Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Saturday, August 28, 2010

And according to one of Bush's cabinet secretaries and close friends, the memoir will give the public a chance for "serious debate" over whether Bush's economic policies helped push the country into an economic meltdown:

Former Commerce Secretary Donald Evans, a close family friend, said the publicity would give the public a chance to reassess Mr. Bush's record. "Did we head into a tough period in the last six months in office? Sure," Mr. Evans said. "Was it a result of policies in his administration? I think there will be serious debate about that. We'll be debating about it a long time."

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I wont be debating it. Bush's cronies started this mess and Obama exacerbated it.

Bush's cronies started this mess and Obama exacerbated it.

#1 | Posted by Diablo

Reagan's cronies started this mess.

...Someone will be along to say it started even earlier then that.

Someone will be along to say it started even earlier then that.
#2 | Posted by Whatsleft

I'll give it a try. Three seminal events: Wilson's Federal Reserve Act of 1913, Roosevelt's gold confiscation and Nixon's abandonment of the gold standard. That gave the feds license to run up debt and obligations to infinity without increasing taxes to pay for expenses. Every president added to the total, some less and some more. And now it's accumulated beyond all means of maintenance without resorting to money printing. This cult of personality misses the most important point. Our fiscal problems are systematic.

Ray,

Seeing as there is not a single non-fiat currency on the planet, is civilization itself pretty much done?

No. It's changing. The bad ideas have reached the end of their life. That's the catalyst for a new currency based on gold and silver. Germany and China and maybe others seem to moving in that direction. As for us Americans. We're fucked.

#3 | Posted by Ray

I almost said "...Ray will be along..." but I thought that might be too presumptive. I guess not.

Ray

You know there are insufficient world wide gold reserves to meet monetary demand? Where do you suppose we could go with an all specie monetary system? We use those metals we can't be holding on to them for money. Even if we could how would we have growth with all specie monetary system? We would have a fixed upper bounds of growth, how is that a good thing?

I can appreciate where Ray is coming from in that fiat money doesn't make a lot of sense.

But then, money backed by a slightly radioactive heavy element doesn't make a lot of sense either. Especially considering the exponential increases in our ability to acquire gold.

Black gold seems a more obvious choice for the rubber-meets-the-road reality of a modern currency, and in a way the Greenback is just that, as the preferred currency for oil purchases.

Simple scarcity is not enough. I do agree with Ray, "It's changing." The currency is energy. We convert human food into machine fuel, and pay our farmers to do so. One might even ask who is in charge, the humans or the machines...

But then, money backed by a slightly radioactive heavy element doesn't make a lot of sense either. Especially considering the exponential increases in our ability to acquire gold.

Believe what you want. Fiat currencies have, without exception, led short lives. (The unbacked dollar is only 40 years old and nearing the end of its life) Gold has been valued as money for thousands of years all over the world.

The currency is energy.

Energy is a commodity. It doesn't have the attributes that make it a convenient medium of trade and a practical store of value.

Ray you still haven't answered me about world gold supply and putting a fixed limit on growth. That is of course ignoring the issue that we use more than half the gold we have in supply.

Oh and by fixed growth I mean that in 2009 119,561,088,000 worth of gold was mined. If we were only using gold as money that would be the total growth of the economic engine in 1 year (assuming we quit using it in pesky things like computers and teeth.)

Ray you still haven't answered me about world gold supply and putting a fixed limit on growth. That is of course ignoring the issue that we use more than half the gold we have in supply.

In a free market, a shortage of gold is impossible. There is always a price at which gold satisfies its role as money. Historically, silver and copper served as money for lower denominations. That doesn't preclude other commodities providing they become commonly accepted as money.

What is real money?
1. It must tangible.
2. It must be difficult to mine so to restrict the growth in supply.
3. It must be inert, that is its weight doesn't change.
4. It must be easily divisible.
5. It must be portable for carrying and compact for storage.
6. It must be commonly accepted as a medium of exchange.

Money serves as both a medium of exchange and a store of value. Fiat money performs satisfactorily as a medium of exchange, but it's a terrible store of value as these long years of inflation have proved. Americans can't imagine a world where prices go down, but that is exactly what would happen if we had a stable supply of money. It is production that brings prices down. We've seen that happen in electronics only because improvements in productivity and expansion of production brought prices down faster than inflation pushed prices up.

Energy is a commodity. It doesn't have the attributes that make it a convenient medium of trade and a practical store of value.

Neither does gold, that's why they print currency. So, once you've abstracted the underlying commodity away, why not back currency with energy? It's far more relevant than a shiny rock. See the graph, www.thedailygreen.com

Anyway, it is hard to think we haven't jumped the shark when a (copper) penny from before 1983 contains more than one penny's worth of copper.

Energy is a commodity. It doesn't have the attributes that make it a convenient medium of trade and a practical store of value.
Neither does gold, that's why they print currency

Go for it. Where are you going to store your oil? How many people do you think will accept your oil as money.? How do you divide it for exchange? I'll leave those for you to figure out.

BTW, during the past ten years, other commodities have risen faster than gold too. That doesn't make them practical as money as I outlined in #12. I'll lay strong odds that as this crises worsens, you'll see gold and silver accelerate out of the pack.

Increasing home ownership has been the goal of several presidents including Roosevelt, Reagan, Clinton and G.W.Bush.
.
Sheila Bair, chair of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, noted that "The financial crisis was triggered by a reckless departure from tried and true, common-sense loan underwriting practices,"

Former Chief Credit Officer Edward Pinto explains how it all went wrong. Here is a time line

In 1982, Congress passed the Alternative Mortgage Transactions Parity Act (AMTPA), which allowed non-federally chartered housing creditors to write adjustable-rate mortgages.

The second is much less well known but equally deadly: the central role in the recent real estate collapse that was played by the federal affordable housing policy created by Congress and implemented since the 1990s by HUD and banking regulators.

In 1991, the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs was advised by community groups such as Acorn that "Lenders will respond to the most conservative standards unless [Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac] are aggressive and convincing in their efforts to expand historically narrow underwriting."
Congress made this advice the law of the land when it passed the inaptly named Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992 (GSE Act of 1992). This law imposed affordable housing mandates on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac which allowed the Feds to loan up to 300 thousand dollars with only 900 dollars down.

Thus, beginning in 1993, regulators started to abandon the common sense underwriting principles of adequate down payments, good credit, and an ability to handle the mortgage debt. Substituted were liberalized lending standards that led to an unprecedented number of no down payment, minimal down payment and other weak loans, and a housing finance system ill-prepared to absorb the shock of declining prices.

In 1995, HUD announced a National Homeownership Strategy built upon the liberalization of underwriting standards nationally. It entered into a partnership with most of the private mortgage industry, announcing that "Lending institutions, secondary market investors, mortgage insurers, and other members of the partnership [including Countrywide] should work collaboratively to reduce homebuyer downpayment requirements."

The upshot? In 1990, one in 200 home purchase loans (all government insured) had a down payment of less than or equal to 3%. By 2006 an estimated 30% of all home buyers put no money down.

I'll revise attribute 6. in #12 to be more clear.
6. It must be commonly accepted as a direct medium of exchange.

Meaning a seller must be willing to accept the physical commodity for exchange. A commodity receipt doesn't satisfy that condition when the receipt isn't trusted. Oil is currently traded in dollars.

You can't buy a gallon of milk with gold dust, Ray.

We live in a world of plenty, Ray. Life is good.

"Deficits don't matter."-Dick Cheney.

You can't buy a gallon of milk with gold dust

Sure you can 2 grains gold will get you a gallon of milk.

In a free market, a shortage of gold is impossible

So you propose no longer using gold for industrial needs? If we want it to be money that will be what is necessary. We currently use 60 billion dollars worth of gold. Unless you are proposing a gold price of around 10k an ounce, which of course will stop industrial use. I figure if we go with an all gold economy we will need a gold price of around 4-5k. This of course will screw up the 2 grains of gold for a gallon of milk and make it 1/2 grain gold for a gallon of milk.

Your gonna need to pull out your jewelers' loupe to do the weeks grocery shopping.

Your gonna need to pull out your jewelers' loupe to do the weeks grocery shopping.

I'll just squirt his sack of gold dust with a little bit of aqua regia and laugh.

I would imagine the "not responsible for the economy" line will be one of many whitewashes.

a little bit of aqua regia

Ever played around with any?

That is one nasty liquid.

I'll just squirt his sack of gold dust with a little bit of aqua regia and laugh.

That would be a nasty trick.

Oh and Ray just did some quick numbers based on the US economy alone. If we switch to gold standard your going to be a very rich man as gold will settle at 100000-125000 an ounce.

Which means that you could feed my family pretty well for a week with one grain of gold.

That is once again assuming we quit using the stuff and just use it for money. If we keep using it better double that to 200-250k and now I don't know how we'll exchange money at that rate. Since 1 grain will be worth about 425 bucks. Oh and for those who are following this and wondering 1 grain = 64.79891 milligrams.

Sure you can 2 grains gold will get you a gallon of milk.

Not at the piggly wiggly..... the cashier will look at you like you are retarded.

Oh and Ray just did some quick numbers based on the US economy alone. If we switch to gold standard your going to be a very rich man as gold will settle at 100000-125000 an ounce.

You missed an earlier post.

"In a free market, a shortage of gold is impossible. There is always a price at which gold satisfies its role as money. Historically, silver and copper served as money for lower denominations. That doesn't preclude other commodities providing they become commonly accepted as money."
#11 | Posted by Ray

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