I find it hard to believe they can sell permission at all. It's not like there's any laws mandating it....yet. I wonder how this is affecting the utility prices in the northeast? It can only drive them higher.

Toto has pulled the curtain aside and now the public knows them for what they are.

Stupidest f*ucking market I ever heard of. You would think people would learn that buying and selling something that doesn't exist is a bad idea.

"Power plants in the greenhouse gas program emitted roughly 135 million tons of carbon dioxide last year, while the states issued 188 million permits"

Each permit represents a ton? Millions more permits for sale than what is actually?

"Carbon dioxide, we need more carbon dioxide!"
--- Cap-n-Trade politicians ---

Cap and trade will work no better than Hopenchange. It is and always has been about scamming for free money without actually producing anything.

"Well shit the bed", Al Gore lamented.

I wonder if Al Gore is shorting the carbon market...

...or picking up even more permits during this fire sale?

Just how strong are his convictions?

Cap and trade has not passed and is NOT law. Why would the government issue permits? Its a scam!!!!

Bendor,

Very interesting question about The Great Gore....astoundingly, although CO2 levels continue to climb, the planet hasn't warmed in 15 years....

I'm still waiting for Ringmaster or some other such genius to explain how the mile-high ice sheet atop Manhattan melted 12,000 years ago without the help of human CO2 emissions, or even George Bush....

Mammoth farts...lots and lots of Mammoth farts.

Link blows.

#3 | Posted by STIRSUMUP

stole my argument!!
hard to buy/sell something that doesn't exsist.

Posted by American1st at 11:30 AM | 11 COMMENTS | permalink | Comment on This Entry

Carbon prices falling amid weak trading

Where is the Plunge Protection Team?

This is a commentary on the status of the public awareness of the whole carbon-trading racketeering scheme backing up a complete pseudo-scientific control grid in shambles.

Once again, the northern loon states enact some bogus rules to scam money from the evil rich power companies for what? And the same loons want to force this shit on the rest of us?

You all know that plants convert CO2 to O2 right?

Legalized theft for sure.

Liberal crickets.

If I let my grass grow and plant 10,000 acorn in my backyard 2 mm apart can I score some credits on this cap and trade scam?

The market is simply handicapping the passage of cap-and-trade in the short run. I never liked cap and trade, especially a cap and trade system which would hand out credits to the polluters. Personally, I think there should be a direct carbon tax imposed, and the proceeds should be used dollar for dollar to offset employement taxes. Tax activities you don't want and incentivize those activities you want more of.

#16 | POSTED BY TAXMAN

If my math is right (and it seldom is), your plan would create no new revenue for the government. How can we possibly fight AGW without gobs and gobs of new revenue?

your plan would create no new revenue for the government

That's the beauty of it.

#16 taxfraud
there should be a direct carbon tax imposed

That's why you're known as TaxFraud. An anonymous implied "tax authority" by pseudoname who obviously lacks "independent intelligent" thought to always side with the fake establishment pundits (Beck/OReilly/Pelosi: national sales tax/VAT tax) on taxing the plebs to make sure America is officially bankrupted and completely dependent on Big Brother so they may bring in their global governance.

If I let my grass grow and plant 10,000 acorn in my backyard 2 mm apart can I score some credits on this cap and trade scam?

#15 | Posted by fwthom

Only if you give algore what slick willie got from monica.

#19 | Posted by L_RContrarian at 2010-03-11 03:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're fucking weird, bro. Watch out the feds are right around the corner tracking your every move!

tax, what part of # 19 didn't you understand?

I understood every part of it, and he's fucking crazy, as is anyone who agrees with that crap.

You would think people would learn that buying and selling something that doesn't exist is a bad idea.

#3 | Posted by STIRSUMUP

you mean like derivatives?

Why would anyone spend good money on this scam? Better to give it to Maidoff.

And Donner,

Derivatives actually are based on physical things...like shares or bonds...they are just trading at a higher level....Lowest level - physical asset, 2nd level - Stock or bond in a company that has physical assets 3rd level - Options on stocks or bonds - focused on the potential future value and based on a company with a physical asset. 4th level Derivative- speculate on the value of the underlying asset, betting that the party seeking insurance will be wrong about the future value of the underlying asset

Carbon trading - Buy and selling on the wet dream of Al Gore - sold to the mindless - supported by academia hoping to cash in via government grants - pushed by liberals who hate america and people in general.

#25 | Posted by foshaffer at 2010-03-11 04:34 PM | Reply | Flag: not real bright

"On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air upon the Temperature of the Ground"

Derivatives actually are based on physical things..

You mean kinda like Carbon trading is based on....drum roll please!.....CARBON?

Derivatives - Buy and selling on the wet dream of Wall Street - sold to the mindless - supported by Bankers hoping to cash in via government grants - pushed by Republicans who hate America and People in general?

there....FTFY!

#28 | Posted by donnerboy at 2010-03-11 04:44 PM | Reply | Flag: Thinks bankers see red and blue instead of green.

Zat - lets just take the one you posted on the Council and you said " no Funding"...ok who is on the task force that decided not to make the change?

Robert K. Adair,
*** Primary funding for Adairs research is NASA - Currently being retasked by Obama to do climate change research. Gave 10K to the Obama for President comittee ****

David M. Ceperley,

*** Primarily funded by NASA ****

Alexander L. Fetter,

** Grants from the National Science Foundation - Partnerd with Steven Chu - Obama's Science Chief.***

Helen R. Quinn,

"What new technology do you think may actually have the potential for making people's lives better?
Helen: Which people? In the villages of Guatemala lots of people still cook over open fires a simple stove with a flue can save lots of trees and save their lungs too. For them that's new technology, and it would make their lives better, and reduce carbon dioxide production too. In general, technologies for efficient and clean energy production, storage, and use will be important if we want to reverse the alarming global climate trends."

All of them are department heads who's departments depend upon funding for Climate change research including University of Maryland, University of Illinois and Princton.

None of them are Climatologist - all are particle physics people.

I'm still waiting for Ringmaster or some other such genius to explain how the mile-high ice sheet atop Manhattan melted 12,000 years ago without the help of human CO2 emissions, or even George Bush....

This represents a very typical response of someone who doesn't understand the science in the first place. Jonryker was given a fair response. As a self declared teacher he should already have known about Milankovich cycles and their relationship to inter- glacial climate changes. He should also be able to grasp the time it took for these interglacial changes to occur. They were measured in thousands of years, not a few decades. He is just another example of an uneducated fool unable to grasp the truth because of stubborn adherence a to an outdated political ideal and a refusal to even read a logical response.

Fortunately for him, he is not alone. How many posters in this thread alone have declared they don't understand how the voluntary purchase of carbon credits can be an investment, yet already 188,000,000 such credits were voluntarily sold already.

The reason of course is that the really intelligent people with the big money operations understand what it means to invest in the future. They understand the need to use conservative tactics to ensure their success in the future, and they are educated enough to know that what the neo-cons have been preaching about climate change (and the denial of it) is not just bullshit, but a threat to be dealt with by a concerted effort to reduce the negative effects of uncontrolled industrial pollution. They understand that it will take money to educate the masses and lot's of labor to replant forests, clean up pollution and invent better technology to control indudstry and mankind's mess.

I must say that after several years of reading the comments of the likes of aflak, sniper, jonryker, bendor, KBM and dozen or more right wing know-it-alls, it is certainly understandable to me why they don't get this issue either. It's all a matter of education and intellect. Some have it and some just never will.

all are particle physics people.

#30 | Posted by foshaffer

and just one of their little pinky's is smarter than all of you apparently.

None of them are Climatologist - all are particle physics people.

Obviously I forgot to include foshaffer in the list of fools above. This last sentence pretty much says it all.

Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.

Cap and trade has not passed and is NOT law. Why would the government issue permits? Its a scam!!!!

#7 | Posted by Sniper at 2010-03-11 11:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

This is a test, this is only a test, if this were more than a test it would only come after the test before the the test of the test.

You would think people would learn that buying and selling something that doesn't exist is a bad idea.
#3 | Posted by STIRSUMUP
you mean like derivatives?

#24 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

FF..

The fucking right are a bunch of whining cunts. May they rot in peace.

The pioneering study, led by NOAA senior scientist Susan Solomon, shows how changes in surface temperature, rainfall, and sea level are largely irreversible for more than 1,000 years after carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions are completely stopped. The findings appear during the week of January 26 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences."

#26 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2010-03-11 04:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

When, in the history of the earth, have CO2 emissions ever "completely stopped"?

And it would be no wonder if all life on earth died if CO2 emissions ever did "completely stop".

CO2 emissions are essential for continued life (in all forms) on earth.

The paragraph above reaches a new level of quackery.

Doh!

I must say that after several years of reading the comments of the likes of aflak, sniper, jonryker, bendor, KBM and dozen or more right wing know-it-alls, it is certainly understandable to me why they don't get this issue either. It's all a matter of education and intellect. Some have it and some just never will.
#31 | POSTED BY RINGMASTER

and they are too stupid to understand that this was proposed in the 1980's by the Reagan administration as a solution to curb emissions. One of my undergrad professors that worked at the EPA and was a Reaganite that was all for it.. I guess the natives that worship the false god didn't get the memo.

#36 | Posted by BENDOveR at 2010-03-11 07:53 PM | Reply | Flag: breathtakingly stupid

I'll wager we won't be reading any of BENDOveR's publications in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences anytime soon.

Carbon offsets are just Al Gore (& company) trying to make money off of people buying a "indulgence" in much the same way that the Catholic Church used to sell indulgences for sins.

An offset won't decrease the carbon...it just allows someone to generate more carbon. Same way you could sin and pay for it instead of saying 30 Hail Marys or such.

But still a fraud. Al "ConMan" Gore.

This is just a money making gig for the overcompensated traders of Wall Street who in reality produce nothing of worth.

actually it's the Chicago Mec aka CME group
with MS GS JPM CS BAC, Yes the Big Boyz
I'm pretty certain Gore's hedge fund holding huge SHORT positions as this has been a looser since 2007 inception

Well if I can emit a ton of carbon for $2 I fail to see how cap-n-trade will "bring down the economy" as so many have claimed.

Let's see... one gallon of gas produces 19 lbs of CO2. So the carbon tax on a gallon of gas would be: two whole cents.

So are you guys just terrible at math or what?

"Bring down the economy", "bring down the country"....

That's all they have. What have the GOP done to help anyone but their fat cat donors the past 15 years?

Coupla of things here.

First, there is no article linked here.

43 comments and Spud's the only one to click the link and discover this?

Here's the link Spud found.

What have the GOP done to help anyone but their fat cat donors the past 15 years?

Oh, and THIS!

Be Well.

CARBON CREDIT atually means USED UP GASOLINE

Only in America can they trade USED UP MATERIALS for money.

This market needs to crash.

concerning: An offset won't decrease the carbon...it just allows someone to generate more carbon. Same way you could sin and pay for it instead of saying 30 Hail Marys or such.

Interesting analogy since the same people invented both farces anyway.

Amen.

Carbon indulgences: Global Warming High Priest Al Gore

Sin indulgences: Bishop/Cardinal {Middle Ages}

Interesting analogy since the same people invented both farces anyway.

Let's get real here. Penance was as scam that did nothing useful but ease peoples conscience. Cap n trade is nothing of the sort. It's a way to generate money for real projects that help lower pollution and at the same time offer incentive to improve the efficiency of the worst polluters on the planet.

Ask yourself this, why do republicans want to live in a toilet bowl? Apparently they like it. Most of these idiot republicans here would rather go back to the days when cars belched smoke so bad you couldn't see past a block away and going fishing was something you did to waste time because you couldn't eat the fish.

Wake up you foolish greed mongers. You owe it to your children and spouses even if you don't give a damn about the rest of society. What good is all your money if you only use it to soil your own environment? Get a real life. Screwing the pouch is a waste of time. It won't make babies and the even the dog won't like you.

"...changes in surface temperature, rainfall, and sea level are largely irreversible for more than 1,000 years after carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions are completely stopped..."

Irreversible if CO2 emissions stopped? What fucking sort of scientific quackery is this? All life on the planet would die if CO2 emissions completely stopped.

Do you guys even think about the stuff you promote?

"Do you guys even think"

#50 | Posted by BENDOveR at 2010-03-12 04:45 PM | Reply | Flag: hasn't had one thought yet

Fig 1: Arctic sea-ice extent and CO2
(a) Time series of annual arctic sea-ice extent and atmospheric concentrations of CO2 for 1900-2007. Sea-ice observations are from the Walsh and Chapman dataset 1900-78, merged with sea-ice concentration retrieved from satellite passive-microwave data (1979-2007) using the NORSEX algorithm, with ice extent updated to 2007. The CO2 scale is inverted.

All life on the planet would die if CO2 emissions completely stopped

Really Bendor, you couldn't read between the lines and discern that sentence is talking about anthropogenic CO2 emissions?

LRN2ENGLISH.