Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, March 14, 2011

The lying Iraqi defector the Bush administration used to build a case to invade Iraq appeared on 60 Minutes Sunday. "Tonight we're going to introduce you to the man," says reporter Bob Simon, "and ask you to ponder how anyone could ever have believed one word he said."

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The Right have chosen to forget or ignore the fact we were lied into a multi-trillion dollar war that cost hundreds of thousands of lives and increased the threat of terrorism while they Bush administration ignored Afghanistan.

And to address the righties always bringing up Kerry and Clinton voting for the war authorization - which was touted as a hammer to hold over Saddam's head and to be fought as a last resort - they were never told about the doubts surrounding Curveball's assertions, which the Germans doubted. He was never interviewed by our own intelligence services but Bush and Cheney used him as an excuse to invade Iraq - a war first mentioned in February 2001 at the first two NSC meetings long before 9/11.

Curveball was just the man they were looking for. Sadly and cynically his trumped up story was just what the Bush administration wanted to hear.

So, anyone wonder why the Germans weren't on board with troops and $'s?

There ya go.

"CIA analysts also found Curve Ball credible because he named names. He said that while he was working at Djerf al Nadaf, Dr. Basil al-Sa'ati, a noted Iraqi scientist, was the senior official in charge of the secret biological weapons program.

American intelligence agents found Dr. Basil outside of Iraq and confronted him about the biological program.

"They were asking me what was the program, and how far did, did we go," Dr. al-Sa'ati recalled.

"They told you they believed that you were in charge of the program?" Simon asked.

"That I was in charge. I should tell them what was the program. Which I said, there was nothing like such a program. I had the feeling that they thought I was lying. So to encourage me to tell the truth, is to give me some money," Dr. Basil said.

He told Simon he was offered $50,000 by the U.S. "It was to encourage me to say what they thought it was the truth," he said.

Dr. Basil wouldn't take the money. "

At least one honest man involved in that farce

""We didn't know any of that stuff, beginning with we had never met with him, and didn't even know his name or what he did," Tyler Drumheller, the CIA's European Division chief at the time, recalled.

Drumheller says when doubts were raised inside the agency over Curve Ball, the skeptics were shouted down. "There were meetings that were so angry and so violent. You know, people cursing at each other, and yelling, 'How dare you question us?'" he told Simon.

Curve Ball had already provided what the Bush administration needed to beat the war drums against Saddam Hussein.

"He offered the best rationale for the course of action that the White House elected to take. The fundamental argument on weapons of mass destruction did pivot on this guy, Curve Ball," Duelfer said.

To make that argument before the world, President Bush selected the most trusted man in his administration, Secretary of State Colin Powell.

"Could Secretary Powell have given his speech to the United Nations that he did give if there hadn't been a Curve Ball?" Simon asked.

"I don't think so," Drumheller said. "There would have been nothing else to talk about, except things that had been talked about a million times before."

"But there's still one maddening mystery: how did this low-level chemical engineer come up with such a detailed story? Did someone put him up to it?

"Did you make it up yourself?" Simon asked.

"Yes," Alwan said.

Curve Ball then hinted that someone may have helped him, but exactly who? He just wouldn't give us a straight answer."

Let's see ... the U.S. offers another scientist $50,000 to make up a story.

Hmm. Who could it be? (HINT: 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.)

Wouldn't paying somebody to lie be treason?

The silence from the right wingnuts on this issue is deafening.

The silence from the right wingnuts on this issue is deafening.

#6 | Posted by truthhurts at 2011-03-14 06:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

Very true. But maybe some right non-wingnuts will weigh in.

It might also be that AU has used up all the posting space with the first 5 posts.

OH PLEASE, LET ME ASSIGN BLAME

#1 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2011-03-14 12:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

I CAN BLAME. REALLY. PICK ME! REALLY REALY REALLY I CAN DO IT!

#2 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2011-03-14 12:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

OH! OH! OH!

GIVING BLAME!

ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!!! OH PLEASE PICK ME!

I LOVE BLAME!!!!!

#3 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2011-03-14 12:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

Teacher! TEACHER!!!!! LET ME BLAME SOMEONE!!!!!

#4 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2011-03-14 12:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

BLAME? YOU JUST SAID MY MIDDLE NAME!

#5 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2011-03-14 12:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

BUSH'S FAULT!!!!!!!!

--AU

AU has serious issues with his mother

#1 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2011-03-14 12:05 AM | Reply | Flag:
#2 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2011-03-14 12:12 AM | Reply | Flag:
#3 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2011-03-14 12:33 AM | Reply | Flag:
#4 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2011-03-14 12:34 AM | Reply | Flag:
#5 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2011-03-14 12:37 AM | Reply | Flag:
#9 | Posted by vernon | Flag: LONELY

AU
#10 | Posted by vernon | Flag: DRUNK

AU
#11 | Posted by vernon | Flag: GETTING WOOD

#9 | Posted by vernon

Vern, that's an awful lot of text to simply dodge the issue.

Wouldn't paying somebody to lie be treason?

The silence from the right wingnuts on this issue is deafening.

#6 | Posted by truthhurts

So... just exactly what did the Bush administration gain by the invasion of Iraq? What has little berry's administration gained by keeping the troops in Iraq and the surge in Afaganstan?

Lay it on me ace.

Remember the right complaining about 'info' [read: LIES] being side-tracked by career CIA officers who had doubts? How they demanded that that crap be 'stove-piped' right to the war-mongers who it turned out knew it was false and were willing to pay others for more lies?

BUSH

LIED

PEOPLE

DIED

qed

But since none of this will ever be on Faux, they'll say it ain't so.

^ why dont you ask halliburton or boeing what they gained from iraq?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$

better yet, why don't you ask our bosses in israel?

Ok, he lied. Many others did. The war went forward.

Since this NEW INFORMATION has now been provided, can we leave Iraq and Afghanistan now?

When was the last time someone asked the current white house - where's Bin Laden?
Are we still after him?

Here's a future headline:

Climate Scientists: Why We Lied About Global Warming

You see, if your reason is good enough it's not really lying.

"while they Bush administration ignored Afghanistan"

They didn't ignore Afghanistan completely. They half-assed it. Half assing a war is far worse than not participating.

Inexplicably, they half-assed the planning on Iraq too. You'd think that if you're going to lie our young people into a war you would at least put alot of effort into the planning but not the Bushies.

"So... just exactly what did the Bush administration gain by the invasion of Iraq?"

Halliburton and other companies where they have strong connections with made money by war profiteering.

Lil Bush got to think he fixed Daddy's mistake of allowing Saddam to live.

And that billion in cash that went missing was probably divied up among the whole scumbag crew.

A better question: Why would anyone who doesn't hate this country feel any need whatsoever to defend Bush on this?

Maybe speaksoftly would care to speak a little louder and list one thing that Israel gained from the Iraq war, and point to one indication that Israel was encouraging the US to invade Iraq.

Lil Bush got to think he fixed Daddy's mistake of allowing Saddam to live.

And that billion in cash that went missing was probably divied up among the whole scumbag crew.

#20 | Posted by Sully

You forgot the other half of the question sul. Why are we still there? Is it still "Bush/Haliburton got big bucks"?

Here's a future headline:
Climate Scientists: Why We Lied About Global Warming
You see, if your reason is good enough it's not really lying.

#18 | POSTED BY BOMBASTIC AT 2011-03-14 12:25 PM | REPLY | FLAG: ANOTHER RIGHTWINGNUTCASE GIVING A PSYCHIC DEFLECTION

Why don't you dumbfucks get it that you stink at predicting anything... what others think... what they are planning on doing... what the future holds

Curveball lied then- he is still lying - Noone knows the truth.
But then our CIC herr klintoon lied about an hummer in his own home while his wife and daughter were watching TV.

~lyin sakashit

"Listen up heah, Ah did nawt hayuv sex wid that theyah wooman"

"You forgot the other half of the question sul."

I didn't forget. Deflecting onto Obama's inexplicable continuation of the war doesn't absolve Bush of anything. And you should be smart enough to know that. You're just trying to change the subject rather than face that fact that continue to support a complete traitor like Bush.

"Why are we still there? Is it still "Bush/Haliburton got big bucks"?"

Could be because some people feel we owe Iraqis something now. Could be because Obama doesn't want people to say he "surrendered".

Who knows? Has no reflection on Bush's betrayal no matter what the answer is.

So... just exactly what did the Bush administration gain by the invasion of Iraq?

Nothing. The real question is what did they think they would gain and for that answer you just need to read PNAC.

The short version- this was world domination through taking over the oil trade via the most secular country in the Middle East with a large Oil reserve. The idea was that Iraq would take to the American way of life like a duck to water and that the other nations of the Middle East would see how great life was in Iraq and would want some for themselves.

We get it. Bush lied, or at the very least strained for any reason to go to war in Iraq. He was a very bad president.

He's also not the president anymore. And I'm curious as to why our current leader's feet are not being held to the fire on the issue of why we have any troops in Iraq or Afghanistan right now. Particularly Iraq, since people like Unitard like to point out how the whole thing was based on lies in the first place.

And I'm curious as to why our current leader's feet are not being held to the fire on the issue of why we have any troops in Iraq or Afghanistan right now.

So am I. The more it is exposed how wrong Bush was for putting us there, the more wrong Obama is for keeping us there.

Kerry asked in 2004 "How do you ask someone to die for a mistake?"

The question in 2011 is "How many more are you going to kill for a mistake?"

"Listen up heah, Ah did nawt hayuv sex wid that theyah wooman"

you prayed in church and did the happy dance while Bush-hole's lies screwed the entire nation out of trillions of dollars and murdered and maimed millions with his lies... your values suck more than Monica.

So... just exactly what did the Bush administration gain by the invasion of Iraq?
Nothing. The real question is what did they think they would gain and for that answer you just need to read PNAC.

not true... he gained a pistol... to frame... and give to his "Poppy" for the mantle.

Before Poppy bombed Iraq into the middle ages the secular Iraqi citizens had the highest standard of living in the ME...Bush-hole the elder fixed that... after the Kuwaities hired a public relations firm to inspire the US to go to war against Iraq and redraw the borders so they could get some of Iraqs oil fields.

"He's also not the president anymore."

So he should get away with lying us into a war? He mind as well have machine gunned thousands of American GIs himself.

"Don't talk about it anymore, I'm still more sympathetic towards him than the new guy."

What a bad arguement.

So he should get away with lying us into a war?

No. I just said, he is a very bad person. If there is anything that can be done about it, I welcome and support that.

In the meantime, we are still fighting the now clearly illegitimate war. That is a point to be made and is not a deflection.

No matter what prompted the war the world is a much better place without Saddam. Nice post Rightistrite, glad to have you back from the protests in Wis. Where you and your unemployed Buds off to next? Ohio?

We get it. Bush lied, or at the very least strained for any reason to go to war in Iraq. He was a very bad president.
He's also not the president anymore. And I'm curious as to why our current leader's feet are not being held to the fire on the issue of why we have any troops in Iraq or Afghanistan right now. Particularly Iraq, since people like Unitard like to point out how the whole thing was based on lies in the first place.

It takes longer to get out of a war... without declaring defeat... like we did in Vietnam and had to evacuate while the Vietcong took their nation's victory... than it does to extract ourselves like we did with WW2 where we still have a military presence in Europe and Japan... or declare a draw like Korea where we still have a military presence.

Not to mention all the military the hardware we send to nations that we leave behind when we lose... think land mines in Vietnam...which we feel no remorse for leaving behind because we were defeated.

Finding resolution in Afghanistan is going to be hard. Bush-hole should have gotten out of there when he said he was no longer worried about bin Laden in March 2002... he could have had some modicum of honor but the republiclowns had to be all cowboy and force the world into democracy with the false illusion that democracy is a panacea for all the world ills.

Hitler was elected with an American inserted democracy after we "declared victory" WW1

When I hear republiclowns blather on about Obama still being there they are being fucking shortsighted hypocrites.

No matter what prompted the war the world is a much better place without Saddam. Nice post Rightistrite, glad to have you back from the protests in Wis. Where you and your unemployed Buds off to next? Ohio?

Fuck you FISHDICK... Bush-hole killed more Iraqi people than Saddam in less time and turned the nation into a theocracy you hypocritical asswipe..... but go ahead and comfort yourself with fairy tales while Iraq buddies up to Iran... YOU WANTED TO ELECT MCCLOWN.

you're missing the point. BUSH WANTED TO INVADE IRAQ FROM DAY ONE. the BushCo. didn't care what the excuse was or what it would be. it just happened to be this.

Curve Ball then hinted that someone may have helped him, but exactly who? He just wouldn't give us a straight answer."

Ask the Iranian ayatollahs to show you the cancelled checks. Chalabi (McCain and the Republican's version of George Washington)works for them, the "Iraqi national Congress" work for them, al Sistani works for them, and like his idol Saint Reagan, Dubya worked for them. At least Traitor Reagan got paid.

Snippy-Who owns a major chunk of halliburton stock and refused to do waht every other VP did-put a wall between himself and what his broker was doing. Bush was suckered by Chalabi into believing the WH would be able to auction off the Iraqi oil rights to a "select" group of oil companies. When he tried it, al sistani told him "no", so even that little bit of lotoing and pillaging got stopped.
###
No matter what prompted the war the world is a much better place without Saddam.

Really? You think Iraq being a puppet state of Iran is better? Saudistan admits it preferred keeping Saddam in place and spent big bucks supporting the America-killing Iraqi jihadists to try and keep thr shia in line after Mission Accomplished. Nobody in the ME would agree with you. And we can agree the world is a better place without Mubarak. How much did that cost the US in blood and treasure?

Yeah, the world is much safer now with Iraq in it's current condition. Fucking hilarious! There is no hope for this country. Just have to get rich off over inflated medical bills and let the retards engineer their own doom. So be it.

For those rightwingretards who think Sadam was such a threat to his neighbors in 2003, that 4000 plus KIA and thousands of permanently damaged American were worth the price, consider this:

"The Bahrain Defense Force confirmed the arrival of military units from a special Gulf Cooperation Council security force. The Council is a regional economic and military alliance comprised of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Oman.

The force included about 1,000 Saudi soldiers, a Saudi official source told Reuters news service.
"I couldn't say whether it was requested or not," she said, "but the decision came out after a GCC foreign ministers' meeting" on Sunday.

"It's like a declaration of war on the people who are engaged in a peaceful protest demanding basic rights," said Jassim Hussain, a spokesman for Al-Wefaq, the main political opposition party. "They are viewed as occupation forces."

www.washingtonpost.com

Saddam's neighbors sent exactly ZERO troops to support Bush in 2003. (In fact the only fighters saudistan sent worked for the jihadists).Yet they gladly send thousands in to bahrain to protect their fellow dictator. If you supported Bush's invasion and don't believe you got played, I've got some nuclear plants in Japan I'm selling off and can let you have for yen on the dollar.

"No. I just said, he is a very bad person. If there is anything that can be done about it, I welcome and support that."

Well nothing would be done unless the public demands it and we seem not to care about being lied into a war.......

"In the meantime, we are still fighting the now clearly illegitimate war. That is a point to be made and is not a deflection."

Once we invaded, many people felt we became obligated to make Iraq a steady democracy before we leave. I personally don't buy into that. If I hear about the "Potter Barn Rule" one more time I might puke. Iraq isn't $40 end table......

When I hear republiclowns blather on about Obama still being there they are being fucking shortsighted hypocrites.

#33 | Posted by RightisTrite

OK, you win. Bush = BADDDDDDDDDDD and little berry is the savior we all knew was cuming.

"Once we invaded, many people felt we became obligated to make Iraq a steady democracy before we leave. I personally don't buy into that. If I hear about the "Potter Barn Rule" one more time I might puke. Iraq isn't $40 end table......"

If we don't improve it then every single life lost was a complete waste. After the WMD thing proved to be horseshit the next stated goal was to improve the place, at least. What funny fuckin bullshit.

This is worth reposting:

"CIA analysts also found Curve Ball credible because he named names. He said that while he was working at Djerf al Nadaf, Dr. Basil al-Sa'ati, a noted Iraqi scientist, was the senior official in charge of the secret biological weapons program.

American intelligence agents found Dr. Basil outside of Iraq and confronted him about the biological program.

"They were asking me what was the program, and how far did, did we go," Dr. al-Sa'ati recalled.

"They told you they believed that you were in charge of the program?" Simon asked.

"That I was in charge. I should tell them what was the program. Which I said, there was nothing like such a program. I had the feeling that they thought I was lying. So to encourage me to tell the truth, is to give me some money," Dr. Basil said.

He told Simon he was offered $50,000 by the U.S. "It was to encourage me to say what they thought it was the truth," he said.

Dr. Basil wouldn't take the money. "


So, the U.S. offered $50,000 to Dr. al-Sa'ati to lie so Curveball's story would be made credible. No one could say BushCo didn't want this war no matter what. They were even willing to pay the Dr. to lie so they could have it.

It's also worth repeating the Germans doubted Curveball's story and no one from U.S. intelligence ever interviewed him, but we fought the war based on his dubious fabrications anyway and no one in Congress was ever told there were grave doubts about Curveball Germany or within our own intelligence services.

And ya, VERNON, I posted sections of the story you could have read by clicking the link, but didn't in your rush to be a trolling jerk.

Clowns forget about Somalia awfully fuckin quick.

If we don't improve it then every single life lost was a complete waste.

IMHO, they are already dead. Killing more people simply to give those who already died's deaths meaning is beyond insulting to the dead and the dying.

For the republiclowns to say continue saying "the world is a better place without Saddam" or " Bush-hole saved all those Iraqi lives" because Saddam is dead is just more pf their psychic hyperbole where they have absolutely no way of proving... but I am sure it brings comfort to you in your twisted world view. Bush-hole and those that supported him left more amputees and dead bodies in Iraq than Saddam did...congratulations.

too bad you can't say the world is better off with out bin Laden because your crustal ball won't let you know if bin Laden is still in the world.

"If we don't improve it then every single life lost was a complete waste."

The lives weren't a waste. Cutting them short was a waste. And that ain't gonna change.

"Clowns forget about Somalia awfully fuckin quick."

Yes! Somalia ! That epic war that contributed to bankrupting the treasury and killing our credibility in the world!

"He came up with the plan after he escaped from Iraq in the late 1990s. But curiously, instead of taking his story to a western embassy, which is what defectors usually do, he just drifted from one country to another."

So, why would Clinton draft the Iraq Liberation Act in 1998?

Here is some forgotten info well after the "Curveball" lie. Funny how all other governments in the UN came to a concensus about Saddam.

Disarming Saddam-A Chronology of Iraq and UN Weapons Inspections From 2002-2003

2003
February 5, 2003: Powell briefs the Security Council in an effort to persuade members that Iraq is subverting the inspections process. He publicly presents intelligence for the first time to support Washington's claim that Iraq is hiding weapons of mass destruction and interfering with inspections. France, China, and Russia are not persuaded and support continued inspections.

February 24, 2003: The United States, United Kingdom, and Spain co-sponsor a new Security Council resolution saying "Iraq has failed to take the final opportunity afforded to it by Resolution 1441."
The same day, Russia and France submit a memorandum stating that military force should be a "last resort" and that force should not yet be used because there is "no evidence" that Iraq possesses weapons of mass destruction. The memorandum also says, however, that "inspections…cannot continue indefinitely. Iraq must disarm." It further adds that Baghdad's cooperation, although improving, is not "yet fully satisfactory."

The memorandum proposes that the inspectors submit a program of work that lists and clearly defines specific disarmament tasks. Such a report is already required under Resolution 1284, which created UNMOVIC in 1999.

The memorandum also suggests "further measures to strengthen inspections," including increasing staff and bolstering technical capabilities. Additionally, it proposes a new timeline mandating regular reporting to the Security Council about inspectors' progress, as well as a progress report to be submitted 120 days after the program of work is adopted.

Neither measure is adopted.

March 7, 2003: UNMOVIC Executive Chairman Hans Blix tells the Security Council that Iraq's cooperation with the inspectors in providing information about past weapons activities has improved, although Baghdad has not yet complied with its disarmament obligations. UNMOVIC and IAEA inspectors had stated during briefings to the Security Council on January 27 and February 14 that Iraq was gradually increasing its cooperation with the United Nations. Yet, both deemed the cooperation insufficient.

The United States, United Kingdom, and Spain co-sponsor another resolution stating that Iraq "will have failed" to comply with Resolution 1441 unless Baghdad cooperates with its disarmament obligations by March 17. The draft resolution implies that the council members would take military action if Iraq failed to meet the deadline.

www.armscontrol.org

Rightisadouchebag, why don't any of you libtards have the balls to ask your holy Pres where Bin Laden is? Gitmo?

We should not be at war with the jihads. Let's try hugging them. They don't harbor ill will towards the West.

60 Minutes had to dig hard to find this guy I'm sure... but he said what they wanted him to say. Wonder how long it took them to find this guy... and how much they had to pay him.
When it comes to 60 Minutes... unbiased reporting it ain't.

"If we don't improve it then every single life lost was a complete waste."
The lives weren't a waste. Cutting them short was a waste. And that ain't gonna change.

#46 | POSTED BY SULLY AT 2011-03-14 03:26 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

OK, The LIVES LOST was a waste. And I agree, my point is only that after we intervened we became partially even largely responsible for the aftermath and that anyone who supported and/or supports the war is in denial if they don't concede that we will be leaving having failed in every stated goal used to justify.

"Clowns forget about Somalia awfully fuckin quick."
Yes! Somalia ! That epic war that contributed to bankrupting the treasury and killing our credibility in the world!

#47 | POSTED BY KREATOR AT 2011-03-14 03:41 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

The point is leaving before we are done and losing American and Somali lives in vein dumbass.

Rightisadouchebag, why don't any of you libtards have the balls to ask your holy Pres where Bin Laden is? Gitmo?

#49 | POSTED BY FISHPAW AT 2011-03-14 03:48 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Because everybody knows he's hunting quail in Texas with Dick Cheney.

Untouchable. lol

"IMHO, they are already dead. Killing more people simply to give those who already died's deaths meaning is beyond insulting to the dead and the dying."

Huh?

"The point is leaving before we are done and losing American and Somali lives in vein dumbass."

Done with what? Saddam is gone. They voted in a governement. They all have blue fingers. Does anyone know what the conditions are that need to be met before we leave?

SULLY- That's my point we can never leave and win because the goals were too vague. We'd have to create a utopia at this point.

Before Poppy bombed Iraq into the middle ages the secular Iraqi citizens had the highest standard of living in the ME...Bush-hole the elder fixed that... after the Kuwaities hired a public relations firm to inspire the US to go to war against Iraq and redraw the borders so they could get some of Iraqs oil fields.

#29 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2011-03-14 01:26 PM | Reply | Flag: SAVE THE ENDANGERED TREE OCTOPUS!!

BTW Trite - just what is a "Bush-hole?"

I haven't watched network news in a while. Do they still show that daily body tally?

If there is a tree octupus and it's endangered it absolutely must be saved.

People are a dime a dozen, where ever these octopussies live all the people should be wiped out to protect them. Trust me we'll never miss em.

There's something like three billion people in the world. We could do without 2 bill and there would be much more room for all the animals I like and plenty of people left to keep killing each other over nothing. No harm no foul.

There is no intention on leaving Iraq, permanent bases were set up there.

The Military Industrial Complex must be fed

"There is no intention on leaving Iraq, permanent bases were set up there.
The Military Industrial Complex must be fed"

Maybe we'll get something out of it after all, but I doubt it.

I haven't watched network news in a while. Do they still show that daily body tally?

#59 | Posted by MrFair

You have to ask? Hell, it was posted here damn near every week while Bush was president.

...*
****
.*..*

[Comrades!]

Who in the capitalist elite cared of it was all lies?

As long as they could get their wars and suck trillions out of the taxpayers, right?

And so after the USA leaves Iraq and Afghanistan, we say to the citizens of these countries, "Well have a nice day!"

And the USA citizens get stuck with a $15,000 billion bill, and the poor workers are the ones who will be toiling for decades to pay it off.

Maybe speaksoftly would care to speak a little louder and list one thing that Israel gained from the Iraq war, and point to one indication that Israel was encouraging the US to invade Iraq.

#21 | POSTED BY EKATZ

Howabout another massive permanent base in their neighborhood to protect them?

Same reason Leiberman is using the tsunami to speak out against nuclear power. Anything that keeps us stuck on oil or stuck in the mideast is a win for israel's security.

#66 good insight on Leiberman.

and the 'strategery' consequences of having bungled iraq is that the US can't be seen to be leading on the libya issue because she lacks moral credibility. fack it, i'll let dr. brenner give his perspective....
I propose that we keep in mind a few truths about who we have been as a country, where we are as a world power, and where we may reasonably wish to be down the road.

1. American idealism always has been central to our self esteem, and to our standing in the minds of other peoples, even as we have acted pragmatically (wisely or otherwise) in pursuit of our national interests. That idealism has been badly eroded at both home and abroad.....Obama's embrace of corporatism is confirmation that his entire campaign (and it's attendent expectations globally) was a charade.

2. In......a world where our relative power of coercion/persuasion is destined to diminish considerably, the intangibles of status and image grow in importance as assets to be used constructively to help shape a responsible multilateral management of world affairs.(because you can't do it alone, you're broke, befuddled and tired)

3. Our crass conduct in the Greater Middle East during the 9/11 decade has been far more costly in every respect than the Washington punditocracy (or certainly the media) know or admit. The revolutionary wave in the Arab world is a stroke of good fortune given us by the gods. It creates circumstances of historic dimensions wherein we can restore our credibility and our standing as the 'good guys.' Obama and his minions seem to have no awareness of this whatsoever.

4. The challenge is to seize that opportunity while not disregarding our valid, tangible interests that do not fully coincide with our longer term interests in being the godfather and underwriter of democracy in the region. The pivots of our strategic position have been four preoccupations: Terrorism, Iran, Israel and oil. The first three have become obsessions that defy reason and logic. A saner, more reasonable estimation of authentic interests and threats in regard to all three would markedly alter how we balance our divergent concerns and make tradeoffs between short-term and longer-term perspectives. By devaluing the multiform 'war against terrorism,' we lower our stake in Bahrain naval bases, in potentates like Yemen's Saleh, and in keeping Shi'ites at bay wherever they raise their heads.

5. The stickiest issues are raised by Saudi Arabia - because of its key role in the global oil market and because there the fall of the House of Saud could bring to power truly disagreeable people.

6. The Bahrain/Saudi link is there although I lack the expertise to estimate possible spillover effects. I do think, though, that there is no compelling reason to have Mr. Gates personally put the American imprimatur on the Bahrainian royal family, or for us to embrace whatever is left of Mr. Saleh's fragile regime.

7. This is the critical moment to fight free of the lethal Israeli embrace. Two passive acts could vastly improve our position in the region and the world: leaving Bahrain and Yemeni rulers to their own devices; lowering the temperature of our campaign against the Mullahs' regime in Iran. Two active acts complement them: calling out the Israeli government; and intervening in Libya. The last is of far greater importance than the place's nominal value...... Nearly everyone in the world outside of the U.S. knows on which side decency lies. They also are looking at the United States to redeem itself. It is not mainly a matter of means but of ends. Very few would mistake a focused, multilateral intervention to turn the military tide there (with no follow-an occupation) with our savaging of Iraq and Afghanistan. Peoples’ instincts usually are truer than we give them credit for. This is especially true when the lines are so sharply drawn and everyone's consciousness heightened.

Dr. Michael Brenner

#10 | Posted by vernon

While he was making up quotes at least he didn't bring anuses into it like so many other wingnuts seem to be fixated on.


While he was making up quotes at least he didn't bring anuses into it like so many other wingnuts seem to be fixated on.

POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY AT 2011-03-15 12:09 AM | REPLY

Why are so many righties on DR fixated on homoerotic fantasies?

POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY AT 2011-03-14 08:19 PM | REPLY

How about you get a room with one of your rightie anus fixated compadres and spare the rest of us from your homocrotica?

POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY AT 2011-03-14 12:51 AM | REPLY

TEDLY
As Ronald Reagan once famously said, "There you go again".
You're homoerotic. Not my thing, but whatever floats your boat...

POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY AT 2011-03-14 12:49 AM | REPLY

What is it with righties and their fixation on the anus and all things anal?
Several times a day some rightie chimes in with a poop shoot reference.
Creepy

POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY AT 2011-03-14 12:27 AM | REPLY


And that was just the first page of your most recent comments.

BUTTHOLE

Those were in response to homoerotic fantasies by right wingers as their form of 'retort'.

One must ask them to keep it to themselves. Wingnut anal fixations and homoerotic fantasies among asshole wingnuts here are all too frequent.

How about you do your part and suggest they get a room or something?

Haha, resorting to homophobic insults pretty much guarantees you have lost whatever argument you are in.

And no party has a monopoly on strangely-fixated-on-
homophobia posters on this site.

Our crass conduct in the Greater Middle East during the 9/11 decade has been far more costly in every respect than the Washington punditocracy (or certainly the media) know or admit. The revolutionary wave in the Arab world is a stroke of good fortune given us by the gods. It creates circumstances of historic dimensions wherein we can restore our credibility and our standing as the 'good guys.' Obama and his minions seem to have no awareness of this whatsoever.

Whenever I read this kind of tripe I recall how the republiclowns wanted McClown and his minion Palooneytunes. They loved how McClown would sing "bomb Iran"

Face it republiclowns Obama has saved your skanky asses from committing another international blunder.

Whenever I read this kind of tripe I recall how the republiclowns wanted McClown and his minion Palooneytunes. They loved how McClown would sing "bomb Iran"

Face it republiclowns Obama has saved your skanky asses from committing another international blunder.

#73 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2011-03-15 03:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

Do you ever write or speak just normally?

Why Curveball lied?

Stupid question.

Um, maybe cos he was getting paid to?

See also: Cos he wanted to see Saddam ousted and was willing to lie to achieve it.

Better question, albeit, one with an equally obvious answer.

"Why did Dumbya place so much stock in the words of an obvious liar?"

Answer: Cos he was saying what they wanted to hear. BushCo knew Curveball was a lying sack of shiat from the get-go. Anyone who thinks differently is hopelessly naive.

Best question.

Why did Curveball remain on the German intelligence payroll for five years after he had been internationally discredited?

Lotta Germans asking that one, atm.

Spud too.

Seems like a shiesse-for-brains move.

The Germans are also contemplating charging Curveball for "warmongering".

Germany calling you a warmonger?

Yeah, time fer some serious self examination when THAT happens.

Under German constitutional law, it is a criminal offence to do anything "with the intent to disturb the peaceful relations between nations, especially anything that leads to an aggressive war", said Ströbele. The maximum penalty is life imprisonment, he said, adding that he did not expect it would ever come to that.

www.guardian.co.uk

Prolly won't happen but it's interesting that the conversation is even taking place at this time.

Be Well.

I haven't watched network news in a while. Do they still show that daily body tally?

#59 | Posted by MrFair

You have to ask? Hell, it was posted here damn near every week while Bush was president.

#64 | Posted by Sniper at 2011-03-14 05:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Like I said, I haven't watched in a while. Is it no longer PC to show these numbers every night?

You have to ask? Hell, it was posted here damn near every week while Bush was president.
#64 | Posted by Sniper at 2011-03-14 05:34 PM | Reply | Flag:FORGETS THAT TOMMY FRANKS DECLARED THEY DIDN'T DO BODY COUNTS DURING THE BUSH YEARS

and quite frankly (no pun intended) no one on the republiclown side of the fence gave a rats ass... ergo it was out of a sense of duty to put in their stupid faces what they wanted the troops to accomplish when they went to church every Sunday to pray for their success... rather for the Christian God to beat up the Muslim God by their trusted and heavily armed servants on earth .

I know I know... you just flat out don't understand how come Obama after 20 months in office can't get us untangled from something that took Bush-hole 7 years to do... it boggles your teeney weeney teabagging minds.

Like I said here more than once before it is the republiclowns that have the messaih issues about Obama and not anyone else.

Their answer was to put Goofus and Doofus on their ticket... and start bombing Iran... they wanted more of this good good thang.

If any of the repliclowns cares to drift deeper into their own hypocrisy they can get the numbers themselves... post them... go ahead... but they will have to get the more than the lions share of those numbers were what they paid for and prayed for.

Come on republiclowns... lets here it one more time for "the Gipper"... red white and blue... these colors don't run.

now if you will excuse me I have to go hide from your leading contender Sarah Paloounietunes because geee willikers... she scares the shit out of my liberal ass.

"The revolutionary wave in the Arab world is a stroke of good fortune given us by the gods. It creates circumstances of historic dimensions wherein we can restore our credibility and our standing as the 'good guys.' Obama and his minions seem to have no awareness of this whatsoever."

That pretty much sums it up. I want to support Obama but he has no stones, IMO he's a good guy but no stones. Bush was a dumb bad guy with giant stones, not sure which is worse. Wish we could get the whole package.

#77 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2011-03-15 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

Hey you forgot to mention SAVE THE ENDANGERED TREE OCTOPUS!!

Are we talking about THIS asshole?

www.youtube.com

Are we talking about THIS asshole?

www.youtube.com

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