Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, November 14, 2011

Federal safety regulators said Friday that they were examining lithium-ion batteries used in electric cars because a Chevrolet Volt ignited three weeks after it underwent a crash test.

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vernon

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Posted by vernon

I LIKE that headline. Nice Job vernon

FF

Will this affect our $7,500 federal tax liability subsidy? -The DR Left

"The Volt was developed with almost four hundred million dollars in federal subsidies, plus millions more in subsidies offered to purchasers by both federal and state governments. All for a car that sold 2,029 units in two years. That works out to over $197,000 in taxpayer subsidies for each unit sold thus far."

www.americantradition.org August 28, 2011

#2 | Posted by wisgod

HR 7734 Volt option package

Another case in point...

Hope and change and not FUCKING clue

SUCKERS

Maybe GM can add a solar component to it with Solyndra solar panels????

Looks like we'll need to bail out the R&D Department.

It should be noted that the Volt in question did not get its battery discharged according to Chevrolet's protocols, and that it was put into storage in that condition.

www.huliq.com

www.thedetroitbureau.com

Once again: If all else fails, read the instructions.

Once again: If all else fails, read the instructions.

#8 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore

It didn't work with Toyota floor mats, but I'm sure it will when it concerns Goverment Motors.

Will obummer now claim the Volt to be as dangerous as a Toyota?

Will obummer now claim the Volt to be as dangerous as a Toyota?

#10 | Posted by glasshouse

No. He'll shit on Indianna but not Michigan.

Headline win.

Another case in point...

Hope and change and not FUCKING clue

SUCKERS

#5 | Posted by glasshouse

Another dumbass HOPING and praying that things don't CHANGE.

#13 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2011-11-14 09:07 PM

Another loser willing to blindly follow obummer off the cliff.

Another dumbass HOPING and praying that things don't CHANGE.

#13 | Posted by donnerboy

No, you simple fuck. Another I told you so to fools who think the Federal Goverment should piss away our tax dollars on a piece of shit. Brush yourself off, stupid.

"It didn't work with Toyota floor mats, but I'm sure it will when it concerns Goverment Motors."

When you have proof of this inane statement, get back to me.

Ah, yes - Wisgod's obligatory "I got nuthin', so I'll make a whore joke."

I own 2 of them and have the statements from Toyota after the investigation. What have you got besides a dirty mouth?

P.S., Wisgod:

The difference between Toyota's brake pedal problem and the Chevy Volt problem is this:

Toyota did not know it had a problem until there were user complaints, and once those complaints started rolling in, took some time to address the problem.

General Motors had a post-crash battery discharge protocol for the Volt figured out before the car was released, which was not followed in this instance.

So - how are you faulting GM for being more prepared than Toyota was? It's not GM's fault the protocol was not followed - in fact, it's especially stupid that NHTSA employees - who damn well ought to look at the instructions if anyone should - didn't follow it.

"What have you got besides a dirty mouth?"

I get to spend my life blessedly free of being you.

I get to spend my life blessedly free of being you.

#21 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore

I know what you mean. I lack your plumbing that you could hear an echo in.

That echo is between your ears, dear.

So - how are you faulting GM for being more prepared than Toyota was? It's not GM's fault the protocol was not followed - in fact, it's especially stupid that NHTSA employees - who damn well ought to look at the instructions if anyone should - didn't follow it.

#20 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore

So the NHTSA employees couldn't figure it out, but you expect the normal consumer too? As you well know, you couldn't debate yourself out of a back seat, regardless of model.

That echo is between your ears, dear.

#23 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore

Great comeback, Carrot-crouch.

"So the NHTSA employees couldn't figure it out, but you expect the normal consumer too?"

The Volt is new tech, which always has teething troubles. How long did it take everyone to learn to use computers?

And who is to say that NHTSA employees couldn't figure it out? It seems to me to be more a case of disregarding the instructions than one of something too complicated or arcane for people to understand.

Enough with the whore jokes. Unless you can come up with a clever one, which knowing you, I rather doubt.

And who is to say that NHTSA employees couldn't figure it out?

#26 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore at 2011-11-14 10:18 PM

It's not GM's fault the protocol was not followed - in fact, it's especially stupid that NHTSA employees - who damn well ought to look at the instructions if anyone should - didn't follow it.

#20 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore

Looks like you did. What would you like me to call you going forward?

P.S. Bright is not an option, Whore.

Jak:

The Volt is a first step. We will have better tech later on, but we had to start somewhere.

I can agree that perhaps it should not have been governmentally subsidized. But we need to figure out ways to get more use out of fossil fuels, and eventually not to need them so much.

We have come a long, long way in only a few years. Hybrids were unknown fifteen years ago; now they're everywhere, even here in Iowa. There are reasonably viable electrics out there. Hydrogen is a reality, if not anything like commonplace.

The Volt is intended to be Middle America's way to save fossil fuel, using an approach that balances electrically-generated economy with the realities of an infrastructure heavily weighted towards gasoline. Is it perfect? No. Is it better than the wastefulness of cars up until a few years back? I think so.

Wisgod:

Mary will do just fine.

P.S., Wisgod:

I'm sure the NHTSA employees could have figured it out. What seems to have happened was a disregard for the need to do so.

I think this incident says more about the motivation of government employees than it says about General Motors' preparedness.


I'm sure the NHTSA employees could have figured it out. What seems to have happened was a disregard for the need to do so.

#32 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore

OK, MARY. You win. Bwahahahahaha!!!! Goodnight.

How many tries did it take before regular gas powered cars caught on and were deemed safe? How many before the plane did?

I know electric cars are new and I know concervatives by nature are scared of change. But get over your dependence on oil and the middle east.

The electric care caught on fire? Good the next one won't. You fucking money grubbing haters need to get over your megalomania and give this car time to evolve.

-How many tries did it take before regular gas powered cars caught on and were deemed safe? How many before the plane did?

I don't know...how many? do you know or are you making that all up?

The Volt is a first step.

So is an Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator that extracts moisture from trap-rock to meet the growing water demands of the 21st century.

Its a "first step" on a path that is stupid, ill-conceived, unfeasible, and makes no sense whatsoever.

Electric cars aren't going to solve the "problems" that stupid liberal shitstains think exist.

In short, they are the "organic food" of transportation.

"How many tries did it take before regular gas powered cars caught on and were deemed safe? How many before the plane did?"

Sadly, The Wrong Brothers never lived to tell their tale....

Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator

is that from Bugs Bunny?

I didn't know they were worried about the planes catching on fire until they crashed.

Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator
is that from Bugs Bunny?
#38 | Posted by eberly

Silly Rabbit, it's Marvin the Martian

Where's the kaboom?

I know electric cars are new

#34 | Posted by Clownshack

Actually, they are new again. This ain't the electric car's first tango.

"But get over your dependence on oil and the middle east."

Enough with the Middle East Oil Boogeyman. Look a little closer to home: Canada (1), Mexico (2), Venezuela (4), with Brazil on the horizon.

And it will be quite a while before the EV replaces the OV (oil vehicle). EVs are great when the weather is good and the distances are short. The Volt compensates for distance with a gas-powered generator. Kinda cheating really. But when the snow flies and the temperature drops, EVs become less useful. Batteries lose power. More power is required to run the heating/defrosting system. Low resistance tire compounds don't play well in the snow and ice.

You are aware, of course, that in the history of everything we have that works today there was a period of time during which it didn't work.

The poor mouthbreathers are just parroting what them have been programmed to parrot. Ignore them.

Oil good!!!! Green Bad!!!! Squawk!!!! Polly want a scrotum!!!!!

Actually, it's oil we need to reduce our dependence on--not Middle East oil, not foreign oil; OIL.

But okay, I'll accept that it's not that easy. Energy is a national security issue. Why we aren't discussing it that way in the corridors of power is beyond me.

Cheapest recall in history... How many have they sold? A couple thousand? LMAO!!

Subsidies for developing high tech modern vehicles bad.
Subsidies for oil companies good.

"Oil industry officials say that the tax breaks, which average about $4 billion a year according to various government reports, are a bargain for taxpayers. By helping producers weather market fluctuations and invest in technology, tax incentives are supporting an industry that the officials say provides 9.2 million jobs."

Oil company officals say? What would you expect oil company officials to say?

www.nytimes.com

What percent of electricity generated for electric cars is actually generated through burning coal?

Another case in point...

Hope and change and not FUCKING clue

SUCKERS

#5 | Posted by glasshouse at 2011-11-14 08:46 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

Ass2Mouth, Please explain to all of us what the Chevy volt catching fire has to do with President Obama.

Subsidies for oil companies good.

I agree Danni, oil and gas pays for public schools in NM.

We have come a long, long way in only a few years. Hybrids were unknown fifteen years ago; now they're everywhere
#30 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore at 2011-11-14 10:49 PM

Hey Whore,
you should tell Ford and Edison about this new technology called EV's.

"At about the time Ford Motor Co. was founded in 1903, Edison had made inroads with battery technology and started offering nickel-iron batteries for several uses, including automobiles. Later that year, he announced plans to convert four large touring cars to electric power"
Ford began to change his mind, however, and by early 1914, word spread that he was working on a low-priced electric car. Reports appeared in the Wall Street Journal, in trade magazines and in newspapers as far away as New Zealand regarding Ford’s foray into EVs. Ford confirmed the rumors in The New York Times on January 11, 1914:

Within a year, I hope, we shall begin the manufacture of an electric automobile. I don’t like to talk about things which are a year ahead, but I am willing to tell you something of my plans.

The fact is that Mr. Edison and I have been working for some years on an electric automobile which would be cheap and practicable. Cars have been built for experimental purposes, and we are satisfied now that the way is clear to success. The problem so far has been to build a storage battery of light weight which would operate for long distances without recharging. Mr. Edison has been experimenting with such a battery for some time"
following taken from
www.wired.com

and guess what whore, still have the storage and range problems they had 100 years ago.

Dear Kersh:

Do you mean to tell me that the Tesla Roadster, with its 245-mile range and a 0-60 time of 3.7 seconds, does not represent just a wee bit of an advance over the pioneering efforts of Mssrs. Ford and Edison?

The volt is a perfect example of a corporate politics forcing incrementalism to oblivious fuck up of the systems engineering.

It has a gas engine that adds over 500 lbs to the weight of the car. With that much weight even SLA batteries would give it adequate range.

As far as gas, a 20HP external generator sitting on the trunk-lid would be all that's necessary to give it unlimited gas-range (rolling friction at 65mph is roughly 10hp). And for normal intended use the gas apparatus could be left at home (or not even purchased).

Instead the volt is a bastardized cross function design that does neither very well.

BTW, that sort of perspective is easy for a systems engineer (msee+25yrs)- sorta like arm-chair mechanical engineering, but within corporate politics I'm sure the good SE's at GM were given other things to work on or let go. Here's a pic of my bike: Power Bike (.jpg ). It cost me $700 to build and I've never seen one that can perform as well anywhere near affordable(48V 1000W l8Ah still costs lots last I saw).

The Chevy Volt is not even an electric car.

It differs from a hybrid only in that its gas engine does not power the driveline it only recharges the battery. YET, it still can't operate for any meaningful distance without burning petrol.

How this car qualifies for a $7500 electric-car subsidy is beyond me.

Wait! Who owns GM? That would be the US government. Now it all makes sense.

Dear Kersh:

Do you mean to tell me that the Tesla Roadster, with its 245-mile range and a 0-60 time of 3.7 seconds, does not represent just a wee bit of an advance over the pioneering efforts of Mssrs. Ford and Edison?

at a base price of 108K it should whore. very affordable, daily driver-- great example

The Tesla Roadster is a small 2-seat sports car which has comparable practicality to the Lotus Elise which is to say it has no practicality whatsoever.

A full charge can take as little as 45 minutes, but only with a commercial-grade electrical connection.

www.leftlanenews.com

Wow! ONLY 45 minutes to recharge and that's ONLY with a commercial-grade electrical connection. That's real convenient.

OK, so it accelerates to 60 in 4 seconds with a FULL CHARGE. Watch what happens to that impressive acceleration under 1/4 charge.

A range of 245 miles? Yeah, under optimal conditions. In real-life driving the range of electrics is always less, just ask any Nissan Leaf owner.

245 miles range for a 2nd car with specialized purpose of daily short-commute F's over the honesty of the Capabilities Analysis would support.

If I travel to a nearby city that's 100miles away its not my daily commute and I can either take a different car or make adaptations when I'm only buying something to commute with. The Capabilities needed for that are simply a battery operated home charged car. Possibly a 20HP gas charger to attach externally would be cool for SOME customers - others would want to SHED THE COST - rather than inflating GOVERNMENT motors.

#54 | Posted by reitze

Guess you won't be buying a GM vehicle any time soon. So which commie car maker do you buy from?

Tesla Roadster

#49 | Posted by MaryTylerWhore

Though a superb vehicle, as the Roadster moniker implies, it is a toy.

At 100k plus per copy, it is not real world. Far beyond the reach of the average consumer.

Guess you won't be buying a GM vehicle any time soon. So which commie car maker do you buy from?
#55 | Posted by ZOT at 2011-11-16 11:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

I've never been able to afford a new car. I did buy an old Audi recently and also a Saturn (GM). Sadly the Saturn is a great example of POS - though the mpg is nice.

BTW, here's a graph of Miles Per Driver I was pointing out. Most people don't need that range for a 2nd car, especially when its just the hi-mpg commute $ saver:
cleanfuture.us.../A-new- segmentation-for-electric- vehicles-part-2-Driving- Mission-is-Short-and-Local- Daily-Accrued-Miles-per- driver-CleanFuture1.jpg

#57 | Posted by reitze

What year/make Saturn? This is important because the once touted All-American Saturn generally morphed into selling rebadged German Opels.

I agree Danni, oil and gas pays for public schools in NM.

#47 | Posted by kersh at 2011-11-15 05:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Schools in this godforsaken shtihole of a state are the worst.

#58, The saturn is a 97 SC1, the Audi a 96 A6 Quatro Avant. The saturn sips gas for fair-weather days. Fogs up and the heating sys blows some air... you hear every bit of road-noise, etc. The Audi geths 1/2 the gas milage (20 vs 40), cost me 2x, but drives as smoth and nice as anything Ive ever driven. Still a few more bugs to fix. It has all wheel drive too - plus my wife feels safe in in on snowy days. She crashed 1 saturn in a snow-storm.

So basically, the Audi is the "primary" commuting vehicle while the saturn is the fair-weather cost-cutter that pays for itself to exist via gas milage only. Oh and not getting stuck paying someone else to fix a car if something goes wrong in one. If the volt were more like a street legal EV golf cart it would suit 90% what that car is used for which seems to be about 80% of the days... if it were affordable as a 1997 Saturn for $1600.

"Though a superb vehicle, as the Roadster moniker implies, it is a toy."

Then I'm sure you'll be interested to hear of the new Tesla family sedan, the Model S. About $57,400 list, a little over $49K after Federal and state incentives. 160-mile range (twice the Leaf's) with the standard battery; optional batteries can increase that to 300 miles, albeit at a $20K surcharge.

My point here is not that electric cars are fully competitive with gasoline cars at this point, because they are not - not on range, not on price and not on proven track record. But they have come a God-damned long way, and there is more coming. The McCormick School of Engineering and Applied Science at Northwestern U. has just announced a breakthrough that improves the capacity and charging rate of lithium-ion batteries by a factor of ten:

www.dailymail.co.uk

The new graphene technology is to be introduced in smartphone batteries, with other lithium-ion applications - from laptops to cars - to follow.

Things are changing faster than some of you here would like to admit. Only a few years ago, the Honda Insight - the first hybrid sold here - was a weirdmobile. Now the Toyota Prius is downright mainstream, and into its third engineering generation. Hell, you can buy a hybrid pickup truck from both Ford and Chevy (mercifully, Chrysler canceled its hybrid Ram Hemi, to the undoubted relief of the long-suffering dealers who would have had to stand behind Chrysler's idea of the electronics required).

It's a new world. We aren't where we need to be, but we're on our way. Feels good to me.

MTH, the LiOn fires are like the funds getting redirected to the fuel-cell research as compared to ready available technology of today. It works. And as you point out LiOn is becoming cost effective thanks to cell phones and such. But from wheel-chairs through golf carts, Lead Acid batteries work fine. In fact I wrote a couple articles about using powerpacks (reitze) to brake the range-limit. In Powerpacks, the sequel(reitze) I did a trade study that shows Lead Acid is no slouch.

Funny, like we used to be able to make our own rockets in the USA, we also once made lead-acid electric vehicles. Too bad we just didn't know how to charge them like we do now.

Consider a dozen car-batteries would carry you most anywhere for $1000 in parts costs, but weigh 500lbs. Or you could spend $10K on LiOn to get the same power in less than 100lbs, or you could spend $50K on 500lbs worth of liOn to get a tesla like performence oooooh.... so f'ing what in the concept of the capabilities ananlysis.

Most people drive 20 miles/day and a plug-in would be nice to have if it saved money. Let it be build for under $2000 per car, or more for luxury models and generator additions.

2 points for the headline.

The Schools in this godforsaken shtihole of a state are the worst.

#59 | Posted by COMMONSENSE at 2011-11-16 12:58 PM | Reply

then commonsense would tell you its the Teachers not the source of revenue.

Reitze, at 2K per, I would look into a EV to use as a daily commute. Right now they are too expensive, 1000's more than the gas model, you save a little at the pump but you pay at the sticker so you arent any better off.

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