Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, September 27, 2011

Lawrence O'Donnell devoted a segment of his MSNBC show to unprovoked police brutality against Occupy Wall Street protesters last weekend. "You won't find anyone doing anything that is legal grounds for arrest," O'Donnell said of the protesters. "Every day in America police cross the line and abuse citizens. ... Every day in America police get away with that."

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At some point a physical response to the PIGs would be seen by a jury as self defense. Just watching that shit its totally amazing anyone there can watch that right in front of them without taking physical action. I feel the response in my fist just watching. Grab the white-shirt by the throat and slam to the ground splitting his head open? How can anyone blame a guy for feeling that response to the assault on his wife? NFW would a jury convict. The "protesters" are absolutely amazing for resisting that rage that many of us feel watching from home. Here's the live feed:
http://www.livestream.com/
globalrevolution
and a song to help us get over the rage:
Bulls On Parade (RATM) - they're there too! #OccupyWallStreet

"With a pocket full of shells".

#1 missed the link for the live feed, here it is:
www.livestream.com/ globalrevolution

At some point a physical response to the PIGs would be seen by a jury as self defense.

#1 | POSTED BY REITZE AT 2011-09-27 03:24 AM

"PIG's".... what are you 12 y/o?

DORK

only a dicksucker like lawrence odonnel could say these things.

anyone who believes what he says is a complete obama dufas.

AFK... if you actually watch the video you can tell the cops were out of control. They had these people "roped" in by the baracades. The spot were the cop pepper sprays a bunch of women that are just standing there is the best example of this. The cops are the ones that turned this into a fiasco. No one was assaulting the cops. They have the right to protest. Cops were pulling them out of the barracades one by one and beating them into the ground.

That all being said... yes... there are always assholes that show up and egg the cops on... but that doesn't mean you get to pepper spray a bunch of women standing there talking/chanting.

This bullshit goes on too often and nothing will happen. Honestly, the people should stop standing there and letting the cops do it. They should have pushed out of the baracades and moved to another location... but still... everytime this shit happens gets worse. Eventually it'll bubble over.

I watched more than one report. civil disobediance sometimes becomes, sadly, more agressive than anyone wants. My beef is this whiney ass little liberal punk named odonnel..

keep poking the bear, and he will eventually get tired of your shit.

well okay..not the EXACT quote but close enough.

DONT GET Me wrong..much of what's on this clip is way over the line, and uncalled for...cant deny that...but Im always skeptical of any clip from this fuck or this network....
my question is where they told to disperse and even though they have a right to protest, if they were oh say..blocking commerce or business or the like, then I have less sympathy. I bet there is more to come on this.

I can see your point about the network... if only it was a credible news organization .... wait... do those still exist? >

dont know but its sad that it had to get to this point. but IF they were blocking people from doing business or whatever or something like that and they were told to move, then I have much less symphathy....

one report I saw showed a girl who looked like she was trying to recreate the kent state photo....

The police told them to disperse and they did not. The police began using non-lethal means (pepper spray) to disperse the crowd. The alternative would have been to use some more lethal means. The protester's right to protest ends when they start infringing on the rights and freedoms of others.

But let's face it. This protest is about publicity and trying to deflect attention away from the failed policy of the current regime and blame the Wall Street Bankers for conducting business according to the laws at the time and for taking the bailout money when it was offered.

#10 | Posted by bogey1355

What a fucking retard.

Cops are like liberals they tend to overreact

my question is where they told to disperse and even though they have a right to protest, if they were oh say..blocking commerce or business or the like, then I have less sympathy. I bet there is more to come on this.

#7 | Posted by afkabl2

Hope the day never come where you feel the need to take a stand against injustice. Of-course they were told to disperse..."even though they have the right to protest." Its amazing to me an American would say this. God forbid they get in the way of someone trying to do alittle inside trading.
Why do these people have to go to jail/get beaten to bring attention to where your tax money is going? The worst kind of an American is the lazy indifferent apathetic and uninformed American. Those qualities are seeping threw your posts here. Those qualities are borderline treasonous. Welcome to wall street America a shining example of a police state.

Now respond with insults instead of insight.

Sadly the corporate media chose not to report this protest at all - at least until cops rioted, as they have so often since Chicago 1968. This protest hits the corporocracy where it lives, Wall Street. It would be like Tearrorists pissing on the Lincoln Memorial. Surely the corporate board rooms ordered the cops/PIGs/guardians of our freedoms not to be too gentle in dealing with this challenge to their very being. herm

What would the babbler ever have to protest except perhaps when p.Rick@stupidtexasgovernors.co
m
eats too many habanero burritos. (Must really suck to inhabit the colon of a gay draft dodger with a taste for Mexican food).

After eight days of protest, over a hundred people have already been arrested. Several have been roughed up, with cops being caught on still and video cameras pepper spraying or yanking the hair of young women, or slamming people to the ground. Sadly, these cops are fighting against their own interest. Bankrupted by Wall Street, cities all over America are laying off policemen left and right. Why defend the crooks of Wall Street, cops, when they have directly caused many of your colleagues to be thrown onto the streets? When you yourself may end up on a park bench in the near future?

The conflict between cops and protesters can be partly attributed to a clash of styles, to the eternal jocks vs. freaks dichotomy, but dear policemen, these young people are actually on your side. In spite of their colorful or eccentric clothing, odd haircuts, tattoos or piercings, they are fighting for you, too. To their credit, the protesters have made overtures to these cops by offering them coffee and water, but the cops, keen to maintain separation, have declined.

With these Wall Street skirmishes, and many more battles to come, one has to hope for that solidarity and fraternization. Wall Street is Matt Taibbi’s great vampire squid draining blood from all of our bodies. There must be a way to keep the main points front and center at all times, so that even the most casual tourist will know what it is he is witnessing.

Linh Dinh

The cops are our friends! They are just trying to keep them Terrorists under control. Maybe they should use those .50 cal machine guns on the helicopters so they can stay in practice. Just in case they need to shoot down an airliner.

"Hope the day never come where you feel the need to take a stand against injustice."
Pluhleeze, this is just the "cool" thing to do at the moment, these 20 something trustafarians havent the slightest clue why they are there.

Of-course they were told to disperse..."even though they have the right to protest." Its amazing to me an American would say this. God forbid they get in the way of someone trying to do alittle inside trading. you can protest, you dont have the right to interfere. If you are told to disperse, I suggest you do or face the consequences. Im betting if this was a Tea party rally and people were being arrested, your faux anger wouldnt appear on the DR.

Why do these people have to go to jail/get beaten to bring attention to where your tax money is going? If you are talking about politicians, yes lets arrest them.

No One! I repeat, No One,
should allow Michael J Fox to opperate a video camera.
totally unwatchable. and those girls screaming.
yuck

Im betting if this was a Tea party rally and people were being arrested, your faux anger wouldnt appear on the DR.

Can you link me to some video of Tea Party rallies getting pepper sprayed and beaten down?

Or is yours a faux argument?

The problem with many police officers is they have such a thin skin and overreact to any questioning of authority.

Police Departments who give their officers any level of basic psychological training seem to have less lawsuits from overbearing officers walking around with a chip on their shoulder.

Psychological training should be a department requirement for any police that are assigned this type of Duty.

The protestors were in the officially designated free speech zone as can be seen in the video. There is no justification whatsoever for any police officer to commit this kind of hateful harassment on the populace.

"Psychological training should be a department requirement for any police that are assigned this type of Duty."

THIS! and diversity training, crowd control, Public Relations...etc.

When they are dealing with The People they need proper training. Get these gorillas away from the People until they are properly trained.

When they are dealing with The People they need proper training. Get these gorillas away from the People until they are properly trained.

#22 | Posted by donnerboy at 2011-09-27 05:43 PM | Reply

That's the problem donnerboy, these aren't people---they're lefties.

That's the problem donnerboy, these aren't people---they're lefties.

Sub-humans, some have called them.

"Pluhleeze, this is just the "cool" thing to do at the moment, these 20 something trustafarians havent the slightest clue why they are there."

What you say "cool thing to do at the moment", others would respond with saying "The right thing to do at this moment."

Whatever your views are I can respect them for whatever thats worth.

The way I see it, these 20 something trustifarians are the future.
and much like every previous American generation they seem to be a bit peeved to how things are being handled by their rich parents.

I am encouraged by their will to get involved, no matter how misguided some view these protesters to be.

They were met with violence. I see that as being wrong on several levels.

What we only the is the reaction by the police. We never see/hear the behaviors of the protesters. I've had a few run-ins with the law. If you don't want to get your ass kicked by a cop, do what the cop says.

If you don't want to get your ass kicked by a cop, do what the cop says.

Look everybody, it's the faux naivete of the right-wing shills. Let's explain why:
What about when there are two cops, and one tells you to stand up while the other tells you to lie down?
What happens when the cops encircle the protestors, then order them to disperse?
You get your ass kicked, that's what happens.

What we only the is the reaction by the police. We never see/hear the behaviors of the protesters

That's because you aren't looking.

JAO,

The fact is a police man has a gun. When a man with a gun tells you to do something you have a choice to make.

I have personally had a officer inform me of this fact just so I would know exactly what the score was.

It's not like these police were responding to a armed robbery. They used violent force as a means of control. I disagree with this tactic as a means to enforce the law on non-violent Americans.

Look everybody, it's the faux naivete of the right-wing shills

Does that even make sense?

Anyway, I've been to plenty of protests and had more than a preferable number of "interactions" with the police. You don't want to get pepper-sprayed? Go the fuck home. You don't want to get arrested? Get your ass out of the street. Those are facts...spin them however you want.

"You don't want to get pepper-sprayed? Go the fuck home. You don't want to get arrested? Get your ass out of the street."

I image most these protesters are prepared to get arrested. No one should get mad at an officer for doing his or her job.

Using pepper-spray in this manner is more than anyone should expect.

Go home and get off the streets is exactly the message the city is sending.

I've been to plenty of protests and had more than a preferable number of "interactions" with the police. You don't want to get pepper-sprayed? Go the fuck home.

Huh?
Why didn't you go the fuck home?
Or do you enjoy provoking the police by engaging in disruptive acts like not going the fuck home?

Using pepper-spray in this manner is more than anyone should expect.
Would you rather have them shot will rubber bullets? Or maybe bashed in the head with a nightstick? When a person is non-compliant there are considerably more dangerous methods the police can use.

NEWSFLASH:
It's not a crime to disobey an unlawful order.
(And for some of us, it is a crime to obey an unlawful order.)

"When a person is non-compliant there are considerably more dangerous methods the police can use."

Agreed, boarder line military force on American citizens.

American citizens that are equally non-compliant as they are non-violent.

This is a disproportionate response to this kind of crime.

Now THIS is protesting.

massive-student-protest-take- over-chile

These pussies in NY don't know shit

Something got f-ed up. Lets try this again:

www.reuters.com

When some guy shows up at an Obama rally with a machine gun, he is not arrested.

No one was allowed into Shrub rallies unless they were card carrying Rethuglicans.

Peaceful demonstrations against G7 and G20 authorities, conspiring to steal from the poor and give to the rich have been met with brute force throughout the US, Canada and EU. Billions spent on the security of people determined to undermine democracy and outright steal. Police went so far as to identify protest leaders and arrest them in their homes before the meeting even tookplace in Canada.

Like the machine gun toter, the police leave Tea Party protestors alone.

might makes right, jungle law

At some point a physical response to the PIGs would be seen by a jury as self defense.
#1 | POSTED BY REITZE AT 2011-09-27 03:24 AM
"PIG's".... what are you 12 y/o?
DORK

#3 | Posted by glasshouse at 2011-09-27 10:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

PIGs = Power Inflicting Government - abusive enforcement, oppressive law-making, violation of inalienable rights
--- not good cops who protect and serve us. Not elected officials who represent who voted for them. ---- but some of them who become corrupted by the power and inflict it upon innoscent people for their own gain or the gain of whoever is ordering them while denying the reality they're 1st responsibility is to the people as represented by the constitution.

One scene in the videos I saw from the live feed the protesters were discussing the benefits of having their video cameras ready... "So that good cops can be honored and PIGs can be identified. "

Good cops were nearby but then blindly followed orders to harass/coral/detain innocent people, especial those people who chanted the best slogans and thus pissed off some of them. Then they did nothing to stop the guys with the pepper spray - even though their duty is supposed to be "protect and serve". And that's supposed people not banks. But somehow the bankers, or wall street or maybe just some paranoid bureaucrat started getting into brutal behavior - suddenly they're caught up being PIGs along with the asshole who personally did that.

Even if they're just following orders and doing what they're told - they're still criminals and hiding behind badges doesn't help that. At the point when the guy with the badge assaulted people inappropriately - the other cops failed to be cops - became PIGs at that moment. Not only do and did they hurt innocent people. They've set themselves up for violent retaliation to their violence. Exactly what caused the riots to turn violent in UK. Exactly a primary cause of the Arab Spring. Abusive oppression isn't government it's just slavery that proves their point - that the banks and wallstreet have bought the politicians in congress.

Imagine if one of the good cops were nearby and actually arrested the bad cop -with force if necessary and even if he faced retribution himself from "superiors" who would rather be thugs. The people might just go home proud of their nation. Instead we're all sick Nixon-like crap we're seeing.

#OccupyWallStreet

That's the problem donnerboy, these aren't people---they're lefties.

#23 | Posted by matsop

Oh yes...I can see how that IS a problem for you.

Whoever they are...Obama has actually called for them to spring to action.

They took off their "bedroom shoes and put on their marching shoes".

And this is what they face.

Obama should step up and show his support for them and disappointment for the actions of the NYPD if he wants to keep this kind of momentum going.

Very nice segment on FOX Freedom Watch about this topic right now.

Obama should step up and show his support for them and disappointment for the actions of the NYPD if he wants to keep this kind of momentum going.
#40 | Posted by donnerboy at 2011-09-27 08:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Obama is on the side of the banks/wall-street who took over congress AND the POTUS. He directly agreed with BUSH and approved TARP - which was TREASON. It stole from the people of the USA and gave our hard earned money to a banking elete without accountability. The money's gone and the people are not staying in the cages built to emprison them with their own money.

No trucking wonder there's a protest - it just might turn into more than that.

Obama should step up and show his support for them and disappointment for the actions of the NYPD if he wants to keep this kind of momentum going.

he can't do anything that can be interpreted as attacking the NYPD regardless of what some of them have done.

That is if you really want him to get re-elected.

"Hope the day never come where you feel the need to take a stand against injustice. Of-course they were told to disperse..."even though they have the right to protest." Its amazing to me an American would say this. God forbid they get in the way of someone trying to do a little inside trading."

First of all, if that's what the protesters were attempting to do, there are better ways to go about it. Namely by notifying the SEC. One does not discourage insider trading by blocking Joe the Taxi driver from transiting through the streets of New York City. In fact, all that blocking the streets accomplishes is preventing others from going about their daily lives. How do you justify that? Apparently, forcing your opinion on others in a way which adversely affects them is "american," in your opinion?

"Why do these people have to go to jail/get beaten to bring attention to where your tax money is going?"

I have no investments, therefor I have no horse in this race. You don't have to either. Investing is a personal choice. Now granted, if you are in the 52% of income earners who pay taxes, some of these people do have your money-it was given to them by the Federal Government. But you and I both know that there is no shortage of people who are in full favor of the government taking money from party A and giving it to party B. If they want to protest that, lemme know as I will at the very least provide moral support. I'm no fan of redistribution.

The worst kind of an American is the lazy indifferent apathetic and uninformed American.

Did you ever consider the possibility that a majority of Americans, even those who aren't particularly fond of Wall Street tycoons, still prefer them to the radical leftists who smash ATM machines and break the windows out of McDonald's restaurants?

The "protestors" -- spoiled upper middle class over-educated (indoctrinated) youth -- live posh lives in This, to them, rotten "capitalist" system they try to tear apart.

They are the abusers. They are the anarchists.

With what, exactly would they replace that system with? Look to Venezuela. Look to Cuba. Look to the former Soviet Union, the Eastern Bloc.

They seek Mediocrity, equality of outcome. Misery. They know not -- in their youth -- what they do.

"Can you link me to some video of Tea Party rallies getting pepper sprayed and beaten down?"

Have there been any instances of Tea Party members going after cops or arbitrarily shutting down public thoroughfares? If so, the same ROEs should apply.

"It's not like these police were responding to a armed robbery. They used violent force as a means of control. I disagree with this tactic as a means to enforce the law on non-violent Americans."

A big part of the problem is events like this tend to get co-opted, or at least infiltrated by radical leftists who are more than willing to use violence. We saw this in Seattle, D.C., New York, and other places around the globe. From the perspective of the Police, this is what they are expecting, and when the violence kicks off, they have no way of discriminating between those who are genuinely committed to peaceful protest, and those who have the explicit intent of destroying private property. The Geneva Conventions were put in place to establish some sort of directive that would create these delineations in a time of war-there are no such laws regarding civil combatant and non-combatants.

"It's not a crime to disobey an unlawful order."

Uh, that applies to the military. Not here. If the officer establishes a reasonable justification for giving an order, the one to whom the order is being given better think long and hard about disobeying. There are times when that is prudent, to be sure, but this is certainly not one of those times.

"They seek Mediocrity, equality of outcome. Misery. They know not -- in their youth -- what they do."

Radical movements tend to share the same strain of psychopathy-they don't believe anyone can be smarter than they, and they have little empathy for any other than themselves. They claim to fight for the proletariat, but despise the hundreds of millions of middle class americans that occupy flyover country, watch NASCAR, drink Keystone, and regularly go to church. In much the same way that the Bolsheviks despised the Kulaks. Just like the Kulaks, under a leftists system of government, middle america would soon see its rights and freedoms erode, in the name of preserving a more equitable state.

Of course those intellectual elites running the show-well, socialism was never intended to apply to to the Shepherd, only the sheep.

Police Brutality at "Occupy Wall Street" Protests (DEMCAD on youtube)

Description: "[DEMCAD's] views on the police brutality used at the Occupy Wall Street Protests in New York and Anonymous releasing personal information of the cop who sprayed pepper spray in the face of defenseless female protestors.
Anonymous publishes data of alleged pepper spray cop
After 80 Arrests, Protest Enters Second Week
Occupy Wall Street Protesters Maced / Pepper Sprayed by NYPD Police
'Occupy Wall Street' Protests Turn Violent; Video Shows Police Macing Women
Occupy Wall Street Law Student Journalist Arrested for Civil Disobedience 9/24/11
Police attack protestors during Occupy Wall Sreet march near Union Square on 9/24/11

Watch Canada Give Dick Cheney a War Criminal’s Welcome.

IMHO its connected to #OccupyWallStreet since he was part of the TARP'd Bush-Obama cabal to the extent of TORTURE. He SHOULD be arrested and tried here for war crime statutes that are US law. He's a criminal and flaunts his crimes openly - which only demonstrates the USA is in deep shit.

Did you ever consider the possibility that a majority of Americans, even those who aren't particularly fond of Wall Street tycoons, still prefer them to the radical leftists who smash ATM machines and break the windows out of McDonald's restaurants?

After a careful cost-benefit analysis, I prefer the guys who smash ATM machines. They cost me a few pennies.

Please explain why you favor the guys who cost you orders of magnitude more.

Radical movements tend to share the same strain of psychopathy-they don't believe anyone can be smarter than they, and they have little empathy for any other than themselves. They claim to fight for the proletariat, but despise the hundreds of millions of middle class americans that occupy flyover country, watch NASCAR, drink Keystone, and regularly go to church. In much the same way that the Bolsheviks despised the Kulaks. Just like the Kulaks, under a leftists system of government, middle america would soon see its rights and freedoms erode, in the name of preserving a more equitable state.

As though Americans, be they in flyover states or near coastal waters, haven't seen their rights erode over the past few decades, and for authoritarian (War on Drugs, USA PATRIOT) rather than welfare reasons.

Of course those intellectual elites running the show-well, socialism was never intended to apply to to the Shepherd, only the sheep.

And capitalism benefits who exactly? Noe more than the shepherd. People are reduced to "human resources;" a phrase we now utter with a straight face, and without second thought.

You seem to be asserting that erosion of rights can't be seen as good or bad without examining the philosophical or perhaps wealth-generating potential of the political apparatus doing the erosion. As though motive makes a difference. As big a fan as I am of moral relativism, even I can tell that's bullshit.

"It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it."

But you and I both know that there is no shortage of people who are in full favor of the government taking money from party A and giving it to party B.

Can we count you among them, seeing as you're Party B in that equation?
I'm certainly fully in favor of it.
But as for you, why do you do it if you think it's wrong?
Is this just a job training program for you, so you can get a commercial pilot job and join the union?

It's hilarious to read the comments on this thread. How many of the naysayers here are "small government" repubs I wonder?

Probably a lot of them. They only get pissed when it's tea bagger's rights that are infringed.

FUCKING BRUITAL:
Unbelievable protest footage. NYPD drag girl across the street

Did you ever consider the possibility that a majority of Americans, even those who aren't particularly fond of Wall Street tycoons, still prefer them to the radical leftists who smash ATM machines and break the windows out of McDonald's restaurants?

Did you ever consider ATM smashing punks are put there by people who want to damage the credibility of the protesters?

Probably not, people with that much to lose would never go to those lengths to discredit a potentially damaging protest.

Naw its easier to just call them loons and punks.

"Please explain why you favor the guys who cost you orders of magnitude more."

Niether of them cost me anything. What the protesters do is destory private property in the support of a specific political ideology, or anti-ideology if you prefer. The Wall Street bankers didn't cost me anything either, but nor did they destroy any private property. Their affront to the taxpayer was to take money from FEDGOV after they failed to properly do their jobs. If I were an investor, yes, I'd probably be pissed, but less at bankers than at the Federal Government. After all, just look at what the Obama administration did to bond holders for the American auto companies. As a taxpayer, I don't hold the companies any more responsible for accepting handouts that I would a person on welfare. From a rational perspective, individuals will generall tend to accept those things that are freely given, be it a lunch, free healthcare, or a billion dollars. All result in an increase in one's standard of living.

"As though Americans, be they in flyover states or near coastal waters, haven't seen their rights erode over the past few decades, and for authoritarian (War on Drugs, USA PATRIOT) rather than welfare reasons."

The war on drugs is just plain stupid, for more reasons than I an have time to get into right now. The Patriot act is, well, scary, but at this juncture targeting against a demographic who are probably in need of further scrutinization. But you will have to explain to me how these in any way are an impedence to my freedoms or anyone else's. Contrats that with a system that would imposed forced egalitarianism-the operative word here being forced. Redistributive systems can not survive without either the consent of the people (primarily the producers), or a strong coersive mechanism that is able to focribly alter the behavior of those it oversees. The US lacks both of those. I would contend that it is unlikely to get the latter, leaving you in a position to justify the former.

"And capitalism benefits who exactly? Noe more than the shepherd. People are reduced to "human resources;" a phrase we now utter with a straight face, and without second thought."

I don't give a lick about capitalism. What I care about is free markets, within which capitalism will inevitably emerge. When most leftists lash out against capitalism, they are generally referring to the free market. becuase it is a free market that allows for society to allocate it;s privately held resources in whatever manner is most befitting. It is why doctors make more than ditch diggers, and why a Testarossa costs more than a Taurus. It is the free market, itself a function of a free society, theat leads to wealth inequality.

The media has not covered these demonstrations for fear they will spread across America. Americans are very angry at the way the bankers have done great harm to the USA and then were rewarded by both Bush and Obama. We are angrier than the Egyptians.

"Can we count you among them, seeing as you're Party B in that equation?
I'm certainly fully in favor of it.
But as for you, why do you do it if you think it's wrong?
Is this just a job training program for you, so you can get a commercial pilot job and join the union?"

I guess if you want to count me in party B, that's OK, but please understand that in order to recieve my money from party A, I am expected to contribute an enormous amount fo labor hours, generally around 60-70 per week. Compare that with those in party B who will be recieving benefits for no other reason than being an oxygen consuming memeber of society.

"Did you ever consider ATM smashing punks are put there by people who want to damage the credibility of the protesters?"

It was alleged to have happened in Italy in the 1970s. I forget what the program was called, but it was basically a false flag operation, where specialized groups carried out terror attacks in the name of leftist revolutionaries. The thing was, they were neo fascists, trying to discredit the communists. I'll see if I can't remember any more about that.

"Probably not, people with that much to lose would never go to those lengths to discredit a potentially damaging protest."

You might have a point, except that the motivations of the Black Bloc are well known-unless you are making the assumption that the whole organization is a right wing front. But don't tell them that, or they might smash your windows and burn your car.

Alaska,

Operation Gladio was the organization alleged to have been involved in false flag ops in Italy. Wiki it if you so choose.

"If I were an investor, yes, I'd probably be pissed, but less at bankers than at the Federal Government. After all, just look at what the Obama administration did to bond holders for the American auto companies."

Er...the Obama administration did nothing to the bond holders of the American auto industry, that industry went bankrupt. What was reprehensible was that the share holders of the big banks should have lost their investment when those banks requested federal bailouts, that's when the "grass roots" Tea Party came to their rescue, screaming "socialism" when they realized that federal bailouts of banks are always (until then) accompanied by FDIC officers entering the banks and firing all of the management and bankrupting the institution which would mean the share holders lose their investment.
That is why I refuse to consider the TEa Party as a grass roots movement of concerned citizens, it's really a bunch of idiots easily manipulated by rich thieves. Don't tell those idiots that though, they get all angry and shit when you confront them with the truth. The truth hurts.

"Er...the Obama administration did nothing to the bond holders of the American auto industry, that industry went bankrupt."

I think you need to do a little more research. If a company goes bankrupt, it is debt holders that have first claim to assets, and bond holder are by definition debt holders. So, what should have happened is that the debt holders had first dibs on assets-let's say that they held debt worth $6 billion and the company was worth $5 billion. In this case the company would have been liquidated, and bond holders would have recovered roughly 83% of what was owed to them. or they could have negotaited some other terms with the auto companies. What the O administration did was force them to accept something like 40% of the total value, and forego any future claims. At the same time, they protected stockholders, and in fact passed a lot of controlling interest to the UAW.

"What was reprehensible was that the share holders of the big banks should have lost their investment..."

Agreed. The government should have never intervened-in either the auto OR bank bailouts. But where I think you are wrong is in assuming that the Tea Party supported bank bailouts. I'm not sure where you are getting your information. I'm not going to claim to speak for the tea party, but any government bailout is simply further encouragement for bad behavior.

"That is why I refuse to consider the TEa Party as a grass roots movement of concerned citizens, it's really a bunch of idiots easily manipulated by rich thieves. Don't tell those idiots that though, they get all angry and shit when you confront them with the truth. The truth hurts."

And you are different? You are something more than an easily manipulated idiot? You have never hidden your support in massively empowering the government to control and regulate society as a means of achieving your own idelological endgame. It was people like you that allowed Hitler's rise to power in the 1930s. People who could not think past their own desires to control society-to shape it into something you approved of. I would ask you to imagine that those powers were granted, and then a Tea Party candidate came to power. Or at least your notion of what a tea partier is.

Just remember, your opponents always get a vote. You don't necessarily always get the last word.

It's hilarious to read the comments on this thread. How many of the naysayers here are "small government" repubs I wonder?

Probably a lot of them. They only get pissed when it's tea bagger's rights that are infringed.

#53 | Posted by jpw at 2011-09-27 11:54 PM

The bAkflab2's and AssHouses of the world only object to government when it's doing something they don't approve of, like regulating toxins in children's toys. Otherwise, the government can spend as much as it wants, do what it wants, and trample as many people as it wants and they're just fine with it.

Thanx for the info Mad, and thanx for adding to this thread.

I don't give a lick about capitalism. What I care about is free markets, within which capitalism will inevitably emerge. When most leftists lash out against capitalism, they are generally referring to the free market. becuase it is a free market that allows for society to allocate it;s privately held resources in whatever manner is most befitting. It is why doctors make more than ditch diggers, and why a Testarossa costs more than a Taurus. It is the free market, itself a function of a free society, theat leads to wealth inequality.

Alright, now we're getting somewhere.

Tell me if you agree with this guy: peterlbrandt.com

The purpose of the markets is to redistribute wealth from the many to the few

Yes, yes, I know what you are going to say ... about how the markets allow corporations to raise capital in order to expand ... yadda, yadda, yadda!

But, while this is a function of the markets, it is not the purpose. The purpose is to make a very few people very wealthy at the expense of the many. If the markets fail to fulfill this purpose, then the markets will cease to exist.

The wealth distribution takes place over very extended periods of time (decades, even generations). But, we see this concept operating over shorter time periods. Like the present, for example.


Where does this all lead? If all that matters are markets, who are you? Despite not participating in a market economy, you work hard and you do something important, no?

Free markets are a good environment for capitalism to flourish, but there's more to the picture. Upon gaining a foothold, a capitalist builds walls around their business, and seeks to to achieve ownership of the market itself. At which point the market is no longer free. There must be an entity which knocks down those walls, or keeps them from being built in the first place. That is government's role. But that's not their only role. Sometimes, the government and capitalists both want a non-free market.

"it is a free market that allows for society to allocate it;s privately held resources in whatever manner is most befitting."

Benefiting society, or for holders of private resources?

There's a saying, well there was, "What's good for General Motors is good for America." But that's not always so. Liquidating rail-based infrastructure wasn't good for America. It was, however, great for GM. The auto bailout, I'd argue, was good for both GM and America, but bad for the market. Rumsfeld said the collapse of Enron showed the genius of capitalism, and maybe he was right, but the outcome for the average Californian utility customer or Enron employee was a bad one.

The free market is a concept; a goal perhaps, but certainly not an achievable thing. And some things are far too important to be left to the irrationality and viciousness of an apparatus whose purpose is to redistribute wealth from the many to the few -- we can only withstand so many Enrons and WorldComs. The protection of our economic interests under the guise of "national defense" is too important to be left to the market. Some people wonder why we spend billions in the Middle East. It's to regulate the energy market; to ensure we have continued access to those resources, to keep someone from stealing our seat at the table of that most important and very non-free market. And so long as the cards are in our favor, there is no reason to bring freedom to that market. We stack the deck by making two-bit dictators an offer they can't refuse, and making an example of those who do refuse. Why would we ever allow something that important to respond to "natural" market forces? It makes as much sense as blowing all the levees on the Mississippi River.

Obligatory New York Cop Thread Joke:

How many New York Cops does it take to throw a suspect down a staircase?

None; he fell.

Being a native New Yorker, I can tell you that the NYPD is made up of white trash from Staten Island, Bronx, Brooklyn, and Queens. Tattoos from head to toe, and juiced out of their minds. They are just as bad as the criminals they try to apprehend. And don't let anyone tell you that there are "some good cops" because they're all programmed to intimidate and abuse their authority. Biggest scumbags in the state of NY imo.

LOL Hi Kanrei.

I was thinking we might start making money selling our tinfoil hats now that the cops are using Microwave Weapons for Crowd Control. . Bad enough they burn your skin - but with our designs protesters can avoid getting their brains fried like ours ;}

Here's a couple more examples:
Active Denial Microwave Weapons
HEAT-RAY CROWD-BUSTER

We'll need to include the foam earplugs into the foil too. They've already used the Long Range Acoustic Device (LRAD)at the G20 in Pittsburgh.
.

#60.....how stupid can you get??? You have no idea what happened to the bondholders. Take your head out of your ass. Tell us why bho placed the Uaw ahead of bondholde. rs. You are a clueless disengenuos hack

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