We'd already know all this stuff if Clinton hadn't killed the SSC.

And so?

And so?

Looks like Mr. Chowderhead isn't interested in high energy physics.
I bet he's one of those 'exceptional' Americans.

Abdus Salaam would be impressed.

Abdus Salam was also the guy who TRIED to set back Pakistan's nuke project.

He was thrown out of the bomb project.

We treat him as a hero these days but he was dismissed for near-treason at one point.

They don't say that in Wiki, do they? LOL

He closely collaborated with his noted colleague and long-associated friend, Mr. Munir Ahmad Khan, in the field of nuclear technology in Pakistan.

His "friend", Munir Ahmed ratted him out and got him dismissed.

Years later, Munir Ahmed himself was dismissed in a similar manner.

If there can be anything more vicious than two women fighting... it's two Physicists fighting. LOL

Munir Ahmed Khan became paranoid with the pressure of the job to create Pakistan's first nuke.

He would play music on the radio 24 hours and talk in a whisper, convinced he was being bugged at all times and all places.

Pretty soon people became tired of trying to figure out what the hell he was saying. hahahahahahahahahahaha

Already the move to "save" the Standard Model is afoot...

#9 | Posted by Yul_B at 2010-06-15 08:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

They are just trying to cover the behind in that they will not be able to find what they are looking for, so they will have to make some cockamamey correlation between five particles that they find to make it kind of seem like they could have been the reason all particles have mass, even though they don't necessarily prove that.

Then they will say that they don't act on faith to any degree whatsoever.

We treat him as a hero these days but he was dismissed for near-treason at one point.

He was already on Pakistan's shit list because of his religious beliefs.

He was already on Pakistan's shit list because of his religious beliefs.

No, at that time he was very well placed and respected.

Shit list was created after he was sent away.

so they will have to make some cockamamey correlation between five particles that they find to make it kind of seem like they could have been the reason all particles have mass, even though they don't necessarily prove that.

Yes, it would appear cockamamey to some superstitious nutjob who regularly poolutes the internet with idiotic fundie-babble.

"New laws of physics...."

So it's a big universe and not a small one. Yes, this might be threatening to the superstitious---Scientifically inclined and otherwise.

Ray will be along to say these particles correspond to an astrological chart, and Zed will stop by and snicker.

I began sniggering some minutes ago.

#16 | Posted by Zed at 2010-06-15 10:38 AM | Reply | Flag: Racist

"US experiment hints at existence of multiple 'God Particles'"?

Spud experimented with LSD once and saw hints of multiple God Particles but fergot to document the event.

J/k.

So... the Holy Grail of Physics is once more w/i our grasp only now we got an even better idear wot to look for?

GL with that.

Seriously.

Be Well.

I thought the JEDI had already discovered the "God" particle:

#19 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum at 2010-06-15 01:20 PM | Reply | Flag: utterly clueless as to the origin of the phrase, thinks movies are the same as high energy physics

Let me guess, you didn't do well in 5th grade science.

#20 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2010-06-15 01:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let me guess, you got the shit kicked out of you often in the 5th grade.

Point being, good luck discovering "God" through science. All the more silly by naming a particle (slang or not) after a deity.

Great. That fat oil spilling idiot is banned so Toss-pot has to troll cover.

I wonder how much energy this collider consumers, how much it took to build, and what percentage of that was from fossil fuels.

*consumes

#21 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum at 2010-06-15 03:15 PM | Reply | Flag: wrong on all counts, as usual

Leon Lederman always regretted using that phrase.

Point being, good luck discovering "God" through science.

God... Allah... can only be discovered through science, my man.

How do you know what you call "God" isn't Man in the far future? How do you know, we didn't kill ourselves and evolved into a super-being who can influence time and space itself?

Do you have any doubt this will happen? I don't.

#25 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2010-06-15 03:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not going to pay to read that article - good ploy using evidence you must pay for to back up a ridiculous argument about naming a particle "God". So what if this one scientist regrets the name. YOU use it, and other members of this scientific community use it. Again, funny how you have to refer to the particle as a deity.

And for the most part ZAT, scientists who are the so called genius' of the world usually can't tie their own shoelaces without mommie's help. Give me an engineer over a scientist any day of the week - not quite as cerebral but considerably more grounded in reality as it pertains to the outside world (outside of a laboratory that is).

Now proceed to correct my spelling and grammer like the good little nazi that you are.

Do you have any doubt this will happen? I don't.

#26 | Posted by Tosser at 2010-06-15 03:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Non-starter argument. Trying to convince one side of the other when it comes to religion is as pointless as banging your head against the wall and results in greater headaches. I engage ZAT on the subject because he trusts science to a fault. And science throughout history has been VERY faulty.

I engage ZAT on the subject because he trusts science to a fault. And science throughout history has been VERY faulty.

You have misunderstood science.

The only truth we know to be absolutely true is that there is never a final answer and everything is subject to review.

THAT is science. THAT is the scientific method.

Having faith in science is the same as having faith in the future of humanity.

But, never mind. You won't get it.

#30 | Posted by Tosser at 2010-06-15 03:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

I had my fill of science in college - to the degree necessary to understand (obviously better than ZAT) that we don't know what we don't know and the assumption that we will find all the answers to what we don't know is arrogant and pointless.

Science is a tool to be used for the betterment of humanity. Not the other way around. Abuse it at our own risk. Scientists don't seem to be able to stop the gulf oil spill. Nor can they all agree on the climate - although ZAT will deny that to death's door.

The future of humanity is in it's past at this point. Science will only prolong lives long enough to see the end of our current civilization. Science will not be able to save what man is destroying. And I don't mean the environment.

I'll keep my "faith" in God thanks. I appreciate ZAT inventing the computer and all that, and I like my ipod, automobile, airplane and blackberry - but people died and suffered in the past, and they will continue to do so - the people who have faith in science to stop this are naive.

God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates man. Man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs...

Don't mistake my take on science like a flat earther - I just believe it is a tool - not a religion. Faith is reserved for family, friends and God.

Trust is a different issue - do I trust this bridge not to collapse as I drive over it? Tried and true science is to be trusted. Unproven theories and conclusions based on limited data are nothing to have "faith" or "trust" in. (ended in a preposition - ZAT is going to have me for that one).

Having faith in science is the same as having faith in the future of humanity.

#30 | Posted by Tosser at 2010-06-15 03:56 PM

Now proceed to correct my spelling and grammer...
#27 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum

"I had my fill of science in college - to the degree necessary to understand (obviously better than ZAT) that we don't know what we don't know and the assumption that we will find all the answers to what we don't know is arrogant and pointless."

Translation: I took General Biology in college and found out that there was a mile-high pile of stuff I didn't know, but since I knew enough to know that there was no way we'd find all the answers to what it is that we don't know -- otherwise we'd know, right, and not know, y'know? -- I, well, gave up and I'm as happy as a clam, bathed, as I am, in a sea of ignorance.

God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates man. Man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs...

#31 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum at 2010-06-15 04:07 PM

lol! Thank you, Tosser, for that bit of feel-good nonsense. Warm fuzzies all around!

Nobody can say Tosser doesn't have his moments!

Why the fuck are you quoting Jurassic Park?

#35 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2010-06-15 04:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

If was appropriate to the discussion (faith in science as opposed to God). Why the fuck are you so bothered by it? Certainly more entertaining dialogue than the feable attempts SPUD makes at theater. Just because I plagerized it does not make it any less applicable than "k" in a discussion here.

#34 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2010-06-15 04:11 PM | Reply | Flag: Failed general biology in college and took communications instead.

#34 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2010-06-15 04:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

You and ZAT are more than welcome to wait around for science to solve all your problems and discover the mysteries of the universe Doc - just don't hold your breath while they look for "God" in their laboratories.

Why would I do something like that?

#39 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum at 2010-06-15 04:22 PM | Reply | Flag: sufficiently stupid to think Lederman was referring to his imaginary friend

I had my fill of science in college - to the degree necessary to understand (obviously better than ZAT) that we don't know what we don't know and the assumption that we will find all the answers to what we don't know is arrogant and pointless.

Translation from christobabble: "I don't understand the first thing about science, but I still want to bitch about because it threatens my worldview ... I guess I'll rationalize my ignorance by pretending that science is irrelevant."

"we don't know what we don't know and the assumption that we will find all the answers to what we don't know is arrogant and pointless."

So cancer research and the search to cure the common cold?!? ABANDON THEM, as the fact we haven't succeeded yet proves we'll never succeed!
[/snark]

Thank God folks like Salk and Fleming felt differently.

What movie classic will E_Pluribus_Unum use next in his retort?

What movie classic will E_Pluribus_Unum use next in his retort?

"Attack of the Killer Tomatoes".... cult classic.

I just believe it is a tool - not a religion.

What do you believe religion is? Is it not also a tool?

#41 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2010-06-15 04:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

So in calling it the "God" particle, what was he referencing genius? He named it after a diety - unless you know that one of his friends was named "God"?

Funny how the atheists get so bent out of shape when you catch them in a reference to religion.

Also funny how they get so bent out of shape when you question their "religion". I never said I did not believe in science - or that science was not a tool to be USED by man for his betterment. I said that having "faith" in science was misplaced.

The DR left - one can short of a six pack and losing a can every day.

Please keep knee jerking on posts that disagree with yours and only reading the lines which allow you to get your panties in a twist - only makes you look more pitiful.

Thank God folks like Salk and Fleming felt differently.

#43 | Posted by Danforth at 2010-06-15 04:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

When did I say to abandon science fool? I said it was arrogant and pointless to think we will find ALL the answers to what we don't know. Science worshippers like ZAT think man will know all the answers someday due to science. I believe otherwise. Looking for "God" in science is pointless. Naming a particle "God" (after a DEITY) shows that arrogance in faith in science.

Now go back to your think tanks and find "God" if you can - you of the DR left superior intellect. HINT: not found in LSD so start somewhere else.

What do you believe religion is? Is it not also a tool?

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2010-06-15 05:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

A belief system? Way of life? A highway? It can be corrupted into being a tool by some - Olsteen comes to mind. The Catholic Church in the past used it as a tool. But inherently, it does not need to be? Man has corrupted religion - faith is personal, religion is a group thing. Religion and science need not be at odds. Nor should they try to take the place of each other.

"I said it was arrogant and pointless to think we will find ALL the answers to what we don't know."

IOW, give up now, avoid the rush.

How will we know what we can or can't do unless we keep trying?

"Looking for "God" in science is pointless. "

I disagree. That's how I found God: contemplating the infinite. The universe can't simply have a border (what's on the other side?), nor can it go on infinitely.

My problem is, through time, humans have decided what they didn't know was, therefore, God. That religious hubris has been disproved again and again.

IOW, give up now, avoid the rush.

#50 | Posted by Danforth at 2010-06-15 06:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

No - but thanks for playing. That statement is to ONLY address the "faith" of people like ZAT place in science - that it is "all knowing" or will provide ALL the answers.

As science has discovered what was not known throughout history, modern religions have adapted and lived in cooperation with one another. The ones that fail in this - well one need only look to the middle east.

Contemplating the infintite is a good example - science deals in borders, limits, laws, predictable responses to repeated events. They don't apply in the context of "expanding universe" or before the "big bang".

"The religous hubris has been disproved again and again...."

Again and again I've pointed out to you that I know no one, no one, who has Christian convictions to explain what is mysterious or what they don't know. You misunderstand so entirely it's breathtaking.

No Christian confuses what they don't know with God. You're speaking of someone or something else. I suspect it's your Imaginary Friend.

The ones that fail in this - well one need only look to the middle east.

No... the one that failed... we only have to look at you.

I am a Muslim... though not from the Middle East... and I have no problem at all with science in any form whatsoever.

Please look in the mirror and go back to school. You clearly have a lot to learn.

science deals in borders, limits, laws, predictable responses to repeated events. They don't apply in the context of "expanding universe" or before the "big bang".

Yes, we know the limitations of Newtonian physics. hahahahahahahahaha

What planet are you from?

Which means you flunked O'level Physics.

What would O'levels be in the American school system? Around 9th grade, I think? LOL

What's "high school"? Is 9th grade "high school" or less?

I said it was arrogant and pointless to think we will find ALL the answers to what we don't know.

Scientists don't think we will someday answer all questions. When a question is answered it gives rise to more questions.

What's "high school"? Is 9th grade "high school" or less?

High school is usually 9-12. Sometimes it's a 10-12 "senior high" with a 6-9 school being a "junior high." Otherwise 6-8 is "middle school" and 9-12 is "high school." And so on.

It varies from state to state, and from school district to school district.

I see. Thanks.

What planet are you from?

Uran..

No. I'm not going to do it. That joke is too goddamn old.

So in calling it the "God" particle, what was he referencing genius? He named it after a diety - unless you know that one of his friends was named "God"?

Why does it matter? The name was a joke that sailed right over your head. You bible-thumping dolts don't seem to be capable of processing humor (along with a great many other things).

You're a goddamn idiot.

Now, do I think you are an idiot because god has condemned you to a life of intellectual deficiency? Of course not.

Until ya'll learn that thang, you're just chumps.

It's just Rex fucking with you, guys.

Nietzsche, "Gay Science"

112 - Cause and Effect. We say it is "explanation "; but it is only in "description" that we are in advance of the older stages of knowledge and science. We describe better, we explain just as little as our predecessors. We have discovered a manifold succession where the naive man and investigator of older cultures saw only two things, "cause" and "effect,"as it was said; we have perfected the conception of becoming, but have not got a knowledge of what is above and behind the conception. The series of "causes" stands before us much more complete in every case; we conclude that this and that must first precede in order that that other may follow - but we have not grasped anything thereby. The peculiarity, for example, in every chemical process seems a "miracle," the same as before, just like all locomotion; nobody has "explained" impulse. How could we ever explain? We operate only with things which do not exist, with lines, surfaces, bodies, atoms, divisible times, divisible spaces - how can explanation ever be possible when we first make everything a conception, our conception? It is sufficient to regard science as the exactest humanizing of things that is possible; we always learn to describe ourselves more accurately by describing things and their successions. Cause and effect: there is probably never any such duality; in fact there is a continuum before us, from which we isolate a few portions - just as we always observe a motion as isolated points, and therefore do not properly see it, but infer it. The abruptness with which many effects take place leads us into error; it is however only an abruptness for us. There is an infinite multitude of processes in that abrupt moment which escape us. An intellect which could see cause and effect as a continuum, which could see the flux of events not according to our mode of perception, as things arbitrarily separated and broken - would throw aside the conception of cause and effect, and would deny all conditionality.

Shall we dance?

Warning to RCADE.... Rex spotted at 5 o'clock, heading due East! Let 'im have it!

Meanwhile at CERN, the hunt for the god particle continues...

Look at him! He can't help himself!

Seeing ghosts Karnak? Sounds like you "know" something (or think you do). Care to share?

Don't feel bad Karnak. To the "enlightened" Moslem apologist, we all look alike.

Those crazy Westerners, ya can't tell one Christian sect member from another w/o a score card. Even the atheists and Deists look alike.

It's both hilarious and sad that an article on particle physics generates so much discussion. It's hilarious because nobody is discussing the physics; instead, it generates interest only because of the name.

The headline really should be "Higgs Boson might be Multiple Particles."

instead, it generates interest only because of the name.

It isn't our fault some people are too dumb to understand science and they feel ... somehow... their stupid "faith" is under threat.

The Standard Model is also taking heat on a different front... so maybe the Higgs ain't SUPPOSED to be there after all...

The only truth we know to be absolutely true is that there is never a final answer and everything is subject to review.

#29 | Posted by Tosser at 2010-06-15 03:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

If there is never a final answer and everything is subject to review, how do you know that that truth is absolutely true?

"How do you know that truth is absolutely true....?"

As long as you can pretend that it is so on this blog, that's good enough.

how do you know that that truth is absolutely true?

By realizing a provisional answer will suffice for the time being.

Of course, there are many accepted truths... the sun does rise from the east... the ski IS blue... the moon IS made of cheese... but then the horizons keep expanding all the time.

In other words:

"The criterion of truth resides in the enhancement of the feeling of power." --Nietzsche, WtP 534 (1887-1888)

...or as Plato concluded, "If one is not, then nothing is" (Parmenides).

"The criterion of truth resides in the enhancement of the feeling of power." --Nietzsche, WtP 534 (1887-1888)
#77 | Posted by Yul_B at 2010-06-16 12:45 PM | Reply | Flag: ♫Cos' IIII Wanna BEEE-EEE Anarchyyyyy♫

Actually, we already know the truth, but stubborn people won't believe it.
Truth is, there is an infinite amount of particles, all smaller and smaller for each subatomic particle and God knows the position of all of them and co-ordinates them
that is because God is infinit.

"He upholds all things by the word of his mouth.)

So, in basic truth, all the money spent on accelerators is wasted, there is no unified field thery.
there is an infinite field theory.

When you look for unicorns in Alaska, you won't find them.
It is just part of a false theory to shortcut the unified field theory, can't do that.
there is no unified field theory, only an infinite field theory, way to complex to decipher.

we already know the truth, but stubborn people won't believe it.

Any idea stated as being beyond criticism is too filled with pride to ever be divine- unknown

When a question is answered it gives rise to more questions.

That's the beauty of science.

Not only expanding the parameters of what we do know but also the horizon of those things we know we don't know yet.

And science throughout history has been VERY faulty.

#28 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum

And RELIGION throughout history has been VERY faulty.

Science is self correcting.

Religion is not.

In honor of scientists everywhere.

"Science is self-correcting...."

Well, let's hope it does a better job than you do. By the way, yet to find any "Dominionists" in central Texas.

Epimetheus was always self-correcting too...

"Accept no gifts from Zeus!" lol!

If there is never a final answer and everything is subject to review, how do you know that that truth is absolutely true?

You don't. People who you find babbling on about "absolute truth" are generally idiots trying to prove a point with no evidence. Claiming their favorite just-so story is "absolutely true" is the only way to make it sound legitimate.

Through exhaustive observation and experimentation, you can demonstrate that something is true enough to be useful (it can be used to make accurate and verifiable predictions). Science is a business of constantly refining those approximations of reality. "Absolute truth" is an unattainable goal.

People who peddle some sort of absolutist secret to the universe are either delusional or full of shit. Or both.

Truth is, there is an infinite amount of particles, all smaller and smaller for each subatomic particle and God knows the position of all of them and co-ordinates them
that is because God is infinit.

Did your time traveling alien friend in the bottom of the ketamine vial tell you this? Or your shit-for-brains preacher?

Funny you should mention time travel...

"Absolute truth is an unobtainable goal...."

If that's the case, from a certain perspective there's no reason to think it exists.

But then again, if absolute truth doesn't exist, it makes you wonder what it is science is "approximating".

I guess you could approximate an approximation. And, to the extent that "worked" you could say you had something. Better stop talking about the frontiers of science, however. We're getting into something more in the nature of a cubist art exhibition.

...an ever greating "feeling" of great power.... ;)

erratum - ever greatER

By the way, yet to find any "Dominionists" in central Texas.

#86 | Posted by Zed but not actually looking either

But then again, if absolute truth doesn't exist, it makes you wonder what it is science is "approximating".

Reality, dimwit. If you want to call that "absolute truth," go ahead. But it is not something that is accessible to you or I.

Better stop talking about the frontiers of science, however.

Why? You ceased to have the faintest fucking clue as to what you were talking about as soon as we stepped beyond concepts taught in third grade.

"Not actually looking either....."

I think you've turned over a few rocks, found a few insects, and have imagined the rest. Those people you're frightened of? Not even enough of them to sponsor cleaning a Texas highway. Even the atheists and the pagans are able to muster that.

"As soon as we stepped beyond concept taught in 3rd Grade...."

You've never answered me---Got any credientials beyond a high school diploma at this point in your life?

...yet to find any "Dominionists" in central Texas.

Maybe you need to define "Central Texas" or maybe look just a bit farther around your state.

Zed -

This is how Texans spell "Education" - "The Word of God"

Yup nothing going on in Texas...move along.

Since the election of two Christian conservatives in 2006, there are now seven on the Texas state board who are quite open about the fact that they vote in concert to advance a Christian agenda. “They do vote as a bloc,” Pat Hardy, a board member who considers herself a conservative Republican but who stands apart from the Christian faction, told me. “They work consciously to pull one more vote in with them on an issue so they'll have a majority.”

The Christian “truth” about America's founding has long been taught in Christian schools, but not beyond. Recently, however -- perhaps out of ire at what they see as an aggressive, secular, liberal agenda in Washington and perhaps also because they sense an opening in the battle, a sudden weakness in the lines of the secularists -- some activists decided that the time was right to try to reshape the history that children in public schools study. Succeeding at this would help them toward their ultimate goal of reshaping American society. As Cynthia Dunbar, another Christian activist on the Texas board, put it, “The philosophy of the classroom in one generation will be the philosophy of the government in the next.”

"But it(reality) is nothing accessible to you or I...."

Can't be touched, seen, smelt, or tasted? Doesn't speak when spoken to? Must be accepted as a matter of faith? Our experiments measure just that ineffable it, but no other thing, trust us?

Not for the first time, I wonder where you get off calling anyone else a dimwit. You're not even able to tell when you've turned ironic. But I will send you a card at your graduation. Social Work, was it?

Religion is not.

#84 | Posted by donnerboy at 2010-06-16 02:21 PM | Reply | Flag: FAIL

"Yup, nothing going on Texas...."

You have a paranoid system. I'm not sure whether I make you worse by denying the reality of what you think you see. At least you're not into imagining cannibal armies.

"The Word of God...."

You can't even get Christianity right, something as easy to do as attending a few churches and being sociable. Why should anyone take you seriously?

"council of Nicene"

Whatever that was.

David Barton is a Liar for Jesus and a Dominionist and a Texan.

The other nonacademic expert, David Barton, is the nationally known leader of WallBuilders, which describes itself as dedicated to “presenting America's forgotten history and heroes, with an emphasis on our moral, religious and constitutional heritage.” Barton has written and lectured on the First Amendment and against separation of church and state. He is a controversial figure who has argued that the U.S. income tax and the capital-gains tax should be abolished because they violate Scripture (for the Bible says, in Barton's reading, “the more profit you make the more you are rewarded”) and who pushes a Christianity-first rhetoric. When the U.S. Senate invited a Hindu leader to open a 2007 session with a prayer, he objected, saying: “In Hindu [sic], you have not one God, but many, many, many, many, many gods. And certainly that was never in the minds of those who did the Constitution, did the Declaration when they talked about Creator.”

In his recommendations to the Texas school board, Barton wrote that students should be taught the following principles which, in his reading, derive directly from the Declaration of Independence: “1. There is a fixed moral law derived from God and nature. 2. There is a Creator. 3. The Creator gives to man certain unalienable rights. 4. Government exists primarily to protect God-given rights to every individual. 5. Below God-given rights and moral laws, government is directed by the consent of the governed.”

Science is self correcting.

Religion is not.

Mostly agreed.

Does religion evolve morally?

Yes, it certainly can and does on occasion.

Fer example we are no longer supposed to take the slavery admonishments and wife beating instructions in the Bible seriously anymore.

That noted, while Religion used to be ahead of the morality curve (see: fighting against slavery or for civil rights) it is now behind the curve (see: fighting against reproductive rights and gay marriage).

A lot of the Islamic world seems rooted in the 14th century and much of the Catholic Church seems rooted in the 18th.

It's the secular and scientific worlds that are dragging the religions of the world kicking and screaming in to the light of a new and better day not the reverse.

K?

Be Well.

I'm not sure whether I make you worse by denying the reality of what you think you see. At least you're not into imagining cannibal armies.

It is you that is in denial...And I am more into cannabis armies.

Like I've said, you've turned over a few rocks. Your tone reminds me of the Reds under the Bed stuff I grew up with. Many people take as little data as you seem to have and manage to turn it into some vast conspiracy. But you laugh at them. Why be surprised when others laugh at you?

A lot of the Islamic world seems rooted in the 14th century and much of the Catholic Church seems rooted in the 18th.

what customs of the Catholic Church, specifically, are rooted in the 18th century?

You do understand that, on these very pages, we've had persons soberly warning us about the Illuminati?

"council of Nicene"

Whatever that was.

Remember the Council of Niceville?

Man, that was a crazy weekend!

Good times, good times.

Be Well.

The council of Nicene comes to mind - as does Vatican II.

But please continue to blow smoke out your ass.

#104 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum

Religion does not correct itself. It is, as Spud points out, dragged kicking and screaming in to the light by secular science. You God is a God of the Gaps. As the "gaps" become understood by men then the "Church" moves the goalpost just a little.

And do you really consider the Council of Nicaea an example of "self correction"??? It was more of an attempt for the "Church" to consolidate it's power over the sheep. It was to get rid of heretical and dangerous thoughts and forms of Christianity that were at odds with the more powerful bishops and church leaders.

One of the projects undertaken by the Council was the creation of a Creed, a declaration and summary of the Christian faith. Several creeds were already in existence; many creeds were acceptable to the members of the council, including Arius. From earliest times, various creeds served as a means of identification for Christians, as a means of inclusion and recognition, especially at baptism.

They all needed to make up their collective minds and get the "story" straight. It was a power play.

They also had to hash out whether Jesus was divine or whether he was a human. Basically, they were saying that Jesus was God, and God's son, not a creation of God. That was always in doubt from day 1 (AD) and caused many riffs in the church.

Can't see how they did any actual "self correcting" though.

"Remember the Council of Niceville?"

You do understand that, on these very pages, we've had persons soberly warning us about the Illuminati?

#113 | Posted by Zed

Translation- "Crazy people have been here! ... therefore you are crazy too."

Great logic ya got there Zeddy.

how do you know that that truth is absolutely true?

By realizing a provisional answer will suffice for the time being.

Of course, there are many accepted truths... the sun does rise from the east... the ski IS blue... the moon IS made of cheese... but then the horizons keep expanding all the time.

#76 | Posted by Tosser at 2010-06-16 12:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

On what basis is your realization that a provisional answer will suffice temporarily? If not true, you would be holding an untruth provisionally.

And, the sun neither physically rises or sets; the earth's rotation merely gives it the appearance of doing so from an earthbound perspective.

The sky only appears blue when sunlight strikes water vapor at a particular range of angles. It appears red at lower sun angles striking dust and other particulates.

Nice try though.

"The sky only appears blue when sunlight strikes water vapor at a particular range of angles."

#118 | Posted by MACV1972 at 2010-06-16 05:29 PM | Reply | Flag: bullshit

The sky is blue due to Rayleigh scattering you ignorant shit.

Nice try though.

The truth is true because
"Thy word is truth"

Let God be true and every man a liar"

So, if it is in the Bible it is true
and if it is from men it is false every time if you take it out far enough.

interesting that the word can be taken out as far as you want and it is still true.

Provisional explanations being true are good examples of man made religion, like evolution

My high-school Bilogy text has many pictures of evolution and every one has been disproved and renounced including neanderthal and lucy.

so again

Man is a liar
God is true, and it will always be.

So to see if a man is speaking the truth, just compare him to the
Bible, and you have your answer.

So when some man says "we created ourselves" I just look in Psalms where it says.
"It is God who has made us, and not we ourselves."

So I see that man is a liar.

"QUID EST VERITAS?"

"EST VIR QUI ADEST"

And what is truth?
Is truth unchanging law?
We both have truths.
Are mine the same as yours?

~Pilate (From JCS)

Be Well.

The sky is blue due to Rayleigh scattering you ignorant shit.

wikipedia is great isn't it?

what customs of the Catholic Church, specifically, are rooted in the 18th century?

Patriarchal nonsense that disallows women from serving as Priests.

Homophobic nonsense that teaches that hate as a virtue.

An anti-scientific bias that has existed since Galileo's head was put on the block.

An anti education bias in terms of sexual education.

An anti common sense bias in terms of opposing contraception on specious moral grounds.

There's others but chew on those fer a bit first.

Be Well.

Wow, since you are so knowledgable about raleigh scattering can you tell me how a photon travels through the physical universe?
is electromagnetic, physical, particle?

Could you explain clearly how it can be all three?
as it moves is it physical displacement, recreation, transportation?

and where is the energy stored in this photo?

What is actually vibrating? frequency of what?

how does it interact with electron by magnetic coupling?

I would love to know a little more about light since scientists cannot even begin to explain this, you are pretty wise...

Lets hear it.

Ahhh yes, the Mullet Festival.

* clicks link *

Holy guacamole, Zatman!

Spud was only keeding but that link was serious.

DON'T tell the blog-pope about that or he could end up re-growing his old mullet back and entering the competition and nobody wants to see THAT.

Damn shame about the Gulf Coast.

Seriously, that place used to be cool beanz.

Now it's in for a world of hurt.

* deep sigh *

Take care, swordsman.

Be Well.

Spud,

I have to go but Galileo was not from the 18th century and neither is any of that other stuff.

Those assertions are true for the most part but I was asking (specifically again) what any of that had to do with the 18th century.

I learned from my father that when people call others ignorant, it is because they totally undderstand ignorance and see themselves in it that is how they recognize it.

And only an expert in producing offal would recognize it.

"Your God is the god of the gaps...."

Just a line you picked up somewhere. And I do know that somewhere. Merely another example of a hot-house imagination making pronouncements. When you have a better grasp on what your neighbors are doing, come tell us about God.

#120 | POSTED BY RICHARDRHINE
"So, if it is in the Bible it is true
and if it is from men it is false every time if you take it out far enough."

Richard, men WROTE the Bible.

#121 | POSTED BY RICHARDRHINE

Psalms???
You're relying on poetry???
Poetry written supposedly by the King of Israel circa 1000BC???

"it is because they totally undderstand ignorance"

Priceless.

"It was a power play (Nicea)...."

Uh, so you really don't not any paranoid theme in your posts? Want to point me to a reputable historian who thinks what you think about Nicea? If one or two can't be found, or if those that are managed to be found haven't already been picked apart by their peers, would it be time for some self-correction?

I was asking (specifically again) what any of that had to do with the 18th century.

It wasn't a specific reference it was a comparative one.

Spud sed the worst parts of the Islamic world were rooted in the 14th Century and the RCC seemed rooted in the 18th in order to show how comparatively behind the curve they both are in terms of moral evolution relative to the secular world.

Which is to say that they're are both bad but that one is demonstrably worse and neither are as good as the so-called "morality free" secular community.

K?

Be Well.

Wow.
you agree men wrote down what they were told then?

Secretary of the NOBEL LAUREATE comitee just wrote down what she was told and she typed it and sent the letter.

You still have a nobel even though a woman wrote it

God himself told Moses everything about Job and he wrote it down.

So you don't take dictation seriously?

LOL

Also you forget one major point here, man did not write down everything.

the ten commandments HE WROTE DOWN that is the part he directly wrote down

I take it serious.

If you recieved a letter from the draft board, typed by a secretary, lets see you ignore it because a woman typed it...

LOL

You have so much misunderstanding about the Bible and it is the book that your future life will be judged by
may I make a suggestion?

It is much smaller than a steven king novel

why dont you sit down and read through the new testament just one time?

It would be the most imprtant thing you could do.
If you do not do it, you will die in your sins and it will be over while the faithful travel the infinite galaxie for eternity. What a loss.

"Why don't you sit down and read through the New Testament just one time.....?"

Too threatening. Would deflate that whole conspiracy thing.

Patriarchal nonsense that disallows women from serving as Priests.

Homophobic nonsense that teaches that hate as a virtue.

An anti-scientific bias that has existed since Galileo's head was put on the block.

An anti education bias in terms of sexual education.

An anti common sense bias in terms of opposing contraception on specious moral grounds.

The Popetato has apparently spoken ex cathedra

"An anti-scientific bias....."

I'm not Catholic. But I do note that the Catholic Church lists "2001" as one of the twenty best films ever made. And, guess what? They're right.

"The Popetato has apparently spoken ex cathedra"

Everything he said was true, though.

"Everything he said was true, though....."

2001......

The Popetato

Do those slippers come in any other color than red?

Seriously, Spud'd feel like freaking Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz wearing those.

Also if you got a hat that's maybe a little less phallic.

Spud's first Popetato declaration?

Good Friday will now become Casual Good Friday.

All the same thoughtful worship but now with casual jeans wearing attitude fer extra comfort!

So let it be written.

So let it be done.

Be Well.

"Your God is the god of the gaps...."

Just a line you picked up somewhere.

just like your "lines" which probably originate in the Bible?...I didn't invent this game I walked into the middle of it...just like you. But, there are many before me who have come to the same realization.

When you have a better grasp on what your neighbors are doing,...

I am not my neighbors keeper...and what do they have to do with the fact that there is a belief system out there (in Texas and elsewhere) that professes that there is NO wall of separation between Church and State and that the founders intended America to be a Christian nation.

So when some man says "we created ourselves"...

name a (credible) Man that says "we created ourselves"

"I didn't invent this game....'

You are much too modest.

Big typo on the Council on Nicea (Nicene Creed). Of course those who pointed it out will forgive in the true spirit of liberal open-mindedness. Right?

Religion is self correcting to a point. You cannot make a blanket statement that religion never self corrects. The pope modifies the Catholic "religion" all the time.

I see the crusades finally stopped also. Good thing too. Female alter servers?

" But I do note that the Catholic Church lists "2001" as one of the twenty best films ever made. And, guess what? They're right."

I really don't care what this cult group known as the "Catholic Church" thinks about films. Not any more than a ranking of films by Scientologists.

"I am not my neighbor's keeper...."

Doesn't keep you from saying and attributing all manner of things about them. I said you don't understand Christianity. You don't. I said that could be cured by going to few church dinners (usually the first Sunday of each month, and they'll treat). You won't.

It's analogous to refusing to visit a library. You are in love with what you think you know. I hope you fall in love with a Baptist. That would be elegant proof of God.

Well, NULLIFIDIAN----If you're not impressed by someone's good taste in cinema, we have much less in common than I thought.

Uh, so you really don't not any paranoid theme in your posts?

no... but I could see how you would not want your belief system questioned. But, don't mistake being aware of these things the same as "being paranoid".

Why was there a Council of Nicaea? The sources are clear that the Emperor Constantine called the council in order to bring an end to dissension within the church.

Hmmm bringing an end to dissension....yeah, we can't have that!

"typo"

I hate to break this to you but that wasn't a typo.

Not that it matters.

Jesus never existed.

Religion is all bunk.

There is no god.

It's decades too late to save the Earth.

Only those who are sufficiently competent to become spacefaring, first on Spaceship Earth for a few thousand more years, and then onward to the stars, will survive.

Yuma Arizona is at 200 MSL these days.

At the present rate of sea level rise, which will increase exponentially, Yuma will be a surf center in at the very most 6660 years.

"And you'll never hear surf music again."
~Hendrix

I love good cinema. And I like "2001: A Space Odyssey". So what? Even a blind squirrel--the Catholic Church--finds a nut from time to time.

Doesn't keep you from saying and attributing all manner of things about them. I said you don't understand Christianity. You don't. I said that could be cured by going to few church dinners (usually the first Sunday of each month, and they'll treat). You won't.

It's analogous to refusing to visit a library. You are in love with what you think you know.

And yer an idiot. I am making this up? I am not that good. I already told you I have been to "church" hundreds of times. My son is a pastor. Makes no difference. Not impressed with sheep.

I probably understand Christianity better than most Christians. I only "attribute" to them what they say. I posted several quotes and articles none of which you can respond to. You asked me for proof that there were "Dominionists" in Texas. I showed you there are. They are all over. You have nothing to say about that. All you can do is try and insult the messenger...So have at it. It is very "Christian" of you.

You can lead a horse to water....

"No...."

Iim sorry, DONNERBOY----The cure to your fey dreams about the Council of Nicea is just as easy a reading the New Testament. How you can get an authoritarian text out of a Man who was crucified for being an Enemy of the State (the same one still in existence at the the time of Nicea) is beyond me.

"I'm making this up....?"

Exaggerating.

"I only attribute to them what they say....."

You "attribute" what you choose to, and what you choose to reflects your tastes and how you think. You just need to get out more. A lot more.

"How very Christian of you....."

I have to agree with you on this point. Like a Scottish terrier, you will never understand being whipped. Unlike said terrier, you will also never permit yourself to be loved.

To sum it up----You're just one poor excuse for a pet.

I really don't care what this cult group known as the "Catholic Church" thinks about films. Not any more than a ranking of films by Scientologists.

Scientologists?

Number one movie of all time?

Battleship Earth!

Yeah, the Scientologists list would prolly be a Tom Cruise/ John Travolta/ Will Smith Film Fest.

Do Not Want.

Seriously, have a hard time coughing up the dough to see those guys on the big screen these days knowing that in some small way Spud's contributing to an odious cult.

* Blech *

Be Well.

"I poseted several quotes and articles, none of which you can respond to...."

Surely you have to know me better than that. Interesting that the idea that they are not worth anyone's time to respond to never entered your mind.

"A blind squirrel...."

Watches few movies.

"I'm making this up....?"

Exaggerating.

#154 | Posted by Zed

Wake up Zed... I am NOT exaggerating...not one little bit.

These people have said exactly these things that I have quoted and more. They would if they had the power do exactly as they said they would do...and more.

This is a quote from the New York Times...NOT ME!

Ask Christian activists what they really want -- what the goal is behind the effort to bring Christianity into American history -- and they say they merely want “the truth.” “The main thing I'm looking for as a state board member is to make sure we have good standards,” Don McLeroy said. But the actual ambition is vast. Americans tell pollsters they support separation of church and state, but then again 65 percent of respondents to a 2007 survey by the First Amendment Center agreed with the statement that “the nation's founders intended the United States to be a Christian nation,” and 55 percent said they believed the Constitution actually established the country as a Christian nation. The Christian activists are aware of such statistics and want to build on them, as Dunbar made clear. She told me she looks to John Jay's statement that it is the duty of the people “of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers” and has herself called for a preference for selecting Christians for positions of leadership.

Dunbar's book lays out the goal: using courts and public schools to fuse Christianity into the nation's founding. It may be unlikely that it will be attained any time soon, in which case the seeding of Texas' history-textbook guidelines with “Christian nation” concepts may be mostly symbolic. But symbols can accumulate weight over time, and the Christian activists are in it for the long haul. Some observers say that over time their effort could have far-reaching consequences. “The more you can associate Christianity with the founding, the more you can sway the future Supreme Court,” Martin Marty says. “That is what Pat Robertson was about years ago. Establish the founders as Christians, and you have it made.”

Interesting that the idea that they are not worth anyone's time to respond to never entered your mind.

#158 | Posted by Zed

of course not... that is why you keep bringing it up.

"Not a little bit....."

Of course you are. You've found a few fanatics. I sometimes consider you to be one. I know no persons and have met no persons like you describe. I'm sure I can find them on the internet, though. I wonder what else I could find?

"This is what the neighbor's say...."

You're homework assignment is to tell us all tomorrow at least five ways in which your argument is dishonest.

You're homework assignment is to tell us all tomorrow at least five ways in which your argument is dishonest.

#163 | Posted by Zed

and your homework assignment is to read something besides the bible.

DONNERBOY----If you can't see the holes in what you're arguing and how you're arguing it-----There's probably not a lot that can be done for you.

One final note----I don't meet any "sheep" at church. They're hard-working, intelligent, independent men and women. Many of them are better educated than you are. Get a grip.

That is one of the top ten movies ever made.

x

#151 | Posted by eks

Perhaps. Among American-made movies. There are a lot of great films out there by Yasujiro Ozu, Kurosawa, Zhang Yimou, etc.

Ah yes, the old "we're smarter than you" troll. Tired, uninspired, and soon to be retired.

Me, I like RAN and THRONE OF BLOOD.

And, BARRY LYNDON was better than 2001.

" RAN and THRONE OF BLOOD."

Kurosawa's "Seven Samurai" is definitely one of the top 10 films ever made.

What? No Rashomon...?

"if it is in the Bible it is true"

Riiiiiiiiiight.

Genesis 5:17
And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years.

"RAN and THRONE OF BLOOD."

Kurosawa's "Seven Samurai"

Good choices.

Spud's pick is Bladerunner.

Watched that thing like a hundred times.

S'rsly good movie.

Tyrell: Would you... like to be upgraded?
Batty: I had in mind something a little more radical.
Tyrell: What... what seems to be the problem?
Batty: Death.
Tyrell: Death, ah, well that's a little out of my jurisdiction. You...
Batty: I WANT MORE LIFE, FUCKER!

Be Well.

/And with THAT Spud was gone "like tears in rain"
stage left.

RE:170 - Tampopo, was better...... :)

One final note----I don't meet any "sheep" at church. They're hard-working, intelligent, independent men and women. Many of them are better educated than you are. Get a grip.

Baaaa ram you, baaaaa ram you.... to your breed be true....BAAAA Ram You!

And now for a brief musical interlude from a classic Texas band from San Antonio.

This is a paragraph.

" Tampopo, was better...... :)"

Juzo Itami, director of Tampopo, is certainly in the same class. A Taxing Woman, The Funeral, etc. are other great movies directed by him.

Many of them are better educated than you are. Get a grip.

#165 | Posted by Zed at 2010-06-16 06:59 PM | Reply | Flag: JUDGMENTAL; UNCHRISTIAN-LIKE

Everything he said was true, though.

Positions and arguments yes (I assume), truth? Well that depends upon one's position and arguments.

Interestingly, Null, I recall you once saying that all morality is relative. If one believes so, it is difficult to argue the absolute truth of any moral position--Spud's, the Church's or yours.

Perhaps I am wrong in recalling that. If so, mea culpa.

Seriously, Spud'd feel like freaking Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz wearing those.

There's no place like Rome.

"There's no place like Rome."

#179 | Posted by Grendel at 2010-06-16 09:13 PM | Reply | Flag: never been there

It's a shithole for morons.

Venice is cool if you're stinking rich.

Como is overpriced even if you're stinking rich.

Pisa is a tourist trap.

Italy sucks.

"Interestingly, Null, I recall you once saying that all morality is relative. "

Not quite. I have said morality evolves. Human communities discovered, through trial and error, that it was a competitive advantage to make taboo certain behaviors, such as murder, theft, incest, etc., within their own tribe. Murdering outsiders, of course, was perfectly acceptable. For a while. After that came things like outlawing slavery. And then giving women the right to vote. And then allowing blacks to sit at lunch counters. And then various declarations of human rights by international organizations. If you want to call the clearly observable and documented facts of human social evolution "relativism", fine.

"Italy sucks."

Try Siena.

Or Montalcino, Montepulciano, Pienza, Montereggione, or Lucca.

"Try Siena. "

Been there.

But getting back to the point, Grendel, everything he said was true. It's undeniable the bias against science Christianity has displayed, and not just because of examples like Galileo and Giordano Bruno. The patriarchal nature of Christianity is an obvious human projection, right down to calling the supreme deity "Father". And the patriarchal, sexist nature is quite obvious in insisting that Mary must be a virgin.

The whole fucking Christian story is incredible and ludicrous. It's amazes me that anybody in the year 2010 can believe in such a preposterous tale filled with angels and devils and an invisible superman. Voodoo makes more sense.

"Italy sucks."

You ordered the wrong stuff off the menu.

"You ordered the wrong stuff off the menu."

I learned how to pronounce bruschetta.
And I have never had any to compare with Rome's.

The risotto, on the other hand, is better here.

"I learned how to pronounce bruschetta."

Yeah, it's not hard to pronounce at all: garlic bread.

Galileo didn't really drop balls from the Tower of Pisa.

x

Can't be touched, seen, smelt, or tasted? Doesn't speak when spoken to? Must be accepted as a matter of faith?

It's called a "concept," dumbfuck.

Our experiments measure just that ineffable it, but no other thing, trust us?

Experiments give you a description of reality. That description is invariably incomplete because of limitations in the experiment itelf or the way the data is analyzed. What about this is beyond your ability to understand?

Not for the first time, I wonder where you get off calling anyone else a dimwit.

Hmm... let me think. Probably when that "someone else" demonstrates a profound lack of knowledge yet keeps on talking/posting. Just as you regularly do. You're too dull to know when it would be prudent to remain silent.

I will send you a card at your graduation. Social Work, was it?

Nice try. Biochemistry and microbiology. And you're a little late.

But please, keep acting like your boundless ignorance has enabled you to somehow see the truth of the universe through the lens of some ancient esoteric garbage. If not for people like me, people like you would still be drilling holes into schizophrenics to let the demons out.

And the patriarchal, sexist nature is quite obvious in insisting that Mary must be a virgin.

The early Christian church fathers had to do something to neuter the Goddess and incorporate her into their religion, so they turned her into a human virgin. Case closed.

what is wrong with living 875 years?

On tar trek Q (who isnt real) lived millions of years and no problem

LOL

Bible is true
their life span shortened as soon as they ate meat.
This shorted out the self repair mechanism and they started to age much quicker.

2001 is fiction
it cant happen
wont happen
will never happen

It assumes a universe with other space traveling creatures, there is no such thing, man is the only species who sinned.

All the rest travel by thought, like angels or celestial beings.
dont need obelisks and garbage that breaks down.

just a matter of stepping through the veil into heavenly space, light has no speed limit there.

On what basis is your realization that a provisional answer will suffice temporarily?

If it gives the same result everytime, it serves for the time being.

The very essence of science is "repeatability".

If your peers can't repeat your experiment and get the same result, then your science was flawed.

particles = appendages (of the noodly variety).

If your peers can't repeat your experiment and get the same result, then your science was flawed.

You mean like "climate science". lol!

So what, so do I.

"Biochemistry and microbiology....."

Sorry, don't believe it. You just don't put it across. Never have.

Sorry, don't believe it.

It wouldn't be the first time your beliefs have no basis in reality.

You just don't put it across.

Ah, so some moronic bible-thumping clod thinks he can pick out the biologists from a crowd of anonymous internet denizens? What a riot.

Got your goat did, I? My goodness you're thinned-skinned. You'd think that with all those dumfucks and dimwits you throw out you'd be innured to any sort of response.

Need to correct that before you start your job search. Employers like an applicant to project stability.

Got your goat did, I?

No, you didn't.

Bible-thumpers leave a trail of slime and nobody likes slime on their hands.

That is all it was. You tried to "slime" him and he wasn't amused. Quite a normal reaction to a distasteful creature.

"No you didn't...."

Just curious how you would know. Live with him or something?

"You tried to slime him and he wasn't amused...."

If there's anything known about the strange little man you've decided to be the White Knight concerning, it's that he's only really happy when sliming someone else.

As late as 1770 many religious Americans still felt that, since thunder and lightning were tokens of the divine displeasure, it was impiety to prevent their doing their full work. It took a few decades for the devout to abandon their religious prejudices regarding the use of the lightning rod, but eventually it was demonstrated to all but the most dense that both the "vengeance of God" and the "Prince of the Power of the Air" were forced to retreat before the lightning-rod of a heretic.
- A. D. White, A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology & E.T.B.

____________________________

Churches in Germany shunned Franklin's new invention for three decades, during which time some 400 church towers were damaged by lightning and 120 bell ringers killed. In one church a bolt of lightning struck the tower and melted the bell, electrocuted the priest, deprived a parishioner of her sensibilities and destroyed a painting of the Savior. Church towers, being the highest structures in a village, are commonly struck by lightning, while brothels and saloons next door escape untouched.
- William Deitz, Creation/Evolution Satiricon

Memo to self: Avoid churches, frequent brothels and saloons.

Live with him or something?

Is he a blonde woman? No? So the question doesn't arise.

Please keep mind out of gutter. That too is part of science... how to float above gutter without going in.

I'm sorry, you're interested in talking to me why?

Did anyone hear some hot gas escaping?

No?

Must be my imagination....

Hey, God has infinite particles.
particles are just congealed energy and there are infinite way to congeal it
they are wasting their money, they will never unify the field with a theory because the Bible says it is way more than theory
You cannot figure out God with a super collider, he will always give you more particle to astound you

have fun with your toy, it won't do any good there was no big bang there was no self creation

the self existant one created the univers infinite in size, and it will remain forever by his word

our job is to enjoy every part of it, study it and praise Gods name.

I personally like dogs and cats, you can have a pet horse, and we will all travel infinite distances soon without rocket in real bocies not pagan spirits.

but if yo dont want to believe then dont read your bible if you want guaranteed life, read and believe the Bible

God speaks, and if you agree you live
if you disagree you will perish in hate and four letter words.

Id rather be nice and live forever helping others'

If there's anything known about the strange little man you've decided to be the White Knight concerning, it's that he's only really happy when sliming someone else.

#201 | Posted by Zed | Flag: IRONY

Give up the bigotry
gibve up the hate
you have been hypnotized to hate the only way of escape, and you will be sorry later.

But just give up the hypnosis, wake up.
The flowers are tokens of love, the birds in the morning are preprogrammed for joy
each animal always make another animal of exactly the same kind and so it will be and remain.

You have to give up being mean, swearing, self indulgencs and hate

that is not too big a price.

wwhat you get in return i peace and love and infinite power to do good for other

great trade.

Wow.

ONE physicist refers to the Higgs Boson as the "god" particle, the media picks up the name and runs with it,, and suddenly all the theists understand particle physicists better than those doing the research? What a joke!

The only thing worse than the gross exaggerations and outright misunderstandings of an untrained journalist writing about science is some fundo who spews incessantly about some millennia-old rag -- like the Bilebull.

it's a shame that these superstitious lunatics aren't being fed to the lions any more. Imagine what we'd know now if it weren't for centuries' worth of suppression of science by the true believers at the behest of gaaawuhhhd.

"have fun with your toy, it won't do any good there was no big bang there was no self creation
the self existant one created the univers infinite in size, and it will remain forever by his word"

doesn't this set up a nasty regress - a logical snafu hopelessly and infinitely more convoluted than big bang theory? what gave rise the "existant one"? Imagination, magical thinking, ignorance, or all of the above?

the fairy tale was fine and even served an explanatory purpose thousands of years ago; it also was (and still is) great for giving license to the holiest of the holy to massacre heathens who give daily praise to a different invisible imaginary sky daddy. But I digress.

i simply cannot identify with the nonthinking mindset that accepts as the highest possible truth an unwaveringly errant millennia-old document written to scare and control primitive people.

We're much more likely to get even a fleeting glimpse into the nature of reality through rigorous experimentation than by magically waving a hand and muttering, "gawuhhhd done did it, a-yup!"

God May Have Multiple Particles

Proof that the olde bastard has Multiple Personality Disorder....

"It's a shame all these superstitious old lunatics aren't fed to the lions anymore...."

That's the kind of world you want? What? Lynching's too quick?

"Doesn't this set up some nasty regress...."

Not that you want to hear from someone you apparently would enjoy being torn limb from limb by a wild animal, but I've listened to dozens of the allegedly scientifically minded describe this same nasty regress and assert that they're entirely comfortable with it, provided they and science are the ones puttinng the idea forward.

#202 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2010-06-17 10:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

Kind of disproves the whole "religion does not self correct" theory though ZAT. Do churches still refrain from placing lightning rods on their steeples? Do priests still maintain that lightning and thunder are a result of an upset God?

Religion and the DR do not mix.

Rome is awesome. ZAT (the blind masseur) needs to use a seeing eye dog on his next visit.

#202 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2010-06-17 10:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

Kind of disproves the whole "religion does not self correct" theory though ZAT. Do churches still refrain from placing lightning rods on their steeples? Do priests still maintain that lightning and thunder are a result of an upset God?

The church did not correct itself... the correction was forced upon it by the "outside" world which was the result of a scientific advance and common sense.

"Do churches still refrain from placing lightning rods on their steeples?"

Apparently they refrain from putting lightning rods on their jeebus statues.

"Rome is awesome. "

"Rome is awesome."

Unless you're driving.

To this day, whenever traffic gets tense, I remind myself I drove through Rome during rush hour. I can take anything after that.

" The Vatican sucks "

The vatican is beautiful. I saw the Pieta before the madman smashed its nose.

"The correction was forced upon it by the outside world....."

You mean, the guys who would enjoy seeing Christians eaten by lions? Those folks? By my count, there's two of them just on this thread.

DANFORTH

A friend describes Rome as having 'Jazz Driving & Parking'.

The church did not correct itself... the correction was forced upon it by the "outside" world which was the result of a scientific advance and common sense.

#216 | Posted by donnerboy at 2010-06-17 01:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, unless the church has its own epiphany, they can't self correct? Are you saying that the government or some other entity forced the church to stop teaching that lightning and thunder was a result of God's anger?

So when a non-scientist makes a discovery affecting involving "science", which occurs, then science is not self correcting either?

I thought self correcting was correcting "ones" own mistakes? If someone points out the mistake to you and you stop repeating the behavior, that doesn't count?

Your definition seems a bit unreasonable donner. You blame religion for not being "self correcting" but when they change their teachings to match some scientific discovery outside of their own "research" you don't give them credit for it? Methinks you are very biased. But of course you are.

'Jazz Driving & Parking'

The concept of "lanes" is nothing more than a serving suggestion.

I thought self correcting was correcting "ones" own mistakes? If someone points out the mistake to you and you stop repeating the behavior, that doesn't count?

Your definition seems a bit unreasonable donner. You blame religion for not being "self correcting" but when they change their teachings to match some scientific discovery outside of their own "research" you don't give them credit for it? Methinks you are very biased. But of course you are.

#223 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum

Sorry Unum- being forced to change after many decades by outside forces does not count as "self correcting". If I send you to jail for your behavior and you don't do it anymore is that "self-correcting"? No it is not. Just as the Vatican is now being forced to change once again by pressures from the secular world regarding it's practices of priests molesting its young boys that is not "self-correcting". Church doctrine should have corrected itself. Why are they changing now?

The Church could have corrected itself long ago but it did not. It waited until it HAD to. It is being forced to. Do yo see the difference?

In science we have a theory. We experiment and experiment until we can conclusively prove that theory is correct or under scientific peer review we determine that theory is not correct we change that theory. Can you give me an example of a scientific theory that has been corrected by the pressure from the "church"? No? But, I can give you many examples of church "doctrine" that has be changed due to pressure from "science".

So, unless the church has its own epiphany, they can't self correct?

That is correct! If the "Word of God" (the bible) was truly the Word of a God that created the Universe it would never need to be corrected. IT would be Timelessly correct.

#225 | Posted by donnerboy at 2010-06-17 02:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

How did "science" force the church again? When science "discovered" something, the church changed its teachings. I don't see how this is not "self correcting".

The jail comparison is not valid. Is the church "forced" to teach using science? No. (several religions still teach lessons conflicting with known science and still have members and are not forced by government or science to change)

Are you forced to obey laws to remain a part of society? Yes. (caught and convicted you go to jail unless you escape - involuntary behavior change). See the difference? The church is not obligated to acknowledge any scientific discovery - it is purely voluntary - therefore they self correct.

They realized that something disagreed with the historical interpretation of weather events and revised teachings to reflect such.

In Italy, the pedestrian NEVER makes eye contact with a driver when crossing the street. Unlike America, that act means that the pedestrian is aware of the driver and is yielding right of way. That lesson almost cost me my life.

x

#226 | Posted by donnerboy at 2010-06-17 02:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Does the bible state that lightning and thunder are the result of an angry God?

Please let us know what "facts" in the Bible have been disproven by science.

As stated, science provides reasons for responses to repeated actions. Can you say repeat the floods associated with Noah? If you can't does that mean it was physically impossible to have occured? You, as a scientist(?) know that you can't. Water into wine? You can prove you or I can't do it. Walking on water? Same thing. Any number of "miracles".

And yes, to the devil's advocate it all seems very convienient.

Is the church "forced" to teach using science?

Yes. Sometimes it takes decades but it is "forced" to conform to new advances in Science. You and both know it would NOT change if not for advances in science and advances in Man's understanding of how the Universe really works. Hence the phrase "The God of the Gaps".

Does the sun "rise" in the East or is the Earth revolving in space. Or better yet is the Earth the Center of the Universe or is it just a speck of dust circling some mediocre sun in a Vast Cosmos?

Does the bible state that lightning and thunder are the result of an angry God?

umm Well, not sure how "angry" He is (isn't that a Human emotion?)but yes...And isn't it is embarrassing when Christians don't even know their own dogma? There is even a link to that dogma on this page!

"He covers His hands with the lightning, And commands it to strike the mark"

so tell me...why DOES God hate the Jesus statue? He blasted it on purpose!

Ben Franklin's life-saving invention, the lightning rod, was condemned by many Christians as an insult to Almighty God, or at least, to his aim. Because the Bible says God "sends forth lightnings...He covers His hands with the lightning. And commands it to strike the mark. Its noise declares His presence?Under the whole heaven He lets it loose, And His lightning to the ends of the earth... Whether for correction, or for His world, Or for loving kindness, He causes it to happen." [Job 36:27-33 & 37:1-13 & 38:35]

Can you say repeat the floods associated with Noah? If you can't does that mean it was physically impossible to have occured? You, as a scientist(?) know that you can't. Water into wine? You can prove you or I can't do it. Walking on water? Same thing. Any number of "miracles".

"miracles" by their nature cannot be repeated by science. That is why they are called "miracles".

There is no evidence that any of these "miracles" ever occurred.

Please let us know what "facts" in the Bible have been disproven by science.

ok Let's start at the "beginning".

Genesis.

My God has multiple tentacles.

You apasta-ate!

"You mean, the guys who would enjoy seeing Christians eaten by lions? Those folks? By my count, there's two of them just on this thread.
#221 | Posted by Zed"

Not you! Sick! Maybe your wife....