Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Sunday, March 14, 2010

Jesse Ventura: You didn't see anything about it in the mainstream media, but at a recent conference in San Francisco, more than 1,000 architects and engineers signed a petition demanding that Congress begin a new investigation into the destruction of the three World Trade Center skyscrapers on 9-11.

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Wow, Ventura has really gone off the deep end---saw him on the tube recently and he looked and sounded a tad bit weird.

Just so I understand, someone coordinated the hijacking of airliners by terrorists and the crashing of said planes into the towers with their own deployment and detonation of explosives in the towers, 'cause that would demolish the entire building where the planes might not.

uh-huh. Someone's been watching too much TV.

Name me someone or some agency that has proven themselves competent enough to do that, and in secret with no leaks.

I mean, I wouldn't put something like this past the Cheneyites, it's just that they are not competent enough to accomplish it.

Hell, Dick couldn't even hunt birds without shooting someone in the face.

"Thermite itself dates back to 1893. It is a mixture of aluminum and rust powder, which react to create intense heat. The reaction produces iron, heated to 2,500 degrees Centigrade [4,532 degrees Fahrenheit]. This can be used to do welding. It can also be used to melt other iron. So in nano-thermite, this powder from 1893 is reduced to tiny particles, perfectly mixed. When these react, the intense heat develops much more quickly. Nano-thermite can be mixed with additives to give off intense heat, or serve as a very effective explosive. It contains more energy than dynamite, and can be used as rocket fuel."

So where are the other 'perfectly mixed particles' that when mixed with thermite--makes this incredible explosive??

Thermite was used to weld the damn building together. They found trace amounts of thermite--OK!

It was used to weld the structure when first built.

Has he had a stroke?

The number of people needed to pull this off would be over 10,000.

And then they are all supposed to keep it a secret?

Yeah right..

I find it difficult to believe a building occupied daily by thousands of people day in and day out and year after year could be secretly rigged to be blown up.

Then taking into consideration the numbers of people that would have needed to be involved and nobody say's squat? Not One?

Our entire government, persons in the house, the senate and the executive would have had to have knowledge. And not one whistle blower?

Sorry, that's a bit more than I'm willing to accept.

Jet fuel, wind, and combustibles (paper, wood, plastics, petroleum in flooring materials, etc.) already residing in the towers would get extemely hot.

Nope, sorry. Prove it was controlled demolition or shut up.

Leading people to believe their government would orchestrate and carry out such evil benefits no-one except those wanting to destory the American nation.

Dispicable.

Has he had a stroke?

#4 | Posted by Ron_Karate

Possibility; just think he's hyping his new book. He's been putting his face all over the place recently---the only way for some folks to make money is to develop a scam---it's a lot easier then working for a living---plus they love the limelight.

Rcade stole my post!

Oh Well... Just as long as it made the front page.

"the only way for some folks to make money is to develop a scam"

You got that right. Just ask Larry Silversteen.

Maybe it was rigged to be blown up while it was being constructed.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Rig it to be blown up while you're building it.

Brilliant!

What was Chenny doing during that time?

Rcade stole my post! Oh Well... Just as long as it made the front page.

Your post about the censorship is also on the front page.

Has he had a stroke?

#4 | Posted by Ron_Karate

He has always had the head twitch, even back in his WWF days.

Maybe it's the same "they" that killed Kennedy(pick which one).

You're bleeding, man. You're hit.

I ain't got time to bleed.

Oh... Okay... You got time to duck?

He has always had the head twitch, even back in his WWF days.

Oh, so that's why he wore the pink boa.

Wasn't that the other guy who wore the boa??

im sure they wired the tallest buildings in the world with demolition explosives while everyone on both buildings were out to lunch....makes sense Gov.

Wow is this Jesse??

media.photobucket.com

"Maybe it was rigged to be blown up while it was being constructed."

Maybe it was built by Joshua Construction using nitroglycerine in hollow bricks.

Here he is an yellow

a.espncdn.com

5. Inability to employ or understand Occam's Razor. Aided by the principle in 4. above, conspiracy theorists never notice that the small inconsistencies in the accounts which they reject are dwarfed by the enormous, gaping holes in logic, likelihood and evidence in any alternative account.

from
Top 10 characteristics of conspiracy theorists

www.urban75.org

Penn & Teller - 9/11 Conspiracy Theories

www.youtube.com

Richard Nixon and Watergate convinced a lot of people that their government couldn't be trusted.... 911 conspirasists take this legit wariness to it's natural extreme loony toon conclusions.

Jesse has been living conspiracy for years.

He was, afterall, part of an organization that hoaxes large portions of its fans to believe that people can bash someone with steel chairs and throw them about and that nobody gets severely injured in the process.

I'd like to see Jesse throw 250lbs. un-assisted. Bet it's not near as far as a willing 250 lb. acrobat.

Oh, so that's why he wore the pink boa.

#15 | Posted by Ron_Karate at 2010-03-14 01:52 PM |

Long before Rodman stole his act.

Wow is this Jesse??

Yep. Keep that in mind. He's a publicity hound.

I blame Mean Gene.

Richard Nixon and Watergate convinced a lot of people that their government couldn't be trusted.... 911 conspirasists take this legit wariness to it's natural extreme loony toon conclusions.

#21 | Posted by Corky

Wow, Cork, agreement for once---your cerebral synapsis must all be firing on all cylinders today.

Oh yeah, those 10 people boOb says were in on the conspiracy, planted thermite in the towers! And NONE of them are talking.

And all those bimbos at the SEC who covered up the 'short sellers' bonanza KNOW to keep quite. Those who made the money too...shhhh!

It's the largest conspiracy of all time, thak goodness bush has such a strong reputation that everybody is keeping quiet!

Frankly,

A government that can't keep secrets about secret projects (say, oh, the NYT as a publisher of those secrets) sure couldn't keep a secret this large.

Discovery Channel(?) did a nice debunk of Rosie O'D and Jessy V's beliefs about the Twin Towers/Pentagon/etc.

Of course, some will say that there is always a "Wag the Dog" scenario for these things. Some will say that the government is really good health care. Some will say that the government is really good at protecting citizens from abuses of government.

And the rest of us non-imaginary people will just fall on the floor, laughing our asses off.

Richard Nixon and Watergate convinced a lot of people that their government couldn't be trusted.

Don't forget LBJ and the Gulf of Tonkin.

If Jesse V was in a Warner Bros. cartoon and they where X-Raying his bald noggin, we'd all see the proverbial coo-coo clock.

Me thinks he took too many headers into the turnbuckle.

Well, they kept the bunker at the Greenbrier secret for forty years. I'm just sayin'.

from the bbc
Passport discovery

Rescue workers sifting through the tons of rubble earlier discovered a passport belonging to one of the suspected hijackers a few blocks from where the World Trade Center's twin towers once stood.

New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik said investigators would probably be unable to identify the hijackers, because there were unlikely to be enough of their remains left to test.
total destruction of concrete and steel, fireballs
from planes hot enough to melt steel, and not enough
remains of hijackers left to test! but somehow this
passport survives? i don't buy it.

Richard Nixon and Watergate convinced a lot of people that their government couldn't be trusted.

Don't forget LBJ and the Gulf of Tonkin.

#29 | Posted by Ron_Karate

And then those South American left wing dictators that all picked lousy aircraft to fly on.

Wow, Ventura has really gone off the deep end---saw him on the tube recently and he looked and sounded a tad bit weird.

All those days of being on the receiving end of piledrivers are starting to catch up with him. Yes, it's fake... but there's probably a placebo effect.

Just so I understand, someone coordinated the hijacking of airliners by terrorists and the crashing of said planes into the towers with their own deployment and detonation of explosives in the towers, 'cause that would demolish the entire building where the planes might not." --Corky

probably more involved than that....someone planted the explosives 20 years ago and they have been standing by all this time waiting for hijacked planes to hit the towers

Anyone notice how much Ventura looks like Craig T Nelson??

Is this censorship, or is this a refusal to give a bunch of drooling, delusional moonbats the time of day?

I must admit this is the first time I've read any real details on the so called "911 Conspiracy Theory".

Thermite? You must be kidding... we used to use that to spot weld grounding cables to structural steel. I'd hardly call it an explosive.

Why exactly does anyone care what Jesse Ventura has to say on anything?

Name me someone or some agency that has proven themselves competent enough to do that, and in secret with no leaks.

Mossad?

The main problem with 9/11 conspiracy theories is it postpones the day that Bush himself will be judged on his horrendous incompetence that led to 9/11. Proof that Al Quaida was behind the USS Cole bombing finally reached Clinton's desk just a few days before Bush's inauguration. Clinton rightly left the US response to GW Bush, who proceeded to do nothing.

And the Bush administration ignored Al Quiada until September 12th, 2001. Had Bush responded to the US Cole bombing, and had Bush not put all his foreign policy goals into "Star Wars" and nearly zero into Al Quiada and world terror, 9/11 might have been a bust.

But anyone who makes such a claim gets thrown in with the rest of the "truthers". Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire truther movement exists more as a ploy to protect Bush from his true culpability for 9/11.

Again. I dont care HOW the buildings came down. Except maybe building 7.

What i care about:

1. WHY DID WTC OWNER LARRY SILVERSTEIN RE-INSURE THE AGING BUILDINGS FOR MORE THAN THEIR WORTH WEEKS BEFORE THE ATTACKS?

2. WHO WAS SHORT-SELLING THE AIRLINE STOCKS IN THE DAYS BEFORE THE ATTACKS?

3. WHAT INVESTIGATIONS WERE UNDERWAY AT THE SEC IN BUILDING 7 AT THE TIME?

How the buildings came down isn't important. WHY they came down is.

I must admit this is the first time I've read any real details on the so called "911 Conspiracy Theory".
Thermite? You must be kidding... we used to use that to spot weld grounding cables to structural steel. I'd hardly call it an explosive.
#38 | Posted by REDIAL at 2010-03-14 03:28 PM

Revisiting 9/11/2001 --Applying the Scientific Method
Dr. Steven E. Jones>

In the thermite/thermate reaction, many molten droplets are typically produced, which form spheres upon cooling in air. They are mostly metallic iron mixed with such other elements which were present in the thermite-analog used. For example, using a mixture of aluminum powder, iron and sulfur, we find small spheres are produced in the thermate reaction. The spheres from the thermite reaction are observed (using X-EDS methods) to contain strong peaks for aluminum and iron, and for "thermate"; sulfur is also prominent. (Note that the iron-aluminum-sulfur spheres from MacKinlay's apartment contained very low calcium, so the sulfur is evidently not from gypsum, a common building material). Thus we have chemical signatures for thermite variants, and we will compare the composition of the thermite-generated spheres with the spheres found abundantly in the WTC dust.

In addition, if one adds other oxidizers to the mix such as copper oxide, potassium permanganate, zinc nitrate, and/or barium nitrate, then copper, potassium, manganese, zinc and/or barium will show strong peaks in the thermite-produced metallic spherules. Thus, one can determine by X-EDS analysis just what elements were used in the originating aluminothermic mixture. It is quite possible that different formulations of thermite analogs were used in the destruction of the WTC Towers and WTC 7, so that some spherules would show for example -- Fe, Al, S while others would show Fe, Al, S, K and Mn, and still others Al, Cu, Fe and so forth. Aluminum (oxidized) and
another metal (whose oxide has been reduced) provide the fundamental signature, with sulfur added to facilitate cutting through steel and other oxidizers added to vary the speed of the reaction and so forth. Many variations are possible.
..
This is the standard procedure for fire and explosion investigations looking for thermite residues.
Was it applied to the WTC "crime scene"? NIST was asked:
Question: ""Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues? The combination of
thermite and sulfur (called thermate) "slices through steel like a hot knife through
butter."
Answer; "NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel."49

Oh quoting 'doctor' Jones again?

Any chance of being taken seriously goes out the window with his lunacy.

NIST is remiss in not testing for thermite residues as required by the NFPA 921 code. We are testing for these residues and invite other serious researchers to join us. The EDS methods are well established.

Other studies of the WTC dust, such as the USGS survey of and the R. J. Lee study also noted the presence of metallic spheres in the WTC dust, even iron-rich spherules.50 However, the origin of these iron-rich microspheres remained a mystery in earlier studies, which did not present any interpretation that includes the hypothesis that thermite-analogs might have been used in the destruction of the WTC skyscrapers and in the concomitant production of iron-rich spheres, nor did they report the iron-aluminum-sulfur combination in the spheres which our team has observed.

Thermate-TH3 is an analog of thermite containing sulfur and barium nitrate, developed by the military for destroying enemy vehicles51. In general, thermate (as defined here) combines aluminum powder and iron or other metal oxides with sulfur. The thermate reaction proceeds rapidly and is in general faster than basic thermite in cutting through steel due to the presence of sulfur. (Elemental sulfur forms a low-melting-temperature eutectic with iron). Given the mix of trace metals present in anomalously high concentrations in the WTC dust such as zinc, copper and manganese and barium, and the formation of iron-aluminum-rich spherules, I have argued that significant aluminothermic reactions occurred, with likely ingredients to include powders of aluminum, iron oxide, copper oxide, zinc nitrate, sulfur, and potassium permanganate. We are learning more by studying the iron-rich spheres found in the WTC dust.

49 wtc.nist.gov
50 pubs.usgs.gov journals.cambridge.org
51 See www.dodtechmatch.com

Oh so speak sofftly, when the SEC looked into that and said there was nothing to it.....means nothing to you?

Or like boOb, you say they are in on the coverup too?

OK, I'm sold... there were a lot of metals in the buildings.

"Firefighters could not find any objects larger than a telephone touch pad - and that's a lot of differentiated material comprising those towers" having been said in another thread deserves repeating and careful consideration. Apparent pulverization occurred and that's mysteriously unexplored by NIST. No metalurgical analysis was performed by NIST. Precisely what physical evidence did NIST analyze other than the videos?

USGS satellite thermal imaging exposes sources of energy continuing to cook the steel, keeping it molten for weeks afterwards - and chemical analysis identifies thermite + sulfur = thermate neatly explains the indications of demolition.

1 This paper deals with the incendiary events and the forensic evidence that remains to prove that the official story is wrong. Specifically, this paper discusses the chemistry of iron-aluminum-rich microspheres that are found in the dust from the rubble, the chemical content of these microspheres and the physical chemistry of the iron-sulfur-oxygen system since sulfur is one of the omnipresent elements in the iron-aluminum-rich microspheres and was also found in a metallurgical study of structural iron from the WTC 7 2.

1 http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/ factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm,
2 http://911research.wtc7.net/ wtc/evidence/metallurgy/ WTC_apndxC.htm, by Jonathan Barnett, Ronald R. Biederman, R. D. Sisson, Jr. of Worcester Polytechnic Institute

Dr. Steven Jones discovered the iron-aluminum-rich microspheres and has analyzed their elemental composition using XEDS analysis.3 This discovery, of recent date, is a very important addition to the body of evidence that disproves the official story. At the present time the interpretation of these microspheres is still under discussion as is the composition of the incendiary they imply.

..

About Thermite

The evidence is overwhelming that thermite or a thermite-like mixture was used in the WTC 2 tower very shortly before the building fell. What was the purpose of this? Thermite has been used to weld railroad rail sections together and also to cut structural steel. It has also been used for military purposes such as destroying guns and other weapons, disabling engines, and to rapidly destroy cryptographic machines. It appears that in the WTC it was used to cut structural steel in an early phase of controlled demolition.

This use implies that whatever the task, it had to be completed in the last minute or so before the building began to fall. Any chemical process that continued after the primary task was completed is simply an unavoidable sequela of the primary purpose.

An excellent article on thermite is posted in wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Thermite#Types.
There are a number of possible reactions that could produce large amounts of heat that could be used to melt (cut) steel. For example,

Fe2O3 + 2Al -> Al2O3 + 2Fe

3FeO + 2Al -> Al2O3 + 3Fe

3 "Revisiting 9/11/2001Applying the Scientific Method", by Dr. Steven Jones, Journal of 911 Studies, V 11, May 2007

correctly = metallurgical

Jesse's speech is reasonable in every respect except the twin tower collapse speed. Both airplanes hit the buildings at about 3/4 height. The mass of structure above the fuel fire was 1/4 of the buildings entire mass. Once heat destroyed one floor's structure, the mass above fell about forty feet and hit the lower floors, bursting cold steel joints everywhere. Down it came.

The process can be very fast, but it must take longer than free fall. Whether that could be seven tenths of a second longer seems implausible, but where did this number come from?

Thermite is used to permanently ground large structures which carry large electric loads. Trace quantities should be no surprise. But pools of molten steel which stayed hot for three months is thus far inexplicable. Not proof of anything, just unexplained.

More troubling is the collapse of building seven. If adjacent heat caused failure, its fall would have been towards to source of heat. Instead it fell straight, just like the other buildings. This makes no sense, unless you suppose a controlled demolition.

fuck anyone that calls someone who wants TOUGH questions answered a truther. that is so fucking gay.

I like ACCOUNTABILISISTS.

I'm sure all you people are more qualified that the 1,000 architects and engineers asking for a new investigation. I'm sure all you people know better than the 911 Commission who stated their own report was Bullshit. I'm sure all you people know that the best way to take out skyscrapers is to take out a few floors near the top and watch it go boom. I'm sure all you people have seen the plane that hit the Pentagon. I'm sure all you people know why Ted Olson lied about receiving phone call from his wife on the day she died. I'm sure all you people know all the answers.

I just wonder why you aren't putting the answers on line. All I hear from you Super Geniuses is more questions. How can you just have more questions, and think you have all the answers?

give me thirty people with high connections in the US govt and the israeli mossad and 3 or 4 manchurian muslim candidates and i can pull of 9-11.

one of the reasons 9-11 happened in the first place was that it was planned and executed before and on 9-11, if you get my drift.

Everybody knows it was GW who was behind this. Wait. That sounds like an asinine leftwing statement.

Stick to things you know, Boob, like car antennas and lunar smokestacks, 'kay? You're in waaaay over your head here.

Everybody knows it was GW who was behind this. Wait. That sounds like an asinine leftwing statement.

#54 | Posted by bph320 at 2010-03-14 08:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Bush had nothing to do with the planning. His job was to do nothing, and let it happen. Why would he lie about seeing the first plane that hit the Pentagon? He thought everyone saw the first plane---just like he did.

Stick to things you know, Boob, like car antennas and lunar smokestacks, 'kay? You're in waaaay over your head here.

#55 | Posted by LetUsPrey at 2010-03-14 08:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

That would be two more things than you know. You are an expert at talking out your ass and namecalling though. Critical thinking is not your strength. Following like a good little sheeple is your strong point.

The Plutonium Files.

How many people knew and how long did it take before it was admitted?

The BBC called that building 7 had collapsed.

20 minuted before it happened.

Now, explain why so many people who knew about the testing of Plutonium on people was never disclosed...

And, explain how the media knew the collapse of a building 20 minutes before it happened and there's no question asked - Who gave that report?

"Plutonium Files"

Steel files work much better and aren't quite as nasty or expensive.

True Zat.

Many people were harmed by the Plutonium testing. Do people know how long those experiments were being done? When it finally was disclosed and by whom? And, what was ever done to those that did it?

Read Sakharov's memoir.

US Govt:Way Too Corrupt to Prosecute?

The uncontestible "physics" of just how the WTC collapsed,straight down in just 11 seconds (plus how W7 fell even quicker yet was not hit by any airplace) proves the US Govt's story is a very Incompotent LIE!!! But anyone who "Disagrees" with the Govt's 911 LIE has to branded as a Nut Case or else...because everything thats happened in the last 10 years desperately DEPENDS on the continuation of that 911 LIE,including the Iraq & AAfghanistan Oil & Opium Wars,the Patriot Act,Homeland Security etc.etc. Otherwise lots of Washington High Rollers are going to prison including Bush and Cheney and probably Obama too.This is not to mention the lawsuits that will pulverize whats left of the Washington Corpo/Fascist Mafia! A real investigation of 911 on the physical and mathmatical evidence would be enough to spell the end of the US Govt...and just like a Mexican Drug Cartel they literally can't afford to let that happen!

"I'm sure all you people know why Ted Olson lied about receiving phone call from his wife on the day she died."

OK... what's this one about?

"I'm sure all you people know why Ted Olson lied about receiving phone calls from his wife on the day she died."

OK... what's this one about?

#63 | Posted by REDIAL at 2010-03-14 11:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.globalresearch.ca

scribblguy.50megs.com

From Bob's first link:

The technology to enable cell phone calls from high-altitude airline flights was not created until 2004.

Yeah, well, it wasn't a high-altitude flight that hit the Pentagon. Unless the Pentagon is 10,000 stories high.

The reasons they tell you not to use your cell phone on the plane are at follows:
(1) you're often flying over a part of the country with no cell service
(2) you're traveling at 600 MPH and handing a call from cell to cell that quickly cannot be done reliably (or at least it couldn't in 2001).
(3) (just a conspiracy theory of mine) you're an annoying asshole on a cell phone, but fortunately the airlines are conscientious enough to not hold the rest of the passengers hostage to be forced to listen to your stupid conversation.

Bush had nothing to do with the planning. His job was to do nothing, and let it happen.

boob's lunacy has no bounds. Not only does he know 9-11 was a conspiracy, he pretends to know EXACTLY how complicit GWB was in 9-11.

"Why would he lie about seeing the first plane that hit the Pentagon?"

How many other planes hit the Pentagon? Let me guess, another critical thinking moment?

#66...

As well as it would only take 10 people to pull it off.

This is the part which no sense what-so-ever, 19 die-hard Moslems decide to sacrifice themselves for a secret US plot to suck us into Iraq. Oh yeah, I'm sure that happened.

Hell i'de believe cowardly draft dodging war criminals over a Navy SEAL any day...jackass sheeple.

...more than 1,000 architects and engineers...

You could have 100,000 architects and engineers. No logic or even facts are enough to counter the incredible stupidity of the american sheeple. See all posts above for irrefutable proof...

"give me thirty people with high connections in the US govt and the israeli mossad and 3 or 4 manchurian muslim candidates and i can pull of 9-11."

So 33-34 people?

LOL.

It would take hundreds if not thousands before the event.

And then most of the hardhats and emergency workers who volunteered to do the cleanup would have had to be brought in too so they wouldn't turn over any of the demo equipment they found in the rubble.

"...more than 1,000 architects and engineers...

You could have 100,000 architects and engineers. No logic or even facts are enough to counter the incredible stupidity of the american sheeple. See all posts above for irrefutable proof..."

100,000 "experts" with no evidence to support an alternate version of events (saying the official story couldn't happen is not the same as supplying evidence of another version of events) isn't as convincing as you want to pretend. When there are easily 100,000 other "experts" who say the exact opposite and there is evidence to support their version of events, your "experts" aren't convincing at all.

For some conspiracy theorists, this isn't about facts or even 9/11. Its just about a need to be in the know compared to all the stupid "sheeple" out there. Obviously, you are such a person. If you need to be in a special club who is "better" than everyone else, join the Free Masons because this conspiracy crap is just silly.

No event in human history that is large and changes the world will ever be free of conspiracy theories. It is how some people deal with things. It is no deeper or foolish than saying it is "G-d's will" as both G-d's Will and the mysterious THEY of conspiracy both remove the random and pointless nature of such events.

No logic or even facts are enough to counter the incredible stupidity of the american sheeple. See all posts above for irrefutable proof...

Especially considering that these anti-truthers are the same fools that think there is no such thing as global warming going on. In an effort to be popular with their peers, they all just follow along to keep the status quo. It all goes back to their religious training which forbids anyway members to question the tenants of their faiths. I remember when I went to parochial school, the last thing anyone would ever do in religion class is question the priests that preached this crap. I did once and not only was I labeled a heretic and chastised before the entire class, but I became very unpopular with the students who were given authority to discipline the others as was the practice in the Catholic schools. We were all constantly corralled by peer pressure. This is the same way our government now works.

#73 | Posted by Sully

No.

The issue is not that the "truthers" can explain a vast conspiracy. The issue is that scientific people, with scientific brains, that understand something about Newtonian Physics (like something called "gravity") see things that make no sense. WTC 7 is the most glaring example. No plane hit it, or do you dispute that? High-res photos from military aircraft show that WTC 4 and 5 blocked the falling debris from the towers (WTC 1 and 2) from doing much damage to WTC 7. So, it doesn't make sense that debris from WTC 1 and/or 2 destablized WTC7's structure. Yet, in the late afternoon of 9/11/2001, for the first time in modern civil engineering history, WTC7 not only collapsed, but fell into its own footprint at freefall speed.

But since these propeller heads cannot explain any vast conspiracy, we must ignore the science. Hilarious.

But of course, Oswald was the lone gunman. Believe it or you are a conspiracy nut. And if you believe that Oswald was not the lone gunman, than you must also believe in the Illiminati, alien abduction, Area 51, blah, blah, blah...

But, I gave up on the 9/11 thing long ago. If there was some conspiracy, and I'm not saying there was, they can count on a dumb public to fleece. And quite frankly, I find this whole thing side-splitting hilarious.

"But of course, Oswald was the lone gunman."

There isn't a shred of evidence that proves otherwise.

Charles Whitman was a lone gunman, too.
There is nothing a dedicated Marine and his rifle cannot accomplish!

I do have a theroy about 9-11 and it does involve a tiny tin foil cap, but nothing like the far-reaching paranoia that I see. Worst case- I think they knew SOMETHING was going to happen, but did not know when or how big and did very little to stop it because they felt a minor attack could be used to justify things they wanted to do (per PNAC), but this attack was much larger than they expected and they gave the terrorists far too much room to work.

Worst case- I think they knew SOMETHING was going to happen...

So, you have already resigned yourself to look no further for the truth, like any good little Christian boy should.

you have already resigned yourself to look no further for the truth,

What?

like any good little Christian boy should.

I am not Christian.

Two strikes in one post.

"So, it doesn't make sense that debris from WTC 1 and/or 2 destablized WTC7's structure."

Based on what? You're referencing still photographs that document a split second in time as evidence that large debris didn't hit the building over the course of hours.

Also, why knock down WTC 7 in a "suspicious" manner and leave other buildings standing as part of the conspiracy? What value would blowing up that building add to the goals of the plotters? Its not like the American public needed WTC 7 to fall in addition to the towers before they would be pissed off about the attack.....

It strikes me as absurd that super-geniuses who could plan and cover up a faked attack of this magnitude would knock an extra building over for the hell of it. Or that they would do all this to justify invading Iraq and then not implicate Iraq in the attack in any way. They went through all this trouble and then had to tell more lies about WMDs... That defies common sense.

Huffington post is nothing more than a shill for the democrat mafia.

They delete posts that refute their bullshit same as reichwing sites do.

intellectual trash.

I don't care about the how, I guess I understand the why, who cares about the what, I just wanna know when we can stop terrorizing our people and the rest of the worlds people over this shit.

PNAC really makes it hard to ignore the conspiracy theories and it has fuel probably 99.99999% of them, but PNAC is fact and those people were in office when the exact event they said we would need to justify invading Iraq happened and it is exactly what they did.


The only conspiracy that should be investigated is the fact that a self-declared 'War President' did NOTHING for 7 WHOLE MINUTES after simply being told 'The Nation Is Under Attack'.

Yeah....a real man of ACTION!!

Bush, The Cowards President.

I am not Christian.

I never said you were, I said 'like' a good little Christian boy. As for the first part, it's absolutely true.

Two strikes for you, not me.

It strikes me as absurd that super-geniuses who could plan and cover up a faked attack of this magnitude would knock an extra building over for the hell of it.

That's because you obviously don't know what was in that building. Neither does the rest of the country except for the people running it.

BTW... it was considered the one of safest buildings in the city and in fact was built like a fortress. It was 47 stories and all steel and concrete. Do you really believe it burned to the ground in 6 hours?

From Bob's first link:

The technology to enable cell phone calls from high-altitude airline flights was not created until 2004.

Yeah, well, it wasn't a high-altitude flight that hit the Pentagon. Unless the Pentagon is 10,000 stories high.

The reasons they tell you not to use your cell phone on the plane are at follows:
(1) you're often flying over a part of the country with no cell service
(2) you're traveling at 600 MPH and handing a call from cell to cell that quickly cannot be done reliably (or at least it couldn't in 2001).
(3) (just a conspiracy theory of mine) you're an annoying asshole on a cell phone, but fortunately the airlines are conscientious enough to not hold the rest of the passengers hostage to be forced to listen to your stupid conversation.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2010-03-15 08:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

The point was that Ted Olson lied about receiving the calls from his wife on the day she died. Any comments relative to the point?

There isn't a shred of evidence that proves otherwise.

#77 | Posted by nullifidian at 2010-03-15 02:38 PM

If I remember right, the best marksman couldn't have pulled it off according to what the government report contends.

The point was that Ted Olson lied about receiving the calls from his wife on the day she died. Any comments relative to the point?.

Yes. The argument that the call was technologically impossible due to altitude doesn't stand up. The aircraft was not at high altitude.

I'm not saying he wasn't lying, but you are certain he lied based on... what? Do you have her cell phone records or something?

Tell you what: Don't even answer that. Instead, answer your own rhetorical question:

I'm sure all you people know why Ted Olson lied about receiving phone call from his wife on the day she died.

Do tell.

Yes. The argument that the call was technologically impossible due to altitude doesn't stand up. The aircraft was not at high altitude.

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2010-03-15 08:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

That wasn't even close to the point. You should have read the links before you made yourself look so ignorant.

The FBI rejects Olsons claims.

American Airlines rejects Olsons claims.

The Pentagon rejects Olsons claims.

www.globalresearch.ca

I'd post the other link for additional backing, but it has way too many words for you. See if you can handle one link.

US Govt & Israel:Running 911 Scared!!!

The Prosecution of the US Govt (on the mountains of evidence) for instigating 911 will of course also implicate Israel's primary role in all of it and so directly lead to the destruction of both the US Govt and the State of Israel!!!

"Without the alleged calls from Barbara Olson, there is no evidence that Flight 77 returned to Washington."

Really? I almost hate to ask, but where did the plane supposedly end up?

Really? I almost hate to ask, but where did the plane supposedly end up?

#94 | Posted by REDIAL at 2010-03-15 09:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

It SUPPOSEDLY endfed up in a 15 foot hole in the Pentagon where all the bodies evaporated, including most of the plane, including the black box, carrying numerous military personnel who made no attempt to take over the plane even though Ted Olson told his wife of the WTC planes, and no other passengers made any calls.

It SUPPOSEDLY endfed up in a 15 foot hole in the Pentagon where all the bodies evaporated, including most of the plane...
#95 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2010-03-15 09:14 PM

Is this the same plane when you said Bush lied about seeing the first plane hit the Pentagon?

Is this the same plane when you said Bush lied about seeing the first plane hit the Pentagon?

#96 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-15 09:19 PM | Reply | Flag

WTF are you talking about? How many lanes do you think hit the Pentagon.

I didn't say Bush lied about seeing the first plane hitting the WTC. I showed him lying about seeing the first plane hitting the WTC.

www.youtube.com

WTF are you talking about? How many lanes do you think hit the Pentagon.

#97 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2010-03-15 09:27 PM

You tell me Mr. Critical Thinker? I am simply repeating what you wrote.

(Why would he lie about seeing the first plane that hit the Pentagon? He thought everyone saw the first plane---just like he did.)

#56 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2010-03-14 09:02 PM

"Without the alleged calls from Barbara Olson, there is no evidence that Flight 77 returned to Washington."

Well, except for the hole in the side of the Pentagon, and the aircraft debris all over the lawn.

The FBI rejects Olsons claims.
American Airlines rejects Olsons claims.
The Pentagon rejects Olsons claims.

The FBI said Barbara Olson's phone didn't make any calls. Perhaps she borrowed the phone from "Unknown Caller" whose phone was obviously working, and, according to your link, made five calls. I can imagine with little difficulty Barbara Olson approaching the Unknown Caller and saying "My husband is a high-ranking Federal official, may I use your phone to call him and tell him what's going on?"

AA simply said there were no airphones on the aircraft. Ted's confusion about airphones is easily explained. Ted could mistakenly assume his wife, calling from Unknown Caller's phone, was calling from an airphone when his wife's cell phone number didn't show up on the display.

The Pentagon rejects only the assertion that the pilots themselves were herded to the back, and they do so without any evidentiary support. Perhaps Barbara simply saw a number of uniformed aircraft personnel in the herd, and erroneously concluded the pilots were among them. Or perhaps the Pentagon is incorrect.

Snoofy rejects Buffalo Bob's claims.

even though Ted Olson told his wife of the WTC planes, and no other passengers made any calls.

Your own link contradicts this, dummy.
911research.wtc7.net

#98 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-15 09:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

At least you answered the question. I made a mistake and said Pentagon instead of WTC. Now---how about Bush lying about seeing the first plane hitting the WTC?

#101...

Lying? Nah. Just a bad speaker.

And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane "had" hit the tower --

when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly ("flew") into the first building. There was a TV set on.

I was sitting in my truck putting my golf shoes on at 5:45 am when the news station said a small plane flew into the WTC. When I went into the clubhouse they had a tv on showing the building billowing smoke. Now if Bush knew it was a jet why would he say plane?

The FBI said Barbara Olson's phone didn't make any calls. Perhaps she borrowed the phone from "Unknown Caller" whose phone was obviously working, and, according to your link, made five calls. I can imagine with little difficulty Barbara Olson approaching the Unknown Caller and saying "My husband is a high-ranking Federal official, may I use your phone to call him and tell him what's going on?"

1. There would have been a record of that call---there is no record. Not with any cell phone company--not with the airline

2. There was no reason for her to call collect--she had his direct number--she had called him on it before she got on the plane.

3. You can't call collect from a cell phone.

4. You can't call collect from a seat phone.

5. There were no seat phones on that flight.

6. No other passengers made calls to their loved ones.

AA simply said there were no airphones on the aircraft. Ted's confusion about airphones is easily explained. Ted could mistakenly assume his wife, calling from Unknown Caller's phone, was calling from an airphone when his wife's cell phone number didn't show up on the display.

1. There would have been a record of that call---there is no record. Not with any cell phone company--not with the airline

2. There was no reason for her to call collect--she had his direct number--she had called him on it before she got on the plane.

3. You can't call collect from a cell phone.

4. You can't call collect from a seat phone.

5. There were no seat phones on that flight.

6. No other passengers made calls to their loved ones.

The Pentagon rejects only the assertion that the pilots themselves were herded to the back, and they do so without any evidentiary support. Perhaps Barbara simply saw a number of uniformed aircraft personnel in the herd, and erroneously concluded the pilots were among them. Or perhaps the Pentagon is incorrect.

1. Olson said his wife asked what she should tell the pilots.

2. "According to Olson, his wife had said that "all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers."12 This is an inherently implausible scenario. We are supposed to believe that 60-some people, including the two pilots, were held at bay by three or four men (one or two of the hijackers would have been in the cockpit) with knives and boxcutters. This scenario becomes even more absurd when we realize that the alleged hijackers were all small, unathletic men (the 9/11 Commission pointed out that even "[t]he so-called muscle hijackers actually were not physically imposing, as the majority of them were between 5'5" and 5'7" in height and slender in build"13), and that the pilot, Charles "Chic" Burlingame, was a weightlifter and a boxer, who was described as "really tough" by one of his erstwhile opponents.14 Also, the idea that Burlingame would have turned over the plane to hijackers was rejected by his brother, who said: "I don't know what happened in that cockpit, but I'm sure that they would have had to incapacitate him or kill him because he would have done anything to prevent the kind of tragedy that befell that airplane."15

www.globalresearch.ca

Snoofy rejects Buffalo Bob's claims.

They aren't my claims.

1. The FBI makes a claim.

2. American Airlines makes a claim.

3. The pentagon makes a claim.

#99 | Posted by snoofy at 2010-03-15 09:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

#102 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-15 10:06 PM | Reply | Flag

Your post makes absolutely no sense. You should have looked at the video.
1. There was no TV outside the classroom.

2. There was no video of the first plane hitting the WTC until the next day(for the rest of the world).

3. Bush supposedly HEARD about the second plane while sitting in the classroom.

4. He said he SAW the first plane hit the Pentagon before he went into the classroom.

How to call collect from a cell phone

I kid around now and then, borrowing a cell phone and whispering, "directory assistance for Jakarta" just loud enough so the owner of the phone can hear.

Just curious about Renee May?

9:11 a.m. - Renee May, a flight attendant, attempted to call her parents but the call did not connect. A second call at 9:12 a.m. did go through. May told her mother that the flight was being hijacked by six individuals who had moved them -- her mother was not sure if Renee meant all the passengers or just the crew -- to the rear of the plane. May asked her mother to contact American Airlines and make sure they knew about the hijacking, giving three phone numbers in Northern Virginia to call. Renee May's parents subsequently (sometime between 9:12 a.m. and the time of the crash) reached an American Airlines employee at Reagan National Airport, providing information about the hijacking, along with Renee's phone number on board and the flight number. Initially, the employee thought May's mother was talking about the aircraft that had crashed into the World Trade Center. May's mother reiterated that she was speaking of Flight 77, which was still in the air. At some point after completing the call, the employee was told to evacuate the building. On her way out, she heard explosions from the direction of the Pentagon, though she was not sure that it was the crash of an aircraft. She informed a flight services manager at the airport about her conversation with May's parents.
www.debunk911myths.org

#104 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2010-03-15 10:13 PM

It makes no sense to you. Bush said there was a TV in the limo, he also said there was a tv in the classroom. Like I said, he was a bad speaker and omitted "had" and used fly instead of "flew"... Like I asked earlier, why would he say a plane if he knew it was a jet?

#107 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-15 10:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

May was not a passenger--she was a flight attendant. No other passenger made a call that day.

"Now---how about Bush lying about seeing the first plane hitting the WTC?"
#101 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2010-03-15 09:55 PM | Reply

He didn't lie--he misspoke (and of course Bush NEVER mispoke before or after 9/11). He simply meant to say that he saw the AFTERMATH of the 1st plane hitting the WTC; just as the rest of the country saw that morning, the smoke of the 1st tower's fire.
Let me be as clear as it is possible to be concerning that day. There is NOTHING in the official story that is physically impossible. There are many aspects that could be considered unlikely; but there is nothing that is impossible. Certainly, there is nothing that is as impossible as the conspiracy theories that I have heard. The number of people that would be involved that would have to be, to this day, silent; the rigging of three buildings to be brought down by controlled demolition without anyone noticing; the impact of the planes at the precise point necessary to trigger the demolitions; the illogic of going through the trouble and expense of rigging the buildings to look precisely like a controlled demolition when it would be far easier and more logical to have them topple as expected. Need I go on? The fact that none of that makes more sense than the official explanation, to me, supports the conclusion of the investigation.
And by the way, when it comes to logical conclusions, to me nothing is more telling than George Bush's reaction to that day. To me, looking at the President's reaction to the news, it clearly shows a person completely unprepared for what he was told at that moment. As I have stated before, if someone had prior knowledge of what was about to occur, they certainly would have prepared the President better than what we saw that day. They would have had George Bush immediately jump up and take command of the government, proving without a doubt what a great leader and wartime president we had. Instead, we saw exactly what we had that morning; a human being, totally stunned by the events, as was his entire staff, and needing several minutes to just comprehend what was going on and to figure out a response. The people we saw in that classroom were no different than any other people on this planet, needing time to figure out how to respond to a totally unpredicted and unprecidented situation. Certainly not the reaction of people who were warned in advance of what was happening.
You have questions? Fine, I have no problem with that. But I have questions, too, and they are far more rational and simple than yours, and they point in an entirely different direction.

May was not a passenger--she was a flight attendant. No other passenger made a call that day.
#109 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2010-03-15 10:32 PM

So what, according to your link the technology was not available. How could Renee May make the call and Barbara Olson couldn't?

(From Bob's first link:
The technology to enable cell phone calls from high-altitude airline flights was not created until 2004.)

#105 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-03-15 10:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

1. Try it--see if it works. It won't.

2. Even if it did work---why would she call collect to any other number other than her husbands private number? If she had to call collect, and was able to do so---she would have called the number most likely to have someone there that would accept the charges, not to the front office.

3. There would have been a record of a collect call--there is no record of any such call.

4. Why make a collect call on a cell phone anyway---just call the number and save the time. I doubt whoever she borrowed the phone from would have thought they would get stiffed for the bill---or cared.

5. Whoever she borrowed the phone from could have made a call themselves. No other passenger made any calls.

At about 9:38 AM, a twin-engine jetliner flew into the Pentagon and exploded, according to numerous eyewitnesses on the ground. The NTSB places the time of impact of Flight 77 into the Pentagon at 9:37:45. A Minnesota National Guard C-130 that had just taken off from nearby Andrews Air Force Base followed the jetliner in the seconds before it crashed. The pilot of the C-130, who described the plane as either a 757 or 767, provided the following account.

It was like coming up to an intersection. When air traffic control asked me if we had him in sight, I told him that was an understatement - by then, he had pretty much filled our windscreen. Then he made a pretty aggressive turn so he was moving right in front of us, a mile and a half, two miles away.
...
They told us to turn and follow that aircraft - in 20-plus years of flying, I've never been asked to do something like that. With all of the East Coast haze, I had a hard time picking him out.
The next thing I saw was the fireball. It was huge. I told Washington the airplane has impacted the ground. Shook everyone up pretty good. I told them the approximate location was close to the Potomac. I figured he'd had some in-flight emergency and was trying to get back on the ground to Washington National. Suddenly, I could see the outline of the Pentagon. It was horrible. I told Washington this thing has impacted the west side of the Pentagon. 8
911research.wtc7.net

He didn't lie--he misspoke.

#110 | Posted by hawk at 2010-03-15 10:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Look at the video---he had details of seeing the plane BEFORE he went into the classroom. He had details of seeing it on a TV before he went itno the classroom. He had details of what he said when he saw it before he went into the classroom. He had details of being whisked away from the TV before he went into the classroom.

This was the most important day in Bushs Presidency. That he had such details only days after the event shows him to be lying. Bush never misspoke on any other subject like that. Never created a whole series of memories like that.

"Look at the video---he had details of seeing the plane BEFORE he went into the classroom. He had details of seeing it on a TV before he went itno the classroom. He had details of what he said when he saw it before he went into the classroom. He had details of being whisked away from the TV before he went into the classroom."

So did I. It was on every news station. I thought the exact same thing about the pilot.

"It SUPPOSEDLY endfed up in a 15 foot hole in the Pentagon where all the bodies evaporated, including most of the plane..."

So where did it REALLY end up?

"So where did it REALLY end up?"
#116 | Posted by REDIAL at 2010-03-15 11:03 PM | R

And you are our grand prize winner with the question of the millennium.
You see, this is exactly where the entire chain of events in the conspiracy theories falls apart in my opinion. Eyewitnesses say, and there is physical evidence to support, that the plane hit the ground before the Pentagon strike and began to break apart before it struck the building, which would logically explain why the hole was not quite as large as it should be.
Instead, the conspiracy theory goes, an entire flight and its passengers were made to disappear, and a missile (totally divergent from the events of that day) was used to hit the Pentagon. Why a missile instead of an airplane (the apparent weapon of choice of that day) is never explained, or even hinted at, especially when you have one, hikacked and ready to go, to use.
You ask, why aren't we questioning the official story. I ask, what conceivable reason do we have to question it? Give me a more rational, logical answer, and I'll consider it.

#102 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-15 10:06 PM

"I was sitting there, and my Chief of Staff -- well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on..."

And all "jetliners" are planes...

GWB couldn't have seen the "jet-plane" hit the first tower, there was no video of that...

He explicitly said (and I quote from transcripts provided by Whitehouse.gov): "when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on"...

Not that I think this is any kind of smoking gun, but it does raise questions...

Have we got to the part where all you people rant on about how 9/11 couldn't be an inside job because there is no way to contain the information, and it would've come out by now. This statement in and of itself is naive. How many soldiers do you think the US employs who would never "kill & tell". The CIA and the Marine Corps are filled with guys who would do damn near anything and never tell a soul; you ever hear the "joke": "I'd tell you but I'd have to kill you"? It's not a "joke" for guys like this...

This isn't even mentioning Blackwater and all the other mercenaries (with ZERO compunction toward killing Americans) that Bush Co had at his disposal...

As a person who has studied the events surrounding 9/11 since shortly after the smoke cleared, I just have to chuckle at all the propaganda filled bullshit floating around...

Whether or not 9/11 was an inside job, the "Official Story" is just that; a "story". And, not even a good one...

I mean, I know that none of you are aware of this, but EVERY SINGLE one of the "reports" put out by "independent review" were "investigated by teams headed by DOD, ex DOD and/or DOD contractors. The engineering firm who put out the first one has been awarded the billion+ dollar contract for the new "FREEDOM TOWER"...

Funny, funny shit...Just bury those heads and keep screaming "LALALALALALA!!!"....

Also, the idea that Burlingame would have turned over the plane to hijackers was rejected by his brother
This is probably the weakest thing in this thread. His brother is not an impartial judge of the man's character, and has obvious reasons for trying to portray his kin as more heroic than not. He wasn't there. His comment is purely speculative.

Whoever she borrowed the phone from could have made a call themselves. No other passenger made any calls.
What about "Unknown Caller" who made five calls?
911research.wtc7.net

#117 | Posted by hawk at 2010-03-15 11:24 PM
***"Eyewitnesses say, and there is physical evidence to support, that the plane hit the ground before the Pentagon strike and began to break apart before it struck the building, which would logically explain why the hole was not quite as large as it should be."

Please explain to me where the 12 foot titanium rotor blades are in the wreckage. I, and many others, have examined those photos (ad neuseum) and have never found anything even resembling the 12 foot rotor blades. Plus, we are talking about a fully loaded airliner which started to break up prior to hitting the Pentagon (which would have reduced the impact from nearly inelastic to very elastic, thereby reducing the energy of the impact over time), where did all the debris go?

***"Instead, the conspiracy theory goes, an entire flight and its passengers were made to disappear, and a missile (totally divergent from the events of that day) was used to hit the Pentagon. Why a missile instead of an airplane (the apparent weapon of choice of that day) is never explained, or even hinted at, especially when you have one, hikacked and ready to go, to use."

Because, as many expert pilots have stated: the maneuver necessary to bring the plane from 23,000' to 14' above the ground at cruising speed would be nearly impossible. And, that's from "EXPERT PILOTS", not some jack-off who had just learned how to keep a Cessna level and on course...

The other thing that I found interesting is that the "witnesses" on the freeway said that the plane went right over their heads at nearly 400MPH, coming out of a dive, in full arrest, approximately 50 feet overhead... The thrust from the turbines from a jetliner coming in at cruising speed in full throttle arrest would have swept ALL of those vehicles off the road and made stew out of all those witnesses...

***"You ask, why aren't we questioning the official story. I ask, what conceivable reason do we have to question it? Give me a more rational, logical answer, and I'll consider it."

The reason you don't question the "Official Theory", is simply because you haven't looked into it very hard...

So... what happened to the plane?

And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."

Now if you add the word "had" hit the tower, would there be this ridiculous conspiracy? Keep in mind the first time I heard anything was on the radio at 5:45 AM and the news was reporting that a small plane had hit the tower. He also said "there's one terrible pilot" which is consistent with a small plane, right? He never said he saw it live, it was in the past tense.

#77 | Posted by nullifidian

Which of the following does not belong?
(a) hammer
(b) nullfidian
(c) cupcake
(d) chisel

Answer: (c) A cupcake is not a tool.

#122 | Posted by REDIAL at 2010-03-16 12:29 AM
***"So... what happened to the plane?"

How the "F" am I supposed to know???

"The other thing that I found interesting is that the "witnesses" on the freeway said that the plane went right over their heads at nearly 400MPH, coming out of a dive, in full arrest, approximately 50 feet overhead..."

So the pilot of the C-130 who was directed by air traffic control to follow was lying? Or in on the conspiracy?

#123 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-16 12:29 AM

Sorry Crispee, now you are misquoting Bush's statement...

The following is the ACTUAL transcript of his statement from the White House website:

"I was sitting there, and my Chief of Staff -- well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on..."

Now, if you want to debate facts I'm fine with that, but let's not skew the conversation into utter bullshit. Please, it's hard enough to debate this subject with out it turning into a feces fest as is (you know as well as I do that this is true)...

#126 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-16 12:35 AM
***"So the pilot of the C-130 who was directed by air traffic control to follow was lying? Or in on the conspiracy?"

There is absolutely no way I could know that information...

#124 | Posted by Newyawker at 2010-03-16 12:30 AM

FF...

I'm going to use that and call it my own...

;~}

"There was a TV set on..."

What was the TV showing? That a plane had flown into the tower.

I wonder if the reason there's no decent footage of 77 is it was shot down, and the government doesn't want people to know our government would kill its own people when deemed necessary.

***"So... what happened to the plane?"

How the "F" am I supposed to know???

#125 | Posted by Capt_Of_Uranus

Sorry... I just though that since you've "studied the events surrounding 9/11 since shortly after the smoke cleared" you might have some insight.

Never mind.

"Sorry Crispee, now you are misquoting Bush's statement..."

Not misquoting, just claiming Bush misspoke.

#131 | Posted by snoofy at 2010-03-16 12:50 AM

The C-130 pilot was close enough to have seen anything shoot it down.

What about "Unknown Caller" who made five calls?
911research.wtc7.net

#120 | Posted by snoofy at 2010-03-16 12:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

1. Where is the record of such calls?

2. All calls from cell phones have records.

3. Those calls have nothing do do with Ted Olson lying.

4. Collect calls would have a record.

5. Just because you have questions, doesn't mean you have answers. It just means you can't answer the questions. That means there should be another investigation that answers all the questions.

1. Where is the record of such calls?

2. All calls from cell phones have records.

Start with Renee May's mother who contacted the authorities.

And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."

Now if you add the word "had" hit the tower, would there be this ridiculous conspiracy? Keep in mind the first time I heard anything was on the radio at 5:45 AM and the news was reporting that a small plane had hit the tower. He also said "there's one terrible pilot" which is consistent with a small plane, right? He never said he saw it live, it was in the past tense.

#123 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-16 12:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

At the time Bush claims to have seen and said that, only one plane had hit the tower. The second plane hit the tower when he was in the classroom. Bush claims and had details of seeing the plane hit before he went into the classroom. He didn't misspeak, he lied. Absolutely no way around that simple fact.

Let's put him on a lie detector---let's put him under oath.

"Bush claims and had details of seeing the plane hit before he went into the classroom."

Is it really that hard to accept he was sitting in the limo watching the coverage before he went into the classroom?

#123 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-16 12:29 AM
***"He also said "there's one terrible pilot" which is consistent with a small plane, right?"

"There's one terrible pilot" is also consistant with a jetliner, blimp, hang glider, etc. as the "pilot" doesn't really define the "plane". Therefore, his statement doesn't really specify what type of craft was being flown...

***"He never said he saw it live, it was in the past tense"

And I quote, "well, first of all, --when we walked into the classroom--, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on..."

He had "seen", in past tense; prior to walking into the classrom, which would've been impossible at that point in time...

Here is another statement from GW: "I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card -- actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."" (continued) "But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower. America's under attack.""

So, I don't think there is any doubt about what he said, and when he said it...

However, I don't really see this as extremely damning evidence; just curious. and, definitely noteworthy...

#138 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-16 01:01 AM
***"Is it really that hard to accept he was sitting in the limo watching the coverage before he went into the classroom?"

Actually he was sitting outside the classroom (by his own account -on more than one occasion-) and "there was a TV set on". At the point in time (prior to going into the classroom) there had been no such footage aired... At least not on network news feeds (this has been documented many times)...

Just sayin...

;~}

"He had "seen", in past tense; prior to walking into the classrom, which would've been impossible at that point in time..."

Look I understand it creates questions by the verbage he used. But if he had said "flew" instead of fly, to me it looks like he misspoke. Just trying to use a little common sense.

"And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in:

Doesn't it make more sense he was sitting in the limo waiting to go in?

The C-130 pilot was close enough to have seen anything shoot it down.

I agree, but that doesn't mean he would have necessarily seen it. Maybe he blinked. :)

The lack of video footage in which a plane can be seen seems highly implausible, considering the amount of surveillance in and around the Pentagon. I feel like VDOT should have captured the aircraft on one of its I-395 traffic cams.

I don't doubt AA 77 hit the Pentagon. I find it hard to accept the best video record of it happening is the one that's been released, where you can't even see a plane at all.

#142 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-16 01:15 AM
***"Doesn't it make more sense he was sitting in the limo waiting to go in?"

Maybe, but that isn't what the President said...

And, doesn't it "make more sense" that Bush wouldn't need to have "interpreters" "clarify" the statements that he did make on the record that day (since the events were so clear in his mind)?

And, whether he saw somthing that was not yet on the wire, in his limo or outside a classroom, really isn't the point. The point is that he saw "the plane crash into the 1st tower"; images not aired anywhere else but where ever he was...

#143 | Posted by snoofy at 2010-03-16 01:36 AM
***"I don't doubt AA 77 hit the Pentagon. I find it hard to accept the best video record of it happening is the one that's been released, where you can't even see a plane at all."

Preaching to the choir here; can I get an "AMEN" brother...

#141 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-16 01:11 AM
***"Look I understand it creates questions by the verbage he used. But if he had said "flew" instead of fly, to me it looks like he misspoke. Just trying to use a little common sense."

I totally agree. Except of course that he said the same thing when recounting the event numerous times...


#143 | Posted by snoofy at 2010-03-16 01:36 AM

Not to mention all the surveillance footage from cameras in the area: gas stations, ATMs, convenience stores, etc. that were confiscated by the NSA at the time(documented repeatedly)...

And, of course all of the high resolution video images (that must exist) from the Pentagon itself, (since it is the most highly secured building on the face of the planet)...

Just trying to use a little common sense.

#141 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-16 01:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

Then use it. Before he had walked into the classroom, only one plane had hit. There was no way he could have seen that plane hit.

Is it really that hard to accept he was sitting in the limo watching the coverage before he went into the classroom?

#138 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-03-16 01:01 AM | Reply | Flag

That isn't what he said---he said he saw the first plane hit the tower from outside the classroom. There was no video of any plane hitting the tower before 9:02:54 when flight 175 hit the South Tower and Bush was already in the classroom.

911 Timeline

Bush 911 Timeline

Simple logic ..if Bush people blew up the world trade center ...he surely would have found weapons of mass destruction as well. It would be 100 times easier to plant some yellow cake in Iraq than it would be to detonate the towers.
peace
you Truthers read what i wrote 10 times and then wake up.
Darkstar

No secret is safe for long in Washington. For something the magnitude of a 9/11 to be executed...

I mean, there are so many people who'd have to be involved in such a plot. And surely some of those either directly or indirectly involved would have tons and tons of evidence or expert testimony to refute Dubya's storyline.

It would be 100 times easier to plant some yellow cake in Iraq than it would be to detonate the towers.

They (Cheney) tried planting WMD evidence in Iraq. They were going to covertly plant some WMD stuff they had staged in Turkey.

Valerie Plame, in the normal course of her counter-terrorism work at the CIA got wind of what was going on, so as a damage control maneuver they had to "out" her.

Why has even the ADL become so defensive about the mere discussion of 9-11?

www.adl.org

www.adl.org

Enough already! If these conspiracy theorist nut jobs want us to believe them then they must provide some evidence that shows this to be the case. Not a single bit of explosives has been found at any of the sites. Not one blasting cap or a single charge has ever been discovered, yet they want us to believe that the buildings were blown up.

Why has even the ADL become so defensive about the mere discussion of 9-11?

Because blaming Mossad for the attack is being used by many Supremest groups as a way to further demonize Israel and Jews world-wide.

Don't forget that every single one of the hundreds of people who would have had to have been privy to information about blowing up the towers, would have also have been okay with knowing that they would be responsible for killing thousands of people. That's a lot of mass murderers. It just doesn't add up.

If these conspiracy theorist nut jobs want us to believe them then they must provide some evidence that shows this to be the case.

Don't you know... they covered up the evidence. But never fear... the conspiracy theorist discerns the truth in the absence of evidence by consulting youtube. The conspiracy theorist can reveal the truth to you in the form of an insipid argument from ignorance, but only if you don't believe the lies that they have told you. Don't worry, if the conspiracy theory seems outlandish to you, it is because they have educated you too well. You must learn to abandon common sense, as it is a side effect of their propaganda. The more anyone knows about a given subject matter, the less trustworthy they are.

"Only in the light of total ignorance will thine eyes see the truth!"
-The Conspiracist's Creed

I don't care HOW the buildings came down. Except maybe building 7.

Pretty much THIS.

Spud's convinced that 9/11 wasn't a massive global conspiracy. It was not a false flag operation in which the US blew up it's own WTCs. The scope of the thing would be too massive to be kept secret this long.

That noted, believing in the government account of 9/11 is equally ridiculous. The 9/11 commission was a cover up, much like the Warren commission, much more so than it was any kind of honest attempt to ascertain the facts regarding what happened that fateful day.

There are basically three camps on the 9/11 theory.

The official government version, the LIHOP crowd and the MIHOP crowd.

The MIHOP (or Made It Happen On Purpose) crowd allege a conspiracy too big to be covered up in Spud's estimation.

The Government story is an ass-covering exercise first and foremost.

Between these two extremes is the LIHOP (or Let It Happen On Purpose) crowd.

/That's the one Spud is in, btw.

That theory alleges that the BushCO government and many other intelligence agencies around the globe (but principally the Mossad) knew well in advance what was coming and did nothing to prevent it.

The fact that WT7 fell into it's own footprint in a manner eerily similar to that of a controlled demolition despite not taking a hit on 9/11 is the main piece of evidence there.

/Aside from the PNAC "pearl harbor like" motive thing.

The LIHOP theory states that Lucky Larry Silverstein had bought a money pit and was doomed to take major losses on his purchase (bought on margin, btw) before the collapse made him wealthy beyond the dreams of kings.

The LIHOP theory suggests that Larry got tipped off to the attack (presumably by the Mossad) and rigged the WT7 with thermite in order to blow it up during all the chaos.

Despite all the digs at Jesse V on this thread Spud can't diss him too bad here.

Why not?

Cos of something he sed once.

"Give me Dick Cheney, a waterboard and one hour and I'll get him to confess to the Sharon Tate murders."

Hard to be hating on a guy who sez stuff like that.

Be Well.

Hard to be hating on a guy who sez stuff like that.

Be Well.

#157 | Posted by dethspud

Spud,

I thought Ventura was a rogue Teabagger.

Believers have none of the answers that truthers ask----yet they still believe. How does that work? No explosives? Then don't believe your lying eyes as you can SEE the explosions travel UP the sides of WTC 7 just before it collapses. Just close your eyes, click your heels together three times and keep saying---I believe---I believe--I believe.

www.youtube.com

www.youtube.com

I'll take LIHOP (and in accord with PNAC) but hold the thermite. 7 fell over or down or whatever after weakened by a raging fire for hours and debris from the big towers falling on it.

Though, it's certainly not unheard of for people to destroy their own property to collect the insurance payout.

This possibility I see as separable from the atatck of the twin towers. Maybe, just maybe though, if he knew the planes were coming, he could have rigged 7.

But he'd have to bank on the following:
Hijackings occurring as intended
Planes hitting 1 and 2 as intended
1 and 2 collapsing as intended
Chaos pursuant to all of the above so vast that the deliberate arson of 7 goes unnoticed, and evidence of the crime is never found.

Any one thing goes wrong, Silverstein spends his life in prison.

Buffalo: There have been many inconsistencies and unanswered questions.

Once one lie is exposed about 9-11, it should have lead a real investigator to probe other inconsistencies and require explanations which inevitably lead to other lies and distortions. That's investigation 101.

The probing didn't happen because the 9-11 investigation was a political white wash not an investigation. The media never pushed the investigation, just as they never pushed back against the Iraq War. Their interests were not then and are not now USA interests. 9-11 was the perfect motive for implementing the PNAC wet dream, of which Cheney and Bush were handed on a platter the cover to go after Iraq and secure Israel. If anyone thinks this was came about by pure coincidence you are very naieve.

Most telling of all was that Bush and Cheney were questioned together, not under oath, and their answers taken without transcript and notes except by their own people.

To quote cnn: Bush and Cheney did not testify before the panel -- they were not under oath and there was to be no recording made of the session nor a stenographer in the room.

The two members of the White House counsel's staff were expected to take notes during the session, and the commission members were also allowed to take handwritten notes.

www.cnn.com

#149 | Posted by darkstar74 at 2010-03-16 06:57 AM

Except no one was watching on 9/11, and the world was watching in Iraq; everyone was waiting for the Bush Administration to plant WMDs in Iraq...

#150 | Posted by OohRah at 2010-03-16 07:05 AM

SEE: #119 | Posted by Capt_Of_Uranus at 2010-03-15 11:58 PM

#153 | Posted by everlong at 2010-03-16 11:00 AM

When the government is the one doing the "investigating", and the government is the one in control of the "evidence" I.E. disposing of it/concealing it, one would think that most logical people would realize that hard evidence is going to be difficult to come by. Therefore, one has to examine the government's version of the events for inconsistencies, of which there are many...

#155 | Posted by everlong at 2010-03-16 11:05 AM

SEE: #119 | Posted by Capt_Of_Uranus at 2010-03-15 11:58 PM

#156 | Posted by ZombieHunter at 2010-03-16 11:24 AM
***"Don't you know... they covered up the evidence. But never fear... the conspiracy theorist discerns the truth in the absence of evidence by consulting youtube. The conspiracy theorist can reveal the truth to you in the form of an insipid argument from ignorance, but only if you don't believe the lies that they have told you. Don't worry, if the conspiracy theory seems outlandish to you, it is because they have educated you too well. You must learn to abandon common sense, as it is a side effect of their propaganda. The more anyone knows about a given subject matter, the less trustworthy they are."

When the ones "investigating" the crime are the same ones who "control the evidence", most logical people would realize that "hard evidence" might be difficult to come by...

The "insipid argument" is based solely on the discrepancies and flawed logic of the "Official Theory", this is why they sound so insipid...

And, "common sense" is what is used when one examines a version of events that doesn't add up. I realize that this subject is uncomfortable for most people, and I'm not trying to convert anyone, however when I look at the evidence, the official story and the events surrounding 9/11, I can come to no other conclusion (as a person who has researched the events leading up to, on and after 9/11 since shortly after the smoke cleared) other than Americans are being lied to in regards to 9/11.

Enough already! If these conspiracy theorist nut jobs want us to believe them then they must provide some evidence that shows this to be the case. Not a single bit of explosives has been found at any of the sites. Not one blasting cap or a single charge has ever been discovered, yet they want us to believe that the buildings were blown up.

How could you possibly know that? Every scrap of debris was removed and disposed of long before any experts were ever called in to investigate. There is no samples to test. The commission itself never tested for explosives because they were told it was not a possibility in the first place.

There is a pretty good read on the subject here:

www.serendipity.li

...The fact that WT7 fell into it's own footprint in a manner eerily similar to that of a controlled demolition despite not taking a hit on 9/11 is the main piece of evidence there....

"Give me Dick Cheney, a waterboard and one hour and I'll get him to confess to the Sharon Tate murders."

Hard to be hating on a guy who sez stuff like that.

Be Well.

#157 | Posted by dethspud

Best post in this thread.

#160 | Posted by snoofy at 2010-03-16 02:55 PM
***"Any one thing goes wrong, Silverstein spends his life in prison"

I think you're missing the point...

Before commenting on something, maybe try to understand what you're commenting about...

#132 | Posted by REDIAL at 2010-03-16 12:51 AM

Well, I do have some insight. I don't have all of the answers however. This is because I am a mere mortal, and (unfortunately) not omnipresent. I have researched 9/11; extensively. But, (alas), I am bound by the mortal coil, and am not all knowing...

Just a couple simple questions for you (since you are so convinced by the "Official Theory"):

1- Why doesn't the government release the video of the Pentagon attack? We all know it exists.
2- What possible motive could the government have for not doing so?

3- Why hasn't Obama with his Hope and Change and Transparency released it?

Didn't Jimmy Carter promise to release all the stuff the Gubmint had on UFOs? He never did. Lends me to believe they've got some juicy stuff. Or maybe it was just a Cold War thing and we couldn't let the Soviet know what sort of data collection capacity we even possessed.

I have an engineering Ph.D. and am one of the petition signers at www.ae911truth.org. Entertaining the possibility that at least one person reading this blog is both ignorant of the 9/11 truth and open to learning that truth, here are six facts that offer conclusive proof of explosive demolition. The need for a new, and this time proper, investigation cannot be rationally disputed. When you become convinced of the need for a new investigation please sign the petition at:
www.ae911truth.org

1. WTC-7 free-fall. The investigating govt agency, NIST, in their Draft Final Report said that the start of the fall was not at free-fall acceleration. In the subsequent technical briefing they said free-fall was impossible for a fire-caused collapse. At that briefing they were publicly challenged by High School physicis teacher David Chandler who had analyzed the video. In November 2008 the NIST Final Report acknowledged 2.25 seconds of pure free-fall after all. In order for the roofline to remain level and drop at free-fall, all 82 support columns needed to be removed simultaneously and precisely sequenced floor-by-floor over eight floors. The probability that the small office fires in that building could do so is 0. Google "NIST admits freefall" for more.

2. First responder reports of explosions. The New York Fire Department collected and archived audio histories from their first responders shortly after 9/11. The City of New York refused to release the histories to the public. After years of delay a court ruled for the New York Times' FOIA request and the tapes were released. In the tapes over 100 first responders reported hearing explosions and/or seeing flashes of light before or during the collapses. NIST ignores this evidence in their reports.
The transcripts are available here. Scroll to the bottom of the file.
www.journalof911studies.com

3. Nanothermite in the dust. NIST admits that they never checked the trade center dust for explosives. This is spite of fire investigation guidelines specifying this should be done. Last year an international team of scientists published a peer-reviewed paper in a scientific journal showing that nanothermite was present in the trade center dust. Nanothermite is a high tech incendiary explosive produced by U.S. military contractors. It produces very high temperatures capable of melting steel.
Here is a link to that paper:
www.bentham-open.org

4. Molten metal in the dust. The dust is full of iron spheres that are understood to be the remains of airborne molten iron. Molten iron is a byproduct of nanothermite reactions. Office fires and fires produced by jet fuel don't reach the heat capable of melting iron (or steel) so the molten iron is not from the building fires. NIST ignores this evidence in their reports.

5. Molten metal in the rubble piles. Many first responders and ground zero workers reported seeing molten metal under the debris piles for several weeks after 9/11. There is plenty of audio and video evidence for this. NIST claims that they could find no evidence of molten metal under the debris piles.

6. WTC-7 foreknowledge. Videos show first responders warning people away from building 7, that is was about to blow up, and then it did blow up. One guy reported hearing a count down on a radio just before the collapse, the radio guy warning everyone to run for their lives. There is written testimony too. How did these people know when WTC-7 was going to blow up?

Also see:
Patriots Question 9/11:
http://
www.patriotsquestion911.com

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