Perhaps we'll set our sights on Saturn's moon?:

AHA! Proof positive global warming is a myth!!

On the contrary. This PROVES lunar cooling is a problem, likely caused by American humans. We need new taxes and a suspension of property rights to deal with the crisis!

#3 | Posted by Diablo at 2010-03-02 10:48 AM | Reply | Flag *********Dual Alert!
Knee Jerk jerk.
One trick Pony

YEP Moose and Cow Farts along with SUV's and republicans...

In February, President Barack Obama cancelled the programme designed to return Americans to the Moon by 2020.

Who needs a space program anyway when Obama/God say's we can trust the Russians to get the U.S into orbit from now on...

Here's a link for more information on the 'ice craters':

This is the way to go.

Here's a link for more information on the 'ice craters':
lpod.wikispaces.com
In a related matter: I'd be curious to hear about the +/-'s associated with returning to the Moon (and SPECIFICALLY returning to the Moon, since the technological impetus could also be provided by alternative space exploration goals).
#7 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2010-03-02 03:38 PM

There is every reason to believe it's a plus. I have no idea other than alien/UFO theories regarding why not.

Allegedly it's already been inhabited, but what this means for mankind is probably more black operations and even less "reality".

NASA was last suggesting that the next best opportunity for study are asteroids - wrap your mind around that!

"This is the way to go."

Dig it.

I presented the question since it's not an obvious plus. For example, to use the Moon as a base there are numerous problems associated with the static and abrasive characteristics of the lunar 'soil'. Those difficulties are compounded when designing a base for human occupation.

In some respects, it's preferable to be 'near' but not 'on' the Moon. It's possible that whatever resources (time, talent, $$) that could be brought to bear, would be better utilized on other space exploration goals than a return to the Moon.

Personally, I'd eagerly jump at a chance to go to the Moon. However, I'm also pragmatic enough to realize that might be a squanderous application of resources which could be better applied to other space exploration efforts.

there wasn't ice before. then we sent up the fucking lunar lander that polluted things up there, and caused climatic change on the moon. we fucked up the moon, too.

Al Gore

Obama's problem is a result of poor leadership for the past decade, resulting in a huge deficit, but you know-it-all pubbies keep shooting your trap off. Then you can keep wondering why nobody listens to you lug heads anymore.

Ringmaster take a hit of that fine big island green and STFU. Obam$a cut the program! Get your arms around it.

NASA has historically been a huge employer. Bush said let's go back to the moon and O nixed it in this time.

Shit with the amount of cash this government is printing/hemorraging what's a little trip to the moom?

How is it possible to blame Bush's deficit for Obama's NASA cuts when Obama still finds a way to spend more money than Bush ever did? Only cinnamon ringmaster would be stupid enough to think Obama has been forced into some dungeon of fiscal conservatism. Get a fucking clue.

Something extremely valuable is on the moon.

And India knows it.

"Bush said let's go back to the moon and O nixed it in this time.
#14 | Posted by boojiboy at 2010-03-02 09:56 PM"

President Bush proposed returning to the Moon in January 2004. He also did not fund his proposal.

You remember 2004? It was an election year. It was also three years before the Democrats took control of the House from the Republicans. Remember the House? That body of representatives that creates the budget?

Some were actually duped into believing that President Bush actually wanted the US to return to the Moon rather than score political points.

Meanwhile, this thread has devolved into a Blame Obama session while the essential question remains unanswered:

"What is the purpose for returning to the Moon?"

or, more specifically:

"Is a return to the Moon a better application of resources than other space exploration projects?"

India has quietly become a major player in the fields of science and technology. Interesting. Especially considering the tumultuous neighborhood, - surrounded by savages in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. How is it that they have developed a culture so clearly superior to their neighbors?

In February, President Barack Obama cancelled the programme designed to return Americans to the Moon by 2020.

Ata apparently either believes, like the Dickster, that deficts don't matter or that space-flight is free.

Can we expect his fellow conservatives to chastise him for supporting big government deficit spending?

If so, maybe we can ride pigs into orbit....

Obama won.t allow us to explore outer space until all ghetto dweller's problems are solved by government programs.

Have robotic avatars do preliminary exploration and construction of bases, while scientists work on problems of bringing the cost of transportation and life support for human beings down.

#8 | Posted by Grendel at 2010-03-02 03:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

There's the whole story.

There is absolutely no reason to send humans into space exploration. We can build superb robots that don't need life support, potable water or piss breaks. They don't get tired or lonely.

If you want an expensive TV stunt, do Apollo again. If the goal is knowledge, then robots can do a better job for the next 100 years or so.

"We can build superb robots that don't need life support, potable water or piss breaks. They don't get tired or lonely. Hell, stick tits and a weiner on 'em and I'll marry one"

#23 | Posted by vernon

Good point vern. I never would have guessed you had it in you.

Oh, he's had it in him plenty.

Oh, he's had it in him plenty.

#27 | Posted by LetUsPrey at 2010-03-02 11:48 PM | Reply | Flag: Can say so with personal knowledge

surrounded by savages in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. How is it that they have developed a culture so clearly superior to their neighbors?

By not letting their people take a dump in a proper toilet.

Oh, he's had it in him plenty.

#27 | Posted by LetUsPrey at 2010-03-02 11:48 PM | Reply | Flag: Can say so with personal knowledge

#28 | Posted by JOE at 2010-03-03 12:18 AM | Reply | Flag: JEALOUS, AND UNEMPLOYED

A radar experiment aboard India's Chandrayaan-1 lunar spacecraft

American made radar, in an American made spacecraft launched from a Russian rocket engine, carrying European telemetry.

The space-craft over-heated and failed midway in the mission.

To save face, data already collected by NASA is being presented as a "new find".

Jeez, Tossy, you don't squawk about your Chinese-made, well, everything.

Oh and yes, of course, India paid for it all.

This is a new direction for American space industry... and I think a rather smart one.

Instead of letting NASA do everything, Americans are now subcontracting space-tech to the world.

America will make your satellites and stuff for your "missions" for heavy profits.

Smart. Very smart.

If this is the direction Obama is taking NASA in, then someone has advised him correctly.

Jeez, Tossy, you don't squawk about your Chinese-made, well, everything.

Pakistan has acquired/copied and mixed technology from all over (specially French), not just China.

And yet....

And yet....

Yes? And yet?

Tosser, if you're waiting for a nugget of enlightenment from Lettuce, you may want to go get your flashlight to help assist him.

you may want to go get your flashlight to help assist him.

I got my flashlight and assisted him in post-37.

The whole point is... which seems to have escaped many people... is that thanks to the USA, civilian space technology is now available on the open market for anyone who wants it.

Simple.

BTW, Tosser, your adopting Goatman's schtick with the "Letusbray" meme isn't all that advanced, either...

Howsomever, I liked the car show thread. How about finding us here in the US some old PAki, Russian or whatever trucks you can? I like the way I've seen some of the big trucks decorated on that side of the world.

thanks to the USA, civilian space technology is now available on the open market for anyone who wants it.

Simple.

Yep. That's a given.

BTW, Tosser, your adopting Goatman's schtick with the "Letusbray" meme isn't all that advanced, either...

Why re-invent the wheel when all I have to do is copy?

I do copy from the best, however.

Well. You've got a point.

{:^)

I like the way I've seen some of the big trucks decorated on that side of the world.

You like THAT?

When, Troller? You got the sand for space travel? Until you can build, launch and safely recover a manned orbital vehicle bearing a Pakistani flag, you can line up like everybody else to buy time at orbital facilities built by nations that once only thought of the technology as a weapon delivery system. It's about human beings having the will as one bickering, murderous species to reach to the stars. If I were a space-faring race, I'd take steps to ensure those feral bipeds on the third planet don't get any farther out than their own nine scrawny planets. They might make good pets, though.

It will be our karma to never leave this planet as a species. The dying sun will expand, completely consuming the first 5 planets (we're #3 for those playing at home) and the only trace of our cosmically brief existence will be the engraved Rube Goldberg hardware we threw out into the cold.

Until you can build, launch and safely recover a manned orbital vehicle bearing a Pakistani flag

Pakistan has no plans for a manned space program.

When we will need to send someone, we have an open invitation from the Chinese manned space program.

Pakistan is.. along with China... a founding member of the Asian space tech sharing forum.

It's about human beings having the will as one bickering, murderous species to reach to the stars. If I were a space-faring race, I'd take steps to ensure those feral bipeds on the third planet don't get any farther out than their own nine scrawny planets. They might make good pets, though.

Are you suffering from depression???

President Bush proposed returning to the Moon in January 2004. He also did not fund his proposal.
#18 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2010-03-02 10:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

What are you talking about? Of course Bush funded the Constellation Program - how else would the program have spent billions and billions of dollars between 2004 and 2010? Since 2004 there has been a Constellation Program appropriation passed in Congress with real dollars attached to it. One way the future of the program was to be funded (in 2011 and out) was to use the Space Shuttle funding that would become available as the Shuttle retired. Now NASA and the US has no Space Shuttle and no follow-on program. Looks like we'll be bumming rides from the Russians through at least 2025 (and did you hear how the Russians have recently increased prices on all flights after 2012? Capitalism has finally found its way in Mother Russia...)

To answer your earlier question, the moon visits would have been important to test any capabilities we develop for eventual travel to Mars. Basically we'd use the moon as a lab to work out any problems with systems that could eventually take us to the 4th planet (it's a lot easier to mount a rescue from earth to the moon in a couple of days rather than the 6 months it takes to get to Mars). It would also have allowed us to create the capability to keep man in space (not lower-earth orbit, but SPACE) for long periods of time, as well as test and refine those systems in real world (real space?) situations.

Pakistan is.. along with China... a founding member of the Asian space tech sharing forum.

Pakistan, China and seven other countries signed a treaty for the establishment of the Asia-Pacific Space Cooperation Organization (APSCO) in 2005. China's legislature ratified the treaty last June. The APSCO will be formally established after China receives approvals from at least five participating countries' parliaments. China is actively engaged in the setting up of APSCO, which will be based in Beijing. The formation of APSCO is expected to facilitate further exchanges and cooperation in space technology in the region.

Objectives of APSCO:

1. To promote and strengthen the development of collaborative space programs among its Member States by establishing the basis for cooperation in peaceful applications of space science and technology;

2. To take effective actions to assist the Member States in such areas as space technological research and development, applications and training by elaborating and implementing space development policies;

3. To promote cooperation, joint development, and to share achievements among the Member States in space technology and its applications as well as in space science research by tapping the cooperative potential of the region.

4. To enhance cooperation among relevant enterprises and institutions of the Member States and to promote the industrialization of space technology and its applications.

5. To contribute to the peaceful uses of outer space in the international cooperative activities in space technology and its applications.

So from what I can see, there are now three "space clubs" in the world....

1. American and those who use/share American space-tech.

2. European.

3. Russian/Chinese/rest of Asia Space-Club.

There is plenty of cooperation between no.1 and no.3 as you can obviously see.

old PAki, Russian or whatever trucks you can

Those are Bedford Trucks, a company that went out of business in the...late sixties....And our mechanics and truckers keep these machines going in 2010. Not a feat of technical prowess as much as sheer passion for a vehicle.

And that's why they totally bedeck the trucks and buses with all that...stuff. It's like a psychedelic eye-splosion of bright plastic colours.

And our mechanics and truckers keep these machines going in 2010.

I think they are still made here...

India found ice on the moon?

Isn't that the main ingredient of a Slurpee?

Spud smells 7-11 franchise!

/Yes, stole that joke from Joe Biden.

^_^

Be Well.

/Still wearing his Olympic toque, the Tater o' Doom is enter the Demented Region also known as the Drudge Retort
stage left.

To answer your earlier question, the moon visits would have been important to test any capabilities we develop for eventual travel to Mars.

Moon exploration is a distraction to exploring mars. The space station is much more suited to that endeavor. Any trip to mars will take place in a zero gravity environment and won't likely ever be accomplished in our lifetimes if we waste another 60 years tinkering with a lunar base.

If the moon is ever revisited it would only make sense as a profitable venture like space tourism or perhaps nuclear power plants that would be much safer in an environment that is dead already. Nuclear waste could be much more easily launched to the sun for disposal then from the earth and an accident wouldn't destroy entire regions or even worse whole continents.

If water and nuclear power was available on the moon it might make a decent refueling station, but I doubt that it would ever be more profitable than Earth resources and unless Mars had mega tons of easy to find rare metals why bother to ever try and make a Martian trip profitable either?

Some of you folks are all reading too much science fiction and not enough science facts.

BTW...We are working on a heavy lift system to replace the Shuttle and it threatens to be just as much a millstone on our countries budget already. It's not like the current administration is calling it quits, but putting the brakes on the budget is what Obama has to do, and we all know that. What's a greater priority, keeping the people fed, housed and healthy or making matters worse by directing our precious resources to companies that are already rich from the pork barrel military and space industry?

How is it that they have developed a culture so clearly superior to their neighbors?

#56...reminds me of East LA or Harlem.

Good point vern. I never would have guessed you had it in you.

#26 | Posted by RingMaster at 2010-03-02 11:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

One of my clients is working on the Artificial Intelligence technology that will make those robots effective; specifically, small flying robots that will gather information over a wide area and report back to the mother robot.

"President Bush proposed returning to the Moon in January 2004. He also did not fund his proposal.
#18 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2010-03-02 10:21 PM

What are you talking about? Of course Bush funded the Constellation Program - how else would the program have spent billions and billions of dollars between 2004 and 2010?
#47 | Posted by bartimus at 2010-03-03 02:13 AM"

Perhaps I should have more explicitly stated my point: President Bush did not PROPERLY fund the Constellation program. As such it was doomed to failure and was more valuable for him politically than as an actual NASA benefit.

"To answer your earlier question, the moon visits would have been important to test any capabilities we develop for eventual travel to Mars.
#47 | Posted by bartimus at 2010-03-03 02:13 AM"

Actually, no and for (at least) the reasons I mentioned in my earlier post. The Moon is a rather poor place to test out problems for a potential Mars base. Generally, the space station (and even Earth-based) tests will yield quicker/easier (and safer) results.

The following link sums up the situation rather succinctly:

Water on the moon means life can be sustained there?

LOL...LOL...LOL...

Uhhhhh, don't know about you, but I can go a few days without water, but only a few minutes without oxygen!

Just a heads up!

"What is the purpose for returning to the Moon?"

or, more specifically:

"Is a return to the Moon a better application of resources than other space exploration projects?"

#19 | Posted by TrueBlue

Yes. There's an energy source on the moon that could easily power the entire energy needs for the Earth for the next 1,000 years.

I can go a few days without water, but only a few minutes without oxygen!

Water is H2O.

Using electrolysis one can turn melted ice (ie. water) into hydrogen and oxygen.

Be Well.

Yes. There's an energy source on the moon that could easily power the entire energy needs for the Earth for the next 1,000 years.

#60 | Posted by BENDOR

Someone once said that to launch a man into space costs about as much as the man's weight, IN GOLD!!

If they found oil on the moon, and shuttled it back on the space shuttle, what do you think the price of a gallon of moon gasoline would be? How about H3?

I understand Buffaloed_Boob and Zatoitchy commute to the moon often. Boob has a factory up there and Zat is looking for a place to settle when global warming destroys Earth.

Someone once said that to launch a man into space costs about as much as the man's weight, IN GOLD!!

If they found oil on the moon, and shuttled it back on the space shuttle, what do you think the price of a gallon of moon gasoline would be? How about H3?

#62 | Posted by Sabbatai

H3 provides fuel for earthbound nuclear reactors without the radioactive side affects.

Think uranium without the BOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!

Let the smokestacking begin!

Mom, its sunny outside, can I go out and play? No, son you will f'n die. There is no atmosphere. Mom why did we come here again?

Do you think they'll ever put a man on Uranus?

Ban Hydrogen Dioxide!

Or Di-Hydrogen Oxide! That's even worse!!

Some were actually duped into believing that President Bush actually wanted the US to return to the Moon rather than score political points.

They thought it would be easier to see Saddam's WMD from up there, and keep an eye on Russia, though SARAH!! pointed out she had that part covered from her kitchen window. If Bush had promised to cure cancer, balance the budget and give everyone flying cars if re-elected, the righties here would have believed him. Then, when he didn't, they'd blame the liberals. Of course,now, you can't find any rightie here who admitted to voting for Dubya.

"How is it possible to blame Bush's deficit for Obama's NASA cuts when Obama still finds a way to spend more money than Bush ever did?"

Members of a political party hold the other party hyper-responsible for everything they do for decades after the fact and their own party is not accountable for anything. How do they reconcile such a blatant double standard?

Magic.

How is it that they have developed a culture so clearly superior to their neighbors?

So there's a chance of getting a cold drink in Mumbai?

"So there's a chance of getting a cold drink in Mumbai?"

In places where ice is generally too expensive to put in drinks, they claim that putting ice in your drinks makes you sick. I work with some Indian guys and when they came to the US they would be shocked every day that I drink so much ice water. When I was in Peru someone mentioned ice in drinks being bad for you too.

Then again, to any Westerner, putting ice in your drinks would be very risky in India. We can't handle their water.

"When I was in Peru someone mentioned ice in drinks being bad for you too."

Considering that outside the major cities in Peru the tap water is undrinkable and everyone, even the poorest people, have to buy their drinking and cooking water, an ice cube is an extravagant luxury.

" 'What is the purpose for returning to the Moon?"

or, more specifically:

"Is a return to the Moon a better application of resources than other space exploration projects?"
#19 | Posted by TrueBlue'

Yes. There's an energy source on the moon that could easily power the entire energy needs for the Earth for the next 1,000 years.

www.eastfieldnews.com
#60 | Posted by BENDOR at 2010-03-03 09:47 AM"

That's an interesting link BENDOR. I am ill-equipped to discuss the specific value of H3 as a energy/$$$ source.

However, and this is the crux of my original question, that same "mining" of H3 can also be done (and probably more easily) from NEO (near Earth orbit). Your link's discussion of H3 mining on the Moon is primarily intended for presenting H3 as an energy source for use ON THE MOON. As such, this is not a good argument for GOING to the Moon, but might be a good argument for what to do if one is planning to be ON the Moon.

"Considering that outside the major cities in Peru the tap water is undrinkable and everyone, even the poorest people, have to buy their drinking and cooking water, an ice cube is an extravagant luxury."

I was in Lima staying with my brother who was in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the city. Even there had to brush out teeth with bottled water. So I understand why they really don't put ice in drinks. I just found it a little funny that instead of saying it is too expensive, they claim it is bad for you.

Do you think they'll ever put a man on Uranus?

#67 | Posted by TylerDurden at 2010-03-03 11:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

yes, and let-u-spray only charges $10

Meanwhile here's what a cool $100 Million will buy:

Well Well.... India found ice on the moon... Maybe we could get them to look for bin laden..... OW! 3-:

Have they verified the Alien Space Ship On The Moon?

No? Somebody ask them to have a fly over to 1712'36.45"S, 11737'56.61"E and let us all know... I've seen some of the wingnut stuff posted here.

Ban Di-hydrogen monoxide!

In Karachi, the largest city in Pakistan, around 60% of a total population of 12 million live in Katchi Abadis', housing for the poor or slum ......

#72 | Posted by bigjohn_1972 at 2010-03-03 01:17 PM | Reply | Flag

Sounds like a paradise, even without 72 virgins, with stinking armpits and unwashed crotches

stinking armpits and unwashed crotches
#84 | Posted by vernon | Flag: Aficianado Of Stinking Armpits & Unwashed Crotches

#85 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2010-03-04 08:44 AM | Reply | Flag: AFICIANADO OF ANY FEMALE HE CAN PICK UP AT THE BUS STOP

B-b-b-ut, Vermin, I thought you neither read nor responded to my posts?!? LOL!

Sounds like a paradise, even without 72 virgins, with stinking armpits and unwashed crotches
#84 | Posted by vernon

Sure do smell like it, honey.
#86 | Posted by Missus Vermin

#83 - Only in the US and other prude countries. In France it is right up there with mother's milk..

Of course, that could explain a lot about the French....

#57...One of my clients is working on the Artificial Intelligence technology that will make those robots effective; specifically, small flying robots that will gather information over a wide area and report back to the mother robot.

You sure have some loony clients. Don't buy any stock in that company. There is no air on the moon and Mars doesn't have enough to make flying practical either.

"B-b-b-ut, Vermin, I thought you neither read nor responded to my posts?!? LOL!
#87 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis"

D'oh!

Vernon