Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Wednesday, March 10, 2010

Think Progress: As the outlook on passage of health reform improves, Republicans have shifted to a new obstructionist strategy: attacking the process of reconciliation. Republicans claim that reconciliation was only intended to be used for bills dealing closely with the budget. In fact, when Republicans were in power, GOP lawmakers used reconciliation numerous times to pass major domestic policy legislation, including the Bush tax cuts in 2001 and 2003 and important changes to health care policy. Thirty-four of the 41 Senate Republicans have used reconciliation in the past to pass major pieces of domestic policy.

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In 2005, Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH) famously defended reconciliation as "majority rules." Think Progress has compiled a video of some of these 34 senators who have, in the past, defended reconciliation and railed against the filibuster. Some highlights:

"If you've got 51 votes for your position, you win." Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH), 3/15/05

"For some time, I hoped that my colleagues who oppose reform would allow a majority in both bodies to prevail and do what the vast majority of the American public desires." Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), 10/15/99

"It [the filibuster] is the product of a rule of the Senate passed many years after the ratification of the Constitution. This rule does not derive from the authority of the Constitution." Sen. Kit Bond (R-MO), 5/19/05

"Filibusters are neither an idea of the founding fathers nor a historical tradition of the Senate." Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK), 4/27/05
thinkprogress.org

Doc,

You do realize that I can provide comparable quotes from the DNC during their recent minority status citing the wisdom of filibusters. Hell, I can even provide a quote from Obama himself flat-out stating that to pass healthcare reform with 50+1 vote is a lack of governance.

Both parties are hypocritical and both are willing to do whatever necessary to pass their agenda.

The Dems are right to point to the GOP using reconciliation to pass certain pieces of legislation. However, the BIGGEST difference is that EVERY time it was done since this procedure was enacted in '74 the GOP's initiatives had MUCH stronger public support than this pile of shit healthbill. Another massive point of distinction is that measures such as welfare reform and tax cuts enjoyed far more legislative bi-partisan support than this used jock-strap of a bill known as Obamacare.

This is an issue where shades of gray are critical.

"Both parties are hypocritical and both are willing to do whatever necessary to pass their agenda."

I'm getting really tired of agreeing with you, Jeff.

;>)

Doc,

Agreeing with me is not a crime. Call me a 'Fop' and the fists will start swinging! ;-)

"Both parties are hypocritical and both are willing to do whatever necessary to pass their agenda."

One big difference Jeff, one of those two parties occasionally does pass something good for average working class Americans. The other purposely works to the detriment of most working Americans.

Agreeing with me is not a crime. Call me a 'Fop' and the fists will start swinging! ;-)
#4 | Posted by JeffJ

Flying handbags at twenty paces

FAIR AND BALANCED>.

listen to clips of hillary and kerry and biden who prayed to God that gop didnt use it

and of course

"reconciliation compromises the will of the people"

barak obama...jr senator from Ill.

just thought I would make sure some here who dont know better understood the hypocricy of this thread

And the Dems were against reconciliation before they were for it.

Maybe there's a difference between using reconciliation to pass budget items that Americans either support or are agnostic about, versus using it to overhaul 1/6 of the economy in a manner in which the vast majority of Americans are opposed.

Just sayin'.

and you would be 'just sayin' it CORRECTNOMONDO...

rasmussion poll shows 81% think obama care will be much more expensive than they are telling us..

The rules change when the GOP aren't in power. They're suddenly against their own ideas when Obama embraces them - like the "Deficit Commission".

Here, just mention Bush and the trolls come out of the woodwork.

Same folks who blamed Clinton every chance they got 6+ years after he'd been in office suddenly change the rules and say we should 'live in the present' and can't talk about the 'past' anymore.

Rule changing?

www.youtube.com
www.youtube.com

Yes, Reps have used the nuclear option, and the Dems should have no qualms about using it. It's a tool at their disposal, just like it was when Reps used it and everyone griped about it.

It's a tool at their disposal, just like it was when Reps used it and everyone griped about it.

They should have used it during the Bush administration, but they didn't. So now they sit back and bitch about Bush instead retrospectively asking why they didn't use the tools at their disposal to keep him from running amok. Amazing

Goat are you talking about the filibuster or reconciliation? Either way, its all relative to whose in power for some posters on here.

Filibuster, actually. I knew I'd get asked that just after I hit the post button.

So now they sit back and bitch about Bush instead retrospectively asking why they didn't use the tools at their disposal to keep him from running amok. Amazing

What's amazing is you finally admitting Bush was running amok. Until September 2008 you couldn't find a single thing to bitch about Dubya. Or the GOPpers in general, for that matter.

What's amazing is you finally admitting Bush was running amok. Until September 2008 you couldn't find a single thing to bitch about Dubya. Or the GOPpers in general, for that matter.

???

From day one on this blog I have said I didn't like Bush as a president. I've also been consistent in maintaining that both parties are the same. IN fact, if you looked at my lifetime voting record, you'd see I've voted for far more Ds than Rs.

WTF are you talking about, ng?

You dems want to use it - go for it: and pay the consequences :)

So what.

And the Dems hated it when there was talk of using it for SCOTUS voting.

Both sides use it--or anything for that matter to get their agenda thru.

From the most ethical congress ever:

"Democrats Attempting Rule Change in House That Would Pass Senate Bill Without An Actual Vote on the Senate Bill"

"to escape the rule that if the Senate bill is passed with changes or alterations the bill must be re-voted on in the Senate, which would invoke the filibuster. So they're trying to create some bizarre new "rule" that says "We're making changes to this law, and passing it with those changes, but we're counting it as 'not changed.'"

"This is the typical nonsense desperate leftists try. If you can't do it by the rules, change the rules, and rely on the media to pretend what you've done is perfectly reasonable."

ace.mu.nu

"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who has long been opposed to changing the filibuster, said Wednesday that the Senate was "likely" going to have to make changes to the tool next year complaining that it has been abused by Republicans."
www.riehlworldview.com

Harry Reid is a firm believer that if you repeat a lie enough times it becomes true. The filibuster has been abused by Republicans? Are we to excuse Dingy Harry because he doesn't realize the Republicans have not used the filibuster at all during Obama's administration? WTF?

Before 1981...

I suppose the country is due a little tit for tat now?

" The filibuster has been abused by Republicans?"

I guess it depends on your definition of "abused". Once Dems took over in January 2007, Republicans set the all-time record for filibusters in less than half the time.

"Are we to excuse Dingy Harry because he doesn't realize the Republicans have not used the filibuster at all during Obama's administration?"

Flag: / Flunked civics class

"Call me a 'Fop' and the fists will start swinging! ;-)
#4 | Posted by JeffJ"

Given the "combatants," more like the "wrists" will start swinging.

Reconciliation was NEVER, NEVER, NEVER intended to sneak through a huge,totally partisan entitlement program which the American people reject by a margin of 2 to 1. No, the Republican have not used the process in such a way. That the Dems intend to points out how loathesome they truly are.

The bills have already passed by a majority and a supermajority in the Senate (60 votes).

Ah, shall we hear about Bush's $2 Trillion tax cuts - "Entitlement for the rich" - passed via reconciliation. Guess what? They added $2 Trillion to the national debt. Never scored for how they'd affect deficits like the HCR bills have.

Even Republicons know they are taking filibusters to extreme as of late. Typical of their ham fisted approach to everything.

If a Congressional rule exists, the Democrats should use it to exercise their majority. It's why they were elected. When the Republicans are in power again, they won't hesitate to use reconciliation to pass their agenda. The American people care about results, not the parliamentary procedures necessary to achieve those results. If the health care reform bill passes, it will be judged on its merits. I think it's a good bill that will lower the cost of health care in this country for most Americans.

From day one on this blog I have said I didn't like Bush as a president. I've also been consistent in maintaining that both parties are the same. IN fact, if you looked at my lifetime voting record, you'd see I've voted for far more Ds than Rs.
WTF are you talking about, ng?

#17 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

Nobody can look into your lifetime voting record, and you know that.
I am on this blog for 6 years: NEVER was there any bipartisan posting.
ALL postings were closely following the actual GOP position.

There is a quite movement in the Senate to put a public option back in the plan. 40 Senators are on board. They should include it if they're truly representative. A public option has consistently polled 57-77% approval in poll after poll.

Additionaly, as has been said before, the HCR bills have already passed the House with a majority and the Senate with a Supermajority.

"
So what.

And the Dems hated it when there was talk of using it for SCOTUS voting."

Yes they did but when presented with the liklihood that the Rethugs would execute the real nuclear option (not just reconciliation as some lying right wing hacks try to pretend) they negotiated through the "gang of 14" and allowed the REpublican appointee to be confirmed. I don't see any such willingness to negotiate now on the part of the party of NO.

#27 | Posted by rcade

Obamacare is ridiculously unpopular with the public.

That sure is one helluva reason to utilize parlimentary tricks to get this shit passed.

shall we hear about Bush's $2 Trillion tax cuts - "Entitlement for the rich" - passed via reconciliation

--AMERICANUNITY

Only a libtard can claim a tax cut as an entitlement! You fricking moron it is your money taken from you. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO IT! Power by the consent of the governed?!?!

This is to not suggest I debate the tax cuts as valid or timely, or politically savvy (though my bias is towards smaller government), but to claim that people are not entitled to their own money is just lunacy.

think it's a good bill that will lower the cost of health care in this country for most Americans.

#27 | Posted by rcade

I highly doubt you actually believe that.

Is it the best bill it could be?

No.

If it was there would be a public option and no mandate to buy insurance.

Is it better than just allowing the current FAILed system to continue causing mass bankrupcies?

Hells, yeah.

Be Well.

Obamacare is ridiculously unpopular with the public.

Until you ask them about the stuff that's actually in the bill and then they actually do like it.

The mostly RW propagandizing against this bill has demonized it to a ridiculous extent.

Be Well.

Seriuosly Rcade.

If this bill is SO good, why all of the chicanery?

Why the rush to pass it before recess?

Why are Dems, with huge majorities in both houses, having so much difficulty garnering the necessary votes from within their own party?

Why were all of the criminal backroom deals necessary?

This bill is a colossal piece of shit.

Scrap it and start over.

What is truly sad is that I believe that it has better than a 50% chance of passing - I don't think enough principled AND courageous Dems exist in the house to do the right thing. Having said that, if they don't pass it before recess, the odds go up exponentially that it won't pass - the moment some of these wavering Dems get an earful from their livid constituents, enough will fall that it will make it nearly impossible to pass. Hence the deadlines. Fact is, Pelosi doesn't have the votes right now. If she did, this would be on the floor as I am typing this. I would pay money to watch the behind-the-scenes threats, arm-twistings and bribes that are surely occurring right now.

Is it better than just allowing the current FAILed system to continue causing mass bankrupcies?

-- DETHSPUD

Wait ... people went bankrupt because 18 million couldn't buy insurance??? What exactly does this current bill do to prevent such travesties? How in the middle of a recession will forcing everyone to pay higher taxes AND insurance premiums without getting benefits for 3-5 years help???

(Don't dare throw that inflated 46 million number at me either; I know the game.)

Until you ask them about the stuff that's actually in the bill and then they actually do like it.

When asked piece-meal - do you want to eliminate the denials for pre-existing conditions? Who doesn't? This bill, as a whole, is a pile of shit and most of the public knows it.

The mostly RW propagandizing against this bill has demonized it to a ridiculous extent.

Pro-reform advertising spending has exceeded anti-"reform" spending by 5-1 (and that doesn't even take into account the bully-pulpit - Obama has now given 38 speeches propping this attrocity). Get a new talking point.

"How in the middle of a recession will forcing everyone to pay higher taxes AND insurance premiums without getting benefits for 3-5 years help???"

Have your taxes increased???

The mostly RW propagandizing against this bill has demonized it to a ridiculous extent.

-- DETHSPUD

I agree with this statement ... yet I have read the bill (err ... most of it) and it is a massive government program to attack only one symptom of the problem. People don't want an aspirin for their headache while they are gushing blood from the brain.

"Scrap it and start over."

OK Sen. McConnel, we'll take advice from the Party of No. Riiight. That tired and dishonest talking point repeated by every Rethug from coast to coast is just code for no health care reform and everyone knows it, especially those repeating it like Jeff.

"yet I have read the bill (err ... most of it)"

Which bill did you read?

Have your taxes increased???

--DANNI

They will to pay for all of the subsidies in this bill. Not one member of congress will honestly deny that statement.

ALL postings were closely following the actual GOP position.

Funny. I thought support for the Iraqi war was generally a GOP position and I've been quite consistentent on my criticism of it. I've also been quite consistent in views to keep prayer and religion out of school -- generally a GOP position. I've also said I have no problem with early term abortion. I've stated I see nothing wrong with legalization of pot. I'm cool with gay rights.There are others, of course, but I've proven you wrong with this list.

But you read what you want to read and see what you want to see just like the other idiots who want to stuff me into their perfectly consructed mold, don't you, fribo? Why is stuffing me into that mold so important to you and others, fribo -- so important that you make bold, untrue claims like yours?

Which bill did you read?

-- DANNI

H.R.3590

Danni,

Doing nothing is better than making things worse which is precisely what this bill will do.

Have your taxes increased???

They will and so will yours.

Scrap it and start over.

What is truly sad is that I believe that it has better than a 50% chance of passing - I do not think enough principled AND courageous Dems exist in the House to do the right thing.

Nah. What's truly sad is that some people are perfectly happy keeping the existing dishonest system in place. Until it bites you in butt.

JEFF

That's simple presumption based on nothing but your opinion.

The right wing has found a niche throwing out one baseless supposition after another - none of which have panned out. Just what they 'think' will happen.

On the Back Page there's a 240+ thread about how Obama's gonna have granny arrested for fishing by the family pond. Which is one 'conservatives' 'opinion' on ESPN. The editor had to write a piece stating that. No one, including the conservative who assumes sports fishing will be going the way of the Model T thanks to Obama has seen the water use plan. Just presumption. Period.

Isn't it time for all the ridiculous right wing memes to stop?

"They will and so will yours."

Probably we need them to, we have a huge debt which isn't going away. Republicans are great at running up debt but they are dead beats when it comes to repaying what we owe.

" Just what they 'think' will happen."

The people creating the talking points know better, they depend on the gullible fools to repeat whatever they put out there.

"How in the middle of a recession will forcing everyone to pay higher taxes AND insurance premiums without getting benefits for 3-5 years help???"

Have your taxes increased???

#39 | Posted by danni

Are you just talking Federal Taxes? Or does Property tax, Sales tax, Wheel tax and State tax apply?

Reconcilliation WILL NOT be used to pass the bill, it MIGHT be used to make adjustments to it. The health care bill, 2 versions of it, have already been passed without the use of reconcilliation. Saying that they are going to use it to PASS the bill is not the truth. I wonder why so many of you AND the "liberal" media are telling fibs about it.

Why the rush to pass it before recess?

Because realistically a POTUS only has 18 months from innaugeration to pass legislation before the mid term campaigning starts and nothing can get done.

Wait ... people went bankrupt because 18 million couldn't buy insurance???

The people went bankrupt were not only the uninsured and under-insured but the insured as well.

BACKGROUND: Our 2001 study in 5 states found that medical problems contributed to at least 46.2% of
all bankruptcies. Since then, health costs and the numbers of un- and underinsured have increased, and
bankruptcy laws have tightened.
METHODS: We surveyed a random national sample of 2314 bankruptcy filers in 2007, abstracted their court
records, and interviewed 1032 of them. We designated bankruptcies as "medical" based on debtors' stated
reasons for filing, income loss due to illness, and the magnitude of their medical debts.
RESULTS: Using a conservative definition, 62.1% of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92% of these
medical debtors had medical debts over $5000, or 10% of pretax family income. The rest met criteria for
medical bankruptcy because they had lost significant income due to illness or mortgaged a home to pay medical
bills. Most medical debtors were well educated, owned homes, and had middle-class occupations. Three
quarters had health insurance.
Using identical definitions in 2001 and 2007, the share of bankruptcies attributable
to medical problems rose by 49.6%. In logistic regression analysis controlling for demographic factors,
the odds that a bankruptcy had a medical cause was 2.38-fold higher in 2007 than in 2001.
CONCLUSIONS: Illness and medical bills contribute to a large and increasing share of US bankruptcies.

www.pnhp.org

People don't want an aspirin for their headache while they are gushing blood from the brain.

Agreed this bill doesn't do enough but to argue that it's gonna make things worse as Jeff continually asserts is asinine.

Be Well.

Republicans are great at running up debt but they are dead beats when it comes to repaying what we owe

--Danni

Danni... what did your mother tell you about throwing stones in glass houses? Most of the debt (before the Regan and Bush disasters) was owed because of massive unfunded social entitlements passed by democrats. You may know it today as FICA.

You want to introduce a bill that raises takes and pays off foreign owed debt, I am first in line to reelect the President for that. You want to create another social entitlement program because the Republicans spent so much money in the Bush and Regan years and you don't feel like you have gotten your chance to shove it up the ass of the American Public, then ... well ... I just cant get behind that.

AU,

I certainly agree that the 'fishing thread' is purely speculative claptrap.

I also acknowledge that I am being a bit speculative on this thread as well. However, I have history on my side. The CBO scoring depends on bullshit assumptions that will never pass the final bill - right now Medicare already reimburses at a rate below cost for providers. Do you honestly believe the doc-fix will stand? More importantly should it? And if it does, what happens to the care that seniors are accustomed to?

If the Doc fix is abolished, what happens to the rosy projections of deficit-neutrality? They go away.

Also, the Cadillac-plan tax requires a seperate measure down the road, with unions exempt for an additional 5-years, of course. To the best of my knowledge, the CBO scoring occurred PRIOR to that little sweetheart deal given to the unions. That little deal alone pushes this shit into the red. Also, let's look at the history of massive government entitlement projections relative to what turned out to be their true costs once enacted. Medicare anyone?

This bill is a fiscal nightmare and WILL result in higher taxes accross the board. Yes Danni, even you will pay more in taxes to fund this crimial piece of legislation.

I am barely scratching the surface.

There's a VERY big reason that Obama and the Dems had no response (and still don't) to Paul Ryan's thrashing of their numbers and assumptions.

Republicans are great at running up debt but they are dead beats when it comes to repaying what we owe.

Absolutely. They suck ass. They really do.

What is your excuse for this Dem-controlled government accelerating that shit 5-fold?

Lemme guess, it's all Reagan's fault - right?

"Are you just talking Federal Taxes? Or does Property tax, Sales tax, Wheel tax and State tax apply?"

I'm talking all taxes, my income tax was lowered, my property taxes have fallen dramatically and the sales tax I pay has remained the same.

"Most of the debt (before the Regan and Bush disasters) was owed because of massive unfunded social entitlements passed by democrats."

Oh, and the tax cuts passed under both were just coincidences. Ridiculous. Another clown who believes the right wing talking points.

"What is your excuse for this Dem-controlled government accelerating that shit 5-fold?"

Did you read the article posted on the back page from Bloomberg???? How the economy is definitely recovering??? How the stimulus definitely contributed to it???
As Al Gore might say, inconvenient truths, only this time spoken by a Republican.

The people went bankrupt were not only the uninsured and under-insured but the insured as well.

...

Agreed this bill doesn't do enough but to argue that it's gonna make things worse as Jeff continually asserts is asinine.

--DETHSPUD

First, your study is from 2001?!?!

Second, this is my point. The problem is not insurance, it is health care costs. Something that this bill does almost nothing to control and mostly likely exacerbate.

Third, this is not horse shoes, hand grenades, or nuclear weapons. You cannot get close to solving the problem and pray the rest works itself out. That is not effective governance by the party in power.

"Lemme guess, it's all Reagan's fault - right?"

If by that you mean supply side economics which has destroyed every economy it has ever been used in then yes, but REagan was just the willing fool who enacted what Milton Friedman preached.

FLAGLERKID are you pretending that if we did not pass this bill there would be another real reform bill proposed by Republicans???
I hope not because I don't want to think anyone is really that foolish.
Oh, I know they want "tort reform" and the ability to shop across state lines. Both things are addressed in this bill, just not in the radical fashion Republicans want.

"Most of the debt (before the Regan and Bush disasters) was owed because of massive unfunded social entitlements passed by democrats."

Oh, and the tax cuts passed under both were just coincidences. Ridiculous. Another clown who believes the right wing talking points.

--DANNI

You have your head up and locked, don't you. AND, you are hardly one to point fingers at partisanship!!! You drank deep the democratic coolaid.

Personal comments aside ... since I see you have nothing substantive to refute my arguments I will just reiterate the fact that paying off the debt and passing health care are two diametrically opposed legislative agendas that are not reconciled by pointing the finger at the Bush or Regan tax cuts.

"I will just reiterate the fact that paying off the debt and passing health care are two diametrically opposed legislative agendas that are not reconciled by pointing the finger at the Bush or Regan tax cuts."

Well, unless you ask the CBO who says your are absolutely wrong. It will reduce the deficit, the tax cuts did largely create the debt. I know you don't like to deal with facts but sometimes they are unavoidable, especially when you are arguing with me.

FLAGLERKID are you pretending that if we did not pass this bill there would be another real reform bill proposed by Republicans???

I hope not because I don't want to think anyone is really that foolish.

Oh, I know they want "tort reform" and the ability to shop across state lines. Both things are addressed in this bill, just not in the radical fashion Republicans want.

-- DANNI

I agree with you 100%. The Republicans have not shown that they can lead on this topic either ... the difference is that their party (an you notice I used their and not our since I have never been a member of the Republican party) is not in power.

Tort reform may be a piece of the puzzle but we also need patent reform, insurance regulation, and immigration reform to effectively combat the underlying problem.

How the economy is definitely recovering???

Do you realize how much business investment has declined since the so-called stimulus was passed?

We are on an unsustainable trajectory in regards to debt-to-GDP.

We are rapidly accelerating our deficits, under your beloved leftist DNC, to levels that will likely implode our entire economcy. National bankruptcy is possible - just ask Greece.

And YES, the GOP certainly owns some of this. But don't sit there and pretend that the Dems are faultless. The 2 biggest budgetary-drains, by far, are Social Security and Medicare. Are those GOP initiatives? Ponzi-schemes eventually collapse. Every time. This will be no different. But, it will still be Reagan's fault that the New Deal and the Great Society bankrupted this nation.

"Tort reform may be a piece of the puzzle but we also need patent reform, insurance regulation, and immigration reform to effectively combat the underlying problem."

This bill is insurance reform. The other parts of that puzzle need to be dealt with but not in a health care bill.

"Do you realize how much business investment has declined since the so-called stimulus was passed?"

And you attribute that to the stimulus bill instead of the recession???
Preposterous. Dishonest.

Well, unless you ask the CBO who says your are absolutely wrong. It will reduce the deficit, the tax cuts did largely create the debt. I know you don't like to deal with facts but sometimes they are unavoidable, especially when you are arguing with me.

--DANNI

The CBO estimates are only for the 10 year projections that have been manipulated by starting the taxing early and the benefits late. They further are based on the economic growth models of the early 2000s, which do not take into account the impact that the extra taxes will have on the economy.

And one thing I have come to know about you Danni is your loose affiliation with facts and looser affiliation with intellectual honesty.

"But, it will still be Reagan's fault that the New Deal and the Great Society bankrupted this nation."

Oh it wasn't Iraq, tax cuts and outsourcing???

Jeff, thanks for the laugh.

This bill is insurance reform. The other parts of that puzzle need to be dealt with but not in a health care bill.

--DANNI

All of these problems contribute to the current health care crisis. If you only want to pass insurance reform then call it that and stop being dishonest by calling it Health Care reform.

"They further are based on the economic growth models of the early 2000s, which do not take into account the impact that the extra taxes will have on the economy."

WE can clearly see that tax cuts have ruined the country, taxes will not harm the economy, the belief that we can enact tax cuts during wars is what destroys economies. BEing responsible, raising the taxes to pay off debt will help the economy. It always has. If you really want to help the economy then support the Public Option or single payer. This bill only represents a starting point on the way to actually try and reduce health care costs. Just saying no won't solve anything.

And you attribute that to the stimulus bill instead of the recession???

Actually, I don't.

It was YOU who was touting the success (unattributed of course) of the stimulus and I simply called you out - business investments have dropped considerably since it was enacted - this is an undeniable fact. Now, you can argue that it would have been worse had it not passed. Fine. However, the facts (at this point) suggest that this spending of money we don't have not only failed to actually stimulate our economy, but also made things worse by adding to our debt.

"If you only want to pass insurance reform then call it that and stop being dishonest by calling it Health Care reform."

If you listen to the President lately he does refer to it as insurance reform.

#71 | Posted by danni

Actually, I agree with much of that.

However, tax cuts MUST be commensurate with spending cuts.

The federal budget has 2-sides to the ledger - let's attack both sides.

Why the rush to pass it before recess?

Why the rush? The bill's been deliberated on for at least six months now and probably longer.

People who oppose universal health care think that every negative response to the current bill is from people who think just like them. But half of the opposition, at least, is from people who want the current bill to do more.

If the Dems cowboy up and pass this thing, it will help them in the long run. If they give it up now, liberals and other Dems will sit on their hands in November and give Congress back to Republicans.

This bill only represents a starting point on the way to actually try and reduce health care costs.

--DANNI

And my argument is that this starting point is the ending point. You cannot expect to pass a bill on a wink and a nod that there will be more to follow and that will be passed with any competence, speed, or diligence. The American public is not that stupid, and if not them, I am not that stupid!

Jeff, read this and then come back with new talking points.

www.drudge.com

"However, tax cuts MUST be commensurate with spending cuts."

Spending cuts need to come later, we do not need to increase unemployment until we are out of recession.

"You cannot expect to pass a bill on a wink and a nod that there will be more to follow and that will be passed with any competence, speed, or diligence."

Tell Bill Clinton that.
In our political world change is nearly impossible, this bill represents the most reform possible in the real world today. Incremental change is the only way to make progress with our political system as it operates today. You think I am proud of this bill??? Hell no, it is far from what I wanted but I accept the opinions of those like Wendell Potter who know more than I, he says pass the bill, he knows the insurance industry, I follow his advice.

Tell Bill Clinton that

--DANNI

Thanks for the wink ... and good job with the nod. I am still not buying. Give me real reform or go home.

This country is capable of great change during moments of great leadership. The current congress/president has proven they do not have what it takes to provide great leadership and are trying to ram home a half assed bill to save their jobs. It is time to send them home.

Danni,

Do you want to play musical links?

I can cite several that support my POV.

I can out-link your link in 4-notes AND I can use velcro and attach your bullshit link to your mustache or your under-arm hair. Your choice.

*Chair's on vacation so I had to step-up my insults in defiance of Rcade's bias*

Why the rush to pass it before recess?
#36 | Posted by JeffJ

Probably so we don't have to listen to the GOPers whine about the "rush" to reform health care, which they've been doing since last year.

which they've been doing since last year.

which they've been doing FOR a year.

FTFY

The bill's been deliberated on for at least six months now and probably longer.

I agree that it has been debated to death.

Oh, and BTW, where are all of those GOP ideas that Obama liked in the final legislation?

IF they exist at all, please show me.

Also - why the push to get it passed before the next recess? It couldn't have anything to do with wavering congressmen getting an earful from a pissed-off constituency, could it?

Probably so we don't have to listen to the GOPers whine about the "rush" to reform health care, which they've been doing since last year.

#81 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2010-03-11 09:22 AM

I can't wait to hear how many lives it saved because it passed this year, even though it will be three years before it is enacted. I wonder if the dems will have a reunion of all the people they brought in to tell their horror stories about Insurance Companies in 2013.

This country is capable of great change during moments of great leadership.

That's a little naive.

America is a country that is ruled by a corporate duopoly posing as a functioning representative democratic republic.

This has been true fer generations now.

The two parties are both dependent on donations from the 400 richest families in the country and corporate dough, both domestic and international, in order to get elected and then re-elected.

Last election over 100 major corporations gave huge wads of cash to BOTH parties.

The will of the people and their long term needs and wants are given short shrift in order to facilitate a corporate agenda.

In light of that grim reality any change that comes to America through legislation is doomed to mediocrity. Doomed to be either crushed coming out the gate or de-clawed through lobbied loopholes and demonized in the MSM.

The way they are able to get away with is because the country is divided by social issues that never seem to find resolution.

The pro-life, anti-gay right point fingers at the pro-choice, pro-equal rights left thus ensuring that the politicians never find an electorate united against them.

Obviously the information age has helped matters somewhat. The low approval numbers of the Legislative branch of government bear out the idea that more folks are waking up to the untenable situation they find themselves in.

Within that context the idea that a single leader can change everything single-handedly is preposterous.

Spud holds to the idea that Obama is a well intentioned leader who is being stymied by the realities of his own need to please the powers-that-be as well as by the thoroughly corrupted congress and senate.

He's a good actor in a bad play.

Until corporate money is removed from the electoral process there can be no real change. The latest BS decision by the SCOTUS that money equals free speech dictates that things will only get worse from here on in.

Spud's 2 cents.

/Don't you just hate Canadian change?

Be Well.

"I can't wait to hear how many lives it saved because it passed this year, even though it will be three years before it is enacted."

I suppose nearly anything's possible in the parallel universe.

That "I can't wait to hear how many lives it saved because it passed this year, even though it will be three years before it is enacted" bit of sophistry belongs in the same joke book as "Torture works" and "Torture saved lives." I'll make sure it gets into the new edition. Thanks for the contribution.

Oh, and BTW, where are all of those GOP ideas that Obama liked in the final legislation?

The same place as Republicans willing to compromise and vote for health care reform. The Republicans who have proposed changes to the bill have never been willing to vote for the final package. So why should they expect any of their ideas in the bill?

That's a little naive.

--DETHSPUD

Perhaps. But, it was not too long ago that a great leader from Alabama changed race relations in this country forever. He paid with his life for his courage and left the world a better place then when he entered it.

Your rant about corporations corrupting the government may be correct ... but the real power still lies in the people. I believe that The People can be moved to greatness at the hands of a great leader and no amount of corporate influence will matter.

Forgive my optimism. I know it has no place in the DR.

"This country is capable of great change during moments of great leadership."

In an era dominated by cable news and with some channels being entirely devoted to opposing the Democrats and any liberal or progressive idea it is virtually impossible for any so called "great leader" to emerge because they will be attacked unmercilessly, 365/7/24 and convince millions of unsophisticated people that any significant reform is really a giant take over of the nation by radical Communists. Considering the money and media intent upon bringing down the Obama presidency and the Democratic majority it is simply amazing that they are able to even be where they are on health care reform.

#87...

If the dems claim thousands of people die every year because they lack health insurance, is it not reasonable to assume, some of those same people that were brought in to tell their stories will be part of those thousands? Will the thousands of people who are denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions, still not be covered until 2013? Will the number of people who are forced to file bankruptcy because of medical expenses be any lower today if this passes?

We already know insurance companies will get $70 billion, the costs will go up and it does nothing to reform healthcare. Sounds like a real winner... For repubs in November.

"Forgive my optimism. I know it has no place in the DR."

I love optimism but I fear it always leads to disappointment.
Actually, I've been accused of being an eternal optimist myself.

Considering the money and media intent upon bringing down the Obama presidency and the Democratic majority it is simply amazing that they are able to even be where they are on health care reform.

--DANNI

You cannot blame inept leadership on conspiracy theories that the MSM has all of a sudden turned conservative and is actively trying to pull down Obama. That is a step too far.

"The Republicans who have proposed changes to the bill have never been willing to vote for the final package."

I agree with Obama, it needs to be voted on today. Why won't Pelosi listen? Bring it to the floor and have a vote. Where is the outrage from dems? Does she not want reform?

I've never thought that of you, DAnni. Quite the opposite, as seen in your post #90. That's pessimism, not optimism

34 Repub Senators Have Used Reconciliation

Posted by Doc_Sarvis

So What? They had the support of the American people! This bill does not!!

Doc, do you want this bill to pass? Why?

I hear they're talking about something called "The Slaughter Option". Are they talking about this bill or next November?

I agree with Obama, it needs to be voted on today. Why won't Pelosi listen?

Pelosi will bring the vote when she has the votes.

I love it that she told Rahm to tell the President to quit throwing out time lines. She doesnt have bupkis.

"So What? They had the support of the American people!"

Prove it, Eddie.

I agree with Obama, it needs to be voted on today. Why won't Pelosi listen?

Pelosi will bring the vote when she has the votes.

#98 | Posted by rcade at 2010-03-11 10:26 AM |

Ah, so in other words, until another cornhusker kickback, Louisiana purchase can be agreed upon with enough dems? Is it any wonder why repubs are licking their chops if this passes?

Pelosi will bring the vote when she has the votes.

Evidentlty, she's gad them for quite some time. You guys are hopeless. LOL!:

March 1, 2010
Pelosi: We Have The Votes On Healthcare

Sept. 8, 2009
Pelosi and Reid Tell President: We Have the Votes

July 22, 2009
Pelosi: We Have the Votes to Pass Health Care

"If the dems claim thousands of people die every year because they lack health insurance, is it not reasonable to assume, some of those same people that were brought in to tell their stories will be part of those thousands?"

Perhaps. But that's not quite the same as "hear[ing] how many lives it saved because it passed this year, even though it will be three years before it is enacted."

so's my grammar

Maybe this time Pelosi won't be lying.
And maybe Charlie Rangel is an ethical politician.

"I love optimism but I fear it always leads to disappointment."

Isn't optimism another word for hope?

The irony.

She better get her ass in gear. The Messiah wants this done before he has to rise after 3 days...

Same folks who blamed Clinton every chance they got 6+ years after he'd been in office suddenly change the rules and say we should 'live in the present' and can't talk about the 'past' anymore.

#10 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

thats because the lying ass democratic socialist in the white house now makes clinton look more like a john bircher and our future wasnt really in question during the blowjob years like it is now.

Ah, shall we hear about Bush's $2 Trillion tax cuts - "Entitlement for the rich" - passed via reconciliation. Guess what? They added $2 Trillion to the national debt. Never scored for how they'd affect deficits like the HCR bills have.

#25 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010

I have a feeling we just did...lol

but of course when you use the danni MO of blaming the people who hire people as a scapegoat, then WONDER why those same people arent hiring anybody...well is that called a connundrum or what?

Small business owners have all kinds of new tax breaks. Including a tax credit for new hires and an exemption from paying payroll taxes on them.

What are you talking about. Where were the millions of new jobs those $2 Trillion in tax cuts got us, huh? We lost 8.4 million jobs during those years, we didn't ADD them. Real wages fell. Sorry, your premise is flawed.

thats because the lying ass democratic socialist in the white house now makes clinton look more like a john bircher and our future wasnt really in question during the blowjob years like it is now.

#108 | Posted by afkabl2

The future's in question because of the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression and highest national debt in history. You seriously want to lay all that on his doorstep? Guess so.

our future wasnt really in question during the blowjob years like it is now.
#108 | Posted by afkabl2

You strike me as someone whose future -- such as it is -- is probably always open to question. Whether you're meandering down Memory Lane dreamily recollecting the high cotton of the blowjob years or just shuffling around Looneyville's "Nacogdoches' Finest Chupacabra Burger Palace, Mama Mamou's Juke/Jerk Joint, and Public Libarry" staring at the kiddiwinks and waiting for a turn on the socialist computer.

".... Looneyville's "Nacogdoches' Finest Chupacabra Burger Palace, Mama Mamou's Juke/Jerk Joint, and Public Libarry..."

Mad skills. Its like Alice in Wonderland in your head.

*stands and applauds.

"Mad skills. Its like Alice in Wonderland in your head."

I suspect Doc has dived down the rabbit hole more than once.

I suspect Doc has dived down the rabbit hole more than once.
#114 | Posted by nullifidian

shhhh.

Its a secret.

;)

Diving down ye olde rabbit hole's got something going for it. But that looking glass can be a real bitch.

Prove it, Eddie.

#100 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

I asked you first. Sorry, but that's the way it works around here.

Prove to me that the people want to spend spend spend or STFU!!!

I asked you a question. Do you support the passage of this bill or are you just a political hack?


Diving down ye olde rabbit hole's got something going for it. But that looking glass can be a real bitch.

#116 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2010-03-11 11:49 AM | Reply | Flag: Self Retorting

This entire thread is a distraction to the real issue.

Who cares what Republicans did 20 years ago?

Perhaps. But that's not quite the same as "hear[ing] how many lives it saved because it passed this year, even though it will be three years before it is enacted."

#103 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

This is pure bullshit! Why throw the baby out with the bath water?

It is the responsibility of the state to make sure that everyone has access to healthcare. They are shirking this responsibility in lieu of a "Federal Program". No one can agree on a Federal Plan, so Pelosi needs to admit defeat so that the States can realize that they are still on the hook to get insurance premiums under control.

"Flag: Self Retorting"

A modest proposal: The next person to use that phrase "self-retort" ought to be waterboarded.

A modest proposal: The next person to use that phrase "self-retort" ought to be waterboarded.

#120 | Posted by nullifidian

A-Men.

It was actually quite clever the first thousand or so times it was used. But enough is enough.

A modest proposal: The next person to use that phrase "self-retort" ought to be waterboarded.

I'll vote for that bill if I can add some for my district:

"Last time I checked"
"Mother's basement"
"cognitive dissonance"


"Flag: Self Retorting"

A modest proposal: The next person to use that phrase "self-retort" ought to be waterboarded.

#120 | Posted by nullifidian

Why? It says so much in only 2 words?

Besides, I got it from Doc, originally. I just use it on his posts. Ironic.

"Last time I checked"
"Mother's basement"
"cognitive dissonance"

"Get back on your meds"
"Are you off your meds?"
"Put down the bong"
"Isn't it time for your fry-cook shift at BurgerKing/Mcdonald's/etc."

Eddie, you better hurry up. Put down the bong, get out of your mom's basement and get your ass to Burger King if you want to keep your job.

"Last time I checked"
"Mother's basement"
"cognitive dissonance"

"Get back on your meds"
"Are you off your meds?"
"Put down the bong"
"Isn't it time for your fry-cook shift at BurgerKing/Mcdonald's/etc."

"Priceless"
"SAT"
"OCD"
"You can't make this stuff up"
"One sentence generates three from you"

etc.

#125 | Posted by nullifidian

FF

but you could have included all of that list in your last post.

You forgot:
"Classic"

and from the archives:
"This shit just writes itself"

#126 | Posted by goatman

Nice try, but none of those are Drudge cliches.

Drudge Cliches:

1. Self-retorting retort

2. Fence sitter

3. Party above country

4. But Bush

5. But Clinton

But you could have included all of that list in your last post.

He could have, but he had not seen the letters G-O-A-T in succession yet. As I'm sure you've noticed,(it's hard to miss) my posts trigger a violent "anyone but goatman" knee-jerk reaction in him that in some cases force him to be hypocritical and even resort to outright lying -- even when I agree with him as I did in the one upthread.

Nope, I can't figure it out, either.

3. Party above country

Since woke's absence, this one has dropped by ~75%

My number one most used line: you are too stupid to understand, so expect to further responses.

Nice try, but none of those are Drudge cliches.

Who said they were? They are still mindless cliches adults shouldn't use.

BTY, I would add "nice try" to the growing list as well.

Please leave "swing and a miss" off your list. I LOVE that one.

"They are still mindless cliches "

Cliches are commonly used phrases, dumbshit. "One sentence generates three from you" is not a cliche. You know even less about what "cliche" means than the word "republic".

2. Fence sitter
...
#130 | Posted by kanrei

Hahaha. Ok, I won't call you a fence-sitter anymore, fence fluffer. ;)

"One sentence generates three from you" is not a cliche

Using your definition:

Cliches are commonly used phrases, dumbshit.
it is. You use that phrase quite frequently

(see what I mean about the "anyone but goatman" triggering the knee-jerk responses that brings out the hypocricy? LOL)

"Using your definition:

Cliches are commonly used phrases, dumbshit."

You dumbshit, commonly used by lots of people, not just one. Idiot.

You dumbshit, commonly used by lots of people, not just one.

I hate to use this cliche, but at least you'll understand.

You are moving the goalposts after the fact by re-defining the word. But those are the straws losers clutch at -- that and calling people "dumbshit" over and over. LOL

It's pointless arguing with people who don't understand the common meanings of words like "cliche" and "republic". Later.

2. Fence sitter
#130 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-03-11 12:32 PM | Reply | Flag: too close to home.

LOL. Let me guess, it was your number 1, but you couldn't bring yourself to click publish?

You dumbshit, commonly used by lots of people, not just one.

hmm. I looked it up. I don't see anything in the definition that says it has to be said by more than one person. I guess like "republic" you get to make up your own definition that no lexicographer agrees with or publishes, then declare victory. Yet another mark of the loser -- makes his own definitions of words and declares victory based on his own private version of the word. LOL

Main Entry: clich
Variant(s): also cliche klē-ˈshā, ˈklē-ˌ, kli-ˈ
Function: noun
Etymology: French, literally, printer's stereotype, from past participle of clicher to stereotype, of imitative origin
Date: 1892

1 : a trite phrase or expression; also : the idea expressed by it
2 : a hackneyed theme, characterization, or situation
3 : something (as a menu item) that has become overly familiar or commonplace

www.merriam-webster.com

It's pointless arguing with people who don't understand the common meanings of words like "cliche"

Then cite a dictionary source that agrees with you dull, or STFU since you are unable to admit when you are wrong.

#130 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-03-11 12:32 PM |

What happened to "party of no" in the list? I guess because it is the dems who are now the party of no moving this bill forward it lost its cache? Not saying you used it, but it was popular at one time.

It was not my number 1, as only a few people use it and it. I am only a fence sitter here because the left moved the fence and started acting like the right. They don't even know what the term means as I have very clear positions on many issues. It is the term loved by hypocrits and partisan hacks.

The people creating the talking points know better, they depend on the gullible fools to repeat whatever they put out there.

#51 | Posted by danni at 2010-03-11 08:32 AM

You certainly don't mean talking points like this one do you???? lol

"Republicans are great at running up debt but they are dead beats when it comes to repaying what we owe"

"our future wasnt really in question during the blowjob years like it is now."

None of us have ever claimed that succeeding George H. W. Bush was as horrible as having to succeed George W. Bush.

It is the term loved by hypocrits and partisan hacks.
#146 | Posted by kanrei

Am I mistaken in reading a somewhat adversarial response from you?

I am always being facetious when I call you that.

*cough cough* fence-turtle *cough cough*

No, not here. Not for Null either.

Most people here I don't fight with, I spar with. I view it as the old Sheep Dog and Coyote cartoons where they goto work together, try to kill one another, then go home as friends.

It's "post turtle", HC

"I view it as the old Sheep Dog and Coyote cartoons where they goto work together, try to kill one another, then go home as friends."

If you're ever in Cali, Kanrei, I'll treat you to some of Cali's finest. And I don't mean wine.

Same for Florida Null =D

"I view it as the old Sheep Dog and Coyote cartoons where they goto work together, try to kill one another, then go home as friends."

So who are the sheep dogs and who are the coyotes???

I already know who the sheep are.

The Drudge Retort by Warner Brothers in 1962:

www.youtube.com

So who are the sheep dogs and who are the coyotes???

We are all Sheep Dogs in our own eyes, protecting the flock from the Coyote.


My number one most used line: you are too stupid to understand, so expect to further responses.

#133 | Posted by kanrei

I thought it was:

"you're too stupid to know how stupid you are"

Don't think I have ever used that one Eddie.

"We are all Sheep Dogs in our own eyes, protecting the flock from the Coyote."

I disagree, there are some here who believe they are sheep dogs but there are also some who know they are really coyotes, and surprisingly many of the sheep follow them as if they don't think Coyotes like mutton.

You are right actually Danni. Most of us trolls are total Coyotes really.

Wasn't speaking of you actually, more like RisR and a few others. I believe he would be flattered.
You know, all that "greed is good" stuff.

I still few them as Sheep Dogs to be honest. RiR and those others, while you may 100% disagree with everything they say, still see themselves as protecting the sheep from coyotes like you (in their eyes). People like myself, Goat, 101, etc are pure Coyote however. We just look for the weak sheep to pick off or on as the case may be.

Reconciliation has never been used to impose the will of a few leftist Marxist idealogs against the will and withough the consent of the governed. There will be hell to pay either way, but every conservative will win on a platform to repeal this insanity.

. People like myself, Goat, 101, etc are pure Coyote however. We just look for the weak sheep to pick off or on as the case may be.

I just wish it wasn't sheep all the time and that there were some true roadrunners here. My toolkit with its standard complement of Acme devices is not challenging when used against sheep. That anvil hanging by a helium balloon gets them every time

Coyote? I'm Hungry like the Wolf.

Coyote? I'm Hungry like the Wolf.

#164 | Posted by wisgod at 2010-03-11 02:18 PM | Reply | Flag: Nick Rhodes fan

The whole Band. I hated them years ago, but Electric Barbarella and bada-bing, bada-boom.


"We are all Sheep Dogs in our own eyes, protecting the flock from the Coyote."

I disagree, there are some here who believe they are sheep dogs but there are also some who know they are really coyotes, and surprisingly many of the sheep follow them as if they don't think Coyotes like mutton.

#158 | Posted by danni

101 is a sheep dog protecting the commoner.

LOL!!!

"#27 | Posted by rcade"

"Obamacare is ridiculously unpopular with the public.
#31 | Posted by JeffJ"

Well, Jeffie, if you're right, and I don't think you are, then the system should take care of your irrational fear. If the bill is ridiculously unpopular with the public and the Dems pass it anyway, especially using a Parlimentary tool that is itself vulnerable to criticism, then the voters will certainly throw those Dems out of office and replace them with Repubs who will of course get rid of the offending legislation.

In other words, if you are right, and I don't think you are, you have at most about 10 months of the Hell of Health Care for Most Americans to suffer through. Now unwad those panties.

Monte,

If you are SO confident then why all of the obvious corruption - Cornhusker kickback, Louisiana Purchase, Florida buy-out and the ridiculous Union-Escalade freebie.

Oh, and where are all of the 'good points that Obama took away from the summit' being actually discussed?

Ask yourself this - with these substantial majorities AND the white house plus a huge edge in advertising dollars AND 38 (and counting) speeches from the bully-pulpit - why does this shit continue to decline in terms of public opinion? Why? You supposedly have not only the smartest person to ever walk the earth but the greatest orator of all time. WHY is public opinion against this collectivist-Utopia so jaded, given your 'obvious' strengths?

-all of the obvious corruption - Cornhusker kickback, Louisiana Purchase, Florida buy-out and the ridiculous Union-Escalade freebie.

Congressional sausage-making virgin.

It's always been done this way, never differently, never, ever.

And yes, Obama left his Magic Wand with PeeWee.

It's always been done this way, never differently, never, ever.

Posted by Corky

What was all that Hope And Change crap about?

There's no magic wand, especially one that works in a different branch of ebil gubmint.

What was all that Hope And Change crap about?

Posted by wisgod at 2010-03-11 03:00 PM |

Much like the pre-war intelligence got one letter wrong, the said "IraQ" when they meant IraN," so too did they get "Hope and Change" wrong. It was supposed to be "Hope FOR Change."

Much like the pre-war intelligence got one letter wrong, the said "IraQ" when they meant IraN," so too did they get "Hope and Change" wrong. It was supposed to be "Hope FOR Change."

#173 | Posted by kanrei

I'm wondering if the Obama/Pelosi/Reid crowd are stupified by the reaction of the American people to their version of Hope and Change?

I was hoping that hoping that the new administartion would stop and reverse the insane spending and war-mongering going on in the Bush administration, but I could be naive.

I also secretly wished that Obama were more Conservative -- he's a great leader! But has the wrong message.

I was hoping that hoping that the new administartion would stop and reverse the insane spending and war-mongering going on in the Bush administration, but I could be naive.

I also secretly wished that Obama were more Conservative -- he's a great leader! But has the wrong message.


We have found common ground Eddie. I think that means the world is about to explode.

We have found common ground Eddie. I think that means the world is about to explode.

#175 | Posted by kanrei

I think it's because I'm more honest lately and stopped posing as an extreme asshole.

-reverse the insane spending

Still hasn't grokked counter-intuitive Keynesian economics 101; spending one's way out of a recession.

Just what Hil or McCain or anyone else electable last time would have also done.

"We just look for the weak sheep to pick off or on as the case may be."

I think you guys have eaten a few sheep dogs by mistake. Or was it, do some of you enjoy dog?

"Just what Hil or McCain or anyone else electable last time would have also done."

You betcha, and if McCain/Palin had won John would have had a horrible time dealing with his Vee Pee.

You betcha, and if McCain/Palin had won John would have had a horrible time dealing with his Vee Pee.

#179 | Posted by danni

You're right. The VPOTUS we have now is safe. Safer when drunk.

34 Repub Senators Have Used Reconciliation
Posted by Doc_Sarvis

So What? They had the support of the American people! This bill does not!!
Doc, do you want this bill to pass? Why?
#96 | Posted by Eddie
___________

"So What? They had the support of the American people!"
Prove it, Eddie.
#100 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis
__________

Prove it, Eddie.
#100 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis


I asked you first. Sorry, but that's the way it works around here.
Prove to me that the people want to spend spend spend or STFU!!!
I asked you a question. Do you support the passage of this bill or are you just a political hack?
#117 | Posted by Eddie
___________

Eddie, what's left of the mess inside your noggin is congealing into a cold, useless lump resembling a melange of cottage cheese and Play Doh.

Whatever you asked, you asked after making your sweeping, unsubstantiated statement that "they had the support of the American people."

I responded to that by asking you to prove it. You won't and you can't.

Face it, Eddie, you've not only slipped past your prime and entered a steep decline but finally veered off into your dotage. I'm sure the grandkids will be pleased to welcome you as a new, if somewhat cranky and erratic, playmate.

When the Bush administration was trying to get its tax cuts passed through reconciliation and the parliamentarian ruled that they did not qualify, Republicans fired the parliamentarian and found a more sympathetic one.

HCR has passed both houses of Congress. Time to get this over via reconciliation.

#181 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

You're thread got shut down, Doc.

You pick a "so what" topic to try and take the attention away from the Obama/Pelosi/Reid team failing miserbly.

What are you defending?

All I asked you was, do you support this bill?

BTW, you look really stupid when I successfully slam you and then you retaliate with insults.

When will you learn?

Wait, I wasn't even successful. I didn't even try. I just called attention to you trying to defend and major American failure and you lash out with hate.

Geez, dude get a life.

BTW, Doc,

Prove to me that forcing fiscal responsibility onto the President is not what the people want.

Think about it.

Mirror, meet the GOP.

They need to take a hard look at what they left as their legacy. It's called 'deficits'.

"What was all that Hope And Change crap about?
#171 | Posted by wisgod"

It was to lure the brain-dead douchebags into the fold. Thank you for your support, douchebag.

(You know, it was just like when W said at debates in 2000 that he opposed nation building. Anyone who believes shit like that oughtta lose their right tio vote.)

So Eddie can't support one of his sweeping, boneheaded contentions?

Now there's a sooprise.

LOL!

Allow me to translate to "Teabaggerese"

Now thiers a sooprise!

Check out these pics of Teabaggers. God help us if they're ever in control of anything!:

www.drudge.com


So Eddie can't support one of his sweeping, boneheaded contentions?

Now there's a sooprise.

LOL!

#188 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

I'm just too lazy to "fight" with you.

It's easier to make a fool of you.

Check out these pics of Teabaggers. God help us if they're ever in control of anything!:

www.drudge.com

#189 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Wow!

I looked at most of the pictures and it looks like you fished through and got a lot of pictures of average-looking people.

I'm curious though. Why are you picking on the American Indian woman?

That's cruel, man.

AU,

You are obsessed!

LOL.

You are too foolish to realize that when you can't argue against them because their right, you pick out 10 out of hundreds of thousands of signs because of misspellings.

So what?

That's 0.001%

AU,

Do you realize you spent a long time looking looking for them or cheated and got a list from someone else and not only did you post it here as if to make a big deal out of it, you spammed it.

Scroll up and see who started talking about "The People don't want this".

I find those 'people' hilarious!

was on a different thread but that subject, thanks to LibSlayer's 'the people don't want it' - replete with misspelled words in his posts claiming the photos I posted were 'Photoshopped'. Funny!

Teabaggers are a riot! Always good for a good belly laugh.

Good rule of thumb: Know how to spell what you're protesting

EDDIE

I don't have a list or any stored photos. I Googled "Teabagger Signs" and got the many, many results I posted, and hundreds of others I didn't.

Sorry.

I presume that it works both ways, right? If a cherry picked picture is supposed to represent an entire group, can I post a pic or two of Obama supporters and imply they represent them all?

Careful how you answer. I've got them in another tab and ready to post the link

Or maybe the picture of the teabag supporters is statistically meaningless because any group has it's share of misfits?

I'm curious though. Why are you picking on the American Indian woman?

Only looked at the signs. No reason to look at the people carrying them. The signs spoke for them.

Anyway, funny shiite!

Teabaggers are a riot! Always good for a good belly laugh.

#195 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I'm afraid you are laughing out of frustration. I'm not buying your bullshit, sorry.

How about you being honest and go to one of the rallies. Just talk to them. I will even encourage you not to say that you are a Pelosi/Obama supporter and just let them talk. Just listen. Then come back and tell me what you think.

My guess is that you are too afraid to go and even observe. You're afraid of being "educated"

Bush did it.

GOAT

Post all the campaign related signs you want to.

I'd think protesters should be able to spell what they're protesting. Common sense.


Anyway, funny shiite!

#200 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Yes, hysterical laughter. The type of laughter that comes from nervous or stressed laughter and turns into that forced frustrated laughter.

I'm afraid you are laughing out of frustration.

God no. They're a friggin' hoot!!

How can anyone not laugh at pictures of people who traveled hundreds, if not thousands of miles to protest, but couldn't even spell what they were protesting correctly. Surely someone in the crowd would be kind enough to point out they were making utter fools of themselves - unless they didn't know the difference either.

Teabaggers are a riot. Are they a threat? Na. Only to Republican moderates.

EDDIE

Teabaggers are good for democracy. Most Americans - right or left - know they're bat shit crazy and wouldn't hand them power.

I say trot 'em out even more front and center. They make a good case for how idiotic and uneducated they are.

The video I posted about the Tea Party and "CZARS" is telling. They don't even know the subject they're carrying signs protesting. When told Reagan appointed the first 'czar' and that George W Bush appointed more Czars than Clinton, Reagan , and Obama combined they said "WHO TOLD YOU THAT?!!" They didn't understand czars have no power. They thought they were Bolsheviks like 1917.

The guy protesting the Kennedys couldn't name a single thing they said: "the Kennedys said, like what?". *blank stare* "well, I heard...".

Funny shiite!!

Teabaggers are a riot. Are they a threat? Na. Only to Republican moderates.

#205 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Wow!

Do you really think that? You are as out of touch as Obama, Pelosi and the rest. You really have a let-them-eat-cake attitude about this don't you?

the peasants are revolting, mel brookes

Best Line:
"Oh, Piss boy!"
"Wee?"

Even funnier was their confusing "Bolsheviks" with "Czars" was my point.

Of course, anyone who knows a teeny bit of history about Czar Nicholas and the Bolsheviks knows the Bolsheviks shot the Romanovs.

Teabaggers are good for democracy. Most Americans - right or left - know they're bat shit crazy and wouldn't hand them power.

#206 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

LOL! But, you voted for Obama. Nice! LOL!!!

Are you you just pretending to be this ignorant?

I say trot 'em out even more front and center. They make a good case for how idiotic and uneducated they are.

#206 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

No, seriously. Research before talking..

Just google "Tea Party on Healthcare" and begin reading.

You will be enlightened and will probably change your thinking.

Right now all you're doing is making a fool out of yourself.

But, you are probably to afraid of the truth, judging by your comments.

EDDIE

Ya, sure I wanted Bush term #3. *sarcasm*

Me and 69,456,897 other people. 365 to 173 EV's.

EDDIE

Seriously, there are some points to be made, but by and large it's inflammatory hyperbole. Not the way to grow it beyond the 'true believers' in the Tea Party movement.

Start a movement to rid our political process of lobbyists, end political divisiveness, and get the political parties working together and you might be on to something. Unfortunately, it's a rag tag band of people who are against too wide a variety of things they don't fully comprehend beyond their anger, and without offering pragmatic solutions or a common sense tone.

That's my take anyway.


Ya, sure I wanted Bush term #3. *sarcasm*

Me and 69,456,897 other people. 365 to 173 EV's.

#211 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

So, did you vote against Bush or for Obama?

Unfortunately, it's a rag tag band of people who are against too wide a variety of things they don't fully comprehend beyond their anger, and without offering pragmatic solutions or a common sense tone.

That's my take anyway.

#212 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

That's you take. RIGHT! you're afraid of what you might find.

What does the Tea Party believe in?

Fiscal Responsibility

Now how does that translate into "who are against too wide a variety of things..."

You're not listening, are you?

It's ok, you'll just be sitting there dumbfounded come November.

I voted for Obama, but certainly would have if I'd been a Republican too - like many of my Republican friends did.

Why America would want the GOP back in power after the wreck they left this country in would be baffling unless there's a massive case of ADD going on in America.

Will the Dems lose seats? Of course. People vent their anger furing hard economic times at the party in power. Will it be a vote by independents for the GOP - who haven't offered a vision of where they'd take the country, but rather relying on castigating the very deficit spending they themselves created? Probably not. That's just the way it works.

furing=during

Anyway, it's a long time 'til November....

AU,

I dare you to watch 5 minutes of this:

www.cbsnews.com

Just 5 minutes and tell me what you think. This is the "Tea Party" that I mingle with.


I voted for Obama, but certainly would have if I'd been a Republican too - like many of my Republican friends did.

#215 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Your friends are not true Conservatives are they?

I voted for Ron Paul.

I'm just too lazy to "fight" with you.
#190 | Posted by Eddie

Don't worry, Eddie, you're safe: I don't "fight" incapacitated people or immature putzes.

I've no idea how lazy you are Eddie, but I'm well aware of your lack of preparedness for meaningful discussion about most of the stuff you bullshit about.

I've seen both of them interviewed extensively on C-SPAN and other outlets.

Are leaders of movements more savvy about the media and less shrill? Usually so. It's the followers who appear out of their minds with some exceptions of course.

Besides, the Tea Party movement has been shown to be right wing in nature. So, they'll only pull from the GOP in any case.

Hey, I'm sure you mean well, but this movement isn't going anywhere beyond the true believers it already has. Even the GOP will turn on them if they continue what they started in NY-23.

No, seriously. Research before talking..
#210 | Posted by Eddie

From Eddie? Jeezus, that is funny.

#219 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

That's right Doc. I enjoy shutting you down. If you want me to "play fair", then perhaps you should think of doing the same.

Truce?

Eddie, I simply asked you to substantiate a sweeping, unsupported (and I suspect unsupportable) claim and you responded by throwing a tantrum.

If you want to talk about matters seriously, that's fine. I'm certainly willing to do that.

Anyway, long day tomorrow so I'm off to the rack.

Take care.

#220 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I agree that there are some radicals, but very small number of arrests. What does that tell you? A protest in Washington of 50,000 (or 1,000,000) depending on who you talk to, and no arrests.

How many protests with that many people do you see happen without arrests? None?

Also, there are many candidates who are running as Republicans who are "Tea Party" candidates. Some are going to win. That's important. Ron Paul, up until now has been the only one. The numbers will grow.

The movement will gain momentum and will pull the Republicans back to being Conservative and get away from the Neocon image.

I don't care. I am indifferent to the Republican Party. I wouldn't care if the Republican Party went away and was replaced with something else.

#223 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Tantrum? I was making fun of you.

anyway, I will stop...

EDDIE

No doubt we're on polar opposite sides of many issues, but I admire anyone who's involved in the political process. Too bad more Americans have lost their faith in our government (which goes back to Vietnam and Watergate).

BTW, I wasn't talking about arrests. I was talking about the shouting down by Tea Partiers at town halls and the shrill tone of the 'movement'. People yelling never get anything of actual value done. Especially when many don't seem to understand in any depth the issues they're protesting.

So,
It is wrong when the Republicans do it, so it is OK for the Democrats to do it because they Republicans did it?

Wrong is wrong, whichever side.

And if they "Slaughter" this bill, I'm pretty sure there will be another kind of "slaughter" forthcoming from the electorate. That is, those who can actually remember it in six months....

The difference is both bills have passed - in the Senate by a 'supermajority'.

What the GOP did in 2001-2007 using reconciliation was nothing of the kind.

My 32 year old has a judgement against him for 30K
No Insurance Thank you St. Luke's Hospital

Yours is another sad tale of a system going more wrong every month.

Tantrum? I was making fun of you.
anyway, I will stop...
#225 | Posted by Eddie

Eddie, it was a tantrum and while you think you were making fun of me you only succeeded in making yourself look foolish.

If you dostop, it may help transform your persona de blog from that of a child into that of an adult.

BTW, I wasn't talking about arrests. I was talking about the shouting down by Tea Partiers at town halls and the shrill tone of the 'movement'. People yelling never get anything of actual value done. Especially when many don't seem to understand in any depth the issues they're protesting.

#226 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Please don't tell me that the whole town hall fiasco was organized. It was "caused" by disinguinuous Democrats who refused to listen to their consituents and like didn't trust the people asking questions and "checked their ID's" only to find that they were legitimate.

It's this out of touch attitude that is going to cause you and the other out of touch Democrats a great deal of surprise this November.

It won't be "a few seats" because the economy's bad and people vote out the party that's in power. This has already happened and Obama was it! You are either naive or just grasping at straws at this point.

If all you see is a small group of bad spellers and yellers, then you are in for a big surprise.


My 32 year old has a judgement against him for 30K
No Insurance Thank you St. Luke's Hospital

#229 | Posted by geehowdyfrommo


Does your 32-year-old have a pre-existing that prevented him from getting insurance? Was he eligible for Medicaid?

Was your 32-year-old a dead beat and not buy insurance?

If this is true, how dare you make me responsible for his behavior?

If he had a preexisting, then I truly have sympathy because there are about 5 million people who fall into that category and it seems to be growing. I would like states begin to take the responsibility back and include them in Medicaid for the short term and develop programs within their states to force their pet insurance companies to participate.

Somehow I doubt he was eligible for Medicaid because the hospital would have helped him with that.


Yours is another sad tale of a system going more wrong every month.

#230 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Right now, it's the insurance companies taking advantage of the lack of leadership in Washington and making short term profits before they are completely thrown under the bus.

Eddie, it was a tantrum
#231 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

All I did was to ask a few questions, Doc. Perhaps you felt like throwing a tantrum yourself?

Anyway, I offered a truce...

All I did was ask you to support what you said, Eddie. If you can manage that in future, I'm sure the truce will hold.

So let's give it a whirl.

ok!

Anyway, I offered a truce...
#235 | Posted by Eddie

I'm sure the truce will hold.
#236 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

So let's give it a whirl.
#237 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

ok!
#238 | Posted by Eddie

Eddie, STFU!
#239 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

:>)

Sorry, Eddie, couldn't resist. But, seriously, I'll try and uphold my part of the bargain. It ought to make for more interesting conversation than we've managed to create in the past and perhaps even some of the sort of dialogue that probably brought each of us here originally.

You know you have a poser when they laugh at their own jokes ...

Cloture is an invention of the Democratic party (W. Wilson) and devised to assist ending a filibuster; thereby allowing the "majority" to have their way against some minority, or another ...

Democrats have *always* tried to force the will of the majority against some minority, and even use the pretense that they are the persecuted "minority", when it is the ISSUE that is being filibustered ... not their "minority" status in congress!!!

The filibuster was DESIGNED to be the ultimate protection of an American minority who would be charged, harmed, or persecuted by majority laws ...

Now, the same fascist party politics is trying to use it to DEFY THE MAJORITY WILL OF THE PEOPLE!

Shame on anyone who still calls themself a "Democrat" because you've layed down with blood sucking flees of politics ... real life vampires ready to suck the lifeblood from Americans through taxes in order to gain votes from illegals and those who are too stupid to wake up and see who the tyrants of American just happen to be: The Democratic Party evolving into a communist tryanny ...

That's what is despicable, Kennedy, you fat-assed idiot ...

Who cares?

Ain't gonna work this time around.

That was then, this is now.

#27 | Posted by rcade

Obamacare is ridiculously unpopular with the public.

That sure is one helluva reason to utilize parlimentary tricks to get this shit passed.

#31 | Posted by JeffJ at 2010-03-11 08:04 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Unpopular? yes, so was every other gov't program that came about in the last century... so was Medicare... look at who loves the shit now... when you have the likes of Glenda Beck, nutless hannity, Rush limpdick and Bill O-lie-ly educating the public on whats good for them , would you expect anything different? The average American has no clue what is even in the damn thing...

The average American has no clue what is even in the damn thing...

Who in Congress actually read the bill?

How many of them didn't read the NIE?

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