Caterpillar, a big union company that allowed itself to be used as a photo-op for Obama in times past, is now realizing they climbed in bed with the wrong people.

I wonder if the libtards realize they're in the pocket of Komatsu and Volvo. Ah well. You vote for Obama, you deserve the consequences. Unfortunately, so will alot of us who didn't.

By the way--it's one of the big talking points of the libbies as to how much more competitive America will be when this turd passes. If that's true, why isn't the Manufacturers Association behind it? Or the Chambers of Commerce? If what O says about the average premium falling by as much as $3000--or 3000 percent--is true, and the company can use that money to give raises instead--why isn't corporate America telling everyone to pass it?

It's because he's a liar. He's lied about everything, he's lying about this, and the first jobs to go will be big union jobs in the Midwest. Poetic justice, that.

"It's because he's a liar. He's lied about everything,"

now you're lying.

Ooh. Good one Kliffy.

"We can ill-afford cost increases which place us at a disadvantge versus our competitors"...Who do not have to pay health insurance because they have national health.

FTFY

Thanks Whiskey. You fixed it for me.

Not fixed for Caterpillar, though. Or the other 499 S&P 500 companies, or the millions of smaller ones.

Next time, CAT: don't support liberals. Serves you right, really.

"We can ill-afford cost increases which place us at a disadvantge versus our competitors"...Who do not have to pay health insurance because they have national health.

FTFY

#5 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2010-03-19 12:21 PM

Caterpiller is just stating the obvious ObamaCare is a "jobs" bill.

When they move to China, will they be called Craterprillar?

Stop cryin Wissy, you would much rather see Cat move to China than see a strong national health care bill with a medicare buy in or public option and you know it.

Stop cryin Wissy, you would much rather see Cat move to China than see a strong national health care bill with a medicare buy in or public option and you know it.

#10 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour

Let me know when somebody comes up with a strong national health care bill. This one is a dud, rot gut.

as I have said..this is just collateral damage that is no problem to the left and its 'obama plantation' plan for the once great USA.

Sounds like more layoffs coming down the pike.

Don't forget to mention an additional 16,000 IRS employees to administer ObamaCare.

I'll have to put Caterpillar in my future Buy list.

Well their profit was 900 million last year. Wouldnt want to give up 1/9 of that to fix health care for the citizens of the country that allowed caterpillar to exist in the first place would we?

Corporations. Profit before humanity. Every time.

Posting this article just makes RIR look stupid. A successful company bitching about helping folks won't draw any sympathy from me.

We buy Cat equipment almost exclusively (other than trucks) even though it is generally more expensive than the competition.

Reason: It is much better, tougher stuff, and the operators love it.

Just thought I'd throw that in there...

"Don't forget to mention an additional 16,000 IRS employees to administer ObamaCare."

Good jobs for a better America!

Yup. $895 million in profit, on 32.4 Billion in sales. Profit margin of 2.76%. Investors were better off buying CD's. And with those earnings, they had to service $31 billion in debt.

But, hey, what's $100,000,000, to help save the world?

CD's. Better than buying into an all-union, Obama-supporting company.

you would much rather see Cat move to China than see a strong national health care bill with a medicare buy in or public option and you know it.

#10 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour

Come on, you don't care how many jobs move to china, or how much you harm future generations, as long as you can get a fatter welfare check, free drugs, and whatever else the dems dream up to buy your vote with every 2 years. Fuck America is fine, as long as you keep getting what is "owed" to you.

Well their profit was 900 million last year. Wouldnt want to give up 1/9 of that to fix health care for the citizens of the country that allowed caterpillar to exist in the first place would we?

Corporations. Profit before humanity. Every time.

#16 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

SS (how appropriate!), you talk like this 900 million was stuffed in someone's ass and you didn't get your fair share. Do you think that the money they had left after union paychecks and bank loans might be used to, oh, IDK, grow the business or pay stock holders or invest in new design work? Of course not. Any dollar that doesn't go to the govt is a dollar that can't be used to buy your vote. Another buck of freebies that somehow escaped your clutches.

Just admit it, if a company makes a buck, you think the govt should take it and "help" someone. No one should profit from their hard work... govt should make everyone equally poor and miserable.

"you don't care how many jobs move to china, or how much you harm future generations, as long as you can get a fatter welfare check, free drugs, and whatever else the dems dream up..."

Hyperbole much?

why does caterpillar hate america??

"CD's. Better than buying into an all-union, Obama-supporting company."

Well, Cat is one of the best manufacturers the US has left so if you don't support them I guess you really ARE screwed.

Just admit it, if a company makes a buck, you think the govt should take it and "help" someone. No one should profit from their hard work... govt should make everyone equally poor and miserable.

#21 | POSTED BY 1LIBERTARIAN

If a company makes a buck they should recognize where that buck came from. America and the infrastructure it provided. The roads that carried the goods, the schools that educated the employees, on and on. To turn your back on those that gave you life is selfish, unfortunately it's not criminal.

Corporations are like ungrateful successful children who allow their parents and siblings to live in poverty while they reap the benefits of their past nurturing.

Well their profit was 900 million last year. Wouldnt want to give up 1/9 of that to fix health care for the citizens of the country that ...blah, blah, blah

#16 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2010-03-19 07:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Cat already provides health coverage for the people who work for Cat -- and their families.

Why is an Illinois company that makes dirt-pushing machines suddenly responsible for some lazy fuck in Los Angeles who won't buy insurance?

"Cat already provides health coverage for the people who work for Cat -- and their families."

Gee... I wonder how much the evil "Unions" had to do with that?

Why is an Illinois company that makes dirt-pushing machines suddenly responsible for some lazy fuck in Los Angeles who won't buy insurance?

#26 | POSTED BY VERNON

Because retard. that FUCK, lazy or not, is a part of the society that allowed caterpillar to EXIST. if he's lazy, try funding the educational system some more.

If a company makes a buck they should recognize where that buck came from.

Ah.... they already pay taxes. It is part of the difference between 32.4 Billion in sales and $895 million in profit. Think maybe they already "recognized"?

...America and the infrastructure it provided. The roads that carried the goods, the schools that educated the employees, on and on. To turn your back on those that gave you life is selfish, unfortunately it's not criminal.

Fuck, you want the 100%? They aren't even allowed to keep 2.76%? Talk about selfish! You want to sit on your ass and steal from people who work. Unfortunately, communism like yours isn't illegal either. Stupid and doomed to fail, but not criminal.

Corporations are like ungrateful successful children who allow their parents and siblings to live in poverty while they reap the benefits of their past nurturing.

#25 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

As if we needed any better example of the type of people who supported Stalin and his ilk.

"Ah.... they already pay taxes. It is part of the difference between 32.4 Billion in sales and $895 million in profit."

Good point. What part of that loss is taxes as opposed to operating costs, materials, etc?

I have no idea but I'm curious.

try funding the educational system some more.

#28 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2010-03-20 02:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

Ahhhh, the magic solution!

Spend more on edumacation!

Hey, SuckSoft, do some homework on spending on edumacation -- the districts that spend the most have the worst outcomes: D.C., Kansas City, Philadelphia, Chicago, Los Angeles, etc.

Meanwhile, low-dollar options like charter schools, home schooling and (HOLY FUCK!!!!) Catholic schools are quite successful.

Sorry, dipshit, but spending more money on edumacation is money down the shithole.

Yes, the answers to any question you ask a socialist is more spending.

if you ask "Is it raining?" they will bitch cause we haven't bankrupted ourselves with global warming bullshit.

if you ask "What's wrong with keeping some of your own money" they will bitch about poor people needing more welfare.

And almost any question will prompt the knee-jerk "need to spend more on educating those kids unfortunate enough not to be aborted in the womb".

if you ask "is the sun shining", they will tell you why lazy people need to have free suntan lotion included with the free hammocks they get from those of us stupid enough to actually haul our asses out of bed and off to a job.

I prefer one of the quotes of Ben Franklin. "I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer."

Damn, how much we have forgotten in this country.

spending more money on edumacation is money down the shithole.

Hey, just cos you were impervious to education doesn't mean everybody is like that.

On Topic?

Coupla things...

Big companies like Caterpillar, who want to be able to compete internationally with countries that don't provide HC, have decent wages or environmental safeguards, get little sympathy from Spud.

Whether this 100 million dollar costing is correct or not is nowhere near clear yet.

Last year was a rough one for manufacturing and Cat still managed to pull off over 400 million in profits. This move will not bankrupt Cat even in the off chance that their numbers are correct here.

Cat has spent much of the last ten years waging war on their own employees in the name of competing with the China price. Laying off 20,000 workers, crushing the unions, underpaying their people.

Now they are whining.

Fuck 'em.

Be Well.

/This selective leak is obviously being used to get out in front on future layoffs they will, no doubt, attribute to the HC reforms regardless of their actual prime motivators.

spending more money on edumacation is money down the shithole.

No, spending more money on this flawed system is money down the shithole.

Hey, just cos you were impervious to education doesn't mean everybody is like that.

pot-kettle kinda thing, huh?

Big companies like Caterpillar, who want to be able to compete internationally with countries that don't provide HC, have decent wages or environmental safeguards, get little sympathy from Spud.

Of course not. Much better for Cat to fail to compete, loose market share to foreign companies and then to just die. That way all the workers get good and fucked. Of course, Obamacare and welfare will save them.

Whether this 100 million dollar costing is correct or not is nowhere near clear yet.

I am sure you are correct. I am sure that this pro-obama company is lying to try and hurt him cause they work up this morning and decided to stop taking their stupid pills.

Last year was a rough one for manufacturing and Cat still managed to pull off over 400 million in profits. This move will not bankrupt Cat even in the off chance that their numbers are correct here.

Sure it will. It will be either a slow move out of the US so they can compete, or a slow loss of market share. Either way, this govt program will kill cat as an American company.

Cat has spent much of the last ten years waging war on their own employees in the name of competing with the China price. Laying off 20,000 workers, crushing the unions, underpaying their people.

Now they are whining.

Fuck 'em.

Be Well.

Sure, fuck em. Not like the 10's of thousands of employees that are in the US needs those stupid jobs.

/This selective leak is obviously being used to get out in front on future layoffs they will, no doubt, attribute to the HC reforms regardless of their actual prime motivators.

Or maybe, just maybe, they reviewed the shit going on and realized it would harm their business and, by extension, all of their US employees.

No, spending more money on this flawed system is money down the shithole.

~1Profitarian

America already spends more per person than the rest of the world on HC. These reforms will ultimately save the country money and make businesses like Cat more competitive.

Of course not. Much better for Cat to fail to compete, loose market share to foreign companies and then to just die. That way all the workers get good and fucked. Of course, Obamacare and welfare will save them.

CAT aint gonna die cos of HC.

They will only die if they lose proprietary tech to China.

Your concern for over-paid CEO and board members is truly touching and duly noted.

Sure it will. It will be either a slow move out of the US so they can compete, or a slow loss of market share. Either way, this govt program will kill cat as an American company.

No, it won't. The reforms will help to control HC costs which are already out of control. Real workers rights and living standards have decreased dramatically over the last thirty years or so. That you support the increased debasement of the American worker in order to kowtow to corporate talking points like "Oh Noes. HC is gonna kill us!111" is pathetic. It is fear mongering, plain and simple.

Sure, fuck em. Not like the 10's of thousands of employees that are in the US needs those stupid jobs.

Not like CAT doesn't need those 10's of thousands of employees (especially their R&D guys) in order to continue to make those profits.

Or maybe, just maybe, they reviewed the shit going on and realized it would harm their business and, by extension, all of their US employees.

Cos denying HC access to employees in order to maximize profits somehow doesn't harm employees already?

Be Well.

America already spends more per person than the rest of the world on HC. These reforms will ultimately save the country money and make businesses like Cat more competitive.

Do you want to buy a bridge? How can anybody of sound mind and body imagine government can save money on anything?

CAT aint gonna die cos of HC.

True. But they can lay off more American workers and move more manufacturing offshore.

Here's another sign of the times.
China Drawing High-Tech Research From U.S.

XI'AN, China -- For years, many of China's best and brightest left for the United States, where high-tech industry was more cutting-edge. But Mark R. Pinto is moving in the opposite direction.

Mr. Pinto is the first chief technology officer of a major American tech company to move to China. The company, Applied Materials, is one of Silicon Valley's most prominent firms. It supplied equipment used to perfect the first computer chips. Today, it is the world's biggest supplier of the equipment used to make semiconductors, solar panels and flat-panel displays.

In addition to moving Mr. Pinto and his family to Beijing in January, Applied Materials, whose headquarters are in Santa Clara, Calif., has just built its newest and largest research labs here. Last week, it even held its annual shareholders' meeting in Xi'an.

It is hardly alone. Companies -- and their engineers -- are being drawn here more and more as China develops a high-tech economy that increasingly competes directly with the United States.

In the age of Obama, the future has shifted to Communist China.

He really is a miracle worker.

In the age of Obama, the future has shifted to Communist China.

Yeah, cos THAT's when it started.

The Middle Kingdom rises.

The American global economic hegemony skates on thin ice that's getting thinner all the time.

American corporations moving their most advanced manufacturing technology to China in the naive hope that their global branding will save them when China steals and duplicates their work are deluding themselves.

China plays the long game while the US is locked into a short term game of quarterly reports and electoral cycles.

Global market share is pretty much a zero sum game.

Be Well.

American corporations moving their most advanced manufacturing technology to China in the naive hope that their global branding will save them when China steals and duplicates their work are deluding themselves.

Spud is always the dreamer. As has been proved over and over again, the typical consumer doesn't give a shit where his goods are made. He looks for value.

Global market share is pretty much a zero sum game.

What's interesting about multi-nationals is they can shift resources anywhere in the world where there are opportunities. As the world economy continues to expand and grow, there will be losers. That puts national governments in the position of competing for their business if they want to or know how.

That puts national governments in the position of competing for their business if they want to or know how.

#40 | Posted by Ray
* * * *

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

So now the accountants at CAT are looking hard at numbers they've been poring over for the past several years, this time with an extra $100,000,000 in compliance costs per year to keep production in Obamaland. If you want to break into foreign markets for growth, where best to put the factories?

And the big O in the White House just gave them a hundred million reasons for the answer to be that much more obvious: ChIndia, Thailand, Mexico--anywhere else but here.

Spud is always the dreamer.

So was MLK.

Dreams are preferable to nightmare scenarios.

As has been proved over and over again, the typical consumer doesn't give a shit where his goods are made. He looks for value.

Agreed. This is Spud's point, in fact.

Once China has access to the manufacturing secrets of even the highest of American tech it's only a matter of time before they duplicate it at a better price. American-based corporations like Caterpillar if they move all their manufacturing to China in a fit of pique will soon find a value identical "Catapirra" product on the market that sells for less. Their global brand recognition will go out the window then as people recognize and respond to the better value and Catapillar will be left holding an empty bag.

May take decades but that's wot'll happen if nothing is done to change the situation.

What's interesting about multi-nationals is they can shift resources anywhere in the world where there are opportunities. As the world economy continues to expand and grow, there will be losers. That puts national governments in the position of competing for their business if they want to or know how.

There will be losers and winners.

The losers will actually be the WINners, in fact.

Which is to say, the Western Industrialized Nations who's manufacturing bases are all bleeding off to China currently.

In the industrialized west the standard of living will decline much more than the Chinese standard of living will rise.

It's an ebb tide that sinks all boats, so to speak.

Wealth over-consolidation will continue to lead to a neo-fuedal world where increasingly desperate people commit increasingly desperate acts justifying more draconian rule which in turn will created optimal conditions for the rise of new totalitarian states like back in the dirty thirties.

THAT's the nightmare scenario.

Which is why Spud continues to dream of a future that is less grim.

Dreams can come true.

Nightmares too.

Be Well.

The new law doesn't even take effect for three years, yet costs keep skyrocketing. Health Care Insurance CEOs do not deserve hundreds of millions in bonuses for dropping customers (killing them) and I do not give a shit if a surgeon makes only $1 million a year, as they do in England, instead of $3 million as many do here. Private insurance companies provide to health care or added value of any kind. All they do is skim money by the boatload. But these serious deficiencies are not being addressed.

If the only change in health care was to eliminate the pre-existing condition clause and make it impossible to drop patients when they get sick that would be progress against Capitalism's dark evil side.

Which is why Spud continues to dream of a future that is less grim.

Dreams can come true.

Nightmares too.

Be Well.

#42 | Posted by dethspud

And that pretty much summarizes the left---essentially irrational---they've always been dreamers and easily fall under the mesmerization of smooth talkers that chant slogans---Hitler a classic example. And once the disaster unfolds they'll continue to try to justify their political Bernie Madoff morphing ultimately into Jim Jones.

The new law doesn't even take effect for three years, yet costs keep skyrocketing. Health Care Insurance CEOs do not deserve hundreds of millions in bonuses for dropping customers (killing them) and I do not give a shit if a surgeon makes only $1 million a year, as they do in England, instead of $3 million as many do here. Private insurance companies provide to health care or added value of any kind. All they do is skim money by the boatload. But these serious deficiencies are not being addressed.

#43 | Posted by nutcase

One thing right about your post is your moniker "nutcase"---been in healthcare for years and I sure don't know any surgeon in my metropolitan area that makes 3 million a year---you have the same disease as your leader Obummer. you use hyperbole and lie when more and more people uncover your deceptive behavior.

I wonder how many UK surgeons are pulling down a mil.

In the UK they don't take what's become the 'Hypocratical Oath' in the U.S.

They actually care more about their patient's health than buying a Ferrari.

I wonder how many UK surgeons are pulling down a mil.

#46 | Posted by rightisright

Zeeeeeeeerrrrrrrooooooo?

since the economic downturn it is crystal clear where the financial pain is hitting, the middle and lower classes. CAT is a perfect example. Instead of investing in their workforce by providing health care they are seeking to keep their profits where they are continue to pay dividends and not cut the pay of the CEO etc.

the worker? well he loses jobs, pays more for healthcare, loses pay, etc.

time for all americans to feel the pain

people with health insurance are generally in better health.

a healthier workforce is a more productive work force

companies profit from more productive work force

more money in healthcare means more jobs for health care professionals, more hospitals and more faciities(meaning more construction), more health equipment (meaning more manufacturing).

Basic economics.

Health care is great for the economic well being of ournation.

In the UK they don't take what's become the 'Hypocratical Oath' in the U.S.

They actually care more about their patient's health than buying a Ferrari.

#47 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Unlikely, they're no more noble then anyone else---trying to scratch out a living. The only physicians in the U.S. buying Ferrari's are some specialists. If general internists, family practitioners, and pediatricians are driving Ferrari's it's because they are either working an ungodly number of hours, are in debt up to their ears, inherited a boatload from daddy or stole all of Ray's gold.

They can't even keep the hospitals clean in the UK. Thousands die annually of treatments that are routine here, all in the name of cost savings.

You're right. No Hippocratic Oath, in the finite world of budget finance and collapsing demographics.

"You're right. No Hippocratic Oath, in the finite world of budget finance and collapsing demographics."

Which means this is coming to America, whether we realize it or not. We're going from 6 payers-per-user to closer to 2.5 payers per user. Combine that with another decade of health costs wildly outpacing inflation, and it's obvious: much worse is yet to come.

You realize we have staph infections in U.S. hospitals that kill thousands, right?

The newest version kills 18,000 a year alone

In the UK they don't take what's become the 'Hypocratical Oath' in the U.S.

They actually care more about their patient's health than buying a Ferrari.

#47 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

"HYPO-cratical Oath" in the U.S.---that must be the Obummer

Hippocratic Oath in the U.S.----that must be the physician.

Which means this is coming to America, whether we realize it or not. We're going from 6 payers-per-user to closer to 2.5 payers per user. Combine that with another decade of health costs wildly outpacing inflation, and it's obvious: much worse is yet to come.

Yeah, we are fucked. And politicians only care about the next election cycle.

Dude, it's a word I made up - combination of "Hippocratic Oath" and "Hypocrite".

Sarcasm goes right over your head, MATSOP. WOOOOOOOSH!!!

Caterpiller is just stating the obvious ObamaCare is a "jobs" bill.

#8 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Job killer bill.

Corporations are like ungrateful successful children who allow their parents and siblings to live in poverty while they reap the benefits of their past nurturing.

#25 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

I guess if you are a pinko commie what you just said makes sense.

Cat does pay good wages and have been around for a long time. Making them move off-shore and loosing all thoes good paying jobs is STUPID.

When big o was running for prez probably 70% of DR was for him. Now probably that many is against him I hope you're not waking up too late for our country.He and his handlers plan to destroy this country and our way of life.The country will not be lost from stupidity but careful planning.

Dude, it's a word I made up - combination of "Hippocratic Oath" and "Hypocrite".

Sarcasm goes right over your head, MATSOP. WOOOOOOOSH!!!

#57 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Okay, AU, I'll give you a pass on this one----but remember, I'll be watching-----

Corporations are like ungrateful successful children who allow their parents and siblings to live in poverty while they reap the benefits of their past nurturing.

#25 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

People like SpeakSoftly are like ungrateful successful children who cry every time the government removes it's tit from Speaks mouth.

Just remember that corporations pay the second highest corporate taxes in the world. If you think America could survive without successful corporations then you have your head stuck up your ass and there is no need ever reading any of your post.

Ahh hell - who needs the world's biggest heavy equipment manufacturer anyway??

It's not like they pay hundreds of millions in taxes or employ 10's of thousands of people or anything.

Ohh, wait. Yes they do.

JM

Dreams are preferable to nightmare scenarios.
Dreams can come true.
Nightmares too.
#42 | POSTED BY DETHSPUD

Realists don't dream about impossibilities, nor do they have nightmares over the inevitable. They just adjust.

When I saw the headline I thought that they'd got it exactly right. My cat has as much idea how much this healthcare bill will cost as anybody else from the CBO on downwards.

It is a vastly complicated enterprise that is going to replace an existing vastly complicated enterprise. We know that the existing one is a steaming turd with tens of millions of Americans unable to afford or even get health care and having a poorer quality of life or even dying so why not replace it with a fairer system where everybody gets access to it. Sure it's going to be difficult and painful till it matures but that's the price to be paid for dicking around the edges of it for decades.

Those who say that we can't afford it seemingly don't realize how much they are paying for it already, they somehow even manage not to remember the obvious costs like insurance premiums, deductibles and copays which can, dependent on your circumstances and if you can get insurance at all, cost a family anywhere between say, $8,000 to $30,000 a year.

And that's only the start, the shrouded costs are that businesses who give their employees health insurance pass the cost along to you when you buy their product from tractors to toothpaste. What, you didn't realize that? Wake up!

Anecdotal case in point. My wife runs her own own interior design company. She uses an installer to hang the drapes. He is married with two kids, one of whom has some health issues. His insurance premiums are nearly $20,000 per year and that's with high deductibles. Who do you think pays for that? Not my wife, that's for sure. The people who are having their drapes hung, that's who. So those are insurance premiums too if you want to look at it that way, and bottom line is there is no other way to look at it.

So why not do what ever other developed country on the planet does? Give universal health care to its citizens and pay for it up front with taxes rather than being nickeled and dimed here, there and everywhere to feed the profit motive of the current healthcare industry.

"You're right. No Hippocratic Oath, in the finite world of budget finance and collapsing demographics."

Which means this is coming to America, whether we realize it or not. We're going from 6 payers-per-user to closer to 2.5 payers per user. Combine that with another decade of health costs wildly outpacing inflation, and it's obvious: much worse is yet to come.

#53 | Posted by Danforth

So you want to move this horrible dysfunction to the Federal Government?

Have you lost your mind?

Can you imagine going to the DMV when you're sick?

His insurance premiums are nearly $20,000 per year and that's with high deductibles.

I guess you expect us to believe that.

So why not do what ever other developed country on the planet does? Give universal health care to its citizens and pay for it up front with taxes rather than being nickeled and dimed here, there and everywhere to feed the profit motive of the current healthcare industry.

#65 | Posted by brock

Ok. Then force each state to do it's job and regulate the Insurance Companies operating in that state?

Pretty soon Health Insurance Companies will be non-profit...

How come this idea, which is the way the more successful Universal Health Care systems work, not being addressed?

Caterpillar will be ceasing US manufacturing soon. Oh, wait... they did that already?

Unfortunately, so will alot of us who didn't.

#1 | Posted by rightisright at 2010-03-19 11:42 AM | Reply | Flag

Too bad you don't have the courage of the Revolutionary War heroes who fought for what they believe in, and started their own contry. You wouldn't even need that much courage since few would oppose the millions upon millions who think just like you from forming the Confederate States of America. Why you want to stick around is very strange---the policies you despise will always be with this country---why not start your own country, and do it the way you want. Every man for himself.

"So you want to move this horrible dysfunction to the Federal Government? "

I want to see medical cost inflation come closer to actual inflation.

What's your solution?

'So you want to move this horrible dysfunction to the Federal Government?"

Just to see if you're tethered to reality, what percentage of the insured are already subject to this "horrible dysfunction"?

I'll even give you a hint: it's the percent who rarely complain about the availability or affordability of their health care.

Every member of congress has government health care---they don't seem ready to give it up, and I hear very little bitching coming from them about their care. I would like the same plan they have---which is offered under the new plan.

Why you want to stick around is very strange---the policies you despise will always be with this country---why not start your own country, and do it the way you want. Every man for himself.

#70 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob
* * * *

Democrats are already a minority again, so that's a big improvement. And when the Baby Boomers are dead and gone, we've got a good shot and getting the country back the way it should be.

Tick tick tick tick tick . . .

"His insurance premiums are nearly $20,000 per year and that's with high deductibles... posted by Brock"

I guess you expect us to believe that.

#67 | Posted by Sniper

I said it was anecdotal and therefore not formally provable.

I know and like him personally and have no reason to think he was lying, why would he?

I know you too from your posting history. You practice right wing negativism, if it doesn't fit into your world view than it's socialism or even communism and certainly un-American. Your problem is that America contains a very diverse population not all of whom are persuaded by your nihilistic cynicism.

"Ok. Then force each state to do it's job and regulate the Insurance Companies operating in that state?

Pretty soon Health Insurance Companies will be non-profit...

How come this idea, which is the way the more successful Universal Health Care systems work, not being addressed?

#68 | Posted by Eddie"

Excellent point, Eddie. Here's the beginning of an answer.

Before she escaped from corporate America my wife had spent many years as a CPCU(Commercial Property and Casualty Underwriter) and she says that the McCarron-Ferguson act was passed in 1945. That gave states the power to limit insurance company profits to 15% for their more traditional business in the property, casualty and other fields. The healthcare industry at that time barely existed and was certainly nothing like the monster it has now become so it wasn't part of that law. Since then of course, because they have most state and national legislatures in their pocket, the healthcare insurance industry has made damn well sure that things stayed that way.

That's the short speed version with stuff probably not quite right. My wife is writing me a post at much greater length and coherence which I'll post when I get it.

Nihilistic cynicism. Wow. Well, actually, that's your problem. Americans are on the whole too smart to know that the world's not going to end if we don't cram through Obamacare, cap-and-trade, Kyoto accords, UN mandates, and save-the-big-banks hysteria. That's you guys.

Nihilistic cynicism. Wow. Well, actually, that's your problem.
...

#77 | Posted by rightisright at 2010-03-20 02:40 PM | Reply | Flag: Cynic

That's you guys.

#77 | Posted by rightisright

I presume you're saying I'm a liberal. I'm not.

FYI I think that cap and trade is unworkable and the worst compromise since Don't Ask, Don't Tell. It practically sits up and begs to be abused by all the usual suspects.

Kyoto accords are useful to start the process of not turning our planet into a WALL-E nightmare but just the first baby step in a long journey. Of course the usual suspects will skirt round them too.

UN mandates don't impress the Bush, Cheney, China, Russia, Netanyahu, Al Qaeda's of this world or anybody else for that matter so are no more than symbolic.

Save the big banks? Hysteria is your word. In my opinion letting them all fail would have been hysteria. That was the visceral reaction and would have been emotionally satisfying but socially catastrophic. They had been allowed to become irresponsible through lack of oversight and their own poisonous greed. Although the blame can be spread around among all the political usual suspects, to borrow your phrase, "You guys" are mostly responsible which I'm sure that you won't agree with but deep down that's what most people think. And with very good reason.

I voted for Obama but that doesn't make me a liberal. After eight years of Numbnutz and Darth, Iraq, Katrina and an economic meltdown I was going to vote for more of the same from a spent McCain with health problems and Bush in a skirt a heartbeat away? If you did then you should probably not throw around the term "you guys" so carelessly.

Eddie,

Your #68 and my #76

Here's my wife's thoughts and conclusions on state regulation of the health insurance industry.

"Congress passed the McCarran-Ferguson Act in 1945 as a result of a Supreme Court (US v. South-Eastern Underwriters Association) case which deemed insurance to be commerce and thus subject to interstate commerce laws and anti-trust laws. The new McCarran Ferguson Act exempted Insurers from federal legislation as long as the states regulated the industry. It also exempted the insurance industry from federal anti-trust laws. All states have insurance departments that regulate insurance companies doing business within their borders. The success of state legislation varies widely from state to state. Most states regulate coverages and prescribe policy wording. Premium regulation is one of the biggest regulation controversies. Some states require that every rate hike/reduction be submitted with justification and pre approved before use. Others allow insurers to “file and use” new rates. Other states “trust” insurers not to hike rates without justification.

When it comes to health insurance, which was virtually nonexistent in 1945, most states now regulate coverages and mandate that certain medical procedures and prescriptions be covered. However, very little regulation, if any is applied to rate promulgation. Insurers are protected from the federal antitrust laws and therefore can work in tandem to keep rates artificially high with few insurers available in most geographical areas, which eliminates competition. Also, health insurers in most states can take a much higher percentage of the premiums in profit than in other lines of insurance.

Why is this allowed? Because insurance companies own your state legislators just like they own your Congressmen. State insurance commissioners who are charged with protecting policy holders usually come from the insurance industry itself."

Every member of congress has government health care---they don't seem ready to give it up, and I hear very little bitching coming from them about their care. I would like the same plan they have---which is offered under the new plan.

#73 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

That is one of the biggest lies this month. The TAXPAYER pays for their healthcare. They have the finest private insurance money can buy.

I said it was anecdotal and therefore not formally provable.

I know and like him personally and have no reason to think he was lying, why would he?

#75 | Posted by brock

What kind of a job do you think he has to afford $20,000 per year insurance preimum?

That is a real stretch, no matter how negative you think I am. The only thing I am negative about is the direction our government is taking us. I don't even like it a little.

Shall we go back to the Bush era - where we added $7 Trilion in debt instead of paying it off, where one unfunded tax cut and program were passed, where we started $2 Trillion wars over BS?

Ya, gee, we're all dying for another go at that. Same players in Congress now that voted for trillions in unfunded tax cuts and programs. Same players who whine about deficits now that they aren't in the majority.

BTW, were you aware the CBO scored Bush's 2 tax cuts and Medicare Part D? Yep. They said they'd lead to massive deficits. The GOP voted for them anyway - passing them via reconciliation.

I'm a bit confused by this. First, there's nothing on Caterpillar's website, no press releases, nothing. Second, this letter is authored by Vice President Gregory S. Foley, according to the "press release." Foley's not listed on Caterpillar's Board or as an Officer:

YAV

File that one away with the bogus New England Journal of Medicine poll of doctors.

BTW, that 'poll' was done by a search firm for doctors who, on the other hand, are salivating over the prospect for all the new business they'll get.

What kind of a job do you think he has to afford $20,000 per year insurance preimum?

That is a real stretch, no matter how negative you think I am.

#82 | Posted by Sniper

He has the kind of a job that my wife and many other interior designers employ him for. That is, installing the hardware and hanging drapes that can cost up to several thousands of dollars per window in multimillion dollar homes. He is continuously busy and only slightly less so this last two years or so. His and my wife's clients live differently than we do and, even in these tough economic times, are relatively unaffected by the mess the party most of them voted for made of our economy.

He is paid very well and so he should be. He is a skilled professional who always produces a first rate result. His and our clients appreciate that, especially those who have tried to cheapskate their drapes, ended up with miserable failures and called in my wife for a do over.

He votes Republican by the way and resisted my attempts to get him not to last time but did hold his nose. Maybe you think he's lying about that too.

If this turd passes tomorrow without even one Rebublican vote, ALL healthcare issues will be on the dems. Soooooo, if premiums go up it will be the dems fault. If waiting times go up it will be the dems fault. If there are fewer hospitals it will be the dems fault. If there are fewer doctors it will be the dems fault. If research and development shows it will be the dems fault. If states go bankrupt because of it, it will be the dems fault. If the economy gets worse it will be the dems fault..... all this FOREVER!!!

Go for it dems! Defy the will of the we the people. Finally DC will be changed for real.

You know, despite everything coming from talk radio and FOX there are some sane, responsible and reasonable Republicans left in the House and Senate, even in states that voted Republican last time. Not many, but some. So I'm expecting a few Republican votes for it.

As for the rest of you, what's your solution to the healthcare crisis? You don't have one except the status quo? Really.

I wonder how many UK surgeons are pulling down a mil.

#46 | Posted by rightisright

I wonder how their healthcare compares?

Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment within six months:
U.S.-----93%
England--15%
Canada---43%

As for the rest of you, what's your solution to the healthcare crisis? You don't have one except the status quo? Really.

#88 | Posted by brock

There will not be EVEN ONE republican vote and the dems will ALWAYS be blamed for what happens next. You are probably too young to remember the gas lines in the 70s.

The "status quo" talking point is bullshit... tort reform, portability, state lines. duh

If those figures are correct and not just another lie sponsored by the healthcare and pharmaceutical industries then so what? It's the method of PAYING for our health care and the number of people who have access to it that is changing not the QUALITY of it. It's the method of paying for it that worries the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries because they will get to skim less cream off the top than they do now, leaving m0re for the rest of us.

Context free data like this is no use. What does "treatment" mean? What's so magic about 6 months, wouldn't 6 days be better? Do the figures include uninsured people in America?

I still say there are some sane Republicans left who will put America and its people first. We'll see. There are two Republican Senators in Maine, you know. Both sane, both women. Rarities in both respects on the right these days, I know, but there you go.

#89 | Posted by Sniper

Another right wing meme passed from blog to blog as though it's fact.

Guess how many Canadians and Britons had to file for bankruptcy because of medical conditions?

0%

#92 | Posted by brock

I respectfully disagree, but we shall see. This bill is horrible for this country as time will show. All this is, is a Marxist idealogy being pushed on all of us. Nobody studies history any more, but this has all been tried and failed before. The dumbing down of this country is now complete.

"The "status quo" talking point is bullshit... tort reform, portability, state lines. duh"

Back in the day I worked on mainframe computers. Portability of code was the holy grail. Never happened until the PC revolution, the internet, HTML etc. Bit like current right wing thinking about never moving beyond the health care status quo. Or just about anything really.

Tort reform. Lawyers who work for corporations are so much better than lawyers who work for people. Joe would agree.

State lines? WTF.

"All this is, is a Marxist idealogy being pushed on all of us."

First of all, that's stupid. Secondly, it's spelled "ideology," dumbshit.

#95 | Posted by brock

No fool like an old fool mainframe boy :+)

Guess how many Canadians and Britons had to file for bankruptcy because of medical conditions?
0%
#93 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

Source please? Or you pulling shit out of your ass?

Source please? Or you pulling shit out of your ass?

Only a nose belonging to some guy named Raystradamus who only predicts events. Prove your predictions. Someone described you perfectly as a guy who prays his parents will die so he can be right about his prediction they'll die.

#94

Equally respectfully I have never understood where what I think of as an irrational fear of change comes from when it is painfully clear that some aspect of life in America is so obviously wrong, bad, inefficient or unfair as to be crying out for change.

Slavery and Civil Rights are obvious examples. Changes bitterly opposed in large parts of our society yet who would say now that it wasn't the right thing to do? I believe that it will be that way with universal health care too. There will be problems with it, of course there will, and they will be major ones. But the current system that denies decent health care to so many is fundamentally wrong and problems are things meant to be solved.

The problems will not be helped, rather made worse, by the bloody-minded intransigence of the Republicans just like with the bloody-minded intransigence of the Democrats over Civil Rights. I'm just being PC here. Really it's the South we're mostly talking about but in the interests of being fair and balanced I substitute Democrat for back then and Republican for right now.

You socialists think this is some kind of game. There's a tipping point where new debt losses its stimulating effect. Thereafter, debt has a deteriorating effect. If you get your health care bill, it's going to be a Pyhrric Victory, not that it'll make much difference.

Only a nose belonging to some guy named Raystradamus who only predicts events. Prove your predictions. Someone described you perfectly as a guy who prays his parents will die so he can be right about his prediction they'll die.

#99 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

Look at the charts I just posted, Asshole!

Your 'sky is falling' predictions don't mean squat to me, Ray. I got over Chicken Little by the time I was 6. You've been quite an asshole lately. Bye bye.

#98

Ever heard of the word axiomatic?

ax·i·om (ks-m)
n.
1. A self-evident or universally recognized truth; a maxim: "It is an economic axiom as old as the hills that goods and services can be paid for only with goods and services" (Albert Jay Nock).
2. An established rule, principle, or law.
3. A self-evident principle or one that is accepted as true without proof as the basis for argument; a postulate.

Percentage of patients diagnosed with diabetes who received treatment within six months:
U.S.-----93%
England--15%
Canada---43%

How much of that 93% received treatment because of the United States government's taxpayer-funded Medicare program?

Those figures are bullshit, passed from right wing blog to right wing blog.

Those figures are bullshit, passed from right wing blog to right wing blog.
#106 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

Those are Federal Reserve statistics, Dimwit.

#107 | Posted by Ray

Got a source or are you pulling that out of your ass? (to quote Chicken Little).

They probably tried to do a "Cat" scan on the bill and found that there isn't one...just old ones laying around........

Well their profit was 900 million last year. Wouldnt want to give up 1/9 of that to fix health care for the citizens of the country that allowed caterpillar to exist in the first place would we?
Corporations. Profit before humanity. Every time.

#16 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

worth repeating..

American corporations moving their most advanced manufacturing technology to China in the naive hope that their global branding will save them when China steals and duplicates their work are deluding themselves.
Spud is always the dreamer. As has been proved over and over again, the typical consumer doesn't give a shit where his goods are made. He looks for value.
Global market share is pretty much a zero sum game.
What's interesting about multi-nationals is they can shift resources anywhere in the world where there are opportunities. As the world economy continues to expand and grow, there will be losers. That puts national governments in the position of competing for their business if they want to or know how.

#40 | POSTED BY RAY

show the value and I will buy it.. China makes shit products that are cheaply made and break. PERIOD.

Leave it to Ray and LIEbertarian1 to take sides with the red chinese and corporate america. Fucking traitors.

Caterpiller is just stating the obvious ObamaCare is a "jobs" bill.
#8 | Posted by AndreaMackris
Job killer bill.

#58 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Really?

If you stupid fucks researched the primary markets buying cat products and how many actually work in the US you wouldn't look so fucking stupid.

"Worldwide employment was 94,225 at the end of third quarter 2009. Employment declined by approximately 17,900 from third quarter 2008. Due to restructuring of business operations, the decades since the 1990s have seen the elimination of 20,000 high-wage union jobs in the Peoria, Illinois area, while employment has increased due to the use of more non-U.S. and nonunion labor.
According to a 2001 article in the Nashville Business Journal, 60% of Caterpillar's employees work outside the United States"

Leave it to Ray and LIEbertarian1 to take sides with the red chinese and corporate america. Fucking traitors.

#111 | Posted by Legio at 2010-03-20 07:44 PM

Ray does not care because he is 70 years old and won't be around much longer anyways. What I find surprising is that Ray is forced to work at 70. If he was so smart wouldn't he be retired already?

" If he was so smart wouldn't he be retired already? "

Posted by jackass at 2010-03-20 07:52 PM | Reply

I retired at 47 and fund my own research.

I retired at 47 and fund my own research.

#114 | POSTED BY ZATOICHI

good for you!

I feel like a retiree at 43 even though I bust ass farming.

Every member of congress has government health care---they don't seem ready to give it up, and I hear very little bitching coming from them about their care. I would like the same plan they have---which is offered under the new plan.

#73 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob

That is one of the biggest lies this month. The TAXPAYER pays for their healthcare. They have the finest private insurance money can buy.

#81 | Posted by Sniper at 2010-03-20 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

I missed where the lie comes in---I think we all know the taxpayer pays for every government expense. As to them having the "finest private insurance money can buy", that option is one of the plans offered under the new proposal.

Leave it to Ray and LIEbertarian1 to take sides with the red chinese and corporate america. Fucking traitors.
#111 | POSTED BY LEGIO

I report the facts, dimwit! If you can't handle them, go back to playing with dolls.

Ray does not care because he is 70 years old and won't be around much longer anyways. What I find surprising is that Ray is forced to work at 70. If he was so smart wouldn't he be retired already?
#113 | POSTED BY JACKASSK

Unlike you, Jackoff, I like to work. I don't plan on retiring.

Gee, RAY, you're losing your cool a lot these days. Chill out.

"Unlike you, Jackoff, I like to work."

Ray loves spending his life enriching capitalists.

A successful company bitching about helping folks won't draw any sympathy from me.

#17 | Posted by jackass at 2010-03-19 07:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

A once successful company.

It's obvious you don't know much about Peoria Based Caterpillar, nor the recent layoffs and to continue outsourcing at their Decatur Illinois plant.

I'm not even sure why I responded to your ignorance. I'm pretty certain you care little about how stupid you come off.

They made 900 million in profits. I call that pretty successful even if it did come from outsourcing.

I call that pretty successful even if it did come from outsourcing.

#122 | Posted by jackass at 2010-03-20 09:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm pretty certain you care little about how stupid you come off.

Porkchop why not inform me since I think 900 million is a fairly decent amount in profits. Unless you think corporations are entitled to more?

It's obvious you don't know much about Peoria Based Caterpillar, nor the recent layoffs and to continue outsourcing at their Decatur Illinois plant.

Their stock has more than doubled the S&P in the past year.

My G-d, they're doomed!

Bet the guys on the top floor haven't taken a pay cut. Bet on it.

I wonder why mgmt never says they will make a little less to avoid layoffs? Instead they have layoffs and pay themselves a bonus.

Unlike you, Jackoff, I like to work. I don't plan on retiring.

#118 | Posted by Ray

whatever you say Ray.. whatever you say..Let me know how that gold thingy works out for ya..

What?? Catepillar didn't have their lobbyist in there doing the bribes and deals that say the unions did in the HC bill?

Soemone should get fired over there.

And they were all gun ho on Obama and the bill and they are getting screwed like everyone else--

Except the chosen few of course..

Stop wasting good money building caterpillars, and just pay the workers!

Or is that too democrat?

Or, call 'em terists, put them in prison work camps and make them build caterpillars for free!

Or is that too republican?

#125

Pathetic strawman.

More bullshit from more of the same success hating zealots