To all you Obamacare naysayers:

This is two and a half million people who will not have to hit hospital E.R.'s for primary care, will not have to turn to Medicaid and will not stiff a hospital for their bill because they just can't come up with money.

This is what insurance is for, and the reason for Obamacare was to get everyone possible insured. Two and a half million people are now taking care of themselves, instead of hitting the taxpayer's pocketbook.

You're welcome.

None of these persons will be grateful to Obama for their new status come November, I'm sure. And none of them will fear Republicans will take their status away from them.

Um, you Republicans DO WANT to take it away from them, don't you?

This is what insurance is for, and the reason for Obamacare was to get everyone possible insured. Two and a half million people are now taking care of themselves, instead of hitting the taxpayer's pocketbook.

Oh yes. The same government that hasn't balanced a budget in 50 years, that is currenty running 40% deficits, is going to make health care available to all and bring down costs at the same time. Liberals are incredibly stupid.

Two and a half million people are now taking care of themselves, instead of hitting the taxpayer's pocketbook.

well, now they are hitting the employer's and mom and dad's pocketbook.......which is better than the taxpayer's. agreed.

this wasn't a provision I was against. Wasn't thrilled but not against.

And I doubt anybody will be removing this provision if given the chance.

no, other provisions such as the fines for uninsureds for employers over 50, forcing employers to cover all employees working over 30 hours, etc.....we can argue those points all day and night.

This is two and a half million people who will not have to hit hospital E.R.'s for primary care

Assuming that 26 year-olds are all visiting the ER for primary care, or even give a shit about primary care. Do you remember being 26?

Assuming that 26 year-olds are all visiting the ER for primary care, or even give a shit about primary care.

Nobody gives a shit until they need it.
That's why universal coverage works so well.
Because it's not dependent on people giving a shit.

And sadly that's 2.5 M kids likely to get diagnosed and drugged rather than encouraged to have better health with better information (should be "common sense").

Plus they can get Opium easier than pot... just a sprain away... or some anxiety... or those hillbillies. It's not "health insurance", its "Death Assurance", Insured Death.

I wouldn't be against it if 1/2 of the USA werent on something and it weren't so obvious there's too many $ motives that are having devestating macro-level results. "Over-medication" big time. That keeps return visits, and as long as someone else is payin... that sales rep said...

Nobody gives a shit until they need it.

No shit, moron. The point was that most 26 year olds don't "need it" in the first place, so MTW's claim that this is 2.5M people who won't be using the ER for primary care is bullshit. My guess is about 2.4M of them don't go to the doctor for anything regardless.

This also makes what many of you think is the problem, much much bigger. I'm talking about those evil insurance companies.

Here's 2.5 million more people who are subject to claim denials and harrassment and poor coverage.

I'm just pointing that out to those of you who think the insurance companies ARE the problem.

The point was that most 26 year olds don't "need it" in the first place

True, most of them won't need care.
But for those that will, they should have access to the full spectrum of care.
And now they do.

U mad bro?

But for those that will, they should have access to the full spectrum of care.

Why are you telling me that? Where did I say that they don't deserve access to care? My posts were a response to a moron who said that 2.5M people will now cease using the ER for primary care.

2.5M will now stop using the ER for primary care... when they require care.

This also makes what many of you think is the problem, much much bigger. I'm talking about those evil insurance companies.

Here's 2.5 million more people who are subject to claim denials and harrassment and poor coverage.

Based on their age, they'll be a profit center for managed care, that much is true.

2.5 million parents just had policy increases.

It would be interesting to see a full analysis of the numbers.

If employers begin lowering their subsidies of their family policies at an increased rate, is it really a net gain?

It seems like the very fact that 26 year old adults need to go on their parent's policy is a sign that the current system of insurance is broken.

We just opted out of insurance through work last week because our rates were bumped up to $1,200/month for the new year. Things like free birth control or letting adult children on insurance doesn't do anyone much good when the going rate for insurance is in the ballpark of $15,000/year for a family. Thank God we still have the option of affordable major medical policies for the next two years.

A corporate windfall in the making. All those dues; but comparatively few claims.

Insurance company profits will be even higher as a result. Which is good because it takes the wind out of the sails for "single-payer" schemes.

Just more of those unintended consequences that Liberals so love to ignore.

Can't wait till republicans take over Jan 2013 and cancel these people health care insurance. They don't want any obama care.. But they have Government jobs, so its Ok if there benefits is paid for by the tax payers.

Republicans = Two faced snakes, I got mine piss on you!

The reason for this is that is the demand that children up to 27 can stay on parents policy. Insurance companies have to raise rates to cover this new entitlement.

Democrats = Two faced snakes, I took yours piss on you!

The actuarial success of ZeroCare hangs on nearly all of these young people getting private health insurance, not just a bump of a few percentage points. They need literally all of them, paying thousands of dollars a year in premium they don't use, so that the money can be transferred to the middle-aged and Boomers who were promised insurance coverage without regard to pre-existing conditions.

Remember the story last week about that "artist" from California who dropped her coverage, was diagnosed with breast cancer, then re-applied and got her old insurance back at her old rates? And she wrote an effusive letter to "President" Obama thanking him? She should be thanking these kids instead. They're the ones paying for it.

But not for long. They'll figure out the same thing she did: there's no point in buying insurance. Just wait until you get sick, then do so.

We just opted out of insurance through work last week because our rates were bumped up to $1,200/month for the new year. Things like free birth control or letting adult children on insurance doesn't do anyone much good when the going rate for insurance is in the ballpark of $15,000/year for a family.
#17 | Posted by katieberry at 2011-12-16 08:39 AM | Reply | Flag: NEWSWORTHY

My insurance is gone and good riddens to. Last time I saw a Dr (2007) he said I'd die in a couple years from Type 2 diabetes if I didn't do the drugs he wanted and come back on his schedule and terms. After I told him to f-off I got 3 registered letters saying the same "soft-threats" with "irreversible" and "it will only get worse no matter what you do".

Thankfully I knew better and reversed it via diet (reversed over 3 years now - blogged it here too). So PERSONALLY there's NFW I feel like paying $15K for that to be done to other people. As far as I'm concerned that Dr Pusher and anyone else like him doing that shit deserves to be unemployed. What's more frustrating is seeing how blind/willing some are to go along with that drugification/abuse. WTF?

Oh and I'm learning there's similar lacking appropriate DIET info for just about anything "chronic" directly impacting the core health issues of obesity, heart-disease, cancer, diabetes, ADHD, etc. Its even "biblical" (eg: the Daniel diet, more plant based (there's other similar concepts in the same book)). Death to Diabetes (McCulley), Fat Sick & Nearly Dead, and seceral others have managed to go-round the FDA manipulations by big pharma that seem to happen so often some how... getting the truth to the public with gr8 results (me included on the T2 - what I came up with doing was most like McCulley did while writing his book - and I agree with his results but his FB blog sucks).

Reitze, some people are incapable or unwilling of changing their diet. I'm just saying.

Generally I agree that your story is indicative of a system that views illness as a way to make a buck. Profits come first, healthy outcomes second.

Insurance company profits will be even higher as a result.

Actually, this might bring premiums down for everyone else. Since insurers are now required to "lose" at least 85% of their revenue on actual health care spending.

Actually, this might bring premiums down for everyone else.

no, it won't and you are extremely foolish to believe any such thing.

what, do you think insurance company behavior will change?

insurers are now required to "lose" at least 85% of their revenue on actual health care spending.

you had better pray they make money in the segments where they have to meet these thresholds, because if they don't, then they will get out of those segments.....and that won't help anybody.

"They'll figure out the same thing she did: there's no point in buying insurance."

Yeah, who needs things like preventive care, cancer screenings, etc. Maybe we need a mandate to take care of those too stupid to know they need healthcare insurance.

-Maybe we need a mandate to take care of those too stupid to know they need healthcare insurance.

that is what obamacare largely is.

you did know that, right?

"that is what obamacare largely is. you did know that, right?"

And exactly what Newt endorsed, and Mitt signed into law.

You did know that, right?

-And exactly what Newt endorsed, and Mitt signed into law.

what do I care? But since you brought it up, Mitt signed Obamacare into law?

okay, I'm messing with you as i know what you mean but my point is what do I give a fuck about 2 guys working their asses off (and would cop to killing JFK if it would work) to win a primary election?

"But since you brought it up, Mitt signed Obamacare into law?"

He signed a mandate for the uninsured to buy insurance; you'd referenced that in the post to which I was responding.

you had better pray they make money in the segments where they have to meet these thresholds, because if they don't, then they will get out of those segments.....and that won't help anybody.

Eberly correctly identifies the systemic (and likely fatal) flaw with our so-called health care system.

It is first and foremost a profit generating system, not a health care system.

Snoofy,

don't get me wrong as I am not against this provision nor the one that added children with no pre-existing conditions. It's just that left has cheered this as being so wonderful and all it has done is further empower the insurance industry which the left insists is ALL the problem.

And to take a step further, they believe this is a step closer to a single payer system, which they claim they want. The truth of it is, it won't.

Let me say it this way.......the only way we get closer to a single payer system is if Obamacare fails.

Obamacare is a sellout, no doubt. But if it gets more people coverage, at least there's that.

(Obamacare, something of a misnomer since Congress came up with the plan. Regardless, Obama owns it.)

A good-sized flu epidemic could break our insurance industry. The system has so much inertia behind it, to the tune of 18% of GDP and rising -- three years ago we had these discussion and it was only 16%.

It's so entrenched, I think it will have to fail catastrophically before a system which is primarily purposed towards healthy outcomes can come to the fore.

It's sad to see the "State's Rights" crowd offering no State-based solutions to this problem. Romneycare notwithstanding.

-A good-sized flu epidemic could break our insurance industry.

maybe, but what we are experience right now is a "Fatass" epidemic that has placed the USA at #1 in obesity in the world.

and a flue epidemic would break our govt just the same.

Yeah, who needs things like preventive care, cancer screenings, etc. Maybe we need a mandate to take care of those too stupid to know they need healthcare insurance.

#27 | Posted by danni

All of those things are cheaper to pay out-of-pocket than to buy insurance and then have them pay for it. Why pay $15,000 to $20,000/year in order to get a "free" $200 physical instead of paying $5,000/year and just getting the physical or well exams done out-of-pocket?

Health insurance is a good thing but it doesn't make sense to insure against relatively small and predictable costs like physicals, sick visits, etc. A typical, HIPAA compliant, low deductible, group-plan PPO costs close to $20,000/year for a family in my state.

Those $5 copays and various freebies come at a steep price. They simply don't make sense unless you're independently wealthy or have someone else subsidizing your premiums.

but what we are experience right now is a "Fatass" epidemic that has placed the USA at #1 in obesity in the world.

Coincidentally, there's tremendous profits to be siphoned away from taxpayers once diabetes is diagnosed and the CMS dollars start flowing.

We are fat because somebody gets rich off of it.

We are fat because somebody gets rich off of it.

nobody makes anybody be fat. come on.

we are fat because people in the country only pretend to care about their health.

they don't. plain and simple. we take our health for granted here.

nobody makes anybody be fat. come on.

That's not what I said.
I said it's profitable to make people fat.
The health care expense of fat people is not borne by the people who profit by making them fat.
Once you get a diabetes diagnosis, or turn 65, it's the taxpayer's problem.

Surely you can see the moral hazard inherent in this arrangement.

This is a huge success for Obamacare making insurance companies carry young adults until their 26th birthday. Before the law went into effect they only could stay until their 25th birthday. Bravo! Bravo!

GOP = God's Ordained politicians! The Christian Taliban..

End a women right to choose... Stop the gays in the military from getting married. Teach religion in public schools. These religious freak want to control you!

Reitze, some people are incapable or unwilling of changing their diet. I'm just saying.
Generally I agree that your story is indicative of a system that views illness as a way to make a buck. Profits come first, healthy outcomes second.
#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2011-12-16 01:35 PM | Reply | Flag: Thanks

And at $15K/year that's a lot of bucks for other people to be on drugs they don't need at my expense. THATs why I'm against INSURANCE the way the insurance/pharma/medical system is rigged to overmedicate these days. It's not health care its sickly drug care.

The right will rue the day it coined the term "Obamacare".

you had better pray they make money in the segments where they have to meet these thresholds, because if they don't, then they will get out of those segments.....and that won't help anybody.

Sounds like an opportunity for a public option. A public option doesn't have to make money, just not lose it.

And sadly that's 2.5 M kids likely to get diagnosed and drugged rather than encouraged to have better health with better information (should be "common sense").

No you dumb shit. That's 2.5 million kids who'll go to the doctor and be told long before they're fat lazy fucks developing diabetes that they're becoming fat lazy fucks developing diabetes.

Snoofy, since your mentioned the bible thought you might be interested in this.

φαρμακεια pharmakeia {far-mak-i'-ah} from 5332;; n f AV - sorcery 2, witchcraft 1; 3 1) the use or the administering of drugs 2) poisoning 3) sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it 4) metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry

Yeah, who needs things like preventive care, cancer screenings, etc. Maybe we need a mandate to take care of those too stupid to know they need healthcare insurance.

#27 | Posted by danni

Or, for those too stupid to eat right. Or, too stupid to exercise. Or too stupid to read. Or too stupid to wipe correctly. Or too stupid to use cross-walks.

Jesus, Obama could create all kinds of new and wonderful bureaucracies. Thank goodness for educated idiots.