think they're smart enough to know something special that people who've dedicated their entire lives to studying something haven't figured out yet) to take their scientific information from youtube videos while not making the slightest effort to read the actual science.

It started by outlining a test for 1 specific strain. In other words, the question asked was manipulated to the point where the conclusions drawn were BULLSHIT

How about you post the study so I can either rip it or you a new one.

Do the FUCKING MATH and shove the pathology up your pathological ass!

It's been done you stupid shit.

And the pathology is the story numbnuts.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Slog through it like so many other scientists do on a daily basis.

Now that you have pubmed served to your lazy ass on a silver platter change the search parameters to what you'd like and slog through that too.

Stop being a lazy fuck watching youtube videos parroting "no statistics...no I haven't read the literature...no statistics...".

That doesn't sound good, but I'll wait for the Big Pharma shill to weigh in.

You're pathetic.

So I'm supposed to worship the mountain of interactions that occur the same in healthy people? Nah that's just part of the picture.

Ever hear of Murphy's definition of an expert? --- ye who knows more and more about less and less till he knows everything about nothing.

So I'm supposed to worship the mountain of interactions that occur the same in healthy people?

Knowing it exists is a start lazy ass.

Also, "healthy" is an inaccurate term here.

Sure, someone who's had HIV may have "healthy" T cell counts today but won't five years from now.

As a "scientist" I figured you'd know a single time point is useless unless previous defined and characterized for use.

Nah that's just part of the picture.

It's the entire explanation for why HIV leads to AIDS.

ye who knows more and more about less and less till he knows everything about nothing.

That's cute.

It also shows your ignorance (a continual trend with you).

#27 just because it could lead there doesn't mean it does - many have shown that anecdotal.

BTW, here was that study I was reading on the effectivity of the flue shot I was referring to above - in a post where I was bitching about it framing rather than proving what it claimed in its conclusion... And by that I mean that by selecting a strain and measuring that - it per-determines the result as compared to a random event. Thus the problem-frame is biased so the result is too. That means its little better than an anectdote - whichever way you wanna spin it, meaningless to the original question. ESPECIALLY since there are people with side effects. BTW "95% confidence intervals" with less than 100 people in the result-data-tables demonstrates the sparseness of the data-set too. But of course nobody is paying for my "peer review input" - and anyone who analyzes that data will be well paid to keep their reviewers list among themselves. Here: have fun.

Comparative Efficacy of Inactivated and Live
Attenuated Influenza Vaccines (N Engl J Med 2009)

And by that I mean that by selecting a strain and measuring that - it per-determines the result as compared to a random event.

No it doesn't.

They're vaccinating against a specific strain so of course they're going to measure the efficacy of the vaccine by measuring the reduction in people getting sick with that strain.

Also, when you get the flu you're getting infected by a single strain (usually). It's not like a natural infection is with multiple different strains.

That means its little better than an anectdote - whichever way you wanna spin it, meaningless to the original question.

No it isn't. The point of the paper (read the damn title dipshit) is to compare two different vaccine types to a specific strain of influenza (H3N2).

That's what they measured.

It's by no means "little better than an anecdote".

ESPECIALLY since there are people with side effects.

How is this at all relevant?

BTW "95% confidence intervals" with less than 100 people in the result-data-tables demonstrates the sparseness of the data-set too.

Ummmm I don't remember the statistical rationale behind it, but and N of 100 in a controlled study is more than enough. Hell, most mouse studies use less than 100 per condition but still have statistically significant outcomes.

The number has to higher for random, but these arent' random.

But of course nobody is paying for my "peer review input"

Of course not. You're an ignorant fool

- and anyone who analyzes that data will be well paid to keep their reviewers list among themselves. Here: have fun.

What the fuck does this even mean? Do you have the foggiest idea how peer review works? (for real, not your paranoia ridden bullshit fantasy version)

hundreds, if not, thousands of words attacking me, most of them coming from Big Pharma shills. I hope Big Pharma pays well.

most of them coming from Big Pharma shills. I hope Big Pharma pays well.

Is everything in your world so pathetically oversimplified with a heavy dose of paranoia?

I don't work for nor am I paid by big pharma. Period.

Do you by chance remember what I said earlier about someone pointing out your decreased mental capacity due to drug consumption? This is one of those times.

I love Big Pharma. Period.

Do you remember when I admitted to decreased mental capacity due to drug consumption? This is one of those times.

#32 | Posted by jpw at 2011-12-21 01:19 AM

Anything else?

I love Big Pharma. Period.

Do you remember when I admitted to decreased mental capacity due to drug consumption? This is one of those times.

#32 | Posted by jpw at 2011-12-21 01:19 AM

Anything else?

lol, thanks Null.

Anything else?

Have a pleasant evening.

you too jpw.

lol, thanks Null.

#35 | Posted by reitze at 2011-12-21 01:30 AM

You're ok in my book, Reitze. Don't let the bastards get you down.

ye who knows more and more about less and less till he knows everything about nothing.

That's cute.

It also shows your ignorance (a continual trend with you).

#28 | Posted by jpw

Actually, that's a good quote. Those that understand "reality tunnels" get it.

We mass produce diseases
for use in various cheeses
all so that people
Can go and see Jesus
On his 1,963rd birthday...

- Science.

The man-made killer bug is currently being stored in a basement somewhere at the Rotterdam medical university, though without the benefit of armed guards.

----

Let's report on this controversial super deadly man made flu bug that could be used a biological weapon to kill half the world. Let's be responsible journalists and also note its location and that it's unguarded. *facepalm*

"I know I'm walking into a storm of bullshit because this is a loaded question."

Nonsense, I just wanted to see if you would at least google the information to see if you could stay up with The Anti-vac Reitze's out there. I just got my flu shot last week.

Nonsense, I just wanted to see if you would at least google the information to see if you could stay up with The Anti-vac Reitze's out there. I just got my flu shot last week.

My apologies then. I thought it was a setup.

And I don't have to keep up with reitze. I'm well informed on vaccines and infectious diseases with an understanding of mechanism and function.

Reitze is one of those "skeptics" who thinks that by simply asking questions, any ol' dumb question, he's entitled to an answer or rebuttal. All without the courtesy of at least doing research on his own time of actual science, not crack pot websites and youtube videos.

I thought it was a setup.

Well it was in a way but JeffN is no longer here and Buffalo Bob seems lost with out him and didn't take the bait.

Any weapons-grade experimentation should require a Government security clearances. Same as if they were working on nuclear weaponry.

What?

"Scientists" can possesses viruses that will KILL millions within days, but not nuclear warheads (unless they have a clearance)?

This policy has got to be from the same bunch of Government nitwits that believe themselves capable of lowering the sea level.

"Project Blue"

www.youtube.com

We all should fear it. WTF are they doing creating these things?

fearing it could be replicated by terrorists

You could say the same thing about any sort of research into the virulence and host range of any human pathogen. Depending on how it is used, it can save lives or take them on a colossal scale. Preventing this publication won't make a goddamn bit of difference to the security of the US, though.

The techniques that have been used to create deadly pathogens in the past are not mysterious. Chances are this study involved little more than some carefully controlled artificial selection. Say that some unsavory group - al Qaeda, the Russkies, the Eye-Rainians, or whatever - have the resources and the expertise to read it and act on the information. People with that sort of knowledge and the willingness to use it for mass murder don't sit on their hands waiting for the next bit of dual-purpose research to get published. They go out and do their own.

Remember the cult that infected hundreds of people with salmonella in Oregon? They were doing quite a bit of "original" research. That was almost 30 years ago, thankfully. They could have done far, far worse with little more than modern technology and wikipedia.

Look hard enough, and you'll find that all knowledge is "dual-purpose". There will always be someone trying to use it for good, and there will always be someone trying to use it to kill in inventive new ways. We have a choice - either suppress knowledge that can save lives, or pursue those who would use it for evil. Apparently some people would have us flee to a placid little island of ignorance and embrace the "peace" and "safety" of a new dark age. Fuck them.

This policy has got to be from the same bunch of Government nitwits that believe themselves capable of lowering the sea level.
#1 | POSTED BY BLOODSACRAFICE

It remains clear that we must obviously continue to deregulate. The Free Market will take care of it.

Nonsense, I just wanted to see if you would at least google the information to see if you could stay up with The Anti-vac Reitze's out there. I just got my flu shot last week.
#42 | Posted by Tedly at 2011-12-21 09:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

Reitze is one of those "skeptics" who thinks that by simply asking questions, any ol' dumb question, he's entitled to an answer or rebuttal. All without the courtesy of at least doing research on his own time of actual science, not crack pot websites and youtube videos.
#43 | Posted by jpw at 2011-12-21 12:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

BULLSHIT!

I posted the best research offered here about the question at-hand at the time regarding effectiveness of the flue shot... here (same link as in post #29 above): Comparative Efficacy of Inactivated and Live
Attenuated Influenza Vaccines (N Engl J Med 2009)

In table 3 it indictes these sample-results (of 1952 enrolled participants who still got the flu):
------------|--TIV----|---
LAIV----|--Placebo--
Influenza A--22 (2.7%)--55 (6.8%)---31 (9.5%)

So what's the claims made? and WTF are they saying about 95% confidence? Well for intuitive sake consider that if you divided up your sample sets into evenly divided smaller sets you could go with 10 each and have "relative" ratio#s as well as a sense of getting to 90% confidence in the significant digits. And use the %#s to stay pop-normalized. So /10 youd get:

(TIV=3, LAIV = 7, and Placebo = 10)/3 = 1:2:3. So you could claim w/ 95% confidence a 5x reduction (or 80%) in the rate of people getting the flu with the shot - that says it works.

HOWEVER, what it doesn't do is relate it back to the difference it makes for the individual. So doing that - again in round/intuitive means for discussion sake... of the 1952 enrolled, the individual would have a 10% chance of the flue w/o the shot, or a 3% chance w/ the shot but a more certain pain in the arm and 2 day cold. Is that worth it? Obviously for the drug/pharma companies. Also prolly worth it for schools and factories where people work close together, etc. But for someone healthy and not in contact w/ too many people... prolly not.

Corrections/improvements here:

(TIV=3, LAIV = 7, and Placebo = 10)/3 = 1:2:3. So you could claim w/ 90% (intutive est per sample sizes) confidence a 3x reduction (or 60%) in the rate of people getting the flu with the shot.

HOWEVER, what it doesn't do is relate it back to the difference it makes for the individual, NOR does it cover the likelihood of the shot covering the intended strain.

So doing that - again in round/intuitive means for discussion sake... of the 1952 enrolled, the individual would have a 10% chance of the flue w/o the shot, or a 3% (OR HIGHER PER THE STRAIN) chance w/ the shot but a more certain pain in the arm and 2 day cold. That means the 60% reduction in flu-rate wouldn't be as good. How good? hard to tell - perhaps 30% is best-estimate (conservative-midpoint) for finite but unknown aspect (while not claiming anything about confidence either).

So with that INFORMATION, is it worth it? For an individual? That's if the average infection rate is 10%, you could get the shot - with a 90% likelihood of a 2 day cold and some arm pain - to reduce your likelihood of getting flu to about 6% (+/- 3%'ish).

In addition, consider that if you rarely get the flue its of even less benefit while if you often get it and have other risk factors then it might be way more worth the pain, risks, costs.

And notice I didn't elaborate on the "risks" either - mercury injection? WTF? But of course there are opposing risks too. Vested interests too, like the drug/pharma companies.

So all in all its prolly worth it for schools and factories where people work close together, etc. But for someone healthy and not in contact w/ too many people... prolly not.

Icepick, while you are correct, this is technically biological warfare research. This is by pretty much any definition an indiscriminate biological weapon. That kind of development should be controlled by all reasonable governments. I know what kind of stuff the Russians had a few years ago and I am pretty sure still do. Chinese probably have plenty as well. And even though such research is illegal, I am sure we do also.

If what they developed here is truly as virulent as say the common cold or flu and as deadly. Then we are probably looking at wiping out 2/3 of the world population rather quickly. Sure they can develop a vaccine but how quickly would it spread in a global environment? While this may not be the worst thing to happen to the planet, I certainly don't want it to happen.

Afraid of it?

Why did the NIH fund it.

Yes, taxpayer, you paid for foreign scientists to create the super flu. At the very least couldn't they have had Amerrrrrrikkans do it?

Then again, if the government didn't pay for super virus' who would?

#46 and that's just the "best case" interpretation of that link. A more worse-case would challenge it on the basis of the
Confidence_interval, population distributions, and sample sizes too.

For example, were the divisions of the populations done 100% randomly? Or were some of the locations only giving and tracking placebos or 1 shot-type - causing some "co-location" corruption of the results? The paper indicated that risk.

Another risk is the sparseness of the data. EG: there were less than 2K people, over 2 forms of the vaccine, multiple strains, and no measure of the population who didn't get any sort of vaccine (there's yet another layer of "placebo-effect" below the basic layer of pills A vs B, bigger is pill vs no pill no perceived need, etc). How does that get sorted out? Well..

Statistically you could consider that similar to figuring how many flips of a bent coin do you need to determine the P(heads) to 1 digit?

For example, if a coin were bent such that 1 million flips produced 402300 heads (p=0.402 heads), how many SAMPLES would you need to determine its 0.4 +/- 0.05? Intuitively that's ~ 10x(1/0.05)= 200, and for another digit, 10x more so 2000 samples. BUT there's more than 2 sides of the coin in this study... so you'd need 3000 samples... as you can see there isn't enough data necessary to be more than an INDICATION, not a solid result, and still not framed to the full question (but aimed at "strain-A"). So that evidence is inconclusive (just a positive hint). While the 2-day cold and arm pain that are 90% likely.

So is the anecdotal results of a 2000 person study persuasive? NO. Is it encouraging? Yes. Is it strong enough to call people who don't buy into it crazy? NFW - people doing that shit prove they're assholes - but sadly that works with some people too.

It benefits mankind, with the proper controls in place, to accelerate the mutation of a virus so a vaccine can be created. All viruses will eventually mutate to survive.

this is technically biological warfare research

It's "dual-purpose" research - perfectly legitimate, extremely important, yet capable of being perverted into something terrible. To learn enough to defeat, mitigate, or prepare for the pandemic threat posed by H5N1, you will unavoidably stray into areas like this.

That kind of development should be controlled by all reasonable governments.

When governments fund this sort of research but keep it the shadows, that is when it is time to worry.

If what they developed here is truly as virulent as say the common cold or flu and as deadly. Then we are probably looking at wiping out 2/3 of the world population rather quickly.

Possibly. Here's the important part - if what they are reporting is true, only a few mutations separate today's H5N1 from a virus that can sustain human-human transmission. That could be bad news for humans, since influenza does a notoriously shitty job of copying its genome. It's hard to gauge the threat or prepare for it when you don't know the number of mutations, where they are in the genome, the conditions required to select them, etc...

It's beyond ridiculous and the scientists haven't offered any reason for it's creation.

#1 H5N1 research in the US requires select agent clearance if IRC. I'm not sure about the EU though.

Dave-it was done to determine why H5N1 doesn't spread well in humans. Understanding that will hopefully allow us to monitor more effectively and anticipate if we're going to take a bit hit from a strain that's developed naturally.

We have a choice - either suppress knowledge that can save lives, or pursue those who would use it for evil.

#4 | Posted by dr_icepick

Just brilliant doctor. The only hickup I can see is there'll be nobody left to do the pursuing after the plague gets out.

..oops.

If some information shouldn't be safeguarded, then please feel free to post your personal data here any time.

Use to save lives, AND protect it. Scientists can't walk and chew gum at the same time?

If there's grant money, they'll figure it how.

It's beyond ridiculous and the scientists haven't offered any reason for it's creation.
#10 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2011-12-21 05:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Its a gift - to take darkness off the face of the earth. While every new thought is opposed...
The Fountainhead - Howard Roark Speech (Ayn Rand)

The words in the speach answer the REASON for its creation. How our goverment and those funding scientist with that field of interest is up to us. As the man who brought fire was prolly burned at the stake by his brothers, the scientists developing these technologies may save us all from a mutation of something out of nowhere. Let's hope that rather than fearing such men and arresting, drugging, and killing them (common throught history)... that we may give them the respect they deserve - for our own sake more than his. For if we burn such a man on a stake he will surly die with a satisfaction that cannot be taken from him, REGARDLESS of what our brothers do with what we create.

Fuck Ayn Rand, that government teat-sucking whore.

BTW, there are many similarities to viruses in humans vs virus technologies in computers for various uses (both good and bad)... {snipped discussion of algorithm work on neural networks and applicability...}

IDK too easy to hit the home-run of oooo dangerous right? oh well tough for ya'll I know what could be done with such "ideas" hmmm time to go chasing windmills(reitze's.jpg) again.

lmfao hi letus.

Read the article before you criticize science or the scientists people. You're a bunch of pitch fork-wielding idiots. Leave science to the professionals if you can't be bothered to even read a few paragraphs. There is zero intelligent criticism of this research, nor any logical opposition to it. I'll withhold any wishes for constructive questions as that would be naive on my part. Fucking pathetic.

there'll be nobody left to do the pursuing after the plague gets out

You're assuming that only a human hand can let this particular genie out of its bottle. History would beg to differ.

Are you honestly stupid enough to believe that an H5N1 pandemic could not begin without the help of molecular biologists and ferrets?

Bruce, Ice, I think the fears & concerns are broader and more severe than you point out. Not only are the people with the technical brain-power important, so is them having secure facilities and work-places - while not eliminating all of them from existance via crazy requirements of security clearances (used to be worse than these days) or worse, fearful people assassinating them and stuff like that.

Here's a personal example/perspective:
I rejected a full $scholarship for a PHD in Nuclear Science. I would even have gotten to spend 6 months on a nuclear submarine as part of the program.

Anyway, Reagan was war-mongering all over the world and there was NFW I felt any trust toward administrations like that with the possibility of even more exotic technology. Sure someone else will come up with some of what I would have or could have. But unless or until our world changes that's ok with me. I instead chose the Full Scholarship from GE for the MSEE with Edison, MLC, and Advanced Course options (while fully employed at the same time). Otherwise, I figured I would be the guy who'd figure out how to implode things like the earth and we'd be elsewhere. I'll wait till the world is ready.

So I "settled for" inventing MSEE like things. Like when you get that 10G internet connection for your brain-interface-helmet you'll need MY SECURE INTERNET INVENTION in order to prevent spammers from sending commercials directly to your brain when you walk past their transmitter or worse, the globalists.

You're assuming that only a human hand can let this particular genie out of its bottle. History would beg to differ.
Are you honestly stupid enough to believe that an H5N1 pandemic could not begin without the help of molecular biologists and ferrets?

#20 | Posted by Dr_Icepick at 2011-12-22 01:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

I think the fear isn't that a hunan hand would let it out. More like a human hand would disperse it on purpose. For example, from our old friend Jeffn's world: http://preventdisease.com/
news/09/
113009_CIA_operated_H1N1_aeria
l_spraying_plane_shot_down.sht
ml
.

No as for the ferrets - I think we agree having the research is a good thing IF the management of it can be trusted. But...

DO YOU TRUST THE GOVERNMENT? HOW FAR & WITH WHAT ADDITIONAL TECHNOLOGIES? ---- of course there's a flip side of govt not having them while foreign nations come up with them and that applies to BIO warfare too (moreso than nuclear implosion - and fusion is already suppressed it appears...). Choose your battles? Or go full-over 1-side/other? I personally choose some.

Link intended in #22:
CIA Operated Aerial Spraying Plane Carrying "Mutated" Virus Shot Down in China

If we do this we are working for the betterment of mankind. If someone else does it, they are terrorists.

They've done this work and identified a form of the virus which is more contagious to mammals. This is extremely valuable knowledge. Now, if we find this type of flu in the wild, we can act appropriately.

This seems like a good project to me. Now they can contain the virus safely - as they do with all dangerous things that are studied by these professionals on a daily basis - or destroy it. I'd rather they kept a sample to study in case the mutation occurs in the wild, speeding up any response to it, but that's just me.

This is potentially life-saving research. The virus mutates constantly in the wild and we should be prepared to understand what its genome means to our safety. Without these kinds of studies, we have to rely on body counts given by foreign governments, and that has been shown to be inaccurate.

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