Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, March 16, 2010

A plan by the Federal Communications Commission sets a goal of 100 million homes having affordable access to broadband networks that allow them to download data from the Internet at speeds of at least 100 megabits per second -- 20 times or faster than most people get today.

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This is good considering we are falling behind other developed nations. Even some third world nations have faster internet services.

Cool...a standard speed? I like it. I am paying $45 for 6Mbps.

Cool...a standard speed? I like it. I am paying $45 for 6Mbps.

#2 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-03-15 03:52 PM

Naked DSL from ATT?

I Just moved to a new apt and that is my only choice.

"we are falling behind other developed nations."

Like Eastern Slovakia.

The bastards are looking for an excuse to regulate the internet like they regulate the airwaves.

All it takes is setting up towers. Of course, people will complain about transmission waves causing cancer or something, but hey if you got free high-speed internet who cares if you kid has 12 toes.

"The bastards are looking for an excuse to regulate the internet like they regulate the airwaves.

#5 | Posted by Ray "

Just about every advanced country has a broadband policy and is leaving the U.S. in the dust, and the ideologue Ray wants to wait for the incompetent private sector.

Just about every advanced country has a broadband policy and is leaving the U.S. in the dust, and the ideologue Ray wants to wait for the incompetent private sector.
#7 | Posted by nullifidian

The internet has had phenominal growth, all financed by the private sector, dummy. Expanding broadband has been an ongoing process since telephone days.
This another example of corporations using taxpayers to pay its bills, but you're too too much of a sheep to see it. This is the kind of foothold censors are hungry for. Maybe even shutting down your website some day.

"The bastards are looking for an excuse to regulate the internet like they regulate the airwaves."

When they invented the internet they were looking for an excuse to regulate something but they had to invent something to regulate.

#8 | Posted by Ray at 2010-03-15 04:24 PM | Reply | Flag

You're full of it, Ray. The private sector has been dragging its feet on high speed broadband because they want to blackmail the country into giving it the same free monopoly the government gave to broadcasters.

When they invented the internet they were looking for an excuse to regulate something but they had to invent something to regulate.
#9 | Posted by danni

The invented the internet for war time purposes. When the private sector made it succesful to the general public, that's when they wanted to get control of it.

Danni, you have this naive idea of a benevolent government.

You're full of it, Ray. The private sector has been dragging its feet on high speed broadband because they want to blackmail the country into giving it the same free monopoly the government gave to broadcasters.
#10 | Posted by nullifidian

Well, now it looks like they're going to get it. Fools like you complain about corporations all the time, then when they dangle some bait in front of you, you bite.

They want to take 500 MHz of spectrum away from Television Broadcasters.

Sounds good at first, but most people get their breaking news from television, because it's an established infrastructure.

I find it funny that a single 4 letter word on television, will result in thousands of dollars in fines, yet they want to put smart mobile devices into everyone's hands, where they will have the ability to get hardcore porn, with no trouble. And doing it with the same airwaves.

#12 | Posted by Ray at 2010-03-15 04:42 PM | Reply | Flag: knowledge of history comparable to knowledge of physiology

The invention of ARPANET occurred in the seventies and allowed scientists to communicate with each other. I had an ARPANET account as a graduate student.

The inventor of the Mosaic Browser, Marc Andreesen, credits Al Gore with making his work possible. He received a federal grant through Gore's High Performance Computing Act. The University of Pennsylvania's Dave Ferber says that without Gore the Internet "would not be where it is today."

The World Wide Web was invented by Tim Berners Lee at CERN.

Sorry Ray, all government money.
You are totally full of shit.

Whether it's broadband or healthcare, rightwing ideologues like Ray will ignore the evidence and continue to advocate policies that leave the U.S. further and further behind the rest of the civilized world and increasingly unable to compete.

Sorry Ray, all government money.
You are totally full of shit.
#14 | Posted by Zatoichi

That wasn't my argument, asshole. Read #11 again.

Whether it's broadband or healthcare, rightwing ideologues like Ray will ignore the evidence and continue to advocate policies that leave the U.S. further and further behind the rest of the civilized world and increasingly unable to compete.
#15 | Posted by nullifidian

The evidence is that taxes and regulations drove out business. The ones who remain own the regulators and the politicans. Government wants rights of censorship and the corporations want government financing for an expanded internet. You never learn.

Sounds good at first, but most people get their breaking news from television, because it's an established infrastructure.

-Roy

Really? Nobody I know that is under 35 watches news on tv primarily.

"The evidence is that taxes and regulations drove out business. "

The evidence is that countries that don't share your ideological laissez-fantasy views are kicking our ass. They subsidize broadband, use protective tariffs, limit foreign investment, etc. They must love you suckers that advocate a U.S. national policy of bending over.

"Nobody I know that is under 35 watches news on tv primarily."

Probably no one under 60. That's archaic.

The computer has replaced TV as "mother, father, lover, sitter, teacher, preacher, and friend."

The evidence is that countries that don't share your ideological laissez-fantasy views are kicking our ass. They subsidize broadband, use protective tariffs, limit foreign investment, etc. They must love you suckers that advocate a U.S. national policy of bending over.
#19 | Posted by nullifidian

You obviously aren't paying attention to the financial troubles looming here and in Europe. You just go right ahead and dream government knows best.

Just about every advanced country has a broadband policy and is leaving the U.S. in the dust, and the ideologue Ray wants to wait for the incompetent private sector.
#7 | Posted by nullifidian

Japan's broadband took off in 2003 because of the deregulation of the colocation, and bundling regulations.
www.jiad.org

Its prices are inline with my 3G (alone) and ATT UVerse internet only.

See if you can pick up an SJMerc, there is a graph in it giving the reasons people don't have it. 40% said they didn't need it. Only 27% thought it cost too much.

What is not in your post is the understanding that it costs more to deliver Internet to each household, due to distance requirements, than it does in the other advanced nations. But you know this, "End of Suburbia".....

It is an interesting problem, with the free market you will get the latest and greatest techonologies. With a government policy, you will get something like the SecretService computer system, but everyone will have it.

Finally nulli, if the government controls and regulates the Internet, as you propose. You will get piracy regulations, like France had proposed.
www.earthtimes.org

Be careful what you wish for.....

"Finally nulli, if the government controls and regulates the Internet, as you propose. "

I'm in favor of net neutrality. Aren't you?

I'm in favor of net neutrality. Aren't you?
#24 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Since when are the feds neutral on anything? You can be sure what they call "neutral" will have some Orwellian meaning.

do NOT forget..
this means it will be controlled by the feds..they give, they take away and regulate...
but IM sure many of you dupes dont give a fuck about that...and tell me that they already regulate and if THATS true then I should get a visit tomorrow when I call barak obama a fuckn liar.

advocate policies that leave the U.S. further and further behind the rest of the civilized world and increasingly unable to compete.

Protectionism is the antithesis to competition.

Your premise is horribly flawed.

The bastards are looking for an excuse to regulate the internet like they regulate the airwaves.

#5 | Posted by Ray at 2010-03-15 03:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why must you always see the reality?

Isn't it better to think like this? .........

"Cool...a standard speed? I like it. I am paying $45 for 6Mbps.

#2 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-03-15 03:52 PM "

Think FREE, Ray. Get with the program.

if you got free high-speed internet who cares if you kid has 12 toes.

#6 | Posted by taxman at 2010-03-15 04:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

The swimming coach will want to talk with him

Do these fuckers get anything right?

"Texas ranks as one of the nation's least-connected states, with only three out of five Texans with Internet access at home, according to numbers released Wednesday by the U.S. Census Bureau.

Texas ranks just above Oklahoma, New Mexico, Arkansas, South Carolina, Alabama and Mississippi. "

bayareahouston.blogspot.com

Ray thinks govt involvement in anything is bad. He would prefer the police to be wackenhut employees and the fire service to be pvt too. All fee for service based of course. Forget to pay wackenhut one month and the police won't come during a robbery. ambulance service would be pvt too. If you can't pay you better be able to find a ride or you die. Ray ever thought of moving to Africa?

I have posted this article here at least 3 or 4 times.

2 months in Iraq during the 2003-2006 time period and work could have already been under way...that means people wouldn't have been without jobs for long due to the housing crash.

Instead, government dragged it's feet. Typical.

arstechnica.com

The evidence is that countries that don't share your ideological laissez-fantasy views are kicking our ass. They subsidize broadband, use protective tariffs, limit foreign investment, etc. They must love you suckers that advocate a U.S. national policy of bending over.

They also have high percentages of their populations based in and around their major cities. Here, in the United States, people in and around major cities can get broadband no problem. I've got it in this little hobunk town I grew up in, but the phone co-op that I am a member of uses the fees and dues we members pay in to run fiber across its entire network.

Outside of their coverage area, you can forget it. That's not because there aren't people there, but more because the gains of extending their service area are less than than the costs of doing so.

Really? Nobody I know that is under 35 watches news on tv primarily.

#18 | Posted by richardspirit at 2010-03-15 05:02 PM


So on 9/11, you went running to the newspaper to get your coverage?

When Katrina was moving toward shore, you're saying people were reading about it.

And I'm sure when the wild fires threatened the Los Angeles area, most people were looking to blogs, to see the areas getting burned.

When BREAKING news is happening, most people turn to the television to see what is happening.

Cnn has a story about some idiot living in OK who has a dial up connection...must be a slow day...as if having dial up is akin to no water or electricity...

After the FCC gave $231 billion in rate increases to AT&T and Verizon, justified as paying for fiber optics upgrades, AT&T has hooked up 2 million users. I wonder where all that money went? Some CEOs private Island I suppose.

The only reason that many places have crappy internet is because their isn't any competition. Local governments grant local monopolies to cable providers.

Last time I checked Verizon is already rolling out these speeds across the country WITHOUT government intervention. In fact, it is (local) government intervention that is preventing them from doing it in many places.

So on 9/11, you went running to the newspaper to get your coverage?

When Katrina was moving toward shore, you're saying people were reading about it.

And I'm sure when the wild fires threatened the Los Angeles area, most people were looking to blogs, to see the areas getting burned.

When BREAKING news is happening, most people turn to the television to see what is happening.

#33 | Posted by Roy_Batty

The answer to all of those is the Internet. And some blogs yes and now even twitter is sometimes used by people in the middle of the news.

In the fight against poverty and ignorance the internet is a silver bullet.

Spud applauds the FCC's attempts to bring more high speed intrawebs goodness to more people here.

In terms of the argument of whether the internet will ever replace either traditional print media or television Spud is kinda bemused.

There are some things a newspaper does that the internet can't and the same is true with television.

Books, magazines, televised news and blogs all play a part in informing us of the world around us.

It's not an either/or proposition.

Be Well.

I think it would be really nice, but I'm also not stupid enough to believe that a bunch of corporate assholes aren't trying to find a way to fuck with it.

Interesting that prior to the Ronald Reagan led breakup of the Bell System, which is ancient history for many, the USA actually led the world in communications technology, manufacturing ability and R&D with their Bell Labs. Since then we've gone from a role of communications leadership to being a follower that has a position of about 10th place playing 2nd fiddle.

I suspect subterfuge, the FCC would love to tell you what you can and can't do/see online.

Like this little diddy about the FCC.

www.youtube.com

- M

We should let cartoon shows set national policy.

Trust me, Corporate America will turn this into a way to charge $100 a month for Internet, the same way they turned free television into a $100/month cable bill.

Yeah, you can still get free TV, but damn little of it, and of a quality that would insult the intelligence of a flatworm.

The telcos will find a way to turn this into more yachts and country-club memberships and trophy wife boob jobs, too, by making the choice 100Mbps high-speed or AOL dial-up, nothing in between.

Spud,

Please tell me what television or newspaper can do that internet can't? In the internet you have both the printed and the videos plus with smart phone technology and e-readers you can now take the internet anywhere.

Most of your posts are pretty intelligent but I have to question whether you really thought this one out.

Whether it's broadband or healthcare, rightwing ideologues like Ray will ignore the evidence and continue to advocate policies that leave the U.S. further and further behind the rest of the civilized world and increasingly unable to compete.

#15 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN AT 2010-03-15 04:51 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

I am quite sure it is not the job of the government to provide high speed Internet or cable tv to everyone onthe country. The gov is tapped out.

Spud,

Please tell me what television or newspaper can do that internet can't? In the internet you have both the printed and the videos plus with smart phone technology and e-readers you can now take the internet anywhere.

Most of your posts are pretty intelligent but I have to question whether you really thought this one out.

#44 | Posted by richardspirit at 2010-03-16 12:08 PM


Television, can provide HD of 720 or 1080p at 19.3927 Mbits/s in realtime, with closed captioning for the hearing impaired, and 5.1 surround sound.

Roy,

I have my computer hooked up to my flat screen HD tv with 5.1 surround sound. Plus, most computers have options for the disable which includes CC and for those that don't there is still the printed versions...

...and often the news gets to the internet faster then it is broadcast on tv or at the same time.

Please tell me what television or newspaper can do that internet can't? In the internet you have both the printed and the videos plus with smart phone technology and e-readers you can now take the internet anywhere.

Knew someone was gonna call Spud on that one.

Of course the internet can provide video and the printed word just as TV and newspapers do.

At the moment, however, there is no realistic monetary model/mechanism to enable them to do this as well and still remain financially viable. It's coming, of course, but that day isn't here yet.

That aside, there is also the question of the technological have and have-nots on this planet, a gap which seems to be increasing rather than diminishing.

One doesn't have to be a multimillion dollar corporation in order to start up a small newspaper or print pamphlets on issues that concern one.

A local newspaper's voice may well be drowned out in the vastness of the intrawebs.

There is also something comforting about the physicality of a newspaper. The fact that you can pass it on for free to someone who doesn't have it is also not reproducible with the net.

Also it's hard to bring yer PC into the bathroom with you fer a morning read although, granted, the advent of the iPhone and such is making that much easier.

Television is still the electronic campfire around which the family unit gathers and shares experiences while the intrawebs is more of a solo activity.

We are, after all, social animals.

While, there is no doubt that eventually TV will be broadcast simulataneously on the net as a matter of course Spud still feels that the one medium will not supplant the other but support each other.

Books will never die despite the advent of the Kindle et al.

Either will magazines.

New media are an addition to not a replacement for.

Hope that clarified Spud's position somewot.

Be Well.

Republican approach to government/economics:

Government = evil

Government of/by/for the people = evil ('cause people are evil)

Government of/by/for multinational corporations = good (cause corporations aren't people, therefore not evil, even though they are "persons")

Ownership = valuable = earned
Work = commodity = expendable

I must have missed the explanation of how ownership creates wealth.

Spud,

Thank you that clarifies though I still respectfully disagree.

Here are few points:

"One doesn't have to be a multimillion dollar corporation in order to start up a small newspaper or print pamphlets on issues that concern one."

You don't need a fortune to start a website and create links, write articles or pull stuff from the AP wire which is now on the internet.

"A local newspaper's voice may well be drowned out in the vastness of the intrawebs."

I get my local news from local channels and paper directly on my yahoo/igoogle homepage

"There is also something comforting about the physicality of a newspaper. The fact that you can pass it on for free to someone who doesn't have it is also not reproducible with the net. "

Links are free to share.

"Television is still the electronic campfire around which the family unit gathers and shares experiences while the intrawebs is more of a solo activity"

Not in my family we fire up the computer to watch tv, movies or news. The computer has been the centerpiece of my family for about 6years now.

"Books will never die despite the advent of the Kindle et al.

Either will magazines."

Again, I think you are underestimating the laziness and cheapness of people. Also, realistically why have a shelves full of books when you can contain them all in single small device.

Links are free to share.

Only to those who can afford internet access.

Also, realistically why have a shelves full of books when you can contain them all in single small device.

Because not everyone can afford an e-reader but everyone can afford to access a public library.

It's a wired world and becoming more so all the time but not everyone is plugged in due to increasingly grim financial realities.

The computer has been the centerpiece of my family for about 6years now.

And there are some folks who don't have the necessary tech savvy to be able to do so or the monetary means.

Spud appreciates your position and in the main agrees with it but we are a long way from saying that everyone has the resources or the wherewithal to be a member of the brave new e-world.

Be Well.

Spud,

I always like debating with you even if we don't agree and I conceded that access is not wide spread enough however with the push to expand broadband it won't be long.

*concede

Roy,

I have my computer hooked up to my flat screen HD tv with 5.1 surround sound. Plus, most computers have options for the disable which includes CC and for those that don't there is still the printed versions...

...and often the news gets to the internet faster then it is broadcast on tv or at the same time.

#47 | Posted by richardspirit at 2010-03-16 12:22 PM


And there's no way in hell, you can download HD video and 5.1 surround in realtime with a bit rate even approaching 19.4 Mbit/s.

A T1 can only do 1.544 Mbits/s.

Roy,

The devil is the details however from my perspective the difference being really insignificant considering i can buffer a portion at a time so that I don't have to download the whole thing before I can start watching and the fact that I can find a printed version makes the difference meaningless.

Roy,

The devil is the details however from my perspective the difference being really insignificant considering i can buffer a portion at a time so that I don't have to download the whole thing before I can start watching and the fact that I can find a printed version makes the difference meaningless.

#55 | Posted by richardspirit at 2010-03-16 01:35 PM


Fine, you're willing to wait for your video to download.

Most people like to watch a breaking news story as it happens.

And as far as entertainment goes, how long does it take you to download the Basketball/football/baseball game that is being played?

Roy,

since you missed it in my post i will repeat...

i can buffer a portion at a time so that I don't have to download the whole thing before I can start watching

As far as sports I don't watch sports so I couldn't tell you but ESPN broadcasts some events live i think so you would have to check that.

I guess that means high speed internet will be a RIGHT next year.

As long as the Internet is run by corporate personifications there will never be equality for the users. It is like cars, if everybody had a right to a free Chevy, the other car companies would go out of business overnight. What the problem is in America is that the infrastructure is not being properly regulated. The foreign countries that have better service all have government controlled fiber optic lines that do not discriminate on towns or building based on income levels like American companies do. These same people that want the government to stay out of the way need to pay attention to the price of mail with the USPS compared to the private carriers like Fedex or UPS. There is a place for government sometimes and one of them is superstructure for communication and air waves. Only a greedy person who wants to own it all would disagree.

Sniper,

consider it a privilege of being in the U.S. You know all these rich folks will dole out thousands of dollars to be members of clubs simply for the perks but balk at paying taxes as part of membership of the U.S. for perks.

ring, take a good hard look at how many square miles the US has to put fibre optics in and realize that fibre optics has to have a boost aling the way.

ric, the problem with your theory is not all pay for the perks. 40% of the housholds in the US pay NO income tax so you do the math if you can. I have high speed internet and it isn't free.

Sniper,

Everybody pays whether it is in income taxes, sales tax, property tax or whatever...In fact the rich have their own loopholes that keep them from paying either. And give the fact the poor generally spend all of each check then they are actually paying a greater percentage of their monies to taxes and fees related to taxes.

By implying that because they pay little or no income tax that they are getting a free ride is a bit misleading.

Roy,

since you missed it in my post i will repeat...

i can buffer a portion at a time so that I don't have to download the whole thing before I can start watching

As far as sports I don't watch sports so I couldn't tell you but ESPN broadcasts some events live i think so you would have to check that.

#57 | Posted by richardspirit at 2010-03-16 02:12 PM


I didn't miss it. But I suspect you don't understand the technical problems of what you are saying.

If you start watching what you are simultaneously downloading, then the bit rate of the content must be lower than your download data rate.

For example, if you had a T1 circuit that had no other users on it, you could download the content at 1.544 Mbits/s. But in order to watch it as it downloads, the content has to be compressed so its data rate is lower than 1.544 Mbits/s, if it's a higher data rate, then your video will catch up to the download, and the video will start to freeze up, repeatedly.

So if you're watching a show as you download, you are watching it with VERY heavy compression, which makes the quality as bad or worse than an old VHS tape.

Now on the other hand, those of us who watch our broadcast television via over the air, we are seeing content with bit rates as high as 19.4 Mbits/s.

FYI: over the air television has a higher bit rate than even cable or satellite can deliver. As for the internet...

They won't have bit rates that Broadcast, Cable, or Satellite can deliver for a very, very long time.

Ray thinks govt involvement in anything is bad.
#31 | Posted by jackass

Fire has two sides to it. When it is contained, it cooks our food and heats our homes. When when it's out of control, it can burn us alive.

Think about that Jackass while you entertain your fantasies that government can never be big enough.

And as far as entertainment goes, how long does it take you to download the Basketball/football/baseball game that is being played?

I get all the games in real time, but I do have a 2000K connection and games are usually wild feeds from foreign countries thanks to the private control of sports media in America, so they are not the best quality yet. On the other hand HULU and similar services work great for me these days. The fact is, 1000K is good but not fast enough for quality streaming media like HULU. I just talked to the WIFI company who I get service from and they are going to up it to 3000k next week just because so many people want to watch movies on line. It will be the wave of the future, but people will still not get it for free even with the government improving the infrastructure to 1000k. What will happen though is access to written information will be vastly improved for the lower classes which is always a good thing.

40% of the housholds in the US pay NO income tax so you do the math if you can. I have high speed internet and it isn't free.

...and 50% of the country actually believes that hogwash. Corporations don't pay any taxes at all. Every penny comes out of the price of their goods and services. They exist for profit and they couldn't make a profit if they didn't pass off the price of the taxes on to the consumers. Ultimately it's the consumer that pays all the taxes on everything. What sniper is talking about is only federal income taxes at any rate. That said, it is easy to see why the government still does tax individuals, it stands to reason that if they did not, the rich would simply not incorporate to avoid paying their fair share. Corporations only exist to pass off taxes and other overhead on to the consumer. Corporations should be paying all the income taxes in the country, but people are not honest enough to make that work.

If successfully deployed, it will take billions of dollars away from ATT, Comcast, verizon, Time Warner, et all..... annually.

Everybody pays whether it is in income taxes, sales tax, property tax or whatever...In fact the rich have their own loopholes that keep them from paying either. And give the fact the poor generally spend all of each check then they are actually paying a greater percentage of their monies to taxes and fees related to taxes.

#62 | Posted by richardspirit

The thing that you ignore is where thoes taxes go.

Income tax, feds and most states.
sales tax, most states, many counties, and few cities.
Property tax, county and city.

Who would fund the high speed internet? FEDS!!!!

In most states sales tax is not on food so many avoid that one.

County and cities provide fire, police, water, sewer, etc. That is a tax on all.

You just can't broad brush taxes like you have tried and come up with an arguement that is valid.

Now back to fed income taxes. Many don't pay a cent but get back a refund. Explain that one.

Many don't pay a cent but get back a refund. Explain that one.

They have to spend if they are that poor? Who do you think is paying the corporation's taxes?

You can check your connection speed at:

speakeasy.net/speedtest

Pick the location nearest you

Ahh, the people demand high speed fapping and facebook, beamed into their homes for free! This country is fucked....

Ahh, the people demand high speed fapping and facebook, beamed into their homes for free! This country is fucked....

...and so it will pass while the Luddites weep.

I Just moved to a new apt and that is my only choice.

#3 | Posted by jackass

I'm about to move into a place where they oly have dial up in the unit. I am having the cable company over there and have told them to do whatever is necessary to get high speed. I will NOT go back to using dial up again. NO way.

eve, go for it but don't even think of making me pay for it.

I would love to see sniper pay for mine, but I already get it free. The wifi repeater is on the roof of my house.

Got no problem paying for me. Just don't like having to paying for you, and 2 more like you.

This is something I think we should all get behind, especially if we're going to be paying for it by cutting Medicare.

Gotta make it deficit-neutral, you know. May as well let the boomers pay for it.

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