Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Thursday, March 18, 2010

House Democrats said Thursday that their revamped health care reform bill would achieve the deficit reductions needed to push forward with a delicate plan to finalize the package, setting up a possible vote for Sunday. Sources said the Congressional Budget Office has estimated that the updated package will save save $130 billion over the first 10 years after passage and $1.2 trillion over the second decade.

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And when has any cost estimate been accurate, especially with government programs?

This is the death knell for the Repube opposition.

Dems should market the Bill as, "Tastes Better, Costs Less!", just so even wingnuts get the message.

Yeah, maybe they are off by 20 percent and it only saves over 100 billion the first 10 years.

You idiots are going to bankrupt the country. Nice job.

Idits with power will be the death of us all.

-Idits with power will be the death of us all.

Ya gotta love the self-retorting, lol.

$940 BILLION is "great news???"

Oh believe me, I have no love for you guys. I am having to restrain myself from expressing what I really think of your side.

$940 BILLION is "great news???"

#6 | Posted by Diablo

To the Illegal Immigrants.

Sources said the estimate shows the bill would save $130 billion over the first 10 years

Give me tons of money for 10 years, and let me provide only six years of benefits for you during that period, and I bet I could save lots of money too. BFD.

".... the bill would save $130 billion over the first 10 years and $1.2 trillion over the second decade."... is the great news.

It's called, "investing".

It's called, "investing".

#10 | Posted by Corky

The same term used when stealing from the S.S. fund.

The part that is great news is "without adding to the deficit." I would like to know about the following decade, but it is still good news. There are many aspects of the bill as I know it that I don't like, but this means it may not be as harmful as first thought financially.

-Illegal Immigrants

Not covered by this Bill, so still a cost drag, unfortunately. They say this will be addressed with a comprehensive immigration Bill, but who knows.

#9 | Been reading Lewin Group insurance industry propaganda again. It does come in Braille, though.

Many of the underlying assumptions are just bunk. For example, it is assumed that employers will pay the 8% fine, dump their employees on the exchange and then pay their employees more because they don't have to pay health benefits. The idea is that tax revenues will go up. This is laughable.

This bill will not reduce costs and will cause many doctors to stop practicing medicine. Just look at Massachuessets.

Okay, so the CBO report sounds promising, but does it show that the bill has solved the problem of unsustainably high insurance increases? As of now it sounds like the argument is that we've got most people in the boat, a near miracle in its own right, without any real attention to whether or not the boat is still sinking. It doesn't matter if we've preserved our day's worth of buoyancy if dry land is a 30 hour drift away.

November is going to be a slaughter. I am mystified why the Dems are charging off a cliff like this.

RE: Illegal aliens

Even if we believed the lie that they are not covered, it doesn't matter, they'll probably get amnesty anyways.

"You idiots are going to bankrupt the country. Nice job."

Yeah those Dems aren't fiscally responsible like the Republicans were when they ran the government.

"Even if we believed the lie that they are not covered, it doesn't matter, they'll probably get amnesty anyways."

Well the US Chamber of Commerce and George Bush told us they were only coming here to do jobs Americans won't do. I get a laugh when Republicans whine about illegal immigration after eight years of open borders purposely left open to allow cheap labor into the country.

#14 -Corky lies again. If it isn't a lie, then prove me wrong, shillboy or STFU.

By delaying the start of most health insurance reform benefits, including insurance subsidies and underwriting reformsuntil January 1, 2014 the Reid health care bill creates a real risk of unintended political consequences for the Democrats.

Or, maybe I should have said almost certain consequences that Reid may not have thought of.

On the front end, figuring out he could bring his bill in for under a trillion dollars by collecting ten years of taxes and only providing six years of the most costly benefits sounded good. May not sound so good as the years to 2014 begin to seem like an agonizingly long time.

healthpolicyandmarket.blogspot
.com

-bill has solved the problem of unsustainably high insurance increases?

It's not a cure-all, but insurers will have to compete in the Exchange on premium quality and price with a minimum standard for their policies.

That will be, if nothing else, better than what we have now, 40 to 60 percent increases in some premiums.

#16 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2010-03-18 11:13 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: Newsworthy

This is all about Obam's legacy Diablo, they know the bill is crap, but they can't beat the thought of Obama being a weak president for the next 3 years. Remember, these people are Democrats first, the country be damned.

Pay now. Trust us later. Obamacare

"Okay, so the CBO report sounds promising, but does it show that the bill has solved the problem of unsustainably high insurance increases?"

I think it would be impossible to make our system sustainable with private insurers as the basis of the system. This is just an interim measure to help people until a consensus is built for single payer, IMHO. It's not if, it's when for Medicare Part E.

So can they post the bill now? 2,700+ pages is alot to absorb before Saturday.

No wonder they can't get the votes. LOL.

Dems should market the Bill as, "Tastes Better, Costs Less!", just so even wingnuts get the message.

#2 | Posted by Corky
* * * *

Not just that, but we can all drink more of it!

Why not spend twice as much, and save twice as much? Wouldn't that be an even smarter "investment"?

I love it! We're going to cover an additional 31 million people, improve access, all for less money!

These people must be geniuses. Or, maybe they work for the government . . . . uh oh . . . .

Do nothing and try not to laugh when families lose their homes. Republicancare.

As predicted, Crackfish links to a rwingnut blog that uses Lewin Group or similar industry propogandist numbers.... good job, little buddy.

"It's not a cure-all, but insurers will have to compete in the Exchange on premium quality and price with a minimum standard for their policies."

I'm curious about the controls to prevent price fixing.

- all for less money!

One would think that someone with your financial "genius" could figure out what kind of bulk rates 32 million people can demand instead of what rates one person can get.

I love it! We're going to cover an additional 31 million people, improve access, all for less money!

These people must be geniuses.
#29 | Posted by rightisright

No kidding. You think they could have figured out how to make the U.S. Postal Service a fucking Empire instead of cutting delivery services.

before Saturday

I thought it was Sunday? Either way I killed some trees and printed it out to read as I have been assigned said task by the tax group here. See ya'll on Sunday, I'm sure I'll be reading non-stop from now until then.

Oh-Oh

"The Congressional Budget Office has confirmed that there is currently no official cost estimate. Yet House Democrats are touting to the press and spinning for partisan gain numbers that have not been released and are impossible to confirm. Rep. James Clyburn stated he was 'giddy' about these unsubstantiated numbers. This is the latest outrageous exploitation by the Majority in this case abusing the confidentiality of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office to pass their massive health care overhaul at any cost

corner.nationalreview.com

More he said, she said and we are left directionless as to who is lying.

I think it would be impossible to make our system sustainable with private insurers as the basis of the system. This is just an interim measure to help people until a consensus is built for single payer, IMHO. It's not if, it's when for Medicare Part E.
#26 | Posted by danni

I guess my fingers are crossed for that.

I thought it was Sunday? Either way I killed some trees and printed it out to read as I have been assigned said task by the tax group here.
Posted by taxman

Thank you.
Sincerely, The Hewlett-Packard Toner Division.

Why are they posting the bill for people to read? I thought we would find out what is in it when it becomes law as Pelousy said.

It saves $100 billion only because it uses 10 years of taxes for 6 years of service. Wise up.

The National Review is whining about the numbers slipping out before they are "official"??

lmao!

If the numbers were bad, the NR would have prematurely ejaculated them themselves.

It's called, "investing".
#10 | Posted by Corky

Corky, your popping like Champagne!

"investing", our government is going to take the taxes of the first four years and spend it. You really think they are saving it for the future?

Either that, or this is what I get for posting a Fox News article, lol.

Have they posted the damn thing? I can't find it anywhere. Anyone have a link or was this transparency thing more double speak?

Some fiscally minded lawmakers wanted to see the CBO numbers before deciding how to vote

Imagine waiting to read the actual report instead of going by an estimate of what the report will say.

Tax, the article says they are going to post the reconciliation Bill later today. I'm fucking confused too.

Reuters is reporting the same numbers with a Sunday vote.

www.reuters.com

"Some fiscally minded lawmakers wanted to see the CBO numbers before deciding how to vote and it's unclear whether the estimate changes any minds. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is still several votes short of the 216 needed to pass the Senate-approved package."

Stand down Corky. Hillary is just clearing her throat, not singing yet.

the article says they are going to post the reconciliation Bill later today.

Every freaking hour they delay the release is one less hour I have of sleep this weekend.

Every freaking hour they delay the release is one less hour I have of sleep this weekend.

#49 | Posted by taxman

Why is the word "reconciliation" included? Can't they post the Senate Version or are they up to something?

News conference: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has scheduled a news conference for 12:15 p.m. Thursday.

The price tag: The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that the Democrats' revised health care bill will cost $940 billion over the next 10 years, a House Democratic source told CNN on Thursday. The bill cuts the deficit by $130 billion during that period of time, according to the source.

No vote until Sunday?: House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer said that Democrats will stick to their promise of posting the bill 72 hours before a vote, which would push the vote to Sunday at the earliest.

www.cnn.com

I would imagine that this estimate along with Dennis the K and Michael Moore advocating passage will free up enough votes.

Yeah. Then Moore can help them get re-elected.

Medicare has a $75 Trillion unfunded deficit. If they can't save on Medicare, they sure as hell won't save by expanding Medicare. But children will be children; they love fairy tales. The more fantastic, the more they believe.
Right Corky?

However, House Budget Committee Ranking Republican Paul Ryan (WI) issued the following statement:

"The Congressional Budget Office has confirmed that there is currently no official cost estimate. Yet House Democrats are touting to the press and spinning for partisan gain numbers that have not been released and are impossible to confirm. Rep. James Clyburn stated he was "giddy" about these unsubstantiated numbers. This is the latest outrageous exploitation by the Majority in this case abusing the confidentiality of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office to pass their massive health care overhaul at any cost."

www.humanevents.com

Fuck, old article. My bad.

Wis,
I already posted that quote and they dismissed it because it was from NRO. Maybe Humanevents has more credibility with them.

UPDATE: In a letter sent to Speaker Pelosi this morning, CBO Director Doug Elmendorf remarked:

"Although CBO completed a preliminary review of legislative language prior to its release, the agency has not thoroughly examined the reconciliation proposal to verify its consistency with the previous draft. This estimate is therefore preliminary, pending a review of the language of the reconciliation proposal, as well as further review and refinement of the budgetary projections." (CBO Director Doug Elmendorf, Letter To Rep. Nancy Pelosi, 3/18/10, P.1)

anyone who would vote no when it said one trillion but would when it says ONLY 940 billion is a dupe and a tool of the govt takeover and loss of liberty and freedom

but that wont stop the goddamn dems and thier plantations workers from saying this exact thing
CLYBERN from one of the carolinas said this AM that he was 'downright giddy'.,...

Wis,
I already posted that quote and they dismissed it because it was from NRO. Maybe Humanevents has more credibility with them.

#57 | Posted by kanrei

Corky will claim CBO Director Doug Elmendorf is playing politics...

Wis,
Was just about to post that update. The CBO has not said jack and Pelosi is going off an estimate, not what the CBO actually said.

It seems like the cheerleaders are putting the touchdown on the scoreboard before the ball has been snapped based how they thing the play will go.

Wis,
Was just about to post that update. The CBO has not said jack and Pelosi is going off an estimate, not what the CBO actually said.

#61 | Posted by kanrei

Priceless, isn't it?

Corky, WTF?????????

Don't blame me.... it's a Fox News article, lol!

But Reuters and most other outlets are reporting the same, and if there is any substantive difference between the preliminary and "official" estimates, I'm sure we'll hear all about it.

Like I said above, suppose that are off by 20 percent and it only saves over 100 billion.

So what?

Maybe you can post an article about the NCAA Basketball Champions yet today.

In that case, Texas beat Kentucky at the buzzer.

LOL.

BWAHAHAHA. BOLD Headline.

with data given to it that would make algore proud

but dont worry

THIRTYFIVE STATES now have joined in a constitutional battle and using ObAMAS comments that only leaves TWENTY TWO to go to make it all 57

if you think this 'tainted' info makes a difference then you truely DO care more for the dnc than the usa

Dancing Bananas! I want Dancing Bananas!!

OK, I guess we can save them for if this monster ever passes.

Do nothing and try not to laugh when families lose their homes. Republicancare

danni

when i was in my early twenties i broke by ankle and had no healthcare, i was treated by the same orthepedic doc i had as a child, i paid 10 here 20 there each month until it was paid. my cousin has ms, has insurance, 80/20, which leaves a lot of unpaid bills(8k) he is doing the same, paying 50.00 a month, keeping his house too!!!!

The CBO numbers are just PRELIMINARY.

This bill is still shit either way.

The councils of racistas (la Raza) doeesn't like this bill. They claim illegals are not covered. That is news to me since there is no requirement that people present documentation.

the numbers are for the same senate bill as before so what's the numbers going to be when the two bills are combined? if we can save save $130 billion over the first 10 years after passage and $1.2 trillion over the second decade by paying for 30,000,000 peoples insurance why nor cover 12,000,000 to 20,000,000 illegals and save billions more?

so does this bill mandate 100 co insureance, or 70/30 or 80/20? i mean, if i have 80/20 and have a 100k bill, i'm still on the hook for 20k, how long do i have to pay it? 1 year, 5? that is still 333.00 a month, that could cost me my car, or my home.

it is a joke

Do nothing and try not to laugh when families lose their homes. Republicancare

danni

do nothing but THROW this shit out and then have a commmitte where gop isnt LOCKED OUT of the fuckin room....
and THEN see if your little talking points come true
or just wait until next nov and throw this govt takover into the trash and start over
THEN if it looks like gop wants to not reform ,,.REAL REFORM,..then I will be right here with you calling them whatever names you want me to.

BUT THIS BILL is NOT ABOUT HEALTH CARE and it NEVER HAS BEEN!!!!!

so when 75 million boomers retire and go on medicare, geez we will save bazillions.....

-why nor cover 12,000,000 to 20,000,000 illegals and save billions more?

That would make too much sense. It would allow us to document illegals and make them go thru the immigration process, and save billions because of added buying power.

Wow, the most dishonest headline in DR history. The official CBO report is not out.

"when i was in my early twenties i broke by ankle and had no healthcare,"

That's great Scooter and if the most injury or illness was a broken ankle that would be an answer to our problems but it isn't.

"so does this bill mandate 100 co insureance, or 70/30 or 80/20? i mean, if i have 80/20 and have a 100k bill, i'm still on the hook for 20k"

Wait a minute, I thought you could just pay it off at $50 per month. What's up with that?

This bill sounds like a Win-Win-Win for America. Health care for the insured. A reduction of our deficit. And bitter rightwingers are all having a meltdown. From any angle this looks like a great deal.

"do nothing but THROW this shit out and then have a commmitte where gop isnt LOCKED OUT of the fuckin room...."

We had that, the Senate Finance Committee met for months, many proposals made by REpublicans were included in the bill even though the Rethugs said they would oppose any bill that came out of the committee anyway. REpublicans didn't want to create a health care bill they just wanted to bring down the president. Fuck them!

"when i was in my early twenties i broke by ankle and had no healthcare, i was treated by the same orthepedic doc i had as a child, i paid 10 here 20 there each month until it was paid. my cousin has ms, has insurance, 80/20, which leaves a lot of unpaid bills(8k) he is doing the same, paying 50.00 a month, keeping his house too!!!!
#73 | Posted by scooter28054"

Well thanks for that little story, Scooter. Now run along and let the adults talk. Oh, and by the way, the fact that you had a friendly doc who was willing to work with your poor uninsured ass 38 years ago doesn't really add anything of value to the debate.

That would make too much sense. It would allow us to document illegals and make them go thru the immigration process, and save billions because of added buying power.

#79 | Posted by Corky

and the candy man gives out free candy too...

click your heels and head on back to kansas dorothy

youre dreaming.,...its an effort to get MILLIONS more on the rolls of the dnc and that many more on the OBAMA PLANTATION

"And bitter rightwingers are all having a meltdown."

And secretly isn't that the best part???
I love it!

"And bitter rightwingers are all having a meltdown."

And secretly isn't that the best part???
I love it!

Freedom doesn't die with a whimper, but with a cheer.

Not to sound unreasonable, but i'm sure "cash-for-clunkers" looked great on paper too.

Hard for me to fathom that spending close to 1 trillion outgoing will amount to a savings...especially when it comes to insurance who's intention will be to "fuck it, pay it" mentality.

Sure insurance companies are dicks for denying claims, dropping etc to protect or increase the bottom line profits, but going the exact opposite (pay just about everything, keep everyone regardless of cost) doesn't seem like that solvent of a plan either. Add the fact that it's a govt run program?????

Reality tends to fuck up estimates...especially estimates from govt entities with agendas.

If it has merit, let it stand on its own, dont try to ram it down everyones throat and do an end run to pass it....then again, neither side of the aisle is honorable for the most part (law of averages says at least a few have to be honorable), so guess that part doesn't really matter......

Reminds me of the movie "Hot Fuzz"....do all kinds of unspeakable things "for the greater good"...

Loh

-and the candy man gives out free candy too...

It's the "Muffin Man".... and try to remember the part where you aren't supposed to tell anyone about your alter ego.

In the next 6 months, the freedom for insurers to let children die because they have preexisting conditions will die, yes.

Today Dems lost a vote. Did the media cover that? They covered the sellouts speech yesterday switching from no to yes, but members switching from yes to no? No one cares, nothing to see here move on.

Kanrei believes this is the "death of freedom" LOL

government to hire 12,000 new irs agents,so that makes this a jobs bill.if it reduced the deficit,cuts cost,saves money,lowers health care cost,closes the doughnut hole and gives you better health care,WOW,this should have 100% approval

You idiots are going to bankrupt the country. Nice job.

Idiots with power will be the death of us all.

#4 | Posted by mitch

Actually no.
Passivity and apathy while the idiots continue to bankrupt the country, better known as "good men doing nothing" will be the death of this country.

When one finds they have cancer and opts to do nothing to stop it's progression the outcome is certain.

This country has cancer and no one is opting for chemo, they're sitting around hoping for a miracle.

Like cancer, hope won't fix this problem.

"CBO has not yet completed an assessment of the impact for the longer term of enacting
the reconciliation proposal by itself."
www.cbo.gov

Real Estate Agent: "This beautiful one-bedroom, one-bath house in just $1,000,000."

"Whoa, that's too much money! This house is barely worth $50,000." says the potential buyer.

"Ok, We'll bring the house down to $500,000. I just cut the price in half. Think about it. I just saved you $500,000!!"

"Wow, $500,000 what a deal. I'll take it."

"Great, here's the bill."

Later that year.

"I'm barely making the payments on my new home. I should have realized that saving money, but still spending money on credit, can really hurt." says the unhappy homeowner.

"Don't worry. Good news is coming. I heard they just annexed 200 homes into the city." says his neighbor.

"Why is that so good? More people means more services." says the Unhappy one.

"Well, when you add 200 more homeowners, that means 200 more homeowners paying property taxes. By adding 200 homeowners to the rolls, that should decrease everyone's property tax - you know, spreading the cost around decreases expenses for everyone." says the delusional neighbor.

Kanrei believes this is the "death of freedom" LOL

#92 | Posted by moder8 at 2010-03-18 12:35 PM

You can't read. Let us try again.

Danni said the best part of the billis that it pisses off the opposition. I said freedom dies with a cheer. Am I talking about the bill, or Danni's attitude? Think long and hard; difficult I know, so better let someone tell you the answer instead.

And bitter rightwingers are all having a meltdown."

And secretly isn't that the best part???
I love it!

#86 | Posted by danni at

we are not melting down over anything...and we arent 'giddy' like clybern said

but we are looking forward as we are half through one more day closer to november of 2010..

the day the republic was saved.

"You idiots are going to bankrupt the country. Nice job."

Yeah, let's pass more tax cuts and hey, let's use reconciliation to do it just like the Republicans did. Then later we'll pretend it's a brand new idea that no one ever heard of before.

You are talking about Danni cheering the bitterness of rightwingers at the imminent passage of the healthcare bill. You are indicating therefore that somehow the passage of this bill is the death of freedom. You are in troll-mode.

All Posts by danni

Danni, Obama wants you to write your local newspapers and help him complete the job of ramming his health care down the people's throats.

"Organizing for America (formerly Organizing for Obama) has a Health Reform Action page which encourages members to write a letter to the editor. After typing in your zip code you get a list of local news outlets with radio buttons you can click"

"The next page gives you a large comment box to compose your letter and in the sidebar are a list of suggested talking points"

biggovernment.com

Now remember Danni to re-word those supplied talking points in your own words.

Oh, and as an added bonus Danni, here is Obama's face book with some other ideas for you to follow:

www.facebook.com!/barackobama

Go get 'em girl. Obama depends more on you today than he did yesterday.

"Freedom doesn't die with a whimper, but with a cheer."
"the day the republic was saved."

Are all Republicans drama queens???

You are in illiterate mode.

You are talking about Danni cheering the bitterness of rightwingers at the imminent passage of the healthcare bill.

You should have stopped there.

government to hire 12,000 new irs agents,so that makes this a jobs bill.if it reduced the deficit,cuts cost,saves money,lowers health care cost,closes the doughnut hole and gives you better health care,WOW,this should have 100% approval

#93 | Posted by semtex111

see corky about the 'muffin man'...

If those things were true, maybe........BUT FOR GOODNESS SAKES...surely you arent happy that there might be 12,000 more aMERIcAN GESTAPO agents around

OH they will need them because the IRS will be after your ass if you dont BUY that insurance and move to the obama plantation

HEY DANNI...this is fun though...wait until nov and lets read all of the whiney ass pussy dems trying to tell us what happened...

Are all Republicans drama queens???

Posted by danni at 2010-03-18 12:40 PM

I am not a Republican, but you Cheerleaders certainly are making a showing.

"Organizing for America (formerly Organizing for Obama) has a Health Reform Action page which encourages members to write a letter to the editor. After typing in your zip code you get a list of local news outlets with radio buttons you can click"

I'm sure he is the first politician to do something like that. BTW, I've never even visited his facebook page, I never look at any facebook page.

Are all Republicans drama queens???

#102 | Posted by danni at 2010

nope

the QUEENS are on cnn....drama...well maybe,...

"I am not a Republican"

Ok, fair enough, an independent drama queen.

danni 106

watch for danni post soon on the 'astroturf' tea parties but forgetting about this SOROS paid group who kissed the royal black ass...

"HEY DANNI...this is fun though...wait until nov and lets read all of the whiney ass pussy dems trying to tell us what happened..."

Someone is counting their chickens before they are hatched.

Danni,

You KNOW had the RNC acted like this based on a CBO ESTIMATE, you would say "let's wait for the real report." You know you would. You are letting the partisan overtake the reasonable and honest part of you.

I'm curious about the controls to prevent price fixing.

Once the antitrust status of medical insurance providers has been removed, price fixing will be illegal. It doesn't mean that price fixing won't occur; just that it will be illegal. Strong enforcement will be required.

From what I understand, the concept of a medical insurance exchange was a Republican idea adopted by the Democrats and incorporated into the bill. It is relying on competition and creates a level playing field, with minimum standards, for all participants. Why would the Republicans / conservatives object to fair competition?

I believe that the reason Republicans are fighting so hard to prevent this bill from passing is because they fear being exposed as liars and obstructionists. Americans will ask Republicans to explain why they misrepresented the bill. It will finally become apparent to all, even their most ardent supporters, that Republicans care more about the party and ideology than they do about their constituents. Once the true motives of Republicans have been exposed, their party will become even more marginalized.

If the bill passes, Democrats will be okay in November.

"watch for danni post soon on the 'astroturf' tea parties"

Yeah, did you see that clip of the teabaggers harrassing the guy with Parkinson's Disease.
Nice, real nice.

Someone is counting their chickens before they are hatched.

#110 | Posted by danni

You are. This is an estimate, not a report. The same CBO being touted here for what you think they have said have also said that this report is not final the Democrats have jumped the gun. Selective belief on your part it seems.

"I am not a Republican"

Ok, fair enough, an independent drama queen.

#108 | Posted by danni

What is happening here perfectly illustrates what is happening in congress. It isn't Republicans that are stoping this bill (because they don't have the votes) it's Democrtas fighting amongst themselves.

When Dems fight amongst themselves, just sick back and let them.

Who has read the entire bill?

The same number that read the NIE?

Where is Nullifidian? He'll set Kanrei straight and get him to knock off all this wichy washy stuff, lol!

Budget Office estimates health care bill to cost $940 billionMarch 18, 2010 12:02 p.m. EDT

Washington (CNN) -- A long-awaited compromise health care bill drafted by top Democrats will cost $940 billion over the next 10 years, according to a preliminary analysis released Thursday by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

www.cnn.com

But, but it's not the Official report, Boo F-ing Hoo!!

So will the House and Senate let the CBO rate the reconciliation revisions before voting, or is there no time for that exercise?

The Candians are dancing in the streets, because now the Hockey players that left will come back once the taxes here go up.

Remember Canada taxes sky rocketed after they passed health care, so the hockey players along with everyone else that had marketable skills, and they are only paying for 7 million.

"You KNOW had the RNC acted like this based on a CBO ESTIMATE, you would say "let's wait for the real report."

You mean like:

"Bush Administration Ordered Medicare Plan Cost Estimates Withheld
by Tony Pugh

WASHINGTON - The government's top expert on Medicare costs was warned that he would be fired if he told key lawmakers about a series of Bush administration cost estimates that could have torpedoed congressional passage of the White House-backed Medicare prescription-drug plan."

www.commondreams.org

And no, you're wrong, the preliminary report is fine and is more information than most members of the House will even read.

Corky quotes CNN

"CBO has not yet completed an assessment of the impact for the longer term of enacting
the reconciliation proposal by itself."

I quote the CBO.

www.cbo.gov

Nice try corky

"Are all Republicans drama queens???
#102 | Posted by danni"

No. Some are just queens.

"This is an estimate, not a report. The same CBO being touted here for what you think they have said have also said that this report is not final the Democrats have jumped the gun.
#114 | Posted by kanrei"

Are these types of estimates usually far off the mark or something? I assume that if they release an estimate, the report itself will be pretty similar. Do you have reason to believe otherwise, Kanrei?

Yeah, did you see that clip of the teabaggers harrassing the guy with Parkinson's Disease.
Nice, real nice.

#113 | Posted by danni at 2010

was that sort of like the daily show report or colbert

you know liberal HARD hitting journalists...

was that sort of like the daily show report or colbert

So it did happen?

dont forget

DOUBLE counting of medicare so called saving makes this conclusion more like algore's shit than the honest truth.

and the mother of them all..ten years of paying for it and 6 years of benefits....and you DUPES ARe falling for it like a fly on shit.

75% of the people in America have their blood boiling every time an announcement like this comes out. We are witnessing the complete destruction of the democratic party, and it's dying with thunderous applause, pats on the back, and high-fives. Every vote for this destruction of America will end a career and this administration could not care less.

But, not to worry. It will be struck down as unconstitutional anyway, but the damage will have already been done as the opinion polls show. This will just be the final nail in the coffin for a party gone off the rails and over the cliff. Incredible political history will be made in November and the following years.

point was danni eating up anything from obama ass kissers.

ah but its time once again for

LUNCH....

SO LONG SUCKERS....you poor dupes....and its YOU who are supposed to be so fuckin smart??????

hasta la pasta

-Nice try corky

There is no "Try", Kanrei. The CNN link states it is a preliminary report.

This report is good enough for every major news outlet, but not good enough for a thread headline here?

If the numbers change, I'm sure we'll find out.

But assume they are off 20 percent. Is 100 billion saved not good enough?

"was that sort of like the daily show report or colbert"

Not surprised you hven't seen it, I doubt they would show it on Fox.

Here is the video of the Tea Partiers and the guy with Parkinsons.

thinkprogress.org

I saw it baby........

and this is just the dnc lying thier ass off and putting the numbers in where they think the people are so fuckin stupid they wont know that the data given to the cbo from dems is a sham and lies and bullshit from the liar in chief..
and just like kucinich...was there EVER A DOUBT they would get it to say what they wanted...no reflection on cbo because they do with what dems give them..

bullshit...total bullshit

but TOMORROW we will see what the OBAMA PLANTATION has in store for us

My top 5 reasons the current healthcare bill must NOT be passed:

1) Government-paid healthcare (or health insurance) is NOT a right. It is a TRAP, and an excuse to collect and control more tax dollars. Healthcare, like food, is a product/service that we need throughout our lives; we may choose to purchase basics or more costly options, but the market choices and the accompanying cost burdens are rightly our own.

2) The free market benefits everyone. Monopolies (especially government monopolies) harm everyone. (One of the problems at the moment is the market is not free enough insurers are not permitted to compete across state lines)

3) Contrary to what some are saying, insurance choices (the free market) will disappear under the proposed legislation. Private companies cannot compete with subsidized entities. Government insurance will drive all others out of business by collecting more taxes from you and then offering lower prices than the private insurers can sustain - until private insurers are gone - then just watch what will happen to the quality and tax burden.

4) Now, you can seek damages for malpractice. If government takes the helm, such recourse will eventually but inevitably disappear.

5) Much better alternatives exist that do not compromise the free market and do not involve government in the healthcare or insurance businesses, in other words, alternatives that avoid all the pitfalls of the legislation currently under consideration.

I dont believe a fuckin thing put out by a group with the word progress in it...

"I dont believe a fuckin thing put out by a group with the word progress in it.."

Now Fox News....THERE'S something to believe in!!

Pffft

Fuck the democrats and fuck the republicans.

Fuck this bill for doing nothing.

My personal health insurance is going up anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000 depending on how much I use it. This will cause pain to the hurts family.

Fuck em all, starting with the health insurance companies.

Laugh if you want, you will probably be next.

Now Fox News....THERE'S something to believe in!!

Pffft

#136 | Posted by Lisa

Did you read the article at the top? LOL!

The free market benefits everyone.

yeah, just see how the free market benefited everyone a year and a half ago on wall street.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FREE MARKET

Do you have reason to believe otherwise, Kanrei?

Just the fact that the CBO is stressing that this is an estimate and not the report.

One of the problems at the moment is the market is not free enough insurers are not permitted to compete across state lines)

That is what we need for all the insurance companies to park in Delaware and then give us crap at high costs.

Some people dont get it.

Capitalism is INCONSISTENT with some activities-health care, basic education, national defense, to name a few.

Also, the CBO has NOT INCLUDED PELOSI's CHANGES.

This estimate is therefore preliminary, pending a review of the language of the reconciliation proposal, as well as further review and
refinement of the budgetary projections

Nope, I didn't Wisgod.

I just read the comment section at this point, found humor in the comment that was made and responded.

This estimate is therefore preliminary, pending a review of the language of the reconciliation proposal, as well as further review and
refinement of the budgetary projections

#142 | Posted by kanrei

I can't wait to see what Dennis K. was promised in the way of reconciliation. Of course I'm sure it will save another 20% like Corky claims.

"One of the problems at the moment is the market is not free enough insurers are not permitted to compete across state lines)"

Yeah, it's a real problem that some states actually have some good regulations of health insurance companies....if only they could all sell across state lines we could eliminate all those pesky regulations. Selling health insurance across state lines is code for eliminating all state regulations of health insurance companies.

#141 | Posted by truthhurts
Capitalism is INCONSISTENT with some activities-health care, basic education, national defense, to name a few.
-------------------
An't that the truth

Why don't we just insure all 6.5 billion people on the planet? Think how much money we could save then!

if only they could all sell across state lines we could eliminate all those pesky regulations.

Ironically Danni, selling across state lines would empower Congress to act as it would then be "interstate commerce."

"Capitalism is INCONSISTENT with some activities-health care, basic education, national defense, to name a few."

I agree with you but the right has spent millions over decades convincing people that even thinking that some things are actually done better in a non-capitalist way means we are Marxists who hate America, apple pie, mom, and even Jesus Christ.

"Yeah, it's a real problem that some states actually have some good regulations of health insurance companies" - Danni

How do you resolve the conflict between this statement, the fact that those same states have the highest health insurance rates, which you oppose?

"Ironically Danni, selling across state lines would empower Congress to act as it would then be "interstate commerce."

Isn't that what the Exchange does, if you recall at the health care summit the REpublicans objected to there being minimum standards associated with it and Obama explained why those standards are important.

The pissing and moaning we are seeing from rightwingers at this moment is nothing compared to what we will see the day President Obama signs his healthcare legislation into law. Which in turn is nothing compared to the pissing and moaning the same rightwingers will do come this November when, despite all their stupid predictions, the Republicans do not take control of both Houses of Congress. Neocons have destroyed the GOP. And nothing the rightwing hijacked teaparty folk do now can save it.

I love it.

Neocons have destroyed the GOP.

And are now doing it to the DNC. Big government as far as they eye can see.

How about a courtesy flush, Moder8?

I see Corky is smoking crack again. There is simply no way this bill will reduce the deficit but Corky believes it will.

All it will do is reduce the quality of healthcare for everyone and bankrupt the country already. Oh, excuse me Obama has already bankrupted us we just don't know it yet because the letter telling us so has not arrived in the mail yet.

Lets see what will really happen:

Government will cut 500 billion from medicare for seniors! Check!

Doctors, hospitals, and pharmacies will stop taking medicare and medicaid. I think several pharmacies have already done this to medicaid patients. Check!

Liberals cry about insurance companies day and night. Yet insurance companies reimburse hospitals and doctors with larger payments than medicare or medicaid. Now Obama wants to cut medicare reimbursements and not a peep out of liberal democrats. Why? Because they don't really care they just want to control our lives, tell us what to eat, drink, do, think, where to shit, what to say, etc.

Liberal socialist like Obama know that by taking so much of your money that you can't function in your daily lives you will need them and do what they say in order to get some of your money back in services. The is the evil rot that socialism causes. Our government has grown to large and must be taken back by the people because our leaders are no longer concerned about the will of the people. This health care bill is proof of that.

But don't worry ole corkster says we can trust fearless leader Obama cos he has our best interest at heart and he is smarter than all the rest of us combined.

I was going to post this as a separate thread. But it fits in well with this thread and the impact of the teabaggers on the GOPs effort to fight healthcare being afforded to millions of uninsured Americans.

news.yahoo.com

-There is simply no way this bill will reduce the deficit but Corky believes it will.

The CBO and top industry economic forecasters believe it will.

Butzkisser believes his lobotomy has had no deleterious effect on his thinking... and he is prolly correct.

Who benefits? While the socialists bitch about the insurance companies who are being squeezed with higher costs, Big Pharma is making out like a bandit.

Let's look at those profits. Drug makers' combined profit margin last year was 22.2 percent, compared with insurers' 4.4 percent. Drug maker Merck's net income, $12.9 billion, exceeds that of the 10 largest insurers combined.

- can't wait to see what Dennis K. was promised in the way of reconciliation.

He was guaranteed never to have to read WisGod's Compiled Posts Vol 1.... and he signed off right away.

This bill is a joke. It has NOTHING to do with "health care reform." It has EVERYTHING to do with lining the pockets of the health insurance industry. It forces, by law, every American who isn't old or destitute to buy health insurance if their boss doesn't provide it. Michael Moore

The CBO and top industry economic forecasters believe it will.
#157 | Posted by Corky at 2010-03-18 01:40 PM | Reply | Flag: Still believes in the tooth fairy.

I remember when the same group said Medicare would save money. Now it's $74 trillion in a hole. I guess that hole isn't deep enough.

This estimate is therefore preliminary, pending a review of the language of the reconciliation proposal, as well as further review and
refinement of the budgetary projections
CBO

I don't suppose anyone would care to name a 'Neocon" in the DNC?

Thought not.

DNC- Is that dirt or quicksand?

CBO- Well, prelimiary studies show it is probably dirt...

DNC goes running off

CBO-...but, after gathering all the data, we find it to be quicksand.

He was guaranteed never to have to read WisGod's Compiled Posts Vol 1.... and he signed off right away.

#159 | Posted by Corky

Yeah, I don't post much about UFO's so I can understand why that sawed-off runt would sign off.

I remember when Ray said that THIS recession, the one that started in Dec of '07, would cause the Dow to reach a low of 1400 points..... another fine economic forecast from the friendly paranoids at Raystradamus, Inc.

The CBO and top industry economic forecasters believe it will.

Butzkisser believes his lobotomy has had no deleterious effect on his thinking... and he is prolly correct.

#157 | Posted by Corky

The CBO has no veracity as relates to past performance of predicting performance of programs---this means squat and if any one thinks so, they belong in Corky's fantasyland. The results are based on an unrealistic economical recovery and environment.

#164

Absurdism.

There is little difference in the details of the reconcilables, everyone who is part of the process knows the valuations on the programs under consideration .... and that the likelihood of major differences between the preliminary and final reports is negligible.

But don't worry, there will be substantive things to whine about later.

There is little difference in the details of the reconcilables,

ROFLMAO! Corky should just post "Rah Rah GO TEAM GO! GO D! COME ON D!" and it would have more value. Amazing how he knows everything about a bill that NOT ONE PERSON IN GOVERNMENT knows everything about.

What can we really expect from someone who places more value in what CNN says about the CBO than what the CBO actually says?

I remember when Ray said that THIS recession, the one that started in Dec of '07, would cause the Dow to reach a low of 1400 points..... another fine economic forecast from the friendly paranoids at Raystradamus, Inc.
#166 | Posted by Corky

Yes, Corky. A rising sea of debt can even lift the stock market. Many times, I posted a video of Bernanke making one false prediction after another. Of course, you ignored that. Dream on little boy.

But of course, that has nothing to do with Medicare's $74 trillion deficit. (federal income~$2 trillion yearly) Imagine what the deficit will be when the expand Medicare?

Private companies cannot compete with subsidized entities.

What subsidized entities?

ROFLMAO! Corky should just post "Rah Rah GO TEAM GO! GO D! COME ON D!" and it would have more value. Amazing how he knows everything about a bill that NOT ONE PERSON IN GOVERNMENT knows everything about.

#169 | Posted by kanrei

Robert Gibbs talks in his sleep.

"The CBO has no veracity as relates to past performance of predicting performance of programs---this means squat and if any one thinks so, they belong in Corky's fantasyland."

"CBO's Economic Forecasting Record
An evaluation of the economic forecasts
CBO made from January 1976 through January 2004
November 2006

A R E P O R T"

74.6.239.67

"But of course, that has nothing to do with Medicare's $74 trillion deficit."

How many years is that computed for???

So, let's assume, for argument's sake, that it has validity. If Medicare would have such a deficit then if there were no Medicare then the people who receive Medicare would have to spend that much money for health care services. I find it difficult to believe either the amount of the deficit or that were there no Medicare that much money could even be available to those people much less actually spent by them.

Teabagger Party keeping it classy as usual.

www.youtube.com

Teabagger Party keeping it classy as usual.

www.youtube.com

#176 | Posted by Reagan58

It's already been posted, Chief.

If this bill passes and the Republicans can't overturn it, this will be the end of America as a superpower.

Every dollar of profit will go to health care, just like in Canada, England, and some of Europe.

Health care is just a service, and nothing more than that, you can't stay number one when your pouring all the available resources into a service.

1st the taxes will go up, then NASA will get huge cuts, and the defense budget will be slashed.
This is how it happened in Canada and Europe.

Just like in England, they wonder how they went from the worlds greates sea power, to a 2nd rate, Americans in the future will ask the same questions.

HISTORY IN THE MAKING!

From Danni's #174

Since publishing its first macroeconomic forecast in 1976, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has compiled a forecasting track record comparable in quality
with that of the Blue Chipconsensus (an average of pri-vate-sector forecasters) as well as that of the Administra-tion. In particular, CBO's accuracy for two-year forecasts made between 1982 and 2004 did not differ markedly ei-ther from that of the Blue Chipconsensus or from that of the Administration over those years. The accuracy of
CBO's five-year projections also was similar (see Table 1
on page 12). Comparing CBO's forecasts with those of the Blue Chip consensus suggests that when the agency's economic predictions missed by the largest margin, those inaccuracies probably reflected problems that all forecast-
ers had in predicting turning points in the business cycle

"If this bill passes and the Republicans can't overturn it, this will be the end of America as a superpower."

Even if that were true I'd rather have a country with health care than be a super power. What good is being a super power if you can't afford to go to the doctor. How can a nation even call itself a super power if it can't supply good health care to all of its citizens???

"Comparing CBO's forecasts with those of the Blue Chip consensus suggests that when the agency's economic predictions missed by the largest margin, those inaccuracies probably reflected problems that all forecast-"

In other words it's the best predictor available from either a public or private entity and that no predictor could be 100% accurate ESPECIALLY considering that there is no way to predict the election of a lunatic who will cut taxes during two wars like Bush did.

How can a nation even call itself a super power if it can't supply good health care to all of its citizens?

We can. What we can't do is stop all the stupid choices peoople make that hurts their health. McDonald's 6 days a week. Not excersizing. That Red Bull. That Bacon. You do not have a right to good health, you have a right to choose to be healthy or not.

How can a nation even call itself a super power if it can't supply good health care to all of its citizens???

#180 | Posted by danni

We won't have to worry about being called a Democracy either.

"But of course, that has nothing to do with Medicare's $74 trillion deficit."
How many years is that computed for???

Don't know exactly. That calculation is based on the accounting standards insurance companies are required to use by law. Two other factors are coming into play. One, are the mass layoff that cut into the revenue stream. The other is the baby boom generation inching close to retirement age.

The federal government operates on a cash flow basis. With income around $2 trillion dollars, this trend can't be sustained.

If Medicare would have such a deficit then if there were no Medicare then the people who receive Medicare would have to spend that much money for health care services.

Someday, I'll compile a list of the ways government drives up demand, costs and drives down supply.

Actually, if the healthcare reform bill is enacted, it will prove that democracy in America is alive, healthy and well. Only after a lengthy (one year) debate and a great deal of compromise will it have come to fruition. (The GOP obstruction tactics notwithstanding,)

In other words it's the best predictor available from either a public or private entity and that no predictor could be 100% accurate ESPECIALLY considering that there is no way to predict the election of a lunatic who will cut taxes during two wars like Bush did.

Either way, those predictions are useless. Past experience is a better predicter. It tells us government is incapable of managing money.

Past experience is a better predicter

It also tells us that bad bills that get passed because "we need to pass something" tend to become bad laws and remain on the books for years and years and years.

So what is creating most of our deficit right now, the cost of being a super power involved in two foreign wars or the cost of Medicare???

Actually, if the healthcare reform bill is enacted, it will prove that democracy in America is alive, healthy and well.

When a majority of Americans find that it is easier to vote for a living rather than work for a living, I wouldn't exactly call that healthy. It's more akin to mob rule.

"Past experience is a better predicter. It tells us government is incapable of managing money."

Depends on which past experience, if you only want to look at the experience since Ronald REagan that is one thing but if you want to go back to Roosevelt it is completely different. Like I said, there is no way to predict that a lunatic will get elected and cut taxes so much that it makes it impossible to balance the budget. Any corporation that had management like Reagan or Bush would have fired them immediately upon looking at their proposals for tax (income) cuts while both wanted to increase defense spending.

It is the spending dumbfucks. Obama and the Dems should get a job doing a magic act in Vegas. This entire healthcare shove is nothing more than the libs trying to make your money, choice and liberty disappear Just because David Copperfield makes you think he made the Statue of Liberty disappear doesn't make it so.

Uninsured people wanting affordable health insurance is mob rule? Wow. A majority of elected legislators voting in favor of such insurance is mob rule? Wow. I guess you and I define mob rule differently.

"When a majority of Americans find that it is easier to vote for a living rather than work for a living, I wouldn't exactly call that healthy. It's more akin to mob rule."

A majority hasn't made such a choice by any stretch of the imagination. Now, more realistically, when a nation decides to outsource the jobs of its citizens then that nation shouldn't be surprised when it comes up short on tax revenues.

"It is the spending dumbfucks."

Simplistic talking point repeater. When you have an actual thought of your own then post it.

#182 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-03-18 02:22 PM |

People don't understand that. They think they have a right to whatever it is that they don't have, but want really bad.

There are a lot of false rights out there that people take to be rights, they are nothing more than hopes or wishes.

Health is partially under their control, and when it is their fault that it is failing, they should expect to pay higher premiums. Now, there may be people that help them out in their circumstances, but people should not be forced, against their will, to help them in that situation.

If someone wants health care because they are suffering complications of overeating, they must be willing to take every step necessary to stop that. otherwise they are looking for a free ride.

Same with some diabetes. If you are not willing to do anything about it and are simply going to use medication and do whatever you want, that is not acceptable.

America has never had a problem with rewarding bad behavior, this is more of the same.

Water Carriers like Moder8 always forget to explain to the rest of us simpletons why if it was such a great bill, the Democrats needed to buy votes from the members of their own Party.

So what is creating most of our deficit right now, the cost of being a super power involved in two foreign wars or the cost of Medicare???
#188 | Posted by danni

If I remember correctly, Medicare and SS acount for 55% of federal spending, the military about 20%, but more is hidden in Homeland Security.

I'm going to remind you again, that the feds are running a Ponzi Scheme through the Federal Reserve. The dollar is a unit of debt that has to expand to keep it from collapsing. With deficits now in the trillions, small percentage increases escalate very fast. It's like a Toyota with a stuck accelerator pedal.

The 72 hour clock is ticking

rules.house.gov

"If I remember correctly, Medicare and SS acount for 55% of federal spending,"

Not so fast, SS has more than paid for itself, the federal government presently owes SS 2.5 Trillion.

"Same with some diabetes. If you are not willing to do anything about it and are simply going to use medication and do whatever you want, that is not acceptable."

My oldest daughter has diabetes but she controls it without meds with diet and exercise but that still doesn't prevent the insurance company from calling it a pre-existing condition.

"The 72 hour clock is ticking"

tick tick tick......kaboom!

You know what that kaboom is.....heads exploding!

The manifold ways in which rightwingers are finding to express their whiny dissatisfaction, even on an obscure board such as this one, is delightful for me to observe. I haven't had this much fun reading whiny rightwing posts since President Obama won by a landslide.

You know what that kaboom is.....heads exploding!

#201 | Posted by danni

I would have guessed the Iceberg that is going to rupture our hull.

A majority hasn't made such a choice by any stretch of the imagination. Now, more realistically, when a nation decides to outsource the jobs of its citizens then that nation shouldn't be surprised when it comes up short on tax revenues.
#193 | Posted by danni

Americans have to compete in a world economy. If we can't, then unemployment has to rise. We don't live in an Eden where money grows on trees.

You corrup dems be on notice, Coburn is taking names:

content.usatoday.com

Health is partially under their control, and when it is their fault that it is failing, they should expect to pay higher premiums

#195 | Posted by ExpsRedemption
==========
EP...What if it's not their fault?

I would have guessed the Iceberg that is going to rupture our hull.

Don't worry about the iceberg, most of it is underwater =D

Glad you're having fun Moder8. You certainly are a simple son of a bitch.

There will be 12,000 IRS jobs to the tune of $1BILLION per year available if this bill passes:

healthcare.nationalreview.com

WOOT!

Dems defeat Repub amendment to get rid of Slaugther rule.

Dems will get slaughtered in November.

#202 - more and more are sorrier every day.

#188 | Posted by danni

So what is creating most of our deficit right now, the cost of being a super power involved in two foreign wars or the cost of Medicare???
-------------
Not that I support the wars, but wars don't last forever, and eventually they are paid off, and their protecting our interest which makes us wealthy and keeps us number 1.

Entitlements don't ever go way and constantly get more expensive, and create people who don't want to excell.

Go back and take a history class, when England was number 1 did they have a huge military? Yes. Were the envolved in Wars? Yes to protect thier interest so they could stay number 1. Did they have health care for everyone paid for by the tax payers? No.

REMEBER THIS DAY HISTORY IN THE MAKING

The manifold ways in which rightwingers are finding to express their whiny dissatisfaction, even on an obscure board such as this one, is delightful for me to observe. I haven't had this much fun reading whiny rightwing posts since President Obama won by a landslide.

And what is that "whiny dissatisfaction," Moder8? That America is going broke?

Crushing narrow minded hate filled derisive rightwingers is a good thing. It is a good day.
Thanks CBO for the impartial nonpartisan confirmation of what we have been saying for quite some time now.

wars don't last forever, and eventually they are paid off, and their protecting our interest which makes us wealthy and keeps us number 1.

Used to be's don't count anymore. They just lay on the floor to be sweepen away.

Wars today are fought to create enemies of tomorrow to continue our addiction to the newest and deadliest weapons known.

Thanks CBO for the impartial nonpartisan confirmation of what we have been saying for quite some time now.

#214 | Posted by moder8 at 2010-03-18 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag: Has obviously not read what the CBO actually says

REMEBER THIS DAY HISTORY IN THE MAKING

#212 | Posted by 90c2cab

I will certainly "remeber" it.

I am enjoying it immensely...just like I did when Obama defeated your NOPER misinformation campaign last time.

The popcorn machine has been running full blast all morning.

There will be 12,000 IRS jobs to the tune of $1BILLION per year available if this bill passes.

That's what Obama means when he says the health care bill creates new jobs.

#202 | Posted by moder8
The manifold ways in which rightwingers are finding to express their whiny dissatisfaction, even on an obscure board such as this one, is delightful for me to observe. I haven't had this much fun reading whiny rightwing posts since President Obama won by a landslide.
-----------
I was on an English blog site discussing how England went from number 1 to 2nd rate, and some posted an article by a British paper from the 40's saying that if we go down this health care path, we will no longer be number 1.

And it will delightful to repost this (thats if I'm still alive) when America goes from number 1 to a 2nd rate power.

#205 | Posted by mitch
==

Democracy in action

NEW RULE: Republican Coburn style

1.vote no on a bill
2.bill is changed by amendments
3.you must vote no again

"Not that I support the wars, but wars don't last forever, and eventually they are paid off, and their protecting our interest which makes us wealthy and keeps us number 1."

When the war in Iraq makes us wealthy let me know.
Ridiculous.

"Americans have to compete in a world economy."

By subsidizing oil and making it so cheap that transportaion costs do not take away the advantage of cheap labor. Let oil prices rise again liek they were, when gas rose to $4.00 per gallon, it was then beginning to cut into the advantage of cheap labor and make it about the same cost to manufacture some goods here instead of ship raw materials to China and finished good back here.
Be aware, when a nation begins being an exporter or raw materials instead of finished goods they are well on their way to second world status.

If you can afford an ISP fee, don't complain you can't afford medical insurance and costs.

If you can't prioritize your expenses, don't expect others to cover your thoughtlessness.

The popcorn machine has been running full blast all morning.

#217 | Posted by donnerboy

Enjoy it. That machine won't give you anything more than a bowl full of duds in November.

When the war in Iraq makes us wealthy let me know.
Ridiculous.

See Danni, we still have common ground =D

Passage of Healthcare reform will be a victory for the American people. It will also be an astounding victory for President Obama and the leftwing of American politics. In fact, the ability to pass major needed legislation may insure that the leftwing remains ascendant in US politics for the next decade.

I hope Moder8 doesn't pull a Layne Staley and O.D. today.

PetRock,

When you find a health insurance company that will sell you health insurance for a family for #24.95/month, then you can resume your parrot squalking.

Until then, Shut the Fuck Up!!!

From Mitch's link above:

"Coburn just told reporters he'll use his senatorial perogative to block the nominations of any lawmakers who change their votes from "no" to "yes" on health care should the president subsequently tap them for a federal post. Just in case any of them are considering that an option should things not work out for them in the November elections."

That's the REpublican Party I remember.

"If you can afford an ISP fee, don't complain you can't afford medical insurance and costs."

People can get insurance for $29.95/ month? Get TF outta here! Where do I sign up?

I'm kind of in troll-mode right now. Seeing how much the ascendancy of the healthcare bill is completely pissing off the wingnuts on this site, I figure I might as well rub it in.

Why is the word "reconciliation" included? Can't they post the Senate Version or are they up to something?

#50 | Posted by wisgod

The Senate bill has been online since last year. I know I've linked it several times, as have others:

dpc.senate.gov

The 'reconciliation' portion is only the 'fixes' the Senate will vote on:

Reconciliation Bill

New Rule:

R-turd offers up amendment and votes yes on amendment. Amendment added to bill.

Said R-turd votes no on bill. Amendment is automatically removed from bill and bill passes without the amendment.

Simple.

2 out of the first 3 games in the tourney went to O.T. Boy, am I pissed off.

"I was on an English blog site discussing how England went from number 1 to 2nd rate, and some posted an article by a British paper from the 40's saying that if we go down this health care path, we will no longer be number 1."

Who cares. What does being number one do for any of us here??? Hitler tried to be number 1. And gee whiz, excuse me if I'm not impressed with "some article by a Bristh paper from the 40's."

M8,

The Whizzer is just mindlessly repeating the Babbler's talking points. He knows the bill has been posted for months.

You know things are getting desperate when BL2 is pulling the DR R-turd brigade strings!!!

I'm kind of in troll-mode right now. Seeing how much the ascendancy of the healthcare bill is completely pissing off the wingnuts on this site, I figure I might as well rub it in.

#230 | Posted by moder8 at 2010-03-18 03:09 PM | Reply | Flag: Tsk. Tsk. That admission gives lawyers a bad name.

4 quarters of Basketball is mostly a big waste of time.

They should just start the clock at 3 minutes and play from there.

Decolonisation re: freedom was the cause of the British demise

They should just start the clock at 3 minutes and play from there.

#237 | Posted by axe

That would fly if everyone had A.D.D. like you do.

That would fly if everyone had A.D.D. like you do.

#239 | Posted by wisgod at 2010-03-18 03:18 PM

My A.D.D. wouldn't let me finish that sen....look, a bird outside!

They should just start the clock at 3 minutes and play from there.

#237 | Posted by axe

That would fly if everyone had A.D.D. like you do.

#239 | Posted by wisgod

Or if he was a homophobe, like he is.

#180 | Posted by danni
How can a nation even call itself a super power if it can't supply good health care to all of its citizens???
------------
It's funny that you said this, because on the Sunday moorning political shows on the 3 networs, when a moderate or a conservative said this bill will wipe out Americas supper power status, the liberals on the same show uttered your statements similar to yours.

You Libers think a like.

HISTORY IN THE MAKING

By subsidizing oil and making it so cheap that transportaion costs do not take away the advantage of cheap labor. Let oil prices rise again liek they were, when gas rose to $4.00 per gallon, it was then beginning to cut into the advantage of cheap labor and make it about the same cost to manufacture some goods here instead of ship raw materials to China and finished good back here.
Be aware, when a nation begins being an exporter or raw materials instead of finished goods they are well on their way to second world status.
#221 | Posted by danni

For other reasons, that's what I've been saying for years. A cheap dollar is not market driven; it is government policy. Having the reserve currency of the world enabled us to buy imports cheap. That day is coming to an end.

I'm sorry if you don't like it, but if you can afford an ISP but you can't afford medical, then you have your priorities in the wrong place.

Sure, you can complain that $24.95 won't pay for insurance. But, it can go towards a medical bill.

If you have cable, dump it.
If you go out to eat, buy groceries and eat at home.

If you smoke or drink, quit.

The choices you make are your own stupid choices.

You want the gov't to help you stand up, sure. I'm all for helping someone up.

This is just BS that the gov't has to provide you your care at the expense of all.

If you are unemployed, your employer paid for your insurance, not you.

Life insurance - do you expect that, too?
How about giving you a house, food on the table, clothes on your back.

Get a job. If you really think you can't find one, you ain't looking. If illegals can find work, you ain't trying.

the liberals on the same show uttered your statements similar to yours.

You Libers think a like.

No, Partisans love talking points. See GNOP. See "Democrats hate the military."

Meanwhile, Boehner speaks at a banker's convention and tells them not to give in to 'punk staffers' involved in banking reform.

On Thursday, White House senior adviser Larry Summers came to the defense of "punk staffers" trying to write new financial regulatory reform legislation, pushing back against House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) who told the banking industry a day earlier that Wall Street shouldn't let such aides push it around. "Don't let those little punk staffers take advantage of you, and stand up for yourselves," Boehner told that vase-full of wilting lilies known as the American Bankers.."

politifi.com

Who's on the side of our citizens and who's fighting for all their might for bankers and Wall Street? The GOP shows their ass every chance they get. Fools.

www.smartmoney.com

$24.95/month ISP
Cable - I know idiots who pay over $100 a month for this but complain they have no money.

The work is there for pay.

This is just BS that the gov't has to provide you your care at the expense of all.

I'll be paying for mine just as I do now. The difference is we'll be getting a better plan for a better price thanks to being in a pool of millions. The insurance industry will no longer be able to justify the additional $1000 per person to cover those who go to ER's. That's $1000 a person less in premiums for those getting health insurance through their companies.

VERN's country of choice, Taiwan, provides health care for all.

Price? $650 per family per year. $1.50 dental/$7 top co-pay for prescriptions. Open to anyone who's lived there a minimum of 4 months.

Same life expectancy as the U.S.

"Get a job. If you really think you can't find one, you ain't looking. If illegals can find work, you ain't trying."

I am as liberal as anyone but I find myself agreeing with Petrous on some of that. My daughter runs group homes, some of her employees prefer unemployment to working. They drive new cars and live in Section 8 housing. If Democrats would do a better job of policing things like unemployment, SS disability, Section 8 housing, etc. it would be easier to create a powerful majority that could make real changes that would help everyone.

"Coburn just told reporters he'll use his senatorial perogative to block the nominations of any lawmakers who change their votes from "no" to "yes" on health care should the president subsequently tap them for a federal post.

Actually, this is a good idea because at least one Democrat is going to reciprocate when there is a Republican POTUS and none of these SOBs will be able to feed off the federal teat anymore.

Now if only we can figure out how to make this apply to lobbying.

Mitch McConnell is up to his usual 'government takeover' hyperbole. Guess he doesn't want us to be able to buy the same private health insurance he can. Boehner's shilling for Wall Street. Couple of monkey wrenches those two tools are.

What's new?

"Coburn just told reporters he'll use his senatorial perogative to block the nominations of any lawmakers who change their votes from "no" to "yes" on health care should the president subsequently tap them for a federal post."

When they start making these kinds of threats they are getting desperate. I would imagine the those who recieve corporate lobbyist money are supposed to deliver, when they don't as it appears that Coburn and the Republicans will not be able to, it probably causes some angry phone calls from those lobbyists who gave them all that money.I bet Republicans' phones are heating up with angry lobbyists about now. Some famous pundits may be getting an ear full too.

When they start making these kinds of threats they are getting desperate.

I agree with that too. Someone has to be adult. It doesn't appear we have a single adult in Washington, but plenty of dolts.

I'm not sure if there are any people in college on this thread, but you should realize that the kind of opportunities I had when I got out into the private sector are going to vaporize before your eyes once we are all on the government rolls. These opportunities were due to advances in technology partly due to research and development. Notice nothing is really coming out of Europe in the way of research and development, or entrepreneurial like it does or did here.

If all this nonsense comes to pass, I will not be hiring anyone but the most experienced. Why would I hire someone right out of college and take a chance when older people are still all working?

I will not be hiring anyone but the most experienced. Why would I hire someone right out of college and take a chance when older people are still all working?

#255 | Posted by RIGHTPOLICY at 2010-03-18 04:02 PM |

How much experience does one need to work for your hamburger stand?

I can't wait for the bill to pass. A friend of mine works for the IRS. He said he could get me one of those 12,000 jobs when they become available!

I can't wait to get my black suit and dark sunglasses and get hardwired into the System! It'll be cool to learn to dodge bullets too!

#255 | Posted by RIGHTPOLICY
I'm not sure if there are any people in college on this thread, but you should realize that the kind of opportunities I had when I got out into the private sector are going to vaporize before your eyes once we are all on the government rolls. These opportunities were due to advances in technology partly due to research and development. Notice nothing is really coming out of Europe in the way of research and development, or entrepreneurial like it does or did here.
-----------
You are so right every profit will be sucked up for Health Care.

My neighbor was born in France and he graduated with a Masters degree in internet computing, when he went to look for a job in France, they only had two web sites at that time which means no jobs in internet computing, he then moved to America where now he has to turn down work, because he's swamped.

In France very few people/businesses have money for the interenet, because ever dollar of profit gets sucked up for Health Care.

Remember HISTORY IN THE MAKING

"I will not be hiring anyone but the most experienced. Why would I hire someone right out of college and take a chance when older people are still all working?"

Coming soon...."if health care passes you're all fired!"

If the college generation of today realized how good we had it back before Reagan and trickle down economics they would be rioting in the streets.
How about free university education??? Nice huh???

How about tariffs that protected American jobs so well that we had very low unemployment and a man with a high school education could support a family. Pretty cool huh???

The money is still here, it's just all in the pockets of the top 3%.

This health care reform bill is a crumb, nothing more, but don't let them talk you out of demanding at least this crumb.

"My neighbor was born in France and he graduated with a Masters degree in internet computing,"

How much did he owe in student loans???


When they start making these kinds of threats they are getting desperate.

It's not a threat I think, it's a promise. And since when is some disqualified from being an adult because they go after CORRUPT DEMOCRATS who sell their vote for personal gain?

D.C. is rotten to the core. I think Coburn is right on going after this corruption.

Coburn just told reporters he'll use his senatorial perogative to block the nominations of any lawmakers who change their votes from "no" to "yes" on health care should the president subsequently tap them for a federal post."

When they start making these kinds of threats they are getting desperate.

Hey Danni, remember that hypocrisy stuff you were doing before by not holding to one concept of how representatives should vote? You are doing it again.

Doesn't this sound a little bit like this,

Obama: "For all those who do not vote for Health Care, I will take my toys and go play somewhere else, and you will not get any funding or campaigning for you next term campaign."

Doesn't it sound like this:
Danni: "If Democrats vote different than the party ideology, they should not get funded and they should be kicked out of the party"

Kind of funny when you think about it. He is just following your bribery form of representative that you stated you supported.

Well, if healthcare does pass, the GOP will have another issue to run and lose on in November.

#264 | Posted by moder8 at 2010-03-18 04:24 PM

Within two years people are going to forget that health care has passed, as they will not be seeing any benefits from it beside money draining from their pay check at a higher rate than they were used to.

"If Democrats vote different than the party ideology, they should not get funded and they should be kicked out of the party"

If Dems don't support the basic agenda of the party then why are they in the party??? Health care reform has been a primary Democratic priority for decades, any Democrats who won't support it should not expect any help from the party. IF they want to be independents that is their choice.

If the college generation of today realized how good we had it back before Reagan and trickle down economics they would be rioting in the streets.
259 | Posted by danni

Yeah, I keep telling my 2 how we lived the Highlife during the Carter years. 17% mortgages, 20+% Auto Loans. They're pissed they missed those swell times.

"If Democrats would do a better job of policing things like unemployment, SS disability, Section 8 housing, etc. it would be easier to create a powerful majority that could make real changes that would help everyone."

#250 | Posted by danni

What you don't seam to understand is this has nothing to do with "Democrats" doing a bad job of policing and everything to do with the unaccountable nature of Big Government. I just figured I would explain this to you so that you are not shocked when they fuck up your life, your country etc.... via Big Government Health Care. Your welcome.

Just vote on the damn thing already! The Dems need to move onto the next fuck-up.

#266 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-18 04:26 PM | Reply | Flag: Want's purity test for Dems.

"They're pissed they missed those swell times."

No one I knew back then ever had $100,000 in student loan debts. And those interest rates were around during Reagans time too you do realize....and we are still paying interest on the debt he ran up.

"Want's purity test for Dems."

Not purity but at least support for the basic goals of the party. Now when you mention purity test though, I think of the Republican Party. Do Republicans in Congress even have the ability to decide for themselves on matters or do they just take orders from Boehner and McConnell??

Just vote on the damn thing already! The Dems need to move onto the next fuck-up.

#269 | Posted by OUR_ZERO

YES! Immigration should be the next one. They need some new sukers in their party since all the moderates and indepenents are running away as fast as they can from the democratic party.

Since these Marxist's goal is to destroy the economy, they will most likely give amnesty to all of the illegals, then make them register for some ID so they can get their free medical bennies and in-state college tuition.

I'm not sure after that. What will the enemy within attack next?

Rightpissed,

You won't have to worry about the 'enemy' since on Monday, the DEATH PANELS will be coming for your ass.

They will be starting with the morbidly obese. The plan is to render you fat fuckers for bio-diesel.

You know, Energy Independence and all that.....

#272

Well, I do believe the so-called jobs bill passed with Republican support. Not that I like that bill, but it is one example of some Republicans "acting in a bipartisan manner."

What will the enemy within attack next?

#273 | Posted by RIGHTPOLICY

Expect a full frontal assault on any business that provides something "unhealthy". This health care bull shit is just a can opener for the Marxist to be able to pry into everything that "may be harmful" to the public. Observing the useful idiots cheering on their own demise would be funny if they weren't dragging the whole country down. Don't worry though if shit gets bad enough we can always break out the guillotine and correct the situation.

Not if they tax guillotines'r'us into oblivion.

" Observing the useful idiots cheering on their own demise would be funny if they weren't dragging the whole country down. "

#276 | Posted by DIRK at 2010-03-18 05:21 PM | Reply | Flag: shiny mirror, probably won't get it

Not if they tax guillotines'r'us into oblivion.

#277 | Posted by salamandagator

Your right! Better save a little rope just in case;)

"Your(sic) right!"

#279 | Posted by Dirk at 2010-03-18 05:25 PM | Reply | Flag: yup, too stupid to get it

shiny mirror, probably won't get it

#278 | Posted by Zatoichi

What depth!

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."
Abraham Lincoln

The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew.
Abraham Lincoln

And they will be know by the cowardice of their convictions as they are lead to slaughter....

"We are absolutely giddy over the great news that we've gotten from the CBO," House Democratic Whip James Clyburn, D-S.C., said Thursday.

LOL!!!

The CBO is not a corrupt organization...

No way!!!

People won't forget about Healthcare.

IRS will make sure they don't forget it.

www.usatoday.com

"Since these Marxist's goal is to destroy the economy,"

er....I think the Republicans beat them to it.

"I think the Republicans beat them to it."

Keep telling yourself that, maybe when they think you have achieved complete mindlessness they might even make you a dem candidate.

And how does that matter, danni?

Wrong is wrong, whoever is doing it. Or do you have different standards for wrongdoing based on some nebulous standard?

"Since these Marxist's goal is to destroy the economy,"

er....I think the Republicans beat them to it.

#286 | Posted by danni

"If I say it enough times maybe everyone will forget that my Democratic Party (Bill Clinton) forced (via law) the banks into loaning money to people that had no business getting a loan which in turn created a bubble in the housing market." -Danni

POP! there goes your economy;

and now the wolfs will feast.

If this bill is so great, why would the owner of a 70 employee business be running around the office telling everyone how "fucking pissed off" he is and how he told his 5 kids their "fucked"?

they're

I "saves" money through lies and accounting tricks. Yes, really is budget reduction. 10 years tax and 6 years payout. I could save if I could do that. Send them ALL home in Nov.

In the short-term, Obamacare won't hurt the economy but longterm it's a disaster---in a perverse way I hope it happens---it ensures the upward movement of gold---it ensures very poor job formation and capital formation---it's not indexed for inflation---the cbo doublecounts SS and medicalcare monies. Government will double in size in 20 years---the top tax rate will eventually go to 88%. A true job killer---the marxist, Obama, is intent on driving the final nail into the American story coffin.

re: If this bill is so great, why would the owner of a 70 employee business be running around the office telling everyone how "fucking pissed off" he is and how he told his 5 kids their "fucked"?

#290 | Posted by wisgod at 2010-03-18 07:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Because he's an ignorant asshole?

This time proven quote is apropos for today.

"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
-Frederic Bastiat

"I was on an English blog site discussing how England went from number 1 to 2nd rate, and some posted an article by a British paper from the 40's saying that if we go down this health care path, we will no longer be number 1."

Correlation does not equal causation, and it's a silly comparison to make in light of history. For instance, you can't attribute health care wrecked the Ottoman empire, or the Portuguese colonialism, or the USSR. It's not like you even have to think very deeply to understand.

In France very few people/businesses have money for the interenet, because ever dollar of profit gets sucked up for Health Care.

France is ranked above the U.S. in internet access by its citizens. Your friend sounds incompetent.

"They're pissed they missed those swell times."

At that time I graduated with one degree, $3000 in student loans, and I had no help from anyone to get through college. As a percentage of income, I paid off that loan (which was given to me at a ridiculously affordable rate) once the economy turned more positive. In the meantime, I took serious advantage of CD rates, letting me pay off that loan with cheap dollars.

Those weren't bad times if you knew how to take advantage of them.

Because he's an ignorant asshole?

#294 | Posted by BetelG

I am sure this line of thought makes you feel better however the fact is small business is under attack and has been for the last year.

The EPA has gone after the construction industry with new BS lead paint laws.

The Senate has gone after the construction industry with new health care requirements for any company with 5 employees or less when every other company out there can get away with 50 or less.

The IRS is going after the construction industry in an attempt to make our subcontractors "employees".

In case you can't do the math all these attacks directed towards an industry destroyed by the economy cause a slower recovery.

Hence we all suffer due to the Marxist in the White House that is leading the charge against those of us who really produce the jobs.

All the while the community organizer is ignoring these restraints and focusing on his legacy. What leadership!

Because he's an ignorant asshole?

#294 | Posted by BetelG

And has socks that are more sucessfull than you, loser?

Dirk-
Give me your pitch for fewer lead paint restrictions, given that lead based paint has poisoned millions of children and pregnant women.

The bill has 10 years of tax increases, about half a trillion dollars, with 10 years of Medicare cuts, about half a trillion dollars, to pay for six years of spending. Now, what's the true 10-year cost of this bill in 10 years? That's $2.3 trillion. First we know there will be no Medicare cuts of any significance. We already have doctors and hospitals and now drug stores complaining that Medicare business is a losing proposition. This has resulted in the Medicare 'Doc Fix' which in 2010 which was 210 billion.

The Medicare double count- cuts in Medicare spending will both pay for health reform and add to Medicare's long-term solvency. The CBO says it's either/or, but not both. Translation. "If you save it and spend it somewhere else it's no longer saved."

Force insurance companies to accept all applicants (no preexisting conditions) combine this with a non-insured penalty that is well below the cost of purchasing insurance and the penalty is paid to the government (IRS) and not the insurance companies to spread out the risk pool. The federal health and human services secretary will have new authority to review, and to block, premium increases by private insurers, potentially superseding state insurance regulators.
The folly of this has already played out in Ma, Tenn. and Oregon where insurance rates skyrocketed because of the negative effect on the risk pool.

This will force insurance companies out of the insurance business and create the need for a government sponsored single payer system. Good news to you miss guided libtards but to those of us who read about and understand what socialized medicine is and has done this is not good.

The Medicare double count- cuts in Medicare spending will both pay for health reform and add to Medicare's long-term solvency. The CBO says it's either/or, but not both. Translation. "If you save it and spend it somewhere else it's no longer saved."

Add a 3.8% tax increase on investment income, the new tax would apply to income from interest, dividends, annuities, royalties, capital gains and rents for individuals. In 2013 it would push tax rates on capital gains and dividends to 23.8%. This should go a long way in driving investment off shore. It certainly will not promote job creation.

Bottom line:
Higher rates for those purchasing insurance
Ultimate collapse of private insurance industry and loss of millions of jobs and the loss of investment capital these insurance companies use to back their risk pools.
Lower payments to hospitals, Doctors and other health care providers. Results will be fewer health care providers and lower investment in health care.
Debt service on total Debt will be 800 Billion by 2014 assuming we keep our AAA rating. This will result in increased taxes in the form of VAT taxes and internet sales taxes as well as a growing list of nanny state taxes.
State bankruptcy increases due to increased SChip and Medicaid expenses.

Not to mention the Government being in charge of who gets tuition loans what rate they pay and which institution they can use them at. Good news Comrades?

Sorry this is so long but I a whole lot pissed off and I find myself headed to Washington DC tomorrow for the third time in a year to try to keep these socialist bastards out of my family and business.

Paneocon: Given your self identification as a neocon, a la GWB and Cheney, why should anyone trust anything you say when it comes to issues of fiscal responsibility? What a joke. Rightwingers have bankrupt America, and it is the Left who will save us.

Paneocon-
re: Not to mention the Government being in charge of who gets tuition loans what rate they pay and which institution they can use them at. Good news Comrades?

Under the guaranteed student loan programs, the gov't already decides who gets the loans, but big banks are guaranteed a profit.

Why are you for the redundancy of big banks being guaranteed a profit enforced by the gov't and paid for by students taking loans?

35% for
55% against

35% for
55% against

#303 | Posted by KBM at 2010-03-18 09:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

According to whom?

This bill will increase the IRS exponentially---they will have the task of prying into American and business lives to make sure a minimum amount of insurance is purchased---if not they'll be penalized or their tax refunds will be usurped.

My major issue with the student loans is that I'm a limited government guy. This will take private sector jobs and turn a lot of them into government jobs. Currently 35,000 people work in the administration of student loans. Studies show that comparing similar private sector and government jobs compensations are 40% higher than private sector jobs plus government entitlement programs. This will not be passed on to the loan originator but will be paid by you and me as tax payers. Freddy and Fanny chief executives will now receive $900,000 each in annual compensation, bonuses of up to $6 million each, and an additional $42 million in special compensation will be spread among a dozen other executives.

To all of you who have had student loans, who do you want to pursue you for late payments? A private bank or the IRS? Anyone who tells me "let the government handle it they can do it cheaper and better" is living in a land of denial that I can even comprehend.

Dirk-
Give me your pitch for fewer lead paint restrictions, given that lead based paint has poisoned millions of children and pregnant women.

#299 | Posted by BetelG

Everything you just said is 100% true however you would not believe the number of people dipping their hands into the pockets of contractors to get this thing implemented. Besides this not being the time to run up cost the way they are going about moving forward with it is out of control. The fines to small business are $35K per instance, per day. I could go on and on.

By the way if it is so fucking bad and I believe it is than lets just make it against the law to sell it don't set us up for some law suit that will drive small business out of business.

Would you like to comment on the timing of this along with the other OBAMA Attacks?

It's simple---tell me how you create a trillion dollar program and say you can save money---good thing I don't run my business that way---oops, I forgot, I can't print money out of thin air.

My statement from another thread:

You worry about the wrong thing - Premiums, when the quality of care is paramount.
Read about what you have to look forward to:

www.fiercehealthcare.com

For the ignorant here: VA Health Care is CIVILIAN GOVT EMPLOYEES (DRs, nurses, etc.) taking care of military people{i.e., govt run health care}. This is what you are wishing for!!!

It is interesting to note that when Social Security was started, the tax rate was 1%. Now it is 6.2% ( 5.3% employee; 0.9% employer ) or 12.4% for self employed persons. Source: www.ssa.gov

Implication for the future, as it relates to ObamaCare, are not good.

And let's not forget that the CBO HAS NOT released any numbers...the numbers are just touted by Nanny Pelosi et al, but are not actual CBO numbers.

"The Congressional Budget Office has confirmed that there is currently no official cost estimate. Yet House Democrats are touting to the press and spinning for partisan gain numbers that have not been released and are impossible to confirm. Rep. James Clyburn stated he was "giddy" about these unsubstantiated numbers. This is the latest outrageous exploitation by the Majority in this case abusing the confidentiality of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office to pass their massive health care overhaul at any cost."

And let's not forget that the CBO HAS NOT released any numbers...the numbers are just touted by Nanny Pelosi et al, but are not actual CBO numbers.

"The Congressional Budget Office has confirmed that there is currently no official cost estimate. Yet House Democrats are touting to the press and spinning for partisan gain numbers that have not been released and are impossible to confirm. Rep. James Clyburn stated he was "giddy" about these unsubstantiated numbers. This is the latest outrageous exploitation by the Majority in this case abusing the confidentiality of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office to pass their massive health care overhaul at any cost."

Even if you accept the numbers being touted by the dems, this is such a cluster fuck. The CBO scores bills according to the assumptions they are instructed to build into their analysis. The entire issue of this reform package reducing the deficit and amounting to a net savings is predicated on the assumption that future congresses will cut $500 billion from Medicare.

IF THAT WAS FEASIBLE, THEY COULD HAVE DONE IT NOW AS PART OF THIS LEGISLATION.

Ain't gonna happen folks.

And then there's the $300 billion separate bill to compensate doctors which was stripped out and passed separately. Oh yeah. Forgot about that huh?

"My major issue with the student loans is that I'm a limited government guy. This will take private sector jobs and turn a lot of them into government jobs. Currently 35,000 people work in the administration of student loans. Studies show that comparing similar private sector and government jobs compensations are 40% higher than private sector jobs plus government entitlement programs. This will not be passed on to the loan originator but will be paid by you and me as tax payers. Freddy and Fanny chief executives will now receive $900,000 each in annual compensation, bonuses of up to $6 million each, and an additional $42 million in special compensation will be spread among a dozen other executives.

To all of you who have had student loans, who do you want to pursue you for late payments? A private bank or the IRS? Anyone who tells me "let the government handle it they can do it cheaper and better" is living in a land of denial that I can even comprehend.

#306 | Posted by paneocon "

Absolute bullshit that 35,000 people are required to administer student loans for the government.

Second of all you are too clueless to realize an educated population is the best thing for the country to grow and improve, they should be subsidized.

Why are conservatives such clueless fucks?

Health Care is a service, it does not produce a lot of GDP.

We are in the process of shifting huge amounts of money from GDP producing ventures to paying for a service, that will result in an overall drop in GDP.

If you ever finished 1st, and 2nd you no the difference, and its striking.

Canada and Europe, have already gone through this change.

HISTORY IN THE MAKING

#314 | Posted by furio "Why are conservatives such clueless fucks?"

Why are libtards so clueless that they keep putting their faith in the government when it has delivered sub standard performance for so long. This will not lower the cost of student loans. The cost will be the same and like all government programs the overrun cost will be financed or inflated and passed on to us, the tax payer.

Once again history is out best teacher:

Medicare's hospital insurance trust fund is projected to be insolvent by 2015. In 1965, Medicare was predicted to cost $26 billion in 2003; the actual cost that year was $245 billion. Medicare's unfunded liability currently hovers around $40 trillion dollars.
Amtrak - Bankrupt
Postal Service Bankrupt
Social Security Bankrupt SS will start having to pay out more in benefits than it will receive this year in payroll taxes.

"Medicare's unfunded liability currently hovers around $40 trillion dollars."

I'd like to know how you figure this number or where you got it. I see this talking point often but so far no one has been able to explain it.

"Health Care is a service, it does not produce a lot of GDP."

I know what you mean but technically your are completely wrong, every cent spent on health care adds to GDP.

"Studies show that comparing similar private sector and government jobs compensations are 40% higher than private sector jobs plus government entitlement programs."

What study???

Allowing banks to profit off of federally GUARANTEED student loans is like letting me gamble with a guarantee that I will win. Free profits for banks to the tune of 67 billion, it's time to tell the fat cats the free ride is over.

Once again history is out best teacher:
#316 | Posted by paneocon

Medicare's hospital insurance trust fund is projected to be insolvent by 2015. In 1965, Medicare was predicted to cost $26 billion in 2003; the actual cost that year was $245 billion. Medicare's unfunded liability currently hovers around $40 trillion dollars.
Amtrak - Bankrupt
Postal Service Bankrupt
Social Security Bankrupt SS will start having to pay out more in benefits than it will receive this year in payroll taxes.
---------------
The Liberals don't care they know all this, they know that the projected cost are not accurate, they know that it could wipe out our super power status, they know it could topple us from #1.

They want thier health care, and they don't care how much it cost.

As one liberal said I rather loose the NCAA tournament to get health care.

HISTORY IN THE MAKING

#317 | Posted by danni
"Medicare's unfunded liability currently hovers around $40 trillion dollars."

"I'd like to know how you figure this number or where you got it. I see this talking point often but so far no one has been able to explain it."

You know I was wrong, turns out the latest figure is closer 90 trillion. Now theres some good news.

www.ncpa.org

Paneocon Liberals in Canada gave up thier chances of winning the Stanley Cup, for health care, and our Liberals think the same way.

The con here is that the general public is not being told this (yes Fox, and the finacial media is saying this), just like in Canada, and then it's too late, and everyone is scraching their heads trying to figure out what happened.

This the concept that the public doesn't understand about Liberals.

#306 | Posted by paneocon "Studies show that comparing similar private sector and government jobs compensations are 40% higher than private sector jobs plus government entitlement programs."

#319 | Posted by danni "What study???

Allowing banks to profit off of federally GUARANTEED student loans is like letting me gamble with a guarantee that I will win. Free profits for banks to the tune of 67 billion, it's time to tell the fat cats the free ride is over."
CATO
www.cato-at-liberty.org

If that to right for you here is USA Today
www.usatoday.com

When you start down this road is a very slippery slope. If we nationalize every industry that makes a profit, we have a term for that, it's called socialism and it has a history of turning out badly.

"If we nationalize every industry that makes a profit,"

I don't want to nationalize an industry that earns a profit, point being they don't earn that profit, they are guaraneed that profit. It serves no useful purpose to include them in the loop on student loans which shouldn't be something that anyone profits from.

"Paneocon Liberals in Canada gave up thier chances of winning the Stanley Cup, for health care, and our Liberals think the same way."

What a laughable post. If all we have to do is give up the STanley Cup for health care I think most Amerians would part with it quite happily. What a dolt.

"Allowing banks to profit off of federally GUARANTEED student loans is like letting me gamble with a guarantee that I will win. Free profits for banks to the tune of 67 billion, it's time to tell the fat cats the free ride is over."

So when the Gov takes over the student loan business, and their rate is 2.5% but their return is 6.5%, how does that fit into the free ride scenario? Just seems to change who the so called fat cats are.

Why are Student Loans and Disaster Relief included in this stinker of a bill?

Crispee,

Not sure I see what your getting at here. The governement charges 6.5 but the money only cost 2.5? or the government charges 2.5 but the money cost 6.5? In case one thats money that should be used to reduce the deficit, in case two that means we are subsidizing college (not such a bad idea in the grand scheme of things)

"Sources said the Congressional Budget Office has estimated that the updated package will save save $130 billion over the first 10 years after passage and $1.2 trillion over the second decade."

How one might ask? According to James Clyburn Majority Whip in Congress, 32 million people will no longer be going to the emergency room. There you have it in a nutshell...

#328...
Your first scenario is correct. It costs the Gov around 2.5% and their rate is around 6.5%.

I don't want to nationalize an industry that earns a profit, point being they don't earn that profit, they are guaraneed that profit

invents a new definition of "earns".

Is your wage "guaranteed" right now?

then you must not "earn" it.

I love the rational from the left.

32 million people makes a rather powerful purchasing lobby, don't you think?

BTW...
Catipillar sent a letter to Pelosi and according to them, if this Bill passes, they claim it will cost them $100 million dollars in healthcare costs in the first year alone. I can only imagine other large corporations being dealt with the same increases.

"32 million people makes a rather powerful purchasing lobby, don't you think?"

Problem with that number is there is no proof 32 million people are crying to get healthcare insurance. It is some skewed number they throw out there.

#333 | Posted by crispee_oc

Catipillar sent a letter to Pelosi and according to them, if this Bill passes, they claim it will cost them $100 million dollars in healthcare costs in the first year alone. I can only imagine other large corporations being dealt with the same increases.
------------
If you think outsourcing jobs now is a problem, it's only going to get worse.

Problem with that number is there is no proof 32 million people are crying to get healthcare insurance. It is some skewed number they throw out there.

exactly. if there were 32 million people who really wanted insurance and don't have it then there would be a lobby for that group.

I said this to Danni and I'll say it to Corky now......in a few years after this bill is in effect....all of the sudden they will start blaming the uninsured for being uninsured rather than insurance companies.

they will figure out that a large portion of the 32 million don't give a shit about having insurance......unless you are going to just give it to them.

If you think outsourcing jobs now is a problem, it's only going to get worse.

#335 | Posted by 90c2cab

Good, less to cover when we find out this really didn't reduce the deficite afterall. -Corky

-then there would be a lobby for that group.

There is, it's called the Office of the POTUS.

But, it's always easier to deny reality.... there are no millions of uninsured, and teh Bill couldn't conceivably reduce the deficit the way the ebil Commie Pinko Fag CBO says.

If america doesnt pass this it will demonstrate the enormous ignorance of our nation.

There is, it's called the Office of the POTUS.

LOL

"But, it's always easier to deny reality.... there are no millions of uninsured, and teh Bill couldn't conceivably reduce the deficit the way the ebil Commie Pinko Fag CBO says."

Lol, so because some don't agree on the 32 million number, they are denying there are not millions without insurance? As for the CBO... The "reality" is, their estimates are usually low and most Gov programs are proof of the accuracy.

The "reality" is that most of their estimates are considered conservative in savings and more conservative than comparable industry forecasters.

More good news Comrades!

Caterpillar: Health care bill would cost it $100M
www.chicagobreakingbusiness.co
m

How's that hopey-changey thing working for you now

#342

I hope so Corky. If the CBO is correct then I am tickled pink.

now....#343 is interesting.

gotta go for now

#342 | Posted by Corky at 2010-03-19 10:45 AM | Reply

The "Wicked Witch of the West" is on right now throwing numbers and visions of grandeur as I write this. People's dreams and aspirations are suddenly going to become reality because of this reform bill.lol Of course on the other hand Congressman Rahal of West Virginia has openly stated he would like time to read the bill, which pretty much goes against Pelosi and Obama's lies that Congress knows exactly what they are voting on and should ignore the pesky details...

All these people, having dealt with the details for at least a year now, and know the components of the Bill.

And it will be posted 72 hours before the vote.

You're going to run about of things to whine about sooner or later... OK, well, maybe not.

Here's something fer all the HC bill haters to chew on:

www.csmonitor.com

"You're going to run about of things to whine about sooner or later... OK, well, maybe not."

Not me whining... Just a Congressman from West Virginia who happens to shed a little light on the reality of this process, and shows that he understands what his duties are before casting his vote.

From the CS Monitor:

The numbers are in: The healthcare bill would cost $940 billion over 10 years, but it would raise enough revenues and save other funds that the federal deficit would be $132 billion less than it would under the status quo.

Those are the latest estimates (.pdf) by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), based on the Senate version of the bill with a package of fixes. It's sure to set off more political wrangling over whether the bill actually saves money or adds costs.

But what would healthcare reform cost you as a consumer? Surprisingly, if you're like most Americans, the answer is nothing.

Despite all the rhetoric in Washington, most Americans wouldn't see much change whether healthcare reform passes or not, according to previous CBO estimates.


#347 | Posted by Dave
Here's something fer all the HC bill haters to chew on:

www.csmonitor.com
-------------
We know what the CBO said and the csmonitor is just reflecting what they said.

That said look at what the CBO said about SS, Medicare, and Medicaid, they were way off.

So they were off on the last 3 entitlements, so I don't believe their numbers are accurate.

Would you buy a used car from someone who was wrong on the last 3 cars you bought? Maybe you would I wouldn't

You Liberals are a used car salesmans wet dream.

"Of course on the other hand Congressman Rahal of West Virginia has openly stated he would like time to read the bill,"

Since it is basicly the Senate bill he has had plenty of time to have read it by now.

"That said look at what the CBO said about SS, Medicare, and Medicaid, they were way off."

Did the CBO even exist when those programs were begun???

The CBO was created as an independent nonpartisan agency by the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974.

"Did the CBO even exist when those programs were begun???"

No. It didn't.

Did the CBO even exist when those programs were begun???
#352 | Posted by danni

Your false proposition is that those programs have never change, and the CBO has never scored those changes.

here is a little history for you...
healthcare-economist.com

And thus it is pretty hard to use its predictions made for SS, Medicare, and Medicaid to pretend that its predictions for HCR are not accurate.

Here's another CBO report that Republicans want to pretend isn't true too:

"CBO Data Show Tax Cuts Have Played Much Larger Role than Domestic Spending Increases in Fueling the Deficit"

www.cbpp.org

Thanks for the history ANDREAMACKRIS, if CBO errs on the side of caution and actual reduction to the budget deficit is larger that would be a good thing.....right????
From your link:

"According to a N.Y. Times editorial, the Congressional Budget Office has consistently underestimated costs savings from a variety of institutional changes to Medicare."

" a single person earning $14,700, just above the poverty level, would pay about 7 percent of her salary. Similarly, a family of four earning $42,000 would pay an average 13 percent of its income on insurance premiums and cost-sharing items."

CS Monitor.

What's interesting is the Dow is down for the first time in days anticipating this bill----What's even more interersting is those Obama "evil insurance companies are up big with this declining market-----hmmmmmmm--what a con.

am not a Republican, but you Cheerleaders certainly are making a showing.

#105 | Posted by kanrei at 2010

and its people like my colleague kanrei who show that obama and the dems are out of touch. kanrei is like millions of independents and moderates who see whats happening
so kanrei...get ready..you are about to be attacked and targeted by the left wing smear machine that lives right here in our little'community'...

I dont believe a fuckin thing put out by a group with the word progress in it.."

Now Fox News....THERE'S something to believe in!!

Pffft

#136 | Posted by Lisa at

well sweet thang...if that was all I watched like the left then you would have a point.
but if thats so, then how was it I saw a guest on CNN tell us that this whole thing was "small business gets a bum deal",.
mark olson of "towers waters'
also said there would be 'increases across the board'

heres hoping that lib dupes are the FIRST LET go
as the REAL OBAMA Agenda is exposed in this case for what it really is
an end to private insurance companies and americans put on the insurance govt dole and beholden to govt for that..

AND the cbo says ITSELF that these conclusions are based on info given to them AS WELL as FUTURE EVENTS which we all know some of them HAVE NEVER HAPPENED so why should they happen now?

I listen to a lot of old time radio shows, especially those during WW2, and it made me think of something that maybe everyone could get behind in relation to Health Care: Health Bonds.

I keep hearing commercials during those shows asking for people to buy War Bonds; they say "investing $3 will earn you $4 and help us defeat Hitler." Why can't we sell Health Bonds to do the same thing? If we are going to borrow money and pay interest, why not borrow from and pay interest to ourselves?

get ready..you are about to be attacked and targeted by the left wing smear machine that lives right here in our little'community'...

It is the reactions of the hacks on both sides here that usually justify my opinions and give proof to my statements. The more they attack me for being in the middle, the further away from reality I know they are.

And remember, politics is a circle as we now see, and the left has gone so far left and the right, so far right, they have actually met on the other side and become the same thing.

wait until the farleft here reads that you are quoting a "BECKISM" almost to a "T".....you are REALLY going to get it then.....lol

Garbage in is garbage out.

The numbers given to the CBO is complete BullSHIT. Tax for 10 years buit pay benefits for 5 or 6
Save 500 million on medicare but claim to use it twice.

Never before has the CBO been used with in such a corrupt bullshit way. THe leader has set a new low. Bush was bad with his drug plan but this is much much worse!!!

ANyone with a 1/2 a brain (this included even dems) know that you cant cover 32 million unisured and have it less cost less. Any one that thinks they can also must think that you can go on a all you can eat diet to loose weight.

mister hunter...such sensibility will only get you in trouble....and at the risk of causing you much anguish and attacks...I couldnt agree with you more..

OOPS SORRY>..my support of your view may turn out as badly as ALL of the obama support missions in VA and new jersey and MASS...

#354 | Posted by Dave
"Did the CBO even exist when those programs were begun???"

No. It didn't.

---------------
They still had someone that projected the cost of legislation, it just wasn't an official department.

So again if you look at Washingtons projections for SS, Medicare, and Medicaid, they were way off.

The CBO was formed in 1974.

MORE TRUTH FROM DEM lies

so called 138 BILLION off deficit

HALF of that isnt health care but the education TAKE OVER of govt

AND OBAMA ran up over 200 billion into the deficit LAST MONTH ALONE for new record if you will remember

so now we are supposed to TRUST this liar ten years in the future..
I think not

"HALF of that isnt health care but the education TAKE OVER of govt"

Translation from right wing talking point:

Federal takeover of Student Loan Programs so that banks will not continue making huge profits without any risk whatever since the loans are guaranteed by the federal government.
Wouldn't you like to have the opportunite to loan money at 8% interest with zero chance of default????
I read one estimate this will save government 67 Billion dollars.

In order for the preliminary CBO numbers to hold up, Congress has to actually do everything they're promising.

And that includes $500,000,000,000 in Medicare cuts. Does anyone really believe that a group of pussies who are too afraid to even vote on this turd, will enact those cuts?

Spare me. They're lying to everyone, including themselves.

so danni

are you even aware that one part of this takeover STEALS from social security?

and tell us what the profit margins are for PHARMA as oppossed to the health insurance industry...

yes and remember that this education savings is ATTACTHED to the health care bill so it can get through and LOWER the cbo prediction..thank you for bringing that up

AND as I also said...OBAMA ADDED over 200 billion to the deficit LAST MONTH ALONE...and so now we are supposed to just agree with this..I dont think so...

Federal takeover of Student Loan Programs so that banks will not continue making huge profits without any risk whatever since the loans are guaranteed by the federal government.
* * * *

Uh huh. And if that's such a great idea, why did Senator Conrad ask for, and Obama approve, an exception for a big bank in North Dakota?

I guess if you're a Democrat on the fence, it's okay for YOUR bank to make huge profits, and the DanniDanforthSarvis Unity's will chalk it all up to political pragmatism.

There should be prison terms handed out for all this, starting with that "hope and change" turd sitting in the White House.

LET ME ANSWER that for you

insurance..just over 3 %
pharma...just over 22 %

why the difference>? easy...pharma made a better DEAL with obama...so I am sure you of all people will join me in GOING after this deal that puts BIG BUSINESS over the good of the people....

and WHY isnt the pres ATTACKING pharma..

see deal above...

RIR

must be fair....he has now told them to forget the ONE bank who could loan the money that JUST HAPPENED TO be in his state....but that doesnt mean WE JUST forget the attempt....

and dupes here just close thier biased eyes to this shit....its amazing............grace.

"DanniDanforthSarvis Unity's"

And once again, RiR can't find any statements from me whatsoever on this subject, so he'll just pretend, and fling his feces.

And that's fine. In a few years' time, when death panels are a reality, and conservatives are running the show, I want to be on one of those panels.

" In a few years' time, when death panels are a reality, and conservatives are running the show, I want to be on one of those panels."

Why wait? Why not work for a health insurance company today?

"There should be prison terms handed out for all this, starting with that "hope and change" turd sitting in the White House."

Puhleeeeez! Bush and Cheney are walking free and you think Obama should be in prison. That's not even a good talking point, that's just stupid.

The fact that you're not outraged tell me all I have to, Dandy Dan.

But, by all means, share. If you're opposed to this, let us know. If you support it, let us know.

"I would that you be hot or cold . . ."

why the difference>? easy...pharma made a better DEAL with obama.

we don't know that yet.

My guess is that the insurance companies have made a great deal.

"Washington (CNN) - Sen. Kent Conrad issued a statement Thursday announcing that he has asked for the removal from the House bill of an exemption for the state-owned Bank of North Dakota that would have allowed the bank to continue making federally backed student loans."

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com

And, it is a state owned bank anyway, not a private institution where stockholders profit.

Apples and Oranges

www.marketwatch.com

dow is down but Aetna is up 4%.

If it's true that they lied to get us into a war, they should go to prison.

As to the death panels, there is no way that this plan doesn't blow the budget wide open. And when that happens, there will be bureaucrats making life-and-death decisions working for the government. And why should healthy people subsidize the unhealthy? Why should fat people be covered? Or the very, very elderly? The chronically ill? Gays? Smokers?

These are decisions that they make in the UK, every day, and you guys want that for us. And when it comes, don't be surprised when your Twinkies cost you a transplant.

Ooooops.

Signed, RisR.

And, it is a state owned bank anyway, not a private institution where stockholders profit.

Apples and Oranges

my ass!! It is a special interest for HIS STATE.

personally I don't blame him. He should be representing his state.

And, it is a state owned bank anyway, not a private institution where stockholders profit.

* * *

I see. So it's okay for the State of North Dakota to profit at the expense of taxpayers, but not stockholders.

You do know, don't you?, that private stockholders pay taxes on their gain? And states don't? You should prefer the gains go to private banks, and not state-owned ones, if you're smart about it.

Apples and oranges, indeed. But even Conrad is taking the heat for this.

Death panels is possible from the language, but not probable for a very long time. Yes, the bill does allow the Surgeon General to determine the medical viability of procedures, but do you really believe they would start saying "well, he has AIDS, so there is no point in treating his flu," or "he smokes so screw that tumor?" Anyone thinking that has a real problem with this country and no faith in his fellow man. Do you think you are the only moral person in America?

I want that language removed, but not because I think "death panels," but rather because I see how treatments that are sort of good get pushed above treatments that work 100% simply because the kind of good one is a monthly pill and the 100% is a one time cost.

My personal favorite thus far is Obama agreeing to increase the water allowance in two desert districts to buy the votes of the Reps there. Going against Obama would result in water being shut off, but agreeing with him means that they'll be able to get it after all.

The pendulum will swing back. And when it does, there will be hell to pay. Republicans should take notes, and, say, cut off welfare payments to California or Illinois. Or threaten to open spillways and flood farmland. Is that what "hope and change" is all about?

Welcome to Chicago.

I see how treatments that are sort of good get pushed above treatments that work 100% simply because the kind of good one is a monthly pill and the 100% is a one time cost.

Here is a perfect example: ADHD. Research has found that tonsillectomies cures ADHD in 75% of cases. Inflamed tonsils lead to sleep apena which disrupts sleep and, as any parent knows, over tired children are usually full of energy and impossible to make concentrate. The Journal of Psychiatry, in 2004, REMOVED sleep apnea as a cause of ADHD and REMOVED ALL MENTION of removing the tonsils. They recommend ONLY treatment in offices of shrinks AND perscription of medication as the ONLY treatments.

Death panels is possible from the language, but not probable for a very long time.

* * * *

We're running trillion dollar deficits right now. When push comes to shove, the ones who will get covered are the ones with the most powerful lobbies. Which means that federal employees and the AARP will get the bulk of the largesse, and gays and diabetics and alcoholics and smokers won't. Fact is, gay Americans can't even get enough Americans to agree they should have the same rights as straights. Do you really think that the taxpayers will be picking up the tab for HIV treatments?
Please.

we don't know that yet.

My guess is that the insurance companies have made a great deal.

#381 | Posted by eberly at 2010

I disagree but lets talk about other part of it

why is it that barry demonizes the insurance industry but says NOTHING ABOUT PHARMA.....who makes MORE profit than insurance companies...

My personal favorite thus far is Obama agreeing to increase the water allowance in two desert districts to buy the votes of the Reps there. Going against Obama would result in water being shut off, but agreeing with him means that they'll be able to get it after all.

A short time ago these people couldnt even get the obama govt to TALK to them about this...back when it was just jobs and children having enough to eat that was at stake..but once BARRY saw his job might be at risk

TURN ON THE WATER....

have a great friday

bros...keep up the heat...

You know I was wrong, turns out the latest figure is closer 90 trillion. Now theres some good news.
www.ncpa.org
#321 | Posted by paneocon
===============

PAN...the figure you qoute...

Are projected estimates over 75 years ("75-year "unfunded obligation') and are for the year 2083, if the country stays in a status comparable to 2009...taxes, benefits paid, number of beneficiaries , no change in the law, current economic condition etc.

I do not think their crystall ball is that big.

"There is nothing in any of the legislative proposals that would call for the creation of death panels or any other governmental body that would cut off care for the critically ill as a cost-cutting measure."

THOSE Medicare cuts are insurer subsidies, RisR which money is then redirected to other parts of the program.

Only the companies you pimp for will lose.

insurer subsidies,

what is an "insurer subsidy"?

"Democrats Hiding $371 Billion In ObamaCare Costs"

"Democrats are planning to introduce legislation later this spring that would permanently repeal annual Medicare cuts to doctors, but are warning lawmakers not to talk about it for fear that it will complicate their push to pass comprehensive health reform. The plans undercut the party's message that reform lowers the deficit"

"Democrats removed the so-called doc fix from the reform legislation last year because its $371-billion price tag would have made it impossible for Democrats to claim that their bill reduces the deficit."

"The memo also repeatedly advises Democrats not to discuss the details of the CBO score."

"We cannot emphasize this enough: do not allow yourself (or your boss) to get into a discussion of the details of CBO scores and textual narrative. Instead, focus only on the deficit reduction and number of Americans covered," the memo says "

wizbangblog.com

"Never let the suckers know what we are doing"
--- Washington Democrats ---

Unfortunately that report has been unverified to be from the Democrats KBM.

You are doing the same exact thing you decried when you decried the democrats putting out yet unofficial CBO information.

Give me an h: "H"
Give me...

What's that spell? Hypocrite...

#395 | Posted by mmike

Are projected estimates over 75 years ("75-year "unfunded obligation') and are for the year 2083, if the country stays in a status comparable to 2009...taxes, benefits paid, number of beneficiaries , no change in the law, current economic condition etc.

I do not think their crystall ball is that big.

------------------
Thats just making excuses, just look at the last 3 entitlements, and see how much they were off, and come up with a factor that gets calculated into current estimates of this bill, and you will have a more accurate estimate.

But Noooooo they would never do that, because it would guarantee an even tougher time trying to pass this bill.

90C2...staying with medical issues

According to a N.Y. Times editorial, the Congressional Budget Office has consistently underestimated costs savings from a variety of institutional changes to Medicare. For instance:

Medicare enacts the prospective payments system (PPS) for reimbursing inpatient hospital stays.

The CBO projected total Medicare spending will rise to $60 billion in 1986.
Actual Medicare spending in 1986 was only $48 billion.
Medicare begins paying skilled nursing facilities and home health care services a set fee per patient.

The CBO projected a 9.1% reduction in Medicare spending.
The actual savings turned out to be 50 percent greater in 1998 and 113 percent greater in 1999 than the budget office forecast.
The Medicare Modernization Act created Part D prescription drug coverage.

The CBO projected that spending on the drug benefit would be $206 billion.
Actual spending was nearly 40 percent less than that.

healthcare-economist.com

link will take you to original

AMA, AARP Endorse Revised Health Insurance Reform

"The nation's largest association of doctors and the AARP senior citizens' lobby are endorsing President Barack Obama's revised health overhaul legislation.

James Rohack, president of the American Medical Association, said Friday that the pending bill isn't perfect, but it's the next step toward real reform of the nation's health care system.

"This is certainly not the bill we would have written, but we cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good," Rohack said.

The board of the Chicago-based group reached a consensus and voted unanimously Thursday night after a review of the House reconciliation bill.
....

In a statement Friday, AARP said the legislation "will improve health care for older Americans and their families." The bill gradually closes the "doughnut hole" coverage gap in the Medicare prescription drug benefit and limits insurance companies' ability to charge higher premiums based solely on age, AARP said."

"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) committed on Friday to holding a separate vote on a public option in the coming months."
======

Let's get ready to rumble

Uh huh. And if that's such a great idea, why did Senator Conrad ask for, and Obama approve, an exception for a big bank in North Dakota?

As Danni pointed out, RisR and Eberly, this is not true. It has been removed. In fact, almost every single right wing point in this thread has been ripped to shreds. Not least of which is that silly "democrat" memo KBM, unfortunately, chose to tie himself.

Don't worry though KBM. Vitter's still using it to raise money on his website...

Uh oh . . . the CBO now says that the health care plan is in the red, courtesy of the Medicare fix of the cost rollbacks to doctors.

Well, that didn't last long.

"the CBO now says that the health care plan is in the red..."

OMG!!! Covering more people is actually going to cost MORE???

Color me stunned.

Tell us, RiR...what will be the differences if:

a) some type of counterpoint ameliorates the double-digit annual increases in health care we've seen over most of the last generation, versus

b) we let the health insurance monopolies continue for another decade the way they've done for the last one, with the government on the hook for 40% of the insured, currently, and a larger percentage to come with the baby boomers' retirement years?

Feel free to use all your macroeconomics training.

Interesting. 406 posts half full of triumphant libbies, trumpeting the savings. Now the savings are gone--POOF!--and ol' Danforth claims to have known the truth all along.

Color me stunned.

"ol' Danforth claims to have known the truth all along."

If you'd actually read my posts about this subject for the past 5 years, you'd know I've known the truth since the beginning.

Working on this issue for a generation will do that to a guy.

But don't let that get in the way of your partisan rants.

So, RiR...are you actually going to address #407 in an intelligent, adult way, or would you prefer to continue to stand on the sidelines throwing your feces?

#403 | Posted by mmike
In a statement Friday, AARP said the legislation "will improve health care for older Americans and their families." The bill gradually closes the "doughnut hole" coverage gap in the Medicare prescription drug benefit and limits insurance companies' ability to charge higher premiums based solely on age, AARP said."

-------------------
AARP is going to sell the insurance and make a lot of money, so it's not shocker that they support the bill.

#402 | Posted by mmike

According to a N.Y. Times editorial, the Congressional Budget Office has consistently underestimated costs savings from a variety of institutional changes to Medicare. For instance:

Medicare enacts the prospective payments system (PPS) for reimbursing inpatient hospital stays.

The CBO projected total Medicare spending will rise to $60 billion in 1986.
Actual Medicare spending in 1986 was only $48 billion.
Medicare begins paying skilled nursing facilities and home health care services a set fee per patient.

The CBO projected a 9.1% reduction in Medicare spending.
The actual savings turned out to be 50 percent greater in 1998 and 113 percent greater in 1999 than the budget office forecast.
The Medicare Modernization Act created Part D prescription drug coverage.

The CBO projected that spending on the drug benefit would be $206 billion.
Actual spending was nearly 40 percent less than that.

healthcare-economist.com

link will take you to original

----------------
Again in 1965 Washington was way off on their projections of the cost of Medicare, and Medicaid, all these other deflections mean nothing.

All this cherry picked numbers that you came up with does not change the fact that they were way off on their projections of these programs.

They can still come up with more accurate numbers they don't want to.

Were we were not told in 1965 that the current taxes would not cover the cost of medicare, that benefits would have to be cut, and that eventually it could go bankrupt? No

A used car salesman would love someone like you, but keep on believing.

Keep in mind that the CBO has been predicting a balanced budget in ten years for the past fifty years.

All you Liberals saying it won't cost us that much money for this bil, history proves you wrong.

Canada and Europe were told the same thing, and when the bill came do quess what? They didn't have the money, so they had to raise taxe, and make huge cuts to other programs like defense.

And remember we 300 million people Canada only has 7 million.

And remember we 300 million people Canada only has 7 million.

Actually, Canada has 34 million people and one talking potato.

Be Well.

Uh oh . . . the CBO now says that the health care plan is in the red, courtesy of the Medicare fix of the cost rollbacks to doctors.
Well, that didn't last long.

#406 | POSTED BY RIGHTISRIGHT AT 2010-03-19 11:55 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Please cite the actual CBO report, not the fake memo. I'll look for the link from you.

I did find this:

finance.yahoo.com

"The Congressional Budget Office said Friday that rolling back a programmed cut in Medicare fees to doctors would cost $208 billion over 10 years. If added back to the health care overhaul bill, it would wipe out all the deficit reduction, leaving the legislation $59 billion in the red."

But I've also been going through the CBO report and site and can't find anything except this:

"Today, in a letter responding to questions from Congressman Ryan, CBO described the effects on the federal budget of enacting the reconciliation proposal and the Senate-passed health bill if:

The excise tax on insurance plans with relatively high premiums -- which would take effect in 2018 and for which the thresholds would be indexed at a lower rate beginning in 2020 -- was never implemented;

The annual indexing provisions for premium subsidies offered through the insurance exchanges continued in the same way after 2018 as before -- in contrast with the reconciliation proposal, which would slow the growth of subsidies after 2018;

The adjustment to physician payment rates under Medicare that was passed by the House last fall was included; and
The Independent Payment Advisory Board -- which would be required, under certain circumstances, to recommend changes to the Medicare program to limit the rate of growth in that program's spending, and whose recommendations would go into effect automatically unless blocked by subsequent legislative action -- was never implemented.

We estimated that if this set of changes was made (never implemented), the legislation as modified would increase federal budget deficits during the decade beyond 2019 relative to those projected under current law -- with a total effect during that decade in a broad range around one-quarter percent of GDP."

cboblog.cbo.gov

So Ryan (R) asked the CBO to analyze what would happen if some of the mechanisms to reduce the deficit weren't enacted and we came up with an increase in the deficit.

Duh.

Ryan's Roniee Raygun hair has seriously screwed up his brain.

"These are decisions that they make in the UK, every day, and you guys want that for us."

Not sure how close of a model this so called reform bill is to the UK system, but studies show the rich still live seven years longer than the poor even though everyone is covered.

Seems like the CBO numbers only reflect when everything goes according to plan, seeing as that is never the case, shouldn't they also have a score when they inevitably don't go accordingly as well?

Congress usually asks CBO to judge a bill's budget impact over 10 years. In the case of health-care reform, Congress is seeking to fudge the budget impact of the program by starting the program in 2013. But the CBO's 10-year estimates start with 2010, so that they actually include costs for seven program years.

In addition, the CBO estimates show costs rising dramatically over time. “The estimate on the Senate bill could give the impression the program will cost $85 billion a year,” said Marron.

But the CBO estimate shows costs of more than $200 billion at year 10 and rising. In other words, costs for the original Senate bill could run well over $2 trillion during the second decade of the program.

CBO estimates often use sophisticated economic models that try to predict how everyone, from consumers and workers to employers and governments, would respond to a policy change. That's a lot of moving parts.

For example, the pending health-care bills would loosen eligibility requirements for Medicaid, potentially adding millions of people to that program's rolls. In order to figure out the increase in Medicaid costs, “you would need to model future economic trends and income distributions in order to estimate how many people would qualify,” explained Marron. “You would also have to model how people decide how to enroll in Medicaid and the behavior of health-care providers and their willingness to provide services. You would also need to estimate average health expenditures, how they are rising over time and how they vary across different population groups.”

There is evidence that governments chronically underestimate health-care program costs. A report released over the summer by Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kansas) argues that “health care appears to be an area with great room for overly optimistic assumptions regarding” changes in the behavior of patients and providers, the impact of technology, future health cost inflation and the likely success of cost controls.

The report cites numerous instances of faulty health-care estimates from Medicare and Medicaid, the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP), the Massachusetts universal-coverage plan and the United Kingdom's National Health Service.

dailycaller.com

dirty secret of dems is medicaid as it pertains to the cost.. so when all this added expense is given to the states..who do you think is going to pay for that and how?
a bump in fees or a state tax still has to come out of the family expense money...BUT dems dont want ANY part of that to actually be talked about.

and all morning long dem after dem have stood there and used this as the MAIN reason they made up thier mind to vote yes...AS IF there was any doubt...
and this is all based on FRAUD and lies from the dems

* double counting money spent
** HALF of deficit saving is from GOVT TAKEOVER OF higher education.
*** medicare cuts THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN

DAMN forgot biggest LIE of them all

TEN YEARS OF TAXES for only SIX years of benefits.

Oh believe me, I have no love for you guys. I am having to restrain myself from expressing what I really think of your side.

#7 | POSTED BY MITCH

well I won't.. Fuck you and hope you choke to death on wifes crotch hair.

So, RiR...are you actually going to address #407 in an intelligent, adult way, or would you prefer to continue to stand on the sidelines throwing your feces?

#410 | POSTED BY DANFORTH

no he is only capable of eating feces.

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