Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Monday, January 03, 2011

Tim Kaine, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, said President Obama's top priorities include creating more jobs, cutting the deficit and earmark reform. "The No. 1 priority of the American public ... is getting the economy going again," he said. "Folks are going to be dissatisfied until they see things moving more dramatically the right way."

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I think they've created enough jobs. Time to focus on the private sector.

Mysterymeat why not hire some people to make some subs?

This is great news. We should expect a strong job recovery any minute now, then.

"Mysterymeat why not hire some people to make some subs?"

Posted by jackass at 2011-01-02 08:32 PM | Reply

He's waiting for a government tax incentive.

Row across the fucking Pacific and then we'll talk.

Damn that Fletcher Christian.
I so wanted to ...

"Every poll shows that the major concerns of the American people are federal spending, the exploding deficit, and -- above all -- jobs. Jobs, jobs, jobs: This is what the public is worried about. In a word, the big issue is: jobs. So the Obama administration, displaying the keen awareness that has become its trademark, decides to focus like a laser on: health-care reform."

www.miamiherald.com

This is great news. We should expect a strong job recovery any minute now, then.

#3 | Posted by rightisright at 2011-01-02 08:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's Recovery Winter!

Maybe y'all should wait till the State of the Union to start criticizing. Oh, never mind; that would take all your fun away--I mean, waiting for facts or direct statements of intent? Where's the fun in that?

I wonder if President Flounder will ever figure out that the Gobbler-Mint has never created a "job" since its inception aside from the tax payer subsidized parasite Gobbler-Mint positions? My guess is not.

Hopefully this new Congress can free up some of the shackles that have been placed on the private sector over the last two years and drag Obama kicking and screaming to go along with it. Maybe then this country can get rolling again?

Jobs?

You mean, focus like he did last year?

www.guardian.co.uk

We're fucked...

"Maybe then this country can get rolling again?"

american's love ignoring the fact that the manufacturing jobs are gone.

they aren't coming back anytime soon because its well, too damn expensive to hire americans...

no tax break or loan will make those jobs come back.

why pay 7 bux an hour for an american when you can get a 1 dollar an hour chinese person.

no democrat or republican yet seems to get this basic point?

how do we bring the manufacturing jobs back to the states?

get mad at obama all you want, but like i said, its not like the repubs have any ideas on how to do it either without substantially lowering the wage floor.

Um, Dirk. People have been screaming for him to "create jobs" for the entire time he's been in office. Are you now saying he shouldn't bother? : ) Oh, you want a "free market." I see. I think you need to visit an alternate dimension where such things exist.

And Happy, think politics for just a second. He took a BIG gamble on HCR. I think it was foolish, but it was his (and the party's) choice. It's what parties do when in power--concentrate on issues they find important and/or valuable. This leftie thinks it was very poorly done, but not probably for the reasons you do.

Of course, the beauty is, he can make the GOP (now in control) look really bad if he plays this job-creation idea well. And yes, that means gov't expenditures. Were I him (and thank the FSM I'm not), I'd be proposing tons of private-public partnerships. (But my idea would not be the creation of new bureacracies--the public would come in the form of already existing agencies. Create efficiencies elsewhere and free up some workers... But I'm just goin' off the cuff now.)

"how do we bring the manufacturing jobs back to the states?"

We don't. It's time to refuckinginvent the economy. I've been saying this for years now. Of course, I don't have ideas on what specifically to do (or I wouldn't work where I do : ) ), but there are large numbers of folks out there who have greater smarts than I in this realm. It seems to me we have lost the manufacturing battle. Besides, a manufacture-and-purchase economy is doomed to fuck us up eventually (see: today), never mind the waste and environmental costs. Do we REALLY need a million more trinkets and toys on the market?

"It's time to refuckinginvent the economy"

agreed... but with a country of 300 million... not even the smartest people in the world know how to do that yet.

our system should be teaching american's how to manage the foreign manufacturing workers.

not a service based economy but a management based economy.

do what we do best ... lead.

>management based economy

Seriously? Management? Where have you worked? Management does not necessarily lead - that takes great skill and eludes most managers as far
as I'm concerned. And nothing ever really gets done when management seems to believe they can do more than "manage". Who'll do the actual work?

Picture a dozen guys in a boat; one rowing, the other eleven yelling "stroke"!

That's a management based economy.

"That's a management based economy."

thats not what i'm talking about...

i'm talking about there being no manufacturing jobs in america.

who runs the foreign manufacturing teams?

well maybe thats what american's should be doing since the manufacturing jobs are gone, why not lead?

it would be 1 american telling 20 chinese people to stroke.

i just gave out a suggestion but i also said no one has a real answer to the problem

"Maybe y'all should wait till the State of the Union to start criticizing."
#8 | Posted by pragmatist

Yeah. Obama needs yet another big lie that the Democrat run media can endlessly quote until it becomes the left's truth.

That will require the application of Keynesian Economic policies, just like Nixon and Reagan did. But it is absolutely guaranteed that the Rethuglicans will fight this tooth and nail. They would rather collapse the country than help Obama. They would rather win one seat in Congress than feed, let alone educate, a single child.

They would rather collapse the country than help Obama. They would rather win one seat in Congress than feed, let alone educate, a single child.

my goodness. take a happy pill why don't you?

Oh, you want a "free market." I see. I think you need to visit an alternate dimension where such things exist.#13 | Posted by pragmatist

I know, I know, I am just insane for wanting people to be able to vote with their tax dollars each and every day in a free country. Me and the founding fathers are just such fools for striving to embrace the concept.

You however....are a genius for embracing the status quo that is killing this country and creating less jobs! Got it!

I wonder if it has anything to do with you being dependent on the Gobbler-Mint for your paycheck?

Here is a history lesson for you teach....

Two things you should note. Less government intrusion, no income tax and real wage increases.

en.wikipedia.org

Gotta go work off some of our National Debt!!!;)

#20 | Posted by nutcase at 2011-01-03 10:15 AM | Reply | Flag:
nutcase.

Currently oil rigs in the Gulf are waiting for permits to start drilling. Before that there was a drilling ban.

So there are thousands of jobs on hold due to government red tape.

No wonder this administration is labeled as anti business.

"Yeah. Obama needs yet another big lie that the Democrat run media can endlessly quote until it becomes the left's truth."

So how did you feel about Rove's, Cheney's, and Bush's mastery of the big lie? What about the softball media behavior of at least Bush's first term?

Sorry, sounds like I'm deflecting. In fact, I'm suggesting that the media is not Democrat-run and that all presidents of the modern age--or their machines--are pretty damned good at manipulating information.

+++++

No, Dirk, I don't need a history lesson, nor am I simply embracing the status quo. Great job assigning positions, though. There is no free market. Now, how do you feel about the apparent contradiction of those stating "the president should do something" while at the same time complaining when he does? Or those saying nothing a president does matters, the WH can't create jobs, while at the same time demanding that this president create jobs? Do all those folks really think as much as you do, or as much as you think you do?

As for my dependence on whatever, you do know who pays for schools, right? Hint: It's not the feds. And that has naught to do with my politics--I formed those long before I became a teacher.

And if you want me to take any sort of history lesson seriously, citing Wikipedia will get you nowhere. Generally, I won't even read the link. You could have written the damned article yourself! : )

Have a great day of work!

Isn't Biden the "Job Czar"

Well, we all see how well that has worked out.

So Glass, do you answer questions, or just post random shit to see what sorts of reactions you get?

Isn't timmie about 2 or 3 years late with that thought?

When gasoline was $2.50 for a gallon, Democrats launched investigations. Now that predictions are for $5.00 for a gallon, where are the Democrats?

The only jobs they are trying to create are those being held by illegal immigrants and the only reason they are creating those jobs for us is because you can't outsource your lawn to India for mowing.

it would be 1 american telling 20 chinese people to stroke.

#17 | Posted by klifferd at 2011-01-03 09:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

i just gave out a suggestion but i also said no one has a real answer to the problem

#18 | Posted by klifferd at 2011-01-03 09:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

Kliff:

I live in what's known as the Silicon Valley of Taiwan: Hsinchu. And what you describe is actually very common here. American engineers leading teams of Chinese engineers (making computer chips and other stuff). Americans are unique in our ability to be creative.

I live in what's known as the Silicon Valley of Taiwan: Hsinchu.

Vern is another Jeffin? I never knew he left America.

"Americans are unique in our ability to be creative."

i agree.

which is why i think we need to harness this skill and as all the work starts moving overseas... american's are in a unique position to be able to lead them... and with more leadership orientated education, we can become a "management" based society.

"Americans are unique in our ability to be creative."

Uh-oh. More American Exceptionalism. (sigh)

I don't buy it. I think our CULTURE allows for more creativity. But consider how many of our innovations have come from or with people who moved here from elsewhere. That leads to my conclusion--creative environment good for people of different cultures...

"But consider how many of our innovations have come from or with people who moved here from elsewhere"

But most of these people went to at least college here if not earlier education.

Its how we teach (at least at good schools public and private) that makes the difference.

We teach kids to figure out how to solve a problem, not memorize the answer to a problem.

We teach kids to figure out how to solve a problem, not memorize the answer to a problem.

Posted by klifferd at 2011-01-03 01:07 PM |

We used to. Now we just teach our kids enough to pass a test that will allow our schools to get funding for the following year: education be damned.

Creating jobs, cutting the deficit and earmark reform?

Well, in spite of unprecedented hiring by the federal government, jobs have been lost overall, also in spite of huge amounts of government "stimulus". Obama still believes that the government can "create" jobs, which we already knew before throwing almost a $trillion in government spending at the problem. Still, he apparently hasn't learned the simple lesson that you don't get a net gain by spending taxpayer money to "create" a job.

Deficit cutting? Obama has already earned his place presiding over the largest deficits in world history. His only plan was to suggest that his cabinet members come up with a way to save $100 million, on a budget of $3 trillion. Such a laughably small percentage that it's not even worth computing.

Earmark reform? He has already signed spending bills totaling over 10,000 earmarks, and counting. He pledged to go over every spending bill "line by line", so he's either a liar or he sure still loves them earmarks AND he's a liar.

Obama is taking a cue from Clinton in 1996, where after a similar mid-term defeat (that time, Clinton lost both the House and Senate), Clinton learned to sit back, veto what he could (favorite phrase: "it's not good enough"), and take credit for the rest. When the Republicans first started to balance the budget, Clinton claimed it was "impossible". Then, when they did it, Clinton got the credit.

Similarly, after years of his failing policies, Obama and the complicit press will be falling over themselves to give Obama credit for every positive thing that comes from a more sane Congress, while finding ways to blame Republicans for everything else.

Since last September, the stock market has placed a strong vote of confidence in the markets due no doubt to the mitigating effects of a split Congress on Obama's destructive policies. Yet, every time there's a positive statistic, Obama comes out pounding his girly chest about how his policies are finally working. It's really too bad there are so many stupid people falling for this.

"Now we just teach our kids enough to pass a test that will allow our schools to get funding for the following year"

we still do in many places
don't let the crab stream media get to you.

inner city schools are terrible and the whole pass a test crap has done much to hurt them, but the better public school systems have found ways to minimize the negative affects as much as possible.

Besides the standardized testing only affects core subjects, but the kids that want to learn, take the more advanced classes in literature, science and math.

my senior year of highschool i took physics, college biology, great books and a few other completely outside of the core classes and learned a great deal of good stuff. My younger sister is in highschool now and the same courses are still offered.

and our colleges are still considered the best in the world.

Besides the standardized testing only affects core subjects, but the kids that want to learn, take the more advanced classes in literature, science and math.


In Florida, everything is affected. Funding for art, PE, and music programs are cut to give more money to the test prep classes. The FCAT rules this state and funding is based on the FCAT scores, not student population or student needs. Combine that with the voucher program and you only see bad schools getting worse, not better.

How do we bring manufacturing back to the states? By fucking buying American made products.

I have spent mucho money the last few months on new furniture. I needed many new pieces having recently bought a much bigger house, and I decided to only buy made in America. True, for comparable quality I paid about 10-15% more than Chinese goods, but I got much more in return.

The products are far less likely to be poisoned by heavy metals, filler cheap chemicals, or cut corners, and I hopefully created or saved a job or two here in the states.

This country can produce the BEST goods, if we level the playing field as it should be.

I would allow businesses to keep 100% of the money they take in and reinvest into their business. No taxes. Income taxes on the employees, including the executives are enough. I would slap a 15% tarriff on everything coming into the states manufactured overseas. I would also treat all income the same for tax purposes including dividends.

This country needs manufacturing back, and it really isn't hard to make it return.

Some schools, or some teachers, still do the critical thinking thing. I do. All the fucking time. It's the very core of what I'm after. I want kids to THINK. Of course, we should also teach the specific state standards. Which is not to say that I agree with the testing regimen and with funding tied to results. Life is more than a series of tests. Education is not the same as knowledge.

And Kliff, if those kids were taught here in college, that still makes my point. It's not that Americans are more creative, or uniquely so; it's that our culture emphasizes creativity more than many do. It's why the Chinese (educators) are starting to look at us. They do test scores better; we do creative approach better. (Or so the story goes.)

"I would slap a 15% tarriff on everything coming into the states manufactured overseas."

And that is how this country became an economic power very early on. But it's not a free-market principle. : )

"By fucking buying American made products"

my les paul is made in the usa bitches. :)

"It's not that Americans are more creative, or uniquely so; it's that our culture emphasizes creativity more than many do"

oh no doubt.
I'm brown, i know hahah.

Americans can't be brown? : )

I'm full of brown.

I like brownies.

Downtown.

"I like brownies."

what kind of brownies?

Chocolate brownies. No nuts. (Go ahead; that's an open door.)

Congress could do something to bring manufacturing jobs back. Pass laws so that any company importing products for sale in this country must provide documentation that those products were manufactured under the same environmental and human rights / fair labor laws that products manufactured in this country are subject to. It's only fair. If we as a country believe these things are important than that should be our national policy.

We should put our money where our mouths are. If we as a country say we care about the environment than we as a country should not allow other countries to sell things here that do not protect the environment. Same with Human rights.

If we did this, manufacturing would come back to this country so fast your head would spin. I'm just sayin.

it would also be nice if americans started giving a shit and buying products made here in the usa.

it would also be nice if americans started giving a shit and buying products made here in the usa.

#48 | Posted by klifferd at 2011-01-03 04:19 PM | Reply | Flag

I agree klifferd, problem is say you like Estwing hammers and have always bought that kind. Now the company starts making them in China for 1/7 th the labor cost, do they lower the cost of the hammer proportionately? No they increase profits. Now you want an Estwing hammer, do you still buy that kind or buy another kind? Most people would still want the kind they like.

It would also be nice if corporations started giving a shit about something besides profit. There's nothing wrong with profit but plenty of companies made things in this country and still did very well thank you very much. But they get greedy and very well is not good enough anymore. It's about greed and if anybody doesn't believe that they have their head in the sand.

thank god they still make the best guitars in the usa.

And comfort is the problem. Just because you have always used brand x, doesn't mean you should in the future. I have yet to see a product made n the USA, besides the woeful automobile industry, that was not far better quality than anything I came across that was made in China. Sure, I had to pay a bit more, but I will easily recoil that investment in extended useable life. Americans need to wake up and understand in many cases you DO get a better product if you pay more.

It just makes sense.

I will have to quantify that and say I do own two Honda's now. I used to buy American until I learned the exact opposite was true. My friends that had foreign cars spent much less time in the shop, and when it was time to buy, I couldn't be USA loyal.

Damn. Should say "qualify." bah.

" do own two Honda's now"

your honda's are probably built in the usa by americans.

And ABH, your Honda may have been manufactured in the USA.

Restore the 15% tarriff which once provided most Federal Government funding.

Shut down all our military aggression. Keep the Navy and bring everyone else home. Become the name, "Department of Defense".

Rescind Corporate personhood.

Prosecute Financial Fraud. Rescind the charter of every Corporation that commits fraud.

Tax every trade on Wall Street.

Increase the tax rate on incomes over $1 million/year and all inheritance.

That sounds way too sane:

Nutcase for President???????

"get mad at obama all you want, but like i said, its not like the repubs have any ideas on how to do it either without substantially lowering the wage floor."

You are correct sir, although I would expand your statement to include all unskilled or low skilled labor positions that can physically be done outside the US. They won't come back. Even if they did, there would be no one to buy the goods they produced because they would be too expensive.

The key to success lies in the hands of the american people-they must be able to offer those goods and services that Americans are willing to pay for. I live in North Dakota, and right now those that are doing best are the unskilled and low skilled laborers working in the oil fields. In some cases, they are highly skilled laborers who have taken jobs that don't require skill because the jobs pay so well.

The american people are not yet suffering. If they were, they would be lining up to get one of these high paying jobs in ND. They are still waiting for the job they want in the area they want at the salary they want, and there is not yet the incentive to push them towards true employment.

Everyone who has ever taken an economics course knows that expansive social safety nets provide a disincentive to work. If you can get $12000 a year from the government while not working, while working 40 hours a week will provide you $14000, your true wage is $.96 per hour. What's more valuable to an individual, an hour of free time or $.96? I would contend that in most cases it would be the free time. So cut the social safety programs to the point where they will ensure minimum caloric intake, adequate clothing, and adequate shelter. But make it unpleasant. Give people an additional incentive to get off it, while at the same time limiting unnecessary spending. That's would be the first step, or maybe the second. The government also needs to find a way to encourage entrepreneurs to act upon their ideas, for they are the mechanism for which all wealth creation is ultimately responsible. Last, the people need to have faith in their government and each other. For obvious reasons, that has not been the case in recent years. I suspect that as long as the class warfare arguments are made to convince the poor that their condition is not their fault, this distrust will remain.

What's more valuable to an individual, an hour of free time or $.96? I would contend that in most cases it would be the free time. So cut the social safety programs to the point where they will ensure minimum caloric intake, adequate clothing, and adequate shelter. But make it unpleasant.

#57 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Here is an insight into the world view. People are inherently lazy and worthless. "Useless eaters" some might say. Liberals see more good in people and they tend to feel some responsibility to their fellow man (in varying degrees), kinda like that Jesus fella.

Here is an insight into the conservative world view

"not a service based economy but a management based economy."

Management is a service, and something that many Americans are uniquely good at, along with creating new goods and services. We are still way short of medical professionals in this country, yet how many of the unemployed are currently lining up to be doctors or nurses? Probably not many.

Keynesian economic policies work when they are directed towards wealth creating enterprise. For example, given set government expenditures, a government could cut taxes and finance the balance through debt, with the understanding that the reduced taxes would result in more business, which would eventually pay for itself.

Expanding social benefits to non-wealth creators does not do this. Creating jobs that produce something no one wants do not do this. What Obama should do is cut corporate taxes. That would probably have the most pronounced effect on the economy. Also, providing incentives of some sort for new businesses to start up, since those businesses will likely become the corporations of tomorrow-the tax generators.

"Uh-oh. More American Exceptionalism. (sigh)"

Dude-the markets don't lie. What percentage of consumer goods was invented in the US. One look around your house should answer the question.

"But consider how many of our innovations have come from or with people who moved here from elsewhere. That leads to my conclusion--creative environment good for people of different cultures..."

Can you provide an example? I am using a Dell Comptuer, which was invented and marketed in the US. Probably not manufactured. Connected to it is an ipod, designed in the US, marketed in the US, but probably manufactured elsewhere.

Very few blockbuster consumer goods were invented overseas. I would challenge you to prove otherwise. Or even to prove that they were invented in America by a non-American.

"How do we bring manufacturing back to the states? By fucking buying American made products."

Left to their own devices, Americans do not want american made products, at least not commoditized products. There will always be a market for highly differentiated consumer goods manufactured in the US, but who wants to pay $10 for a widget made in the US when a $5 widget will do just the same. In the case of the furniture you mentioned, I could gladly point you towards some very high quality american made products if that's what you are looking for.

"I would slap a 15% tarriff on everything coming into the states manufactured overseas."

And in doing so reduce the value of the dollar by the same amount, since the consumer would no longer be able to purchase said product with the same amount of money. Why? In reality, you would have to tax at such a rate that the foreign products were now more expensive than those produced domestically, further reducing the spending power of consumers.

Liberals see more good in people and they tend to feel some responsibility to their fellow man (in varying degrees), kinda like that Jesus fella.

#58 | Posted by WhoDaMan

Liberals talk like they feel more responsibility to their fellow man. Then they expect government and other taxpayers to pay the freight. Charitable giving is much higher amongst conservatives and conservatives would rather not have government mismanage their money through bureaucratic waste.

What Obama should do is cut corporate taxes.

#60 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

I guess you're not aware that the US has one of the lowest effective tax rates (the amount you actually end up paying, not what the stated rate is) in the G20 countries. Businesses are not fleeing Europe. And many of the most profitable corporations in this country paid NO income taxes in the US in the last several years (they paid income taxes in Europe and Asia, though).

Why? In reality, you would have to tax at such a rate that the foreign products were now more expensive than those produced domestically, further reducing the spending power of consumers.

Not if you pay them a la Ford, enough to purchase what they make. Are you aware that German auto workers make more than American auto workers and they are gasp unionized?

My definition of American Exceptionalism is that there are there a lot of things that everybody understands except Americans.

The Feds formally took responsibility for the economy in 1946

"The Employment Act, Act of Feb. 20, 1946, ch. 33, section 2, 60 Stat. 23, codified as 15 U.S.C. § 1021, is a United States federal law. Its main purpose was to lay the responsibility of economic stability onto the federal government." en.wikipedia.org

The lesson: when government says they'll do something, expect the opposite. These imbeciles can't even control their spending.

That may be madbomber. But it is a calculated trade. Short term devaluing of the dollar and reduction in spending power, for longterm sustainable growth and an ironclad manufacturing base a country requires to survive. Start producing quality products here, and he world will notice, and be willing to pay for that quality. Cheap shit is great if you can't wait to replace it every few months/years. Using my furniture purchases as an example: I bought all quality american made goods that my kids will be able to use at the same level they are now when I am gone. Or, I could have saved a few bucks, and be looking to repurchase the same items in ten years.

This countries biggest fucking problem is we have the collective attention span of a gnat.

#62 | Posted by WhoDaMan

When an American company makes money overseas and they want to bring the money back into America--it is taxed unbelievably high--something like 70%.

Danforth might know the percentage.

The tax code is crap. You don't see European or Asian companies coming here in droves. There are some--but that is because the state is giving the company a break on state taxes in order to attract jobs.

The tax code should be thrown out--one rate for everyone including the corporations and no deductions--period.

And wouldn't it be nice if we could put a tariff on everything --even China?

But with China holding us by the you know whats--we can't do anything...

And good golly ms. molly!

Obama was already focused on jobs--for 2 years!

All that 'pivoting' must have made him dizzy...

And look where that got us.

Now he really really really is going to focus on jobs??

He'll hire another book worm with no experience in creating jobs in the private sector to replace Summers--another academic book worm with no value...

Why should anyone expect the economy that went from great to horrible in 8 short years to be turned around in 2 years?

Why should anyone expect the economy that went from great to horrible in 8 short years to be turned around in 2 years?

Because Obama promised so.

Kaine: Job Creation is Job One

No, Kaine.

"Job One" is wiping this ridiculous fucking health care bill off the ass of the nation.

Job Two is a concerted and sustained effort to crush public employee unions--through any means necessary. We can deal with any congressional/criminal hearings regarding these efforts at a later date.

"Job Creation" will naturally follow.

Job Two is a concerted and sustained effort to crush public employee unions--through any means necessary

Citizen

President Obama's top priorities include...cutting the deficit and earmark reform.

LOL.

Gimme a fucking break.

"President" Obama's top priority is getting his sorry punk ass re-elected in 2012.

I hear he's reading up on ronaldus magnus for tips on how to push the agenda through.

(Hint, Barry---He didn't despise the institutions that made his country work.)

Quack,quack

"President" Obama's top priority is getting his sorry punk ass re-elected in 2012.

He's said repeatedly,he'd rather be a one term president than pander to your sorry ass

He's said repeatedly,he'd rather be a one term president...

It's another empty promise, but one that the electorate will force hime to keep in 2012

but one that the electorate will force hime to keep in 2012

Nostragoatmandamus

He's said repeatedly,he'd rather be a one term president than pander to your sorry ass

And you're even stupider than I thought if you believe that for a minute.

He's also said "repeatedly" that you can "keep you health care plan" if you like it-----and that we're not going to ration health care based on the value we assign to a human life.

It's dumb motherfuckers like you that put this sack of shit into power.

You need to apologize to your grandchildren the next time you see them.

How was The Bachelor?

It's dumb motherfuckers like me

You need to apologize to your grandchildren the next time you see them.

Saw the five of them this evening actually.

How was The Bachelor?
How would I know,I don't follow your escapades on face book.

Hey,Jak se Mao,I'm sure he'll run.
He's saying if you don't approve I'll lose.
WTF is wrong with that

The world's top manufacturing country is the United States, as has been the case since before WWII. In 2007, the United States' manufacturing output was $1.831 trillion US Dollars (USD). This is about 12% of the USA's entire GDP (Gross Domestic Product), or $12,206 USD for every person in the 150 million-strong labor force. Still, the USA's output per capita is not the world's greatest among manufacturing countries -- that honor goes to Japan. Important goods manufactured in the United States include, in order of percentage of exports in 2007: production machinery and equipment, 31.4%; industrial supplies, 27.5%; non-auto consumer goods, 12.7%; motor vehicles and parts, 10.5%; aircraft and parts, 7.6%; food, feed and beverages, and 7.3%; and other, 3.0%.

In 2007, the top manufacturing countries besides the United States were China ($1,106 billion USD), Japan ($926 billion USD), Germany ($670 billion USD), the Russian Federation ($362 billion USD), Italy ($345 billion USD), the United Kingdom ($342 billion USD), France ($296 billion USD), South Korea ($241 billion USD), Canada ($218 billion USD), Spain ($208 billion USD), and Brazil ($206 billion USD).

He's saying..

I don't give a fuck about what "he's saying..."

He's saying what his handlers are telling him to say so that dumb, largely apolitical motherfuckers like yourself will even consider voting for him in 2012.

The world's top manufacturing country is the United States, as has been the case since before WWII

We are still #1 manufacturing.Ever watch Modern Marvels on Cable TV.We have factories manufacturing with no employees.We manufacture all sorts of shit,but only with a truck driver in the front of the building delivering raw materials and a truck driver in the back picking up finished product.

The world's top manufacturing country is the United States, as has been the case since before WWII.

SHHHH!

America is a country that doesn't make anything anymore.

The happy, hard-hatted, lunchbox-toting union member has been liquidated by the evil global capitalists that sold us out to China.

Don't fuck up the narrative.

America sucks.

We manufacture all sorts of shit,but only with a truck driver in the front of the building delivering raw materials and a truck driver in the back picking up finished product.

That's fucking horrible.

We should pay people $70,000 a year and a pension to just simply watch what goes on in between.

Lots of things can go wrong with automation, you know.

He's saying what his handlers are telling him to say so that dumb, largely apolitical motherfuckers like yourself will even consider voting for him in 2012.

Nobody has decided how they are going to vote in 2012,most of us are still tired from the last election,who's winners haven't done a god damn thing yet

Settle the fuck down
Wait for it

"Liberals see more good in people and they tend to feel some responsibility to their fellow man (in varying degrees), kinda like that Jesus fella."

If so, then why aren't liberals using thier own resources to correct for these deficiencies? The left isn't talking about pooling thier own resources to help their fellow man. Instead, they are demanding that government take the money from others to pay for their pet projects. In other words, you want to achieve an ideological goal, but you don't want to have to suffer for it yourself.

And Jesus. Jesus was talking with his followers about helping the poor. He wasn't going to Pontius Pilate and demanding that Rome tax the shit out of the productive class in order to subsidize those that were less productive.

I would hazard a guess that you have plenty of disposable income you could direct toward your fellow man, you simply elect not to because it would reduce your standard of living. Am I right?

"I guess you're not aware that the US has one of the lowest effective tax rates (the amount you actually end up paying, not what the stated rate is) in the G20 countries."

Uh, no. First of all, the US has the second highest corporate taxes on planet earth iirc. Second, the effective corporate tax rates reside in the top quintile. But don't take my word for it-here is the CBO report.

"www.cbo.gov"

"Businesses are not fleeing Europe."

Are businesses fleeing the US? Please tell me if they are.

"Not if you pay them a la Ford, enough to purchase what they make. Are you aware that German auto workers make more than American auto workers and they are gasp unionized?"

You're gonna have to provide a reference that says German auto workers make more money. I'm not saying it isn't true-it may well be. But remember, German cars are differentiated goods. BMW and Mercedes appeal to people that are less price sensitive and don't mind paying more. And I guess you were unaware that the per hour labor unit cost for the big three is between $70-75 dollars per hour. And that's from a UAW memo.

But let's stay with this one for a sec. Assume that company X is producing widgets, and wants to pay its workers $30 and hour-about six times what it would cost to employ the same labor in Mexico. Obviously this is going to translate to a higher price for the consumer. Now, since the consumer has a vote, he may elect to buy the more expensive american made product out of national pride, but more than likely the average consumer is going to buy the cheaper product. With undifferentiated products there is very little price elasticity, and the firm able to offer the less expensive product is likely going to sweep the market, leaving demand for the domestically produced items tangent to zero. At which point all the employees lose their jobs and the company goes out of business. Is this the preferable outcome you were looking to achieve?

Oh, and BTW, IMO the Germans don't have anywhere near the standard of living of Americans. GDP Per Capita, the US is 11. Germany is 35.

"My definition of American Exceptionalism is that there are there a lot of things that everybody understands except Americans."

Really? So we're the stupid kids? Then why the fuck wouldn't you go somewhere else? You're certainly not here to help me or anyone else out. There are plenty of places out there where you could support a government that was willing to indulge your ideological goals.

The difference between you and me is that I want a country where you are free to work with those who think like you to accomplish an end goal-provided that you hurt no one else in the process. You seem to feel that coercing others as a means of modifying behavior that you disapprove of or doesn't fit your worldview is OK.

"Short term devaluing of the dollar and reduction in spending power, for longterm sustainable growth and an ironclad manufacturing base a country requires to survive. Start producing quality products here, and he world will notice, and be willing to pay for that quality."

I don't disagree, but "quality" is the operative word here. And that doesn't require an act of congress. All it takes is consumers willing to pay more for these higher quality products. The problem is that the vast majority of consumer products we buy are commodities, and there isn't really a qualitative factor is the consumption calculus. For example, the Nike's that I run in every morning were made in Indonesia. Making them in the US wouldn't improve the quality, it would simply make them more expensive. Running shoes are like toilet paper-they are consumables.

Whine, JAK

There isn't a Republican who can beat Obama.

Think Mitt is your Savior? HA HA! First time someone brings up how he made his money - buying companies and moving the jobs to China - he'll be toast. Palin (uh, sure). Sorry, get used to 6 more years.

At least you'll have another 6 years to bitch about a competent President who makes George Bush look like the "Barney Pooper-Scooper." The only job he was ever qualified for as evidenced by the huge heaping pile of shit he left America in - just like every company he ran into the ground while others were making killings in oil. Only a complete loser could do that. Your kind of President.

We should pay people $70,000 a year and a pension to just simply watch what goes on in between.

What's this we shit,its private business that you SEEM to be so fond of

"...leaving demand for the domestically produced items tangent to zero."
#83 | Posted by madbomber

Can you explain what "tangent to zero" means?

TAN (0) = 0

Hehe... and applied to consumer demand in some meaningful way?

The problem is that the vast majority of consumer products we buy are commodities, and there isn't really a qualitative factor is the consumption calculus.

Commodities are generally considered to be raw materials. Consumer products (like running shoes) are manufactured goods, not commodities.

And what exactly does "qualitative factor is the consumption calculus" mean?

www.youtube.com

Let's see comrades. We have close to $15 trillion in debt, 17 million people unemployed, 43 million people on food stamps, and over 50 million with no health insurance in the USA. Now we have tax breaks for the rich, a roaring stock market, and 1% or less interest on savings in the banks. What's wrong with this picture?

"Settle the fuck down"

you do realize you are arguing with a seperatist right?

the guy wants texas to be its own country.

jak only pretends to be american as long as the democracy votes the way he wants.

and when he gets angry, he gets into a bar fight.

and you are trying to have a civil conversation with him?

he has since the election, been passionate about how much a "piece of shit" the president is while probably cheering our bankrupcy with the previous president.

who cares what he thinks...

Liberals talk like they feel more responsibility to their fellow man. Then they expect government and other taxpayers to pay the freight. Charitable giving is much higher amongst conservatives and conservatives would rather not have government mismanage their money through bureaucratic waste.

#61 | POSTED BY MATSOP

No, liberals believe in creating a social structure wherein the taking care of the least of these is not dependent upon and subject to the whims of people who don't want money to go to people they don't like. Such a structure would be reliable and would allow people the security they need. The real American Dream is not to get rich. It is get a job that will allow them to live a reasonably comfortable life, own a home, be able to send their kids to college and retire while they are still able to enjoy retirement.

What has happened since the 80's is that the dream has been perverted by the culture of Gordon Gecko ("greed, for lack of a better word is good!"). The great heroes were the arbitrageurs who engineered hostile takeovers of the country's most productive companies with borrowed money and loaded that debt onto the books of those companies, raided the pension funds, laid everybody off and sold off all the assets. They should have gone to jail instead of becoming celebrities. Then taxes were reduced on these same people, while increasing the tax burden on the middle class. Then started the cuts in the programs that benefited the middle class. The cost of education skyrocketed as tax support was reduced in the nation's state universities.

All this time the wealth that was supposed to "trickle down" to the middle and lower classes accumulated at the top, where it still is. The top % of a % of earners have more than doubled their share of the American economic pie in the last 20 years. Tell me how it is benefiting the rest of America. WTF is it that they did to earn that? Make smart bets in the Wall Street Casino? Gambling is earning now? America has totally lost its moral compass all the while moaning about the loss of "traditional family values". People, you have been suckered.

#94 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2011-01-04 09:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

^^^^THIS^^^^^

All of it.

Yer newsletter.

Spud would like to subscribe.

Be Well.

"Gambling is earning now?"

yup

#77, Bruce Banner:

US Manufacturing sector is still the largest in the world, yes. What isn't represented in your wonderous statistics is that from the year 2000 to 2004 the manufacturing sector lost 3 million jobs or 17.5 percent. Interestingly, due to increased productivity and automation, the output remained unchanged, but that is still 3 million jobs lost. Rightfully, as increased productivity is a GOOD thing.

However, I believe those 3 million people could be employed by the industries that have outsourced to India, China, Malayasia, and other countries if we adopted some protectionist strategies. If we did, we could increase our presence on the global stage of manufacturing, rather than getting excited that we are able to stagnate while employing fewer people.

"Can you explain what "tangent to zero" means?"

In economics courses, you are taught that perfect competition leaves a companies profit margin being tangent to zero. Basically, it means that the company would theoretically have just enough incentive to not shut down operations. Pennies perhaps. Since this was ultimately a discussion about the effects of competition, it was a play on words. I personally believe that these companies would be operating in the red very quickly in most cases.

In calculus, tangent means that the line approaches a certain value to infinity, but never actually reaches it.

"And what exactly does "qualitative factor is the consumption calculus" mean?"

If I want a pair of jeans to mow my lawn in, I want them for a utilitarian purpose. The jeans that I would be looking at would basically be commodities, in that they are undifferentiated goods. I would buy the cheapest pair available that met the quality level necessary to allow me to mow my lawn. Contrast that to the jeans that I buy to wear out to a nightclub. Personally, I would probably choose Diesel Jeans, which cost around $200 a pair. That would be about ten times the amount I paid for the jeans I mow my lawn in. The reason is that Diesel has branded itself in a way where the name, rather than the utilitarian value, is where the value lies. When I am buying my lawn mowing jeans, I just care that they are able to keep pebbles from flying up and hitting my bare skin. I could care less what brand they are. For my party pants, brand is far more important.

To be more clear on commodities-you are correct that commodities are the raw materials that are traded on various floors in the Chicago area, but one of the defining characteristics of these products is that they are undifferentiated. Buying dry edible beans from farmer X is no different than buying dry edible beans from farmer Y. Finished consumer products can be the same way, especially when they are not marketed in a way that creates a specific brand image. Generic products at grocery stores, or inexpensive clothing sold at Wal Mart, are good examples of this. Labor will also usually behave as a commodity at any given time, since hiring one worker with a specific skill set offers no advantage that offering another with the same skill, all other things being equal. The only departure from that may be if an employer wants to hire a graduate of a specific college as a way of improving the brand image of his or her company.

"No, liberals believe in creating a social structure wherein the taking care of the least of these is not dependent upon and subject to the whims of people who don't want money to go to people they don't like."

Should read: No, liberals believe in creating a social structure wherein the taking care of the least of these is not dependent upon and subject to the whims of people who don't want money to go to people THAT DIDN'T EARN IT.

"The top % of a % of earners have more than doubled their share of the American economic pie in the last 20 years."

They have also been the people who invented, markets, and distributed a new class of products and services that revolutionized our society. They didn't get rich in a vacuum-they got rich because we, the members of society, willingly gave them our money for the goods and services they could provide us. They deserve to be rich.

REMEMBER THIS is the SAME guy who said as late as 11.1.10..

oh its not going to be the terrible election that many republicans say its going to be..

hee hee hee hee/./////////

Hey, Afk, didja see the Texas-deficit article? Hm.

sure./...we dont HAVE deficits in texas....its just that we MIGHT come up a little short this month....

no seriously...when the budget is passed, there will be no deficit...there will be cuts in things of course, but we believe the GOP super majority that we have sent there will do the right thing..

they had better....and remember...the count now is 100 gop and 50 dems...
gop could even pass a constitutional amendment WITHOUT ONE SINGLE GODDAMN DEM VOTE....so if they fuck up...well...we will know who did it now wont we????

and one more thing...DEMS CANT run off to arizona to keep a quorem from happening like the chickenshits did before...so again...the pressure is ALL ON THE GOP.....lets see who is better off in a year or two

california
new york

texas...

"They deserve to be rich."

They also deserve to pay their fair share of the taxes to the country that enabled them to be rich.

"so if they fuck up...well...we will know who did it now wont we????"

You already have a 25 billion dollar deficit, in your strange world what will you finally determine to be a fuck up?

oh danni....you have no clue about this....there is a rainy day fund to take most of that figure and as I said before.

in texas we dont HAVE a budget deficit...its just that we might come up a little short this month.... :)

and it will be taken care of...and not like california or new york..

so we in texas REALLY appreciate the concern you'all are showing..but dont worry about us....when GAS GETS CLOSER TO FIVE BUCKS a gallon like its heading...we will be okay...

And I guess you were unaware that the per hour labor unit cost for the big three is between $70-75 dollars per hour. And that's from a UAW memo.

#83 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

And I guess you were unaware that that includes health care and pensions, and that in Germany that is provided by the state, and therefore is not included in the cost of labor.

Uh, no. First of all, the US has the second highest corporate taxes on planet earth iirc. Second, the effective corporate tax rates reside in the top quintile. But don't take my word for it-here is the CBO report.
"www.cbo.gov"

#83 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

According to your link, the unweighted average corporate tax as a percentage of GDP in OECD countries is 3.4%, the weighted average is 2.5% and the United States is 1.8%. What was your point again?

They have also been the people who invented, markets, and distributed a new class of products and services that revolutionized our society. They didn't get rich in a vacuum-they got rich because we, the members of society, willingly gave them our money for the goods and services they could provide us. They deserve to be rich.

#99 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

And where did the infrastructure come from that allowed them to do all of that? An educated workforce (publicly funded); basic scientific research (ditto); the internet (ditto); intellectual property protection (ditto)? I won't even mention the physical infrastructure (airports, air traffic control, interstate highways, police, fire protection). You don't think they should have to pay to maintain all of that? Climb up the ladder and then pull it up after you?

You think those people could have been as successful somewhere other than the US? I say, fine, let them go there (and stay there!).

Republicans are telling Americans a Big Lie, and Obama and the Democrats are letting them. The Big Lie is our economic problems are due to a government that's too large, and therefore the solution is to shrink it.

The truth is our economic problems stem from the biggest concentration of income and wealth at the top since 1928, combined with stagnant incomes for most of the rest of us. The result: Americans no longer have the purchasing power to keep the economy going at full capacity. Since the debt bubble burst, most Americans have had to reduce their spending; they need to repay their debts, can't borrow as before, and must save for retirement.

The short-term solution is for government to counteract this shortfall by spending more, not less. The long-term solution is to spread the benefits of economic growth more widely (for example, through a more progressive income tax, a larger EITC, an exemption on the first $20K of income from payroll taxes and application of payroll taxes to incomes over $250K, stronger unions, and more and better investments in education and infrastructure.)

But instead of telling the truth, Obama has legitimized the Big Lie by freezing non-defense discretionary spending, freezing federal pay, touting his deficit commission co-chairs' recommended $3 of spending cuts for every dollar of tax increase, and agreeing to extending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.

excerpted from Robert Reich

Amazes me that everyone has forgotten TWO WARS and tax cuts. It was true under Bush and is still true under Obama- YOU DON'T CUT TAXES WHEN AT WAR!

Amazes me that everyone has forgotten TWO WARS and tax cuts. It was true under Bush and is still true under Obama- YOU DON'T CUT TAXES WHEN AT WAR!

#111 | POSTED BY KANREI

...And an unfunded $trillion drug prescription plan that is prohibited from negotiating for the best price.

"Oh, but the deficit"! --The Right

Kiss my ass.

...And an unfunded $trillion drug prescription plan that is prohibited from negotiating for the best price.

"Oh, but the deficit"! --The Right

Kiss my ass.

#112 | Posted by WhoDaMan

And did you know the original concept of that bill was to have commercial insurers and medicare compete for the business but the dems blocked it so the compromise was that commercials could administer the plans. Gnaw on that one, WhoDa?.

Not to be completely pejorative, but I do agree with your comments from post #94 albeit is incomplete and only part of the issue.

"They also deserve to pay their fair share of the taxes to the country that enabled them to be rich."

They surely do, and right now they are paying more than their "fair" share. And the country just didn't enable them to be rich, they made them rich-forced them to be rich even.

"And I guess you were unaware that that includes health care and pensions, and that in Germany that is provided by the state, and therefore is not included in the cost of labor."

Those programs themselves are at least partially funded by the American taxpayer, who currently provide the bulk of defense spending for continental Europe. If we were to withdraw this support by pulling our assets out of Europe, countries such as Germany would be forced to make the very tough choice of whether or not to maintain expansive social programs and forego having a robust defensive strategy, or to cut social programs and make up the defense gap out of their own tax receipts.

"According to your link, the unweighted average corporate tax as a percentage of GDP in OECD countries is 3.4%, the weighted average is 2.5% and the United States is 1.8%. What was your point again?"

Your original point was that EFFECTIVE TAX RATES, as opposed to your new focus on PERCENTAGE OF GDP, was the lowest of the G20. That is simply not true as can be found starting on page 35 of the CBO deliverable. In short, you are not even responding to your original argument-presumably because I just demonstrated it to be false. I'll do you a favor and break it down for you.

Top Statutory Median Tax Rate for OECD (2002): 35%
US Statutory Tax Rate for OECD (2002): 39%
Effective Maginal Corporate Tax Rate for 2003: 23%
Upper quintile, select OECD: 23%

But don't believe me, read past page 27 and you will find the same thing. The reason for this is simple-the US has a much larger economy. Corporate tax revenues simply make up a smaller portion of aggregate revenues. What you didn't mention is the fact that Germany has much lower corporate taxes (1%). Given your apparent infatuation with that countries policies, should we be working to the point where our Corporate taxes represented a similar portion of the GDP?

"And where did the infrastructure come from that allowed them to do all of that?"

For your question to be accurate, you would have to rephrase it to question which infrastructure specific to those companies (as opposed to that available for public use) facilitated their growth. I am not aware of any. If you are, please let me know.

"You don't think they should have to pay to maintain all of that?"

By themselves? Of course not. And they don't. Why should Dell alone pay for streets in Austin that everyone else drives on? Why should Microsoft pay for airports in Redmond that everyone uses. Why should apple alone be responsible for funding public schools that most people attend?

"You think those people could have been as successful somewhere other than the US?"

No. Because in very few other places is innovation rewarded the way it is in the US. And if they had been elsewhere, you would not have anywhere near the level of consumer goods you have today. I can at least attest to the fact that you like your computer, which probably would be no where near what it is now if it hadn't been for a friendly business environment.

OOPPSSS Sorry, deficit creation is job one.

And did you know the original concept of that bill was to have commercial insurers and medicare compete for the business but the dems blocked it so the compromise was that commercials could administer the plans. Gnaw on that one, WhoDa?

#113 | POSTED BY MATSOP

So you're saying that when the Repubs had control of the House, the Senate and the White House, the problems in Medicare were caused by having to compromise with the minority Democrats?

Then who's fault is it that when the Dems had control of the House, the Senate and the White House that there are problems with the Health Care bill? Could it be from having to compromise with the minority Republicans?

And you're also saying that the Democrats wanted for there to be no negotiations on price? How come I've never ever heard that anywhere before?

"You don't think they should have to pay to maintain all of that?"
By themselves? Of course not. And they don't. Why should Dell alone pay for streets in Austin that everyone else drives on? Why should Microsoft pay for airports in Redmond that everyone uses. Why should apple alone be responsible for funding public schools that most people attend?

But neither should they be given exemptions from those taxes as they are often given because they make states and localities underbid each other trying to attract jobs. I consider it a form of blackmail. "If you don't give me a tax break so I don't have to pay so much to support the infrastructure, I'll move to another state." "If you don't agree to pay me to train my own employees (an agreement NC had with MCI back in the 90's), I'll take my business elsewhere and your jobs will go away."

"You think those people could have been as successful somewhere other than the US?"
No. Because in very few other places is innovation rewarded the way it is in the US.

How exactly is innovation rewarded here that is different from everywhere else?

#114 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

"What you didn't mention is the fact that Germany has much lower corporate taxes (1%).

I don't know where you get your info but the German total corporate income tax rate (includes solidarity surcharge and local trade tax) is 30%, they also have a capital gains tax rate of 25% and income tax rates with brackets as high as 45%. Yet, German industry booms, they are the second largest exporter in the world.

en.wikipedia.org

Germany is the country which proves the fallacy that low taxes on the wealthy or on corporations are what creates jobs.

Damn those facts>/i>, with their well known liberal bias!

oops. typoed the "unitalicize"

Damn those facts, with their well known liberal bias!

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