What Happens If Greece Really Defaults?

Creditors are going to repo the parthenon

Seeing the birth place of democracy crumble is a little disconcerting. Hopefully that's not where we're headed.

Lots of riots in the streets.

Hopefully that's not where we're headed.

The US is at the epicenter. It's only a matter of when.

The Euro is really sweating this. Germany suggested Greece sell islands off before all Europe takes a hit.
But when you promise citizens everything and do not fund it....sound familiar, America?

Diarrhea,

Where were you when the Republicans were doing the shit that put us in this position? You brainwashed idiots seem to think that this all happened in the last 14 months.

#5 | Posted by axe

No shiite!

They're sensitive about Bush and the mess he left - like a little girl.

Where were you when the Republicans were doing the shit that put us in this position? You brainwashed idiots seem to think that this all happened in the last 14 months.
#5 | POSTED BY AXE

Actually it from 70 years of deficit spending. During all those years, all the fed did was pay the interest.

and lets add up the number of dem years in that 70..

and of course...we SHOULD watch very carefully since it appears we are headed in the very same direction.

First dibs on the Temple of Athena Nike!

We have an amazing replica of the Parthenon here in Nashville complete with a 50' statue of Athena inside.

Everything is done at full scale with every detail inside and out done as they were when the original was built in Athens.

no trojan horse?

Greece should just leave by the backdoor.

California which at one time by itself was the 5th largest country in the world based on GDP is already there---only a matter of time

If the EU cuts Greece loose, the Euro should strengthen---if they help them out it's throwing bad money after bad money and only delays reality. You can bet Germany which is probably betteroff economically then any of the countries in the EU aren't going to let loose any of their hard earned bucks---bonds sold will be based on how austere the Greek changes will be---ultimately any direct help will probably come from the IMF.

I had to laugh when an IMF rep said the Greece issue was isolated---must be a relative of Greenspan when he said the subprime issue was not a major concern 3 years ago.

After Greece, next stop; south part of Europe. After south part of Europe, next stop; the U.K.
After the U.K., the big Kahuna----and I'm sure we all know who the big Kahuna is. Spend faster, Obummer, spend faster----watch Obummer spend faster.

What a mess!

And all that rioting.

And the socialistic leader comes over here--probably for a hand out.

Where is their socialistic plan to get out of this mess?

The irony is the left voted Obama into office and Obama may go down in history as the president in office when the dismantling of many government programs began.

The irony is the left voted Obama into office and Obama may go down in history as the president in office when the dismantling of many government programs began.

Just as Republicans conceived under Reagan with this:

Spend faster, Obummer, spend faster----watch Obummer spend faster.
#14 | POSTED BY MATSOP

"The starve-the-beast doctrine is now firmly within the conservative mainstream. George W. Bush himself seemed to endorse the doctrine as the budget surplus evaporated: in August 2001 he called the disappearing surplus "incredibly positive news" because it would put Congress in a "fiscal straitjacket."

Like supply-siders, starve-the-beasters favor tax cuts mainly for people with high incomes. That is partly because, like supply-siders, they emphasize the incentive effects of cutting the top marginal rate; they just don't believe that those incentive effects are big enough that tax cuts pay for themselves. But they have another reason for cutting taxes mainly on the rich, which has become known as the "lucky ducky" argument.

Here's how the argument runs: to starve the beast, you must not only deny funds to the government; you must make voters hate the government. There's a danger that working-class families might see government as their friend: because their incomes are low, they don't pay much in taxes, while they benefit from public spending. So in starving the beast, you must take care not to cut taxes on these "lucky duckies." (Yes, that's what The Wall Street Journal called them in a famous editorial.) In fact, if possible, you must raise taxes on working-class Americans in order, as The Journal said, to get their "blood boiling with tax rage."
Paul Krugman, "The Tax-Cut Con," The New York Times, September 14, 2003 "

NOW you know why we have MASSIVE DEFICITS the right wing whines about. THEY created them.

Duh. Look at chart in #18.

Giant federal tax cuts and deficits have made it politically impossible for Congress to enact major, permanent new programs. Although big new programs stopped springing up several years before Mr. Reagan took office, the president "has changed the whole frame of reference within which the budget is debated," says Republican Sen. Slade Gorton of Washington.

But the deficit "starved" few programs to death, even in cases such as the Small Business Administration and the Economic Development Administration where many liberals questioned the programs' worth. And the deficit has sharply added to one spending category: Interest on the national debt has risen to about $140 billion in the current fiscal year from $69 billion in fiscal 1981.

"We didn't starve the beast," laments a White House official. "It's still eating quite well by feeding off future generations."
Paul Blustein, "Reagan's Record," The Wall Street Journal, October 21, 1985

"We didn't starve the beast," laments a White House official. "It's still eating quite well by feeding off future generations."
Paul Blustein, "Reagan's Record," The Wall Street Journal, October 21, 1985

Wonder why I have no use for Republicans?

They created these massive deficits ON PURPOSE!

Where is their socialistic plan to get out of this mess?

#15 | Posted by MURPHY

It is terminal---a big problem is Greece cannot print money since it doesn't have its' own currency---the U.S. can print money and is hoping it can spend money long enough until the private sector repairs itself and the economy improves---a dangerous gambit. It probably won't work since nothing has been done to support small business---the other part of the plan is to get "healhcare reform" passed---it really isn't healthcare reform; it's a tax package---an attempt to start to decrease budget deficits along with debasement of the currency and inflation---a giant crap game but we may have built up a deficit so huge that the deficit monster will have his day no matter what tricks are now played.

WTF do you expect in a deep recession with a trillion a year in unfunded liabilities left by Bush, surpluses?

Ray, you're really starting to piss AU off because you refuse to fall into left/right bullshit which has nothing to do with this. He's even using bold TEXT DAMMIT!!! SAY SOMETHING ABOUT REAGAN BEFORE HE TYPES IN ALL CAPS AND BOLD!!!

Kick both parties out of office. Revolt!

#26 | Posted by Ray

And replace them with whom, exactly?

WTF do you expect in a deep recession with a trillion a year in unfunded liabilities left by Bush, surpluses?

#25 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

Give me a break! They spend recklessly when times are good too. The feds are borrowing so heavily that their sucking credit from the private economy.

And replace them with whom, exactly?
#28 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

At this stage, it doesn't matter.

Kick the party (GOP) who conceived and executed these massive deficits and debt on purpose!

When Jimmy Carter left office we had $500 Billion in national debt and falling ...

Fuck the GOP. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing

"STARVE THE BEAST" = run up massive debt so they can dismantle social programs

WE had a slight bump because of the bill for Vietnam, but REAGAN screwed the pooch, Bush II screwed it to death.

At this stage, it doesn't matter.

#30 | Posted by Ray at 2010-03-15 09:52 PM | Reply | Flag: Non-responsive

No, you can't kick both parties out without replacing them. So what specific party and/or candidates are supposed to replace them? Just saying kick them out is stupid sloganeering. It's not serious.

AU

Have you looked at the charts I posted? Can you understand a chart? It's not a party problem. It's a political problem! You don't know what you're talking about.

Man, we live in interesting times---maybe we'll start to look at agencies that America took for granted as a part of America---the Fed is at the center of our problems and until people start to understand that we'll never heal this country---however, with time and the price of gold increasing we'll probably in 5 years be faced globally to go on a gold standard and a new global currency.

No, you can't kick both parties out without replacing them. So what specific party and/or candidates are supposed to replace them? Just saying kick them out is stupid sloganeering. It's not serious.
#33 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Write in your own name. Pick a name out of the phone book. Pick any third party. It doesn't matter. The point is to protest. They're counting on the electorate to be too stupid to vote for alternative options.

Some people like Martin Weiss look at the data which shows federal debt expanding and private debt contracting. This is fuckin serious!

Mat

It doesn't look like any country wants to loan their gold to an international currency. And I don't see anybody trusting a pure fiat international currency. That idea is getting to look DOA.

" The point is to protest. "

Well, ok Ray, I'll do all of those. But what's the end game? What's your political strategy? How does the revolution unfold?

Get yourself out of debt. We have not seen the worst of this recession yet. Obama talked about Japan's "lost decade" before the last election, indicating that he didn't want that to happen here. Well, I believe his economic policies are going to be responsible for our lost decade, which is right aroung the corner.

Here's how the argument runs: to starve the beast, you must not only deny funds to the government; you must make voters hate the government. There's a danger that working-class families might see government as their friend: because their incomes are low, they don't pay much in taxes, while they benefit from public spending. So in starving the beast, you must take care not to cut taxes on these "lucky duckies." (Yes, that's what The Wall Street Journal called them in a famous editorial.) In fact, if possible, you must raise taxes on working-class Americans in order, as The Journal said, to get their "blood boiling with tax rage."
Paul Krugman, "The Tax-Cut Con," The New York Times, September 14, 2003 "

#19 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

We know how government will say one thing all the time and their actions and motives are different---case in point---"healthcare reform"---reform? yeah, but not significant---really a tax bill--so we're used to lies, right. And by the way, the MSM are their salespeople (political correctness).Now I'm going to say something heretical that'll send leftists apoplectic. FDR when you look at the statistics was not a friend of the working man as they sold it---he was a friend of the banksters---the working man with his real income did not do that well under FDR ---FDR started the meltdown for the working man by taking us off the gold standard and Nixon made it worse when he took us off it with the rest of the globe---when you look at real incomes for the working man over those years he has not kept up.

They're counting on the electorate to be too stupid to vote for alternative options.

Keep drinking beer, morons. All is well.

But you'll argue that FDR raised taxes on the wealthy---he did but because of loop holes and monetary policy, the wealthy easily made up for it plus---over the years the fact that we're not on a gold standard benefits a relatively few and you know who they are---it hasn't done a thing for the average American---inflation is a silent tax that has been robbing the average American for years and putting them into bondage---it allows repukes and dummos to play their mischief along with wallstreet at the expense of the American people.

Well, ok Ray, I'll do all of those. But what's the end game? What's your political strategy? How does the revolution unfold?
#39 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

They are unpredictable. First get rid the psychopaths in Washington. When TSHTF, they won't hesitate to ruthlessly suppress protesters, maybe even start a war. There are no good options. Only the least worst of the worst.

Ray you know the govt is going to take your gold and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

I'm charging Ray a Troy Ounce for a can of beans.

Good luck to him cashing in that gold if the shit hits the fan. Looks pretty. Not so liquid as he'd like to think it is if it all crashes down and we're in Mad Max territory.

"We have an amazing replica of the Parthenon here in Nashville complete with a 50' statue of Athena inside."

Yeah, and if it was made of solid platinum it still wouldn't be worth a trip to Nashville.

In 1907, when we didn't have a FED, there was the panic of 1907---guess who suffered the most---the banksters---mainstreet was hardly affected. It was then that certain bankers plotted the formation of the FED. So over the years we have had the redistribution of wealth---from poor to the wealthy.

MARY

What happened to you here? Must have been a doozy.

Everyone I've ever known who came here loved it.

Not so liquid as he'd like to think it is if it all crashes down and we're in Mad Max territory.

AU and Jackass are reading too many comic books.

I'm charging Ray a Troy Ounce for a can of beans.

Good luck to him cashing in that gold if the shit hits the fan. Looks pretty. Not so liquid as he'd like to think it is if it all crashes down and we're in Mad Max territory.

#46 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Expensive can of beans---however, Ray may have the last laugh ----we'll probably eventually have to devalue our currency as they did in the great depression---to do that they had to increase the value of gold by about 50%---with the debt we have today they'll have to increase the price a lot more then that.

""STARVE THE BEAST" = run up massive debt so they can dismantle social programs"

Uh, I think the social programs are still around. In fact, they have remained the biggest obstacle in balancing the budget. Social Security is a problem, but a still a rather small one compared to medicare. And with Obamacare looming on the horizon, the future doesn't look a whole lot better.

I'm pretty sure that, all other tings being equal, reducing entitlements would reduce the amount of necessary revenues, which would only help reduce debt. Social programs cost a lot, and for the most part are economically non-value added.

Ray,

I'm curious on how much you know on De Gaulle's attack on the dollar in the 1960s, which led Nixon to move away from the gold standard.

RAY

You think someone's going to trade you cash for gold ounce bars if the shit hit the fan?

SS is solvent and has been lending money.

Starve The Beast worked. Just listen to the same Republicans who voted for all these unfunded liabilities, tax cuts, and debt whine about it now and talk about how 'we can't afford this or that..."

Idiots. They knew exactly what they were doing.

Or they'd have been whining about it 2001-2009

AU and Jackass are reading too many comic books.

RAY

And you're living in the 19th Century if you think the average person is going to trade you cash for gold if it all comes down to anarchy.

"Say, you have change for a Troy Ounce, buddy?"

MARY

What happened to you here? Must have been traumatic.

Weather's great, low crime, you can buy a really, really nice house for a fraction of what it costs on the East or West Coast, low property taxes, friendly people (unless you live in a dump of a trailer park or something I'd guess), tons of universities and colleges, nice neighborhoods, clean ....

People move here from all over. People who visit love it. What's your particular beef with Nashville?

I'm curious on how much you know on De Gaulle's attack on the dollar in the 1960s, which led Nixon to move away from the gold standard.

#52 | Posted by madbomber

I'm certainly not Ray, but I believe it happened in the late 60s---France was a creditor of ours and wanted to redeem dollars for gold ---guess what, Nixon didn't want to do that and took us off the global gold standard----and that's one of the reasons why we're where we are today

The reason we're where we're at is the GOP spent like drunken sailors.

All but $1 Trillion of the national debt was under GOP Presidential budgets.

If you want to claim the GOP Congress were responsible for Clinton's paltry addition to the national debt, WTF was stopping them once Bush got into the White House? Hmmm? They went batshit crazy.

Never heard a peep about 'deficits'. Well, unless you count Dick Cheney's "deficits don't matter".

They didn't to the GOP until they were OUT of power, did they? Now it's ALL they talk about. Hypocrites.

Steel and lead will be more valuable than gold especially if they're shaped like guns and ammo. We can take Ray's gold whenever we want by force but there will be more important commodities to fight over.

I'm curious on how much you know on De Gaulle's attack on the dollar in the 1960s, which led Nixon to move away from the gold standard.
#52 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

It wasn't so much an attack on the dollar as the realization that the growing deficits were flooding the world with dollars, causing the dollar to lose purchasing power. The gold was a better deal. Nixon refused to honor the Bretton Woods Agreement in 1971 by refusing to back the dollar with gold. If you look as some of charts I posted above, that's when federal debt spending started its rapid rise.

Starve The Beast worked. Just listen to the same Republicans who voted for all these unfunded liabilities, tax cuts, and debt whine about it now and talk about how 'we can't afford this or that..."

#54 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Doggone, AU, you're funny---I cracked my first real smile today---I'm sure over the years in a dark room in Neverland evil Repukes and their progenies would scheme with a bloated donkey as a pinatta plotting how to Starve the Beast.

Steel and lead will be more valuable than gold especially if they're shaped like guns and ammo. We can take Ray's gold whenever we want by force but there will be more important commodities to fight over.

#60 | Posted by fwthom

Sorry, Fwthom, you'll be at a disadvantage when you go after Ray's gold----the reason?---Ray's gold will buy an army.

Steel and lead will be more valuable than gold especially if they're shaped like guns and ammo. We can take Ray's gold whenever we want by force but there will be more important commodities to fight over.

#60 | Posted by fwthom

Sorry, Fwthom, you'll be at a disadvantage when you go after Ray's gold----the reason?---Ray's gold will buy an army.

Dude, read "Two Santa Clauses" and get back to us.

"Reality" isn't in the right wing dictionary. Y'all live in an alternate reality that doesn't bear any resemblance to actual history.

Canned food is what Ray should be buying. Gold won't do him any good - unless he want's to buy canned green beans. LOL

And you're living in the 19th Century if you think the average person is going to trade you cash for gold if it all comes down to anarchy.
"Say, you have change for a Troy Ounce, buddy?"
#56 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

The average person wouldn't know a gold coin from a penny. Americans might be the most ignorant people on this planet as to the economic importance of gold.

"Sorry, Fwthom, you'll be at a disadvantage when you go after Ray's gold----the reason?---Ray's gold will buy an army"

Won't do him much good when he gets whacked by one of his lieutenants.

MATSOP

Tell us what you see:

Sorry, Fwthom, you'll be at a disadvantage when you go after Ray's gold----the reason?---Ray's gold will buy an army"

Won't do him much good when he gets whacked by one of his lieutenants.

#68 | Posted by nullifidian

Ray better pay him the gold he promised.

RAY

People know what gold is, but you aren't going to be living off Troy ounces if that's your plan.

I have gold coins, but I sure don't have them to survive on if anarchy strikes.

This isn't the mid 20th Century when we lived off the gold standard.

MATSOP

Tell us what you see:

Rorschach Test

#69 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

AU, what's the answer?

I'm asking the questions here.

That's "Dr. AU" to you LOL

RAY

People know what gold is, but you aren't going to be living off Troy ounces if that's your plan.

I have gold coins, but I sure don't have them to survive on if anarchy strikes.

This isn't the mid 20th Century when we lived off the gold standard.

#71 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

They often say that you shouldn't buy gold as an investment but as a store of value and insurance---I disagree with "they"---have bought it as an investment in these times---feel the world will be forced back on some new standard and gold will be a part of that.

People know what gold is, but you aren't going to be living off Troy ounces if that's your plan.
I have gold coins, but I sure don't have them to survive on if anarchy strikes.
This isn't the mid 20th Century when we lived off the gold standard.
#71 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

There isn't going to be any anarchy. Riots. High crime rates. Extreme poverty. But no anarchy. Martial law is more likely.

I'm asking the questions here.

That's "Dr. AU" to you LOL

#73 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I was going to answer but the angel on my right shoulder won over the devil on my left shoulder.

By the way "Dr. AU", you're posting to a fellow professional but you don't have to refer to me as Dr. since I'm a humble guy.

Ah, a colleague.

Tell me (harumph...clearing throat), what are your feelings on Dr. Kasanin's early discovery and consequent findings surrounding Schizoaffective disorder?

Do you feel both drug and psychosocial therapies are required. If only drugs, which particular neuroleptic medications do you prescribe?

:-)

Ah, a colleague.

Tell me (harumph...clearing throat), what are your feelings on Dr. Kasanin's early discovery and consequent findings surrounding Schizoaffective disorder?

Do you feel both drug and psychosocial therapies are required. If only drugs, which particular neuroleptic medications do you prescribe?

:-)

#77 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Telling you (BBBBBuuuuushhhhh....clearing my rectum), although I've worked in a psychiatric hospital in the past performing physical exams, I was not a Dr. in the psychiatric field (art) of medicine but another field.

I cracked my first real smile today---I'm sure over the years in a dark room in Neverland evil Repukes and their progenies would scheme with a bloated donkey as a pinatta plotting how to Starve the Beast.

#62 | Posted by matsop at 2010-03-15 10:56 PM

Jude Wanniski (developed Reagain's 'supply side economic model' - i.e. we could raise spending and cut taxes) was only right about one thing in his life: In 1997 he declared Iraq had no WMD's.

As to "Starve The Beast", you're seeing the results on your TV every night: Republicans whining about cutting social programs because 'we can't afford them!'. Why?

They, all by themselves, ran up massive debt. Even George HW Bush called it "Voodoo Economics", and HE was right too. It's not an accident we have this massive debt - which is causing massive deficits. Ask David Stockman.

Telling you (BBBBBuuuuushhhhh....clearing my rectum),

Pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
ht
Pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
ht

(that took TWO sprays to clear the thread!)

Hey, AU, anyway you crack it we're going to see changes in the next few years some folks were blind to just in the recent past---who knows how it'll all end---I know one thing----it AIN'T going to be a fun time for quite awhile---if it happens slowly it'll be like chronic pain; if suddenly, acute pain. I knew this was coming 12--15 years ago when there wasn't a recession Greenspan didn't like and manufactured "soft landings" on a consistent basis and there was no "moral hazard"---the bailout of Long-Term Capital was the poster child of what was coming.

The topic of the thread might've made for interesting conversation.

The topic of the thread might've made for interesting conversation.

#82 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

So, Live or die, what would you like to discuss?

In 1907, when we didn't have a FED, there was the panic of 1907---guess who suffered the most---the banksters---mainstreet was hardly affected. It was then that certain bankers plotted the formation of the FED. So over the years we have had the redistribution of wealth---from poor to the wealthy.

#48 | Posted by matsop

Mat--wasn't it one of the bankers--JP Morgan I think who bailed out the bankers at one point?

"Idiots. They knew exactly what they were doing."

That's very true, but here's the deal as I see it. Most on the left are holding the Bush administration up and blaming them for deficit spending, without holding the Obama administration equally accountable. I distinctly recall many conservatives on this bashing Bush for his irresponsible spending practices, right alongside those on the left. Now that there is a very left wing pres in the white house, the justification for spending seems to be "well, the republicans did it, so we can too."

Bush may have been a social conservative but he certainly wasn't a fiscal one. A true fiscal conservative would have to admit to the American people that nothing was free. something that, while honest, would cost the "entitlement" vote.

Exactly MB--Bush and the repubs should have been fiscally conservative with their spending and didn't do it--at all.

Now both sides are trying to up the other with their 'moratorium' on earmarks.

They won't do it.

They can't help themselves and there no leadership to tell them to knock it off.

There are some in congress who get it--but they are the few and voices that are not heard.

And then some folks actually think that SS is SOLVENT!

I got a great looking bridge....

Mat--wasn't it one of the bankers--JP Morgan I think who bailed out the bankers at one point?

#84 | Posted by MURPHY

JP Morgan was the driving force and he got Rockefeller and others to pony up---back then the banking industry was much more simple---now it takes our government to step forward.

Also, Murph, it was after things settled down that the bankers thought "never again"---and you know the story from there. When they formed the FED (under darkness and deception), I believe (if memory serves me), JP Morgan, Rothschild, Vanderbilt (& one other) were the driving force in the creation of the FED.

Now the FDIC is getting set to go broke--too many banks running BK..

Just like they are thinking no more derivative--ever again.

And they are still doing them.

Last one holding the hot potato when the time runs out loses.

Now the FDIC is getting set to go broke--too many banks running BK..

#90 | Posted by MURPHY

And they're talking about taking public pension funds to invest in treasuries---that should get folks excited.

Now the FDIC is getting set to go broke--too many banks running BK..

#90 | Posted by MURPHY

I think they're there already.

And replace them with whom, exactly?
#28 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

At this stage, it doesn't matter.

#30 | Posted by Ray

Uh yes it does..If it is replaced with regional warlords.. kiss your gold and silver goodbye ray and welcome to the slave mines.

#18 | Posted by Ray

Looks like Obama needs a bigger chart.

First dibs on the Temple of Athena Nike!

#9 | Posted by daprof at 2010-03-15 08:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Greece should start selling sponsorships.

Swoosh!

#79 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010-03-15 11:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

What, 2-3 dozen posts by AU in a single thread, all saying the same thing.

AU, do you actually have any ideas about how to move forward at this point? Or is your entire purpose in life to be obsessive about assigning blame -- which everyone is already aware of?

The Master of the Obvious.

So, Live or die, what would you like to discuss?

#83 | Posted by matsop at 2010-03-15 11:58 PM

#98 | Posted by vernon at 2010-03-16 09:41 AM | Reply | Flag: Master of the Odious

See also: Oblivious.

On Topic?

The EU member states were initially wary of allowing Greece into their coalition fer precisely this reason.

Saddam moving to value oil in Euros? Ding ding ding!

~AARD88

You sirrah, win a shiny new internets fer that.

Be Well.

The Master of the Obvious.

#98 | Posted by vernon

Master of the disguise?----WOKE in reincarnation?

The whole idea of the Euro is built on debt compliance. None of the member nations are suppose to go over 3% deficits. Longterm I don't see how it can survive.

Lots of riots in the streets.

Hopefully that's not where we're headed.

The US is at the epicenter. It's only a matter of when.

#3 | Posted by Ray at 2010-03-15 03:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Greece is where we will be if we pass this health care entitlement program. There's a reason why we are the most powerful nation on Earth. It's because we don't have socialized medicine.

Yes, we should join all those nations who had universal health care, but that got rid of it.... oh, wait....

They can't get rid of it

Of course they could. Countries can do what they want.

But none have.

Uh yes it does..If it is replaced with regional warlords.. kiss your gold and silver goodbye ray and welcome to the slave mines.
#94 | Posted by Legio

Duh. We have regional warlords now. They're called Senators and Congressman. The chief warlord is the president. You're another clueless sheep.

Duh. We have regional warlords now. They're called Senators and Congressman. The chief warlord is the president. You're another clueless sheep.

#108 | Posted by Ray

You're an idiot. You'll be shitting your diapers if you ever encounter a real warlord, Somalia style.

We have regional warlords now. They're called Senators and Congressman.

they are lots of things.

but they aren't "regional warlords".

If I thought that I would be fucking outta here asap.

You're an idiot. You'll be shitting your diapers if you ever encounter a real warlord, Somalia style.
#109 | Posted by nullifidian

The US spends as much on war as the rest of the world combined, dimwit.

If I thought that I would be fucking outta here asap.
#110 | Posted by eberly

If you're Muslim or Mexican, don't waste any time.

Of course they could. Countries can do what they want.

#107 | Posted by Corky

People will NEVER give up their free bennies, especially when they feel they are owed, or it is a "right"

#112 | Posted by RIGHTPOLICY at 2010-03-17 04:29 PM | Reply | Flag: Missed the part about the Exchange being premium-based.

The public health system in Greece provides free, or low cost, healthcare services to residents

What's funny is that you college students who supported 0bama will have to fork it over if this passes... "no madates...blah blah blah" lol

And they were screaming, hollering , and protesting when their tuition went up in Berkeley--idiot leftists---this Greece thing is eventually going to sweep the globe and government budgets are eventually going to come under tremendous pressure and a lot of the entitlement programs are going to come under pressure----the government socialist ponzi schemes and experiments may be coming to an end just as all the other bubbles including subprime---the irony is that the ultimate socialist of American presidents, Barack Obama, may be at the helm when this thing topples.

Here's the problem with entitlements. When the government says you have the "right" to something regardless of your ability to pay for it, what you are really saying is that someone else has the responsibility to provide it without being compensated in return. There is no "free" or "subsidized" healthcare...the costs are still the same. The only thing that changes is who pays the bill. It may seem free to the end user, because they are not paying for it, but you can bet your ass that someone somewhere has sacrificed so that the government could give someone else said good or service without having to pay for it.

That being said, you wind up with some sectors of society living under the impression that they are entitled to something that they can not get for themselves. Meaning that it has to be taken from someone else. Meaning that for the government to offer this right, someone else has to be willing to work, for free, to provide it. So what happens when those that provide for society finally say "no more." Now, the government has told the people that they have a right to something that the government physically can not provide, even while the people become increasingly vocal in demanding that they do. So what does the government do? Take loans. Print money. Do whatever it takes to keep the people placated.

While avoiding at all costs having to present them with the truth...that nothing is free.

That's pretty much where Greece is at. Greece is one of the few places left in the world where communism has a strong presence, and the government has catered to the far left for many years by offering entitlements to workers. Unfortunately, adhering to Marxist canon didn't make the workers smarter or more competitve, it just made them the recipients of more handouts. I would hazard a guess that even this late in the game they still feel themselves entitled to extravagant government provided bennies, even while the country crumbles around them. Instead of Marie Antoinette saying about the peasant, "let them eat cake," it's the greek unions and communists saying it about the taxpayers.

There's a saying.
A government that has the power to steal for you, has the same power to steal from you, and they do.

In truth, governments exist on stolen goods.

You're an idiot. You'll be shitting your diapers if you ever encounter a real warlord, Somalia style.
#109 | Posted by nullifidian

This is the comparison now, this is your gold standard? Somalia?
My how far we have sunk.

Well at least its not a socialist gulag, you remember 20Million died, in one country mind you, due to "big government". At least in Somalia I have a fighting chance.

"This is the comparison now, this is your gold standard? Somalia?
My how far we have sunk."

That retort is incoherent, and as much a non-sequitur as Ray's. Ray sees apocalypse ahead. If it's as bad as he says it will be, private armies will rule.

"At least in Somalia I have a fighting chance."

Yeah, good luck, cowboy. lol. You might want to watch "Black Hawk Down" before escaping your oppressive taxes to live in Somalia, however.

"Yeah, good luck, cowboy. lol. You might want to watch "Black Hawk Down" before escaping your oppressive taxes to live in Somalia, however."

In Mogadishu, hundreds to thousands of Somali's died trying to do nothing more than harm American troops, and they did so, killing eighteen. Depending on the source, the kill ratio was anywhere between 1/10 and 1/50.

I would even go so far as to submit that the Somali's are an example of what happens when you try to impose yourself on others against their will.