What is amazing is that the reintegration process has the Hochs using the same brainwashing techniques against the other parent!

This appears to not be the correct method of resolution--they need mediation or counseling with both the parents and the kids together.

And Gardner is a pedophile enabler kind of guy--doesn't care anyway. Where the ends justifies the means--damn all the carnage that comes later. And he kills himself with a steak knife??

here is a disease that most people can claim and justify anything: stupid.

I've experienced it first hand and know a number of parents who have had their kids turned against them by bitter ex spouses. PAS is real. Kids are impressionable and are often likely to be convinced by the parent that they live with that the other is somehow evil.

I only recently reestablished a (great) relationship with my 22 year old daughter who I hadn't seen for 6 years. She had been convinced by her mother that I had sexually molested her when she was 6. She had dreams of being raped by a mysterious man, the whole works.

Fortunately earlier this year because of a crisis with her younger sister she decided to test the waters and see me. It was great almost instantly. We now see each other frequently, talk on the phone a lot and have a wonderful relationship. Last week for the first time since she was 15 years old she walked up to me and put her arms around me and said she loved me.

Just a few years ago she was making statements to mental health professionals that I had beat her and raped her.

It is true that some abusers will claim PAS when their kids are truly afraid to see them. It is also true that vindictive ex's will (successfully) turn kids against the other parent. These situations are incredibly tough to untangle...and tragic either way.

Unfortunately, rather than working with trying to support families, there are those who see a PAS diagnosis as a threat to the benefits of sole custody and are working to keep kids from one of the parents (usually the dad). I have seen too many cases up close and personal in my parents group (both men and women) to agree that it's false.

"I only recently reestablished a (great) relationship with my 22 year old daughter "

That is WONDERFUL!!!! I'm so happy to hear that! You must be so thrilled!

We need to catch up, apparently!!! : )

You went through a horrible time DC and I'm glad it's over!

I never understood why ex's feel such a need for revenge. It's over. It's done. Move on.

And NEVER...NEVER...should a child be used as a weapon!!

People who do that will have to answer for it one day.

The only ones that do this crap are the fat wimmin that get kicked to the curb.
I know 3 couples that this has happened to. The seahag uses the kids for ammunition..Not giving one shit about the affect it has.

Remember this:

Once a victim - always a victim.

i have hdtv

more junk from hope4retards.

#3 | Posted by DCinMA

Incredible story there DC.

The words for your ex are not for print.

The US Courts are so antagonistic and fouled by money that NO Family Dispute should be settled within its walls, except criminal violence. Its extremely damaging to any children that these greedfuckers claim to be concerned about. The most damage is the result of the animosity and poverty Courts create in the parents. Truth is they have no idea what they're doing, except when it comes to taking your money.

PAS is real and many people live with it and suffer because of it. The only real way to determine the difference between an abuser using it to obtan custody and a true instance of Alienation is to have the specific criteria outlined so it can be properly assessed. Until then there will continue to be problems with interpretation and outrageous counseling fees incurred to be able to prove or disprove an accusation of alienation.

Anyone who makes this a gender issue is merely promoting hedgemony and is unable to see beyond their own personal experiances. As with everything weithin Family Courts, its literally a labrynth trying to sort out the information, and in most cases you only get one side of the story regardless if you know both parties.

DCinMA and all
Great news with your reuniifacttion. It terrible that PA happens to to many good parents both fathers and mothers. It a shame how allegations can be used in court with out due process and people are not held accountable. The kids are csught in the middle. The damage it does to the children with the long term emotional development is a crime. It is to bad the courts and many professionals do not recongnize it as yet.
It is emotional abuse and control just as DV is and it happens to many good women and men. It is time to re3cognize this as abuse and work to together to prevent more vicitims.

"The words for your ex are not for print."

Thank you Murph. She's made her own hell unfortunately. She hasn't seen the kids in 4 years now and is bitter and broke and cut off from her parents and siblings and completely unrecognizable to me as someone I was married to for 17 years.

Now I have my youngest (16) year old daughter living with me, my son (20) is in his own place just down the street and my 22 year old is now back in my life, married, going to school and working on making me a grampa soon. I have a great relationship with all 3 kids now and try my best not to alienate them from their mother.

I have friends that are going through hell with this now, both moms and dads, with kids who despise them and claim that they have been terribly abused by them...even when therapists work with them and show them that it simply cannot be true. Those poor kids will be scarred for life and the parents are heartbroken.

DCinMA and all
Great news with your reuniifacttion. It terrible that PA happens to to many good parents both fathers and mothers. It a shame how allegations can be used in court with out due process and people are not held accountable. The kids are csught in the middle. The damage it does to the children with the long term emotional development is a crime. It is to bad the courts and many professionals do not recongnize it as yet.
It is emotional abuse and control just as DV is and it happens to many good women and men. It is time to re3cognize this as abuse and work to together to prevent more vicitims.

I agree PA/PAS needs to be recognized in DSM to truely help. Just as DV PST Batters woman syndrome and many others are now.

It is unfortunate DV advocates and this clashes. I beleive the conditions and traits are similiar to DV and it has the same charateristice control and manipulation. It is time to help the true victims the children and parents (mothers and father) suffering with this and to help educate professionals that it is real to many parents and children are hurting. It is also important to stop false allegation of DV being used, this is hurting the tru victims of DV as well.

working on making me a grampa soon

And the cycle starts again.

Don't mean that for anyone,just a personal observation

#13 | POSTED BY DCINMA
"completely unrecognizable to me as someone I was married to for 17 years. "

Wow. My heart goes out to you.
This is one of those stories where we think we've been through shit, until we hear someone else's story.

here is a disease that most people can claim and justify anything: stupid.
#2 | Posted by Shawn

I hope you never have children and experience the misfortune of learning otherwise.

I have to pipe in here. I do not know whether the Rachel house is useful or not. Have never seen the program, and to make comment on it would be irresponsible on my part. On the other hand, I am 44 years old. My parents separated when I was 16 and divorced when I was 17. That year was a constant torture by my mother. She made it mandatory to PROVE our loyalty to her daily, if not hourly. In order to survive her physical and mental torture I did what I had to in order to survive. I joined her in her campaign to destroy my father. I knew it was wrong. I did it anyway, because the pain of hurting my devoted and loving father was less than the pain my mother inflicted on me and my siblings if I failed her.
I treated him badly for many years. In my own mind, I justified my actions by thinking he must have deserved it because he either COULD NOT or WOULD NOT rescue me and my siblings (I am child 4 of 6). He did nothing wrong to me. He did nothing wrong to my siblings. Apparently his sin was that she threw him out (read nagged, threatened and filed false charges while he was working) and he didn't come crawling on his belly to beg her to take him back. Instead he went on with his life and paid his support and alimony on time.
He tried to see us as often as he could (he was a long haul truck driver). I thought he knew the hell she put us through.
I found out 4 years ago (yep, I said 4 years ago) that he never knew...never understood what she put us through. He could not understand until Memorial day 2006 why I had turned against him. Things are better now.
But to this day, I fight a constant struggle with trust issues and depression. Children believe they are half of each parent. When you convince a child to turn against half of themselves they may feel fractured.
Inclusion of PAD (parental alienation disorder) in the DSM would help get treatment for children who have suffered this stockholm syndrome type disorder. The relationships will either work themselves out or not, but the damage needs to be addressed to the children.

A parent who accuses the other of sexual impropriety that is unfounded doesn't merely deserve to lose custody. She (or sometimes he, maybe) should go to prison.

My ex- tried that with me, said that when I would bring the kids back from the beach, we would all shower together. She spent two thousand bucks on "child psychologists" who testified that putting a two-year-old in the shower to be sure to get all the sand out of her hair was abusive. It was ridiculous, and the judge gave me custody anyway, probably because she was handing the kids to me, one by one, so we could be sure to have them all clean. My lawyer had some fun with it by putting them all on the stand, but I had a good lawyer.

Prison terms. That'll stop it.

BTW DC--good post. I vaguely remember some of the details of your predicament a few years ago. Kudos, finally.

This is one of those threads that humanizes retorters on the other side of the political compass for me.

Its threads like these that I think of when I reject Bob's two Americas idea.