I miss Jeffy.

Not really, but you get my drift.

"the legislation from House Judiciary Chairman Lamar Smith (R-Texas)."

Texan Republican. Christ, can't we just deport these neanderfucks?

Why waste a plane ticket. Just shoot the motherfuckers.

Texan Republican. Christ, can't we just deport these neanderfucks?

#3 | Posted by nullifidian at 2011-12-12 08:03 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Why waste a plane ticket. Just shoot the motherfuckers.

#4 | Posted by axe at 2011-12-12 08:45 PM |

"WAAAAAAH! There are people who don't think like I do. Get rid of them. They are so icky and they are poopy faces."

signed:
the usual "tolerant, and all inclusive" juvenile libs.

You guys ought to be lucky there are some libs who act older than 8 year olds to balance you children out. Their stuff is worth reading. You children --- not so much. I mean really -- do you honestly think that yet another iteration of "Texas sux" shines some sort of intellectual spotlight on you? Really? You do? That's why you are losers and your more intellectual counterparts who have moved past the "your state sucks" stage aren't.

Grow up for fuck's sake.

"Grow up for fuck's sake."

#5 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Because "for fuck's sake" sounds so "grown up". LOL.

"Grow up for fuck's sake."

#5 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

It would seem to me that if you were 'Grown up' then you wouldn't have to resort to using a four letter word. Grown ups usually don't spew profanity.

Grown ups usually don't spew profanity.

#7 | Posted by coyote at 2011-12-13 09:40 PM | Reply | Flag: Lives in a convent

at least i still got my torrents.

"Unfortunately, there are some critics of this legislation who are not serious about helping to protect America's intellectual property. That's because they've made large profits by promoting rogue sites to U.S. consumers."

Yep cause if you are against more censorship you must be doing something wrong.

"Yep cause if you are against more censorship you must be doing something wrong."

But this isn't more censorship; it's more theft. Owners deserve the rights to their own property, even if someone did invent an automatic door opener.

"But this isn't more censorship; it's more theft"

The hell it isn't. Funny how some people will oppose "censorship" except when it hurts the profits of their masters, the media cartel.

But this isn't more censorship; it's more theft. Owners deserve the rights to their own property, even if someone did invent an automatic door opener.

So instead shoot everyone who rings your door bell?

Working with international governments to actively pursue the folks who run the sites makes sense, building a wall around the communications of the country does not.

if you want to keep your thoughts private don't publish them where they can be copied.

This is not a Republican/Democrat thing. There is bipartisan support and bipartisan resistance to it. There is even a bipartisan alternative bill that attempts to fix the draconian insanity in the bill. This bill is awful, and it's right up there with the DMCA. The DMCA set the precedent for this guilty until proven innocent type of legislation. It needs to be thrown out.

Won't affect me I hack into the pirated porn on my fellow Retorters computers - well except for moderhate his porn is disgusting

Look I am a 24 year old republican by vote because no libertarian is able to get in with any great political force. So I am the next generation who is heavily influenced by the internet, Video games and the like.

Now I can Neither confirm nor deny (XD my favorite BS line)but people get caught ALL the time! and you know what the Movie or software company does when they catch you nothing really they have a lawyer send a take down request to your ISP then your ISP sends it to you so after a few times of playing cat and mouse you may lose your internet service WOW!XD

Like MGM they send you one, you go to the lawyers site and tap a few buttons and write a little BS story about some one ELSE did it and say you have complied with the notice click next and they close your case there is so many people who do it would make your head spin. Now there are two types of "Software Pirates" the ones who do it for personal use and the profiteers the idiots who make money (i.e. the corner side morons that sell them for $5.00 a pop or 3 for $10 you know what i am talking about LOL. I have NO! problem with them getting popped but guess what they will get popped for trespassing before they will ever get popped for copy right infringement why because that really does not concern local cops. It is just the way it is like dying it will always happen is it right well that depends on your moral convictions me i don't give a shit but that is me The Pirate Bay is the greatest did I just write that? oops

now I will say that more often than not I will pay for it if i like it and get rid of it if not because i want to support there development and understand they have cost but come on 5000 dollars for 3D Studio Max another 12000 for a plugin software? may have something to do with all the companies that are guilty of software piracy to save a buck hmmm. good thing I am a student and get it for free from there website. Any how do NOT push this issue Fellow republicans or you will lose any connection to the new generation and they will flee to the other side i.e. OWS idiots which they think understands them better. As much as I despise Anonymous I have to agree with them on this one sorry. And for the idiots who condone any such form of regulation and censorship is a POS bigot who spouts S*** about individual freedoms and yet supplants them by taking big media companies side of which both parties are guilty of.

#17 | Posted by porthos27406

Wow.

***Piracy Bill Makes Linking a Crime****

...that would be the end of this site, as well as the original Drudge Report, Huffington Post, and a large number of other sites as well.....

Grow up for fuck's sake.

#5 | Posted by goatsperm at 2011-12-12 10:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Gotta love the self retorting retort.

BTW, FUCK TEXAS and the whores she rode in on.

Anyone see the commercials in support of this? "Save jobs, stop online piracy". I'm like what the hell?

BTW, FUCK TEXAS and the whores she rode in on.

Yes, fvw, we know. You libs hate an economic success and prefer failure. You want Texas to fail to ensure that NOTHING works in this country. Y'all voted for Obama after all.

Now sit down like a good little boy.

Steers and queers. Especially queers.

Another piece of mind-boggling stupidity from that vast cesspool known as Texas.

Grow up for fuck's sake.

#5 | Posted by goatman

You forgot to blame California again for Texas being full of retards.

Argh, no locking arms boys! They say "linking be illegal!"

" Funny how some people will oppose "censorship" except when it hurts the profits of their masters, the media cartel."

Funny how some people will pretend they're all for the artists, until you discover they diss the media companies while stealing the artists' content at every turn. Those nasty media moguls only pay 10%!...whereas the model I want would pay them...nothing.

"So instead shoot everyone who rings your door bell? "

No, just the ones who come in uninvited, and plan to steal the results of an honest day's work.

""Save jobs, stop online piracy". I'm like what the hell?"

It's very true. Entertainment is a huge export in this country, and with piracy, folks are bypassing paying Americans. Every time a DVD of, say, Breaking Bad sells, everyone from the writers to the producers to the principle performers get a small residual. Every bootleg sale of the same takes that payday away from that American, and we as a country lose tax revenue on that income as well.

You forgot to blame California again for Texas being full of retards.

???

When was the first time, retard? LOL

RE #30

I am gonna go with sometime in July 2007.

GOATMAN
Joined 2007/07/12
Visited 2011/12/14

#31 FAIL (again)

second time's a charm, dummerboy?

"Look I am a 24 year old republican by vote because no libertarian is able to get in with any great political force. So I am the next generation who is heavily influenced by the internet, Video games and the like.
Now I can Neither confirm nor deny (XD my favorite BS line)but people get caught ALL the time! and you know what the Movie or software company does when they catch you nothing really they have a lawyer send a take down request to your ISP then your ISP sends it to you so after a few times of playing cat and mouse you may lose your internet service WOW!XD
Like MGM they send you one, you go to the lawyers site and tap a few buttons and write a little BS story about some one ELSE did it and say you have complied with the notice click next and they close your case there is so many people who do it would make your head spin. Now there are two types of "Software Pirates" the ones who do it for personal use and the profiteers the idiots who make money (i.e. the corner side morons that sell them for $5.00 a pop or 3 for $10 you know what i am talking about LOL. I have NO! problem with them getting popped but guess what they will get popped for trespassing before they will ever get popped for copy right infringement why because that really does not concern local cops. It is just the way it is like dying it will always happen is it right well that depends on your moral convictions me i don't give a shit but that is me The Pirate Bay is the greatest did I just write that? oops
now I will say that more often than not I will pay for it if i like it and get rid of it if not because i want to support there development and understand they have cost but come on 5000 dollars for 3D Studio Max another 12000 for a plugin software? may have something to do with all the companies that are guilty of software piracy to save a buck hmmm. good thing I am a student and get it for free from there website. Any how do NOT push this issue Fellow republicans or you will lose any connection to the new generation and they will flee to the other side i.e. OWS idiots which they think understands them better. As much as I despise Anonymous I have to agree with them on this one sorry. And for the idiots who condone any such form of regulation and censorship is a POS bigot who spouts S*** about individual freedoms and yet supplants them by taking big media companies side of which both parties are guilty of."

Apparently the younger generation is spending so much time pirating software they forgot to learn about punctuation. Yikes. Dude, download a style guide or some grammar checking software, um kay?

"It's very true. Entertainment is a huge export in this country, and with piracy, folks are bypassing paying Americans. Every time a DVD of, say, Breaking Bad sells, everyone from the writers to the producers to the principle performers get a small residual. Every bootleg sale of the same takes that payday away from that American, and we as a country lose tax revenue on that income as well."

They don't get a residual every time it is checked out from a public library or sold used or loaned to a friend. Should those be outlawed as well? Where does it end? I contend, and always will, that file sharing is NOT copy-write infringement or piracy. Selling copies is, but unless someone is making money off it, it is just sharing, and sharing is good. Now, I'm off to Demonoid, have a nice day.

"They don't get a residual every time it is checked out from a public library or sold used or loaned to a friend."

So your answer is to give them less? That because we have libraries, artists shouldn't be paid residuals???

"Should those be outlawed as well? Where does it end?"

Where does it end? Stealing copies which don't belong to you for personal gain. Pretty clear line, wouldn't you say?

"I contend, and always will, that file sharing is NOT copy-write infringement or piracy."

What if the work is copywritten? Should you be able to "share" Stephen King's newest book with a million people you've never met, or should Mr. King actually get the revenue?

"unless someone is making money off it, it is just sharing, and sharing is good"

Not if you're the one being ripped off. If you thought the work was good enough to download, it's good enough to pay for. Using it, or "sharing" it, steals from the owners of the content.

Actually, I both paid for a first edition hardback copy of Stephen King's latest book and downloaded a copy for my ereader that I then seeded and shared with at least a few dozen people. The way I see it, it wasn't any different that loaning the hardback copy to a few dozen friends, which I would never do as I don't plan to crack the spine. Is Sai King going to suffer because I shared, no. Would he be pissed? Maybe. But, I am also responsible for getting at least a few dozen people to read his book and of them will buy it as well. So, my download was much more productive than waiting 3 months to get it at the library or waiting a year and buying a broken down copy at a thrift store for 1.99, neither of which would have netted him a single fucking dime. The way I see it, I helped him market his book for free and will continue to do so. With all the free reviews and publicity I've given him over the years at various book forums, he should be paying me, but I'll settle for reading his book on my ereader without any guilt, thank you very much.

The way I see it...

The most pathetic thing about theft is when the thief feels he has to justify his actions.

"They don't get a residual every time it is checked out from a public library"

Ban public libraries!

--Hollywood

"Is Sai King going to suffer because I shared, no."

Might the publishing house hire less people, or let more people go if everyone buys one copy and "shares" it with multiple folks?

And, I'm just guessing, but I'll bet you had more than one "copy" out at a time, despite the fact you only paid for one, so no, it's NOT the same as loaning a book...especially since you think the book is valuable enough to keep the spine pristine.

"Ban public libraries!"
--Hollywood

Hollywood's not saying that at all. Besides, libraries pay for their copies, unlike thieves.

And remind us: your compensation plan for the creators of these works is still zero percent, correct?

"The way I see it, I helped him market his book for free"

Wow...paid for one, ripped him off for more, and actually believes she was doing him a favor in the marketing department.

"Hollywood's not saying that at all. "

Why not? It's consistent with their logic. Be a PR disaster though. Oh wait. Maybe that's why Hollywood doesn't attack public libraries. You think?

I've read thousands of books I've haven't paid for thanks to public libraries. Thank you, the founders of the public library system. And fuck you, Hollywood.

Hey, Mr. King, I've got a GREAT marketing plan; it involves you getting 1/10th what you deserve!

Can I have a raise?

"Why not?"

Because -- again -- libraries pay for their copies. I know that's a foreign concept to you, which is probably why you needed that pointed out twice.

"I've read thousands of books I've haven't paid for thanks to public libraries."

Good for you; that's what they're there for. Same for movies in the library: they PAID for those copies, for the public good.

That said, how many copywritten works have you ripped off?

That said, how many copywritten works have you ripped off?

#44 | Posted by Danforth

Not nearly as much as Disney Corporation, Hollyforth.

"Not nearly as much as Disney Corporation"

Well, there's a lie. From a thief.

And your compensation plan, again? Still 0%...?

"how many copywritten works have you ripped off?"

The correct question, of course, is how much art, created over centuries, in fact, millenia, has been ripped-off by Hollywood "producers" or "creatives" who later successfully bribed politicians to give them ownership/protection?

The correct question, of course, is how much art, created over centuries, in fact, millenia, has been ripped-off by Hollywood "producers" or "creatives" who later successfully bribed politicians to give them ownership/protection?

#47 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2011-12-14 08:40 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

And yet it is you who chooses to give those exact politicians more power and control over our lives? Insane?

"The correct question, of course, is how much art, created over centuries, in fact, millenia, has been ripped-off by Hollywood "producers" or "creatives" ...?"

Oh, so I guess the answer to "how many copywritten works have you ripped off?" is ALL OF THEM.

See, here's the thing, from a philosophical and logical standpoint, downloading something cannot be considered theft. You are capturing 1's and 0's. They do something, yes, but essentially, unless they are physically printed on something, they are about as tangible as thoughts. No one can own a thought, though 100's of tyrants have tried.

Reading a virtual book is no more stealing that hearing a song. You listen to someone else's cd or you can listen to the radio for free. Just because you happen to capture that song in the form of 1's and 0's, you are not stealing any more than you are if you memorize the sounds that make it up. Is it piracy to sing in the shower? That is technically reproducing and sharing someone's work. Is it piracy to quote a favorite poet? Again, where do you draw the line?

In a research paper, it is not plagarism, or theft, as long as you cite the author giving them credit for their work. Using this logic, as long as the file contains the original author's name and you are not taking credit for it, it is not theft either.

And just to clarify a point you seem to be missing--libraries pay once for a copy of a book and then potentially thousands of people read it. When a file is available online, someone, somewhere paid for it at least once. That makes the library not any different than file sharing, it is just publicly sanctioned. If file sharing is to be considered piracy, then the public library is a form of privateering.

"--libraries pay once for a copy of a book and then potentially thousands of people read it. "

Hollywood hates it. Banning libraries is the logical consequence of their argument.

"from a philosophical and logical standpoint, downloading something cannot be considered theft. You are capturing 1's and 0's."

The law disagrees. And you're just making excuses for thievery.

"They do something, yes"

Yes. Enough that you wanted to own it.

"Just because you happen to capture that song in the form of 1's and 0's, you are not stealing any more than you are if you memorize the sounds that make it up."

What a steaming pile of bullshit. When the work product is 1s and 0s, and someone else is trying to sell those 1s and 0s, and you steal those 1s and 0s, that's stealing.

"In a research paper, it is not plagarism, or theft, as long as you cite the author giving them credit for their work."

But you're not doing that; you're stealing what they're legitimately trying to sell. An author does have the right to try to sell what they create, yes?

"And just to clarify a point you seem to be missing--libraries pay once for a copy of a book and then potentially thousands of people read it."

Yes, for the public good. What you're doing is for private good, and besides, you've paid for (at most) ONE copy, and probably not even that.

"That makes the library not any different than file sharing"

The difference being the library buys a number of rights, and cannot have more than those editions out. Also, the downloads expire.

"If file sharing is to be considered piracy, then the public library is a form of privateering."

Bullshit argument: no artist has complained about libraries. You're trying to blow a smokescreen to justify, in any possible way, the fact you rip off people trying to make a living...because you can. You don't walk into a movie house and not pay, because you might get caught. But you don't worry about that when stealing a movie online, which must makes you a chickenshit thief.

"And you're just making excuses for thievery."

--Hollyforth

The real thievery comes from the media cartel which has been ripping off the public and their own artists for decades. The stories of how these parasites have mistreated their artists are endless.

And yet, despite this miserable record, union representatives still keep their jobs. Amazing.

You can go to someone else's house and watch a movie on DVD or cable. You are not paying for it. So I guess that if you own a dvd or a book or pay for cable, only you, the person who pays for it is legally able to view it? By your logic, if a school purchases a dvd and shows it to 1000 students a year for 10 years, it is for the public good, so the author can't bitch. If I purchase a dvd, copy it and share it with 10,000 friends it is stealing. Horseshit. Your argument is the one that is not logically sound. You are muddying the water with sentimental crap. That is an unforgivable sin in a logical argument, and you know it. I bet if I went through your posts, you have accused other people of the very same thing over and over again, but it is only a valid argument if you are the one spewing the sentimental crap.

"You can go to someone else's house and watch a movie on DVD or cable. You are not paying for it."

They're paying for it. I can't believe anyone is actually this dense.

"If I purchase a dvd, copy it and share it with 10,000 friends it is stealing."

Yes. Stealing. And you're not "sharing" it; you don't know those people. You're facilitating their theft, the same as if you were holding the flashlight while someone else looted a store.

"You are muddying the water with sentimental crap. "

Yeah, crap like the creators of the art you so desperately want should be paid. REAL sentimental.

Do you EVER plan on paying the artist, or is buying ONE copy and "sharing" it with 10,000 people you don't know the sum total of your compensation plan?

"The real thievery comes from the media cartel which has been ripping off the public and their own artists for decades. "

Why should anyone listen to someone gripe about a system when his replacement for that system is to rip them off even more???

And "the real thievery", as if to deflect away from HIS thievery. The gall is staggering.

"And yet, despite this miserable record, union representatives still keep their jobs."

Maybe because the alternative is plans like yours: immediately embrace an even WORSE record.

Again, they actually PAY the artists, and some creators get rich. Your plan is still to pay them nothing, right? Zero? Zilch? Just continue to rip them off, all the while bitching that folks who are paying them more are ripping them off???

I come here for the comedy, and reading thieves trying to justify their stealing is near the top.

"Your argument is the one that is not logically sound."

You're full of shit. I know people who have lost health care because their most recent album got ripped off more than it got downloaded. It's easy for you to pretend it's faceless, but I guarantee you, it has lots of faces, and you're taking bread off their table. This is no different than having a universal garage door opener: just because the door opens doesn't mean you have the right to other people's property.

Do you EVER plan on paying the artist,

#55 | Posted by Danforth

Why don't you union guys concentrate on getting your employers to pay your artists first? That's your job. Then you can worry about lecturing the rest of us. Your constituents are getting pennies on the dollar.

"Why don't you union guys concentrate on getting your employers to pay your artists first?"

We do, and they do.

You, on the other hand, don't.

And you're trying to pretend you're somehow the defender of the artist???

What a steaming pile of Nullifidian.

I know people who have lost health care because their most recent album got ripped off...

LOL

Well, then...I guess they lost "health care"....

Game, set, match....

Jesus Christ you people crack me up.

"Maybe because the alternative is plans like yours"

What plan? I haven't voiced a plan. I'm not in the industry. The artists need to come up with a plan, and some of them are. Your plan is a miserable failure. They need new ideas, and obviously those ideas won't come from reactionary fossils and union hacks fighting the latest technology, Jack Valenti Danforth.

Wait....wait

I got one.

I know people who have lost their right to a living wage because their most recent album got ripped off...

Somebody stole my RepoMan Soundtrack, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt....I guess I was lucky, I could have lost my health insurance...

Hey jak, have you seen americunty since he denied Obama tried to extend our Iraqi adventure and failed? Me either...

"We do, and they do."

Yeah, great job. Hollyforth. What is it? About 5 cents on the dollar for the average artist? LOL. If I was in your union I would've voted to fire you years ago.

"Funny how some people will oppose "censorship" except when it hurts the profits of their masters, the media cartel."
Funny how some people will pretend they're all for the artists, until you discover they diss the media companies while stealing the artists' content at every turn. Those nasty media moguls only pay 10%!...whereas the model I want would pay them...nothing.
#27 | Posted by Danforth at 2011-12-14 03:52 PM

Actually, it's proven that online file sharing and pre-releases increase sales of music and movies considerably and only increases each quarter.

I know that you are too stubborn to not argue what you feel - that's quite admirable, but you are wrong-thinking on this subject. For what it's worth - you are worth this argument, absolutely.

There isn't a manner of "protecting" copies from being shared other than to force exclusive production, such as watermarking, incorporated weaving and other physical measures. This tends to increase production costs and greatly reduces market penetration - which is the only consideration you appear to have a serious concern for.

Regarding digitization - that is precisely what the variety of file formats are all about - proprietarization at cost.

Consider that mp3's are always a lossy format - nowhere near as clean as LAME, APE or WAV. The first mp3's were 128 kbit and not all were stereo, now we're anxious for surround 5:1 as a minimum. I collect bootlegs of Kraftwerk concerts from video tape camcorders are becoming extremely rare - how lucky that fans were willing to capture those concerts. Official concert tapes? They don't even exist.

Second, know that M$ doesn't support Windows 2000, Windows NT, Win98 etc. What happens when some business requires modifying the script of a driver to interact in a manner that "violates" M$ as a coherent operating system? Maybe that needs to be done to every one of their computers? M$ still own the copyright on each individual machine, and have not supported those old operating systems for decades - but according to the law M$ does not permit any changes to it's operations, particularly where a profit is incurred. Do you think the punishment merits the legal incursion?

On topic: deep linking is necessary - whatever this law is intended to do it isn't "protection" whatsoever. My guess is this is intended to "develop" a new aspect of TIA.

"Your constituents are getting pennies on the dollar."

And you clearly think that's too much, since you pay them less.

But please, continue your righteous lecture from your high horse. Tell us, since you're SO concerned with the artists, have you ever bypassed those mean media moguls and send cash to the group directly?

Of course you haven't. That would actually require you to put your money where your mouth is, and there's no doing that as long as you can steal and get away with it.

Not that you'd go into a store and rip off a CD. You might get caught and have to take responsibility for that to happen.

"Not that you'd go into a store and rip off a CD"

Well that would be stupid. Why do that when there's great websites like Piratebay, Demonoid, etc? LOL.

" Why do that when there's great websites like Piratebay, Demonoid, etc? LOL."

Lovely. Rip people off, laugh about it, and complain that the folks trying to get them paid aren't paying them enough.

"Actually, it's proven that online file sharing and pre-releases increase sales of music and movies considerably and only increases each quarter."

Where did you get that shit? Music sales have been decreasing for years. We look at the numbers all the time. Please link.

"you are wrong-thinking on this subject."

My thinking is the creators should be compensated. Where am I wrong?

And while we're here...do you ever feel anything when you're stealing what you know doesn't belong to you, and taking money out of the creators' pockets? Or is it all okay just because you know you won't get caught?

What's that saying: you can tell the character of a man when he thinks no one is watching.

I guess Danforth believes in trickle down economics. Conspire with the media cartel to rip off the public, and maybe a few golden showers might trickle down to the outstretched tongues of the artists and their "representatives".

"Actually, it's proven that online file sharing and pre-releases increase sales of music and movies considerably and only increases each quarter."
Where did you get that shit? Music sales have been decreasing for years. We look at the numbers all the time. Please link.
"you are wrong-thinking on this subject."
My thinking is the creators should be compensated. Where am I wrong?
And while we're here...do you ever feel anything when you're stealing what you know doesn't belong to you, and taking money out of the creators' pockets? Or is it all okay just because you know you won't get caught?
What's that saying: you can tell the character of a man when he thinks no one is watching.
#70 | Posted by Danforth at 2011-12-14 10:15 PM

You are awesome, but the argument that I should "feel" isn't necessarily inspiring faith that my money is going to the multi-million dollar per album artist, only the little ones that I honestly contact.

Would a link depicting the reality of increasing internet sales really prove anything to you? If you don't already know.. my logic is lost on you until you perhaps witness the restrictions of a license that is good on one of my entertainment devices, but not another. Or, that I would need to re-download a new copy of the game I just bought because my data cannot be transferred - due to a proprietary format, or cable or whatever. That "increases" sales too. By actual crook.

You would be disgusted at my "character" - I'm fictitious, there are no others. My compassion extends to the insects and I mist up at Merci chocolates commercials - regardless anyone watching.:]

Also, everything I've ever written, produced or inspired is absolutely freely given without any compensation considered. Profit if you may.

"the argument that I should "feel" isn't necessarily inspiring faith that my money is going to the multi-million dollar per album artist, only the little ones that I honestly contact."

Riiiiiiight. And how much money have you sent to the artists over the years?

"Would a link depicting the reality of increasing internet sales really prove anything to you? "

Sure, as long as the site is reputable. Because I see the numbers, and they tell a different story. Link away.

"my logic is lost on you until you perhaps witness the restrictions of a license that is good on one of my entertainment devices, but not another."

I agree with you there, but that's not a good reason to rip off the creators.

"everything I've ever written, produced or inspired is absolutely freely given without any compensation considered. "

But you'll allow that others want to write for profit, and have that right?

"You would be disgusted at my "character""

Well ultimately, that's all we're left with, isn't it.

Danforth, I sense you are taking this a bit personally. Is it your personal paycheck you are worried about? It appears to be clouding your reasoning. I am giving you a clear and logical argument and all you can do is scream, "Mommy, Mommy, Billy stole my cookies and it's not fair. I want compensation!" Get a grip. In the real world, everybody fucks everybody. At least people who are downloading are doing it because they appreciate the person's work, not for their own profit like the record companies, marketing companies, concert venues, and retailers.

Oh, and nice anecdotal evidence you got going there. Who is this alleged artist who lost their health care because their album was downloaded too much and can you show how that was directly the cause and not just the fact that they sucked or got a raw deal from the record company?

Danforth, I sense you are taking this a bit personally.

add it to the list of issues he takes personally.

"Is it your personal paycheck you are worried about?"

Do people like you steal my work? Yes.

"I am giving you a clear and logical argument "

Bullshit. Your "argument" is you should be able to rip the creators off, and your "logic" is one purchase should allow 10,000 thefts.

"Mommy, Mommy, Billy stole my cookies and it's not fair. I want compensation!""

Well...shouldn't there be fair compensation, or are you endorsing Billy's theft?

"Who is this alleged artist who lost their health care because their album was downloaded too much"

A guy I've worked alongside for about 15 years.

"and can you show how that was directly the cause and not just the fact that they sucked or got a raw deal from the record company?"

He's more popular than ever, while his record "sales" have dropped precipitously. The deal from the record company is the same (or better) than ever. I know: we negotiate the contract.

"Get a grip. In the real world, everybody fucks everybody. "

And ultimately, you've just exposed the sum total of your morality. Clearly, a nod to conscience would be worthless.

"research from Harvard business school"

From 2004, aka a lifetime ago in the download world. Are you really that big of a moron?

He's more popular than ever, while his record "sales" have dropped precipitously.

Does that describe all the artists you know? Are they all experiencing a drop in sales?

If an artist creates purely for cash and not for the glory of creating or for the pleasure of seeing their work adored, then honestly, I couldn't give fuck less for their bottom line or yours for that matter.

Personally, I would be flattered that people were curious enough about my work enough to download it and excited to see them buy it after they have enjoyed it. If downloading is truly affecting someone's bottom line it's because their work is not worth paying for. Not like the 15 or so copies of Nirvana's Nevermind album that I have personally paid for and worn out and then finally downloaded so I can enjoy it for another 20 years. Courtney-hole might be pissed, but I'm sure Kurt would be ok with it, lol!

In any event, give me a name, because I really feel a burning desire to validate your argument as I'm laughing so hard I'm pissing my pants.

Better yet, can you cite a valid source proving it does affect record sales?

"Does that describe all the artists you know? Are they all experiencing a drop in sales?"

Illegal downloads account for 90%-95% of the copywritten music disseminated. In raw dollars, the highest sales were in 2000. Some artists are affected more than others, of course, but everyone is feeling the hurt: someone invented a key which allows their work product to be stolen. How would that affect you, if at the end of the day, your boss said someone had pirated your work, and you wouldn't be paid?

Again, this all happens due to a failure of character. These folks wouldn't think of walking into a movie theatre without paying, or palming a CD in a store, but in the amoral vacuum, they look for every reason then can to justify stealing someone else's property. And it's easy, because it's faceless. Well, I see the faces; it's not.

"In any event, give me a name"

Sure: Mr. Gofuckyourself.

Although in spirit I agree with thinskinforth, this is where he pretends anectdotal stories and emotion pass for fact, as well as where he moves goalposts...but that's ok, because his rules only apply to you, not him...

"If an artist creates purely for cash and not for the glory of creating or for the pleasure of seeing their work adored, then honestly, I couldn't give fuck less for their bottom line or yours for that matter. "

You're full of shit: you're waiting breathlessly to steal their next creation. And do YOU work for free, or are you one of those monetary fucks who doesn't work for the glory or pleasure of creating a good work product like you demand from others?

"Personally, I would be flattered that people were curious enough about my work enough to download it"

Well good for you. Feel free to devote the next decade or so of your life to creating work you give away, if you want.

"If downloading is truly affecting someone's bottom line it's because their work is not worth paying for."

You've got to be kidding me? You're stealing stuff, and then blaming the creators for not making enough money???

"Not like the 15 or so copies of Nirvana's Nevermind album that I have personally paid for"

15 copies? Ah...that old tactic: when the truth fails you...lie.

"this is where he pretends anectdotal stories and emotion pass for fact"

Feel free to Mittsie me, 101...you know, a friendly little $10,000 bet?

"as well as where he moves goalposts"

And where was that, other than your head?

"Better yet, can you cite a valid source proving it does affect record sales?"

Sure. And when I do, what will be your response? I ask because you're ducking everything else.

"can you cite a valid source"

Actually, I was underestimating. I just counted up in my head and I've actually bought and paid for 17 legitimate copies of that album, as well as 10 over priced concert tickets, 3 posters, 2 T shirts, and an uncountable amount of magazines containing articles about said album. If I had met Kurt Cobain on the street prior to his early demise brought on by the stress of commercial success and worries about selling out his art, I would have handed $20 bucks and said, Hey man, thanks for changing my life and the face of music as we know it." Fuck yes, I downloaded it and I would do it again.

I also downloaded the last Metallica album. It sucked like the vacuum of space, so I deleted it. Lars Ulrich can go cry in a corner of his gigantic mansion if he feels the need, but Metallica's album sales are down because their music is tired, repetitive, self cannibalizing, over-hyped dog vomit and no one in their right mind would pay their hard earned money for it.

#89 | POSTED BY DANFORTH AT 2011-12-15 12:14 AM | REPLY | FLAG: Huh?

This is your retort? I said proving, not just claiming. It says album sales are down. Are you really trying to logically say that the reason Britney Spears' latest album didn't go platinum in the first week is because of file sharing? Have you heard it? And your second link actually proves my point. Jesus Christ is it late where you are or are you this stupid all the time?

As for my work, if it were not for federal banking regulations that protect the privacy and security of transaction information, I would upload copies of some of my finest work for all the world to hear. I can construct logical arguments that have made even lawyers cry. All while being polite, professional, honest, forthcoming, and fair. It's a sight to behold and I would share it gladly for free. As for my personal artistic creations, I don't write for money, I write for the sake of writing and am happy when someone likes what I have to say.

"I said proving, not just claiming. "

I work with the Union which processes the payments.

"Are you really trying to logically say that the reason Britney Spears' latest album didn't go platinum in the first week is because of file sharing? Have you heard it? "

I'm not making any claims about the quality of the recording. The only folks making that statement are the ones interested enough in it to acquire it. Some will acquire it by purchasing it, although most (you included) will steal it, simply because you can, and no one will catch you. And while Britney herself probably won't feel it, there are studio musicians and background singers who will.

"your second link actually proves my point."

No, it proves mine:
CD sales peaked in 2000 when the labels sold 942 million units, raking in $13.2 billion in sales.

" I just counted up in my head and I've actually bought and paid for 17 legitimate copies of that album"

Vinyl, cassette, 8-track, CD, download...what were the other 12?

" as well as 10 over priced concert tickets, 3 posters, 2 T shirts, and an uncountable amount of magazines containing articles about said album."

You chose to buy the those. And what...you didn't sneak in and steal the price of a ticket? Why...afraid you might get caught?

"If I had met Kurt Cobain on the street prior to his early demise brought on by the stress of commercial success and worries about selling out his art, I would have handed $20 bucks and said, Hey man, thanks for changing my life and the face of music as we know it.""

Yeah, but you didn't, so you didn't, and you STILL haven't paid the artist for his stuff you stole, the music you claim had such an influence over your life. But it's okay, because if you HAD met him, you WOULD have actually supported what he did.

"I also downloaded the last Metallica album. It sucked like the vacuum of space, so I deleted it"

I'm sure Metallica is going to be crushed that someone who stole their work didn't like it. Do you similarly sneak into movies you don't like? Oh, right...you don't even ask for your money back if you don't like a movie.

"but Metallica's album sales are down because their music is tired"

Yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with their so-called "fans" stealing their music, right before commenting how their music sales are "down", which somehow proves their product has waned. Too fucking rich!

"As for my personal artistic creations, I don't write for money"

Should people be allowed to?

"As for my work, if it were not for federal banking regulations that protect the privacy and security of transaction information, I would upload copies of some of my finest work for all the world to hear"

And what if you got to the end of the day, and someone had already turned in your report, so your boss said you wouldn't be paid?

See, when you went to copy it, an e-copy zipped to someone's desk who works closer to the boss's office. And since the boss already had a copy when you showed up, he didn't need to "buy" yours.

Sorry...hope your work doesn't get ripped off tomorrow, but isn't it cool how that guy invented the copy-zapper? That way, folks can enjoy your work without having to pay you!

17 cds you fucking idiot. You've never broken a cd, left it in a hot car, lost it on the bus, or just plain worn it out and had to replace it? Never bought a cd you loved as a gift for a friend? I guess not. I get the impression you don't even like music.

#95 Sure, people should be allowed to write for money. Commercial success is the dream of most writers, including me. But if someone has lost sight of the idea of someone enjoying and admiring their work and their only concern is "show me the money," then they have lost their credibility as an artist, their work generally becomes poorly crafted drivel, and they might as well be laying sewer pipe for all the world to shit in for free because it is no longer worth paying for. As a result, people will download it, recognize it isn't worth a shit, and not decide to ultimately pay for it. Hence, their decrease in sales is their own fault, not the fault of the person who downloaded it.

You are still missing the point that filesharers are NOT making any money off the files they download. If they are selling it, it is stealing, that was never up for debate.

It doesn't matter if someone makes a profit. If I go to the local supermarket, steal food and then give it away for free I'm still going to be arrested for theft.

An apple is a consumable product a song is not. If I take an apple and give away, that person presumably eats it and it does not exist anymore. If I download a song and share it with 10,000 friends, that song still exists. you are literally comparing apples to oranges and it is not a valid comparison, but thanks for playing.

"17 cds you fucking idiot. You've never broken a cd, left it in a hot car, lost it on the bus, or just plain worn it out and had to replace it? "

Great: you're blaming the industry for you leaving the CD in the hot car, and using the fact you lost it on a bus as justification for stealing it next time.

"if someone has lost sight of the idea of someone enjoying and admiring their work and their only concern is "show me the money," then they have lost their credibility as an artist"

On the contrary, one of the best lessons I ever learned in acting class was "if you want to do it for a living, never give it away for free". It was great advice: no one forces any other profession to prove purity by doing it for free; why should artists be the exception? It's only the poser-"arteests" who are too cowardly and untalented to compete for the paycheck, and they're always the ones pooh-poohing the folks who make a living at it.

"their work generally becomes poorly crafted drivel, and they might as well be laying sewer pipe for all the world to shit in for free because it is no longer worth paying for. "

You're joking, right? If they get paid, that proves they're no longer worth paying for, yet you didn't pay in the past anyway?!? (I think I've just entered the Escher version of a debate.)

"As a result, people will download it, recognize it isn't worth a shit, and not decide to ultimately pay for it."

And if they like it? Do they re-download it, and pay for it that time? Aw, gee...they don't, do they. YOU don't either. Even if you love it, even if it was today's Cobain, you'd still steal it, right? And you want to be an artist who gets paid for work product while you steal other's???

"17 cds you fucking idiot. You've never broken a cd, left it in a hot car, lost it on the bus, or just plain worn it out and had to replace it? "

Great: you're blaming the industry for you leaving the CD in the hot car, and using the fact you lost it on a bus as justification for stealing it next time.

"if someone has lost sight of the idea of someone enjoying and admiring their work and their only concern is "show me the money," then they have lost their credibility as an artist"

On the contrary, one of the best lessons I ever learned in acting class was "if you want to do it for a living, never give it away for free". It was great advice: no one forces any other profession to prove purity by doing it for free; why should artists be the exception? It's only the poser-"arteests" who are too cowardly and untalented to compete for the paycheck, and they're always the ones pooh-poohing the folks who make a living at it.

"their work generally becomes poorly crafted drivel, and they might as well be laying sewer pipe for all the world to shit in for free because it is no longer worth paying for. "

You're joking, right? If they get paid, that proves they're no longer worth paying for, yet you didn't pay in the past anyway?!? (I think I've just entered the Escher version of a debate.)

"As a result, people will download it, recognize it isn't worth a shit, and not decide to ultimately pay for it."

And if they like it? Do they re-download it, and pay for it that time? Aw, gee...they don't, do they. YOU don't either. Even if you love it, even if it was today's Cobain, you'd still steal it, right?

And you want to be an artist who gets paid for work product while you steal other's???

Apologies for the double.

"If I download a song and share it with 10,000 friends, that song still exists"

First, you don't have 10,000 "friends"; you've enabled 10,000 people to steal a song.

Second, would any of them have paid for the song otherwise?

An apple is a consumable product a song is not.

OK. So if a steal a non consumable product and then give it away I won't be arrested for theft?

'Thanks for playing', indeed.

I read about half the comments... Danforth - get a clue.

Over the years I pirated, many games. I also pirated music. I don't anymore. I haven't in years. Still it is very tempting to do so, but I have simply chose to consume less.

There are a few simple reasons for both.

You simply don't have all the resources to get everything you want. As a kid, the pirating of cassette tapes was off the charts. In my circle of friends we were lucky to have one original. Music industry NEVER made a stink back then. As I started buying more and more artists music - yes BUYING - I started getting crappy album after album. There was no way to buy singles and making a CD was expensive and difficult at first - so no way to combine singles into a good collection anyhow. Still no real cry from the Music Industry or even a solution to crap music collections. I was getting pissed. Same thing with computer programs and games. Games in particular. When it came to music and programs, my circles would buy one and we would all make copies. In all honesty if it was worth listening to or playing/using - we would buy a copy. Otherwise the crap went into the bin. In comes hi-speed internet. Now everyone can SEE what is going on in mass scale. They couldn't before. It is "costing" them "billions".

I say Bullshit. They turned music and programs into a mass production engine to get people to simply buy more. It wasn't working. With the costs of programs and music - is it any wonder people copy them? When it comes to books - same thing. The libraries actually have a good model they would like to use for electronic books. The problem is that the industry is in all truth very greedy and won't work with them or price things in a sane realm.

I understand these people are in business to make money but their greed out weighs their intelligence. Sure some of those people will never buy your crap. That should be incentive to produce something better. I am tired of music collections with one good song, $60 games that are junk and $1500 programs that are so buggy they ruin your productivity. Fix your shit! You don't need a release every 90 days...

The downloading of music issue and linking should be dealt with separately. I just do not see how the linking can be enforced because it is such a major part of "the web". So from now on, every website you visit will possibly have broken links? YouTube reposts no longer allowed? The ramifications are going to be humongous and felt far and wide. But in typical fashion, our lunatic elected officials will be ignorant and shut down the web.

"our lunatic elected officials will be ignorant and shut down the web"

You simply don't have all the resources to get everything you want.

Talk about entitlement!