Well, Jefferson WAS a Communist.

I know the process would be controversial and there are those opposed to any federal involvement, but this speaks for having a national curriculum in public schools.

The US has rank poorly against the rest of the world.

What about all that talk of the founding fathers?
=============

Book burning reactionaries aka the GOP.

I...I...um...

Gee. I wonder why Texas is perceived as one of the most ignorant, uneducated places in the modern world?

They also replaced the word "capitalism" throughout their texts with the "free-enterprise system."

"Let's face it, capitalism does have a negative connotation," said one conservative member, Terri Leo. "You know, capitalist pig!' "
============

GoatSchlub and Deflec live there?

That seems a little extreme.

They are not done and nothing is final nor written in stone.

ar ar

The far Rightwing's ideological crusade will be the downfall of America as we know it.

Teachers in Texas will be required to cover the Judeo-Christian influences of the nation's Founding Fathers

Curriculum standards also will describe the U.S. government as a "constitutional republic," rather than "democratic"

and students will be required to study the decline in value of the U.S. dollar, including the abandonment of the gold standard.

LOL.

Whoa.

That's some pretty right wing radical shit, there.

Texas is perceived as one of the most ignorant, uneducated places in the modern world?

No its not.

Except maybe to a handful of worthless liberal pukes on the west coast.

Otherwise, its the place all kinds of people and businesses want to move to.

The far Leftwing's ideological crusade will be the downfall of America as we know it.

#3 | Posted by moder8

FTFY

Sorry I left you out, JakOffNow.

"Texas is perceived as one of the most ignorant, uneducated places in the modern world?

No its not."

Actually, it is. It's synonymous with strutting, ignorant, chest-pounding loudmouths and chickenshits who shoot people in the back and are afraid to walk in the woods without a gun.

#8 | Posted by nullifidian at 2010-03-12 08:16 PM | Reply | Flag: worthless liberal puke on the west coast.

I rest my case.

| Flag: worthless liberal puke on the west coast.

I rest my case.

#9 | Posted by Jak_Se_Mao

Wow. That must be one of your weakest retorts of all time, Jacque. I'm embarrassed for you.

Putting it in bold was a nice touch, though, Jacqueline.

Liberals don't understand the constitution, which is why they think the US is a democracy. And they don't understand economics, so there's no point in discussing things like inflation and fiat currency.

Theocratic right-wing lunatics. Cutting out Jefferson and the entire Enlightenment?

Fuck these Texans and anyone that supports them. I'm so sick of these right wing ideologues trying to edit history to give their views any credibility. Doing that just proves how bankrupt their ideas are in the first place.

They don't hold up to history. They don't hold up to the Founders ideals.

Here, you want to read what these morons did? Their "arguments" their votes?

I wonder if states can voluntarily band together in a non federalized kind of way in order to create buying power to compete against Texas.

Alamo

Hi Chris

Texans wanted slavery

Alamo shmalamo

Hi Chris

Texans wanted slavery

Alamo shmalamo

#16 | Posted by bruceaz at 2010-03-13 02:03 AM

Hi Bruce. So where've you've been lately?
Thought maybe you had gotten lost somewhere in the Arizona desert. lol

Texans wanted slavery

#16 | Posted by bruceaz at 2010-03-13 02:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

Never mind that the Civil War was only 150 fucking years ago ............. Texas had little to no slavery. It was a state's rights issue.

Hey, Bruce, you have some ancestors who, in 1243, were real assholes. Therefore, everyone today should regard you as an asshole.

And in the year 2525 (if man is still alive) your descendants should also be considered assholes. Because according to your standards, all offenses live in perpetuity.

FTA: Numerous attempts to add the names or references to important Hispanics throughout history also were denied, inducing one amendment that would specify that Tejanos died at the Alamo alongside Davy Crockett and Jim Bowie. Another amendment deleted a requirement that sociology students "explain how institutional racism is evident in American society."

Democrats did score a victory by deleting a portion of an amendment by Republican Don McLeroy suggesting that the civil rights movement led to "unrealistic expectations for equal outcomes."

Texas gets rids itself of racism through rampant revisionism?

Quite a feat.

Extremist activist conservatives have been quietly getting themselves voted onto school boards across the country for a while now and slowly slipping their partisan agenda into the classroom.

Do Not Want.

Be Well.

/Goat hasn't showed up to give his patented "Texas is no more racist than any other state" speech yet?
//Is he sick or sommat?

We don't need no stinking Jeffersonion Democracy.

---texas teabaggers---

McLeroy flipped through the pages and explained what he saw as the gaping holes in Darwin's theory. "I don't care what the educational political lobby and their allies on the left say," he declared at one point. "Evolution is hooey." This bled into a rant about American history. "The secular humanists may argue that we are a secular nation," McLeroy said, jabbing his finger in the air for emphasis. "But we are a Christian nation founded on Christian principles. The way I evaluate history textbooks is first I see how they cover Christianity and Israel. Then I see how they treat Ronald Reaganhe needs to get credit for saving the world from communism and for the good economy over the last twenty years because he lowered taxes."
===============

Texas removes the "hooey" standard from education.

From another board member...

"Cynthia Dunbar of Richmond rails against public education, which she dubs "tyrannical" and a "tool of perversion," and says sending kids to public school is like "throwing them into the enemy's flames."

another...

"In late 2007, the English language arts writing teams, made up mostly of teachers and curriculum planners, turned in the drafts they had been laboring over for more than two years. The ultraconservatives argued that they were too light on basics like grammar and too heavy on reading comprehension and critical thinking. "This critical-thinking stuff is gobbledygook," grumbled David Bradley, an insurance salesman with no college degree, who often acts as the faction's enforcer"
==========

Texas removes the gobbledgook" standard.

"Cynthia Dunbar of Richmond rails against public education, which she dubs "tyrannical" and a "tool of perversion," and says sending kids to public school is like "throwing them into the enemy's flames."

Letting these neanderfucks have any influence on U.S. textbooks is crazy. If Texas wants to commit educational suicide let them write and publish their own textbooks. Maybe somebody ought to remind these dipshits their state ranks 47th nationally in SAT scores.

"...they scrubbed the standards of any reference to the fact that the universe is roughly fourteen billion years old, because this time line conflicts with biblical accounts of creation...
they require students to evaluate various explanations for gaps in the fossil record and weigh whether natural selection alone can account for the complexity of cells. "Whoo-eey!" he told me. "We won the Grand Slam, and the Super Bowl, and the World Cup! Our science standards are light years ahead of any other state when it comes to challenging evolution!""
===========

Texas removes the "common sense" standard

"This critical-thinking stuff is gobbledygook,"

Now that is just too funny. Not sure what the fact that he has no college degree has to do with it though. Neither did Bill Gates till 2007 when Harvard decided they wanted an endowment. I have met plenty of college educated people who would agree Bradley and plenty who didn't go to college who would see what an idiotic statement this is.

Gee. I wonder why Texas is perceived as one of the most ignorant, uneducated places in the modern world?

#6 | Posted by moder8

Just a little hyperbole? Granted the public school system seems to be going to shit, but scientifically and health science wise, Texas remains a major leader.

"A party-line vote defeated an amendment ...that would have required students to study "the reason the founding fathers protected religious freedom in America by barring the government from promoting or disfavoring any particular religion above all others."
=============
Texas removes part of the "First Amendment from The Bill of Rights" but does require the study of "The "Second Amendment".

""This critical-thinking stuff is gobbledygook," grumbled David Bradley, an insurance salesman with no college degree, who often acts as the faction's enforcer"

These are the fuckers writing textbooks? This country is doomed.

I know the process would be controversial and there are those opposed to any federal involvement, but this speaks for having a national curriculum in public schools.

The US has rank poorly against the rest of the world.

#2 | Posted by mmike
================

Any agreement or disagreemnt?

It's obvious that the process is broken, these standard will be taught for up to ten years. Where does this leave the US students trying to complete in a highly competitive US let alone the world?

Maybe somebody ought to remind these dipshits their state ranks 47th nationally in SAT scores.
#31 | Posted by nullifidian
====================

NULL...but they rank #1 in textbook writing

"This country is doomed."

Posted by nullifidian at 2010-03-13 12:11 PM | Reply | Flag: just noticed

"but they rank #1 in textbook writing"

And 50th in percentage of population with a high school diploma. Maybe if they dumb down the textbooks a little more they can rise to 49th.

Careful null, Jak or Goatman will come on here, and claim that 50th in reading is as important as midgets with health care, or some such sophist bullshit.

"Thomas Jefferson was never President."

-- Ann Coulter, Constitutional Attorney

Been to 57 states, with one to go, but haven't been to Alaska or Hawaii. Fails mathematics, geography, and person history.

From: The Program for International Student Assessment 2006

U.S. Performance in Mathematics Literacy #35

A few that scored better than the US
Azerbaijan
Russian Federation
Croatia
Latvia
Slovenia
Estonia
Canada
Japan
China

U.S. Performance in Science Literacy

Combined science literacy US #28

Identifying scientific issues US #25

Explaining phenomena scientifically US tied #30

Using scientific evidence US # 29
===============

But we are "The World Leader At..." and for how long?

#43 | Posted by SpokaneJim

What's next, correcting misspellings and typos in people's posts?

#45 | Posted by jpw

My post was a response to the one immediately above. But then again, if you equate the President of the United States being incapable of remembering how many states there are, or even simple mathematics (one state left, but haven't been to Alaska or Hawaii) with blog typos, you have a very serious problem.

Book burning reactionaries aka the GOP.

#4 | Posted by northguy3

to you and others here who have like opinions on this matter..

these are elected positions ..
and to put my answer in the words of the lying fuck president..

WE WON...

so deal with it..if dems in texas dont like it...too bad
WE WON...and ELECTIONS have consequences.
if its good enough excuse for govt takeover of your entire life, then its good enough for social studies.

THA BEING SAID

leaving TJ is pretty silly

This is just plain stupid. Jefferson was one of the greatest men to ever live and maybe it is about time that Texas secedes.

Curriculum standards also will describe the U.S. government as a "constitutional republic," rather than "democratic" and students will be required to study the decline in value of the U.S. dollar, including the abandonment of the gold standard.

These I agree with though...

Cynthia Dunbar, a lawyer from Richmond who is a strict constitutionalist and thinks the nation was founded on Christian beliefs, managed to cut Thomas Jefferson from a list of figures whose writings inspired revolutions in the late 18th century and 19th century, replacing him with St. Thomas Aquinas, John Calvin and William Blackstone

I consider myself a strict constitutionalist and cutting Jefferson from the program is not an option. She sounds more like a strict religionist.

if you equate the President of the United States being incapable of remembering how many states there are

If you actually believe he doesn't know how many states there are, you have a big problem.

I was equating pointing out a mistake to pointing out mistakes.

That makes them equivalent, get it?

WE WON...and ELECTIONS have consequences.

So you're not going to utter another peep over anything Obama does from now on? Great.

if its good enough excuse for govt takeover of your entire life, then its good enough for social studies.

How exactly is the government taking over your entire life?

let me say it here as well

these are elected positions
in thewords of the POTUS

WE WON..
so libs..you dont like it ..too FUCKIN bad...

"That makes them equivalent, get it?"

President thinking there are 58 states = president kowing there are 50 states? You obvious [don't] get it. Your head seem to be right up Obama's ass with the MSM.

jp...that was a prediction IF barry is allowed to succeed in his socialist democracy move..

and of course you can UTTER anything you want...just be ready to get what you give....when that worm turns
when that shoe is on the other foot and any other platitudes or cliches we can come up with...

AND my point on referring to barrys 57 state comment

imagine the laughter and ridicule if bush had said it....we would STILL be able to hear it and it would STILL be a part of latenight monologues..

and yet...the ONLY time you hear of it anymore is right here...

WE WON...and ELECTIONS have consequences.

Please e-mail john boner and mitch mcchinless with that tidbit.

They seem awful whiny lately about how the minority cannot rule the senate.

AND IF I might give a little history of this board as well.

it was either in 2000 or 1990 that this same board was used by liberals who were there when it was an APPOINTED BOARD....as in appointed by ann richards...
the libs were doing just what the conservatives are doing now...winning the votes...
and NOW you see why making this board an elected body was fought against so hard by texas dems.

YES I KNOw bush was gov in 2000...must have been 1990...or 80

no board was enacted after 1980 thanks to perot education reforms...

7...

this board is a majority rule agent of the govt..
the senate is not....and I am pretty sure..IF MY TEXAS social studies of american history class was correct...it was designed that way even before the senate election was given to all of the people in a state.

I agree, we need a centrist textbook, like say Howard Zinns "A Peoples History of the United States"

I know that it will be met with scorn but the two volumnes of bill bennet...america, last great hope were extensive and pretty good and I honestly dont remember any rightwing slants to it but then as a conservative I may not recognize those facts that way but rather know them as american values and principles.. ( see how I got that in there..LOL)

AND the headline says far right...that is very incorrect...there IS one guy thats pretty hard core out there...but the majority of the gop on that board are simply NOT far right....the libs there are so radical that it seems that way
AND BY THE WAY...conservatives DID NOT walk out in 1990 when they lost those votes like a couple of these people did...

the senate is not....

Funny, it was when lil bushy rammed his tax cuts for millionaires that have cost us $2 trillion in debt through.

Didn't hear any republicons talkin about the destruction of the senate then.

I do seem to remember hearing a lot about up and down votes coming out Dr Videotape's piehole back then when fillibusters were threatened.

Elections have consequenses. Up and down vote!

Former Senate Parliamentarian Richard Dove was on C-SPAN last night as part of a panel.

He pointed out the first huge tax cuts passed via reconciliation (not after passing with majorities) were during the first year of Ronald Reagan's Presidency. The GOP have been masters at adding trillions to the national debt by abusing reconciliation.

HCR has already passed in both houses.

Reconciliation: To reconcile (different versions of the same bill).

Exactly what's being done with HCR.

You obvious [don't] get it. Your head seem to be right up Obama's ass with the MSM.

I get it just fine.

And my head is hardly up Obama's ass. But if you need to assign me a position in order for your fuckwit dimbulb ideas to remain valid, be my guest.

President thinking there are 58 states = president kowing there are 50 states?

The point is he doesn't think there are 58 states.

et me say it here as well...WE WON..
so libs..you dont like it ..too FUCKIN bad...
#53 | Posted by afkabl2
=============

AFK2...you are correct, however they are the Texas State Board of Education their decisions do not stay in Texas , essentially they amount to a national curriculum.

I know the process would be controversial and there are those opposed to any federal involvement, but this speaks for having a national curriculum in public schools.
#2 | Posted by mmike

How say you?

and of course you can UTTER anything you want...just be ready to get what you give....when that worm turns
when that shoe is on the other foot and any other platitudes or cliches we can come up with...

I will utter whatever I want.

I also will not tell others "we won, deal with it" since opposition is always needed to get things right IMO.

The catch being, however, that opposition does not mean simply taking the opposite side and demanding that and nothing else.

imagine the laughter and ridicule if bush had said it....

Bush had his fair share of gaffes. They all do, as will anyone who spends the amount of time they do in the public eye.

Bush was better known, though, for saying really really retarded shit like "I believe human beings and fish can co exist peacefully".

That's not a simple case of misspeaking. It was a complete brain fart.

"The point is he doesn't think there are 58 states."

Of course not, I will assume, though his comments are pretty plain on their face. However, your entire premise is silly, I was merely responding to another poster who, like Obama, made a clear mistake, but was being ridiculed. One would hope that the President (though during his election tour) would be a bit more on the ball. But equating a simple typo with either of the other mistakes still does not make sense. Hitting the wrong key on a keyboard is not the same as making public comments about there being 58 states. Keep apologizing for Obama if you wish, that's your prerogative, but to be completely honest you have to make similar allowances for right wing mistakes as well.

As to the actual topic of the thread, getting rid of TJ in American History is absolutely insane. I'll give the Texas Yahoos a little benefit that their reactions are somewhat knee-jerk to a perceived liberal socialization of the public classroom, but come on, Thomas Jefferson?! I, too, have a firm dislike of the political correctness of "rewriting" history. Each person and event of history should be studied in the context of the period. The different periods can be discussed as they relate to "modern" periods, but the mere comparison of 18th century events with 21st century morals and values cannot teach a student about the thoughts, beliefs, and reasons for which things occurred hundreds of years ago. Getting rid of Thomas Jefferson in order to replace him with the right wing's example of a religious fundamentalist does nothing more than replace a logical and important part of American history with a modern day attempt at pushing a right-wing agenda.

"Hitting the wrong key on a keyboard is not the same as making public comments about there being 58 states."

Is it the same as claiming Obama said '58 states' when he didn't?

You think the school book rewrites were bad, wait 'till they get finished with the Bible. Conservatives are rewriting it to completely remove ALL mention of Jesus Christ.

They have replaced them with a character called Ronnie Raygun who is born in a mansion, goes around kicking sand in weak people's faces, euthanizing the sick and lame, stealing the fishermen's boats and using them to import hashish from Turkey, is best pals with Caesar and dies old and rich surrounded by hookers.

Children in those days had pet dinosaurs, and the bigger, mellower dinos were used as farm animals for ploughing and such.

Dinosaur races were a very popular pastime of Friday and Saturday nights.

Remove Thomas Jefferson from the history books? WTF?

Revisionist history seems to be a meme in the GOP. Can't talk about how the GOP left America in a smoldering heap, now one of the greatest Americans to ever live is gone from the textbooks. Geesh.

What's next? "Santa Ana was soundly defeated at the Alamo"?

Keep apologizing for Obama if you wish, that's your prerogative, but to be completely honest you have to make similar allowances for right wing mistakes as well.

How is pointing out that your criticism is baseless and retarded apologizing for Obama?

Hint-it's not. He made a mistake and said something funny. It's the overly serious interpretation that I'm addressing.

As per the honesty part, read the post before yours (#69).

One would hope that the President (though during his election tour) would be a bit more on the ball.

Have you ever ran in overdrive for days at a time with little sleep and downtime?

If so, did you manage to go through that experience without a significant increase in mistakes and fuck ups?

As to the actual topic of the thread, getting rid of TJ in American History is absolutely insane. I'll give the Texas Yahoos a little benefit that their reactions are somewhat knee-jerk to a perceived liberal socialization of the public classroom, but come on, Thomas Jefferson?! I, too, have a firm dislike of the political correctness of "rewriting" history. Each person and event of history should be studied in the context of the period. The different periods can be discussed as they relate to "modern" periods, but the mere comparison of 18th century events with 21st century morals and values cannot teach a student about the thoughts, beliefs, and reasons for which things occurred hundreds of years ago. Getting rid of Thomas Jefferson in order to replace him with the right wing's example of a religious fundamentalist does nothing more than replace a logical and important part of American history with a modern day attempt at pushing a right-wing agenda.

AMEN

The Board removed Thomas Jefferson from the Texas curriculum's world history standards on Enlightenment thinking, "replacing him with religious right icon John Calvin."

WTF?

"Texas Textbook Massacre"

"Texas Textbook Massacre"

#78 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010-03-13 04:43 PM | Reply | Flag: newsworthy

Removing reference to the author of the founding document:
The defining moment in the triumph of stupidity in America.

"Is it the same as claiming Obama said '58 states' when he didn't?"

What a blubbering fool. Listen and count, mathless twit. He's been to "57," with one let to go. 57+1=58. He then says he hasn't been to Alaska or Hawaii. That would make 59. The reference was to how many states he had campaigned in. Was it Texas you went to school in?

If he's been to 57, with one left to go, but not yet to Alaska and Hawaii, wouldn't that make 60?

Have you also stopped to consider that he could have been to 57 states. Who said he didn't stop in the same one or ones multiple times?

This whole thing is stupid and your continued defense of the most ridiculous interpretation possible is telling.

#80 | Posted by SpokaneJim

Bla bla bla. 57 states. Birth certificate. Secret muslim. Teleprompter.

They sure make 'em stupid in Spokane.

When you think about it. How much damage has been done, really?

I mean we're talkin' about Texas here, it's not like the kids in TX schools are going to get any dumber.

Years of W as Govenor took care of that.

Fence it off and concentrate on the other 49 States.

#83 | Posted by briwo at 2010-03-13 05:41 PM | Reply | Flag: forgot these texts will be in all the states

The market whould decide what the truth is. The Right.

This well and truly sucks. I've heard that in Japan they aren't taught that they attacked Pearl Harbor, just that the US attacked for no apparent reason.

Leaving out the facts and twisting them is awful.

But then, Texas Dems are known to back away from a fight. Hence those Repubs are the 'winners' and get to rewrite history.

"I wonder if states can voluntarily band together in a non federalized kind of way in order to create buying power to compete against Texas."

Amen.

So what do you folks think? Who should determine curriculum? Standards?

#88 | Posted by SpokaneJim

Well that was quite a rant, StupidInSpokane. Guess I get under your skin, eh? :)

Sniff, sniff.....

Thomas Jefferson was a genius and an Enlightenment thinker. The Texas Board of Education are neither thinkers or enlightened, and they'd prefer the children of the future to be just as stupid, reactionary, and proud of it, as they are.

Liberals don't understand the constitution, which is why they think the US is a democracy. And they don't understand economics, so there's no point in discussing things like inflation and fiat currency.

#19 | POSTED BY RIGHTISRIGHT

retorts the retard..

#82 | Posted by nullifidian
There goes dullboy sniffing at my ass again. What's really funny is watching Obamabots tying themselves into knots trying to justify Obama's silly comments. Isn't he supposed to be the grand orator? Oh, he was tired! Boo fucking hoo. Dull, when do you plan to actually make an argument beyond trying to insult some town? Is your brain so full of Obama's shit that you can no longer think for yourself? Or have you ever been able to think for yourself. Little girly-men like you amuse me, trying to man up with insults on a political blog, while in real life you still try to justify why you're cleaning the toilets of those of us who actually contribute to society. Face to face you become nothing more than a quivering little vagina looking for a pair of balls from a real man to make you feel whole, a limp dick nothing wishing you had stones of your own with which you could formulate a idea.

#88 | POSTED BY SPOKANEJIM

I had to copy and paste to highlight obsessed he is with members, balls and hairy assholes.

sad little man.. Maybe you and Jacque can freind on facebook and meet up in airport bathroom stall somewhere in Minneapolis.

On topic.. This move won't amount to shit.

Liberals ... don't understand economics....

#19 | Posted by rightisright at 2010-03-12 08:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Of course. Every "conservative" since Reagan understands that you talk about responsibility while wrecking the budget and doubling or tripling the debt and then blame the opposing party for attempting to clean up your mess.

"I had to copy and paste to highlight obsessed he is with members, balls and hairy assholes."

These folks in Spokane are very odd. Living in the boondocks probably does that to you, but the homophobia of SpokaneJim seems deeply seated.

I am going to wash your mouth out with soap if you would ever pause for a moment and take that dick out.

#91 | Posted by Dirk at 2010-03-14 12:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

You sound like a real dumbass, Dick.

Interesting phenomenum in Texas---love some of the ideas especially about the gold standard---maybe it's a step to reclaiming America away from the banksters and the Federal Resrve--- if this one area is cleaned up, it'll start to clean up the political structure as well and the harm done to this country since the establishment of the Fed 100 years ago. How money is handled in this country ultimately drives politics. It's no wonder Texas is one of the few states in this country without an overwhelming fiscal crisis---they should pass a law not allowing any leftists to move into their state &/or let them vote (if allowed in) since they want to escape the fiscal mess in their own states that they helped to foster--Texas, close your borders!!!

"The point is he doesn't think there are 58 states."

Of course not, I will assume, though his comments are pretty plain on their face. However, your entire premise is silly, I was merely responding to another poster who, like Obama, made a clear mistake, but was being ridiculed. One would hope that the President (though during his election tour) would be a bit more on the ball. But equating a simple typo with either of the other mistakes still does not make sense. Hitting the wrong key on a keyboard is not the same as making public comments about there being 58 states. Keep apologizing for Obama if you wish, that's your prerogative, but to be completely honest you have to make similar allowances for right wing mistakes as well.

You are taking a 24 second clip out of context from the entire 1+ hours of speaking with the audience. I've got probably close to 30 minutes of Bushisms on hand and can download quite a few more (eight years of painfully creative public gaffes - years!). Honestly though - using a 24 second clip that has plausible and obvious rationale cheapens any argument you might have made, which you still haven't clarified, imo. If you think President Obama is unfit somehow to profess or to preside I advise avoiding any and all comparisons with George W Bush who is an obviously over-privileged undereducated man and stick with over-educated underprivileged communist leadership and failed social programs (like eugenics, not the fair deal). No snark, just an observation. My personal view is that a President should consider the needs of the people first as the intention of our free society rather than pander to any others, ignoring that obligation. He's not exactly weighing my interests yet, but the consequence of putting McCain/Palin in office might be revoking my citizenship and mandatory tissue collection (ie trepan the queers).:]

As to the actual topic of the thread, getting rid of TJ in American History is absolutely insane. I'll give the Texas Yahoos a little benefit that their reactions are somewhat knee-jerk to a perceived liberal socialization of the public classroom, but come on, Thomas Jefferson?! I, too, have a firm dislike of the political correctness of "rewriting" history. Each person and event of history should be studied in the context of the period. The different periods can be discussed as they relate to "modern" periods, but the mere comparison of 18th century events with 21st century morals and values cannot teach a student about the thoughts, beliefs, and reasons for which things occurred hundreds of years ago. Getting rid of Thomas Jefferson in order to replace him with the right wing's example of a religious fundamentalist does nothing more than replace a logical and important part of American history with a modern day attempt at pushing a right-wing agenda.
#70 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2010-03-13 02:52 PM

It's mind-wiping an entire nation's children. All of them. This isn't restricted to Texas where these assholes hail from - their "rulings" impact all scholastic institutions. They are obviously abusing their positions and promoting a very specific fundamentalist programming that is contrary to the factual history. These people are worse than terrorists, imo.

Oregon board of education and the citizens of Oregon did not get to vote on either electing these Texans or whether or not to utilize their bastardized "American history", religiously inhibited "sciences" or questionable "literacy". We should sue Texas for promoting these backwards political and religiously-motivated changes to our national scholastic standard, marring our children's national identity and hopefully remove the entire board of frauds.

Passing fundamentalist propaganda will inspire a very, very ugly response. As you sow so shall you reap, particularly ass-biting varieties.

Poor pot-bot, at it again. "We should sue Texas..." I fucking swear, law suits and freedom to smoke pot are about the only things some on the left dream about.

How about we scrap a federal system of education. You can teach the little lefties in your commune the best way to roll a joint and the people in TX can teach them how to reload a .38.

Both groups would be happy.

"It's no wonder Texas is one of the few states in this country without an overwhelming fiscal crisis"

#98 | Posted by matsop at 2010-03-14 06:39 AM

Wrong again, as usual.

AUSTIN, Texas --- A key state official says the Texas Legislature will face a shortfall of at least $11 billion when they meet to write the next state budget in 2011.

That's the projected difference between available revenue and the cost of maintaining services at their current levels.

John O'Brien, director of the Legislative Budget Board, told a legislative committee Monday that the estimate is conservative and could grow to as much as $15 billion.

The shortfall is a result of several factors, including lower-than-expected sales tax receipts.

State agencies have submitted proposals to cut their current-year budgets by 5 percent, as requested by Gov. Rick Perry. Those savings will only amount to about $1.7 billion, O'Brien said.

The question of what goes into new books is moot, because no school districts can afford to pay their staff or maintain their buildings, much less buy any new books!

"How about we scrap a federal system of education."

Do you think we really have a federal system of education? It seems to me have an amalgam of state systems of education. The feds don't really pay for the shit they pass; they bluster and threaten to make us go along. Many states could have wisely rejected NCLB simply for economic reasons: the testing regimen costing more than the funds a state is getting from the fed DoE.

That said, there are laws that amount to federal regulation: IDEA, ESEA. But again, look at the funding. Is it really federal? That's like saying that we have a federal highway system. We don't, not really. Or do we? : )

I remain amazed that so few of you have taken on the question of whether we should have national standards or curricula, or who should determine what those are. On a site where so many cry states' rights so often, I would think the issue would be near and dear.

Howard Zinn has already proven that you can write an incredibly biased piece of shit and call it history...I don't know why the conservatives are now trying to do the same thing.

I am a staunch free marketeer. Anyone with half a brain is...that doesn't that it's the only system, and to really understand the merits of one over the other you have to be familiar with both. History is intrinsically unpolitical, and once you begin injecting politics, it quickly begins to lose value.

BTW, Zinn's "A People's History" is commonly used in high school and college curriculum. And that thing is an unabashed piece of communist propaganda.

Jefferson was a theist. He believed in a personal God to whom he and every other man or woman was held to account, but rejected the divinity of Jesus and the theology that sprang from it.

Like Payne and Franklin, he was a brilliant intellect, who guided the authors of the Constitution to frame a document that emphasized the innate nobility and worth of each individual, free to build his future on sweat and talent, without the undo interference of government or church.

The founders realized that the state and the church combined would crush individual freedom, as it had in the European monarchies from which many had fled. They carefully separated the two to strengthen the constitutional republic they were building, which was at no time in opposition to democracy, and at every instant at odds with theocracy.

It's no wonder Texas is one of the few states in this country without an overwhelming fiscal crisis"

#98 | Posted by matsop at 2010-03-14 06:39 AM

Wrong again, as usual.

AUSTIN, Texas --- A key state official says the Texas Legislature will face a shortfall of at least $11 billion when they meet to write the next state budget in 2011.

#101 | Posted by Zatoichi

Note, Zat, that I didn't deny they had a fiscal problem like every other state in the Union---it was a comparative statement (if you know what I mean)---their budget woes don't even compare to other large states like California and New York. Theirs is not yet (overwhelming) in the crisis category ----

So, you're right about one thing---you're wrong again.

"BTW, Zinn's "A People's History" is commonly used in high school and college curriculum. And that thing is an unabashed piece of communist propaganda."

"Used in"? Yeah, so? If a chapter is studied, who cares? Might as well balance the whitewashing chapters of the textbooks of my youth. Snark aside, if it's a chapter or two out of a year's HS study, to show another perspective, I call that a good thing as long as the teacher is not proselytizing. I'd say that about a rightwing version (oh, wait...) too. Balance matters. Reading biased works is fine as long as you acknowledge the bias and walk your way with the kids through that bias. (It's called critical thinking.) Hell, I do it with kids quite often--show both sides of a matter and talk about. A small taste is one thing--a central text that presents only one side is quite another.

And college is college--you pay for what you get. I would give those teachers more freedom, and caveat emptor, kiddos. Most professors at colleges, in my experience, are known for their biases. If a professor doing a current events course wants to present some Glenn Beck alongside some Zinn or something from the Free Press guys, all the more power to said professor--and to his/her students. One can only benefit from reading opposing views.

It's no wonder Texas is one of the few states in this country without an overwhelming fiscal crisis"
#98 | Posted by matsop at 2010-03-14 06:39 AM

Wrong again, as usual.

AUSTIN, Texas --- A key state official says the Texas Legislature will face a shortfall of at least $11 billion when they meet to write the next state budget in 2011.

#101 | Posted by Zatoichi

Note, Zat, that I didn't deny they had a fiscal problem like every other state in the Union---it was a comparative statement (if you know what I mean)---their budget woes don't even compare to other large states like California and New York. Theirs is not yet (overwhelming) in the crisis category ----

So, you're right about one thing---you're wrong again.

#107 | Posted by matsop

Oh, another thing, Zat, Texas has a reserve fund of 8 billion and its' bond rating and Texas bonds are respected compared to other states. Furthermore, the 10 billion deficit is projected whereas California's is reality.

So, Zat, as usual you're wrong again---another F for Zat.

...remain amazed that so few of you have taken on the question of whether we should have national standards or curricula, or who should determine what those are. On a site where so many cry states' rights so often, I would think the issue would be near and dear.
#103 | Posted by pragmatist
==============

PRAGM...spot on

I'll answer your a and my question "we should have national standards or curricula" .What we have is not working, I posted how the US ranks in the world (Post #44).

The decline of the US's dominance in the world will hasten because of our lack of education more than any other cause.

Ah, Mmike (and for some reasons, when I see that moniker, I think of Takashi Miike, but anyway), I figured that was your answer. It's interesting that neither your question nor mine (which was a bit different from yours, though could certainly lead us to the same place) generated any discussion. The publishing part of the discussion is surely important, but it could easily be subsumed under this one...

PRAGM...knowing you have experience in the subject, where do you come down on federal involvement?

The decline of the US's dominance in the world will hasten because of our lack of education more than any other cause.

#110 | Posted by mmike

Morals, Mike, it's basic morals---frivolous lawsuits, an economic system brought to its' knees by borrowers who lied on mortgage application loans, lenders (brokers) who wanted fat fees and okayed fraudulent applications and didn't do background checks, congress which knew Fannie/Freddie needed reform and blocked efforts also knowing they were undercollateralized and overleveraged, Fannie executives who knew the same and made millions, wallstreet with their financial product engineering, investment bankers, insurance companies with their undercollateralized CDSs and overleverage, rating agencies in bed with wallstreet and investment banks---corrupt politicians with their earmarks and pork and pathetic personal lives---Mike I could go on and on--if we don't clean up our morals you'll get no changes.

Poor pot-bot, at it again. "We should sue Texas..." I fucking swear, law suits and freedom to smoke pot are about the only things some on the left dream about.
How about we scrap a federal system of education. You can teach the little lefties in your commune the best way to roll a joint and the people in TX can teach them how to reload a .38.
Both groups would be happy.
#100 | Posted by 1libertarian at 2010-03-14 08:40 AM

Yes, Oregon should sue Texas.

And no, your scenario would never correct this problem, but merely invent a new class of non-educated. I'm also uncertain that you understand why, but it has to do with the costs outweighing the incomes. That is entirely why I absolutely do not believe in the "libertarian" model of education whereby everything is private. So, unless you have something constructive to add about actually resolving this issue, I'll just consider you an unusually enormous douche troll.

Btw - I suck at rolling joints, but have recently been taught the correct way to pass, rolling the joint out your forefinger and thumb. Quite useful knowledge - you should definitely consider using it yourself. It might stop you from posting like an incredible asshole?

WE WON...
so deal with it..if dems in texas dont like it...too bad
WE WON...and ELECTIONS have consequences.
if its good enough excuse for govt takeover of your entire life, then its good enough for social studies.

#47 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

Glad you feel that way. Now lets stop the filibuster and pass whatever the Dems please.

The decline of the US's dominance in the world will hasten because of our lack of education more than any other cause.
#110 | Posted by mmike
Morals, Mike, it's basic morals---frivolous lawsuits, an economic system brought to its' knees by borrowers who lied on mortgage application loans, lenders (brokers) who wanted fat fees and okayed fraudulent applications and didn't do background checks, congress which knew Fannie/Freddie needed reform and blocked efforts also knowing they were undercollateralized and overleveraged, Fannie executives who knew the same and made millions, wallstreet with their financial product engineering, investment bankers, insurance companies with their undercollateralized CDSs and overleverage, rating agencies in bed with wallstreet and investment banks---corrupt politicians with their earmarks and pork and pathetic personal lives---Mike I could go on and on--if we don't clean up our morals you'll get no changes.

#113 | POSTED BY MATSOP

Morals my ass. There are always assholes out there. The only thing limiting them is an educated populace. But the average American doesn't understand basic science, economics, finance, government or law. You can whine about morals but the vast majority of people are decent in this country (tea baggers excluded).

Morals my ass. There are always assholes out there. The only thing limiting them is an educated populace. But the average American doesn't understand basic science, economics, finance, government or law. You can whine about morals but the vast majority of people are decent in this country (tea baggers excluded).

#116 | Posted by Sycophant

They're finally getting educated now and not the way you're thinking---they're getting educated about how DC has been screwing up for years along with the Fed---case in point "healthcare reform"--the populace has been ignorant and passive for years but "times are a-changin". Education doesn't build morals but morals build good education---you're right about one thing: the vast majority of people are decent in this country---even leftists who just are misguided and have a glitch in their thinking (or lack thereof) patterns.

Education doesn't build morals but morals build good education---

How do you figure? Morals has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of education one receives, only how they apply that knowledge.

you're right about one thing: the vast majority of people are decent in this country---even leftists who just are misguided and have a glitch in their thinking (or lack thereof) patterns.

Man you have your head inserted quite firmly up your ass.

You should get some help with that.

Education doesn't build morals but morals build good education---

How do you figure? Morals has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of education one receives, only how they apply that knowledge.

#118 | Posted by jpw

Okay, let's start backwards then. Answer me on this: if our problem is in the education area, what are the reasons for that problem?

The liberals have been doing it for years and believe that indoctrination is theirs to foster on our kids. When you have 6 pages on Dr. King and 3 on George Washington ..something is wrong.

But it more than just history. The local high school has a Physics book that you cannot teach out of ..as a result the best Phyics teachers there have made up thier own.

The pre-calculus book my son uses had 8 wrong answers in the last section of the book.

History is the worst as it is open to personal bias. Some of the sections were completely non-sense as they focused on bringing in roles of Women and Minorities during periods where they had little or no input. The result was making major figures of importance out of people that really did not matter...to the detriment of people who really had an impact during those same time periods...but because those people were WHITE MEN they were largely ignored.

Example: Mellon, Aster, Rockefeller basically painting them all with the broad brush of "corupt industrialist" instead of looking at what they accomplished. Basically everything having to do with Business was put down...yet that is the institution that made the US great and who most of us depend upon for our jobs.

The bias is overwhelming - painting Sacco and Vanzetti as just misunderstood guys out for "social justice"

About time we struck back - for the truth

"3 on George Washington ... blah-blah-blah ... the truth"

The truth is these morons eliminated Thomas Jefferson.
Who cares who wrote the Declaration of Independence?
Little Johnny will never read it anyway.

Education doesn't build morals but morals build good education---

How do you figure? Morals has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of education one receives, only how they apply that knowledge.

#118 | Posted by jpw

Okay, let's start backwards then. Answer me on this: if our problem is in the education area, what are the reasons for that problem?

#119 | Posted by matsop

JPW, I don't know where your head is but waiting for an answer so we might dialogue a little.

3 on George Washington ... blah-blah-blah ... the truth"

The truth is these morons eliminated Thomas Jefferson.
Who cares who wrote the Declaration of Independence?
Little Johnny will never read it anyway.

#121 | Posted by Zatoichi

Zat, got to agree with you on that---Thomas Jefferson should definitely not be eliminated.

Education doesn't build morals but morals build good education---

How do you figure? Morals has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of education one receives, only how they apply that knowledge.

#118 | Posted by jpw

Okay, let's start backwards then. Answer me on this: if our problem is in the education area, what are the reasons for that problem?

#119 | Posted by matsop

JPW, I don't know where your head is but waiting for an answer so we might dialogue a little.

#122 | Posted by matsop

JPW, I've extricated my head and still am waiting for an answer---Syncophant, you may take up JPW's cudgel if you desire and answer the question---

JPW, I don't know where your head is but waiting for an answer so we might dialogue a little.

Sorry. Was at the dog park with the pups.

if our problem is in the education area, what are the reasons for that problem?

Reasons?

Many and varied.

Mixed bag teacher wise. Some are great, many really suck and it's not easy to get rid of those who suck.

Kids are largely disinterested and are more interested in immediate gratification, therefore, they lack the ability to see the long term benefits of constant hard work relative to the immediate benefits that will only last a short time.

Parents are too busy doing something other than parenting, both good and bad, leaving a large amount of apathy or disregard to their kid's school work.

For many kids not suffering from the any of the above, they're stuck in shitty schools with shitty funding and little resources.

Those are the broad generalizations I can think of off the top of my head and I'm sure you can think of and add more.

JPW, I've extricated my head and still am waiting for an answer

Was it easy?

Glad to be back in the fresh air?

LOL I'm kidding btw

v
JPW, I don't know where your head is but waiting for an answer so we might dialogue a little.

Sorry. Was at the dog park with the pups.

if our problem is in the education area, what are the reasons for that problem?

Reasons?

Many and varied.

Mixed bag teacher wise. Some are great, many really suck and it's not easy to get rid of those who suck.

Kids are largely disinterested and are more interested in immediate gratification, therefore, they lack the ability to see the long term benefits of constant hard work relative to the immediate benefits that will only last a short time.

Parents are too busy doing something other than parenting, both good and bad, leaving a large amount of apathy or disregard to their kid's school work.

For many kids not suffering from the any of the above, they're stuck in shitty schools with shitty funding and little resources.

Those are the broad generalizations I can think of off the top of my head and I'm sure you can think of and add more.

#125 | Posted by jpw

Also, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner---was in church.

Two of the reasons you gave are interesting---the kids instant gratification issue and the parents lack of direction and more interested in their own wants and being apathetic. Just wonder why kids are so apathetic today---maybe the lack of good role models---kids look increasingly to pimps, hollywood, rapsters etc. ---I wouldn't call these good role models---the people they look to obviously (to me) have no sense of responsibility in the product and image they're promoting (money and things and personal instant gratification are more important to them)---I would tend to call that a sense of selfishness and thus a moral issue---

The same thing applies to the parents which you so adroitly pointed out----self-absorption and caught up in their own wants and self-gratification (don't bother me with parenting)---thus another moral issue.

Would you agree that kids that go to private schools and charter schools are academically better prepared then the average public school child---if so, why do unions (and a certain political group) fight the charter school concept and promoting competition allowing more parents to send their children to charter schools---when unions and politicians do this they're looking out for their own situations/interests----I would call this a moral issue.

I could list some more but yours were helpful---this is what I was getting at in my previous comments---if we don't solve these type of issues (which I believe are moral) you can spend even more money without any increase in results.

"Man you have your head inserted quite firmly up your ass."

It depends on whether he left out the comma deliberately. "...leftists, who have..." is entirely different from "...leftists who have..."

I could list some more but yours were helpful---this is what I was getting at in my previous comments---if we don't solve these type of issues (which I believe are moral) you can spend even more money without any increase in results.

#125 | Posted by matsop

By the way, not being able to get rid of poor teachers or at least giving them the chance to upgrade their lack of interest or skills is usually due to union interference---if you're not interested in helping children to escape their poverty and progress academically in order to maintain your power base; I would call that a moral issue.

"The pre-calculus book my son uses had 8 wrong answers in the last section of the book."

Fosh, you do know that schools don't write textbooks, right? And this is exactly the problem with this decision. Texas rules, and I don't mean that in a good way. HUGE portion of the publishing pie, so publishers will want to please them. If the best physics teachers can make up their own books, why can't good history teachers create materials that mix and merge and provide balance or varying perspective, and make kids think? Are you suggesting that there are no good history teachers in Texas?

+++++

"Would you agree that kids that go to private schools and charter schools are academically better prepared then the average public school child---"

Love to see some nonpartisan evidence on that. (No, sending me stuff from the charter school association doesn't do it, anymore than my providing NEA statistics would work for you).

And then I'd love to talk about why that is. For instance, people love to harp on private schools being better than--or kids scoring better than, which I'd suggest is not the same thing--but they ignore WHY that might be. (Hm, let's start with being able to choose who attend, and let's add parents who are more likely to be engaged in their children's education.)

"if so, why do unions (and a certain political group) fight the charter school concept and promoting competition allowing more parents to send their children to charter schools---when unions and politicians do this they're looking out for their own situations/interests----I would call this a moral issue."

Competition in schools just doesn't make sense to me. For more reasons than I can list here (and I've listed them over and over again). That said, the public schools certainly have much to work on. But why do we blame the teachers and the schools for EVERYTHING? Do we blame doctors and hospitals when they give good advice and patients blow it off and lead unhealthy lives? Of course, we don't.

"By the way, not being able to get rid of poor teachers or at least giving them the chance to upgrade their lack of interest or skills is usually due to union interference---if you're not interested in helping children to escape their poverty and progress academically in order to maintain your power base; I would call that a moral issue."

Matsop, I often find your posts thought-provoking, or at least worth reading, but I have to wonder where you get this stuff. If people were fucking with kids' lives in order to maintain a power base (teachers have zero power in this society, outside the classroom and often not in it, what with administrative undermining), that would indeed be a moral problem.

The NEA WANTS teachers to improve, and continually. There are flaws in how we deal with teacher improvement, and I will readily admit that, but the assertion, common among ed critics, that unions exist to protect bad teachers is a canard. We protect the contract, and good contracts provide for improvement plans and doors to kick the bad teacher out the door. I've seen it happen. Do x, y, and z, and these will show you're on your way. Oh, you didn't do those things? See ya! And the union, well my union, will hold the door open. Seems to me that all the horror stories I hear about teacher retention happen in big cities, where the district is too large for efficient dealings on matters like arbitration issues. Okay, the conclusion about size is mine, but I have never heard about "rubber rooms" or any of that in small states.

Competition in schools just doesn't make sense to me. For more reasons than I can list here (and I've listed them over and over again). That said, the public schools certainly have much to work on. But why do we blame the teachers and the schools for EVERYTHING? Do we blame doctors and hospitals when they give good advice and patients blow it off and lead unhealthy lives? Of course, we don't.

#128 | Posted by pragmatist

We shouldn't blame the teachers and schools for everything---a lot of where we are today for the public schools and teachers were spawned out of the civil rights movement of the 60s and the resulting political correctness---like most things there was an over reaction----teachers were afraid to discipline especially in inner city schools since they were called racist, etc---school boards were cowards and teachers felt no backing---a certain political group did everything to prop up that mentality. I have friends that were teachers and principals and it was hell for them---they couldn't wait to get out of that situation---and now the lack of discipline is ingrained in certain schools.

And why else is lack of discipline an issue? PARENTS. Society is not the same as it was when I was in school (much longer ago than Ray seems to think, btw), and part of that is simply the result of time--societies change. But I can see something in what you say. Something. : )

I wish more people admitted even as much as you do. Too many ed critics just go with "Unions suck and teachers are worse." Such bullshit. I know many more decent, good, and great teachers than I do shitty teachers. And I know many more passionate teachers than I do lackadaisical teachers. Go figure. Might have something to do with the fact that I actually work in a school and have direct knowledge of how things are done. Unlike many ed critics who think that they understand school because they went to school. (I am not including those who have struggled in recent years with the vicissitudes of having kids in school.)

Matsop, I often find your posts thought-provoking, or at least worth reading, but I have to wonder where you get this stuff. If people were fucking with kids' lives in order to maintain a power base (teachers have zero power in this society, outside the classroom and often not in it, what with administrative undermining), that would indeed be a moral problem.

#129 | Posted by pragmatist

A lot of what I believe comes (of course) from my upbringing and even within that I guess I'm unique---come from a Calvinistic background---world/life view---feel I've been tremendously blessed and within my life my responsibility is to look out for my neighbor's interests as well as my own---also, to me anything that impedes the god given gifts of my neighbor is essentially immoral---and individuals that are out for themselves and in the process hurt others (through their selfishness, materialism, etc.) are shallow and injurious to the people and community around them---also, as a kid did a lot of reading of various philosophers---Barth, Kierkegaard, etc.

I wish more people admitted even as much as you do. Too many ed critics just go with "Unions suck and teachers are worse." Such bullshit. I know many more decent, good, and great teachers than I do shitty teachers. And I know many more passionate teachers than I do lackadaisical teachers. Go figure. Might have something to do with the fact that I actually work in a school and have direct knowledge of how things are done. Unlike many ed critics who think that they understand school because they went to school. (I am not including those who have struggled in recent years with the vicissitudes of having kids in school.)

#131 | Posted by pragmatist

Just had dinner last evening with one of my best friends----a principal. I've served on school boards and been a president of a school board. Have worked with manufacturing unions and met some great people---generalizations are always dangerous--there never is one group that has their act together irrespective of their opposition. Some of the people that have influenced me the most were my teachers---and I wasn't an easy student to deal with---got my act together (finally) in the 2nd year of college---my grandfather (very influential on me) came to this country alone when he was 15---by the time he was 21, he was a school principal.

#131 | Posted by pragmatist

By the way, prag, I enjoy your posts---why do I do this with my spare time--It keeps me sharp and I actually learn from some of the posters---it also forces me to keep up to date on certain subject matters.

"By the way, prag, I enjoy your posts---why do I do this with my spare time--It keeps me sharp and I actually learn from some of the posters---it also forces me to keep up to date on certain subject matters."

Thanks, man. And that's very much why I continue to come here as well.

Matsop,

While I understand what you're saying, I still don't think it can be boiled down to something as simple as a "moral issue." I also believe that in doing so we wash out the complexity of the issue to the detriment of the very kids that one attempts to help by fixing the system.

why do I do this with my spare time--It keeps me sharp and I actually learn from some of the posters---it also forces me to keep up to date on certain subject matters.

I've tried convincing my wife that that's the way it really is here sometimes (not all the time, I know...).

She doesn't believe me LOL

The religious mumbo-jumbo and not teaching church and state issues are problems. But the other items mentioned above seem like normal topics for American history to me.

JPW, I've extricated my head and still am waiting for an answer---Syncophant, you may take up JPW's cudgel if you desire and answer the question---

#122 | POSTED BY MATSOP

Oh where do I start? You claim the issue is morals, but the Bible Belt is the poorest educated with the highest teen pregnancy rates in the country. You can cite Texas all you want, but the reason they are doing well has nothing to do with morals or good government; they have oil. Saudi Arabia isn't doing bad either. Want to copy them? No? Ok. So Texas sucks. Sorry.

The real truth is kids today are smarter than you and far smarter than your parents. We can complain about test scores, etc. Most of that is due to kids in other countries being put into virtual educational caste systems and only the top caste tested. Some of it is our weak standards and inability to imagine more harsh education. And I agree, we still need to get back to focusing on the basics of education, but in a far more demanding style. It would be nice if a C were average and kids were expected to really work at school. But the truth is still undeniable; not much has changed in education really and the kids today are still smarter than their parents.

But I do appreciate your apocalyptic political jargon though. I suggest you get off the Fox News though. The majority of the country favors health care reform. People already knew how Washington worked. It's only a tiny little percentage of very loud people, tea baggers, who are actually making any noise. There is no great revolution coming.

Nothing changes. Ever.

this speaks for having a national curriculum in public schools.
#2 | POSTED BY MMIKE

Who is to say that a national curriculum would be any better? Would you want your kid to be educated under a national curriculum created under the Bush regime? Doubtful.

#138 | Posted by Sycophant
Oh where do I start? You claim the issue is morals, but the Bible Belt is the poorest educated with the highest teen pregnancy rates in the country. You can cite Texas all you want, but the reason they are doing well has nothing to do with morals or good government; they have oil. Saudi Arabia isn't doing bad either. Want to copy them? No? Ok. So Texas sucks. Sorry.
-------------
Texas loves people like you and as long as you keep on believing your own hype, Texas will get the jobs.

#139 | Posted by the_nether

Who is to say that a national curriculum would be any better? Would you want your kid to be educated under a national curriculum created under the Bush regime? Doubtful.
-----------
Excellent point!

Central athority has it +s and -s, when it's in the hands of poeple you agree with it's great, when it goes the other way that's another story.

It's much easier to move out of a state you don't like than to move to a different country.

:"PRAGM...knowing you have experience in the subject, where do you come down on federal involvement?"

Sorry, Mmike, not ignoring you--I want to see what others say before I chime in.

Man, I'm sorry I didn't see this story sooner!!

First, how do they get off calling this story "news"? I'm referring to the writer, first line "A far-right faction...". Sounds pretty opinionated to me.

Second, Hey dumb ass, WE ARE A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC, you know, a nation of laws!!!

Third, making students study the decline of the dollar & abandoning the gold system... duh, that's called HISTORY & facts.
Forth, learning the Bill of Rights, which INCLUDES the second amendment, when did that STOP being taught? And, WHY?

5th, to include hip-hop as a cultural movement? How in the world does that apply to getting an education? HH seems more like a bowl movement to me!!

This could go on, but I digress...
Sounds like they are including history in the text books, it's too bad we have become so politically correct, that we have to rewrite the past.
There are a lot of things in our country's past that we may like to change, but IT IS HISTORY & it is our history, you can't try to teach it otherwise just because it makes you feel good!!
Thumbs up to the TSBE.

"Second, Hey dumb ass, WE ARE A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC, you know, a nation of laws!!!
Third, making students study the decline of the dollar & abandoning the gold system... duh, that's called HISTORY & facts."

That's why I said some of the ideas weren't bad. But what about this one: "[the new curriculum will] not highlight the philosophical rationale for the separation of church and state." Really? One of the cornerstones of the Bill of Rights will not be talked about? Hm.

"Forth, learning the Bill of Rights, which INCLUDES the second amendment, when did that STOP being taught? And, WHY?"

It didn't. In most schools I know of, Civics is still a graduation requirement--and so... Bill of Rights. If anyone is teaching Civics without the Bill of Rights, we have bigger problems than even I know.

And btw, includes the 2nd Amendment, not is all about the 2nd amendment. And how would you feel if the counter-argument is offered? If students were required to examine and analyze the part about "a well-regulated militia" and its logical extension?

"5th, to include hip-hop as a cultural movement? How in the world does that apply to getting an education? HH seems more like a bowl movement to me!!"

Oh, boy. You are a freakin' genius. If you are talking about 20th century cultural movements (as in arts--music, film, etc.), leaving hiphop out is rather dumb. But I'd have to see the context--beyond "They left hiphop out!"--to make a meaningful judgment. Hell, Seed, my grandparents thought rock music was trash; if you are studying popular music in any way, or music's impact on politics or on society more generally, would you leave Elvis out? Come on. Again, without context, meaningless, but so is your blanket rejection. Cultures have movements, whether or not we personally like them. Hell, I abhor modern country music, but I can't deny that Garth Brooks has had an impact, nor that modern country music doesn't speak to society in some pretty important ways.

"Sounds like they are including history in the text books, it's too bad we have become so politically correct, that we have to rewrite the past."

"...There are a lot of things in our country's past that we may like to change, but IT IS HISTORY & it is our history, you can't try to teach it otherwise just because it makes you feel good!!"

So how do you feel about deflating heros like Custer (just to name one)? Are there really no topics that you'd be pissed about if a school board "rewrote history"?

"Thumbs up to the TSBE."

Really? You're serious, aren't you? Scary.

Okay, so how about the larger issues that have been brought up? Does your post say it all?

TEXAS: FULL OF BACKWARDS RACIST REDNECKS!

please please please, secede already. We beg you

this speaks for having a national curriculum in public schools.
#2 | POSTED BY MMIKE
Who is to say that a national curriculum would be any better? Would you want your kid to be educated under a national curriculum created under the Bush regime? Doubtful.
#139 | Posted by the_netther
================

N...It would be a better choice to have a pool of academics for each subject writing textbooks standards rather than elected school boards from the left or right

"Oh where do I start? You claim the issue is morals, but the Bible Belt is the poorest educated with the highest teen pregnancy rates in the country. You can cite Texas all you want, but the reason they are doing well has nothing to do with morals or good government; they have oil. Saudi Arabia isn't doing bad either. Want to copy them? No? Ok. So Texas sucks. Sorry."

Actually, Austin is growing by about 85 cars per day...and it's not because people are attracted to it's backwardness. In fact, most of the new arrivials are coming from California, and are moving there because Texas offers more opportunity. not only does Austin offer a much more favorable business environment, but it also has some of the hottest nightlife in the country.

That's not to say that oil doesn't bring in money, but it's certainly not the reason why so many tech firms and young professionals are making the move.

It's much easier to move out of a state you don't like than to move to a different country.
#141 | Posted by 90c2cab
===================

90..The standards should be the same wherever you move. Even if you have a national standard (I agree with) there still is the issue of access to the material, it should be a priority to fix the system for all . Most teachers are dedicated and do there job and elementary students are like a sponge and just soak up information. There seems to be a lack interest of many middle/high school students to continue their education in a serious manner.

If your school board does not have the money they don't get the new books. We had to sign and date the inside cover of our texts for English lit. in Jr HS, the first date on the cover was 30 years old. Before you jump up and say literature does not loose value over time (depending on the authors) . The book was Black Arrow not the one most might know, it had pictures on each page with a few lines of text, felt like elementary school all over again.

If it wasn't for my parents pushing I could have easily become like some of those disillusion classmates of mine whose career choices led to, crime, drugs, alcohol, and death.

Actually, Austin is growing by about 85 cars per day...and it's not because people are attracted to it's backwardness. In fact, most of the new arrivials are coming from California, and are moving there because Texas offers more opportunity.

#147 | Posted by madbomber

Hopefully, for Texans the Californians aren't the left that destroyed California---the state is dead-meat if they are---Texans should have a means test before they allow any of these folks in.

"In fact, most of the new arrivials are coming from California, and are moving there because Texas offers more opportunity. "

Well as a so-called libertarian/propertarian you should be aware of the laws of supply and demand. California is much more expensive to live in than Texas because people would rather live here, rather than there. The only reason people leave Cali is because they can't afford it, certainly not because they would want to live in the most uneducated state in the country. Californians move to Texas when they're broke, and only then. It's the last step before suicide. Hahahaha.

Come on, now. Let's be fair. Austin is hardly emblematic of the entire state of Texas, any more than New York City is emblematic of the entire state of New York, or Burlington is emblematic of the entire state of Vermont, or San Francisco--oh, well, maybe that one. : )

Seriously, I know some very smart, well-educated, artistic folks living in Austin (and Dallas). Not that I'm likely to move there, but I'd love to visit.

"Austin is hardly emblematic of the entire state of Texas"

So I'm told. An oasis of civilization in a buffoonish state.

I know the process would be controversial and there are those opposed to any federal involvement, but this speaks for having a national curriculum in public schools.
#2 | Posted by mmike

How say you?

#68 | Posted by mmike

sorry to just now get back to you...
education was left out of the constitution on purpose thus invoking the tenth amendment.
people in thier own communities SHOULD know and spell out what and how they want to teach..the state of texas gets in the way enough without the feds doing even more.
its not texas's fault that the publishers use these texts because they sell more here than in most other states....and again...if that statement is good enough..WE WON...for 1 sixth of the economy, then its good enough for this issue...
that being said..there are some "CURIOUS" things they left out arent there?

What's next? "Santa Ana was soundly defeated at the Alamo"?

#74 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at

hey this isnt as 'outlandish' as you may have first thought when it went through that rhythmn rattled brain of yours...lol..

there have already been several attempts at rewriting texas history where the mexicans come out better than they really did..
all sorts of tales about the alamo.....

Fence it off and concentrate on the other 49 States.

#83 | Posted by briwo at 2010-03-13 05

good idea and then we can freeze your ass in the fuckin dark.

CAUSE the port of galveston and port arthur and corpus christi would be CLOSED to U.S. shipping until the proper TAXES were put into place.

Californians move to Texas when they're broke, and only then. It's the last step before suicide. Hahahaha.

#150 | Posted by nullifidian

I hear they go to Texas because even though the cost of living is even lower in Louisiana it actually sucks even worse there.

The only reason people leave Cali is because they can't afford it, certainly not because they would want to live in the most uneducated state in the country. Californians move to Texas when they're broke, and only then. It's the last step before suicide. Hahahaha.

#150 | Posted by nullifidian

Nice rationalization. People are have been fleeing Cali and moving to Texas for some time now. There's something about less nanny-ism and a more conducive environment to operate a business that attracts people.

Face it. Your state, as beautiful as it is, is on the verge of outright bankruptcy - this is the natural conclusion to leftist governance. Sadly, Michigan is in a similar situation - unions own our state politicians and have literally driven business out of the state and Jennifer Granholm has been powerless to do anything about it as she's beholden to her leftist ideals as well. *For what it's worth, Mike Bishop (R) is a piece of shit as well*

Like a moth to a flame, the biggest failure of a citizen from the biggest failure of a state parrots his "#47" *squawk*, still stupidly relating intelligence with education. Eleven of the 150 posts he has knee-jerkingly put up. LOL Let's his other parroting talking point "one post from me generates blah, blah blah. Clearly one thread about Texas generates dozens of parrot squawks from the dull one. LOL

A smart state prospers. A stupid one fails -- regardless of education. The proof is in the pudding, not what some left coast hopped up idiot says. LOL

It obviously stings the dull one like hell to see an uneducated state prosper while his continues to sink lower and lower into an economic abyss. Tell us how it feels to be economically bested by such a dumb state, dull. LOL From a Texan standpoint, it doesn't bother me a bit to have a lower SAT score. We clearly are much smarter -- that's what matters.

"I hear they go to Texas because even though the cost of living is even lower in Louisiana it actually sucks even worse there."

Not much to choose between those two shitholes.

Not much to choose between those two shitholes.

#160 | Posted by nullifidian

Which is all the more of an indictment on California politics. Texas is a desert. California is a lush and beautiful state and people are STILL fleeing Cali in droves in favor of Texas. With that type of regional advantage, Cali should be a global powerhouse from now until eternity, yet the state is on the verge of an economic and political implosion on a massive scale.

Unbelievable.

#161

"But, but, but, SAT... mumble... #47... mumble... shit hole..."

signed:
The dull one

And the sour grapes become even more rancid. LOL

" yet the state is on the verge of an economic and political implosion on a massive scale. "

lol. You're as hysterical as some of the media sources you read. Things are great in Cali. I haven't noticed any effect on my life or anyone I know from the budget problems in Sacramento. That's just media hyperbole. Besides, if we ever do have any problems, we can always smoke a bowl. Hahahaha.

I haven't noticed any effect on my life...nor did the rest of the country prior to October 2009. Your state's budget is on the verge of collapse and with your state's idiotic referendum system, your politicians are pretty much powerless to fix it. You are living on borrowed time.

we can always smoke a bowl.

In Cali??? Drink some wine. California produces wines that can go toe-to-toe with some of the best offerings from France and Italy.

"You are living on borrowed time."

Yeah, same old shtick, Raystradamus.

TX has about the same per capita deficit as CA this year.

Yeah, same old shtick, Raystradamus.

He's looking increasingly prescient of late.

I hear they go to Texas because even though the cost of living is even lower in Louisiana it actually sucks even worse there."

Not much to choose between those two shitholes.

#160 | Posted by nullifidian at

well I am certainly glad you feel that way...that helps keep you out...ha ha...

but hey...I would sign for your visa just to let you in for awhile and see what its like to live in a state with money in the bank and you could learn the joys of longnecks, bbq, big fat cigars, burnt beef steak and TEX MEX.....lol
UNLIKE CALIFORNIA which is about to destroy public eduction because the DEMS there spend too much money....
I believe the name of the CNN segment was "Schools in crisis."

and here is one thing I meant to tell all of you from some of the "LESSER" states in the us..

if you dont like whats in our textbooks

WRITE AND PUBLISH YOUR OWn fuckin books....

TX has about the same per capita deficit as CA this year.

???

41.6 billion vs 3.3 billion?

you cant leave out the more than six billion in the 'rainy day' fund surplus so that leaves..
lets see..subtract the...and then carry the....

by my calculations that leaves about 5 billion..and bets are good that we wont tax the shit out of everyone to get it....without SPENDING CUTS...

one thing they are talking about though PISSES ME OFF

story out that the texas leg will give people making 18k and below....LESS punishment on driving without a liscense or DRUNK DRIVING

BULLShit...drunk drivers shouls get thier throats slit..now a BREAK ON THE FINE....
will mail my state rep and senator on THIS One.

AU 173

okay arnold...NOW you are getting into trouble..

BUT heard that in TENN they are about to tax FREE BREAKFAST that some hotels/motels give you on paying for a room...almost ten percent...bullshit
I WANT MY BAGELS....

If they reported it on Fox it isn't true.

Anyway, lots of dumpsters near hotels here. I wouldn't worry

LOL

it was on npr thank you very much

the show thats on at 4 cst...

Better eat as many bagels as you can, stuff your pockets with 'em. Grab jelly, spread, butter, utensils.

When I check out and they ask, "how was your stay sir?", I love answering:

"Everything was great, but your towels are so fluffy I could hardly get my suitcase shut."

The look on their faces: Priceless

You realize my link compared two 2010 budgets. Yours for the California number was from 2009 and the one for Texas was projected in the 2011 budget. If you compare the two same years (the current) ones as I did, your argument would be more realistic. If you want to compare California's 2009 budget deficits to Texas' 2009 budget deficits, that is 11 billion vs $0.

Just saying --let's compare like years, OK?

But at any rate, there is no doubt the general state of the California's economy is dismal while Texas' is doing relatively well.

PS: your link was a projected deficit for California. Their actually deficit in 2009 was almost $20b, not the $9b projected. Texas' was actually $0 that year

California's 2011 is projected at $20 billion

Texas' at $11 billion

Divide the debt by population and you have approx. the same deficit per capita.

Like a $50 per person difference - $460 vs 510

Every state is hurting. Texas is not exempt.

If California raised property taxes to even less per mil than Texas they'd have lower deficits than Texas.

Prop 13 is why California is in trouble.

We'll see. California projected 9 billion. It was actuallhy 20 billion. Doesn't sound like their very good at projections.

Anyway, I prefer to deal with facts, not speculation.

OK, then I guess Texas won't run an $11 Billion deficit.

Too bad Texas ran one at all. If Perry hadn't been so intransigent and taken the Stimulus money ...

But, he'd rather be a dick bag and hurt average citizens for a little political capitol among the FoxNews chattering classes.

Even running with projected numbers (which I proved California is piss poor at providing) here is the breakdown:

20 billion / 37 million people = $540 per capita
11 billion / 25 million people = $440 per capita

hmm. More than a 21 percent. That's "approximately the same"?

Interesting

At any rate, my point was about the general economy of the respective states not budgets. Go ahead -- it's OK to admit that Texas' is far, far better. I doubt the democratic party will disown you for admitting the truth. They're going to need all the votes they can get this November. *grin*

If California raised property taxes...

If, if, if. Any argument can be made with those two letters. But I'll run with your "IFs". Again, apples and oranges. You do understand that the reason that Texas has higher property taxes is because they have NO state income tax, right? And California has a higher sales tax? Total taxes considered California is taxed far greater than Texans.

"Divide the debt by population and you have approx. the same deficit per capita."

Interesting, but it really doesn't matter. That's a trivial issue compared to the quality of life, the personal freedom, the educated, urban population, etc. I have no problems with paying higher taxes and higher housing costs to live here. It's worth it. You get what you pay for.

And now for some breaking news...

"Texas ranks as one of the nation's least-connected states, with only three out of five Texans with Internet access at home, according to numbers released Wednesday by the U.S. Census Bureau.

Like a $50 per person difference - $460 vs 510

Recheck your math. 11 billion divided by 25 million people = $540, not $510

If Perry ...

Move the goalposts from the general state of the economy to deficits to Rick Perry. Focus, AU! *grin*

"Recheck your math. 11 billion divided by 25 million people = $540, not $510'

Try $440 there, Poisson.

$188. And the dull one's bad case of sour grapes just keep getting more and more sour. God it's funny watching him justify his failed state! LOL

At any rate, dull, you are happy living in a failed state with people who can't make it work and quoting an SAT statistic of another state. (what Texas' SAT numbers has to do with Californias excesses and failures, I'll never know. Maybe one day the dull one will explain it to us) I'm happy living in a prosperous one with smart people who can make a state prosperous. We each have what we'd rather have, right?

"Texas ranks as one of the nation's least-connected states, with only three out of five Texans with Internet access at home, according to numbers released Wednesday by the U.S. Census Bureau.

So you are saying that the lesser time they spend on the internet helps explain why they are running econonic circles around California?

Depends on what population numbers you use.

Anyway, all states are hurting right now. Every one.

I should say 'whose' population numbers you use ...

You take this much too seriously, Goatman. I don't blame you personally for the shitty statistics from Texas. You just have to live there, and for that, you have my condolences, bro. I feel your pain...

Dullifidian reminds me of the girl who didn't make the prom Queen. "But she made a D in algebra. But she got her shoes at WalMart. But her parents don't drive a BMW".

You just have to live there,...

???

With my job I can live anwhere I want in the continental US. My company pays to fly me to the heliport everytime I go offshore and fly me back home after my hitch. We have people have had people on board living as far away as Maine and Oregon. WTF are you talking about?

San Antonio's a nice place

Anyway, all states are hurting right now. Every one.

Some not nearly as bad as others, obviously.

The whole world is hurting right now. Yes, even China. Interesting article here:

I saw that same story today or yesterday, GOATMAN. Very interesting.

China is getting more and more nationalistic. That's scary. The former premier was more pro-western. Wen isn't.

China is beginning to demand blueprints of items manufactured in China. Not good.

It's going to be interesting when China is forced to let their currency float. It's not just the US pissed about it anymore. I didn't realize China had so many vulnerabilities woven into their economic model until I read that article.

GOATMAN

I don't know how the U.S. can hold leverage over the Chinese anymore as dependent as we've become on their loans the past 10 years.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if one day they invade Taiwan and dare the world to do something about it.

It's going to be interesting when China is forced to let their currency float. It's not just the US pissed about it anymore. I didn't realize China had so many vulnerabilities woven into their economic model until I read that article.

The rise of Chinese nationalism is very troubling. If they do start to suffer economically it won't be only the Chinese it hurts in the 21st Century.