Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, March 16, 2010

After laying the groundwork for a decisive vote this week on the Senate's health-care bill, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi suggested Monday that she might attempt to pass the measure without having members vote on it. Instead, Pelosi (D-Calif.) would rely on a procedural sleight of hand: The House would vote on a more popular package of fixes to the Senate bill; under the House rule for that vote, passage would signify that lawmakers "deem" the health-care bill to be passed.

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"It's more insider and process-oriented than most people want to know."

(You're too stupid to figure out we're trying to circumvent the whole process of approving a bill)

"But I like it," she said, "because people don't have to vote on the Senate bill."

(We're doing everything possible not to be held accountable by America for this piece of shit)

She said just yesterday that the public option is "off the table". This thread is bullshit hyperbole.

And you're going to believe anything that comes out of that womans pie-hole?

I can see why this is frustrating to the GOP. It cuts the legs out from under the Republicans that want to hang the taint of "they voted for the Senate bill with the Nebraska crap" when that would never become part of the final bill anyway.

The GOP is doing their best to play loose, and the DEMS are countering.

Politically this is fascinating to watch.

This would be Pelosi's curtain call. If she pulled this she would most definitely step aside as speaker. The beauty (or backhandedness, depending on how you look at it) of it is the Dems in the House could tell their constituents, "Look, I had nothing to do with it, this was all Pelosi," which could help them come election time.

This would be Pelosi's curtain call. If she pulled this she would most definitely step aside as speaker.

I get the complete opposite from this. Pelosi is probably the most effective Speaker we've ever seen. If she pulls this off, she's cemented her position.

If she pulls this off, she's cemented her position.

#6 | Posted by YAV

Sure. The American Public loves this type honest politics and certainly would cheer this tactic by the majority party in power.

"I don't know about the politics, but I know what's the right thing to do,"
I guess he thought the right thing to do was oppose the drug import measure, something that otherwise had bipartisan support. Big drug companies need love too.

BTW, Yav. St. Patick's day is tomorrow. Put down the green beer.

If she pulls this off, she's cemented her position.

Agreed.

The Bill has passed in both house and senate albeit in different forms.

The American people both want and seriously need health care reform.

The only way Pelosi loses is if no form of HC reform passes and the Dems are reduced to ineffectual assclowns in the eyes of the nation.

Be Well.

But put aside the present for the moment and step into my time machine. Dial the date selector back to 2005 when the Republican majority in Congress approved a national debt limit increase using a self-executing rule similar to the Slaughter Solution.

Guess who went to federal court to challenge the constitutionality of the move? The Ralph Nader-backed Public Citizen legal activists.

And now for the kicker, guess who joined Public Citizen in that suit with amicus briefs:

Nancy Pelosi

Henry Waxman

Louise Slaughter

www.washingtonexaminer.com

There is no way this cements her position. She will essentially be falling on the sword for the Obama administration. Afterwards voters will be calling for her head and for Dems to remove her from her leadership position. This will be done and those Dems running for re-election will be able to arguel that, not only do they have clean hands, they forced out the "Wicked Witch of the West".

Do these SOB's reek of hypocrisy or what? The self-executing rule was "unconstitutional" in Pelosi and Slaughter's eyes for a routine raising of the debt ceiling, but NOW it's ok when they want to socialize 1/6th of the economy. LOL. And the progrsseives keep marching on to that cliff edge...

I agree Tax, regarding Pelosi. But I don't think the "clean hands" arguement is going to fly. As Spud pointed out, both Houses passed different versions, and this wouldn't happen without that fact. Not to mention the special deals paid out along the way in the Senate.

the "progressives", too

There is no way this cements her position. She will essentially be falling on the sword for the Obama administration. Afterwards voters will be calling for her head and for Dems to remove her from her leadership position. This will be done and those Dems running for re-election will be able to arguel that, not only do they have clean hands, they forced out the "Wicked Witch of the West".

#12 | Posted by taxman at 2010-03-16 09:57 AM

So essentially she's toast either way, even though Dems overall may benefit. I have more sympathy for her now re. the alcohol budget.

Cookie actually has a point. The first thing I thought of when I heard this was, "is this really constitutional?" I don't know much about this procedure.

Wis, I am not saying all voters will buy it, but it does give House Dems the argument.

So essentially she's toast either way

I think that's the reason she's willing to commit "political suicide".

"Guess who went to federal court to challenge the constitutionality of the move? The Ralph Nader-backed Public Citizen legal activists."

And how did the court decide???

Pelosi is not committing political suicide, that would probably follow health care failing. Democrats are better off passing health care and their advantage will grow as the new bill becomes better understood.

I forgot Danni was incapable of identifying Democrat hypocrisy. My bad.

Democrats are better off passing health care and their advantage will grow as the new bill becomes better understood.

#20 | Posted by danni

By November? Right.

"I forgot Danni was incapable of identifying Democrat hypocrisy. My bad."

Hypocrisy to ask how the court decided???
Hypocrisy to make use of a procedure that the opposition used???
I think you need to look up the definition of hypocrisy Cookfish.

Pelosi:

"But we have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy."

Danni:

"Democrats are better off passing health care and their advantage will grow as the new bill becomes better understood."

They are one.

I think it was dishonest for the Washington Examiner to print the article without the court's verdict included. Pretty obvious why they left it out.

"It's more insider and process-oriented than most people want to know," the speaker said in a roundtable discussion with bloggers Monday. "But I like it," she said, "because people don't have to vote on the Senate bill."

VOTE HER OUT! She would have kittens if they tried to pass the Patriot Act this way.

Article 1, Section 7 - Revenue Bills, Legislative Process, Presidential Veto

"Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States;"

This method is unconstitutional n(o big surprise coming from the mobster peelosi)- it has not passed the House and The Senate. If Obama signs it, it should be challenged in the SCOTUS.
This is a direct threat
to the republic of the United States of America. If she attempts this, she and big ears should be arrested and tried for treason.

SPUD, DUMMI, YAV- congrats on siding with a traitor.

" congrats on siding with a traitor."

Hilarious.

Damn the Republicans get mad when Democrats do the same things the Party of No did when they had the power. Sore losers I'd say.

Republicans get mad when Democrats do the same things the Party of No did

Democrats got mad when the GOP did it, and ran on changing how things were done in Washington, not changing what they were done for. Pelsoi does this and she kills the DNC: plain and simple.

...she and big ears should be arrested and tried for treason.

...congrats on siding with a traitor.

~nonLucid

Trying to make government work better for more people is traitorous?

LOL!

Coming from a guy who was a proponent of torture and a war based on lies that's farking hilarious.

Give yer head a shake.

Try and get those three metal balls back in their holes.

Be Well.

Sore losers I'd say.

#29 | Posted by danni

When did the Republicans pass a Bill that effects 1/6th of the economy with this method? Link?

The tactic -- known as a "self-executing rule" or a "deem and pass" -- has been commonly used, although never to pass legislation as momentous as the $875 billion health-care bill.

The Bills have already passed both chambers. This is just the process to reconcile them.

#27 - wow, aren't you brilliant!

Notwithstanding the straightforward constitutional requirement
of bicameralism, the court below affirmed the dismissal
of Public Citizen's claim that the DRA is invalid under the
United States Constitution. The court held that Marshall Field
& Co. v. Clark, 143 U.S. 649 (1892), established an "enrolled
bill rule" that required dismissal of the constitutional challenge.
According to the court, under that rule, the courts must
conclusively presume that signed legislation was enacted in
accordance with article I, section 7, clause 2, and may not
consider any evidence to the contrary. Yet if that were so, then
the bicameralism "requirement," although central to the
legislative process established by the Constitution, would be
merely advisory. Moreover, the court's broad reading of
Marshall Field is divorced from the context and substance of
the decision itself and from the authoritative limiting
construction placed on it by this Court's more recent decision,
United States v. Munoz-Flores, 495 U.S. 385 (1990).

SCOTUS ruled already. You lose.

www.scotusblog.com

"Look, I had nothing to do with it, this was all Pelosi," which could help them come election time.

#5 | Posted by taxman at 2010-03-16 09:41 AM |

I was ignorantly thinking Obama was going to use that as an out, when he handed his HC reform agenda off to Pelosi and Reid. Now that he is putting most of his political clout in passing this, obviously I was naive to believe that. Or something changed and the WH figure he would be just as culpabale and decided to take matters into his own hands.

The Bills have already passed both chambers. This is just the process to reconcile them.

#34 | Posted by Corky

Simple as that.

Different bills have passed each house; one bill has not passed both houses which is what is required. The House can accept the Senate bill as is, but if they change even one word, it must go back to the Senate for a vote.

"When did the Republicans pass a Bill that effects 1/6th of the economy with this method? Link?"

Since when is the process used dependent upon the importance of the legislation? You have a talking point but you don't have a real argument.

Pass it using this tactic, and Russ Feingold is done, along with David Obey, Ron Kind and Steven Kagen. And that's just Wisconsin. Go Nancy!

You have a talking point but you don't have a real argument.

#39 | Posted by danni

Why? Because you don't want to add ethics into the discussion?

#38...

Seems strange that the Budget Committee had their review without the new numbers form the CBO. Something appears backwards in this process.

House Has Long History Of Political Cowardice, Prolific Use Of 'Deeming Resolutions'

Congressional Democrats have done a bit of homework and found, not so surprisingly, that the House has a long history of using parliamentary tactics to avoid tough votes. The lack of courage exhibited by today's members, it turns out, is nothing special.

-Simple as that.

Yep.

Ya'll can whine about the process all you want, but you know that if the GNOP had been in the same position last year as the Dems, they would never have listened to even a minute of Dem concerns, much less nearly throw away the Bill trying to be bipartisan.

As far as "ethics" go, if you think the GNOP has not or would not use the same lawful tactic, then you are supremely naive.

You have a talking point but you don't have a real argument.

#39 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 11:05 AM | Reply | Flag: Story of my life.

Trying to make government work better for more people is traitorous?

-SPUDLY

LOL. Yeah spudly, it is tratorous. See Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini - all said they were trying to make government work better for more people. Idiot.

And to those who continue the lie about how the American people want this bill - WHICH BILL? The one that barely passed the Senate, or the one that barely passed the House? TWO BILLS - it is unconstituional to have the president sign a bill that has not been approved by both houses of congress. Lie all you want libtards - Hope and Change - two words used to make dumbfucks like yourselves vote for the most incompetent president in the history of the country.

As far as "ethics" go, if you think the GNOP has not or would not use the same lawful tactic, then you are supremely naive.

#44 | Posted by Corky

With the same majority the Democrats currently hold? Yeah, I'm supremely naive! LOL!

#24 | Posted by cookfish

FF

-With the same majority the Democrats currently hold?

With the most 60 vote demands in US history, the GNOP has thwarted majority rule.

"Why? Because you don't want to add ethics into the discussion?"

Ethics have nothing to do with the discussion, the rule was used previously, there is nothing unethical about using it again for whatever purpose it is legal do use it for. It is also an ethical obligation for Pelosi to use whatever tools she has at her disposal to further legislation which she believes is in the best interest of her constituents. For her not to do so would be unethical, IMHO.

"Hope and Change - two words used to make dumbfucks like yourselves vote for the most incompetent president in the history of the country."

You can hate him all you want ELCID but incompetent???
That's a really stupid comment as they are on the brink of passing health care reform after many presidents have been unable to.
I'd have to say you seem incompetent as a poster for that one.

The rule was used for minor bills that had minor tweaks between houses of Congress, not for major bills that would change how government functioned. Passing this without a vote would be like passing the Patriot Act without one.

With the most 60 vote demands in US history, the GNOP has thwarted majority rule.

#48 | Posted by Corky

How did it pass the Senate? Oh that's right, payouts. So your party can now use this tactic to keep that too. Priceless! You'll never have to concern yourself with a thwarted majority rule after November.

Politically this is fascinating to watch.

I'm enjoying it too. If something is allowed in the rules of Congress, it's allowed -- no matter how much the minority wants to bellyache. Pelosi obviously sees some value in threatening this option, probably to whip up her side before the actual vote that will take place.

But if they passed the Senate bill this way, and it's procedurally allowed, then tough shit to the Republicans. When they were in the majority, they played hardball. The Democrats should do the same. Both houses have passed health care reform already. It's not like this never got voted on.

I almost hope they do
then WHEN...not if but WHEN the gop takes over we can read and listen to the dems whine like women about how the gop is mistreating them and I will be RIGHT HERE laughing my firm white ass off at each one of you.

"In a restaurant somewhere in Washington D.C.

Waiter: Good afternoon. May I take your order?

Pelosi: Yes. I want a tuna salad sandwich on whole wheat, with cole slaw on the side and a Diet Coke. Bring it as soon as possible. I'm in a hurry.

Waiter: Yes, ma'am.

Thirty minutes later

Pelosi: Waiter!

Waiter: Yes, ma'am. What is it?

Pelosi: I ordered my lunch a half-hour ago and it's still not here! I said I was in a hurry.

Waiter: Oh, the restaurant has deemed that you received your lunch and have eaten it.

Pelosi: That's ridiculous. I haven't received my order, and I haven't eaten anything.

Waiter: Perhaps I wasn't clear. The restaurant has deemed that you have already eaten your tuna salad sandwich and the side order of cole slaw and that you have finished drinking your Diet Coke.

Pelosi: What is this "deemed" shit?

Waiter: We figured you would know.

Pelosi:

Waiter: We've also deemed that your bill is $13.75. Please pay the cashier. Have a nice day."

www.parkwayreststop.com

"Rather than passing the Senate bill and then passing the fixes, the House will pass the fixes under a rule that says the House "deems" the Senate bill passed after the House passes the fixes."
voices.washingtonpost.com

According to Pelosi they will debate the bill after they pass it.
They will find out what is in the bill after they pass it.
There is a big hurry to pass it because it doesn't go into effect until after the 2012 elections when minimal damage to Democrats and Obama is perceived.
Of course there will be 10 years of taxes to pay for 6 years of service. After that all hell breaks loose.

mistreating them because this will change the game and any complants from the dems THEN will show that this isnt about health care..NEVER BEEN about health care....

can anyone say dick tater.

Danni gets 50 Drudgy Points for pushing El Sidney over the edge.

Incompetence, indeed, lmao.

Such a rude little Cid.

how does your a$$ feel after hussein f*cked it so hard?

For some of us, the priests already got it loosened it up... so it wasn't all that bad.

-There is a big hurry to pass it because it doesn't go into effect until after the 2012 elections

More myth.

There are several industry reforms that go into effect immediately, including breaks for small business and children not being disallowed for preexisting conditions.

Rethugs trying to run on revoking the Bill in the fall will have to argue after the fact that these children should not have the health insurance that the Bill allows them, and that small business should give back their tax breaks.

Good luck with that.

For some of us, the priests already got it loosened it up... so it wasn't all that bad.

#61 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2010-03-16 11:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry to hear that - you sure it was a priest? Not your real "father"?

Yeah, I'm pissed off this morning - if you're not, then you don't love this country. It is absolute BS what some power brokers are doing to pass this obamination of a bill through - HOPE AND CHANGE.

Say all you want libtards - you got it without vasoline. How does it feel? Idiots. And yes, obammy is incompetent. Unfit for leadership - still out on the campaign trail. Pitiful

(We're doing everything possible not to be held accountable by America for this piece of shit)

#1 | Posted by cookfish at 2010-03-16 09:11 AM

Very soon you'll be paying for my insurance. I can't wait for your taxes to go up.

From the article:

conservatives warned that Pelosi's use of deem-and-pass in this way would run afoul of the Constitution. They pointed to a 1998 Supreme Court ruling that said each house of Congress must approve the exact same text of a bill before it can become law. A self-executing rule sidesteps that requirement, former federal appellate judge Michael McConnell argued in a Wall Street Journal op-ed.

Pelosi is 100% WRONG!

- obammy is incompetent. Unfit for leadership - still out on the campaign trail. Pitiful

And about to pass reforms that 7 Pres for 70 years tried to pass.

Including that Socialist Nixon, who push/passed Employee Benefits law.

"still out on the campaign trail. Pitiful"

Well, I remember another president who went back out on the "campaign trail" in his efforts to sell the privatization of Social Security....he failed miserably unlike Barack Obama who seems to be succeeding.

Seems to be hope for Democrats after all for the next election. With Obama's numbers tanking, and certainly tanking further after this fiasco, this can only be good for those Democrats still holding at least a little connection to their citizens.

www.telegraph.co.uk

(We're doing everything possible not to be held accountable by America for this piece of shit)

--------------

HOOFUCKINGRAY!

I didn't even have to say it.

Totalitarians always believe their higher vision allows them to ignore the law. If the Dems do this, it will make November worse than it already will be. Much worse.

If Pelosi does this, I am voting 100% RNC in November to take away her "Speaker of the House" standing. I can't vote her out, but I can damn well make sure her party doesn't have the majority.

In November Republicans will be running on a platform of "bring back pre-existing conditions", "Rescission is fun for Cancer Patients!" and of course, their all time favorite, "let the working scum get their health care at the ER."

If Pelosi does this, I am voting 100% RNC in November to take away her "Speaker of the House" standing. I can't vote her out, but I can damn well make sure her party doesn't have the majority.

#71 | Posted by kanrei

Kanrei you would vote RNC anyways because you now know this Admin will stand up to your beloved Israel.

"but I can damn well make sure her party doesn't have the majority."

With your one vote???

Kanrei you would vote RNC anyways because you now know this Admin will stand up to your beloved Israel.

#73 | Posted by jackass

I have no beloved Israel. I am American.

With your one vote???

#74 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 11:59 AM

I live in Florida and said I would be voting RNC: do you really think they will only count it once?

I have no beloved Israel. I am American.

#75 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-03-16 12:01 PM

So is Lieberman and we all see where his loyalty lies.

I notice that cheese sales are rising dramatically in the wingnut marketplace....

"THE TIME FOR TALK IS OVER"

barak obama...the day before he went to ohio
TO TALK

and took kucinch with him and HUMILIATED the little fellow in his own district in order to get him to change his vote...you remember his vote...the one he said he would NOT vote yes on with this bill that hasnt changed a bit......SO DENNY baby...are you going to be just another lying goddam democrat or show us why you great looking wife stays with you....

What are the Democrats going to run on? We passed a massive bill without waiting to see what it will cost, that we couldn't unveil to the Public, and that we couldn't pass with an up or down vote? Sounds like a receipe for a new Majority to me.

I am imagining the face of people in Britain as they read in SPOKANEJIM's linked article about how Americans are unhappy about health care reform. I feel sure they are shaking their heads and thinking how stupid Americans really are.

78

what the fuck does that mean??

-bring back pre-existing conditions", "Rescission is fun for Cancer Patients!" and of course, their all time favorite, "let the working scum get their health care at the ER."

Yep, that's what they'll be running on in the fall.

"What are the Democrats going to run on?"

You're kidding right???

AND lets see...if botoxmomma does this, its my understanding the the bill will be said to have been "deemed passing" without an actual vote

so let me seriously ask you radical leftwing commie pinko subversive marxist stooges...( im joking, stop breathing hard...)

but Seriously...do you REALLY want to open that can of worms???????

-What are the Democrats going to run on?

No one will care how it passed, or how many pages it was.

Dems will run on the breaks for small business and children who are healthy because Repubes couldn't protect insurers from being forced to cover them.

Obama to his whopping crowd of 200 in Ohio yesterday:

"Obama: Premiums Will Decrease 3000% So You Should Get A Raise When H'care Is Passed"
www.youtube.com

Once again, don't believe your lying eyes.

danni and corky...you got one word wrong

its what they will be running FROM......and its the american people they will be running from but they WILL have some help...the THugs and goons from unions will help of course and when the massive bulk of the media is in your pocket and kisses your ass on a daily basis...well those do help you run...

"do you REALLY want to open that can of worms???????"

It isn't a new can, it's the same one the Republicans opened a long time ago.

In November Republicans will be running on a platform of "bring back pre-existing conditions", "Rescission is fun for Cancer Patients!" and of course, their all time favorite, "let the working scum get their health care at the ER."

#71 | Posted by danni at

first statement is a lie just like pelosi said the same false thing..gop has talked about how they can do this and not break the whole system with people virtually signing up for insurance on their way to the hospital but barry wants none of it as this HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT HEALTH CARE...and your class warfare statement is just as false and I sense that your know its false as well...because its another CARVILE TALKING point and little more.

can you give a case of when the gop used anything approaching this 'slaughter solution'...I dont recall it....

Dems will run on the breaks for small business and children who are healthy because Repubes couldn't protect insurers from being forced to cover them.

#86 | Posted by Corky

An the American people are going to celebrate all these Healthy Chidren and wonderfull economy in 8 months by re-electing them? Thanks for the laugh.

"first statement is a lie just like pelosi said the same false thing..gop has talked about how they can do this and not break the whole system"

Talked. Never did. They had ample opportunity but somehow never got around to it (gee, I wonder why). Now the Democrats will.

The Bills have already passed both chambers. This is just the process to reconcile them.

#34 | Posted by Corky

That ain't what they are trying to do ace.

and dont forget little marcello I think his name is

schumer and turbin SHAMElesslY put him out there with an obvious written speech about his mother who died from a desease..not lack of health care who we NOW KNOW...her mother worked for washington community action(something, cant read last word)

which is funded by GEORGE sORoS....and thier goals list things such as shared communities and a TRUE DEmocRATIC society...(translate..socialis
t)...and social justice...

and AS BECK asked...where were these people as the mom was vomiting blood but now are all about using the little boy as a trained animal..

it was pathetic..........and I also in turn dispise this use from either side.

BUT you said they would run on that platform of NOT outlawing that. and now you said they talked about it....you cant be right on both sides.

#91 The Dems will fend off worse than normal mid term losses by having addressed the problems with at least some immediate positive effects, a deposit on other reforms that take place over the next few years.

Which is much better than running on, "We did nothing!"

ALL RIGHT>>
THREADS COOKIN NOW....

CBO has posted a comment about the 'DOUBLE COUNTING" of the dems on medicare...
where IS that thing...

says that dems CAN NOT use mediacare cuts to pay for added people and THEN use that same money somewhere else and get the same result on deficit.

ah but dems wont give a shit about that...pelosi will just tell us...well you can find out about it after it passes..
AND YOU DUPES are falling for it....

"The Republican majority in Congress approved a national debt limit increase using a self-executing rule similar to the Slaughter Solution."

And how did the court decide???
#19 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 10:25 AM

In that case, the version of the legislation that was presented to the House contained a clerk's error with respect to one term, so the House and Senate voted on slightly different versions of the bill and the President signed the version passed by the Senate. The court held that because there was an enrolled bill, voted on and signed by members of both houses, that there was conclusive evidence that it was passed by Congress.

But that case doesn't matter much when considering the "Slaughter Solution," where they are considering passing a House Rule stating that they deem the bill to have passed, without ever having actually voted on the bill. This proposal seems to be disposed of entirely by the Supreme Court, who held in Clinton v. City of New York that:

Article I of the United States Constitution requires that before proposed legislation may "become a Law," "(1) a bill containing its exact text must be approved by a majority of the Members of the House of Representatives; (2) the Senate must approve precisely the same text; and (3) that text must be signed into law by the President."

"a TRUE DEmocRATIC society...(translate..socialis
t)"

Beck, Beck, Beck. Sick. Sick. Sick.

corkster..I really dont think so because just as this whole things HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT HEALTH CARE..then the opposition isnt all about that either..

its a govt entitlement in the MULTIPLE TRILLIONS and dont EVEn tell me that deficit will be reduced and such..NOT when I just mentioned the 'accounting trick' of double counting that dems expect to get by americans who they THINK are too stupid to understand it....

but you cant deny it

hee hee

JOE

you made one slight error

you quote the constitution...and the left NOW no matter what they said about bush.
DOeSNT GIVE A FUCK about the constitution...its just in thier way for the moment....

Republicans have filibustered every attempt to get health care reform for the American people and you say the Democrats think the people are stupid???

That's hilarious.

Which is much better than running on, "We did nothing!"

#96 | Posted by Corky

Can't they campaign on passing Cap and Trade in the Assembly? That should push them over the top!

Danni and Corky are still in deniel over the poll results about this pig in the poke.

What are the Democrats going to run on?

No one will care how it passed, or how many pages it was.

Dems will run on the breaks for small business and children who are healthy because Repubes couldn't protect insurers from being forced to cover them.

#85 | Posted by Corky at 2010-03-16 12:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think the only things that people will be running on if this gets passed are the banks.

Bankrupt America, here we come. *Ozzy sings crazy train in the background*

AND ANOTHER example of dems from national review

someone actually came out and said the following

that abortion needed to be paid for with this bill because otherwise there would be too many babies born and put a strain on the system.

nOW tell me the left ISNT THE CULTURE OF DEATH....

Wissy et al seem to think those opposed to the bill are all wingnuts.... no, many the nearly 60 percent that still support a public option also show up in the opposed numbers..... not to mention the nearly 80 percent that want reform passed and nearly that many who approve of the individual reforms in the bill.

But Dems do thank wingnuts for all their concern for the Dem majority.

Republicans have filibustered every attempt to get health care reform for the American people and you say the Democrats think the people are stupid???

That's hilarious.

#103 | Posted by danni at

save the laughs for when you come up with the right premise for a comment..you know good and well this is just a talking point and nothing else...and its a lie as well...
they should stall and put up every roadblock they can according to the parlimentarin before this entitlement is passed...BEFORE Anyone knows whats in it....which is about as stupid a thing to do as any politician as ever come up with...but they HAVE to do it that way
everytime obama talks about it..MORE PEOPLE dont want it.

Its about time they got ANY form of this through, Period. This is very like the SS measure, lots of noise up front from certain quarters, and 20 years later just try and get people to give it up, people on either side of the aisle. If this passes, 20 years from now if you ask a conservative/liberal/anyone to put health-care back the way is was in '09 they will look at you like you just offered to drop your pants and sing Greensleeves, guaranteed. In other words; This has been a lot of chin wagging and hair pulling for something that should be a no brainer, get it done for the good of America Nancy!

How do you spin like that and not tip over?

I use facts instead of myths.

CORKY 108

I for one am more than willing to put the careers of every dem congressman on the LINE to say that you are wrong...question they have to ask is

ARE THEY WILLing to do that????????

Boy Racer doesn't understand the world "solvent". Maybe Monmmy and Daddy Racer can explain it.

#110 | Posted by boyracer_x at 2010-03-16 12:32 PM | Reply | Flag: Newsworthy

DAMN CORK

post 113 was downright dramatic dont you think??????

"Danni and Corky are still in deniel over the poll results about this pig in the poke."

Not at all but then I could write a poll question which would bring exactly the opposite results. Secondly, even if Democrats lose seats in both houses because of this it is still the right thing to do. People are denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions all the time, I have family members who are. Republicans had years in the majority and never fixed it. This bill, though not what most of us had hoped for does fix things like pre-existing conditions and will help millions of Americans. Any Democrat who votes for the bill and loses his reelection can be proud that they did the right thing.

From Danni:

"Ethics have nothing to do with the discussion, the rule was used previously, there is nothing unethical about using it again for whatever purpose it is legal do use it for. It is also an ethical obligation for Pelosi to use whatever tools she has at her disposal to further legislation which she believes is in the best interest of her constituents. For her not to do so would be unethical, IMHO."

Unfortunately Danni, it does not matter what Nancy Pelosi believes, but only what her constituents want and believe, that is how she is to vote. If they do not want the bill, she is to vote no, if they do want the bill as it is, she is to vote yes. That is all, she is not paid to think, she is not paid to make decisions based on what she thinks is best for the people, but rather represent what the people want.

By doing what she believes, rather than what the constituents whom she represents and who elected her, she is not fulfilling her office.

MARK STYNE said it pretty good yesterday
and he may have been quoting someone else
this entitlement will tilt the balance of the state and the citizen.

and he is correct in my opinion which is why this ISNT ABOUT health care and has NEVER BEEN ABOUT health care....its about power and control over 1/6 of the economy and power and control over YOU AND Your life...in order to put you in a position where you will HAVE To vote for them to keep your needs met...

-downright dramatic

I might be able to read more of your posts if the type didn't give me headaches.....

"That is all, she is not paid to think, she is not paid to make decisions based on what she thinks is best for the people, but rather represent what the people want."

Laughable. You obviously do not understand what representative government is about. It is not about taking polls and voting the will of the people. It is about electing representatives who go to Washington and determine what is best, if they decide wrong the people can vote them out in the next election. My twelve year old grandson has a better understanding of how our government works than you do.

danni

YEARS to fix it...yeah okay....cant completely disagree with you here as mUCH AS I WOULD like but the fact remains..dems would have blocked any effort by gop if they had...I believe...much like other bush agenda items...they blocked those waiting on a dem majority..

#118

Unfamiliar with the concept of "leadership".

Of course, were this country governed by polls, we'd likely all be speaking German now.

This bill, though not what most of us had hoped for does fix things like pre-existing conditions and will help millions of Americans.
Posted by danni

Make sure you tell the Lawn Service how you sided with them. (If they can understand English)

"....its about power and control over 1/6 of the economy and power and control over YOU AND Your life.."

Paranoia strikes deep
into your life it will creep.

"Make sure you tell the Lawn Service how you sided with them. (If they can understand English)"

You must be talking about those folks Bush said were coming here to do jobs "Americans won't do."
I know some Americans who do those jobs who will benefit by this bill.

nOW tell me the left ISNT THE CULTURE OF DEATH....

#107 | Posted by afkabl2

The party that's traditionally stood against the death penalty and unjust wars and better health care for all and against ecocide due to over population?

The Left ISN'T the culture of death.

The right ARE the culture of lies, immorality and death.

Yer welcome, btw.

Bankrupt America, here we come.

#106 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

Back-asswards as usual.

Bankruptcies due to medical bills are one of the biggest reasons FOR health care reform.

Bankrupt America there you are.

This reform bill works against bankruptcies.

It is estimated by the government to create a one percent increase in overall spending on healthcare over ten years (in a time where HC costs increase by double digits practically annually) and in return yer getting tens of millions more people with proper insurance.

In short, yer not paying attention.

Again.

Be Well.

"..dems would have blocked any effort by gop if they had..."

Pathetic excuse which isn't even true, the Dems did not block all Republican bills as they do Democratic bills. Even though the Republicans do filibuster virtually every bill the Democrats still try, to their credit.

#121 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 12:39 PM | Reply | Flag:
#123 | Posted by Corky at 2010-03-16 12:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, if that is what the people wanted, that is what should be done.

Danni, you said this "It is not about taking polls and voting the will of the people." I guess that is the way of thinking in Washington that gets us into these things.

I take it you had no problem with how 9/11 was handled, the Iraq and Afghanistan war, the surge, or anything else on either side of the political isle??

Their job is to do what we say. If it is clear that their constituency does not want the proposed measures, it is their responsibility to say No. They don't do what they want to do, they do what the people say, and what the people want.

This is why Federal controls do not work. State control of many issues would be much better, then they would have the ability to do what their citizens wanted, rather than what some man/woman on a power trip decided they wanted against their will.

It is about the will of the people, that is what the country was founded for. No more false representation.

I see you would have preferred to stay in Britain.

Sure EXPSREDEMPTION under your new system of government by poll we can eliminate elections.

Paranoia strikes deep
into your life it will creep.

#125 | Posted by danni at

and if this bill passes
you will have higher taxes

but the left doesnt give a twit
cause they are so full of shit
as they praise the messiah barry
and we sink into the abyss of nary
a buck to our name
or a man in the game
but lo and behold
a party so bold
returned to power
to the delight of the same
people who said its OVER..
mmmmm mmmmmm mmmmmmm

sure spud

the left supports the murder of innocent life in the womb and now tells us that abortion is needed as a way to keep the population down so obama can pass ANYTHING to keep his leftwing on the plantation..

but NOooooooooooooooooooooooooo thats not a culture of death....

#130 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

People still get elected genius. If you think about it more than the 1/10 of a second that you did before posting you would realize that an election is much like a poll, if not the exact same thing.

People will still fail to represent, because they become power hungry and seek their own benefits, kind of like Congress voting on their own pay raises when we are in economic crises as a country, and their constituents can't even get a job let alone a raise.

You will always have idiots, but keeping idiots there and allowing, even encouraging, idiots to make decisions against those they are representing is how we get to where we are today in the governmental party system.

131

okay so it needs a little editing...I was doing that as CORK says sometimes...
ON THE FLY...

ANOTHER obama lie using a prop and moral blackmail

ah but Im sure its just a right wing conspiracy thing

gatewaypundit.firstthings.com

I see the Danni Dump got to El Sidney

#133

I prefer Congresspeople who vote their convictions, if you can find one, to those who vote their job.

I see the Danni Dump got to El Sidney

#137 | Posted by Corky

Sure didn't take long for one of you Ladies to flag it.

Boy Racer doesn't understand the world "solvent".

Wisgod is making veiled references to the substances his mother breathed through a rag while he was in utero.

"Sure didn't take long for one of you Ladies to flag it."

You can ask RCADE, I never flag anyone no matter how much they deserve it.

#135 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

Dumb cunt seems to be throwing quite a temper tantrum.

#138 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2010-03-16 01:03 PM

lol! If these threads are evidence of anything it's that these debates are more about ego than anything.

Mother jokes again, #2?

prefer Congresspeople who vote their convictions, if you can find one, to those who vote their job.

#139 | Posted by Corky

and here is a question for you...as danni mentioned...they vote the way they want and then the voters decide...( is that about it young lady)

or do they take into account that they are there to represent all those people in the first place and before something THIS maSSive is passed onto your GRANDCHRILDENS grandchildren...maybe they SHOULD listen to the people which they HAVENT....

sort of a chicken before the egg question if you will....

"Sure didn't take long for one of you Ladies to flag it."

You can ask RCADE, I never flag anyone no matter how much they deserve it.

#142 | Posted by danni

OK, that leaves Corky.

#145 AFKAbL

Did you know that chickens have lips?

-before something THIS maSSive is passed onto your GRANDCHRILDENS grandchildren..

NO, BL2, it was your beloved GW that passed trillions in tax cuts for the rich and wars onto our children's credit cards.... this Bill is passed on budget and according to the CBO and economic forecasters saves billions.

one more on culture of death

DEMS who believe in death of innocent life have said

that there will be NO prohibtion of taxpaid abortions mentioned in discussions between waxman and stupac.

but NO...leftists arent about death or nothing are they??????

and NOOOOOOooooooooooooooo this shit doesnt pay for abortion...NOooooooooo not at all

DUPeS.

I only flag Wissy's posts. All of them.

Obammy now using bribery to pass bill - yeah, leadership we can believe in. Competence? Amazing how this guy fooled you idiots.

www.telegraph.co.uk

"The president will refuse to make fund-raising visits during November elections to any district whose representative has not backed the bill.

A one-night presidential appearance can bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars in funds which would otherwise take months to accumulate through cold-calling by campaign volunteers."

Chicago thuggary.

Worst President and most corrupt administration ever. We are the most embarrassing generation. These idealogs will do anything and I do mean anything to ruin this country with this socialism. Even with the House and Senate under Republican control next year, it will be almost impossible to root all the cancer of this bill if passed.

bush deficit../....460 billion

moved into trillion dollar with TARP....overwhelmingly supported by DEMOCRATS and a YEs VOTE from senator barry wayne obama...

( I put this on because I KNOW that you want the FULL and WHOLE story to your little comment.)

-The president will refuse to make fund-raising visits during November elections to any district whose representative has not backed the bill.

Wow! Nothing like that's ever happened before!

Frakking moron.

Did you know that chickens have lips?

#148 | Posted by ExpsRedemption

NO but I do know that corky's mother used to dress him funny and all the little kids made fun of him which is why he is the way he is today.....

Well, I remember another president who went back out on the "campaign trail" in his efforts to sell the privatization of Social Security....he failed miserably unlike Barack Obama who seems to be succeeding.

The latest poll has a 10-point gap between against and for for this attrocity.

The fundamental difference between then and now was when the public soured to Bush's plan he respected their wishes and gave it up.

"The president will refuse to make fund-raising visits during November elections to any district whose representative has not backed the bill."

I'd be happier than Michelle Obama in mud, and vote NO.

#139 | Posted by Corky at 2010-03-16 01:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

AS you have said, those who vote their conviction are few and far between, thus it would be better to have someone who voted what the people represented (as you put it, "their job") than someone who voted for whatever they personally wanted.

Also, would you feel the same way if you had a completely conservative representative in your state or district that voted his or her conviction in complete contrast to what the large majority of the constituents wanted? I mean, he/she would be voting their convictions and that is what you wanted.

Leave my dead mother out of this, BL2. She wouldn't fuck you, either.

The president will refuse to make fund-raising visits during November elections to any district whose representative has not backed the bill.

RIGHT

and just before he got on a plane to go to OHIO and TALK ABOUT IT, he said that time to TALK WAS OVER...

#159

Danni was right, you were standing behind the door when the lessons on representational government were handed out.

-10-point gap between against and for for this attrocity.

And the against are divided between Socialist/Muslim Haters and people who want a public option added...... so this meme about the majority being against the Bill for the same reasons is absurd.

the left supports the murder of innocent life in the womb and now tells us that abortion is needed as a way to keep the population down so obama can pass ANYTHING to keep his leftwing on the plantation..

but NOooooooooooooooooooooooooo thats not a culture of death....

You are correct. It is not a culture of death.

It is the culture of life.

Sustainability = Life.

Over population = mass death.

Plus you get the additional morality of not turning women into property and societal brood mares.

Rtards are okay with children going to bed hungry and millions dying or going bankrupt due to excessive medical bills. Okay with torture and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis.

Face it, liberals are pro life.

Conservatives like you might as well just join the Taliban or a neo-nazi party due to your disrespect of life.

Be Well.

ALL RIGHT}
LUNCH

but let me leave you with a little link to more proof that all we have in the oval office is a CHICAGO PUNK AND THUG who talks real nice.
and this time IM not limiting that chraracterization to the ballet dancing, SHOWER STABBING< rhom asswipe..

despicable behavior from the man who is SUPPOSED TO BE president of ALL of us which I never believed in the first place.

www.telegraph.co.uk

AND LET Me add...the extreme radical leftists here and around wont give a fuck about this and it wont make us on the right anymore likely to give a shit about changing the 'TONE' like dems LIE and bullshit about all the time

BUT surely a moderate would look at this and go..
uh I dont think i agree with that..

Sure. The American Public loves this type honest politics and certainly would cheer this tactic by the majority party in power.

#7 | Posted by wisgod

lol - yeah, right - like poeple really care about procedural stuff. You guys live in fantasy land.

The "American people" don't know much, and aren't interested in much. They'll let it slide, I think.

Face it, liberals are pro life.

#164 | Posted by dethspud

Liberals where for death, before they were against it. CrAzY lib "logic"

""The president will refuse to make fund-raising visits during November elections to any district whose representative has not backed the bill.

A one-night presidential appearance can bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars in funds which would otherwise take months to accumulate through cold-calling by campaign volunteers."

Chicago thuggary."

Sometimes people are so ignorant that it is funny. This is one of those times.

yeah thats right danni...keep trying to make statements like this just go away..its okay sweety...we understand your wanting to distance yourslef when the pres...THREATENS other dems like this....

and here is a link to the 3000 % comment from barry yesterday? I believe.

www.thefoxnation.com

sHIT

its time for lunch isnt it.

have a nice tuesday.....

hasta la pasta

"Also, would you feel the same way if you had a completely conservative representative in your state or district that voted his or her conviction in complete contrast to what the large majority of the constituents wanted? I mean, he/she would be voting their convictions and that is what you wanted."

I might not like it but I would be adult enough to admit that is how our system is SUPPOSED TO WORK.
Our system was created INTENTIONALLY to prevent mob rule which is what you seem to want. Politicians understand they have to please their constituents or face their rath at election time. Many have voted against the wishes of their constituency because they believed in what they were doing.
When the Civil Rights Bill of 1965 was passed Lyndon Johnson said he understood it would cost the Democratic Party the south for fifty years, it did. He and the Democrats who voted for that bill (along with Republicans) voted their consciences not their poll numbers.

The "American people" don't know much, and aren't interested in much. They'll let it slide, I think.

#167 | Posted by midiman

You're full of shit, I think.

Statements like what go away???

"The president will refuse to make fund-raising visits during November elections to any district whose representative has not backed the bill."

"A one-night presidential appearance can bring in hundreds of thousands of dollars in funds which would otherwise take months to accumulate through cold-calling by campaign volunteers."

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the President making clear what a vote against the health care bill will be for Democrats. It's not unethical, it's how politics is played. I like Obama more because he said those things. It is time for all Democrats to demand that if a politician want Democratic money then they support the Democratic agenda. Otherwise quit the party and be an independent.

Everyone here should realize that if the dems are successful, there will be precedent for the repubs to use the same tactics? Also, after Massachusetts we should recognize how November is going to change the balance of power?? So, next year the repubs will be able to do pretty much whatever they want. Maybe this will be great if it works, because the dems will be out of power for the next 50 years!

I don't think next years Republican machine will have much of a problem dismantling this house of cards.

-will be precedent for the repubs to use the same tactics?

Too late, they already have.

- Republican machine

farm4.static.flickr.com

"Everyone here should realize that if the dems are successful, there will be precedent for the repubs to use the same tactics?"

What they finally realized is that no matter what they do or don't do the Republicans will do whatever they can get away with to further their own agenda when/if they return to majority.

"The fundamental difference between then and now was when the public soured to Bush's plan he respected their wishes and gave it up.
#157 | Posted by JeffJ"

The fundamental difference was the both houses of congress passed health care reforms bills, and neither passed bills privatizing social security.

"I don't think next years Republican machine will have much of a problem dismantling this house of cards."

They will talk about it now but they won't do it even if they can later. Republicans really never do what they say they want to do because they realize that their own constituents make use of the same programs they demonize.

It is time for all Democrats to demand that if a politician want Democratic money then they support the Democratic agenda. Otherwise quit the party and be an independent.
#174 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag: Hypocrisy in 2 posts or less! A New Mandate by Danni.

So much for voting their own conscience I guess huh Danni?

I though you said you were for their voting what they really felt was right, rather than simply voting with the polls or a specific party.

Not only are you hypocritical here, but you are advocating that they disregard their constituents, and their own conscience (which you just advocated for) in order to tow the party line.

No wonder everything gets twisted in your head.

"The fundamental difference was the both houses of congress passed health care reforms bills, and neither passed bills privatizing social security."

Even though there were Republican majorities in both houses of Congress.

#179 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 01:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is different from what you said in 172 how?

"Not only are you hypocritical here, but you are advocating that they disregard their constituents, and their own conscience (which you just advocated for) in order to tow the party line."

Only if they want that party to give them money or if they want the President to campaign for them.
They can do what they think is best for their own reelection chances. They can vote against health care reform, just don't ask the DNC to help them later. Are you under some misconception that the Republican party doesn't do the same thing???

Pretty much sums up that the Dems don't really care what's in the "reform" bill as long as "something" gets passed.

Amazing. They will just pass a bucket of shit and let the administrative branch of our government take over and implement the bucket without any regard for the shit.

It still amuses me that the libs here are still supporting this clusterfuck gift to insurance companies, lawyers and pharma.

Have fun y'all.

Danni says,

"It is time for all Democrats to demand that if a politician want Democratic money then they support the Democratic agenda. Otherwise quit the party and be an independent."

This is meant in a positive sense.

Then says a few posts later,

"What they finally realized is that no matter what they do or don't do the Republicans will do whatever they can get away with to further their own agenda when/if they return to majority."

This, although the same thing she just advocated, is meant in the negative sense.

This is what we call hypocrisy and partisanship.

This is what I call wrong no matter who does it. Not everyone agrees, right Danni?

Danni: "Right!"

They will talk about it now but they won't do it even if they can later.
#181 | Posted by danni

Then they should be shown the fucking door too.

Are you under some misconception that the Republican party doesn't do the same thing???

#185 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 01:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

No, I am not under that misconception, I am under the impression that it is wrong when either side does it and I don't support it from either side, which is different than you because you cheer it on if it is your side, while at the same time cry because the other side is doing it at the same time.

Give me an h: "H"
Give me an y: "Y"
Give me an p: "P"
give me an.....

Whats that spell?.... "HYPOCRISY!"

"This, although the same thing she just advocated, is meant in the negative sense."

Apparently you don't see the difference between inter-party politics and actual Congressional processes. Amazing.

When this goes to the SCOTUS, I'll bet Obama will wish he kept his big mouth shut at the State of the Union Address.

"No, I am not under that misconception, I am under the impression that it is wrong when either side does it"

It isn't wrong for either party to tell those seeking reelection money from the party that they will either support the party agenda or not recieve party money. That isn't even a controversy except in your mind.

"When this goes to the SCOTUS, I'll bet Obama will wish he kept his big mouth shut at the State of the Union Address."

You have a very low opinion of SC members ability to be impartial don't you?

#190 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 02:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Would not the constituent and personal conscience overriding inner-party politics effect the Congressional processes?

I mean you just called for the Democrats to "vote with the agenda or else...!"

And then you claim that it is not going to have an effect on the Congressional processes.

I think you are the one who doesn't see the similarity.

In your eyes, the Republicans are functioning better than the Democrats at the moment. You said it yourself.

You have a very low opinion of SC members ability to be impartial don't you?

#193 | Posted by danni

They'll do just fine regarding this. All of them.

#192 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

NO Danni, I mean parties crying about the opposition and their partisanship not because you see that partisanship and agenda voting is wrong (when you said yourself that it just a few posts ago) but rather because the other party is doing it at the same time you are trying to do it.

You put yourself in a little bind, showing your hypocrisy in just a few short posts. I am pretty sure you don't have a clue what you are saying anymore.

To claim "We are not to vote by polls, but rather by conscience" then claiming "If you call yourself a Democrat, you should vote the Democratic Agenda no matter what (regardless of constituents or personal conscience)"

Is pretty bad, especially when it takes place in the span of less than 10 posts on the same thread talking about the same situation.

Do you talk to and fight with yourself a lot Danni?

#172 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 01:35 PM | Reply | Flag:
#174 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag:
#190 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 02:02 PM | Reply | Flag:
#192 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Give me an h: "H"
Give me a y: "Y"
Give me a p: "P"
give me an.....

Whats that spell?.... "HYPOCRISY!"

""If you call yourself a Democrat, you should vote the Democratic Agenda no matter what (regardless of constituents or personal conscience)"

If you want DNC money. That's the way the game is played and you're right, I do think the Republicans have been better at it than Democrats and I think most Republicans who post here would agree. I don't fault them for their ability to play politics well.

You can spell whatever you want but anyone who is halfway honest reading this thread will agree, you really don't understand the American political process.

The House's healthcare vote could be delayed until as late as Easter, House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) said Tuesday.

Could it be that Pelosi et al are getting an ear full and decided to release this statement? Why, just last weekend, the rubber was going to meet the road according to Madamme Fugly.

thehill.com

"Could it be that Pelosi et al are getting an ear full and decided to release this statement?"

Actually that's good news for me, I really don't want them to try that Slaughter Rule. Something tells me it will back fire on them.

Hey Danni,

How about, "if you get money from the taxpayers to pay your salary, benefits, trips, food, gifts, vacations, security etc... you better vote with the taxpayers agenda"

Since you think money dictates how people should vote.

Are you admitting that when the Democrats and Republicans give money that it is payment for the vote? Therefore, it is a bribe? And you stand behind that with adamant approval? Of is the funding there to help them make the best decision with their "personal conscience" and better serve the individuals who really gave them the money, over and above the "Democratic Party."?

So Danni, is the money to buy the votes, or is it to hep the people who paid in the money in the first place?

You have said agenda before, meaning that it is there to buy the votes no matter what the constituents or conscience says. Do you hold to your pro bribery stance?

Actually that's good news for me, I really don't want them to try that Slaughter Rule. Something tells me it will back fire on them.

#202 | Posted by danni

What about all the uninsured and Americans with pre-existing conditions? They have to wait until Easter? Have you no Heart?

#204 | Posted by wisgod at 2010-03-16 02:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah, they will have to wait until Easter of 2014 now. All because the democrats won't just vote the party agenda. Stupid conscience and constituents.

"All because the democrats won't just vote the party agenda. Stupid conscience and constituents."

Because some Democrats are receiving huge checks from the insurance industry as we post. Those Dems are thinking, who need DNC money if I can get so much from the insurance industry.

Because some Democrats are receiving huge checks from the insurance industry as we post.

Obama
Pelosi
Reid

I can hear Obama now (while lighting up a Kool). I has to wait until Easter, Clyburn? Brother ain't gonna git no love dis fall.

#207 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-03-16 02:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

I like how you put that in Alphabetical order there Kan.

Although those that are not getting checks from the insurance industry are getting checks from those who are getting checks from the insurance industry in the form of "perks" for their specific states.

When it call comes down to it, there is a lot of money laundering of taxpayer money taking place in Washington to make sure health care gets passed.

I like how you put that in Alphabetical order there Kan.

Coincidence.

A good bill would be shouted from the rooftops; a sell out bill would need to be "passed before it could be judged."

Coincidence.

#210 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-03-16 02:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

I always find this word funny, as anything that takes place at the same time another things takes place is a coincidence, meaning an incidence that takes place along with another incidence, whether connected or not.

I understand what you mean it as, and what we take the word to mean today, however I find it funny when people say things are coincidence as if it indicates that they were not with intention as well.

I think all the difficulty with this bill indicates that it is not a good bill. The fact that they know what is right to do in this situation, in providing a better bill, but are unwilling to dot, shows that they have minimal care about really fixing the situation. Its all for personal and partisan gain, on both sides.

Coincidence.
#210 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-03-16 02:56 PM

I always find this word funny, as anything that takes place at the same time another things takes place is a coincidence, meaning an incidence that takes place along with another incidence, whether connected or not.

I understand what you mean it as, and what we take the word to mean today, however I find it funny when people say things are coincidence as if it indicates that they were not with intention as well.

#212 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2010-03-16 03:02 PM

That's really fucking deep man.

It is just a coincidence that the health care bill is a piece of crap, and the US population in large number does not want the current bill.

See, coincidence, and yet related.

Now whenever you hear someone say something is a coincidence, you will think twice.

The people that are really wrong are the ones that say, "that was no coincidence." They are living in a completely separate, singular world.

Cookie actually has a point. The first thing I thought of when I heard this was, "is this really constitutional?" I don't know much about this procedure.
Wis, I am not saying all voters will buy it, but it does give House Dems the argument.
#17 | Posted by taxman
===========

Sorry if it has been answered ...yes it is

"Self-Executing" Rules Reported by the
House Committee on Rules 2006

Definition of "Self-Executing" Rule. One of the newer types is called a "selfexecuting"
rule; it embodies a "two-for-one" procedure. This means that when the House
adopts a rule it also simultaneously agrees to dispose of a separate matter, which is
specified in the rule itself. For instance, self-executing rules may stipulate that a discrete
policy proposal is deemed to have passed the House and been incorporated in the bill to
be taken up. The effect: neither in the House nor in the Committee of the Whole will
lawmakers have an opportunity to amend or to vote separately on the "self-executed"
provision. It was automatically agreed to when the House passed the rule. Rules of this
sort contain customary, or "boilerplate," language, such as: "The amendment printed in
[section 2 of this resolution or in part 1 of the report of the Committee on Rules
accompanying this resolution] shall be considered as adopted in the House and in the
Committee of the Whole."

I might not like it but I would be adult enough to admit that is how our system is SUPPOSED TO WORK.

#172 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 01:35 PM | Reply | Flag: So full of Shit my eyes are brown

You have to be the biggest liar on the DR. How can you look at yourself in the mirror? Just amazing.

It is just a coincidence that the health care bill is a piece of crap, and the US population in large number does not want the current bill.

See, coincidence, and yet related.

#214 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2010-03-16 03:11 PM

A regular Socrates, lol!

It has always amazed me how both sides cry ( call it un-constitutional) about a legal procedures/rules when used by the opposition then use the same procedures/rules when they gain control. It's legal and has been used by both parties.

When Republicans were in the minority, they railed against self-executing rules as being anti-deliberative because they undermined and perverted the work of committees and also prevented the House from having a separate debate and vote on the majority's preferred changes. From the 95th to 98th Congresses (1977-84), there were only eight self-executing rules making up just 1 percent of the 857 total rules granted. However, in Speaker Tip O'Neill's (D-Mass.) final term in the 99th Congress, there were 20 self-executing rules (12 percent). In Rep. Jim Wright's (D-Texas) only full term as Speaker, in the 100th Congress, there were 18 self-executing rules (17 percent). They reached a high point of 30 under Speaker Tom Foley (D-Wash.) during the final Democratic Congress, the 103rd, for 22 percent of all rules.

When Republicans took power in 1995, they soon lost their aversion to self-executing rules and proceeded to set new records under Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.). There were 38 and 52 self-executing rules in the 104th and 105th Congresses (1995-1998), making up 25 percent and 35 percent of all rules, respectively. Under Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) there were 40, 42 and 30 self-executing rules in the 106th, 107th and 108th Congresses (22 percent, 37 percent and 22 percent, respectively). Thus far in the 109th Congress, self-executing rules make up about 16 percent of all rules.

On April 26, the Rules Committee served up the mother of all self-executing rules for the lobby/ethics reform bill. The committee hit the trifecta with not one, not two, but three self-executing provisions in the same special rule.


wilsoncenter.org

Republicans are not only hypocrites but they are also stupid fer not realizing we live in an information age where their whaargarbl and BS can be checked out almost instantly by pressing a few buttons on a keyboard.

/Cue the "But, but, but 1/6th of the economy!!1!!" whaargarbl in one, two three...

Be Well.

It always ammazes me how people claim both parties have used it, but want to compare this bill that will control 1/6th of the economy to something that came nowhere near having that impact.

A regular Socrates, lol!
#217 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

Socrates didn't do sophistry.

So it doesn't matter the size and impact, right Spud? It's no wonder you live in a ass-backwards country.

#219 | Posted by dethspud at 2010-03-16 03:28 PM
Looking at how many times the deeming resolution has been used tells us nothing about whether this particular use of it would be constitutional.

WG...it is the rule...unless you can show where this use is against the rule. No it doesn't matter of the size of the impact.

Socrates didn't do sophistry.

#221 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2010-03-16 03:29 PM

Ok... Exps is a regular Protagoras, lol!

WG...it is the rule...unless you can show where this use is against the rule. No it doesn't matter of the size of the impact.

#224 | Posted by mmike at 2010-03-16 03:43 PM

Size doesn't matter here, but that doesn't tell us whether using it on 2 different bills is consitutional or not. I'm not saying it's unconstitutional, but that's the discussion that needs to happen.

Looking at how many times the deeming resolution has been used tells us nothing about whether this particular use of it would be constitutional.
#223 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE
============
LD... as partisan as the political climate is, with all the special interest groups, and the abundance of layers you would have thought the rule would have been challenged by now.

We will see if this use is challenged.

but that doesn't tell us whether using it on 2 different bills is consitutional or not.

Actually, already ruled on by the SCOTUS:

From the article:

conservatives warned that Pelosi's use of deem-and-pass in this way would run afoul of the Constitution. They pointed to a 1998 Supreme Court ruling that said each house of Congress must approve the exact same text of a bill before it can become law. A self-executing rule sidesteps that requirement, former federal appellate judge Michael McConnell argued in a Wall Street Journal op-ed.

Ok... Exps is a regular Protagoras, lol!
#225 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

Better.

*And Protagoras cries from the grave.... "Hey, WTF did I do?

"

"So it doesn't matter the size and impact, right Spud?"

If a process is constitutional then it is constitutional for small matters as well as big matters. Also, this claim about 1/6 of the economy is ridiculous, this bill is basicly insurance reform. It doesn't replace the insurance companies with a public entity or do make any radical changes to healthcare delivery.

#230

anal retentive

Upon learning that this move was, in fact, unconstitutional, President Obama was overheard saying "but it's just a G-d-damned piece of paper!"

#230
anal retentive
#232 | Posted by Corky

Only about my own.

-argued in a Wall Street Journal op-ed.

Is that what they call "established law" these days?

Upon learning that this move was, in fact, unconstitutional

#233 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-03-16 03:53 PM

I haven't seen any thing definitive one way or the other. Got something?

Is that what they call "established law" these days?

No, but the 1998 SCOTUS ruling is.

#234

lol. I was just thinking that even I wouldn't post the left-off quote marks..... well, maybe not...

LOD,
This article does: a 1998 Supreme Court ruling that said each house of Congress must approve the exact same text of a bill before it can become law.

-When Republicans took power in 1995, they soon lost their aversion to self-executing rules and proceeded to set new records under Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.). There were 38 and 52 self-executing rules in the 104th and 105th Congresses (1995-1998), making up 25 percent and 35 percent of all rules, respectively. Under Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) there were 40, 42 and 30 self-executing rules in the 106th, 107th and 108th Congresses (22 percent, 37 percent and 22 percent, respectively). Thus far in the 109th Congress, self-executing rules make up about 16 percent of all rules.

Interssting, Taters.

I'm not going to correct that... I'm not going to ...

If a process is constitutional then it is constitutional for small matters as well as big matters. Also, this claim about 1/6 of the economy is ridiculous, this bill is basically insurance reform. It doesn't replace the insurance companies with a public entity or do make any radical changes to healthcare delivery.

~Danni.

THIS.

Thanx fer that, Danni.

Saved Spud some typing right there.

Be Well.

Sooo, the average of about 25-30 percent of these rules used since 1998 were all unconstitutional?

Velly interesting...

I'm not going to correct that... I'm not going to ...

LOL.

Wot u did there. Spud is C!

Be Well.

LOD,
I think I found the ruling. Reading it now.

#225 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2010-03-16 03:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

I was going to respond to LOD's post about being a regular Socrates as well.

Socrates was known best for the Socratic method and helping lead people to the conclusion using their own logic. I have been talking to Democrats and Republicans on this board, and we all know that doesn't work

As Danni stated, they do not have their own conclusions, rather, only those of their parties agenda, of which she thinks is adequate representation through ignoring both personal conscience and the constituents who appointed the particular representative.

#244 |

Corky is make dyslexic typist look like this...

www.youtube.com

Sooo, the average of about 25-30 percent of these rules used since 1998 were all unconstitutional?

Yes and it was affirmed in 2005

The United States Constitution provides: "Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it becomes a law, be presented to the President of
the United States . . . ." U.S. Const., art. I, 7, cl. 2. Pursuant to this bicameralism requirement, a bill must be passed in
identical form by both chambers before it can become a law. See Clinton v. City of New York, 524 U.S. 417, 448 (1998)

www.citizen.org

Well, this sounds damning...

The Balanced Budget Act of 1997 is a 500-page document that became "Public Law 10533" after three procedural steps were taken: (1) a bill containing its exact text was approved by a majority of the Members of the House of Representatives; (2) the Senate approved precisely the same text; and (3) that text was signed into law by the President. The Constitution explicitly requires that each of those three steps be taken before a bill may "become a law." Art. I, 7. If one paragraph of that text had been omitted at any one of those three stages, Public Law 10533 would not have been validly enacted.

www.law.cornell.edu

How in the world does scrapping the House version of the bill and "deeming" the Senate version passed in the House jive with this?

Thanks Kanrei.

Obama's toilet paper

If this POS bill gets passed without an up/down vote, you can be sure that it will be challenged in the courts.

Here is the case I quoted and linked to above's name: PUBLIC CITIZEN,
Petitioner,
v.
CLERK, U.S. DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA,

August 2007

-Thus far in the 109th Congress, self-executing rules make up about 16 percent of all rules.

Seems to still be in use..... and has been for years. Of course, now that the Dems want to use it for something important, it shouldn't be used.... I get it.

EXPRSREDEMPTION doesn't have a clue about what I said or about the subjects we discussed. He doesn't even understand what a representative democracy is, why we hold elections or what is an ethical demand for a political party to make of its members who hold office. There is a great article, right on the front page, by a guy named Saletan which explains some of what I was attempting, unsuccessfully, to communicate to EXPRSREDEMPTION. Perhaps Mr. Saletan will be more successful but I doubt it because EXPRSREDEMPTION is one of those folks who holds an opinion regardless if the facts agree with it or not.

www.drudge.com

#252 | Posted by Corky at 2010-03-16 04:10 PM

Goal Posts moved from "it is Constitutional" to "well they did it too." Credibility= gone

"If this POS bill gets passed without an up/down vote, you can be sure that it will be challenged in the courts."

But, if this bill gets passed with an up/down vote, you can be sure that it will be challenged in the courts.

Let's be honest, no matter how the Dems pass health care reform it will be challenged, they may try to repeal it, they will campaign in Nov. attacking it and blah, blah, blah.
If we don't pass health care reform they will challenge something else, repeal something else, attack something else.

Business as usual.

#255 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 04:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Danni, you can't blame them as they are just voting with what their party mandates they vote for.

It seem s you don't understand that you say either. Therefore I take it as no surprise that I don';t understand what you say.

Maybe the democratic party can pay them for their votes too, as you stated that is what they are doing for the democratic representatives.

Your own words.

"Maybe the democratic party can pay them for their votes too, as you stated that is what they are doing for the democratic representatives."

Simple minds can't differentiate between a political party giving money to a politician's campaign fund and paying them. The rest of us can.

Some purists are only pure about things they disagree with..... others are pure all the time.

Wonder how that feels?

Commonly used congressional rules are commonly used until they are stricken by law.

Some purists are only pure about things they disagree with.....AKA Corky

others are pure all the time- AKA me and it feels good.

Commonly used congressional rules are commonly used until they are stricken by law.

Struck down in 1998 and affirmed in 2007. Read the SCOTUS ruling.

It is kind of hard when they continue to give them their campaign funds after they are elected in the form of sweetheart deals to their states in order to sway them over to your side.

Also, I looked at that article that you were discussing.

It talks about voting your conscience, however, you said they should vote based on who provided them money for their campaign, vote based on the agenda of the party, and not vote based on the polls of their constituents.

Then you said, if you are not going to vote along the party line, then get out of the party. Well that would not allow them to vote for what they think is best for the country, but rather what the agenda of the particular party is.

Whether you know it or not, you are advocating two different and contrary ideas at the same time.

Coincidence? I think so.

It might be instructive to see another case where the House and Senate passed different bills, and one was thrown out so that the other can be "deemed" to have passed in both.

This is what the court said in 2007 LOD: Pursuant to this bicameralism requirement, a bill must be passed in identical form by both chambers before it can become a law.

Pelosi can vote on the already passed Senate version, or she can amend it and then send it back, but she cannot amend it without the Senate voting on it.

Coincidence? I think so.

#260 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2010-03-16 04:29 PM

Wow man you're really on today.

Danni says:

You have to vote what you campaigned on the year before. Thus being elected based on what the constituents wanted, that is why you campaigned that way.

Then you have to vote in line with the agenda, no matter how that differs from what you campaigned on the year before

Then you have to vote your conscience which may differ from what you campaigned on, and what your parties agenda is saying,

And also, don't forget, it doesn't matter what your constituents want, because it only matters who gives you the money when it comes to what you vote on.

All money is the taxpayers, and the GOP used the taxpayers dollars to vote for a war no one wanted, those scumbags...

Even though the taxpayers are the ones that allow the parties to have money, and ultimately are the ones that are in charge, it is fine to ignore them and what they want.

This is what Danni things the government system is.

Taxation without Representation anyone?

You know this is only going to get worse. Imagine when the kids we are raising today are running the country after being raised in this environment as being "normal politics."

This is what the court said in 2007 LOD: Pursuant to this bicameralism requirement, a bill must be passed in identical form by both chambers before it can become a law.

Pelosi can vote on the already passed Senate version, or she can amend it and then send it back, but she cannot amend it without the Senate voting on it.

#262 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-03-16 04:33 PM

Yeah, did you see the piece of Clinton v. City of New York I posted above?
www.drudge.com

I want to say you're right but I want to see more discussion on that. So far we have mostly retarded partisan rantings about which party did what, and Exps going on about coincidences like he's some kind of modern day philosopher. Looks like there's a real question on constitutionality here (that may be moot if they don't pursue this).

Struck down in 1998 and affirmed in 2007. Read the SCOTUS ruling.
#259 | Posted by kanrei
=============

KAN...the 1998 ruling was about the Line Item Veto...do you have any links about the rule being unconstitutional?

Imagine when the kids we are raising today are running the country after being raised in this environment as being "normal politics."

#265 | Posted by kanrei

No kidding. I'll bet when I get home tonight, the beer is gone and my 2 boys will tell me they overrulled my order not to drink it by deeming it OK. Of course, I'll do to them what we'll do to the Democrats next November....kick thier asses.

Once we get this passed there will be nothing that can stop the arrival of socialized medicine. This will benefit millions of small businesses and self employed Americans.

MMIKE:

www.citizen.org

"Pursuant to this bicameralism requirement, a bill must be passed in identical form by both chambers before it can become a law."

This case was about a Bill passing the House, changing in the Senate, and the Speaker signing it as passed in both houses. It is from August 2007.

The 1998 ruling states, "(1) a bill containing its exact text was approved by a majority of the Members of the House of Representatives; (2) the Senate approved precisely the same text; and (3) that text was signed into law by the President. The Constitution explicitly requires that each of those three steps be taken before a bill may "become a law." Art. I, 7. If one paragraph of that text had been omitted at any one of those three stages, Public Law 10533 would not have been validly enacted."

LOD,
If I may change your bolds:

The 1998 ruling states, "(1) a bill containing its exact text was approved by a majority of the Members of the House of Representatives; (2) the Senate approved precisely the same text; and (3) that text was signed into law by the President.

If one word changes, then the bill MUST start over.

LOD,
If I may change your bolds:

The 1998 ruling states, "(1) a bill containing its exact text was approved by a majority of the Members of the House of Representatives; (2) the Senate approved precisely the same text; and (3) that text was signed into law by the President.

If one word changes, then the bill MUST start over.

I can understand the issue with constitutionality, however I know if I talk about that, the conversation will stop as many on either side of the isle will not want to talk about the fact that a good deal of government policy and practice is, was or will be unconstitutional in the future.

Most don't like this because it doesn't help America's title of the most hypocritical nation in the world.

They don't want to think that they government can do anything bad, or anything against their will. They think this because that is what they were told to think, if they are of the thinking sort.

Nothing is ever what it seems when it comes to politics, legislature and even the SC rulings. If we set a precedence its got to stick for a while, it can't be overturned based on who it is advantageous toward.

We need to come to a point in America where wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or what it will accomplish.

I just watched the movie "Law Abiding Citizen" last night. I liked it. I think it describes a lot of the problems with much of our systems.

Politics and policy over people.

Once we get this passed there will be nothing that can stop the arrival of socialized medicine. This will benefit millions of small businesses and self employed Americans.

#269 | Posted by jackass

If this passes the US will lose its AAA credit rating. This is an unstainable, stupid liberal wet dream that must fail because we can't afford it. It will cost more and hurt small businesses and there will be many less self employed Americans jackass.

"Of course, I'll do to them what we'll do to the Democrats next November....kick thier asses."

BAck in 1994 if my son had drank my beer I could have kicked his ass. Unfortunately, it is not 1994 now, it is 2010 and that same son would let me beat on him while he drank my beer right in front of me, laughing the whole time. Republicans are thinking 2010 is going to be like 1994 but Clinton didn't get health care passed, Obama probably will. Big difference.

"If this passes the US will lose its AAA credit rating."

Link please and if the US is to lose AAA credit rating it will have little or nothing to do with this bill.

-Struck down in 1998 and affirmed in 2007. Read the SCOTUS ruling.

U-huh. And so why has the rule still been used so many times since then?

Because it is legal to do so, that's why.

his is an unstainable, stupid liberal wet dream that must fail because we can't afford it. It will cost more and hurt small businesses and there will be many less self employed Americans jackass.

#275 | Posted by RIGHTPOLICY at 2010-03-16 04:53 PM

How so? People will now be able to work for themselves without the worry of obtaining good affordable insurance. Most Americans probably can't even purchase insurance on their own. They disqualify people all the time.

I don't know if you can actually call this health care. Maybe health hope. There seems to be nothing more than simple hope that it will 1. stick 2. pay for itself at one point or another 3. last more than a brief period. 4. Bankrupt the country and therefore hurt the most the same individuals that it claimed it was going to help the most.

Rightpolicy, we can afford it. Greedy people with deep pockets like yourself will finally be forced to pay their fair share in taxes.

"They don't want to think that they government can do anything bad, or anything against their will. They think this because that is what they were told to think, if they are of the thinking sort."

Doesn't even realize he is just repeating what he has been told over and over since Ronald Reagan's famous seven words. Fact is, the government does many things, does most of them well, and if it weren't doing them we all would suffer. Personally, I like knowing the FDA approves drugs before I am given them, I like knowing our military can protect us from most forces, I like driving on our interstate highways. I like knowing the FAA is overseeing aviation. Personally, I'd rather not live in Mexico or any nation like it.

-Struck down in 1998 and affirmed in 2007. Read the SCOTUS ruling.

U-huh. And so why has the rule still been used so many times since then?

Because it is legal to do so, that's why.

#278 | Posted by Corky at 2010-03-16 04:55 PM | Reply | Flag: don't want to think that the government can do anything bad, or anything against will. think this because that is what they were told to think, if they are of the thinking sort.

#283 | Posted by ExpsRedemption at 2010-03-16 04:59 PM | Reply | Flag: Pedantics R' Us Flag

#281 | Posted by jackass at 2010-03-16 04:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

I haven't figured out if you are fishing all the time, or you really are that stupid. I hope it is the former, but fear the latter.

U-huh. And so why has the rule still been used so many times since then?

Because it is legal to do so, that's why.

#278 | Posted by Corky at 2010-03-16 04:55 PM

The rule itself wasn't shut down by the rulings, but it's the particular use of it that Pelosi's advocating that comes in question. I.E., scrapping the House bill, deeming the Senate bill passed, and presenting that to the president. The examples of the rule's use I found on yahoo were more like tweaks to bills as opposed to replacements.

Republicans are thinking 2010 is going to be like 1994 but Clinton didn't get health care passed, Obama probably will. Big difference.

#276 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-16 04:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yet what will prevent the Repubs from using the same tactics when the next time they regain control of the congress and undo all of these changes?

-The rule itself wasn't shut down by the rulings,

That's right, so it's still in use, still "legal".

Parliamentarians, I imagine, will decide how it can specifically be used.

That's right, so it's still in use

#288 | Posted by Corky at 2010-03-16 05:21 PM

Just not in the way Pelosi has advocated.

You know what--let the ones in charge do whatever they want and just record them justifying the way they got it done.
Then when someone else is in charge use the exact same process to undo it. Then when they start going crazy with there "this is unprecedented, this is not how gov. is suppose to work--how dare they" nonsense just play the tape of them justifying them doing it.
Maybe then everyone in washington and on boards such as this will stop the partisan crap and we can actually get things done for the good of this country.

After reading this, I know DANNI will change her stance on the HC bill as she demonizes "Big Pharma" all the time.

www.politico.com

COMING SOON The drug industry, which has held off running ads until officials sign off on the final reconciliation bill, is growing more comfortable with the emerging legislation and is preparing a substantial pro-reform ad buy in 43 Democratic districts, according to a senior industry source. The amount and timing of the buy have not yet been set and hinge largely on action in the House. Still, the development is a substantial step forward from Monday morning, when industry officials, coming off a tough weekend of negotiating with Democratic staffers, said there were no ads in the works. The movement should also help appease the White House, which has been leaning on the industry to provide Democrats air cover, according to industry sources.

HOPE AND CHANGE! HOPE AND CHANGE!

By the way--didnt Obama say he was going to do things different and clean up Washington. Yet he is continuing the same corrupt crap and all his supports are just shrugging their shoulders going "What, thats how things are done in politics. Bush did it to"

Link please and if the US is to lose AAA credit rating it will have little or nothing to do with this bill.

#277 | Posted by danni

It has everything to do with the size of government and this reckless path we are on to entitlement programs that ALWAYS get bigger, NEVER smaller.

247wallst.com

247wallst.com

WHO is going to pay for all this? My kids, because you will most likely be sterilized to stop polluting the gene pool or will abort

"Yet what will prevent the Repubs from using the same tactics when the next time they regain control of the congress and undo all of these changes?"

Nothing except that they will then have to face the voters. What stopped them from repealing Social Security, Medicare, etc.???

"Then when they start going crazy with there "this is unprecedented, this is not how gov. is suppose to work--how dare they" nonsense just play the tape of them justifying them doing it."

When/if Republicans regain the majority they will use every trick just like they have done in the past. The actions that Democrats take now will have zero effect on Republicans later. If we use this procedure or if we don't use it the Republicans will still use it if it serves their purpose just as they have done many times already, though some here seem incapable of accepting that fact.

MMIKE:
www.citizen.org
"Pursuant to this bicameralism requirement, a bill must be passed in identical form by both chambers before it can become a law."
This case was about a Bill passing the House, changing in the Senate, and the Speaker signing it as passed in both houses. It is from August 2007.
#270 | Posted by kanrei
======

KA...this links to a Petition For A Writ of Certiorari not a final Supreme Court ruling

The fundamental difference was the both houses of congress passed health care reforms bills, and neither passed bills privatizing social security.

#180 | Posted by mOntecOre

With even stronger majorities, and every conceivably-sleazy buy-off and parlimentarian trick available and some not even yet conceived - yet, here we are. This bill STILL hangs in limbo after over a year of deliberation.

If this shit is so great, why in the hell is your party bribing members of your own party and pulling out all of the stops, including a bullshit measure where the house won't even vote on it?

"COMING SOON The drug industry, which has held off running ads until officials sign off on the final reconciliation bill, is growing more comfortable with the emerging legislation and is preparing a substantial pro-reform ad buy in 43 Democratic districts, according to a senior industry source."

I welcome their ads though I think their industry is as greedy as is the insurance industry. Can't reform everything in one session of Congress but hopefully they'll get their turn soon. I think every Congressman or Senator who voted for the Medicare drug bill should have to explain why they believed Medicare should be prohibited from negotiating for better prices.

"If this shit is so great, why in the hell is your party bribing members of your own party and pulling out all of the stops, including a bullshit measure where the house won't even vote on it?"

You know as well as I do Jeff, there are billions of dollars at stake and the big money is flowing from the insurance industry. This whole long ordeal has revealed that many in Congress are just paid puppets of the insurance industry lobbyists. I don't think many would contend, if they spoke honestly, that they really think Americans won't be better off with the passage of this bill. I mean, how can you be in favor of pre-existing conditions, rescission, etc.

Danni,

Actually is does affect what the Repubs do in the future bc if the Dems set a precedent with using these process' for a bill of this size then you cant really say anything in 4/8 yrs when they do it.

Despicable people. Dangerous times.

"Actually is does affect what the Repubs do in the future bc if the Dems set a precedent with using these process' for a bill of this size then you cant really say anything in 4/8 yrs when they do it."

They won't care if I say anything or not, but they will use this procedure if it serves their purpose then whether or not the Dems use it now.
People like to say "but the Republicans didn't use the nuclear option" well they didn't have to, the Democrats backed down and the Republicans got their nominee approved but don't kid yourself, if the Dems would not have backed down they would have done the nuclear option. I wish we would have forced their hand on that but Reid was weak then too.

"Dangerous times."

It's always dangerous times around my house for a pork chop.

I bet politicians hate the era we are in with technology bc everything they say or do is recorded. They cant wiggle out of stuff the way they use to
Hopefully voters will start paying attention and doing a little homework so we can get these leeches out of office

"everything they say or do is recorded. They cant wiggle out"

One name: Nixon.

I agree Danni that the repubs are just as crooked as the dems. I think people are more up in arms now bc Obama went out of his way to make people believe he was going to be different. Its no different then a relationship in the way that if your ex cheated on you and you make that clear to the person you newly start dating and they cheat on you its worse bc they saw had bad it sucked and hurt you yet they still did it.
Unfortunately that is the position Obama has put himself in

The baby boomers just want to add a few more years onto their lives and have someone else pick up the tab on the way out the door.

Does anyone here think it is a coincidence that 65 years after they were born this bill is being seriously debated, er.... proposed, er....., rammed up our ass!

This is what we call generational theft.

Right Zat--but simple conversations in hallways, cars, restaurants are being watched and listened to as well.
In the past most could get away with things bc it was a "he said, she said" situation.

"I'll bet when I get home tonight, the beer is gone and my 2 boys will tell me....
#268 | Posted by wisgod"

The two boys: www.officialpsds.com

KA...the challenge was NOT upheld by the US Court of Appeals, I did could find SC decision on the case...if there is none then the Senate and the House passed 2 different bills then the Senate bill signed by GB.

United States Court of Appeals, District of Columbia Circuit.
Argued February 9, 2007.
Decided May 29, 2007

Article I of the United States Constitution requires that before proposed legislation may "become[] a Law," U.S. CONST. art. I, 7, cl. 2, "(1) a bill containing its exact text [must be] approved by a majority of the Members of the House of Representatives; (2) the Senate [must] approve[] precisely the same text; and (3) that text [must be] signed into law by the President," Clinton v. City of New York, 524 U.S. 417, 448, 118 S.Ct. 2091, 141 L.Ed.2d 393 (1998). Public Citizen, a not-for-profit consumer advocacy organization, filed suit in District Court claiming that the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005, Pub.L. No. 109-171, 120 Stat. 4 (2006) ("DRA" or "Act"), is invalid because the bill that was presented to the President did not first pass both chambers of Congress in the exact same form. In particular, Public Citizen contends that the statute's enactment did not comport with the bicameral passage requirement of Article I, Section 7 of the Constitution, because the version of the legislation that was presented to the House contained a clerk's error with respect to one term, so the House and Senate voted on slightly different versions of the bill and the President signed the version passed by the Senate. Public Citizen asserts that it is irrelevant that the Speaker of the House and the President pro tempore of the Senate both signed a version of the proposed legislation identical to the version signed by the President. Nor does it matter, Public Citizen argues, that the congressional leaders' signatures attest that indistinguishable legislative text passed both houses.

2
The District Court held that Public Citizen's bicameralism claim is foreclosed by the Supreme Court's decision in Marshall Field & Co. v. Clark, 143 U.S. 649, 12 S.Ct. 495, 36 L.Ed. 294 (1892). See Public Citizen v. Clerk, U.S. Dist. Ct. for D.C., 451 F.Supp.2d 109 (D.D.C. 2006). In that case, the Court held that the judiciary must treat the attestations of "the two houses, through their presiding officers" as "conclusive evidence that [a bill] was passed by Congress." Marshall Field, 143 U.S. at 672-73, 12 S.Ct. 495. Under Marshall Field, a bill signed by the leaders of the House and Senatean attested "enrolled bill"establishes that Congress passed the text included therein "according to the forms of the Constitution," and it "should be deemed complete and unimpeachable." Id. at 672-73, 12 S.Ct. 495. Recognizing that Marshall Field's "enrolled bill rule" prohibited it from questioning the congressional pedigree of the bill signed by the Speaker and President pro tempore, the District Court dismissed Public Citizen's complaint and denied its motion for summary judgment. Public Citizen, 451 F.Supp.2d 109.

Public Citizen has appealed, arguing that while Marshall Field may prohibit the impeachment of an enrolled bill by reference to congressional journals, the decision does not bar a court from considering other evidence extrinsic to an enrolled bill. Public Citizen claims further that even if Marshall Field was not so restricted as originally decided, subsequent decisions of the Court have narrowed the enrolled bill rule. Appellee and CTIAthe Wireless Association ("CTIA"), appearing as amicus curiae, urge affirmance and contend that Public Citizen lacks standing to challenge the DRA.

We agree with the District Court that the enrolled bill rule of Marshall Field controls the disposition of this case. We therefore affirm the judgment of the District Court. We find it unnecessary to determine whether Public Citizen has standing to bring suit, because we conclude that the Marshall Field rule of dismissal "represents the sort of `threshold question' [that] . . . may be resolved before addressing jurisdiction." Tenet v. Doe, 544 U.S. 1, 6 n. 4, 125 S.Ct. 1230, 161 L.Ed.2d 82 (2005).

AS for the process there will be a vote...up or down vote on the Senate health care bill and the reconciliation language at the same time ...LEGAL and done many times before by both parties.

This is getting rediculus!

Nancy Pelosi is obsessed!!!

she has become Ballbreaker

Ballbreaker identifying the tallywacker

"
This is getting rediculus(sic)!
"

No child left behind takes it's toll.

If this occurs, it'll go to the SCOTUS. Furthermore, if you think this country borders on anger, lack of confidence in their government and implosion, you haven't seen anything---that along with the continual economic difficulties will create a situation not many people will want to see--sure, some partisans will think this is cute, but the backlash will not be pretty and once more the "uniter" will be seen for the liar he is.

If this alleged health care reform becomes law and turns out to be the economic disaster it's made out to be, the Dems will have a devil of a time trying to hot potato the blame elsewhere. They own it all.

If this occurs, it'll go to the SCOTUS.

Don't count on them overturning it.

There are dozens of instances of 'deeming' bills passed in just the last decade. Non starter. It is a vote. Pubbies would like to pretend this didn't already pass both houses in slightly different forms.

The right wing find one thing to whine about, like birth certificates, 'death panels', 'government takeovers' - proven ridiculous assertions - then they simply move onto the next ridiculous assertion. Hell, Bunning (KY-R) is now asserting some backbench nominees can't be voted on because of a CANADIAN tobacco law. The foolishness of the right wing has no end.

Another part of this bill---certain doctors will be economically penalized if they send too many of their patients to specialists----niiiiiicccce.

If this actually goes through, then conservatives should remember it forever. Huge rollbacks in entitlements, shutting down government programs, privatizing enormous swathes of what is now government, the selling off of millions of acres in federal lands--even shutting down this abortion of a healthcare bill later on--just imagine what is possible if you don't have to put it to a vote.

Pelosi is an evil genius, and has just given small-government conservatives a tool we didn't even know existed.

No child left behind takes it's toll.

#312 | Posted by Zatoichi

* * * *

"Its" toll, did you mean to say?

Nancy is a coward.

"Its" toll, did you mean to say?

Posted by rightisright

no, troll

i179.photobucket.com

I had half a decade ,.,.

Simply put...this country definitely does need some revisions in the balance of health care in this nation and a meaningful cost analysis and reform in the system.. there needs to be additional regulatory adjustments in the mechanics of the insurance industry..
But this 'economical trash bill' that is now up for passage undermines the American public and also illustrates what happens in this county when politics controls any decision that is supposed be positive for the American public and the economy..
this entire process over this bill has become a manical toy for the 'aberration of leadership' in the WH and Congress..it has lost all intelligence in the disguised meaning that has been pushed to the people in propoganda... the very idea of passing something like this 'just to pass a bill about health care' insults the very intelligence and existence of this great nation.. and, every soul that has 'tagged' along with the support of this idiocy only reflects the ignorance of leadership in this country at the moment..
does one buy a total junker to drive around just to say they have a vehicle, knowing that it will conk out in a short time...or does one prudently save a little money and do a little research to buy something that will last a reasonable time and be economical to own...
We are being led by the 'Pied Piper of arrogant dictatorship'..being led deep into a place where the real losses will outweigh any benefits that are supposed to come with this bill.. we have been totally lied to at every turn with this leadership and carried to a big black hole in the economy and just about everything else this guy has promised.. not because people dislike him or disagree with his party or politics, but because there is a total lack of 'intelligence in leadership'.. you Dems better have the real COURAGE to tell this guy a big NO..not just for your November trials, but to look back one day and to be able, with clear conscience, to say that you were not a part of this destructional path with which you are being pulled...
Wake up people...!!! To follow a fool is to be even a bigger fool..!!!

No hyphenation required, Zat. "It's" is a contraction for "it is".

P.S. Guys who like cats are pussies. Especially dead ones. Ask your doctor for a prescription for a set of balls, then come back.

. Ask your doctor for a prescription for a set of balls, then come back.

#323 | Posted by rightisright at 2010-03-16 11:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

RubeisRube is talking tough tonight. Or maybe it's the gin. Put down the bottle, dumbass.

"But I like it," she said, "because people don't have to vote on the Senate bill."

LOL--That is what Nancy thinks--that people won't know what this 'pretend vote' is all about.

Obama will be toast and the dems are out in November.

And the lawsuits will fly--in fact, some lawyers are writing them up right now!!

I remember all the talk about how Obama couldn't win the Dem nomination, then how he'd never win the Presidency.

My prediction: Dems will lose around the same 25 House seats Reagan lost during a recession in his first midterm , and Obama will be reelected by about the same percentage he did in 2008.

And if they vote on this and the deem passes--the Dems lose--it's political suicide.

Now what would be fascinating is that Pelosi won't have the DEEM votes to pass it.

That would be hilarious.

Send your emails..

The phone lines were jammed--they will be jammed tomorrow as well.

202-224-2121

Call and call often..

Many of the voters who came out to vote in the 'first black president' election will not show up again unless it will be the 'first woman' election.. the demographics will be much different in the next Prez vote..!!

Ya, there'll be more young voters and more Hispanics turning out that even 2008.

Don't even count the chicken eggs yet. They said the same things about Ronnie Raygun in 1982. The economy will rebound as it did then. Who you want to run? Palin? Mitt? Pawlenty? OK. "Bring it on".

The GOP are very 'deadicated' to defeating reform that would help their own constituents.

They had 6 sold years with no one stopping them to enact reform, but they were far more interested in furthering the profits of corporations and running up massive debt than helping the middle class. People don't have that short of memories.

November's elections will be about the economy. If it rebounds by then Dems won't lose very many seats. I suspect they'll do about the same as Ronnie Raygun did in 1982 in the middle of a recession.

My prediction: Dems will lose around the same 25 House seats Reagan lost during a recession in his first midterm , and Obama will be reelected by about the same percentage he did in 2008.

#326 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Now AU, here's the right prediction----if this thing happens, the dems will lose the house in November.

There's no factor determining what will or won't make a difference in House races but the economy.

Many of the voters who came out to vote in the 'first black president' election will not show up again unless it will be the 'first woman' election.. the demographics will be much different in the next Prez vote..!!

#328 | Posted by drsoul

Bingo, the "magnetism" of the Obummer will no longer capture the electorate.

The reconciliation option seemed like a legit course to take (even with repub whining); this seems like it will set a bad precedent, and you better believe repubs will abuse it later on. Next, they'll be setting the record for most giant entire bills passed via self-executing rule.

There's no factor determining what will or won't make a difference in House races but the economy.

#332 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

That's very true---once in awhile you do post a "truism". And tell me, AU, before the Nov. election, how many jobs a month do you think it takes to significantly drop the unemployment rate? Better google it.

LIVE OR DIE

Republicans used it 36 times between 2005-2006.

The precedent has already been set.

MATSOP

We'll see, won't we?

I certainly hope we get some of the 8+ million jobs lost during the last administration.

LIVE OR DIE

Republicans used it 36 times between 2005-2006.

The precedent has already been set.

#336 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010-03-16 11:51 PM

It's like it can't read...

The tactic -- known as a "self-executing rule" or a "deem and pass" -- has been commonly used, although never to pass legislation as momentous as the $875 billion health-care bill.

The HC bill has already passed both houses of Congress.

This is to 'reconcile' the differences between the two. The very definition of 'reconciliation'.

What was the problem with the reconciliation option, where special procedures were only required to iron out small financial technicalities? Why sneak massive legislation through a "sleight of hand" as the article terms it?

MATSOP

We'll see, won't we?

I certainly hope we get some of the 8+ million jobs lost during the last administration.

#337 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Yes, we will---another prediction---we'll show we have bottomed out in unemployment in the job's report of March for February---I have the feeling we may even see some positive growth---by the way, the answer to #335 is probably the addition of 200,000 jobs a month to see a significant drop in unemployment.

Here's a prediction--

They won't even have the votes for the deem and pass vote.

What was the problem with the reconciliation option, where special procedures were only required to iron out small financial technicalities?

The GOP were whining about that when it seemed the course that would be taken.

Again, these bills have already passed both houses of Congress.

BTW, why does Paul Ryan wear his hair like Ronnie Raygun?

I have the feeling we may even see some positive growth---by the way, the answer to #335 is probably the addition of 200,000 jobs a month

Let's hope so.

The GOP were whining about that when it seemed the course that would be taken.
#343 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010-03-17 12:00 AM
So what? They whine about everything. Guess you didn't have an answer.

Why sneak massive legislation through a "sleight of hand" as the article terms it?

#340 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

Because Pelosi doesn't have the votes.

And this sleight of hand won't work either.

They don't have the votes.

And trying to argue that they won't be voting for the bill if they just vote for the deem amendment is just too funny.

The American people are far too smart for that bs.

LIVE OR DIE

All I care about is that it passes. I had a family member die because of abuses by the insurance industry this bill will address and rectify.

As someone who buys his own health insurance I'm sick of annual increases that far surpass the rate of inflation. I welcome the same options to buy the best plan for me from the same choices Congress have.

I welcome the same options to buy the best plan for me from the same choices Congress have.

#347 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

The public will never have the same health benefits congress has. They won't vote for that.

BTW, deeming is just stating the Senate bill will be accepted as written. The 'reconciliation' will be voted on at the same time the Senate bill is 'deemed' to be approved.

(from what I've read about this)

The public will never have the same health benefits congress has. They won't vote for that.

#348 | Posted by mysterytoy

The public will be able to choose from EXACTLY the same insurance plans offered to Congress and all federal employees.

Obamacare will be far better than what mysterymeat offers his employees which is nothing. I guess if you get sick and work for mysterymeat you better hope you find a clinic otherwise you probably can't afford to see a doctor on the shit wages he pays.

The public will never have the same health benefits congress has. They won't vote for that.

#348 | Posted by mysterytoy

It's in the bill.

LIVE OR DIE

All I care about is that it passes. I had a family member die because of abuses by the insurance industry this bill will address and rectify.

As someone who buys his own health insurance I'm sick of annual increases that far surpass the rate of inflation. I welcome the same options to buy the best plan for me from the same choices Congress have.

#347 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010-03-17 12:08 AM

I'm only suggesting that their previous plans might be better. If congress starts deeming bills of this magnitude, don't you believe republicans will take it, run with it, and go overboard? Reconciliation, whilest still causing repubs to whine, at least was slated to be used in such a way that was the norm, i.e., to iron out small financial matters. Guess we'll see how this plays out.

LIVE OR DIE

As I understand it 'deeming' only involves accepting the Senate bill as written. There will be a vote at that moment on a separate bill that contains the changes for which the actual 'reconciliation' vote will take place in the Senate.

The public will be able to choose from EXACTLY the same insurance plans offered to Congress and all federal employees.

#351 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

link please?

Oh and I want the verbiage in the bill not some article from the Huffington Post that says "trust us".

The Senate bill has been online since last year when it was completed.

Why haven't you read it yet?

#356 | Posted by Dirk

I've done my homework. You haven't.

#359 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

That is "EXACTLY" what I thought!

Please prove to me how wrong I am, how fucking stupid I am and how brilliant you are by providing the verbiage that you claimed was in the bill.

If not I might start to imagine that you were lying through your fucking teeth.

Since you have read the bill in its entirety it should be no problem for you to lay it right out there for me to choke on.

If not just call me some nasty name so I can move on and we can stop pretending you have a fucking clue.

I don't have to 'prove you wrong'.

I've read the bill. You haven't. Get busy, bucko!

You mean you can't prove me wrong because I am quite sure you would if you could now wouldn't ya.... fucko!
Cheers Bitch!

I've done my reading. You haven't.

When did you stop beating your husband?

See how that works?

You mean you can't prove me wrong

You raise accusations, it's up to you to do the proving.

I've read the bill. You haven't.

Dirk's husband posted here? How cute!

JP2506 is a spammer

WHOIS information for aj2u.com :

[Querying whois.verisign-grs.com]
[whois.verisign-grs.com]

Whois Server Version 2.0

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.

Domain Name: AJ2U.COM
Registrar: XIN NET TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION
Whois Server: whois.paycenter.com.cn
Referral URL: http://www.xinnet.com
Name Server: NS2.XINNET.CN
Name Server: NS2.XINNETDNS.COM
Status: ok
Updated Date: 28-sep-2009
Creation Date: 25-oct-2008
Expiration Date: 25-oct-2010

BTW, why does Paul Ryan wear his hair like Ronnie Raygun?

#343 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Why do you buy yours online?

"The public will never have the same health benefits congress has. They won't vote for that."

It's in the bill.
#353 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010-03-17 12:23 AM

If it was in the Bill, the dems wouldn't have shot down the amendment requiring Congress drop their current coverage and sign up for the new program. Just because Obama and company say Americans will have the same choices to shop and benefit from larger pools doesn't mean they will have the same plan or coverage. Kind of like saying Congress drives luxury cars and the American people will now have the same opportunity to drive what they do.

Dennis Kucinich announced he will vote for the bill this morning. The passing of the bill is a virtual certainty now.

Whats odd is Dennis, just 2 weeks ago, said he couldnt vote YES for this bill as it stands. But I guess a ride on AFO will the big guy changed that. It makes one wonder what changed--was it something in the bill or did Obama change something for Dennis that personally benefits him?

correction
**with the not will the

"Dennis Kucinich announced he will vote for the bill this morning. The passing of the bill is a virtual certainty now.

Posted by danni"

Now a member of the AF1 BHO Mile High Club.

#372...

Another dem waffling. Exactly like Howard Dean. Neither has the guts to stick to their guns. They come out and honestly expose the flaws of this bill, and then all of the sudden those flaws are no longer a concern? I guess Rham threatened to expose himself if they didn't change their vote. Pelosi is meeting with Congressional females today and is probably using the same tactic. There's a visual one could do without.(shivers)

Let the whining begin....

Looks like Dennis and Convictions are like oil and water.

So pointing out hypocrisy is whining?
And please don't respond with the proverbial "Well the Rethugs/Bush did it" bc that argument has run its course

What hypocrisy?

As a congressman you fight for your personal beliefs on what you want to see in a Bill, then when a Bill comes out, you vote on what it is, not what you wish it were.

And you'll find that he got nothing in return for his vote.

But there is a thread on the back page now.

Let the whining begin....

#377 | Posted by Corky

Not at all.

Go ahead with this parlimentarian bullshit.

It is a HUGE indictment not only of the bill itself (if it's so great, why all of the chicanery) but is also a huge slap-in-the-face to the public. A vote for any "reconciliation package" is a clear vote for the senate bill. These dildos in the Democratic Party think the public is SO stupid that they won't see past the obvious. WRONG! What's worse is not only will the public recognize this shit for what it is, but they will be even more insulted (if that is possible) than if the Dems in the house at least showed a modicum of courage by voting for a bill that the public absolutely despises.

This is a stupid measure from stupid and desperate lawmakers.

Help, St. Patrick! Run these demoRat snakes outta office!

"The passing of the bill is a virtual certainty now." - Danni

Thats nice.

So I ask again--What changed?
2 weeks ago Dennis went on MSNBC & FOX saying there was no way he could vote for the bill as it stood. However, unless you have information none of us do, the bill hasnt changed. So why is it he doesnt like it and will not vote for it then rides in AFO like a big boy and all of a sudden its perfectly ok as is and can vote for it?
Regardless of what you say, Obama said/did something to Dennis that benefits him to get him to change his obvious "SET IN STONE CONVICTIONS"

We were talking about Dennis K, Jeffy.

No one will remember how many pages it was or what procedure was used to pass it when THIS YEAR children who have pre-existing conditions are covered and small businesses get breaks on their health care costs.

Which Repubes will run to dismantle for the fall?

Give back your tax breaks, small business, and those children should not be covered?

Good luck with that.

-What changed?

When you discover the wonders of government by advocacy, do get back to us.

You have to know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em.

"You have to know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em."

Kucinich just folded aces before seeing a flop.

Horseshit. He had nothing in is hand, more's the pity.

So his convictions are so fragile that a simple ride on AFO will change his mind on such a huge bill?
The wonders of Obama's gov is "Please vote for this so all those mean people who use to hang on my
n@ts stop saying mean stuff! I'll be your best friend?!?
"Oh, not good enough? How about a nice position in my cabinet or a hefty kickback?"
But please by all means set a precedent for things that way when the Repubs are in power they can do the same thing
And when they do, you wont say a word, right??

#385 | Posted by Corky

Uh huh.

If it is Utopia, as you clearly suggest, why the extreme difficulty in passing it? Why is the public SO against it? Why can't your beloved Dems peel off a single GOP vote? Why, with such massive majorities AND the employment of every scum-bag deal under the sun can't the Dems seem to pass this alone - this was supposed to be done before last August. Why even talk about this 'Slaughter' bullshit? What are the Dems afraid of? Why all of the criminal bribes in the senate bill (which WILL become law) in the first place? Why was any of that even necessary?

Jesus.

Words can't even describe how corrupt, disgusting and criminal the liberals have become over this.

Dennis = Monica Impeach!

-If it is Utopia, as you clearly suggest

How ingenious of you, my dear Polemeister.

You know we've never described it that way.

The public is divided on the Bill, but to say the opposition is for the same reasons is laughable.

Nearly half the opposition is because people feel IT DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH.

I just dont understand why all the Dems are hanging their careers and reputations on Obama.
He's managed to accomplish in 1 yr what it took Bush 5 yrs to do which is become a plague that his base runs from
But he does have such an impressive resume:
Able to read well from teleprompter
Community Organizer

Wow, im so glad we have such high standards for the position of Leader of the free world

How disingenuous .... lol

question just in..

so we take in taxes for 4 years....how long does it take before ALL that money is gone in the form of IOU"S ala the social security THEFT started by lbj and continued by every pres since..

maybe today at 5 est when obama is on fox bret baier will ask him that since this is the first time that barry might actually get a hard question or two.,

Im not trying to be rude to Corky, but if you say this is ok then really have no right to complain when the Repubs do it in 4/8 yrs
I just wish someone would come in and stop this cycle bc if you do it you cant say anything when someone else does the same thing and thus the corruption continues
Meanwhile, why people like you and me are discussing crap like this both parties are laughing at us while they get rich

it would cost the Democratic Party the south for fifty years, it did. He and the Democrats who voted for that bill (along with Republicans

you REALLY need to get a history book out and read up..
the election of 94 ended a FOURTY year democrat majority........

"this is a rule...not a bill. ...dont even have the courage to put the bill on the floor."

steny hoyer

jume 2003

he was, of course..against this before he was for it...

-when the Repubs do it

Since they've already used it many times, what is your supposed point, then?

Yeah, I'm pissed off this morning - if you're not, then you don't love this country.

Actually, I'm not pissed off because I'm not a delusional fuckwit like you.

nOW tell me the left ISNT THE CULTURE OF DEATH

I see afkababble still hasn't told the library that they need to replace the keyboard he's using. Maybe he's afraid they'll DNA test the semen causing the keys to stick.

First, Nancy and Obama screamed to the heavens that if you elect them they will clean up Washington. Well, its the same if not worse
But my overall point is if you think what they are doing to pass this bill is ok, then I accept that. Thats your choice and I can live with it--its just gonna seem a little "disingenuous" if you go back to condemning the Repubs in 4/8 yrs

This "Well they did it to!" crap is getting old with both sides--its like a bunch of 1st graders up there

I just wish that people would see the "divide & conquer" that is going on in the country. Thats exactly what everyone in Washington is doing

CORKY

define MANY times...only cases I can come up with are dems in 1933
dems in the 90's to give blowjob some line item veto and this case in 03 when gop did it and hoyer blew a gasket over it..

and can we all come together here and say...that it should NEVER be done unless its to name a postoffice or shit like that....

I am not pissed. I will calmly let this affect my vote in November. There gets to be a point where you find yourself pissing into the wind: this bill is going to come and there is nothing that can be done to stop it short of challenging it in the Supreme Court after it passes. I will not be voting for any Democrat in November. I don't think any Republican will get my vote except Crist. Third party time in America!

and TODAY ON BECK

video of schumer on senate floor talking about cirbumventing a little thing called
the CONNSTITUTION.....

fox 5 est

GET OUT YOUR RED PENCILS and correct my typos now instead of facing the issue

cirCumventing

coNstitution

I see afkababble still hasn't told the library that they need to replace the keyboard he's using. Maybe he's afraid they'll DNA test the semen causing the keys to stick.

#400 | Posted by ZombieHunter

OH NO
someone has discovered the 'secret' or should I say reason of my writing style...

One only has to remember that anyone in the WH or Congress only cares about the people, the economy and the state of the nation when it comes to election time...past that point, until the next election, there is no REAL focus or concern about the consequences of anything they do to the country or people.. they have created their own little feifdom and POWER becomes rule.. you may find 5% that actually care about their electorate..again, until election time..
just look back...Oboner has carried through on little, if nothing, that he campaigned on.. this health care issue is not about your premiums, better health for you or anything close to it...only about 'saving face' on his POWER.. he could care less about anyone else.. he and the Congress have their benefits sewn up..so screw you..!!! this bill is nothing but tragic for the economy down the road... just look at the people who buy into him and support him and you get the 'smell' loud and clear..
this entire episode has lost it's real course and it will certainly come back to bite all who support it in ways most cannot imagine...!!!

-define MANY times

20 times, mostly by Republicans.

So K won't be voting for them either.

Mickey Mouse gets lots of votes this way....

sorry old man but in this case I may need a link. I am sure thats not something that you will have any trouble getting what with your amazing techonlogical powers..

and of course my comment will be that it was nothing of this size
HOWEVER..again...let me say...STOP THIS ALL OF THE TIME..not just now...

and the other thing..for months the dems have been screaming for an up and down vote in the senate AND YET>..NOW that up and down vote doesnt EXACTLY seem like the thing they are looking for.

I'm going to start calling this the "Chemotherapy Bill" after it passes. It's going to cure the Cancer in Washington known as the Democratic Majority.

AND mister wisgod I am glad you are here...

last night on greta and also tonight.

I am telling you boys this...
SOMEday there will be a PRESIDENT named paul ryan..
the man is downright presidential/
more presidential than ANYONE in the gop and even more than the fuckin liar who lives there now..

DAMN Impressive..and he's not even from TExas....

but WISCONSIN..

well maybe SOMETHING good can come from there besides cheese.....:)

A good 'cheesehead' would be a lot better than the 'molded' one we have now...!!

Im serious
I may have already seen enough and the dems better start thinking about aiming thier "destruction team' his way and start preparing to assisinate his chraracter, embarrass his family.,,.ATTACK HIS CHildren and all of the other things they shamelessly do when threatened.

"I don't think any Republican will get my vote except Crist."

You may or may not get an opportunity to vote for him as a Republican.

"SOMEday there will be a PRESIDENT named paul ryan.."

Not if he opens his mouth and tells them what he wants to do with SS, Medicare, etc.

heres hopin

gov rubio sounds good...Im sure you AGREE dont you??> LOL

AND for all you liberal dupes who keep the brainwash alive about gop not having ideas

www.healthcaucas.com

what?
like SAVE THEM....

and newt weighed in on this issue

DEMS>..vote on bills they dont read

and now PASS bills they dont vote on

funny...
okay not so funny...

Not if he opens his mouth and tells them what he wants to do with SS, Medicare, etc.

#415 | Posted by danni

I'd sure like to know what Barack Carter plans to do with S.S. Maybe he'll let us know when he's done campaigning.

barak carterFUNNY stuff
I was thinking along the lines of lyndon hussein carter....

"I'd sure like to know what Barack Carter plans to do with S.S."

I believe he has already said we need to raise the level of income subject to SS tax.

Actually, I'm not pissed off because I'm not a delusional fuckwit like you.

#399 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2010-03-17 11:12 AM | Reply | Flag:
What kind of delusional fuckwit are you then? One like Nancy Pelosi and Hussein?

I believe he has already said we need to raise the level of income subject to SS tax.

It should be raised and raising it could be enough to make some of the other things being talked about unneeded.

I believe he has already said we need to raise the level of income subject to SS tax.

#422 | Posted by danni

Then it would be nice if President Single Task would learn how to Multi Task and get going.

well again...it doesnt matter to me since I wont ever get it UNLESS this asshole decides that even I should have to pay that tax...and you never know with these social democracy guys..

first step always seems to be to raise the age you can draw it. I wouldnt imagine that anyone dem or gop wants to touch that right now.

"NOBODY wants to vote on the senate bill" nancy pelosi
march 16,2010

www.redstate.com

Fear not. All this horseahit is going to be paid for by those that make over $250K/year. Barack promised!

horseshit

"Then it would be nice if President Single Task would learn how to Multi Task and get going."

It's Congress that needs to do it and with the Republicans filibustering just about everything, slowing everything down as much as they can, etc. it seems to me that you ought to tell them to get out of the way.

"She said just yesterday that the public option is "off the table". This thread is bullshit hyperbole.
#2 | Posted by redlightrobot "

There is not a public option in the Senate bill. It all involves reform of the private industry.

It's Congress that needs to do it and with the Republicans filibustering just about everything, slowing everything down as much as they can, etc. it seems to me that you ought to tell them to get out of the way.

#430 | Posted by danni

Do you want them to write the bill to fillibuster too?

It is a total reflection of leadership from the WH that makes the real difference as to how and when things get passed, regardless of congressional mix.. most intelligent people just have a real hard time putting ANY confidence in Oboner...

DANNI

if the gop wasnt LOCKED out it might be different

damn baby...watch a little cspan sometime..

and dont forget just after the big health care summit..both of them actually.
what did dems do
BACK BEHIND CLOSED DOORS,...no gop allowed.

and WHEN gop gets it back and they do that, I will join you in condemning them...

AND LAST ONE.

on cnn.
even david gergin said that dems are fuckin up,..
well my words of course...but he was much more forcefull about it than his usual pussfied way...

LUNCH!!!!

"Do you want them to write the bill to fillibuster too?"

No, you're right on that, the Dems need to get busy on it. Hopefully after healthcare is passed more will get done but I expect when they do make a proposal it will be filibustered.

www.rasmussenreports.com

Republican candidates have now stretched their lead over Democrats to 10 points in the Generic Congressional Ballot, their biggest lead ever in nearly three years of weekly tracking.

* * *

There is not a public option in the Senate bill. It all involves reform of the private industry.

#431 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce

There is a tiny little regulatory deal 0bama put in where they can determine pricing for insurance companies to put them out of business creating a defacto "public option"

"Republican candidates have now stretched their lead over Democrats to 10 points in the Generic Congressional Ballot, their biggest lead ever in nearly three years of weekly tracking."

That's nice, too bad it is still a while before the election.


"Republican candidates have now stretched their lead over Democrats to 10 points in the Generic Congressional Ballot, their biggest lead ever in nearly three years of weekly tracking."

That's nice, too bad it is still a while before the election.

#439 | Posted by danni

So because of the Dem impotence, we have to wait for reform and because of that, the economy stagnates!

Great!

Yeah, too bad.

Gallup 3/8 - 3/15 RV 44 47 Democrats +3
Rasmussen Reports 3/8 - 3/14 3500 LV 45 35 Republicans +10
Ipsos/McClatchy 2/26 - 2/28 1076 A 40 50 Democrats +10
McLaughlin & Associates (R) 2/24 - 2/25 1000 LV 42 35 Republicans +7
Democracy Corps (D) 2/20 - 2/24 851 LV 49 46 Republicans +3
Newsweek 2/17 - 2/18 908 RV 43 45 Democrats +2

LUNCH!!!!

#435 | Posted by afkabl2

Behind Barbara Bush Library

LOL (kidding)

"So because of the Dem impotence, we have to wait for reform and because of that, the economy stagnates!"

Where have you been, the economy is recovering according to most of the statistics and according to most economists. What exactly do you think Congress can do about the economy anyway?

In the Senate, courtesy of the Office of the Majority Leader:

The Senate will convene at 9:30am and will immediately resume consideration of the House Message on HR2847, HIRE Act.

Motion to concur in the House amendments to the Senate amendment to the House amendment to the Senate amendment to HR2847, the legislative vehicle for the HIRE Act. (This vote is essentially on passage of the bill.)
=========

Dems in Senate "deems and passes" the HIRE Act with out vote on bill ...oh when will it stop?

What do the Senate Repubs have to say about such a dastardly/unconstitutional deed?

.................Still waiting? ...don't its an accepted procedure/rule unless you do not like the bill or think it will hurt you politically.

The GOP used 'deeming' 36 times between 2005-2006

Get over it.

Just watched Obama fail miserably on Fox news.

As well as being a blatant liar his most often used tactic is lying by omission.

The most divisive president since the civil war.

Just watched Obama fail miserably on Fox news.

He is a liars liar and huge numbers of people see this clearly. His most often used tactic is lying by omission.

The most divisive president since the civil war.

The GOP used 'deeming' 36 times between 2005-2006

Get over it.

#446 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010-03-17 06:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wrong is wrong.

What is it about that some people just don't seem to comprehend?

Wrong is wrong.

What is it about that some people just don't seem to comprehend?

#449 | Posted by porkchop

OK, Birther ...

A leagal rule used since 1933... how is that wrong?

legal

MMIKE

The GOP have two sets of rules:

One when they're IN power, and another when they're OUT of power.

The end always justifies the means does it not. But a price will be paid for utilizing those means - in November.

guys..., when you wake up with your share of the national debt being more then you, your children, and your grandchildren could ever pay off in your lifetimes.....................
.., would you then agree that we deserve more then 72 hours to review over 2000 pages of political pay-offs, graft, unconstitutional actions by elected officials.........(nuff said) and finally...........

they were elected to represent us....., not their family trust.......! No matter what happens to you and me..., they will leave washington like any other carpetbagger; stuffed full of cash, real estate, estate gifts, and full benefits at our expense.

and you are happy to work your ass off for ANY of them?

e-mail you reps......to vote NO !

OK, Birther ...

#450 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010-03-17 07:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh, I see. You don't like principled people so they must be a birther, racist, bigot etc.

I get it. You're smart!

Whats the matter ya need a little more domination in your life do ya? Well you just let me know anytime peaches. Cheers!

#444 | Posted by Dirk at 2010-03-17 05:23 PM | Reply | Flag: GHEY

I'm at least smart enough to know Birthers are out of their minds. Your own comments indicate you're a 'Birther' believer (in the Arizona thread).

The link to FactCheck I provided has pictures of Obama's birth certificate. End of story

This tax bill will pass---it's masquerading as reform---will add further burden to small business which is already in the basement.


I'm at least smart enough to know Birthers are out of their minds. Your own comments indicate you're a 'Birther' believer (in the Arizona thread).

The link to FactCheck I provided has pictures of Obama's birth certificate. End of story

#458 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010-03-17 07:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're right, you are smart.

I've provided a picture of the martian I caught not very long ago.

enjoy.

www.fotosearch.com

A picture of a 'Martian'? OK, Birther

A picture of a 'Martian'? OK, Birther

#461 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010-03-17 08:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

According to you pictures are proof. See your 458.

I caught this big foot messing with my fish.

End of story.

www.smh.com.au

nike jordan
nike jordan shoes

#463 | Posted by jp2506

Does reposting this mean you'll be running along?

Yeah, I'm pissed off this morning - if you're not, then you don't love this country. It is absolute BS what some power brokers are doing to pass this obamination of a bill through - HOPE AND CHANGE.

Say all you want libtards - you got it without vasoline. How does it feel? Idiots. And yes, obammy is incompetent. Unfit for leadership - still out on the campaign trail. Pitiful

#62 | Posted by ELCIDCE90

Fuck you. I love this country and if you don't like it .. leave. Don't let the door hit ya' where the good lord split ya'.


"So because of the Dem impotence, we have to wait for reform and because of that, the economy stagnates!"

Where have you been, the economy is recovering according to most of the statistics and according to most economists. What exactly do you think Congress can do about the economy anyway?

#443 | Posted by danni

Danni,

I run a business servicing computers. Businesses are not signing new long-term contracts to service computers because they are waiting to see what happens in Congress. This is what I see in my little sphere of influence.

People are still being layed off... The person renting my house just got laid off after 12 years of service.

I'm getting pissed off now, Danni!

If someone tells me that Bush did this, I will slapped them into Nov 2010 and if they still vote Democrat, it's over for 'em!

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