Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Sunday, March 14, 2010

Two guns used in shootings this year at the Pentagon and a Las Vegas courthouse came from the same unlikely place -- the police and court system of Memphis, Tenn. Associated Press reports that the guns were once seized in criminal cases in Memphis, then made their separate ways from an evidence vault to gun dealers and to the shooters.

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what is the problem with this. there is no gun shortage. why not have some more revenue.

Memphis.

Figures.

We need to have them stop selling cars that are later involved in accidents or drive-by shootings.

Not to mention the bling that enhances the criminal lifestyle.

Or computers that can be used to become part of a webbot used to blackmail a company.

What is interesting about the story is that it IS a story. Considering the thousands of guns sold by police departments across the nation, for two to be involved in crime is a news story. Not something that happens every day.

I mean, if any significant percentage of these weapons were involved in crime, that would be of concern. But what it really means that not just a majority, but over 99.9% of the firearms sold by police departments to raise funds, are NOT involved in criminal activities.

Actually, that should be 99.99%+

i agree with you, but where did you get that figure. is it real or just made up.

What is interesting about the story is that it IS a story. Considering the thousands of guns sold by police departments across the nation, for two to be involved in crime is a news story. Not something that happens every day.

A very good point. No one has come out against guns on this posting yet, so I have faith that most people see it the way we do.

Of course there are those that are dead set against guns, but that's a minority view.

Reminds me of the old mob sales pitch:

"It's mint ... except for da scratch over da serial number"

they wouldn't sell the gun without a way to identify it. scratching the serial # off doesn't do any good.

i agree with you, but where did you get that figure. is it real or just made up.

#5 | Posted by NotMyRealName at 2010-03-14 08:06 PM | Reply | Flag

www.kentuckystatepolice.org is a start for gathering those stats. 500+ for 2010 alone.

So even a conservative estimate 10 states x 10 years is 50,000 guns. So 2/50000 = 0.00004 or 0.004%

"So 2/50000 = 0.00004 or 0.004%"

And you are certain those were the only two?

"We need to have them stop selling cars that are later involved in accidents or drive-by shootings.

Not to mention the bling that enhances the criminal lifestyle.

Or computers that can be used to become part of a webbot used to blackmail a company.

What is interesting about the story is that it IS a story. Considering the thousands of guns sold by police departments across the nation, for two to be involved in crime is a news story. Not something that happens every day.

I mean, if any significant percentage of these weapons were involved in crime, that would be of concern. But what it really means that not just a majority, but over 99.9% of the firearms sold by police departments to raise funds, are NOT involved in criminal activities.

#3 | Posted by daprof"

Fucking moron completely discounts the fact that handguns only purpose are purely as weapons. Go back to whacking off to your American Rifleman and leave the forum.


"So 2/50000 = 0.00004 or 0.004%"

And you are certain those were the only two?

#10 | Posted by REDIAL at 2010-03-14 08:38 PM | Reply |

A) Well, no. Can you give me any more stories where there were more? I can probably dig up more gun auction sales number to decrease the percentage even further.

B) It was a hypothetical calculation, as it reads.

C) The guns in most state/city/etc police auctions are usually only sold to licensed firearms dealers who then sell them to 'the public', though there may be exceptions. Therefore, guns as sold to people in those cases after the person completes the background check.

D) No note was made in the story if the guns were stolen from the rightful owners or how those two guns came into possession of the "alleged" shooters. Maybe they bought them legally. Maybe not. More info needed.

E) The point is that ultimately the number of guns that are "recycled" to a life of crime is extremely low. But you know, once you've been in the evidence locker, deprived of any sort of representation, who knows how it will affect you as a gun? Oh wait...guns are inanimate tools, not people ;)

I am just wondering how the guns got lose and killed some people on their own?

Is this like the Stinger missiles Reagan sold to Iran?

Memphis.

Figures.

Unlike New Orleans where you buy them direct from the officer, for cash and he destroys the records.

you have to pay in New Orleans, i thought that you just had to flash someone.

"i thought that you just had to flash someone"

You only get a squirt gun for that.

"Well, no. Can you give me any more stories where there were more?"

Well for one thing, the article talks about 2 cases of guns used in "High profile shootings" vs your claim of "Criminal activites".

Here's some more fun statistics:

2 guns sold by Memphis police were involved in high profile shootings. Memphis is about 1/255th the population of the United States so nationally there must have been 255x2=1100 police sold guns used in "high profile" shootings.

Gun homicide rate in the US is around 6.5 in 100,000 so that would make it 22,750 homicides per year. I don't hear about more than ten or so "high profile" shootings per year, so the homicide rate is about 2,275 per single high profile shooting.

So, for every police sold weapon in a high profile shooting (1100) there must be 1100 x 2,275 = 2.5 Million involved in ordinary homicides.

Now, that's just homicides, not including non-homicidal "criminal activity". Lets be conservative and say only one in ten criminal acts results in a homicide. That still means (by these BS statistics) that 25 million guns sold by police are involved in "criminal activity". In one year.

My point being that when you don't have any real data you can't work out statistical conclusions to five decimal points.

#3 | Posted by daprof"

Fucking moron completely discounts the fact that handguns only purpose are purely as weapons. Go back to whacking off to your American Rifleman and leave the forum.

#11 | Posted by furio at 2010-03-14 08:44 PM | Reply | Flag

Wow, Furio...no valid response, I see. Typical Alinksy #5 & ad-hominem. Something you seem to excel at when you can't think beyond your emotions. But hey, that's typical of your posts.

Glad you could find an outlet here. Too bad you can't functionally participate in the discussion.

Let's see...for you, furio.... I christen you "flurrio" -- all wind and little substance, signifying nothing.

Hope you enjoy your counter-Al #5, flurrio.

"My point being that when you don't have any real data you can't work out statistical conclusions to five decimal points."

See elementary counting statistics.

True, Zat. Been a while since I had stats.

So let's say 99+% and leave it at that?

good lord i can only hope that i have the pleasure of shoving my poboy up you ass one day

Ya better come armed with something better than a poboy...

Hmm...sandwich vs .45 vs car antenna....

Oh, and Bastid...congrats on Alinksy #5...worthless as a tool to foster discussion and change minds, but one of those things that the feckless use to try to sway people through intimidation or useless ad-hominem.

So, let's see...Bastid...so close to Bastard. But hey, let's go with AssTard....there's your #5.

"good lord i can only hope that i have the pleasure of shoving my poboy up you ass one day"

Anyone know what that even means?

What the...?!

Cops are selling the guns with the full knowledge that at least some will be used to commit crimes.

But, crime is good for cops because it gets them more anti-crime tax dollars, lets them work more overtime, etc.

So basically the cops play an active role in creating the problem they are supposed to be fixing.

And, not surprisingly, the right-wingers here think there's nothing wrong with that.

I suspect in Canada they melt down all the junk and hand out the good stuff at Xmas parties...

I might just be cynical though.

Snoofy,

You are the victim of bad logic. If what you say is true, then if they ever sell one car that is used to run someone over, then they shouldn't sell cars.

People use guns for self defense. People buy those guns legitimately. They have a Right recognized by the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. To protect themselves, among other things, against people who use guns and other weapons against them.

The number of guns sold by police auctions that end back up in criminal hands and used in a criminal nature appears to be very small.

You need to try to think things through with some logic, based on research and fact, instead of just talking from your emotional side.

You are the victim of bad logic. If what you say is true, then if they ever sell one car that is used to run someone over, then they shouldn't sell cars

Fine. If you're so impeccably logical, please explain to me why the police are selling anything.

What part of policing specifically requires operating a store?

This should be good.

"please explain to me why the police are selling anything. "

Over the course of a year a police department will acquire all kinds of stuff: autos, trucks, bicycles, tools, TVs, stereos, guns, etc.

What should they do with all that stuff?

If it's stolen, the owner has first dibs, but usually has already replaced it with something newer and better.

A lot of the stuff is also damaged. I knew a mechanic who'd go to police auctions because he could buy junk cars for nothing and tear them down for used parts. The leftover hulk went to the scrap yard.

Recycling, man.

Guns are not illegal to own. And in the overwhelming number of cases they are only dangerous to the bad guys.

"If it's stolen, the owner has first dibs, but usually has already replaced it with something newer and better."

Very true, making insurance fraud the perfect double-dipping crime.

Daprof - I really think your estimates are way off. These were only 2 cases that we heard of. How many time were these captured and sold again guns used in a crime and were never recovered? Some are still be in used I imagine others just haven't been found. That being said I fully beleive in my right to own guns and I do. I don't hunt anymore (to lazy in my old age) But I have 2 pistols and 2 rifles and with any luck I'll never be put in a situation where I'll need to point them at someone. Since I moved to NY I've learned they don't have a "make my day law" here. It would suck big time going to prison defending myself, family, possessions etc. Colorado had very good self defense laws, NY should take a better look at them.

...And, not surprisingly, the right-wingers here think there's nothing wrong with that."
#26 | Posted by snoofy

You're kidding right snoofy? That's got to be the most retarded statement I've seen in a long long time. Well done moron!

Over the course of a year a police department will acquire all kinds of stuff: autos, trucks, bicycles, tools, TVs, stereos, guns, etc.

What should they do with all that stuff?

Obviously, they should hand it over to whatever agency in their jurisdiction is responsible for disposing of surplus property.

Why should the police be selling it on their own dime?

I don't see the value in paying cops cop wages and cop overtime to hold a fucking cakewalk.

But naturally, and as predicted, the right-wingers think it's an awesome idea.

Shit, I guess the cops in medical marijuana states should open dispensaries to dispose of all the dope they confiscate too. Right?

We need to have them stop selling cars that are later involved in accidents or drive-by shootings.

The Pentagon terrorist was mentally unstable. He never could have purchased a gun at a store, but thanks to the gun nuts, every loony and Mexican drug dealer can load up on guns any time they want from a "private" seller.

"But, crime is good for cops"

It's good for civilians, too, cuz it keeps the cops busy, and not harrassing the rest of us. But really, the police would be better off only selling their drugs.

Fine. If you're so impeccably logical, please explain to me why the police are selling anything.

#29 | Posted by snoofy

I guess they arn't caught in any budget problems and get all the funds they need.

Real problem is, the guns remember that they can kill and won't stop when sold to a new owner.

Tedly,

Until other instances come forward, the stats are fairly simple, even if just an estimate.

Here are some numbers:
There were over 14 million (14,033,824 ) gun purchases last year (2009)
www.fbi.gov

From November 30, 1998 - February 28, 2010, only 761,814 have been denied. www.fbi.gov

Here are the stats for Total NICS Background Checks for the same period: www.fbi.gov 112,380,272

0.06% Denials.

-----------------------

With that as background, now let's consider this particular case. The number of guns that are sold by police departments that end up and are used by criminals. For simplicity's sake, we won't worry about guns bought this year and used next year or after.

We know of exactly 2 cases where guns sold by the Memphis Police Department were used in a criminal act.
We do not know how those two guns came into the hands of the shooters. Were they stolen? Purchased at the gun shop? (If so, the individuals, if they were not allowed to own guns, would have been denied by the NICS background check, since we know that is so effective. (/sarc) )

So now we need to know how many firearms were sold by various law enforcement departments across the U.S.

We know in Kentucky, the State Police sell them at auction. And we know that they had about 500 firearms (after you remove the pulled, BB guns, etc.) for one auction.

They also have six auctions scheduled this year (www.kentuckystatepolice.org )

So for just Kentucky, since I haven't found data yet for Tennessee, we've approximately 5000 firearms up for sale this year alone. I estimate it lower that 6 x 500, just to be conservative.

That means using JUST Kentucky's data, we'd have 2/5000 = 0.04%. { or 2/6000 ( 0.03%) for a liberal interpretation. }

And since we know that more than one state's law enforcement departments sell firearms, the percentage goes even lower.

Do the cops sell their used plungers?

Maybe their used car antennas....

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