Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Thursday, February 25, 2010

President Obama and leading Democrats and Republicans spent seven 1/2 hours Thursday on an unprecedented live health care summit -- a condensed version of the past year of debate over the nation's health care crisis and a crash course in the partisan divide, in which Democrats seek the kind of broad remake that has eluded leaders for half a century and Republicans favor much more modest changes.

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"Republicans will focus on six areas: funding high-risk insurance pools for people denied coverage because of medical problems; expanding health savings accounts; allowing consumers to shop out of state for lower-cost plans; capping malpractice judgments to reduce the practice of defensive medicine; helping small businesses afford coverage; and supporting state innovation in trying to control costs."

"allowing consumers to shop out of state for lower-cost plans"

"and supporting state innovation in trying to control costs."

Completely contradictory goals. They want to take away state's rights to regulate insurance and at the same time encourage states to control costs.

"When Harry Met Mitchy"

or

"The Obaminator, Part Deux"

Let's see, 10am huh, who the hell will be watching except the unemployeed masses and the retired.

"I think it's nearly impossible to imagine a scenario under which we could reach an agreement," said Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky. "Because we don't think we ought to pass a 2,700-page bill that seeks to restructure one-sixth of our economy."

Open minds?

Not so much.

Empty ones?

Laws yes.

Be Well.

"trying to solve the problems" - Obama

"Huh?"- Repubes

I doubt anything constructive will come of this, but I'm glad it's happening. This should have been done a year ago.

"allowing consumers to shop out of state for lower-cost plans"

It worked so well with Credit Cards.

"We can't make law for the whole nation, it's too complicated." - Tennessee Tuxedo.

Only 25% of Americans want these bills to pass:

Twenty-five percent of people questioned in the poll say Congress should pass legislation similar to the bills passed by both chambers,

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com

Fifty-two percent of Independents want Congress to start work on a new bill, with 27 percent saying lawmakers should stop all work, and 18 percent saying that the current legislation should be passed into law.

So don't give us this BS that a majority of the public wants these bills. The only closed minds here spud are the political ones standing to the left. Closed to the will of the people who elected them. Not you of course - you can't vote.

Well-- the table is set up right.

The 25 percenters are busy on the board this morning.

There are closed minds on both sides of the aisle, but the Dems have certainly displayed a complete disregard for their constituency...

Let's see, 10am huh, who the hell will be watching except the unemployeed masses and the retired.

#3 | Posted by em385guy at 2010-02-25 10:14 AM


Should be a very big audience then.

where nancy is it that healthcare is a right?

oh boy, harry is bringing out the tear jerker story

There are closed minds on both sides of the aisle, but the Dems have certainly displayed a complete disregard for their constituency...

A strong majority of Democrats support health care reform.

I'm thnking that Obama wants to do something 'incrementally' versus the 4500 page monstrosity.

It will be the only way to pass a bill.

That would mean pushing Pelosi and Reid aside--the bills anyway.

If he doesn't--then they fail--Obama fails.

If they decide to ram this through--the Dems are toast and forget about Obama in 2012.

Considering that nearly 60 percent of the public STILL want a public option, even after all the propaganda that is is "Socialist", all this whining about how the public isn't interested in progressive health care reform is laughable.

own set of facts harry, seriously? his kaiser reference is a lie

No they don't want the public option--they want something done with HC insurance.

60% do not want a public option, not even 60% want this shit

no one has talked about reconcilliation, really?

Reid needs to quit his whining.

you cried about the nuc option 4 years ago, invoking the framers, etc blasting its use.

nothing is going to get down here but unveil this admin as a joke....

No one has suggested the nuclear option except for idiot Republicans that don't remember what the "nuclear option" even means.


There are closed minds on both sides of the aisle, but the Dems have certainly displayed a complete disregard for their constituency...

A strong majority of Democrats support health care reform.

#16 | Posted by rcade

Let me know something. Did you mean to confuse or are you confused yourself.

The truth is that a majority of Americans support health care reform.

You really need to qualify your statement by saying something like "a majority of Democrats support Obamacare" (whatever that is)

That's the truth.

understand?

Your original statement is true but it infers that a strong majority of Republicans do not support "health care reform", which is a lie.

A strong majority of Democrats support health care reform as passed by the Senate and House.

The old adage "as long as you have your health", is true. Since when as Americans has this now become a right or an entitlement? If this is true then our government should pass laws to protect our rights. Right?

Hey Dorky, Obama started off by saying he read Boehner's health care plan. You keep saying that there is no republican plan, either you or Obama is lying, who is it?

#16....noone is arguing against any healthcare reform, just not the kind they are trying to jam down throats... the disregard is not listening to people, but going ahead with their power plays rather than a substantive approach to the real issues....

keep talking, harry, nancy, dodd, o'barry, etc. just rehash last year's shit and hope america thinks it smells better.

i cant believe anyone thinks this is a good idea, that it will be successful and not be a budget buster.

-Hey Dorky, Obama started off by saying he read Boehner's health care plan.

Hey FishSmell, Obama was being extremely generous and magnanimous, calling a flea a butterfly.

You Lee Harvey, you are madman, all those stories you tell...

What a fucking joke. Once again these idiots just don't get it. We know there is a problem, we know people are struggling, we know there needs to be reform, we know, we know, we know. We don't need anymore stories, we need solutions. But until they start breaking down the problem, how can one solve them?

The Sunlight Foundation is running an interesting live video stream of this get-together, one in which they also post the largest donors to whoever's on the screen at sunlightfoundation.com

"Exchanges" am too complimacated. - The Tight

"So don't give us this BS that a majority of the public wants these bills."

They will continue to ignore all the evidence at their own peril. Let 'em rant and commit themselves to the wilderness for a few decades.

"Tuesday, February 23, 2010
Voters still strongly oppose the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats and think Congress should focus instead on smaller bills that address problems individually rather than a comprehensive plan.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 41% of voters favor the proposed health care plan, while 56% oppose it. Those figures include 45% who strongly oppose the plan and just 23% who strongly favor it."

"The only closed minds here spud are the political ones standing to the left."

I don't know why ANYONE pays ANY attention to DeadPud. He's an irrelevant, impotent Canuck with no social-redeeming grace who is OBVIOUSLY not highly esteemed by his own people or he wouldn't be trying to impress those of us here. I wonder if he's even aware that Danny Williams, the head of Newfoundland Province, went to Miami for HIS heart treatment. Seems not ALL Canadians think Canadian healthcare is so excellent.

BUBUBUBUH --- WWWAAIT --- ERRRRR --- He almost lost it there for a moment - wonder if they're shocking him under the table?

#35...it should be evident, from the top down, that these people have no capacity to solve a problem, only make them larger.. that is the main issue.. these 'stories' really do not contribute to anything..yes, we have problems in healthcare.. just sadly, no real substance in solutions or offerings from anyone.. you really think that this is going to get us anywhere today??? I do not think that they realize what a bigger fool they will make of themselves with all of this..

#34 Thanks for saying Obama was the Liar Dorky.

"Rather than argue in public" didn't work Lamar.

I turned off the telly and left as soon as barry came out with the ten letters bullshit.
so he found ten letters that support him out of the 40,000 the white house gets per day...big fuckin deal...
and of course they always include letters from children who have had thier lives destroyed and hearts eaten by the evil republicans.

Spud only contributes to see himself in print..!!!!
oops, 'contributes' is certainly a far reach...

BUT...this should fun..

ready???

Nanc how about Indian Care for all!!! Or do you want to hog it all for yourself.

#41

Ignorance is, apparently, your best feature.

and all you have to know is that this health care boondoogle will suck the blood out of every working man and woman american with the real price to be at least two trillion before dems get through,
dont believe me..remember the WH has seperated the 200 plus BILLION 'dr fix' and will raise taxes on everything from tanning to driving your car.

dont tread on me

"Gubmint rulz and regularations iz tha problem!" - Dr Rethug

"A strong majority of Democrats support health care reform."

#16 | Posted by rcade

A strong majority of AMERICANS want health care reform....just NOT THIS MONSTROSITY!

One only has to remember that Oboner grew up with a 'handout' mentality... that is why his only real working experience was as community organizer and why the majority of his support exists today.. just looking for more handouts, which is a significant portion of this tragedy...

I hope the Republicans walk out after 15 minutes.

Here's an idea, open up clinics at colleges and military bases for those who can't afford or have access to doctors. Isn't an ounce of prevention, worth a pound of cure?

lets look quickly back a little IF this doesnt work out for dems...washington post reports today they already have PLAN B ready to go......no big deal>? I dont know but that means they dont give a fuck about any results from today.

and they always have reconciliation

BUT WAIT ...lets get in the wayback machine

"reconciliation circumvents the will of the people"
barak obama...2005..

and clips are out from biden and hillary and feinstein and reid and others predicting the end of the republic is reconciliation is used...but of course that was during the previous administration so what they said then doesnt matter anymore.

hypocrites are liars?
OR BOTH...you know..politicians.

-I hope the Republicans walk out after 15 minutes.

The slime trail would be too dangerous to walk on.

Most of the figures they are using are Lewin Group slanted industry figures.

I hope the Republicans walk out after 15 minutes.

They have six hours today to sell the American public on their vision for health care on live TV. It would be irresponsible for them to walk out and miss that opportunity.

Reid just called for a filibuster. That was funny.

DRSOUL

dont forget..part of his policy on the table today is another expansion of s chips...and of course if you say anything bad about this you are a child eating republican..

but it means MORE children growing up expecting and then demanding...( see violent demonstrations in europe lately ) for the govt NANNY TIT to take care of thier every need and whim

They have six hours today to sell the American public on their vision for health care on live TV. It would be irresponsible for them to walk out and miss that opportunity.

#56 | Posted by rcade
3 hours at the most. Obama is going to do some speecifying too.

I would like to see regulations passed. I would like to see them get rid of pre-existing conditions and not allow insurance companies (not just medical, but ALL INSURANCE COMPANIES: Car, home, etc) to drop paid up customers when they make a claim.

It would be irresponsible for them to walk out and miss that opportunity.

#56 | Posted by rcade at 2010-02-25 11:12 AM | Reply | Flag: Flag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

i disagree...SURPRISE!!! if barry rules this by shutting them out and not getting equal time and they DONT walk,then they are nuttless pussies and even though the state run media will color them heartless and clueless it will not effect november of 010

Here's an idea, open up clinics at colleges and military bases for those who can't afford or have access to doctors. Isn't an ounce of prevention, worth a pound of cure?

#53 | Posted by crispee_oc

That is in Obama's 11 page memo.

cspan.org

KANREI post 60

seriously bro..
tell me how you pay for the no preexisting thing because you know as well as I do that many peolpe will try and get the ambulance to stop and let them get insurance on the way to the hospital...okay a little extreme but you get the point...

I wish these fools would simply tell it like it is. We are a fat and lazy nation. Our unhealthy life styles are the reason the costs are so high.

AK--they are taking turns talking.

Obama is the facilitator.

The problem is if they are pushing fo rthe Senate bill as the starting point--it's a non starter.

Obama needs a red light buzzer.... for both sides.

#64 | Posted by crispee_oc

Agreed. I read a report yesterday that 75% of health dollars are a result of either alcohol, tobacco, or obesity. Sad.

Who has the blackberry near a microphone!?!

#58....since I not beholden to either side of this aisle, since Oboner has been in office, he must satisfy his own existence.. give, give, give no matter the cost.. that is his power, getting the bottomfeeders and mental handouts to support more.. again, health reform of some nature is needed, but this is not about real health reform, it has gotten way off track and into such deep political fighting, that the whole nation suffers again.. he certainly is not interested in but one thing...PASS HIS BILL...he needs a notch on his belt, no matter the collateral damage to ANYONE..
he is scrambling these days.. loss of all credibility, a WH posse that is very inefficient and experienced like him and the electorate is beginning to wake up to this..
those who were the majority of his support will probably never vote again anyway unless he bumps the 'handouts' up even greater with more promises of them...

tell me how you pay for the no preexisting thing

There are ways. I have a co-worker who has MS. We tried to switch payroll companies, but the insurance company the new payroll used would not take her. The fact that the 15 other employees DON'T would have covered the cost of the one that did.

Is Baucus on meds?

hhhmmm interesting...

I wish one of the gopers would ask him why someone like stupec..OH I know because he isnt a democrat baby killer...and barry wants ME to help pay for that in this thing

well then nevermind

okay and thats not good but allowing just anyone to sign up when they need it doesnt sound like the right answer although the 'answer' would be pretty hard to come up with I imagine.

Is Baucus on meds?
#71 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

Has he ever been off of them?

wasnt he one that people thought might be under the influence not long ago..surely he isnt today.

for those of you too smart and too good to look at a site like the one linked..here it is for you and your starbucks, foo foo eating elitists buddies wont have to know you looked at it

BUT HERE is what leading democrats think about reconcilation..
well at least BEFORE obama..

www.thefoxnation.com

Has he ever been off of them?

#74 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2010-02-25 11:30 AM

Good point!

This is going badly for the Repubs... the Dems seem reasonable and cordial, finding areas of agreement, while the other side continues their standard talking points and partisan caricatures of the bills using industry slanted numbers.

Agreed. I read a report yesterday that 75% of health dollars are a result of either alcohol, tobacco, or obesity. Sad.

#67 | Posted by gavaster at 2010-02-25 11:21 AM |

It is no secret we have a huge problem with child obesity, yet schools restrict activities during recess, eliminate physical education... When I was in school, we were encouraged to be active during recess and lunch.

Why doesn't someone just propose a bill to accomplish the pooling for small businesses thing? Bam! Big chunk of health care reform accomplished right there, and O can even chalk it up to happening under his presidency.

CORKY SAYS REPuBLICANS look bad

NOOOOOOOOOOOO gee I was thinking you were going to give us a long post telling us how great they were doing....yeah and Im a porn star too..

When I was in school, we were encouraged to be active during recess and lunch.

#79 | Posted by crispee_oc at

ME TOO

and judy E********* and I were as active at lunch as we could get away with.

This is going badly for the Repubs... the Dems seem reasonable and cordial, finding areas of agreement, while the other side continues their standard talking points and partisan caricatures of the bills using industry slanted numbers.

#78 | Posted by Corky

No shit. Who's bill are they chewing the fat about?

#79 | Posted by crispee_oc

Too many lawsuits filed because Little Billy fucked up Tiny Tim during recess, or Suzy Shortpants fell and scraped her knee.

-Im a porn star too..

Internet category: Elderly librarian porn

good one live
why not tort reform?
OH I KNOW..too many checks from the ambulance chasers.

why not across state lines?
no reason at all...

#78...

Corky, you have a couple of medical degrees and are probably more qualified than most of those at this summitt. Just curious what you think people can do to lower their current and future costs in regards to healthcare?

lol! He's counting minutes? What a weiner.

A RElaTED NOTE,....

UNION PAYOFF STILL IN BARRYS PLAN...

this is one of the bullshit parts of this boondoogle that makes me violently mad...what total bullshit..

and yesterday on fox VALERI JERRET told major garret.."dont we all want to play by the same rules"...

good question ...

-Just curious what you think people can do to lower their current and future costs in regards to healthcare?

Vote Democratic.

My degrees are not medical, btw.

thank God...

I lost the stream. Screen went to black. Seems suspicious.

L_R?

"Too many lawsuits filed because Little Billy fucked up Tiny Tim during recess, or Suzy Shortpants fell and scraped her knee."

Exactly. Schools are more worried about getting sued today than they were 40 years ago. The schools have gone from accepting kids get hurt, to doing everything they can to make sure they can't get hurt.

I have said it numerous times- there are ways to fix the problems. We regulated the airlines without a government option carrier. We can do the same for insurance companies. As a Floridian, I can tell you that Medical Insurance companies are not the only ones playing these games. A LARGE PERCENT of Floridians are dropped by their home insurance carriers if they make claims after a hurricane. The entire Insurance industry needs fixing!

-Just curious what you think people can do to lower their current and future costs in regards to healthcare?

Vote Democratic.

My degrees are not medical, btw.
#90 | Posted by Corky at 2010-02-25 11:43 AM

Why am I surprised you couldn't answer a straight question without showing your partisanship. Guess I gave you too much credit.

I thought you had a couple of degrees in psychology, looks like I was 0-2 in one post.

Utilities in this country are highly regulated, and that isn't even controversial anymore as most people understand how badly the power companies would screw them if they could.

Insurers are no different, and health care is no less a necessity than are utilities.

may be an area of bipartisan interest..is there ANYONE here who hasnt paid for years on car insurance...filed a claim and then got dropped?

Both sides have said repeatedely "this is where we can agree". Why can't we create a new bill that has what we do agree on and get that passed?

CORKY

see the box thing again coming out around 2020..
said to cost 3,000 and will power home with no carbon stuff and no power thingys...

looks real promising.

-couple of degrees in psychology

I have psychology and counseling degrees, not psychiatry, which would be medical.

IF you got off your ass and went for a jog, you might be healthier.

Why can't we create a new bill that has what we do agree on and get that passed?

#98 | Posted by gavaster at 2010-02-25 11:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

last thing dems want is anything that voters might think was a gop idea...party of no is the NEw 'its bush's fault'

If I was there I would ask Obama to name one government run program that is more efficent and better run since the government has taken it over.

Medicade is going broke and as even Barry admits has huge amounts of waste. It dosent pay out enough to cover the cost of most procedures in hospitals. The hospitals reley on jacked up rates on private insurance to cover the medicade and non insured.

In Wisconsin we have BadgerCare and its broke and they are voting today to open it to more people knowing that they dont have the funds to do so.

SS is unsubstainable and needs to be changed to remane solvant in the next 10 - 20 years

If they can do incremental fixes to the healthcare system and we see actual results not pie in the sky dream numbers I would consider letting them find more fixes.

HEY I run all the time...in fact I may have to run here in a couple of mins...wink wink

AND AGAIN...
this will mean taxing americans till they bleed..
as dennis miller said last night

if the donner party were in california today, they would be taxed a 'food and beverage' tax

They are laughing at Obama's stuttering and oblivious Obama says "w..w...wait..ah.let me finish".

Hate to say it but I'm beginning to think that Obama isn't the problem. Sure, he's a left wing loon and I disagree with practically everything he says, but that's just ideology, and differences are expected. It's Reed and his ilk that are the primary causes of the problems. They absolutely refuse to listen to anyone, and merely do what ever they damn well please. Most of the country want some sort of reform, but most of the country also want these bills to go away. Reed, though, will listen to no one. To him, bipartisanship is everyone agreeing with him. Even Obama said at the outset he doubts anything will change. The summit is a farce, plain and simple.

Obama shows pragmatic reasonableness, while the Repubes stick to their ideological talking points.

This bill titled Healthcare Reform is a farce it. Its nothing more than sharing the wealth that Barry promised in his campain

I have psychology and counseling degrees, not psychiatry, which would be medical.

IF you got off your ass and went for a jog, you might be healthier.
#100 | Posted by Corky at 2010-02-25 11:54 AM |

That's the best you can offer? Seems like a waste of two degrees. Like I said, I gave you way too much credit. Should have known you are no better and lack the thought of those in the summitt.

Obama shows pragmatic reasonableness, while the Repubes stick to their ideological talking points.

#107 | Posted by Corky at 2010

my first question to you would be...are you watching the same thing others are?

Obama's point, just a couple minutes ago, about the sale of insurane accross state lines will go unanswered by Republicans who will later make their same argumetn for sale across state lines without ever addressing what he said. Or...at least I don't think they will deal with it.

DAMN I dont know which is worse...watching it or reading BLOW BY BLOW here...lol

-Seems like a waste of two degrees.

What those degrees have to do with physical health is not obvious, however, I can tell you that, from your postings, just don't listen to those voices you hear, K?

I take everything back I said about the telePrompter. Please, set it up, ASAP. Give him three. Four even. Send me the bill.

Meanwhile, jobless claims up 12% in last two weeks:

money.cnn.com

LET'S SPEND MO MONEY - MO MONEY!

"Obama's point, just a couple minutes ago, about the sale of insurane (sic) accross (sic) state lines will go unanswered by Republicans who will later make their same argumetn (sic) for sale across state lines without ever addressing what he said. Or...at least I don't think they will deal with it."

This has been a republican point for years. They've addressed it time and again. It's been discussed here on the Retort for months. I was discussing it yesterday or the day before. Maybe Obama's finally coming around?

Kyle just exemplified the ideological sticking point... Repubs want any low-level, insignificant health plan to be available in an Exchange, no lower limits, so that people have the choice of buying a poor plan that screws them.... that's just fair capitalism, don't 'cha know.

"DAMN I dont know which is worse...watching it or reading BLOW BY BLOW here...lol"

Both are too stupid to see they are caught up in their own ideology and offer nothing. Or have the brains God gave a billygoat to address the root of the problem.

TAKE CARE OF THE ECONOMY!

First things first.

By MIKE ALLEN | 2/25/10 10:55 AM EST

Read more: www.politico.com

After a brief period of consultation following the White House health reform summit, congressional Democrats plan to begin making the case next week for a massive, Democrats-only health care plan, party strategists told POLITICO.

A Democratic official said the six-hour summit was expected to "give a face to gridlock, in the form of House and Senate Republicans."

Democrats plan to begin rhetorical, and perhaps legislative, steps toward the Democrats-only, or reconciliation, process early next week, the strategists said.

After the summit, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid planned to take the temperature of their caucuses.

"The point [of the summit] is to alter the political atmospherics, and it will take a day or two to sense if it succeeded," the official said.

thanks scoot for giving us the REAL story behind this charade.
I think I will instead backwash my waterpic

Just as I predicted, the same argument about selling insurance across state lines without dealing with the problems associated which the President talked about.

well at least the dems give a complete answer on every aspect of this issue.

ha ha ha aha

YEaH I KNOW...I could hardly keep from laughing myslef.

A child with a cleft palate and acne?

I didn't know your Dad was in the Senate, Aflakbibble....

dont thank me, thank the politico and the "strategerists"

"What those degrees have to do with physical health is not obvious, however, I can tell you that, from your postings, just don't listen to those voices you hear, K?"
#113 | Posted by Corky at 2010-02-25 12:09 PM

You have two degrees and don't see the correlation that a healthy body equals a healthy mind? What the fuck did they teach you? How to be a partisan little whining bitch? You must have gotten straight A's in that subject. I would also bet you are offended by my claim we are a fat and lazy nation and it hit way close to home.

didn't know your Dad was in the Senate, Aflakbibble....

#124 | Posted by Corky at

my dad is dead...thanks for the relaspe DOCTOR!!!!!!!!

HEY CORK

being a doctor and all...
"DO NO HARM"

in other words...dont post anymore...hee hee

I am not a big fan of Mccain, but I tend to agree with that.

John

- my claim we are a fat and lazy nation

lol, Crispy Critter... however true that may be, and it is obvious to all concerned that it is, in your case we'll call that "projection".

TAKE CARE OF THE ECONOMY!

First things first.

#119 | Posted by nanc

What good is having a job if you die from a preexisting condition?

Reforming Health Care would go a long way to restoring our confidence in ourselves and stabilizing our economy. Too bad the Republicans are not actually interested in that.

"I am not a big fan of Mccain, but I tend to agree with that."

He made some good points but I doubt if most of the other Republicans would agree with some of them, such as reimportation of drugs.

McCain just got bitch slapped by Obama for his whining about the process rather than discussing solutions.

"The election is over..... and you lost, mah bitch!"

I would also bet you are offended by my claim we are a fat and lazy nation and it hit way close to home.

#126 | Posted by crispee_oc

A Wellness Program is an integral part of the Democratic plan. I guess that means you support it now?

Did Obama just tell McCain that the campaign is over?

Could've fooled me. I thought Obama was kind of rude, but I'm sure the libbies here would just say it's high time Obama put the old coot McCain in his place for having the temerity to bring up the fact that most people in his state hate the bill.

#126...Well done! I'll bet that left a welt.

Must be nice to have a job where you can sit around watching webcasts all morning.

Every time I hear a politician use the phrase "hard-working American", I wretch.

"I thought Obama was kind of rude"

MeCAin was sort of rude giving his campaign speech covering all sorts of things which weren't on the topic.

So, Cantor brings stage props....

FINALLY - a lucid voice - Eric Cantor!

ERIC CANTOR IN 2012!

Cantor's one of the best assets the Democrats have.

the guys I feel for are the ones who are always behind whoever is talking..
they stand there and have to look interested in what 'thier guy or gal' is saying and cant even pick thier nose with that camera on...

...so the main complaint by Repubes so far is... that there is any lower limit at all in the type of plan than can be offered on the Exchange..... showing their fealty the insurance industry lowballers....

Let's give props- the healthcare debate is on TV. A promise kept.

Cantor is an idiot and a drama queen. Why else would that dweeb need props?

Also, Obama's little jab and McCain seemed petty.

Must be nice to have a job where you can sit around watching webcasts all morning.

Every time I hear a politician use the phrase "hard-working American", I wretch.

#137 | Posted by apparatchik at 2010-02-25 12:37 PM | Reply | Flag: wishes he had A job

MeCAin was sort of rude giving his campaign speech covering all sorts of things which weren't on the topic.

#138 | Posted by danni at

TRANSLATION....mccain was ALSO rude for pointing out all of he LIEs obama told during the campaign such as funding and war in iraq and so many other issues..

ERIC CANTOR IN 2012!
#140 | Posted by nanc

Go for it!
And don't let the fact that he'll be forgotten as quickly as William Miller hold you back.
Please.

Why else would that dweeb need props?

Big Carrot Top fan?

I love watching Obama dismantle Repube talking points from complete jackasses like Cantor.

I love watching Obama stall out and govern like a complete jackass like Carter

A Wellness Program is an integral part of the Democratic plan. I guess that means you support it now?

#134 | Posted by donnerboy at 2010-02-25 12:35 PM

Who wouldn't donner? It should be the main part of the plan, obviously nobody gives a rats ass because it doesn't give immediate results and it puts the emphasis on where it should be. Personal responsibility.

Big Carrot Top fan?

#149 | Posted by kanrei

CaRROT TOP is 45 today....it was on fox is the only reason I know that...hee hee

CaRROT TOP is 45 today..

That is why Cantor used the props: tribute.

WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!

Carrot Top is only 45?

okay

LUNCH

besides..this thread is making my head spin..

(insert lame jokes here)

WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!

#155 | Posted by nanc

no kidding nancbabe..
anyone who thinks this whole thing will ONLY be 800 or so billion is living in a fantasy...

Cantor just demos the Repube dishonesty, trying to infer that all policies would be defined by an ebil gubmint bureaucrat, when the effort is just to keep schlock policies out of the Exchange.


WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!

#155 | Posted by nanc

Then we also can't afford free healthcare for free-loading native Americans.

He made some good points but I doubt if most of the other Republicans would agree with some of them, such as reimportation of drugs.

#132 | Posted by danni at 2010-02-25 12:33 PM

Actually a majority of repubs voted for the drug import measure while it got the support of only half the dems and didn't get the support of Obama either.

Cantor just demos the Repube dishonesty, trying to infer that all policies would be defined by an ebil gubmint bureaucrat, when the effort is just to keep schlock policies out of the Exchange.

#159 | Posted by Corky at

here is where you get 'called',...just as in the cost..if you dont think there will be one of those gobmit people telling you that the gubmit cant afford to help you because you are too old,. then you TOO are living in a fantasy world so click your heels and head on back to kansas dorothy..

This isn't a "summit", and if this is the way Obama handles himself when he's sitting down with the G8 or the G20, it's little mystery to me why foreign leaders can't stand him either.

The Republicans have their concerns, and when they bring them up, the President "demolishes their talking points"--to paraphrase from the posters above. Maybe they're not talking points, but rather non-negotiable stands.

So, to heck with him. Let Obama do what he wants, let the Republicans do what they feel they have to do, and let the voters decide.

Do you slobber when you type, blt?

If you think that now some insurance exec won't cut you off to get a bonus to buy new golf clubs, you are living in a fantasy world.

you arrogant ASS...
not you corkster...but the subject of the link

www.realclearpolitics.com

I hope they throw that fudgepacking weasel under that bus they are taking back to the House for the vote.

Along with his childish props.

So, it's obvious who in this debate is representing the poor mistreated insurers who already suffer too much regulation.... and who wants to protect the American people from their gouging.

It's going great so far.

hey if as long as they are nike or calloway...

I am not in favor of what they do to people..remember im on a fixed income but the GUBMIT taking them over is not acceptable

AND any savings on premiums will NOT MAKE up for the MASSIVE taxes coming down on other things to make up the RED figUREs in this ....

#137 | Posted by apparatchik at 2010-02-25 12:37 PM | Reply | Flag: wishes he had A job

Oooooooohhhh, burn!

#146 | Posted by donnerboy at 2010-02-25 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag: Wishes he had MY job

hope they throw that fudgepacking weasel under that bus they are taking back to the House for the vote.

Along with his childish props.

#166 | Posted by axe at 2010

YES!!!

another wonderfully academic and scholarly piece of input from AXE

shit son....you must be 'smarter than a 5th grader'

-Maybe they're not talking points, but rather non-negotiable stands.

Ideological concerns in this case means protecting their Sugar Daddies from further regulation.

I didn't catch the name of the lady who spoke at the end but she brought up Lee Iaccoca and the well known, long term need for reform from the perspective of American manufacturing. Her comments were a good argument for Medicare for all to FINALLY take the burden of healthcare off of American business to let them compete more easily with our foriegn trade competitors.

Also, Obama's little jab and McCain seemed petty.

#145 | POSTED BY TAXMAN

I thought the same thing. Sounds like Obama's getting a little tired of things not going as well as the last time he spoke to Republicans. He's getting a little snippy...

"AND any savings on premiums will NOT MAKE up for the MASSIVE taxes coming down on other things to make up the RED figUREs in this ...."

you've been saying that since Obama was elected but taxes are lower now than they were when he took office. But don't let the facts disturb your anti-Obama mania.

#155....you are correct, NANC..too costly and misses many points
but, that is of no issue to Oboner...costs, for 'handout' mentalities are irrevelant and not understood at all.. this is about 'notching the belt'..nothing to do with reality of healthcare reform..

sure they are.
ask the MILLIONS OF POOR people who had tobacco prices go up by a large percentage...and you can argue that they shouldnt be smoking but they do..

and are you talking about that tax cut that dems bring up all the time...the one that allows you to take the family to MACDONALDS once a week..
please...nice try but also look back at the word I used...COMING..its simple...it CANT BE paid for if you include the drs fix...the UNION THUG DEAL THATS STILL in and also dont forget..
the NEBraSKA deal is still in.,.they just gave it to everyone...hIGHER cost not in cbo accounting as I read it.

Dems plan for Gov. Healthcare will be exactly like Monty Pythons the Meaning of Life...
-"Are you an organ donor?"
-"Um.."
-"Check his License"
-"He is!"
-"Sir we need your kidney, someone else needs it"
-"Nut I'm still alive, I need it"
-"Sir your an organ donor"

DRSOUL..
again its also about november of 2010...anyone who doesnt believe that is in that same vortex that cork and danni are in.....

RE#172

It has been explained over and over how reforming health care would help the economy yet we still hear the cries:

WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!

#155 | Posted by nanc

We can't afford it the way it is either.

I don't expect anything to come out of Health Care reform but more taxes and less care.

My mom basically had her Job changed this year because of one provision in new Medicare rules that says Nurse Practitioners cannot do nuclear heart test anymore. The test save lives, the advancements in heart failure care are unmistakable. Because of people like my mother doing the test the Doctors focus more on the patient, and with more information in hand to do so. When they talk about cutting waste and fraud, her job is what they consider waste. Yet look at them today with nice little name plaques that cost who knows how much to produce. We don't need a mandate from the Libs to cut waste and fraud it's already illegal, the action to take is to enforce existing laws not make new ones that cost huge sums to first study then implement. We already have Public sector hacks being paid to do this job.

My simple mind thinks there would be a much bigger change in Healthcare and Insurance if the Gov. came up with something simple like: "We are investing in cancer treatment with all avenues to do so to be used, the commitment we as the Fed Gov. are making to our country is this: If you get cancer, you are taken care of under this plan 100% whatever a doctor recommends can help you we will fund. No more people losing coverage half way through treatment, or pawning their belongings or emptying college funds to pay for care their insurance company won't provide. Knowing cancer treatment is one of the most expensive sectors of Healthcare we are taking that burden away from the consumer via rate hikes, and off the hospitals backs via probono care.

Just think of all the money that could be better spent if it was spent on actual targeted care to improve American life and get closer to beating cancer. We already have gov doctors and scientist researching this, we already have money that gets written off books for free care that is given (the funding and model exists already) Without a gaurentee to the Citizens and the Industry that such a sector will no longer be a burden via cost and debt, I feel we would accelerate cancer treatment as was done with polio..

Now I'm an not saying all the care would be Gov employees I'm saying the bills would be paid by this program. Take it out of medicare, take it out of tax breaks, take it out of funding to these fed agencies by switching priorities.

With this we could look at it again after a 5-10 yr period and really see what the true individual needs to be paying for insurance and care.

Sometimes it is as simple as taking on just one problem, especially when it is the most expensive and common problem with people being denied care.

another wonderfully academic and scholarly piece of input from AXE

shit son....you must be 'smarter than a 5th grader'

#170 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2010-02-25 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag:apparently has never even read his own dribble

also danni

people who dont have insurance but get sick and THEN sign up
someone has to PAY for that.

UNION deals ...someone elsE has to pay for that....

drs fix...that HAS to come from somewhere else...

illegals...havent gotten to them but THEY WONT be paying for thier shit

and of course ABORTION....someone has to pay for that and even if its not free to someone...the premiums will SKYROCKET...I dont understand how smart people like you two are so blinded by partisan ideas...
AND you cant drop the drs reimbursement lower and KEEP drs for medicare ...

181 donner

if you seriously are comparing my post which may from time to time have some personal jab in them with this poster who RARELY if ever actually says anything but the attacks like this one..then I hope there is room for you in corksters little world...lol

"people who dont have insurance but get sick and THEN sign up
someone has to PAY for that."

That's the reason for mandate for everyone to buy insurance. That's Obama's and the Dems proposal, what's yours??? Just do nothing about pre-existing conditions???

"and of course ABORTION....someone has to pay for that and even if its not free to someone...the premiums will SKYROCKET..."

That doesn't make any sense at all. Most people's insurance doesn't pay for abortions now, the federal government cannot subsidize abortion, there is nothing in any of this legislation to indicate abortions will be paid for or that abortions will effect the price of premiums at all. You ought to try and understand the talking points before you repeat them.

And as usual, the GOP comes to the table with only words, "We have a better idea", on an empty plate. Good God. How stupid do conservatives have to be. The dumb leading the dumber.

BL2 you babble more than any poster I have ever seen. You talk so much shit I have to keep a roll of toilet paper handy just to wipe my screen after every one of your posts.

Is anyone else getting the idea that Obama just isn't a very good person?

"Is anyone else getting the idea that Obama just isn't a very good person?"

No one that is honest will say that but then that never stops you.
How much per post?

That's the reason for mandate for everyone to buy insurance. That's Obama's and the Dems proposal, what's yours??? Just do nothing about pre-existing conditions???

#184 | Posted by danni

please...people will pay the LOWEr fine and you know that...

and I have said before that there should be something done about pre existing and I dont know what it is..but govt takeover and taxing ME to pay for others isnt it...I hope

That's the reason for mandate for everyone to buy insurance.

#184 | Posted by danni

The first thing the Supreme Court would strike down with Obamacare would be the mandate forcing every American to buy something from a private company. That precedence would be extremely dangerous.

That doesn't make any sense at all. Most people's insurance doesn't pay for abortions now, the federal government cannot subsidize abortion, there is nothing in any of this legislation to indicate abortions will be paid for or that abortions will effect the price of premiums at all. You ought to try and understand the talking points before you repeat them.

#185 | Posted by danni

danni...you need to read something as well...I guess you just forgot that when the senate bill came out...and this is the same one..that not using language PREVENTING it is thus allowing it and also..BARRYS BIll provides either 3 or 6 BILLION dollars to planned parenthood..want to Guess what they will use it for..
and remember these FACTS you can check on the next time you want to go all AXE on me...

Obama is a good person in WAY over his head. I still say anyone who SHOULD have run in 2008, didn't because they were smart enough to see the mess Bush was leaving behind. Hillary (a woman), Obama (a black man), and McCain (a void) saw this as their once shot to get elected.

Is anyone else getting the idea that Obama just isn't a very good person?

That's laughable. I know you like to be over-the-top, but really, that's a stretch.

"Just do nothing about pre-existing conditions???"

Are smokers considered as having a pre-existing condition? How about those that are obese? High blood pressure? High cholesteral? Not putting you on the spot, just curious if anyone knows. Also, should insurance companies not be allowed to force their current and future clients to have a physical?

BL2 you babble more than any poster I have ever seen. You talk so much shit I have to keep a roll of toilet paper handy just to wipe my screen after every one of your posts.

#187 | Posted by donnerboy

translation...BABBle...definit
ion...anything written that I have no answer for and may not even understand.

Oama does not look very happy at this point in the proceedings - guess this is not going quite as he had planned. Those darned Republicans actually came with specifics to question, how could they???..........

The Leftwing healthcare agenda is now transparent. It was transparent before. everyone could see through it.

-Obama is a good person in WAY over his head.

Considering that he is intellectually and charismatically heads and shoulders above most of the people in that room, and as someone who voted for Hil in the primary, I can't guarantee that she would have been any more successful with health care while facing historic numbers of Rethug filibuster threats and extensive public misinformation and fear mongering.

Though she would likely have left more heel marks on their foreheads.

Afkababbler,

EVERYTHING you write is PROOF that you have no answer for anything and no understanding of WTF you are typing with one hand while pulling dingleberrys with the other.

Why the nice library lady dosn't mace you at least twice a day is beyond me.

@Danni that is actually Mitt Romney's proposal that the Libs have retooled, and I am not a Romney Supporter that guy is a plastic Ken Doll who thinks he deserves to be President. Massachusetts is upside f'in down with their healthcare debacle rates go up...

New England is a prime example of why you should have insurance you can take anywhere. I live in NH and have had to see doctors in Maine before and pay out of pocket, there was no other choice but to see the doctor in Maine because there wasn't one in NH. Same thing with people in Maine, Vermont,Connecticut, Rhode Island going to Boston to see a specialist or surgeon.

You like the dems plan Danni then you must like Mitt Romney, and if you like that then you must like paying artificially high prices driven by Gov. Intervention for a crap product. Just cause everyone would have a mandate to get HC doesn't = Quality care.

The fact that health care has gotten all the way to the point it is now proves that the morons pretending he is less competent or intelligent than anyone else in that room is ridiculous.

You Leftwing pussies should just do the 51 vote and ram it through. You dont have the balls to do it. You can't handle the fact that you will be paying the price in the fall. you want a few Republicans to have blood on their hands as well so you can pretend it is a bipartisan bill.

Why the nice library lady dosn't mace you at least twice a day is beyond me.

She does actually. Why do you think he picked the branch he goes to?

-She does actually.

She uses blt's favorite Essence of Racehorse flavored mace.

"You like the dems plan Danni then you must like Mitt Romney,"

ONe problem with your logic...Mitt Romney doesn't support his own plan any more. Also, insurance companies should be selling across state lines but with a minimum standard of coverage which is what the Dems proposal is. Otherwise you could end up with insurance based on whichever state has the lowest standards and find you pay your premiums but aren't covered for much of anything. That has nothing really to do with your coverage still being honored in another state, that's a choice the insurance company can make.

BLT's last words,

"Don't taze me, ho!"

If George Bush had invited a bunch of Dems together, then torn into Kerry and reminded him "the election is over"--this thread would be 500 long and piling up fast.

What the Democrats are discussing, right now, at lunch, is that whatever they do have to be through reconciliation, and that they don't have a prayer of getting anyone on the Republican side to go along. That's what they're talking about on MSNBC, right now--no chance after this morning that the Republicans will go along.

I dislike McCain intensely, and thought what the president did with him, and with Cantor, was despicable. He interrupted them, he pretended to be shuffling papers. Just rude.

This is what elections are for. Let's see how many Dems are willing to commit political suicide for this turd.

What I don't understand is why don't they take everything they agree on, put it in a bill, vote on it and pass it. Then argue what they don't agree on.

#207 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2010-02-25 01:45 PM | Reply | Flag: Texas size FF!

The clock:

Democrats: about 74 minutes
Republicans: about 37 minutes

#208

Blow it out 'cher ear, ya whiny bitch.

Obama bitch slapped McCain for droning on about process instead of solutions.... remindign him that the election was over long ago.... and no one in memory has ever needed a reason to punk Eric Cantor.

208 | Posted by rightisright at 2010-02-25 01:46 PM | Reply | Flag

I had no problem with the way he handled Cantor, as I think Cantor was just trying to put on a show rather than engage in any real form of debate. I can see how the back and forth with McCain was frustrating because it was like the he was rehashing campaign material, but Obama's parting jab was not needed.

Fair enough. That's why you're one of the 25 percenters. You thought this was a big political event where the president is punking his opponents. I turned it on because the markets are too ugly over on CNBC, thanks to another round of horrible unemployment numbers, and thought even kubuki theater would be entertaining.

And I was right. Most Americans are now turned off by this blowhard, and I can see why. So could you, if you were honest with yourself.

The fact that health care has gotten all the way to the point it is now proves that the morons pretending he is less competent or intelligent than anyone else in that room is ridiculous.

#202 | Posted by danni

It's not that he isn't clever, he's just incompetent in the area of governing and does not know how to legislate since he's never done it before. The other people in the room are experts. Poor idealog just doesn't get it. He is definitely working hard, but then again, so do washing machines.

Danni

Go to a library and read the Gov. Minimum standards book

Says there can be a % of aphids (earth worms) in ground beef.
Bugs in peanutbutter

and so on and so on

You trust in the Gov. and see how that works out for ya, I'll trust in the American People, My friends and Neighbors. The Gov. wants it all, everything can you not see that or is that what you want??? to be a serf?

This country was not made, protected, and still in existence so fools like you could change what its all about.

Obama is naive. Had he spent his only term in the Federal Government actually in the government and not running for a higher office, he might have learned how the system works. He didn't. He thought charisma would carry the day. It did carry him to the White House (McCain had none and Palin was a joke), but it will not get bills passed or things done.

"Says there can be a % of aphids (earth worms) in ground beef.
Bugs in peanutbutter"

Yeah, we'd be better off if there were no standards.

If only there were no FDA right???

Worlds largest purchaser of Aphids as a good: McDonald's
Why do they add it to their beef? Because the Gov. provided them the opportunity to cut down the quality of their product

Go eat poop you liberal and see if food comes out the other end, sounds like that would be a good analogy for your mind.

Keep diggin buddy because the FDA in my mind are the ones who are supposed to prevent tainted food from hitting the stores. It happens every week another recall. FDA inspectors have offices in the factories they are totally incompetent. Look at the Gov. as an example of regulation and being a provider in the beef recall two years ago where 90% of the meat was part of the Gov. Run school food program.....

Trust the Gov.!!! yaaaaaaaa(howard dean voice)

Well--Part 1 was really boring--except for the props and Obama being rude..

Let's see how Part 2 gets done.

Why doesn't someone get a sketch board with the big paper and write down the items that they have agreed on?

That would be the bill at the end of the day.

CNN Poll INTERESTING:

Twenty-five percent of people questioned in the poll say Congress should pass legislation similar to the bills passed by both chambers, with 48 percent saying lawmakers should work on an entirely new bill and a quarter saying Congress should stop all work on health care reform.

politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com

25% support bill
25% want all health care reform to stop
48% want new bill

This means 73% of America does not agree with Obama.

I love how Obama looks so interested when democrats are talking compared to the disdain when republicans are speaking. You can see the hatred on his face and in his eyes. Not very Presidential.

BTW - liked the letter Tom Harkin just read.

-Most Americans are now turned off by this blowhard

He has the same numbers as Saint Reagan had at this time of his term.

What you hear are the anti-intellectual rwingnuts that live under your bed and whisper "Muslim!" and "Socialist" to you all night long.

No wonder you're a freakin' bed wetter.

"Go eat poop you liberal and see if food comes out the other end, sounds like that would be a good analogy for your mind."

Yeah, we'd be better off if McDonalds could sell 100% poop sandwiches you idiot. Possibly the dumbest person I've encountered today.

This means 73% of America does not agree with what they have been told is in the Bill.

WHO wold agree with a "government takeover" by a black Muslim Socialist?

"This means 73% of America does not agree with Obama."

About the same number who support single payer.

WHO wold agree with a "government takeover" by a black Muslim Socialist

The World Health Organization probably would now that you mention it.

that's the point of the facts in a free market Danni

McDonald's wouldn't be who they are if the sold 100% crap product, because no one would buy it.....

You Libs pretend the Gov. will fix you, only you can fix you dumbass

Of course, when health care reform is passed after 60 years and 7 Pres failing to do it, people will forget the awful process and Obama will be rewarded by the electorate, and history, for his effort.

"McDonald's wouldn't be who they are if the sold 100% crap product, because no one would buy it....."

How would you know, they'd probably be selling you dog meat sandwiches and calling them hamburgers.
They don't have inspections in China, why do you think we get poison dog food and toys made with lead??? Reap Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" and maybe you'd get a perspective on why we need standards and inspections. But you won't cuz you don't read anything except right wing nonsense.

#230 | Posted by Corky

So the ends now justify the means?

#232

The process was always going to be ugly, whether he tried it like Hil did or like he did thru Congress.

Which gave the Repub/insurance industry their chance to fearmonger it.

That the Bill isn't perfect in anyone's opinion shouldn't be a surprise, either.

But it's much better than the status quo.

people will forget the awful process and Obama will be rewarded by the electorate, and history, for his effort.

And when Iraq is a gleaming example of democracy in the Middle East, people will forget the awful process and Bush will be rewarded by the electorate, and history, for his effort.

Sound familiar?

This has been all the proof we need that federal government has no place in state business.

Send them ALL back to their U.S. Constitution classes.

"BTW - liked the letter Tom Harkin just read."

Harkin also likened high-risk pools to segregation. Obama echoed it and both claim it won't work and is not fair. Obama claims unless enough healthy people sign up, the high-risk people's premiums will be higher. What the hell is the definition of high-risk? Of course their premiums are going to be higher. But to pretend this is segregation is simply laughable.

No, I think the Iraqi people will get credit, if that ever happens.

Otherwise, asked and answered.

Tom Coburn for President!

Otherwise, asked and deflected

Got it

What I don't understand is why don't they take everything they agree on, put it in a bill, vote on it and pass it. Then argue what they don't agree on.

#209 | Posted by pragmatous at 2010-02-25 01:46 PM

Because that would be too successful.

What is your supposed point, Kanrei? That because the process of change is ugly, we should keep the status quo?

What is it about what I said that so rankles your delicate sensibilities?

#209

Same reason everyone agrees with equal rights, but gets bogged down fighting over the words "marriage" or "civil unions."

The only accurate and productive comment came in the first five minutes. They have spent all this time on designing a car nobody wants or will buy. No matter how much you want to talk about how hard you worked or how everyone's ideas are included, the bottom line is the car will not sell.

What is your supposed point, Kanrei?

You are so rude Corky that you should just skip my posts as I don't really want to talk to you ever again.

Of course, when health care reform is passed after 60 years and 7 Pres failing to do it, people will forget the awful process and Obama will be rewarded by the electorate, and history, for his effort.

And when Iraq is a gleaming example of democracy in the Middle East, people will forget the awful process and Bush will be rewarded by the electorate, and history, for his effort.

Sound familiar?

#234 | Posted by kanrei

Take a guess genius.

I must give credit to the Left here. Most of the righties here are flaming hypocrites who are trying now everything they hated when the Left tried it. So far, only Corky and Danni are embracing the tactics of those they used to condemn.

-You are so rude Corky that you should just skip my posts as I don't really want to talk to you ever again.

When you untwist your panties and apologize, yet again.... I just won't accept this time. How about that?

Your analogy, however much a stretch, may be the case as some people may credit Bush.

What that means about what I said, though, isn't pertinent in any way I can imagine.

When you untwist your panties and apologize, yet again.... I just won't accept this time. How about that?

How about go fuck yourself you hypocritcal asshole?

how everyone's ideas are included

#243 | Posted by crispee_oc at 2010-02-25 02:50 PM

Again, why don't they pick some of the shit they agree on, and work that out and get it passed, instead of trying to pile everything in?

The "everything" bill looks like it may not pass but I bet they could get a whole lot done with smaller individual bills. And O can still say it happened under his presidency.

-So far, only Corky and Danni are embracing the tactics of those they used to condemn.

What a whiny little bitch. Those fence-sitting hemorrhoids must be acting up again.

LD--I bet they could get a bill passed if they just wrote down the things they agree on.

Is anyone there taking notes on what they are agreeing on??

There is no sketch paper pad around..

This is the woof and wheeee show.

What a whiny little bitch

Reflection caught your eye you little piece of shit?

Fence-sitter is the hack's term for those who show consistancy in position. Unlike you who is nothing more than a cheerleading fool.

"So far, only Corky and Danni are embracing the tactics of those they used to condemn."

I'll be honest, I don't remember ever condemning the process of reconciliation, I don't even know if I was aware of it. REgardless, if the Dems should choose not to use it now that would not prevent the Rethugs from using it if they regain the majority. Secondly, the Dems have a higher obligation to their constituents to do their best to pass health care reform and to reject the same tool which has been used many, many times by the other side would not be serving their constituents. If you think that makes me a hypocrit, uh....I don't care.

And I should not have included Danni. She at least thinks before she posts instead of your pathetic "Obama is always right, the RNC hates America" nonsense.

ROFL We get crap from China Danni because the EPA and other red tape prevent growth in this country, and your Liberal Idea of taxing the shit out of everyone to benefit those who do nothing for no one, is the reason companies flea this country for cheap labor. Republicans are to blame too for taxes too but you Libs believe in them like religion....

"We don't think the government should be in control of all this we believe the People should be in charge of this."

My question is who do the Republicans think the "Government" is aliens?

If we do not have a government of the People, by the People, for the People, then we have bigger problems to resolve than Health Care in America.

The Republicans are ok with Corporations in control of your health plan but not government?

Again, if everyone would just recognize the fact that the Republican have no intention of allowing any form of Health Care Reform we could just move on and reconcile the Health Care bill and be done with it.

Everyone have a great day. Corky, go play in traffic. I have to go so you can claim victory all you want and pretend you ran me off with your lack of thought or logic or reason. Go ahead and claim your false victory to go with your fake ideas and phony beliefs.

#249...

I see those two degrees taught you tolerance and people skills with anyone that has the nerve to not agree with you. Maybe when you get over yourself and your blinding partisanship, you will learn to respect other's opinions.

That the Bill isn't perfect in anyone's opinion shouldn't be a surprise, either.

But it's much better than the status quo.

#233 | Posted by Corky at 2010-02-25 02:34 PM | Reply

For who is it better than the status quo?

Not the ones that work hard and are responsible and have to pay for their health insurance and for the new entitlement program.

I guess for the ones waiting for another free handout it might be better for a short while but the party will end when enough have had enough.

Obama to Cantor:

"The eight to nine million people you say would lose their coverage is because they're finding a better deal in the exchanges," Obama said.

Its his opinion they find a better deal in the exchanges. The fact is those 8-9 million are losing their current coverage right? Or am I misreading what the President said? Can he really guarantee that every single one of the 8 to 9 million will get better coverage? I highly doubt it.

You are so rude Corky that you should just skip my posts as I don't really want to talk to you ever again.
#234 | Posted by kanrei | Flag: Waaa! Waaa! Waaa! Crybaby.

You don't know what I read Danni,

But something I was reading about recently was all about how Democrats stood in the way of stopping slavery. And Democrats tried to prevent civil rights legislation. And 2 Democrat presidents resided over Vietnam and all the Horror it caused, and a Republican ended it.

Funny that now you are a Democrat that believes your party is built on compassion and not power.

Beachbuzz HealthCare Bill

*Single payer run by a non-profit "Company", with government oversight
*All US citizens are covered for a monthly payroll fee based on the number of dependents you have.
*All Hospital procedures and prescription drugs are capped, with a review every 3 years.
*At the end of the year ALL monthly payroll fees are adjusted based on the profit/loss of the "Company".

#260 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2010-02-25 03:05 PM | Reply | Flag:Prick crying for attention because his boyfriend is under attack

"An incremental approach is like a swimmer who is 50 feet off-shore drowning and you throw him a 10-foot rope."

Sen Harkin

They simply don't get that they could pass the vast majority of this bill in incremental steps. The only reason to want a 2,000 page bill is because its a fuck ton easier to hide shady shit in it than it is a 100 page bill that for example restricts insurers from excluding customers for pre-existing conditions and removes yearly and lifetime caps.

Its like NFL players saying, "No testing for HGH."

Interesting. On the one hand the GOP seems to want to cite the CBO favorably on certain issues, but declare the CBO incorrect when they project $100 billion a year in savings if the current bills are enacted via reconciliation. As one speaker is pointing out, either they are fair brokers/referees or they aren't. Seems as if most on both sides agree they are.

*All Hospital procedures and prescription drugs are capped, with a review every 3 years.

But where will rich Canadians go when they get sick after this fucks up our system too?

-another free handout

These are premium-based insurance plans, thank you ever so much for playing.

But we do understand that if it was your family member that was about to die for lack of insurance, that you would be horrified to hear that tax-subsidized care saved them.

Republican Senator Grassley: "I consider the CBO to be God." Okay. So you agree the current legislation will save $100 billion a year. Terrific. So support you hypocrite.

I say let the DNC pass this piece of shit with reconciliation. It will be funny to watch them cry when the political pendulum swings back and the republicans dismantle it with reconciliation.

Whoops... didn't thank about that tiny consequence did you?

"The only reason to want a 2,000 page bill is because its a fuck ton easier to hide shady shit in it than it is a 100 page bill..."

Paul Ryan pretty much pointed that out, as well as the statistics. Obama said he would love to challenge those numbers that he disagreed with, and proved he was an empty suit by going on to discuss something else.

Danni #230 Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" and maybe you'd get a perspective on why we need standards and inspections.

Me #219 FDA inspectors have offices in the factories they are totally incompetent.

I didn't say we don't need the FDA I was pointing out you believe it works as is and it obviously does not, because "The have offices in the factories" they are to blame too. It's called accountability buddy and no one in Washington (or the whole Public Sector) thinks they are accountable to us.

It's very simple if we all refuse to pay taxes they will have 0 funding......

Why would we want to force insurers to cover those with pre-existing conditions that require ongoing management? That just forces them to take on a guaranteed loss.

"Beachbuzz HealthCare Bill"

I support your bill Beachbuzz.

Obama said he would love to challenge those numbers that he disagreed with, and proved he was an empty suit by going on to discuss something else.

I'm glad the Republicans at least showed up to this event (and are handling themselves quite well). The last time they were on camera with Obama was a fucking joke.

The reason to have a comprehensive Bill is that many items in the Bill effect each other, and you can't make change in increments when the change you make effects other areas of health care that are then not addressed.

Shep Smith is fired up...and I agree with him.

Why would we want to force insurers to cover those with pre-existing conditions that require ongoing management? That just forces them to take on a guaranteed loss.

#272 | POSTED BY HAGBARD_CELINE

That's why you also need to find a way to get a lot of those 30,000,000 uninsured covered as well. If insurance companies have a larger pool they can let in the sickly ones too without breaking their backs.

There is a lot of good in this bill, unfortunately there is not enough in certain areas, and too much ideology from the left, as well as probably a lot of hidden shit we'll either never know about or find out about long after its passed.

It will be funny to watch them cry when the political pendulum swings back and the republicans dismantle it with reconciliation.

That isn't really the way it works. It will be like the Bush tax cuts, the legislation will stay on the books, but after 10 years it will "sunset". Then if repubs are in power and the legislation is about to go off the books, dems will accuse repubs of letting millions go uninsured and raising the insurance rates for many more when in reality it would be the dems fault for enacting a law with a susnet provision.

The reason to have a comprehensive Bill is that many items in the Bill effect each other, and you can't make change in increments when the change you make effects other areas of health care that are then not addressed.
#275 | POSTED BY CORKY

And you can't just flat out bribe every senator like the Democrats did with Landrieu and Nelson... some of it has to be hidden.

"Why would we want to force insurers to cover those with pre-existing conditions that require ongoing management? That just forces them to take on a guaranteed loss."

Of course but then why do we buy insurance in the first place??? Your point just underscores the fact that for profit health care insurance is a poor system. This whole discussion today is so convoluted because it is an attempt to make sense of a system that makes no sense. We keep our system so complicated just so that insurance companies can profit and it is wrong and stupid.

The reason to have a comprehensive Bill is that many items in the Bill effect each other, and you can't make change in increments when the change you make effects other areas of health care that are then not addressed.

#275 | Posted by Corky at 2010-02-25 03:15 PM |

HAHAHA you mean you can't hide all the sneaky crap unless you make it so big the people can't find it???

wake up buddy your group of crazy libs is shrinking every time someone like you speaks for them.

That isn't really the way it works. It will be like the Bush tax cuts, the legislation will stay on the books, but after 10 years it will "sunset". Then if repubs are in power and the legislation is about to go off the books, dems will accuse repubs of letting millions go uninsured and raising the insurance rates for many more when in reality it would be the dems fault for enacting a law with a susnet provision.
#278 | POSTED BY TAXMAN

Interesting, I didn't know that. So the Republicans couldn't make changes to the healthcare system on their own through reconciliation votes if they were in power? Maybe not dismantle it or shut it down, but change things at least to a certain extent?

#279 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2010-02-25 03:18 PM | Reply | Flag: Watching sausage being made is scary! Especially since it's never been done this way before!

#281 see #283

But where will rich Canadians go when they get sick after this fucks up our system too?

#266 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Cap the costs not the procedures.

I support your bill Beachbuzz.

#273 | Posted by danni

Not sure we have EVER agreed on anything!

Danni Ask the politician why he came to America for surgery from our for profit system when the same service was available in Canada.
dumbass....

Joe Kennedy MA senate debate "Our country is almost 11 trillion dollars in debt and that can't continue."

Marsha-Martha Coakley MA Senate debate " I don't agree with those facts"

see she exposed her self, those are the facts. But libs don't like the truth. She is just like all the ones in that room today, ignore the facts, ignore the people, save ourselves.....

"Of course but then why do we buy insurance in the first place??? Your point just underscores the fact that for profit health care insurance is a poor system. This whole discussion today is so convoluted because it is an attempt to make sense of a system that makes no sense. We keep our system so complicated just so that insurance companies can profit and it is wrong and stupid."

His point reflects the fact if insurance companies go broke, nobody has insurance. If they are losing money because they are paying out more than what is being paid in, how long will they survive?

Cap the costs not the procedures.

The Procedures are free? They don't cost anything... wow I didn't know that.

And by capping costs what you really mean is stop paying the hospitals and their staff.

I can't wait till all of you have cheap quality health insurance, but none of you can see a doctor. that will make me laugh pretty hard.

Interesting

It's exactly what happened with the Bush tax cuts. Republicans couldn't get the votes in the Senate so they used reconciliation. This is the last year the tax cuts are effective because of the sunsetting rules which take effect as a result of the reconcilation process. If nothing is done, the tax code automatically reverts back to the day before the Bush tax cuts became law. So, while there is no estate tax this year, on Jan 1, 2011 the estate tax kicks back in at rates equal to those of 2001 and an exemption equal to that in effect in 2001. Now republicans are going to try to say democrats are raising taxes, when in reality it was a provision included by the drafters.

"That's why you also need to find a way to get a lot of those 30,000,000 uninsured covered as well. If insurance companies have a larger pool they can let in the sickly ones too without breaking their backs."
#277 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

That turns the concept of insurance on its head. They aren't in the business to take guaranteed losses. Insurance is supposed to be a gamble where neither party knows what's going to happen. Not so with pre-existing conditions.

"Of course but then why do we buy insurance in the first place??? Your point just underscores the fact that for profit health care insurance is a poor system...."
#280 | Posted by danni

Of course you know that was my point all along.

ROB_THE_A_HOLE AT 2010-02-25 03:24 PM | REPLY | FLAG: Thinks the whole "make up your own flag" is incredibly lame, but everyone seems to be doing it and I'm a slave to peer pressure

"Danni Ask the politician why he came to America for surgery from our for profit system when the same service was available in Canada."

I don't really care why because I am quite sure that if I were in his situation that surgeon would not be available to me anyway. If we had a single payer system surgeons could still choose to operate on a private fee for service basis if they chose, may types of doctors like plastic surgeons would have to but the majority of Americans could get the same or better care that they get right now for less money and there would be less waste so doctors and hospitals would still be well compensated.

That turns the concept of insurance on its head.

Isn't that the point of all this? That's been my take on Obama's ideology for HCR from day 1.

Blogging From The Back Of Barack's Bag... and Loving Every Gulp

#286 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Fuck you Robby Baby. We all knew it wouldn't take long for the "new Rob" to revert to the same old ad hominem slinging POS when your poor excuse for a brain couldn't generate a reasonable retort.

Boehner wouldn't have anything to say if he actually used reality or fact.

Whoops... didn't thank about that tiny consequence did you?

#269 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Of course, I did...But, since I know the Rethugs are lying (like when they say we ALREADY have the best Health Care in the World!) it will be an improvement over our current system and a step forward so I doubt that will happen and I would be willing to take that bet.

You know the Rethugs only want to make this Obama's Waterloo because THEY KNOW that if Obama succeeds here they will not get another chance at the WH for possibly DECADES.

#263 | Posted by kanrei at 2010-02-25 03:08 PM | Reply | Flag: More Blubberin! Some one call the Whaaaambulance, stat!

"I can't wait till all of you have cheap quality health insurance, but none of you can see a doctor. that will make me laugh pretty hard."

You're dreaming. Doctors will continue to treat patients if and when they are paid by Medicare....what??? They do it already???
Holy cow, Rob is full of crap!!!

His point reflects the fact if insurance companies go broke, nobody has insurance. If they are losing money because they are paying out more than what is being paid in, how long will they survive?
#288 | Posted by crispee_oc

That would only happen if everyone has pre-existing conditions, crisp.

"Cap the costs not the procedures."

How incredibly naive. Does any lib actually understand how a market place works? Capping costs, setting prices, government undercutting the private sector, forcing people to pay for insurance they don't need or want, none of these improves health care. Free competition among numerous providers and insurers is what increases the availability and reduces the cost of health care. Dental and vision insurance, typically gotten outside a typical corporate plan, has dropped in price over the last several years. Why? Because it' available outside of the governmentally regulated corporate insurance structure. It's either added on via a separate insurance provider, or purchased by the individual. The secret to cutting premiums is to get rid of the company-based insurance plans, and allow individuals to shop nation-side for the best rate and plan. That will spur insurance companies into competition for your business, thus increasing available options while reducing the cost to the individual. One can buy from Walmart or one can buy from Bloomingdale's. Either way the cost goes down.

Single payer PLEASE!

I'd rather get shitty government care than shitty corporate care. It would bring me piece of mind to know that people were no longer enriching themselves by denying care to others.

Fuck you Robby Baby. We all knew it wouldn't take long for the "new Rob" to revert to the same old ad hominem slinging POS when your poor excuse for a brain couldn't generate a reasonable retort.

#295 | POSTED BY CORKY

LOL... Reasonable retort to what? Your silly sausage making flag?

You wanna have a reasonable discussion knock off the silly made up flag shit and talk like a man.

Now dry your tears Petunia... this place is a thousand times better off with "Old" Robby style insults fuck face... no offense.

Holy cow, Rob is full of crap!!!

#299 | POSTED BY DANNI

Danni just make sure you have credit cards with high limits when you have to pay up front to see a doctor then work on getting your refund from your insurance provider.

MSNBC: Doctors launch cash-only practices

"Doctors will continue to treat patients if and when they are paid by Medicare....what??? They do it already???"

No, they don't. Doctor's are increasingly refusing to take Medicare and Medicaid patients because of the reduced reimbursement and red tape. There are fewer providers under the government plans, not more. Simple fact, feel free to actually do some research.

Can someone please explain the logic why DENTAL and VISION are not considered part of your general health anyway?

Its as arbitrary as saying, "well you've got coverage for your whole body, but not your feet or ears."

Is seeing clearly considered a luxury while hearing damage is a medical issue?

Is a cavity your own fault while an ulcer was caused by circumstances beyond your control?

BTW there are plenty of other sources for Cash only and so called concierge service doctors, but I knew you'd have to listen to MSNBC. Hmmmm... Kieth Olbermann... he's so dreamy!

Isn't that the point of all this? That's been my take on Obama's ideology for HCR from day 1.
#294 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Rob, I'm one of those universal single payer advocates. I find myself hard pressed to give even tepid support to the current legislation proposals but understand that they are put forth as a means to gain support from those who are ideologically opposed to single payer. Others argue its better than nothing. I don't know.

But to pretend this is segregation is simply laughable.

#236 | Posted by crispee_oc

I applaud Obama for holding this meeting. He's showing leadership. This is awesome.

I've only been able to watch a little of it so far and so far I'm impressed!!!

But from I've seen of it so far, Obama is really brave to allow Republicans talk!

Rob, I'm one of those universal single payer advocates.

What happens to all the people employed by private insurers under single payer, as well as the shareholders of those companies?

I get the logic of single payer, and see why people would want it, but seeing as it would likely destroy private insurance companies, what would happen to all those people and all that money?

Why would we want to force insurers to cover those with pre-existing conditions that require ongoing management? That just forces them to take on a guaranteed loss.

#272 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2010-02-25 03:15 PM | Reply | Flag: just callously condemned thousands if not millions to death

Yeah! The poor insurance companies! They only made 12 billion IN PROFITS last year. We wouldn't want to cut into that profit margin even if it does save a few American lives.

"Can someone please explain the logic why DENTAL and VISION are not considered part of your general health anyway?"

Because at some point a bean counter in an insurance company decided that such medicine is actually used on a regular basis, rather than people just waiting around for something to happen. The unexpected side effect was increased competition and lower costs. Still expensive, because people actually use it, but far less than it was. They've also discovered that prevention really does help in the long run, thus improved access for pediatrics in regular plans.

-this place is a thousand times better off with "Old" Robby style insults fuck face

lmao!

You just had your feelings hurt when it was pointed out to you that you were whining about backroom deals which are inherent in the process and have always been that way.... so you lash out with all you have... a mediocre mind and the imagination of a fence post.

The majority of people here don't think the place is better off with vulgar little pissants like you expressing your homophobia with third grade insults.

#272 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2010-02-25 03:15 PM | Reply | Flag: just callously condemned thousands if not millions to death
#311 | Posted by donnerboy

LOL. Get a clue, boy. I didn't expect that from you.

actually Danni less and less doctors treat patients without insurance, and do not extend payment plans.

Because the truth is that a doctor is more likely to be sued for malpractice by someone that is low income. And don't label that comment with some smear tactic you were taught, it was a legit study.

In the 1950s over 50% of care given in this country was pro bono. The fear of being sued is why that number has dropped so drastically. To approach this topic without Tort reform or Malpractice insurance reform is pointless.

1 million dollar settlement in a tort case per person come out to about a $27,000 payment once people like John Edwards are done billing for services rendered.

"I think the American people aren't always - pause - all that interested in procedures inside the senate..." WRONG YOU SNOTNOSED LITTLE POSER! WE ARE NOW!

The majority of people here don't think the place is better off with vulgar little pissants like you expressing your homophobia with third grade insults.

#313 | Posted by Corky

Fuck you, you gay third grade dropout. :)

I get the logic of single payer, and see why people would want it, but seeing as it would likely destroy private insurance companies, what would happen to all those people and all that money?
#310 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

That's a transitional unemployment issue that will sort itself out. All those companies who are no longer burdened with carrying insurance for their employees would have extra money to hire more people for starters.

-99% of posters would have you blowing the presidents cock, but I had you working the taint.

As anyone can plainly see, you won't be here long enough for them to have to worry about hearing you describe blowing yourself.

The majority of people here don't think the place is better off with vulgar little pissants like you expressing your homophobia with third grade insults.

#313 | Posted by Corky at 2010-02-25 03:39 PM | Reply

Fuck you Robby Baby. We all knew it wouldn't take long for the "new Rob" to revert to the same old ad hominem slinging POS when your poor excuse for a brain couldn't generate a reasonable retort.

#295 | POSTED BY CORKY

Anyone else drowning in the irony?

#272 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2010-02-25 03:15 PM | Reply | Flag: just callously condemned thousands if not millions to death
#311 | Posted by donnerboy

LOL. Get a clue, boy. I didn't expect that from you.

#314 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine

heh... I do get carried away...Hag I am very anti-insurance company.. I believe in and want the Public Option and I ultimately want single payer. I don't think we should be allowing the Insurance COs to make ANY profit on the misery or sickness of anyone.

I believe good Health Care IS a right and making a profit at the expense of someone who is sick or injured is not.

so i guess the libs are content with shutting down the insurance companies and dumping another 470,000 people to the unemployment lines... band-aid for a serious gash on the arm while letting the leg bleed out.

The best way to solve our problems is to push the Far right and Far Left aside and let the people who agree do what is best for all of America, not each do what's good for each of John Edwards Americas.

And no one has made it clear are all these CBO numbers based on the 50 states? What about the territories and 7 other states???

Good Health is not a right, it is a responsibility.

If people want good health care, they should focus on having good health in their lives to the extent that they can control it.

If they don't have any desire to take care of their health, it should not be on the government or any other private agency or citizen to supplement, against their will, their lack of responsibility

C'mon, 101.

I don't use the same homoerotic language that fascinates that particular asshole.

I just wish he's go ahead and sleep with with Wissy and get it out of his system.

I believe good Health Care IS a right and making a profit at the expense of someone who is sick or injured is not.
#322 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

I'd take it a step further and say that making a profit off the sick should be a crime. If there is a god, he's definitely shaking his head at that one.

ba-deep, ba-deep

so i guess the libs are content with shutting down the insurance companies and dumping another 470,000 people to the unemployment lines...

The Insurance Companies are content with condemning millions to death or poor health or bankruptcy so it is a small price to pay to correct this injustice.

"No, they don't. Doctor's are increasingly refusing to take Medicare and Medicaid patients because of the reduced reimbursement and red tape."

I've heard that reimbursement rates need to increase but that the red tape is far less with medicare than with private insurance. Either way those are details that need to be addressed, not a reason for or against single payer.

The best way to get the best care is to put as much of the care in your own hands as possible. Insurance is supposed to be for emergencies, not for long term, or ever so often care.

I think the whole concept of insurance is messed up today. The whole health care system. People expect too much to be handed to them with little or no effort on their own part.

I think they should have a giant personal responsibility forum with the two sides and all of the fat, lazy, careless American people sitting at home on their couch watching, as they would be too lazy to switch the channel to stop.

IN all other modern democracies it is ILLEGAL for an insurance company to profit on basic health care services.

I just wish he's go ahead and sleep with with Wissy and get it out of his system.

#325 | Posted by Corky

Hey, I put a funny face on my comment, sore head. You've got enough people pissed at you for being Obama's sport cup today. You don't need to include me.

Its time you Libs look into what the Catholic Charities have done over the years (private free market work) for people who loose coverage. The is not a pharma company out there that wont get you what is prescribed if you can't afford it. Also it is you personal responsibility to ask a doctor "how much does this cost? is there a cheaper option? I can't afford that is there anyone I can contact for assistance?"

If the libs get this legislation mark my words their next crusade will be to take down all the signs that say St. Judes, or Beth Isreal, or St. Mary's and those signs will be replaced with "The Hon. Nancy Pelosi Gov. Run Hospital" "Stenny Hoyer Emergency Room" "Charles Rangle Meat Wagon Parking Area"

it will never end if we don't expose them now for their assault on anything containing a description of "Profitable" or "Private" or God forbid "Religious"

As anyone can plainly see, you won't be here long enough for them to have to worry about hearing you describe blowing yourself.
#320 | POSTED BY CORKY

Ew does this mean you are flagging posts as offensive/abusive?

Really!? Dude, grow a pair.

The Republicans are demanding that we scrap the bill and start over and do what the people want.

OK, Obama ought to just say let's pass Medicare Part E. He and the Democrats would be reelected in landslides for the next decade, the economy would do much better, the American
people would get better health care, American business would be more competitive. What is the down side???
Someone above mentioned the unemployment which result from insurance company laying off employees, many could be hired by Medicare to administer the plans but even if all joined the rolls of the unemployed that would be fewer than joined in only one month late 2008.

I think we should give people incentives or benchmarks that they must meet before they get health care (outside of someone who wished to help them, or groups that desire to help them of their free will)so that companies or entities can see that they are willing to do what is necessary to help the process of their best health.

If they have a standard to meet and refuse not to meet it, or even attempt to meet it, then it is not the insurance companies, private or public entities that are sentencing them to death, it is their own choice, and they are witnesses against themselves.

#332

I can't help it if Asshole Rob has the hots for ya!

oh wait... :^)

The Democrats could pass reforms today that would have an impact before summer starts, IF they were serious about enacting the legislation on which both sides agree.

Why don't the Dems want that? Why doesn't Obama want that?

#272 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2010-02-25 03:15 PM | Reply | Flag: just callously condemned thousands if not millions to death

Yeah! The poor insurance companies! They only made 12 billion IN PROFITS last year. We wouldn't want to cut into that profit margin even if it does save a few American lives.

#311 | Posted by donnerboy

No, you'd rather I pay for it!

No thanks.

How about going back to state-run riskpools? We might still wind up paying for it, but it will be managed by the state.

Donner, there is a much better solution and I think Obama shows leadership by trying to get to that "Unique American Solution"

He is willing to allow the Republicans speak! For God's sake. He really wants to get to a solution and I applaud that.

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm impressed with Obama today! We are going to need weeks and weeks, not just one day to get through this.

"it will never end if we don't expose them now for their assault on anything containing a description of "Profitable" or "Private" or God forbid "Religious""

So funny I just wanted to make sure everyone had an opportunity to see it!

"it will never end if we don't expose them now for their assault on anything containing a description of "Profitable" or "Private" or God forbid "Religious""

So funny I just wanted to make sure everyone had an opportunity to see it!

#340 | Posted by danni at 2010-02-25 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag: Stupid is as Stupid does.

Hey, look at the bright side: the politicians at the health summit meeting seem to be getting along better than the pooptards here at the retort. Maybe there is some hope for meeting in the middle.

"The Democrats could pass reforms today that would have an impact before summer starts, IF they were serious about enacting the legislation on which both sides agree."

Get real, about the only thing the Republicans would go along with would be "tort reform" and that is not something most American want if they understand what it really means.

Tells us what Tort Reforms means in what the Republicans want to do Danni.

And why don't most Americans want it while you are at it.

Or buying insurance across state lines, or giving individual families health insurance tax deductions, providing allowances for household incomes and allow families to keep--in pocket--what they don't spend on insurance and health spending, etc.

Keep making excuses, though. 75% don't want this turd, but the Demmies think they know better, as usual.

IN all other modern democracies it is ILLEGAL for an insurance company to profit on basic health care services.

can you give some examples of what you are talking about?

what country? what services, etc.

IN regard to #346, also Danni, please explain to us all what these "Modern Democracies" are, and what makes them modern.

"Now republicans are going to try to say democrats are raising taxes"

Of course. Republicans aren't going to blame those who proposed the rise in taxes, or the people who wrote the rise in taxes, or the people who passed the rise without a single Democratic vote, or the guy who signed it all into law.

Because all of those folks have an (R) after their name.

And that would require The Party of Responsibility to actually take some responsibility.

OK, Obama ought to just say let's pass Medicare Part E. He and the Democrats would be reelected in landslides for the next decade, the economy would do much better, the American
people would get better health care, American business would be more competitive. What is the down side???

boy, somebody really looks at life through rose colored glasses don't they.

so simple huh, then why in the hell isn't that even a remote consideration on the table then?

oh, wait, I see....you are asking about the "downside" because you don't really know it is...you aren't being sarcastic.....you are dead serious.

nevermind.

Chris "Wall Street" Dodd is speaking now. Makes up for my not watching CNBC today.

#301 | Posted by SpokaneJim

I'm pretty sure the libs here would agree that I'm not a liberal. My point is health insurance should be a non-profit entity. No one should be getting rich because your grandmother needs a hip replaced at a price of $45,000.

RiR--regarding "Or buying insurance across state lines", the dems have indicated a willingness to accept this proposal so long as there are some basic minimum requirements that the insurers must abide to avoid insurers all forming/reforming in the state with the least restrictive regulatory framework (thus lowering the quality of insurance for everyone--the so-called "race to the bottom").

It makes sense---you can follow an individual state's regulatory framework and offer insurance in that state. If you follow the federal requirements, you can sell across state lines. This is exactly what the commerce clause of the US Constitution intended to deal with.

I don't know why the republicans disagree with this COMPRIMISE.

"Named for the Prussian Chancellor Otto von Bismarck, who invented the welfare state as part of the unification of Germany in the 19th century. Despite its European heritage, this system of providing health care would look fairly familiar to Americans. It uses an insurance system -- the insurers are called "sickness funds" -- usually financed jointly by employers and employees through payroll deduction.

Unlike the U.S. insurance industry, though, Bismarck-type health insurance plans have to cover everybody, and they don't make a profit. Doctors and hospitals tend to be private in Bismarck countries; Japan has more private hospitals than the U.S. Although this is a multi-payer model -- Germany has about 240 different funds -- tight regulation gives government much of the cost-control clout that the single-payer Beveridge Model provides.

The Bismarck model is found in Germany, of course, and France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Japan, Switzerland, and, to a degree, in Latin America."

www.pbs.org

And that would require The Party of Responsibility to actually take some responsibility.

If I could light a firecracker and place it in your hand, watch it go off in your hand, and then convince everybody watching that it was your fault because you let it blow up......then what the hell??

I don't know what I would enjoy more. The firecracker blowing up or the fact that everybody blamed you.

"I'm pretty sure the libs here would agree that I'm not a liberal. My point is health insurance should be a non-profit entity. No one should be getting rich because your grandmother needs a hip replaced at a price of $45,000."

Glad to agree with a conservative on this. At some point, I think, The US is going to recognize that economically no other type system makes sense.

Keep making excuses, though. 75% don't want this turd, but the Demmies think they know better, as usual

Much is made of the 2700 pages in the bill and that people don't (or won't) take time to read it. Assuming that the 75% number you quoted is correct, I suspect that they are forming an opinion based on what they have heard and not what they know. Hopefully many of that 75% is watching (or will watch) the health care summit and will therefore be able to make a more informed decision about the bill.

"What happens to all the people employed by private insurers under single payer, as well as the shareholders of those companies?
#310 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole"

Maybe they can real jobs where they actually produce something of value? Just a thought.

"What happens to all the people employed by private insurers under single payer, as well as the shareholders of those companies?
#310 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole"

What happens to all those buggy whip manufacturers if we allow horseless carriages?

I don't know why the republicans disagree with this COMPRIMISE.

The problem is that a vast majority of what the Dems are proposing is a pile of shit.

To take the senate bill, pile on to the most irresponsible aspects of it and use THAT as a starting point is simply absurd.

Obama's version of bi-partisanship is to ask the GOP to polish a turd.

It's stupid.

Obama really set himself up to fail today. A vast majority of the public opposes Obamacare - by upwards of a 20-point margin. He's given almost 30 speeches on the subject - I don't know how he felt things would be different with this little stunt.

The GOP needs to be willing to respectfully call him out when he lies - which he does often when it comes to this topic. The GOP needs to use numbers to illustrate how devastating this pile of shit is. The GOP then needs to pile on with a bit of rhetoric - honestly, a 2000+ page piece of legislation is borderline criminal. The GOP then needs to offer up some common-sense measures and combine them into a semblance of a package. I work nights and just woke up from my morning slumber so I am missing this little dog-and-pony show. Having said that, this is an uphill battle for Obama and the Dems considering their starting point is a pile of shit that nobody wants. If the GOP performs halfway decent today, they will 'win' this debate.

If the Dems ram this shit through via reconciliation all hell will break loose politically. It's bad enough to try and flout the will of the people, but to use parlimentary tricks to do it????

Do the math.

What happens to all those buggy whip manufacturers if we allow horseless carriages?

#358 | Posted by nullifidian

I'm sure you'll tink of something, Nulli

What happens to all those buggy whip manufacturers if we allow horseless carriages?

#358 | Posted by nullifidian

Apples and oranges.

Buggies became obsolete in the private sector as a result of a superior product becoming avaialable.

That is vastly different than government making an arbitrary decision that they (who think they know best) don't like a certain product or service and will thererfore use coersion at gunpoint to force said product or service out of business.

What happens to all those buggy whip manufacturers if we allow horseless carriages?

#358 | Posted by nullifidian

They can start up a S&M website and never miss a beat.

"I'm sure you'll tink of something, Nulli"

You got her phone number?

Jeff--you do realize what 1 'page' of legislation looks like, right? 5 inch margins, large type and double spaced. If you were to take the 2000 pages and made it into what people regularly work with, it is between 300-400 pages. And with all of the jump-sites and references--that isn't really that bad. Legal documents are complicated--hell, just modifying a loan document for a few terms can result in a 7-8 page modification agreement.

And while there is a lot of things in this bill that i find offensive (especiallly the giveaways to buy votes), there is a lot of good in this bill. The fundamental concepts are fine. It is the extra shit that is so bad. I would like them to take the fundamental concepts, work in some modified republican concpets, cut the bullshit and start from there. But you know the right won't even go for that. They are 100% vested in killing this bill. That is their endgame. If that is how their going to play their cards--then the dems are going to use reconcillation---just like the republicans did to ram through bush's tax cuts. Just like the republicans have done time and time again. Even the the healthcare insurance program COBRA was passed through reconcillation. The political game makes good legislation impossible.

They are 100% vested in killing this bill.

Look at the poll numbers.

Not only is it smart politically, but they are actually representing the will of the people who elected them into office by doing so.

the dems are going to use reconcillation---just like the republicans did to ram through bush's tax cuts.

The tax-cuts were simple changes in rates. That's it. This legislation is a massive change to 1/6 of our economy; it will fundamentally change the way in which people receive healthcare. Issues like this were meant to be debated.

The political game makes good legislation impossible.

No it doesn't. If the Dems were actually interested in true bi-partisanship they could get a solid piece of legislation passed. Bag on No Child Left behind all you want - but it was a significant piece of legislation that was passed with true bi-partisan support. Hell, Sen. Kennedy authored a significant portion of that bill.

#361 | Posted by JeffJ

You missed the point completely. There may or may not be good reasons to oppose single-payer, but potential job losses for insurance salesmen isn't one of them.

...also, the Bush tax cuts were far more popular than this turd.

You got her phone number?

#363 | Posted by nullifidian


1-800-Dom-trix...lol!

(not got a clue...try it and see who answers....)

There may or may not be good reasons to oppose single-payer, but potential job losses for insurance salesmen isn't one of them.

You are correct - I did miss the point.

That agrument makes sense.

Now shut the fuck up you commie pinko fag!


Get real, about the only thing the Republicans would go along with would be "tort reform" and that is not something most American want if they understand what it really means.

#343 | Posted by danni
.

Danni, you keep saying that.

I don't think it means what you think it means.

Should people who smoke pay more? What about illegal aliens? How about gay men? Diabetics? If it turns out that a diabetic is choking down four Twinkies a day, should his government premiums go up? How about a guy who refuses to exercise, even though his doctors tell him to? Should the government be able to deny someone a procedure who is a heavy drinker, in favor of a Mormon, who does not?

A whole lot in this Democratic bill is up to the Secretary of Health and Human Services. If you think there's a firestorm over abortion, just wait until money gets tight, and they start performing body fat index tests. Or using lifestyle questionnaires not just to determine how to treat you, but WHETHER to treat you.

Be very careful when you assume that writing a bad bill is better than none at all.

Just for the record, I just made that number up...little did I know it must be an actual number...too funny.

Nancy Pelosi's talking now. I wonder how much her lunch cost, and whether she paid for it.

There may or may not be good reasons to oppose single-payer, but potential job losses for insurance salesmen isn't one of them.

he's right.

most of us are independently wealthy anyway.

"Just for the record, I just made that number up...little did I know it must be an actual number...too funny."

Too bad. She looks like a girl you could have a cracking good time with.

What happens to all those buggy whip manufacturers if we allow horseless carriages?

#358 | Posted by nullifidian

LOL! Witty!

Too bad you're not smart enough to realize that the auto industry is NOT a large Socialist Government!

If you take away to the regulation and allow competition, then no one loses their job, the insurance company executives make much less and move on to greener pastures, and everyone has cheaper insurance.

Think, Forest, THICK!!!

THICK...

LOL!!!!

"Nancy Pelosi's talking now. I wonder how much her lunch cost, and whether she paid for it."

Probably less than the botox injections she gets on each tax-payer funded military flight she takes to and from home.

"If the Dems ram this shit through via reconciliation all hell will break loose politically.
#359 | Posted by JeffJ"

Oh no! Say it ain't so! You mean Republicans might just become obstructionist, and will stop cooperating even on issues where they agree with the other side? Oh whatever will we do?

Please, Jeff.

I applaud Obama for the leadership and MATURITY he has shown in hosting this summit. Can you imagine Bush/Cheney doing something like this? Nope - it was "we are the majority so sit down and shut the f*** up".

I've seen a number of responses on here alluding to this being "theatre" and that it's gonna be "rammed down our throats anyway".... if this is true, then WHY did Obama do this today? Why invite the Repubs to present their ideas and televise it LIVE on NATIONAL TV? Why risk making himself look bad?

If Obama is SO wrong on this issue, and the Repubs are SO right, why did the Repubs object so much to this? You'd think they would have been licking their chops at this opportunity...no?

We all know the truth - the Republicans have NO desire to help this country, their ONLY purpose is to see Obama fail. This makes me think of McCain's slogan "Country First" and makes me wanna PUKE.

Bottom line - agree or disagree with the HC bill you would have to be consumed with irrational hatred to not have gained SOME respect for Obama as a leader.

EVERYTHING you write is PROOF that you have no answer for anything and no understanding of WTF you are typing with one hand while pulling dingleberrys with the other.

Why the nice library lady dosn't mace you at least twice a day is beyond me.

#200 | Posted by axe at 2010

bullshit..
and here is an example of me being up to date
today at 1;03 PM CST on ktrh houston 740
liberal dem gene green..so liberal that even though the houston ship channel is in his district he still voted to lose thousands of jobs there when he said yes to cap and tax..
talking about TORT REFORM..
and I...AHEM...QUOTE..
"federalization of tort reform could affect the things that we got done 7 years ago." END quote

let me translate that for you..

TORT reform in texas works...and if the feds do it they will FuCK it up......

and so dont tell me I dont have an answer or understand whats happening here.

Eddie,
STFU and get your man some dinner on the table, woman.
You make Celesary seem only mildly retarded.

Probably less than the botox injections she gets on each tax-payer funded military flight she takes to and from home.

#379 | Posted by SpokaneJim at 2010-02-25 05:02 PM | Reply

Who cares! I'd be on her rack like Danni on...well, Pelosi's rack.

BLT's last words,

"Don't taze me, ho!"

#207 | Posted by Zatoichi at

you have me confused with the OTHER loudmouth..

and fox poll says that 95% of the viewers did not have thier opinions changed by this farce. I would think that cnn viewers would come up with about the same total.

"What happens to all the people employed by private insurers under single payer, as well as the shareholders of those companies?
#310 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole"

There will still be a need for auto, life, homeowners, business etc...

the only one celisary makes to look more "FUCKING RETARDED" is someone with didgets for a name.

"Look at the poll numbers.

Not only is it smart politically, but they are actually representing the will of the people who elected them into office by doing so."

People actually think this bill amounts to a "government takeover"--which couldn't be further from the truth. People don't even understand what is in this bill--especially when the right go on and on about abortion or death panels or taking over health care or comparing it to Canada or England. They've muddied the waters. It is absurd. On top of that, polls show that people favor the public option. Polls also say they trust dems more than repubs to fix healthcare. So depending on what poll you're looking at--you can use it to pump your partisan view.

"The tax-cuts were simple changes in rates. That's it. This legislation is a massive change to 1/6 of our economy; it will fundamentally change the way in which people receive healthcare. Issues like this were meant to be debated."

sCHIP, 1996 overhaul of Welfare, Medicare Advantage, and COBRA were all healthcare bills (except the welfare bill) that made sweeping, fundamental changes and done via RECONCILLATION.

"No it doesn't. If the Dems were actually interested in true bi-partisanship they could get a solid piece of legislation passed."

With the exception of Afghanistan (which some still bitched about), there hasn't been one ounce of bipartisanship coming from teh right. Tons still asserted he wasn't american, even more didn't want him to talk to school kids, they were thrilled when Obama didn't get the Olympics---i mean come on now---they've been against him every step of the way. It is worse than what we saw with Clinton. And no--the democratic leadership didn't help matters. I blame both--but there was nothing the dems could have done on their own to change this culture. The political well is very much poisoned.

So you agree the current legislation will save $100 billion a year.

#268 | Posted by moder8 at 2010-02-25 03:11 PM

Assuming Democrats actually stick to cutting Medicare. How does that work? Do they cut reimbursement rates? Cap them? Do you think they will actually stick to that?


Eddie,
STFU and get your man some dinner on the table, woman.
You make Celesary seem only mildly retarded.

#383 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2010-02-25 05:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'll bet you're pretty sore 101.

LOL!!!

well the only time I can give any credit to barry is when he brought it up towards the end...talked about having the courage to cut entitlements or it would do what repubicans say it would..
but who does he think he's kidding with that?

but that still didnt remove him showing what an arrogant ass he is
when mcconnel talked about how much time was used.

"Im the president"

well...la di fuckin da!


the only one celisary makes to look more "FUCKING RETARDED" is someone with didgets for a name.

#387 | Posted by afkabl2

I think that 101 is a flaiming Liberal who's posing as an ubber Neocon.

What do you think?

I also think he's about 24 years old. He's not very bright.

Shit for Brains,

The 'medicare cuts' are CUTS IN FRAUD AND WASTE, not cuts to legitimate providers or cuts in benefits to seniors.

I know this pops a big LIE that you shills are continually trying to sell, but that is all it is: Another fucking lie the insurance companies are paying the Republicans to tell their sheep and terrorize the senior citizens.

Why do Republicans hate old people?

Bibble,

The I'm the president line was explaining that Mcconnel counted Obama's time against the Dems.

As moderator, it is not usual to have his time counted against either side.

But you knew that!! You aren't that stupid, are you?

Polls also say they trust dems more than repubs to fix healthcare.

#388 | Posted by __b__

Yes, because Democrats keep say that "Republicans are against Health Care"

Against Health Care.

Democrats, you know the LEADERS in Washington are so partisan that they are saying that

Republicans are against HEALTH CARE!

You're right. It's BULLSHIT!

but there was nothing the dems could have done on their own to change this culture

I certainly agree that the Republicans are a huge part of the problem. Having said that, the Dems have done everything in their power to worsen the situation.

because they are just too costly to have around and they should just take a pill for that hip replacement instead..
OOPS>.sorry...that last was something OBAMA SAID...and said it OUT LOUD...

and what you said doesnt prove anything of the sort.

and fox poll says that 95% of the viewers did not have thier opinions changed by this farce. I would think that cnn viewers would come up with about the same total.

#385 | POSTED BY AFKABL2

Can we get a NO QUOTING FOX POLL policy started around here?

We can put it along side the rules for NO QUOTING DOORKNOB POLLS and NO QUOTING WWE WRESTLER POLLS.

fox viewers wont change their minds until fox tells them to.
if obama wants to get fox viewers to support health care reform, he should tell everyone he's against it.

Why do Republicans hate old people?

#393 | Posted by axe

Because Axe is a moron? I don't know...

Cut Fraud and Waste

LOL!!!!

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Do you know how long there's been fraud and waste in Medicare? How old is Medicare?

You can say you're going to do something, but it can't be done.

Do you think I'm going to trust you after telling me a lie like that?

I just know I watched most of the last half and it was more than apparent that he was the only one in the room that could talk unfettered until he was finished.

AND all anyone needed to see was at 2:30 CST..when he was asked to start over with both sides participating. I knew he wasnt going to have any part of that BECAUSE...

POLITICO reported just this afternoon that dems plan to begin the reconcilation process first thing monday.

and if true it proves dems didnt give a sack of shit about this farce unless it was to show transparency, to be able to say...EWEEE we tried to get the gopers to vote with us
AND to call them the party of NO

HOWEVER>..look back at all of the things brought up by the gop TODAY..EACH AND EVERYTIME what did dems say??????

NO............

Why do Republicans hate old people?

because they are worthless, gramps.

why wouldnt barry say...sure...in the interest of all of those people without that have written letters that dems have read today.

lets start over and do it where we can all agree

BUT NO he didnt do that because his RAdical leftwing MASTERS wont allow him to do such a thing

The 'medicare cuts' are CUTS IN FRAUD AND WASTE, not cuts to legitimate providers or cuts in benefits to seniors.

#393 | Posted by axe at 2010-02-25 05:21 PM

Oops, I didn't say anything about slashing benefits to seniors. Not sure why you're lying.

B,

Let me cite one example - the proposed Medicare cuts.

In the past, when the GOP was in power, they suggested slowing the rate of growth for the program and were slammed by the Dems. Now, the Dem bill (an aspect of the bill that I actually agree with) proposes massive cuts and the GOP all-of-a-sudden has the warm-fuzzies about Medicare. The hypocrisy is rank on both sides on this one. However, I think the Dems screwed themselves when they proclaimed that they would enact such massive cuts AND, simultaneously, improve the overall quality of the program. That is simply impossible. Politics at its worst. If Obama and the Dems articulated the looming disaster that is Medicare as it currently exists and had been adult-like in their presentation of needed cuts (I think raising the eligibility age is crucial) in a fiscally-responsible manner - they would have painted the GOP in the corner. Instead, they tried to act as if they were magicians and the GOP pounced for political gain.

Screw these assholes.

Why are honest politicians like Feingold, McCain, Levin et al such a rarity?

speak

I really believe if you will read that post of mine a little SLOWER. you will see that I also mentioned that a poll at cnn would probably have the same result..maybe I should have said except from the other side....

Democrats, you know the LEADERS in Washington are so partisan that they are saying that

Republicans are against HEALTH CARE!

You're right. It's BULLSHIT!

#395 | Posted by Eddie

There is a reason they say that Eddie... because the REthugs let slip their true intentions a while back...

"I can almost guarantee you this thing won't pass before August, and if we can hold it back until we go home for a month's break in August," members of Congress will hear from "outraged" constituents, South Carolina Senator Jim DeMint said on the call, which was organized by the group Conservatives for Patients Rights....

"If we're able to stop Obama on this it will be his Waterloo. It will break him," he said.

Can we get a NO QUOTING FOX POLL policy started around here?

#398 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

That would be nice.

"Eddie,
STFU and get your man some dinner on the table, woman.
You make Celesary seem only mildly retarded.
#383 | Posted by 101Chairborne"

Hey 101 - don't you realize? I'm a conservative! Just like you! (*sniff, sniff*)

Eddie

JEFF post 404..
that first line says it all. gop tried to just talk about it and these sanctamonious bastards would have nothing of it.
but thats 2nd only to the clips of these hypocritical assholes slamming the shit out of NUCLEAR OPTION when the shoe was on that pesky other foot.
biden even prayed to GOd that it didnt happen

"reconciliation underminds the will of the people."

2005...senator barak obama

Asked on Monday whether President Barack Obama's plan for health care reform represented socialism, RNC Chairman Michael Steele didn't waste words.

"Yes," he declared, "next question."

In a speech that even he admitted was meant to be more about politics than policy, Steele issued a whole host of similar accusations, with the type of rhetorical flourishes for which he is well known. At the end of the address he was asked by the Huffington Post whether he agreed with Sen. Jim DeMint's (R-S.C.) assessment that health care reform could be Obama's Waterloo -- a chance for the Republican Party to break the president politically. "I think that's a good way to put it," he responded.

www.huffingtonpost.com

"because they are worthless, gramps.
#401 | Posted by eberly"

What the fuck, Ebs? I thought we were friends!

Vernon

p.s. Meet me at the park bench after dinner. I want to discuss this with you. I'll be there by 4:30.

*sniff, sniff* Eddie

#408 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2010-02-25 05:33 PM

Oh.

If we're able to stop Obama on this it will be his Waterloo. It will break him," he said.

#406 | Posted by donnerboy

donner...this post was as much of a talking point as they all had most of the day.

just as rush's comment was turned into something it wasnt, so to is this.

I know that nuance just gets in the way of partisanship but what it means is that to save the republic, obama agenda must be stopped.

they've been against him every step of the way.

Obama floated into office with massive approval-ratings. He misread his mandate and over-stepped tremendously. He campaigned (in the general) as a pragmatic centrist but has governed, thus far, as a corrupt, Chicago-machine idealogue.

The best thing that can happen to him is a massive GOP takeover of congress in '10 and then a Clinton-esque pivot toward the middle. Clinton was very successful doing this and he was an absolute lout. Obama has one thing going for him that Clinton never had - he is an admirable husband (at least so far) and is a dedicated family-man. If he truly moves to center and the ecnomy shows noticeable recovery in 2011, Obama could very easily be a 2-term president.

What the fuck, Ebs? I thought we were friends!

Vernon

p.s. Meet me at the park bench after dinner. I want to discuss this with you. I'll be there by 4:30.

#411 | Posted by mOntecOre at

now I know that you young punks and douchebags wont get it, but take it from me.

WHATS THAT???

SPEAK UP.........

this is funny...and you have to know the eating habits of the seasoned citizens to get it...

EH????

AND I wont post it because it might be against rcade's advertizers or something but I have an ad that some of you old boys REALLY Need to look at and order,.
its an ad for

colon cleansing....

Monte,

LOL

There is a reason they say that Eddie... because the REthugs let slip their true intentions a while back...

it's no secret that the repubs have their own political reasons for trying to kill it.

but at the end of the day you have to admit the bill is still a piece of shit.

save your outrage for the republicans when they actually stand in the way of a good bill.

Thanks, BLT.

#406 | Posted by donnerboy

We are waaaay past August, Skippy.

All Republicans are doing up until now since the Democrats would not let them in is to give the Democrats enough rope to hang themselves.

Also, you missed the "Republicans are against Health Care..."

I'll say it slower so you don't miss it this time.

The Democrat leaders are wanting you to hear their words: Republicans want to take away your access to health care.

This is a lie!

They are smart and it almost worked.

But a lie is a lie...

AND I wont post it because it might be against rcade's advertizers or something but I have an ad that some of you old boys REALLY Need to look at and order,.
its an ad for

colon cleansing....

#416 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2010-02-25 05:40 PM

I think it's against RCade's advertisement policy to promote your gay escort service here.

I know that nuance just gets in the way of partisanship but what it means is that to save the republic, obama agenda must be stopped.

#413 | Posted by afkabl2

This is so true.

I hope Obama fails. I'm getting my wish.

save your outrage for the republicans when they actually stand in the way of a good bill.

#417 | Posted by eberly

I give Monte points for trying though.

#419 | Posted by Eddie

Like the 'government takeover of healthcare' Obama so aptly exposed as total BS at the end of the summit?

I hope Obama fails. I'm getting my wish.

#421 | Posted by Eddie

That's been the wish of the right since he was elected. What patriots!

I know that nuance just gets in the way of partisanship but what it means is that to save the republic, obama agenda must be stopped.

#413 | Posted by afkabl2

I can see if you represent the thought process of the minority party then there is only one answer to this stand off.

Reconciliation.

"Why do Republicans hate old people?"

That would seem unlikely. Did you see the last Republican convention? Nothing but old white whales.


"Eddie,
STFU and get your man some dinner on the table, woman.
You make Celesary seem only mildly retarded.
#383 | Posted by 101Chairborne"

Hey 101 - don't you realize? I'm a conservative! Just like you! (*sniff, sniff*)

Eddie

#408 | Posted by mOntecOre

Monte,

Why is it that you Libs can't see that 101 is a flaiming Lib posing as a neocon!

You can't tell?

That's been the wish of the right since he was elected. What patriots!

#424 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010-02-25 05:47 PM

Not that I agree with Eddie, but if you think that a president's agenda is bad for the country, then yes it is plenty patriotic to hope he fails to pass that agenda.

The Democrat leaders are wanting you to hear their words: Republicans want to take away your access to health care.

This is a lie!

It is also not even close to reality.

Got any links to any Democratic Leader that have actually said this?


"Why do Republicans hate old people?"

That would seem unlikely. Did you see the last Republican convention? Nothing but old white whales.

#426 | Posted by nullifidian

Null, you're not a white guy are you?

The way you write, you have a little hate for whites.

Ok...all of you that are cracking on the republicans..I have but ONE question.

IF Obama wanted to this to be "bi-partisan" why is his "starting point" a 2000 page bill that was written in secret by Harry Reids staff - little input by other dems and NO input by the Rep?

What great political theatre today! The conservative voice was finally given a platform that all the media will have to cover. Another bad move by the dems.

Not that I agree with Eddie, but if you think that a president's agenda is bad for the country, then yes it is plenty patriotic to hope he fails to pass that agenda.

#428 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

So when the the Democrats wanted Bush to fail in his agena THEY were with unpatriotic but now that the Republicans want Obama to fail THEY are suddenly patriots?

How convenient that must for you.

LoD

The right wing talking heads were hoping for Obama's failure before he was even sworn into office let alone a single piece of legislation proposed.

I think it's against RCade's advertisement policy to promote your gay escort service here.

#420 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at

hey with taxes going through the roof if this shit passes, you had better get your scratch where you can

#431 | Posted by foshaffer

Obama's bill follows over a year of other bills and includes many Republican ideas, as evidenced today.

IF Obama wanted to this to be "bi-partisan" why is his "starting point" a 2000 page bill that was written in secret by Harry Reids staff - little input by other dems and NO input by the Rep?

#431 | Posted by foshaffer

They couldn't find the 2000 page bill written by Republicans?

Just guessing.

Null, you're not a white guy are you?

The way you write, you have a little hate for whites.

#430 | Posted by Eddie

I've suspected it for some time but that's alright; once in awhile Null gets something right.

So when the the Democrats wanted Bush to fail in his agena THEY were with unpatriotic but now that the Republicans want Obama to fail THEY are suddenly patriots?

How convenient that must for you.

#433 | Posted by donnerboy at 2010-02-25 05:54 PM

Ah yes, even though have taken a stance on health care more similar to Democrats', I am clearly trying to find a convenient way for Republicans to be patriotic. That's it.

Or you just have a lack of reading comprehension.


I hope Obama fails. I'm getting my wish.

#421 | Posted by Eddie

That's been the wish of the right since he was elected. What patriots!

#424 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Indeed it's patriotic!

Why would I want something bad for America? It's patriotic to protect your country, right?

Obama MUST fail!

Now, I like Obama. He's got great leadership skills and by-god people listen to him. If only he would come up with ideas that are "uniquely American". You know, something that is within the American spirit, American culture. SHIT Give me something, a sign!!!

even though I have*

Like the 'government takeover of healthcare' Obama so aptly exposed as total BS at the end of the summit?

#423 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY at 2010

yeah bro
he said this yesterday too..
so lets see..

govt controls Gm
govt tells banks and such what they can pay employees
govt WANTS to take over 1/5th of economy called health care
govt wants you to call in people who email bad shit about them
govt controls EPA which is set to tell you where you can set your thermostat and
govt WANTS to keep track of the miles you drive
and on and on

but hey if you think this isnt happening..well party on bart....


Ok...all of you that are cracking on the republicans..I have but ONE question.

IF Obama wanted to this to be "bi-partisan" why is his "starting point" a 2000 page bill that was written in secret by Harry Reids staff - little input by other dems and NO input by the Rep?

#431 | Posted by foshaffer

Good question.

Not one single Lib will answer you.

AFKABL2

You, who collect a 'socialist' pension (yes, pensions were a Democrat idea and protection of pension plans legislated by Democrats), Social Security (proposed and enacted by Democrats despite the GOP), and are on 'government run health care' - Medicare (Proposed and enacted by Democrats) - are ranting - (from a PUBLIC LIBRARY no less ... a 'socialist idea') against the rest of us being able to get high quality, affordable health care like YOU get?

How ironic

Reconciliation.

#425 | Posted by donnerboy at

as I asked yesterday

PLEASE do this

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE...only one problem..wont work unless more than several dems in house forfit their office because it will signal the gop takeover of the house and maybe the senate.

so PLEASE TRY IT...
BUT I counted three dems on fox this afternoon who said they would NOT vote for the senate bill.

of course thats BEFORE the chicago BALLET DANCER and his syndicate "GET" to them

#431 | Posted by foshaffer

Obama's bill follows over a year of other bills and includes many Republican ideas, as evidenced today.

#436 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

I actually think something can now get done the proper way--if dems force their original healthcare ideas down America's throat, you can say good-bye to the dems monopoly in Nov. Of course, the closer we get to Nov. the less chance of a bill---after Nov., we might get real healthcare reform that'll require all parties (including the ABA) to swallow hard.

Good question.

Not one single Lib will answer you.

#443 | Posted by Eddie

I did. It's total bullshit. Obama's plan encompasses many GOP ideas and comes after a year of other bills.

The GOP had every opportunity to address the health care crisis, but never did.

I've suspected it for some time but that's alright; once in awhile Null gets something right.

#438 | Posted by matsop

Hey Null, it's ok. My son is a brown guy (his mom is Iranian) and the only reason he tolerates whites is because his dad and best friend is white.

AFKABL2

You, who collect a 'socialist' pension (yes, pensions were a Democrat idea and protection of pension plans legislated by Democrats), Social Security (proposed and enacted by Democrats despite the GOP), and are on 'government run health care' - Medicare (Proposed and enacted by Democrats) - are ranting - (from a PUBLIC LIBRARY no less ... a 'socialist idea') against the rest of us being able to get high quality, affordable health care like YOU get?

How ironic

AU...that nonsense is getting really tiresome..

im not on any govt health care I pay out the wazzo every month and for sure will keep it up to date as its time for my postrate exam and my LADY doctor is so fine looking....

but I digress...

will never collect one penny of social security because I didnt put in enough like I did the other which was INVESTED in oil and gas by the texas teacher retirement system...
call it whatever you want. I earned it and im spending every cent
STARTING RIGHT NOW>.
post time in an hour..

AND OUT

Yo Danni,

Id put that horrible trend of job cutting from Nov. 08 to Jan 09 squarely on two things.

1st thing : about 30% Bush policies
2nd thing: Private sector forecasting about the future (the private sector is good at looking ahead and judging the climate) 70% on the election of Obama

people cut jobs so drastically because they knew what was ahead by a Dem. being elected.

That 470,000 is nothing compared to the 500,000 that was just reported for last month....

people like you infect the arena for real progress. You hate individuals and groups that exercise their constitutional rights.

ever seen the movie THX1138 anyone??? I have a feeling Corky and Danni would love to live in a society like that.....

Who's going to cover the 7 Mystery states??? I want answers!! I want coverage for all 57 states!!!

Corky+Danni= Veruca Salt

AND OUT
#450 | Posted by afkabl2

If I had a dime for every time you didn't keep that promise....

#428 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE

So when the the Democrats wanted Bush to fail in his agena THEY were with unpatriotic but now that the Republicans want Obama to fail THEY are suddenly patriots?

How convenient that must for you.

#433 | Posted by donnerboy

I agree with you! I would not have agreed with you in 2004, but I would have a few years later when Conservatives were turning on him. That's the birth of the Tea Party (if you want to call it that).

Bush's agenda became apparent after the invasion of Iraq. I supported it for a while, but then backed off.

My wife is from Iran so I've been following that for a while. We both hated Saddam, she far more than I. But then when the war dragged on and people kept dying... You know the story.

But why did you guys have to swing so far to the Left? GEEZZZ!

RIGHTOFSPECTRUM you don't have your facts even close to right, perhaps you'd like to go check your numbers and repost. You can have as many tries as you want, I'll let you know when you actually get something right. Keep trying, I know it is hard but people respect you for trying.

"But then when the war dragged on and people kept dying... You know the story."

Not surprisingly you didn't expect that. Others of us did. Some of us remembered Vietnam and realized what we were letting ourselves in for by invading and occupying.

Danni when you learn to see what's fact, what's sarcastic, what's exaggeration, and what's opinion

lets go have a beer!!

online.wsj.com

I know theres a lot of facts and numbers there Danni but try to learn the difference between Facts and Fantasmagorical Ideology.

search Jobless claims article was printed Today!!!

Not surprisingly you didn't expect that. Others of us did. Some of us remembered Vietnam and realized what we were letting ourselves in for by invading and occupying.

#455 | Posted by danni

truthfully, I thought it would last less than a year. I was foolish.

That's a transitional unemployment issue that will sort itself out. All those companies who are no longer burdened with carrying insurance for their employees would have extra money to hire more people for starters.

#319 | POSTED BY HAGBARD_CELINE

It just doesn't seem right that the government would just swoop in and put that many people out of business.

Then I have to point out that on one hand people are saying that Corporations are just full of greedy bastards who would sell out their own mothers for a dime, but here you are saying that instead of pocketing the money they save from a single payer system they'll hire more people? Further, companies hire when there is work to be done, not because they have extra cash lying around. Not to mention that a lot of these instant unemployed are trained for work in the health insurance industry.

Some of us remembered Vietnam and realized what we were letting ourselves in for by invading and occupying.

#455 | Posted by danni

Many of them who approved for it where elected by your ilk. Pesky details I know. I think one of them is the current V.P., not?

Obama's bill follows over a year of other bills and includes many Republican ideas, as evidenced today.

#436 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

THAT is not an answer. Yes it MAY contain SOME GOP ideas...but they were NEVER debated by the congress. Maybe 100 pages of the 2000 were ideas TAKEN in by the DEMS. Harry took the Congressional bill (which ALSO did not include ANY GOP input)- tweeked it to get votes and in the process did back office deals to everyone and his dog.

Obama takes the SAME bill and removes one or two things and puts in a couple. IT IS STILL an undebated bill.

It was a bill - not put together to address health care costs in ANY logical way...it was put together to try and get all the DEMS to pass it.

It's funding is a gimick - we go an EXTRA Trillion in debt 5 years after it is put in place (because the impact of the taxes collected in the first 4 years run out)

The ECOMOMY is collapsing around us - housing starts are down, unemployment is back UP, Greece is in trouble - so is Spain. California nad 10 other states are on the brink of default. He is wasting money like it is water. OIL, GAS and FOOD costs are rising. Inflation is out our doorstep Iran is gaining Nuclear weapons. And OBAMA (who said he was "laser focused" on the economy) takes our time with THIS?!?!

You are all Americans - you have a brain ( well - maybe not Nutcase) you may have a bent toward 'the government should take care of me" liberalism...but EVEN you have to see what a horrible F-UP he is.

I think the discussion today was largely useless. I'm beginning to think that the only way this is ever going to be done is still going to be a process over several years.

The Dems should just let the pubbies write a bill and pass it. Sometimes a thing has to be truly wrecked before any real resolve to fix it exists. Let the pubbies completely trash it with the ideas their corporate handlers have paid them to parrot. Maybe in 10 more years, when the premiums and med bills are truly so oppressive that only a very few can afford them, then the American people will finally be ready for reform.

There may or may not be good reasons to oppose single-payer, but potential job losses for insurance salesmen isn't one of them.

#366 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

You think that's all that would be employed by a company like Blue Cross?

How about all their accountants, Human Resources staff, customer service, IT staff, cleaning staff, etc.

How about all the buildings that are leasing space these companies? More foreclosures?

How about the telecom and utilities companies and all the other companies providing services to every insurance companies sites? Now they lose that revenue and they have to let people go.

Nah, you're right... its more fun just to think only evil insurance salesmen and rich fatcat bigwigs will lose their jobs.

I've heard clips of this circus today. They better go all in and proceed with reconciliation and start packing their bags. BTW, Obama could have gotten top dollar from Mr. Barnum and Mr. Baily.

The GOP had every opportunity to address the health care crisis, but never did.

#447 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

exactly! Now that Obama is forcing them to address the issue they suddenly have all kinds of Plans.

But, notice any Plan they do put forward still involves keeping the Insurance Companies in control of your health care cause God forbid we take away their ability to profit on our misery.

But, notice any Plan they do put forward still involves keeping the Insurance Companies in control of your health care cause God forbid we take away their ability to profit on our misery.
#466 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

How is it better to take power from the insurance companies and transfer it to the federal government?

Nobody has put forth a plan that returns the power to the doctor, so why should anyone support this shit?

Devil you know, better than the one you don't.

#464 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole at 2010-02-25 06:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Fine. I'll reword that statement:

There may or may not be good reasons to oppose single-payer, but potential job losses for insurance industry employees isn't one of them.

Happy?

There may or may not be good reasons to oppose single-payer, but potential job losses for insurance industry employees isn't one of them.
Happy?

#468 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

How many jobs would you estimate that is? I would guess its in the 10s of thousands at least.

Now how about all the people that own stock in insurance companies? Do we just Enron their savings? "Sorry, should have invested your retirement savings in companies that liberals find pleasing?"

search Jobless claims article was printed Today!!!

#458 | Posted by RightofSpectrum

Weekly jobless claims rose again this week (unexpected) and core durable goods slipped further (unexpected). That with a 10 point drop in consumer confidence makes me think a "double dipper" may again be in the offing---Danni, any thoughts about this improving economy?

The health insurance industry is a parasite that sucks billions out of Americans every year. It figures that rightwingers love it. After all, big business is America's "oppressed minority".

But, notice any Plan they do put forward still involves keeping the Insurance Companies in control of your health care cause God forbid we take away their ability to profit on our misery.

#466 | Posted by donnerboy

If you think they can't change restrictions on Insurance Companies by allowing them to offer scaled down, spartan plans, I'd like to know what you and the Golden Calf you worship are drinking.
The fact of the matter is this has been the dream they've been wetting the bed over since they grew hair south of their beltlines...controlling 1/6th of the economy.

How is it better to take power from the insurance companies and transfer it to the federal government?

Nobody has put forth a plan that returns the power to the doctor, so why should anyone support this shit?

Devil you know, better than the one you don't.

because NO ONE needs to make 12 billion dollars profit on our Health Care.

And I agree (OMG!) the power needs to be returned to doctor and as we both know that is not happening and as we both know the Repugs are not going to allow a single payer system managed by the government at this time.

Hence, the bastardized bill we now have to work with. So, if we are going to get any kind of reform at all it looks like Reconciliation Time baby!

Nulli, how much money does the Fed make in taxes levied against insurance companies and their employees? ballpark figure...

because NO ONE needs to make 12 billion dollars profit on our Health Care.

What else don't people need to make profits on? cars? houses? computers? sports?

Just curious, comrade...

because NO ONE needs to make 12 billion dollars profit on our Health Care.
#473 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

Against how much revenue?

PS-the feds waste that much in less than a second.

You can certainly tell who the under achievers on this site are....

What else don't people need to make profits on? cars? houses? computers? sports?

Just curious, comrade...

#475 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Fires and Crime and libraries immediately come to mind comrade.

Fires and Crime and libraries immediately come to mind comrade.

#478 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY

I guess if it took the same amount of schooling and training to be a doctor that it does to put out fires or shush loud people I could agree with your comparison.

"How many jobs would you estimate that is? I would guess its in the 10s of thousands at least."

So what? Is the current healthcare system supposed to be a jobs program?

So what? Is the current healthcare system supposed to be a jobs program?

#480 | Posted by nullifidian

Ask Pelosi. She thinks so.

So what? Is the current healthcare system supposed to be a jobs program?

#480 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

No its not a jobs program but it does employ a lot of people across the country and you'd be sweeping in with a pink slip for every last one of them just because of your political ideology. Just doesn't seem right.

RobAHole: You continually place doctors on some uber high altar. As if they are the only ones in our society who work hard and dedicate themselves to a profession. I have known Police Detectives who have spent a lifetime studying crimes and crimescenes. They have insight and knowledge which are priceless and have cracked numerous cases. And yet by your values, they deserve far far les pay than some jackass doctor who may have gotten his/her degree in some third world medical and then immigrated to the U.S. and gotten certification here.
In fact, pretty much every important profession takes years or decades to master. And yet you seem to believe only MDs are inherently worth the obscene compensation they currently receive. Wouldn't you agree that maybe your viewpoint is skewed by the personal bias of being married to an MD?

Shit Current...my bad. They don't provide jobs. My Barber does open Heart Surgery and write claims while telling me gossip. It's no wonder why my sideburns are uneven.

"How many jobs would you estimate that is? I would guess its in the 10s of thousands at least.
#469 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole"

"What else don't people need to make profits on? cars? houses? computers? sports?
Just curious, comrade...
#475 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole"

Seriously, Rob, think this one through. Folks who build houses provide housing. Carmakers? Cars. Computer manufacturers provide us with computers, and sports provides entertainment. Insurance employees provide nothing of value. Nothing. I'm pretty surprised you can't discern the difference.

And yet you seem to believe only MDs are inherently worth the obscene compensation they currently receive.

It doesn't take hundreds of thousands of dollars in tuition for the majority of professions, followed by 3-10 years of grueling training afterwards.

I put doctors on a higher platform because sooner or later at least once in everyone's life you are really going to need at least one doctor. I've gone my whole life (and knock on wood will go the rest of if) without needing a police detective... without needing a fire fighter... without needing a lawyer for an extended period and so on and so forth.

Wouldn't you agree that maybe your viewpoint is skewed by the personal bias of being married to an MD?

Of course I'm biased. Doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. I've been with my wife since college... I've been there step by step through the whole damn process from applications to matches to board exams.

Doctors salaries aren't obscene. Can you you put in a hip replacement? Can you take a heart out of a human and replace it with another straight out of a cooler? Can you open a man's skull and repair damage to a brain with no adverse effects?

Cry to me about salaries when you can.

Insurance employees provide nothing of value.

I can see thinking that, but would you rather pay cash up front for an MRI when you blow out your knee? Its expensive.

FOSHAFFER

The bills were the results of months of committee meetings, where all the ideas contained in the bills were gathered.

RobAhole: I guarantee you that there are a hundred other professions out there which you would be clueless about if you were required to perform on your own. That includes fireman, chemist, tax attorney, police detective, physics professor, airline pilot, and so forth. All these professions are essential to the proper functioning of our society. All these professions can take a lifetime to master. My own job, criminal defense attorney, involves so much detailed knowledge that it is almost an artform. Yet none of these jobs seem to merit the same level of pay. I realize you disagree, but in my opinion there is nothing magical or wonderfully deserving about a person with an MD. Give them a decent salary. Maybe cut them some slack on payment of school loans. Call it fair.
(And for what it is worth, both my Dad and my brother are MDs. Usually I'm the one defending the skills of doctors.)

BTW did anyone hear in the President's opening remarks that his daughter had meningitis? He said that he was sitting in the ER thinking to himself how bad it would be if they didn't have health insurance.

I have two things to say about that: Bull and Shit.

I've had to take my daughter to the ER a couple of times for things far less life threatening than meningitis and coverage was the last thought on my mind. My kids health was #1.

Obama is either full of shit, or is a shit father. Worrying about the bill while his daughter is getting treated for a really bad illness? Fuck off... he's full of shit and was using his daughter's medical history to try and sway the press and legislators there. What a dirtbag.

"I've been with my wife since college...
#486 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole"

So have I.

(Tell her I said "Hey!")

Come on now. Take it in the spirit in which it was meant.

In fact, pretty much every important profession takes years or decades to master. And yet you seem to believe only MDs are inherently worth the obscene compensation they currently receive. Wouldn't you agree that maybe your viewpoint is skewed by the personal bias of being married to an MD?

#483 | Posted by moder8

I can relate to rob's position on this---many of the primary care physicians don't make huge amounts of money but, from my perspective, many of the specialists are overpaid.

My own job, criminal defense attorney, involves so much detailed knowledge that it is almost an artform.

Ahhhh... I've been hoping to talk to a lawyer.

I agree it takes a long time to learn your craft. But who gives a shit, let's cut your salary in half for fairness. Its not fair to some Harlem ghetto resident that he can only get a public defender while OJ Simpson can afford a whole team of lawyers who make millions of dollars a year.

So fuck it, now the most a lawyer can ever make is $150,000/year. You can make a fine living on that and now its fair to everyone.

"I can see thinking that, but would you rather pay cash up front for an MRI when you blow out your knee? Its expensive.
#487 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole"

I see what you're saying, but with single-payer not only would I not have to worry about paying up front, I wouldn't have to worry about paying the co-pay, deductible, patient responsibility, etc.

By the way, doctors should be paid a lot. MOre than most other professions.

So have I.
(Tell her I said "Hey!")
Come on now. Take it in the spirit in which it was meant.

#491 | POSTED BY MONTECORE

I literally just laughed out loud! Almost made me spit out my double bastard! Well played sir...

Right on. Makin' memories.

Actually, Matsop, I agree. Small town family practitioners who clear maybe 100K have my sympathy respect. But any doctor who makes a quarter of a million dollars a year and feels underpaid can go screw themselves. Greedy self serving bastards have no business going into a profession based on the notion of commitment and service to others.

My own job, criminal defense attorney, involves so much detailed knowledge that it is almost an artform.
Posted by moder8

An artform paid for by the taxpayers to those of you running up the tab with your nonstop foot dragging plea arrangements. I have more respect for the divided highway painters form of art, failure.

Greedy self serving bastards have no business going into a profession based on the notion of commitment and service to others.

Fucking defense attorneys charging thousands of dollars an hour when they should be working for a fourth the cost out of commitment and service to others.

This health care summit reminds me of two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.

Medicare (and SS) is going broke, but somehow the idiots think expanding it for the entire population constitutes some kind of social advancement.

In Moder8's world a guy who can manipulate a jury into setting free a man who brutally murders a woman and man deserves every dime.

But a guy who can pull a tumor out of your head without leaving you thinking your name is Horsey should be happy making 100K a year.

I can't imagine why people wish lawyers dead... just irrational hatred and jealousy I guess.

Moder8, bitching about what a Doctor makes. I've fucking seen it all. Hope you feel a tightness in your chest and call a plumber to save a dime.

RobAhole: The irony with law as with medicine and many other professions is that there is often little correlation between skill and salary. Some of the best private attorneys I know are lousy businessmen and make far less than I do. Some of the sleaziest most incompetent private attorneys I know are terrific businessmen who are multimillionaires. And where I practice, everyone from the judges to the DAs to law enforcement all know that most of the very criminal defense attorneys are public defenders. (We only make about $150,000 a year.) The point is, just because someone charges a lot of money doesn't mean the public gets any better service. I see it all the time in a variety of professions, including especially medical doctors.

" Greedy self serving bastards"

College football coaches?

College football coaches?

#504 | POSTED BY ZATOICHI

If I could quote Coach Winters from The Program:

Yeah, but when was the last time 80,000 people showed up to watch a kid do a damn chemistry experiment? Why don't you stick the bow-tie up your ass?

Rob, the kid in chemistry is much more important than some moron jock. And the 80,000 who watch morons run up and down a field throwing a ball couldn't get into chemistry class anyway, on account of being stupid.

I'll bet you take that money they generate without even so much as a thank you though don't you?

I see it all the time in a variety of professions, including especially medical doctors.

#503 | Posted by moder8

I see it all the time too, but Dr's earn what they make.

What puts you in a special position to see this. Did you say you are a public defender?

NCAA rules prohibit Alum's from attending games, right Zat? Much less leaving endowments or scholarships?

Speaking of doctor's pay, I used to work in Medical Illustration at Baylor College of Medicine. Michael DeBakey parked his red Ferrari at the front steps. It was a gift from a grateful patient.

I wouldn't know. I have never wasted one second watching a football game. What a pointless, imbecilic waste of time.

Honest question. Why do people like Moder8, Zat, AmericanUnity et al feel the need to reveal their professions on a site like this? It really doesn't help you make a point considering it's more than likely a bullshit fantasy to further your posts.

I wouldn't know. I have never wasted one second watching a football game. What a pointless, imbecilic waste of time.

#511 | POSTED BY ZATOICHI

I know this sentence is in English and these are actually words, but I've honestly never seen or heard them arranged in such a way... You are American right?


I wouldn't know. I have never wasted one second watching a football game. What a pointless, imbecilic waste of time.

#511 | Posted by Zatoichi

Dude, I've been rooting for the Saints with my dad since I was four. My dad taught me the game. I watched it with him. I know the game, but since my dad died I've never watch a whole game through. Except, the last 2 Saints games. It's been a long time since I had that much fun.

I agree with you. The game can seem like an over-rated waste of time, but when your team wins the Superbowl? I don't know, it's like having an out-of-body experience.


Honest question. Why do people like Moder8, Zat, AmericanUnity et al feel the need to reveal their professions on a site like this? It really doesn't help you make a point considering it's more than likely a bullshit fantasy to further your posts.

#512 | Posted by wisgod

It does give a perspective. Moder8 and Zat work for very large institutions (gov or univ) where jobs are usually very secure and there are institutional rules that give the comfort of more security--like you have power over your co-workers.

What does AU do?

Their professions and especially their employers have relevence in this conversation.

For example, I be fired from either of these places because I just don't fit the mold.

I'm an independent software developer corp-to-corp for fortune 50 companies and I have a computer repair business, locally where I hire techs (I can't fix jack!)

Wis: Do you honestly think people would lie about their job as some way of living out a Walter Mitty type fantasy on an anonymous public board? Wow. Fact of the matter is that if another poster asks Zat about his area of scientific expertise, he can answer it in depth. Someone asks me about California criminal law or jury trials, I can answer in depth. It is what we do and who we are. It influences our worldview and a great number of posts on this site.

I know this sentence is in English and these are actually words, but I've honestly never seen or heard them arranged in such a way... You are American right?

#513 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

HAHAHAHAHA!!

It used to be baseball.

Actually, Matsop, I agree. Small town family practitioners who clear maybe 100K have my sympathy respect. But any doctor who makes a quarter of a million dollars a year and feels underpaid can go screw themselves. Greedy self serving bastards have no business going into a profession based on the notion of commitment and service to others.

#497 | Posted by moder8

The sad thing about the professions and other vocations needing a diploma is that for certain individuals with that diploma; it becomes a license to steal. The individuals with integrity often do not make the kind of money some of their compatriots do---who stay just within a legal framework but cut corners to make more---I've watched it for years in my profession. Look at the investment bankers that made millions and put this country at risk---legally, probably alright but morally reprehensible.

Wis: Do you honestly think people would lie about their job as some way of living out a Walter Mitty type fantasy on an anonymous public board?
Posted by moder8

I most certainly do. You've shown nothing to make me think otherwise.

So after 7 hours of theatre, 2 of it Obama saying "Uh, um, uh um, shut up rethugs etc..." NOTHING bipartisan will be produced. The dems will shove this botched abortion of bill up America's ass with 51 votes and say "Here...we fixed it."

And the insurance companies will raise ALL of our rates to cover their asses.

BTW - Someone mentioned it before but HERE is why the House bill is 1990 pages. It reads like a fucking Sally, Dick and Jane book with the double spacing, 14 point fonts, 2.5" margins and enough legal bullshit to choke a cow.

I most certainly do. You've shown nothing to make me think otherwise.

#519 | Posted by wisgod

Wisgod, I believe him.

Why would he lie?

If you are going to lie, lie big!

Honest question. Why do people like Moder8, Zat, AmericanUnity et al feel the need to reveal their professions on a site like this? It really doesn't help you make a point considering it's more than likely a bullshit fantasy to further your posts.

#512 | Posted by wisgod

Who'd have thought assholes would make it an issue?

Who'd have thought assholes would make someone's family members dying troll fodder?

Who'd have suspected there were assholes like you online who'd stoop so low?

I've been retired since 1997. My present position is largely self-funded. There is no job security beyond my ability to find a few sponsors interested in archaeology. Nice try, and wrong.

The University gives me lab space(It's useless for anything else and too costly to demolish. It would be unused if it weren't for me. It has no heat and only a kluge AC.) and The University doesn't charge administrative overhead on any sponsor monies I dig up, I'll give them that.

Who'd have thought assholes would make someone's family members dying troll fodder?

Who'd have suspected there were assholes like you online who'd stoop so low?

#522 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

If that's directed at me, I'll rain a shit storm down on you. I never commented on your sisters death other than sending my condolences.
Now post a link of me doing it or be a man and aplogize. You've crossed the line.

I have to say that for most folks this was boring.

Now for political junkies it was better.

And people will get the sense that they tried --they were civil.

But at the end of the day--did Obama change anyone's mind--to the people in the room, the moderate Dems or the public??

Highly unlikely.

Then his Plan B will be reconciliation.

They can't get this passed in the House.--

So big deal for the Senate nuclear option. It won't pass the House.

And the repubs really got 7 hours of air time to air out all their ideas and talk about how this bill will bk the country.

They have about 10 things they all agree on. But Obama is stuck on the Senate bill which won't pass the House.

So the choice is 10 things or nothing at all.

The ball is with Obama and the Dems. And it's not the repubs who are stopping this--it's the Dems within their own party that won't pass the Senate bill.

Wis accusing someone of crossing the line? Wow.

Wis accusing someone of crossing the line? Wow.

#527 | Posted by moder8

I'm accusing someone of being a liar, California Counselor. I understand your problem comprehending that.

If that's directed at me, I'll rain a shit storm down on you. I never commented on your sisters death other than sending my condolences.

Yes, you did. Then, rather than making a personal apology, you made a general apology to the board. Don't lie.

WISGOD at work

And that's your proof. A fucking childish cartoon? You are a piece of shit.

This is AmericanUnity at his finest. Painted into a corner after shooting his mouth off again. Enjoy everyone.
Goodnight.

#526 | Posted by MURPHY

And I didn't see ONE person taking notes or drawing on the nerd board for follow-up discussions. What a waste of time and TV coverage.

WISGOD

You were asshole enough to make asshole comments about my mom and sister dying in 2008. You know you did, I know you did, and others here know you did.

You apologized on the Nooner for after several others jumped your ass, but have never been man enough to make a direct apology to me.

You're a low life scumbag. The Ronald McDonald pic is symbolic of you.

You got called out. Deal with it.

I've been retired since 1997

Wow... I was a freshman in college sneaking kegs in small unit fridge boxes into my room and watching Florida State football kick ass.

You old bastard.

AU - how about a link? Can you find the thread you are referring to? (For your sake, I hope so. Eddie says shitstorms smell really, really bad.)

Yes, you did. Then, rather than making a personal apology, you made a general apology to the board. Don't lie.
WISGOD at work

#529 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

Are you sure this wasn't me? Sure as shit sounds like something I would have done...

It was awhile back, MONTECORE. I don't keep archives of other posters comments.

Wisgod knows what he said, I know what he said, and others here know what he's said. He only apologized in general after other posters jumped his ass. I don't even flag his tripe. Same old same old.

Who cares about Wisgod's 'shitstorms'? He and Chair make up shit on the fly when their other shit doesn't pan out. If they want to call me a liar who gives a fuck? It's about half of what they do on this site to half the posters here. Big deal.

ROB

You said plenty of stuff for sure LOL. I remember most of it. No, it was Wisgod I was talking about. He knows what I'm talking about.

#233 | Posted by Corky at 2010-02-25 02:34 PM | Reply | Flag: Disgruntled Hillary supporter turned BCS.

#539 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY
#537 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole
#533 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

And the Drudge Retort Special Olympics continues...next up...Kanrei and Corky square off in the 400 word free form.

Rcade is just sitting back counting his advertising money and thinking, "I love America and the two party system."

Beachbuzz I hate your posts more than I hate child trafficking... douche

Who cares about Wisgod's 'shitstorms'?
Posted by AMERICANUNITY

You will.

Obama was an embarrassment today. Without his teleprompter he is just, well, stupid.

WISGOD

I'll wait in my imaginary conversion van. It's hard to understand why someone who's supposedly an adult wants to act like an angry, acting out child 24/7. Not getting enough attention at home?


Beachbuzz I hate your posts more than I hate child trafficking... douche

#542 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole

Really? I actually like your posts.

ROB

The new mature ROB is a good read. Thanks for the exchange awhile back too.

Not getting enough attention at home?

#545 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

Typical AU. Tell a boldfaced lie and it's now my fault. The best thing you can do is shut the fuckup about it, Colonel.

ROB

The new mature ROB is a good read. Thanks for the exchange awhile back too.

#547 | Posted by AMERICANUNITY

The really BIG question is: how long will it last?

Typical AU. Tell a boldfaced lie

#548 | Posted by wisgod

And all these years I thought it was "baldfaced".

WISGOD

Several posters jumped your ass for your comments. You apologized in general terms, but weren't man enough to do so to me directly. If you were I wouldn't hold you in such contempt.

Hard to understand how someone can be such a consistent asshole as you're been to half the posters on this site on a daily basis. You used to actually say something useful. Now, it's nonstop tripe 24/7. WTF.

And all these years I thought it was "baldfaced".

#550 | Posted by matsop

He had his rug on when he posted it.

OH, gee, how mature. I don't bother flagging your posts.

Oh, now I have a toupee too? You're a laugh a minute (to yourself)

The President showed his inexperience today. Having spent absolutley no time in real politics he has no idea how it works. God help us all...

The President showed his inexperience today. Having spent absolutley no time in real politics he has no idea how it works. God help us all...

#556 | Posted by em385guy

I think we're beyond that point already.

"Tell a boldfaced lie and it's now my fault."

Hmmm...you seem to have plenty of experience with that.

And the Drudge Retort Special Olympics continues...next up...Wisgod and Americanunity square off in the 15 word free form.

Rcade is STILL just sitting back counting his advertising money and thinking, "I love America and the two party system."

I haven't seen so much hate out here since Jackass outed ______ (fill in the blank).

"You can fuck youself too, asshole"

Too rich. You lied, I called you on it, and you tried to make it my fault.

Don't like to be held to the same standards, do you?

"Beachbuzz I hate your posts more than I hate child trafficking... douche
#542 | Posted by Rob_The_A_Hole"

No shit. Was Beachball even around when you posting before? Fuck, he is a ballbag.

No shit. Was Beachball even around when you posting before? Fuck, he is a ballbag.

#562 | Posted by mOntecOre

Still not as bad as Special EDdie.

Too rich. You lied, I called you on it, and you tried to make it my fault.

Don't like to be held to the same standards, do you?

#561 | Posted by Danforth

Not when I don't know what some gay, condesending, buttinski is fucking talking about. Now spellcheck it, little man. That's your A-Game afterall.

"Still not as bad as Special EDdie.
#563 | Posted by Whatsleft"

True. But that's a really low bar you're setting.

Long story short, here is what I believe we will end up with... 2 health care systems.

1 for the rich, who can shop for their own care and pay for the best, and 1 for everyone else, where you have a fairly even chance of being denied coverage cause some gov't worker is on the rag or stoned. And, if you do get to see a doctor, they will no longer be the cream of the crop, as the best in the world will not come to the US when they are being paid more in other places. The brightest people in college will gravitate to fields that pay better, and we will get doctors with the IQ of teachers, and the results will be more dead... Can anyone believe that any politician will give a flip? As long as they have enough sheep to get reelected.

But the majority will have the same crappy care, so lefties will feel good for having destroyed a better system. Oh, and the price will not be any cheaper. Our new system will be horrible, making even the Canadian system look good in comparison. Because we have SO many fat people, and so many druggies, etc., that the burden on the new system will have huge waiting lines, ala the Russian's waiting in line for bread.

You libs are starting to give me a complex.

So, what exactly did Obama accomplish today? According to the news channels he pissed off a hell of a lot of people. Depending on the news channel you watch, he pissed off your audience and team.

Seven hours of debate and NOW America knows why congress doesn't get anything done without a fucking bull whip, reelection dollars or some Kobe beef.

#567 | Posted by 1libertarian

Sobering L.

Even my Plan doesn't account for your gloomy picture.

The Beachbuzz HealthCare Bill

**Single payer run by a non-profit "Company", with government oversight
**All US citizens are covered for a monthly payroll fee ($25 per month) based on the number of dependents you have.
**All Hospital procedures and prescription drugs are at a fixed cost, with a review every 3 years.
**At the end of the year ALL monthly payroll fees are adjusted based on the profit/loss of the "Company".

Honestly, Barry is ignoring all polls because he's not doing this for the American people, they don't want it according to the polls. He's doing it for the unions who'd have millions of dollars once they don't have to pay for union health care. I don't believe for a half a second that union dues will go down once the union stops paying for healthcare. Andy Stern's SEIU will pocket millions at our expense. This will make the chump change the insurance companies was getting look like child's play.

Yes, we need healthcare reform. We don't need to rewrite the whole damn system. THIS NEVER WAS ABOUT THE UNINSURED, it was about the unions. If it was about the uninsured, they'd have just expanded medicare or created another program just to handle the uninsured.

Lonnie

I'm a union employee and get better healthcare than 99% of America and I favor health care reform.

"Not when I don't know what some gay, condesending, buttinski is fucking talking about."

I'm a straight, condescending buttinski. And what you don't know could fill a multiple set of encyclopedias.

Of course, if you actually had any nads, you'd admit you were wrong about your '13% Wisconsin tax rate' and apologize for being such a dick about your ignorance. Not that I'm going to hold my breath until you grow some.

"I must have wished Danforth's Sister and Mother to have their ashes flushed down the toilet too. But I apologized to everyone on the nooner, but you. Right, twat?"

So how many beers does it take for you to admit the truth?

However, I think the Dems screwed themselves when they proclaimed that they would enact such massive cuts AND, simultaneously, improve the overall quality of the program.

Based on what I heard during the summit, Medicare benefits are protected by law and will NOT be changed. The savings in Medicare will come from two sources: 1) Waste, Fraud and Abuse and 2) termination of the Medicare Advantage program.

1) During the summit, a Republican (Tom Coburn?) stated that one out of every three dollars spent on Medicare is wasted or fraudently spent. Democrats agreed and have included substantial provisions in their bill to address waste, fraud and abuse; many of these provisions were championed by Republicans.

2) The government is paying private insurers $1.15 for every $1.00 they spend to provide medical insurance for seniors in the Medicare Advantage program. It has been determined that the medical outcomes of seniors in this program are no different than those of seniors in regular Medicare. Therefore, Democrats have rightly decided to discontinue the subsidy to Medicare Advantage medical insurance providers, terminate the program (every where except FL?) and move all seniors into regular Medicare.

Eddie says plainly and emphatically:
Dr's earn what they make.
okaaaayyyy....

i259.photobucket.com

i hate it when people type idiot stuff like:

Only 25% of Americans want these bills to pass:
Twenty-five percent of people questioned in the poll say....

Crispeecritter says:
Here's an idea, open up clinics at colleges and military bases for those who can't afford or have access to doctors. Isn't an ounce of prevention, worth a pound of cure?

you f'in traitor commie. next you'll want universal single payer (that means for all, no rich folks buying up all the docs, or vice versa).

but no, that's a stupid idea.

The big bugaboo coming out of this HC summit is the debate in the media over whether or not the bills being proposed will indeed lower premiums or raise them for folks.

Putting aside the reality that Medical costs have been skyrocketing every year fer decades now the claim from the right, specifically FOX, is that most people will have their rates raised 10 to 13 percent. This figure was quoted a fair bit in the summit by the right and trumpeted over and over on FOX.

It's not true.

Not according to the CBO anyway.

On Nov. 30, 2009, the Congressional Budget Office, or CBO, released a detailed analysis on how health insurance premiums might be affected by the Senate Democrats' health care bill. The CBO is an independent agency whose estimates for pending legislation are considered nonpartisan and rigorous.

The CBO reported that, for most people, premiums would stay about the same, or slightly decrease. This was especially true for people who get their insurance through work. (Health policy wonks call these the large group and small group markets.) People who have to go out and buy insurance on their own (the individual market) would see rates increase by 10 to 13 percent. But more than half of those people -- 57 percent, in fact -- would be eligible for subsidies to help them pay for the insurance. People who get subsidies would see their premiums drop by more than half, according to the CBO. So most people would see their premiums stay the same or potentially drop.

www.politifact.com

Be Well.