We need more engineers and people involved in technological studies, and less people graduating with finance degrees, law degrees, and MBAs which create nothing.

This also shows that you essentially pay for your GPA.

We need more engineers and people involved in technological studies, and less people graduating with finance degrees, law degrees, and MBAs which create nothing.
#1 | Posted by taxman

Not that I disagree. But the fact that you are the one saying it...

Smells of a "I got mine" attitude.

HC, I made a poor choice in college of studying poli sci and minoring in economics - I was practically forced to go to law school if I wanted to make any money. If I had to do it over again, I would have either followed my dad's footsteps and become a programmer or studied physics.

And I have no problems admitting I can't stand a vast majority of the people in my profession.

"Study Finds Grade Inflation at Colleges"

My psychology professor told me he was merciful and that he was going to raise my grade up 1 letter grade from "G"

Grading on a curve does this IMHO. I got a "D" in a class after getting all "C"s on every test. When I asked the teacher why, he said "somebody has to fail." His "bell curve" not only lowered the grades of the bottom half, but it inflated the grades of the top half.

UNC has this bad. When I was there, students in certain fields would knowingly half-ass their work and get pretty offended if they got a C.

My favorite was my physics professor who started the class with "I am retiring after this semester so, as long as your name is on every attendance sheet, you will get at least a C." I had someone sign my name and got a C in physics.

You get what you pay for.

HC, I made a poor choice in college of studying poli sci and minoring in economics - I was practically forced to go to law school if I wanted to make any money. If I had to do it over again, I would have either followed my dad's footsteps and become a programmer or studied physics.
#4 | Posted by taxman

I get you. started as an english major, switched to philosphy/polisci when I really wanted to go physics but didn't have the time/money to retake a years worth of credits. and yeah, I'm studying for the LSAT.

Grading on a curve does this IMHO. I got a "D" in a class after getting all "C"s on every test. When I asked the teacher why, he said "somebody has to fail." His "bell curve" not only lowered the grades of the bottom half, but it inflated the grades of the top half.
#7 | Posted by kanrei

If you weren't such a deadhead.....

Don't get me wrong HC, law school is great, but don't hang your hat on practicing law. I have many friends who graduated from law and no longer in the practice. I myself spent years at a Big 4 accounting firm before getting back into law.

My sister in law could only find work as a lawyer working for the insurance companies. She tried it for two years, couldn't stand herself, and is now a stay-at-home mom. Same happened to my ultra-liberal college room mate. 191 Dead shows and now he screws people out of their insurance.

"but don't hang your hat on practicing law."

I'm definitely not looking to get rich on it. and luckily I don't have to. I wonder sometimes if I like the idea of law school more than actually practicing.

191 Dead shows and now he screws people out of their insurance.
#14 | Posted by kanrei

You should well know that not all Deadheads are liberals. Remember The Family?

Nanc is living proof.

I wonder sometimes if I like the idea of law school more than actually practicing

Knowing the theoretical and practical side of the law is certainly valuable no matter what you end up doing.

I know many people who went to law school because they felt there was no other path available. They were not particularly interested in the law, and had no idea of what they actually wanted to do in society once they got a law degree. Most of these people either abandoned the practice of law, or became shitty lawyers.
I strongly recommend to anyone considering law school to think out in advance what precisely it is you hope to do once you get a law degree. Be it make money, serve society, go into politics, hang a shingle, or whatever. But know why you are doing it before you do it.

Grade inflation is known as Affirmative Action.

Depends on how much debt I'm in when I get out. I'd love to do public interest work for relatively low pay. Actually, if I can't get out with little to no debt, I probably won't go.

Once in a while, along comes a post you just KNOW is going to totally derail the thread into strange and scary places. #19 is an example of just such a post. This should be good. Strap yourself in and enjoy the ride.

"This should be good. Strap yourself in and enjoy the ride."

Case in point. A black woman I know is getting into every law school she applied to with a 150 LSAT score, B grades in undergrad (good school) and a personal statement that I basically had to rewrite for her. Plus half the schools are offering partial to more than half scholarships. This is the second time I've experienced this.

A black woman I know is getting into every law school she applied to with a 150 LSAT score, B grades in undergrad (good school) and a personal statement that I basically had to rewrite for her.

Not really apples to apples unless she was given either the 150 LSAT score or earned D's and was given B's.

I went to an expensive private school with a very good reputation and it didn't take long for me to realize that grades were purely subjective. There was a whole population of kids in my school who didn't catch on to things quickly, performed mediocre on tests but who went to office hours alot to show they were into the class and they would get better grades than they deserved as a result. One prof I had admitted my grade was lowered for never visiting him during office hours.

My senior year, I missed a final due to a stupid mistake I made when I was looking at the schedule (which was hard to read). The Prof said she would let me take it if the Dean said it was OK. The Dean started to give me a hard time, going into a speech about responsibility. I cut her off: "I've been here for four years. This is the first and only time I've ever asked for any kind of exception and this was an honest mistake. I know that there are students who get to take finals late literally every semester they've been here. If you deny me on this because you think I will take this quietly, you are mistaken. I will take this further and I promise you my request will be compared to dozens of other more egregious examples of rules being broken on behalf of students." Her answer: "Fine." And stupid me back then still felt a little guilty about the whole thing. Everyone else is basically cheating like crazy with the school's help and I feel bad about the one time I strongarmed them. LOL.

Affirmative action is grade inflation is every beneficery of such reaching several levels beyond their level of competence is what happened to Barack Obama.

#25 | Posted by fwthom at 2010-03-08 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag: Take a deep breath, decide what it is you want to say, and try again

K, I don't get into those schools with those numbers. I'm really happy for her. Just saying though.

Hag,

Yeah, that is "affirmative action" in the admissions office and is wrong, but grade inflation is pretty color blind I have found.

#28 Continued....

At least from my experience. I have benefited from it and been screwed by it in my schooling. I don't think I "benefited" in the long run as I got a C in physics and a B in Spanish and know neither while I got a "D" in Psych and knew it fairly well, but I would not say any of it was due to my race per say.

K,
Here's the thing, I'm supportive of affirmative action generally speaking. Though sometimes I want to kick myself for writing those statements for them. One was that bad, but she dropped out because she couldn't hack it on her own, so...

I'm supportive of affirmative action generally speaking.

I support the theory, but, much like Communism, I can't see any way for it to be made reality in view of human nature; especially with government running it.

affirmative action for the wealthy is well in place.

try getting people to advance it for the poor, as opposed to one small group or another.

Shawn that turns the whole point of affirmative action on its head.

Hell,
The university I work at is all talk about "holding the academic line" but if you start holding that line, you get grief from that same administration.

Set standards and expectations? Sure. Hold to those standards and expectations? Better not!

And they don't get the disconnect. They want to blame the instructor instead of the student. Especially those students who don't want to study, do work in class and homework. Complete projects.

They expect a lot more than they deserve. Thank you liberal educators who worried more about their self-image than their knowledge base. Not to mention the multitaskers sending text messages instead of writing down notes.

I have had an "Excellent" rating for the past several years because I know the game and how to play it. Just be sure to say those things that go into the student evaluation like "As clearly stated on the syllabus" or "Remember, my office is open to you at xPM or just send an email."

And yeah, my grades are somewhat inflated now from what they would have been 15 years ago. Good thing I can be entertaining as well in the classroom. I still flunk students and my average score is a B instead of a C for my freshmen classes, but that's what today is in academe. We also changed the course objectives such that it is easy to "succeed" in those lower level courses. Sort of a fake-out for grade inflation...set the standards low enough and people can pass.

However, get into my senior/junior level courses and there isn't any grade inflation anymore! All mastery based objectives that make it fairly straightforward for grading..and a lot more challenging to make above that C.

When you help your kids fill out their college admissions forms circle "black." If they ask for details put, "Light skimmed colored who speaks with negro accent only when he wants to." I learned that trick from Dingy Harry Reid.

Don't ever circle "Asian" no matter what. Asians are subject to reverse institutional discrimination to a severe degree because they are over represented throughout academia and basically have higher IQ's than other racial groups (Bell Curve, Chapter 13).

"It's a business decision." Gotta have tuition-paying students, no matter what their qualifications aren't.

We need more engineers and people involved in technological studies, and less people graduating with finance degrees, law degrees, and MBAs which create nothing.

#1 | Posted by taxman

I hear the field is wide open for climate scientists.

Bent Oar is living proof that anyone can make a living being a paid blog whore for the oil and insurance industries.

Spelling ability and cognitive thought processes are not needed. Only the ability to parrot mindlessly whatever lies you are fed by your corporate masters.

This is what you get when:

Even the very dumbest of individuals qualifies for government loans with few stipulations.

An instructor's performance is graded by their students.

Uneducated high school graduates + lots of free government grant money = no incentive to fail college students and stop the flow of money....

Bent Oar is living proof that anyone can make a living being a paid blog whore for the oil and insurance industries.

Spelling ability and cognitive thought processes are not needed. Only the ability to parrot mindlessly whatever lies you are fed by your corporate masters.

#38 | Posted by axe

Poppycock!

You can only wish you had my wit and charm!

Bent Oar is living proof that anyone can make a living being a paid blog whore for the oil and insurance industries.

Spelling ability and cognitive thought processes are not needed. Only the ability to parrot mindlessly whatever lies you are fed by your corporate masters.

#38 | Posted by axe

Now if RCADE wanted to pay me, we might be able to talk about it.

Come on now. Admit it axe. You kind of like me a little bit don't you?

Who else here provokes you in so many creative ways!? I'm one of the ones that keeps you all coming back for more!

But know why you are doing it before you do it.

#18 | Posted by moder8

That would or should apply to anything with college.

I thought fer sure that 'grade inflation' was somehow related to 'inflating the Prof'...

Uneducated high school graduates + lots of free government grant money = no incentive to fail college students and stop the flow of money....

It's funny how the right thinks good grades are now a result of spending too much money and the left thinks poor grades are from not spending enough.

Once again I have to side with the left, not because I agree with them that we need to spend more (which we do), but because I see the difference between the conservative students and the liberal ones and what they really learned in the end. Of course the students from the wealthier neighborhoods and in private schools tend to do better without government grants and scholarships. It's in the schools best interest to graduate the "cream of the crop". The students are also not as hungry and don't generally have to support themselves with few exceptions.

I put my self through college, with no scholarships or grants and not a dime from my family. I earned a 3.94 GPA because I figured if I was going to pay for it, I was going to get my money's worth. I found the teachers were for the most fair and objective. It's the students who either took advantage of their lessons or resorted to cheating when ever possible.

I think more money for the schools would only help as tuition is too high already. People who are too greedy and self centered to help the youth (especially the poor of this world) get a good education are the worst kind of hypocrites and they all tend to be republicans. Why is that?

It's not just the free government grants and loans that incentivise the colleges to pass these young knuckleheads along. It is also the willingness of parents and grandparents to fund this stupid bullshit. "My son is away at college studying evolutionary psychology, black history and climate science. We are so proud of him!"

HaHaHaHaHaHa

I think the grade inflation issue is overblown.

It's worth noting that most of the students at those selective private schools came from the top of their classes academically to begin with. Perhaps the middle of the grading curve taken from a class of the best students in the country SHOULD be higher than the middle of the curve for a less-selective student body.

I took courses at both a midrange state school and an ivy-league private school, and found the state-school classes MUCH easier. The state-school courses I took covered less material, and featured much simpler homework/test problems than the similar courses I took at the Ivy. Where I could easily get straight A's at the state school, I was working my tail off to get B's and C's at the Ivy.

I know there are excellent students who go to state schools because they won't/can't afford private schools, and there are certainly mediocre students who get into private schools on their daddy's donations, but neither represents the average student attending either institution.

"not because I agree with them that we need to spend more (which we do),"

Really you think so, so spending more than any other OECD country isn't enough, we have to spend more?

You mistake spending for achievement, quality, equality, and success.

"I think more money for the schools would only help as tuition is too high already."

Tuition is high for the simple reason it is government funded via loans. There is a good lesson here for Healthcare. The tuitions were low when the government loan rate was low. But once EVERYONE needed a college education, and loans are freely available. MORE MONEY to the same number of institution, do the math. The exact same thing happened when Medicare came along, and it will happen when 30million get added to the healthcare insurance.

More money, same places to spend it, mean it will cost more, because they can get more. Feed the beast...

You mistake spending for achievement, quality, equality, and success.

You mistake America for being just another OECD country. We are not. Our standard of living and income level is way beyond third world countries that exceed America's educational level. We should be spending proportionally more. In Thailand, for example, there is a much higher percentage of graduating college students because they spend a lot more of the family income on education then the rich Americans are willing to spend. It's not a matter of whether or not we can afford it, it's a matter of attitude. Americans just don't have the family values to raise a better class of children anymore. We are raising a culture of tightwads.