I would have preferred to add oversight and judicial review improvements to any extension of expiring provisions in the USA Patriot Act," said Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. "But I understand some Republican senators objected."

Dem legislatures are pussies!

how did you know the repubs were objecting? Their lips were moving!

*SHOCK*

Are we talking about the Bush Chaney Patriot Act? More Bush policy? Say it ain't so.

President Bush and President Obama look more and more alike each day.

Of course, with all the focus on the health care bill (aka Chicago cornholing) there just wasn't any time to actually DEBATE the issues...

Its called bullshit and misdirection. Dems were all opposed to the patriot act when it was a Repub in office, and they all have a little tingle running up their legs when their own side has the exact same power.

The only surprise here is that the Repubs are not all screaming in the isles about the evil Dems not rehashing the patriot act. Wonder if that is cause repubs are more interested in country than talking point? Nah, probably not... must be some other reason. But I do wonder, why they haven't said "NO" to this issue?

re: But I do wonder, why they haven't said "NO" to this issue?

How could they? They advanced every proposal for increased executive power including illegal surveillance and torture, and still do. What the Republican Party does now, at most, is claim that Obama is killing and imprisoning too many terrorists and torturing too few.

They will never let the patriot act expire.

The only solution is to vote out every representative who supports it. Obama included.

If you hated it under bush but dont complain about it under obama you are a partisan hack.

If you tolerated it under bush but bitch about it under obama, you are a partisan hack.

No differance between demosplats and republithugs.
Criminal, subversive traitors.

Note that this happened without debate. I'm sure glad our government works efficiently when it comes to taking a huge shit on our civil liberties...

President Bush and President Obama look more and more alike each day.

#4 | Posted by andyuhenet

Especially now that W spends more time in the Sun at the Crawford Ranch.

The sad reality here is that Americans have so been fed a line of bullshit over-hyping fears of terrorism for so long now and so effectively that it is pretty much political suicide to try dismantling the Orwellian-named Patriot Act.

Or so goes the conventional wisdom inside the beltway.

Which, sadly, is the only wisdom they got.

The idea there being that if one voted to let parts of the Act expire then a terrorist act on US soil did happen that anyone who voted for the expiration or against extension would be without a political heartbeat.

Spud questions the logic there but gots no polling data to refute it.

Regardless, the Patriot Act is a governmental over-reach that suppresses individual rights to property and privacy and nobody of either party should support it's excesses.

Bush was wrong to start it.

Obama is wrong to extend it.

K?

Be Well.

the amazing thing about the patriot act is how quickly after 9/11 it was introduced and passed. seeing how long it has taken to do health care it makes you wonder.

Ron Paul 2012!!!

I stood in line all day to vote for Obama. WTF this guy is starting to look like a bust. He doesn't get healthcare passed but manages to infringe on our liberties. At least Paul would not do this. We wouldn't get shit but at least our civil liberties would be safe.

Somebody needs to wake up Russ Feingold. He was the biggest piss and moaner when Bush was President. Where is he now? Obama's pocket?

Somebody needs to wake up Russ Feingold.

Are you kidding Russ is one of the few American politicians that Spud would classify as being "awake".

Part of the solution rather than the problem.

Russ continues to want to sunset as much of the Faux-Patriot Act as is politically feasible but obviously can't do it all alone.

Fun Feingold Fact time.

Did you know that Congress gives itself an automatic pay raise every year?

Russ is the sponsor of a Bill that would prevent that from happening.

Russ sez he doesn't deserve a raise until the folks who vote him into office decide he deserves one.

Russ sends back the extra every year to the treasury department.

The Senate could use 100 Russ Feingolds.

Have you heard about his "Control Spending Now Act" that he just proposed?

Some Good Stuff.

"Patriot Act Extended"

*smh

Are you kidding Russ is one of the few American politicians that Spud would classify as being "awake".

Posted by dethspud

He hasn't lifted a finger regarding the Patriot Act since Obama took ofice. You might want to lower the legs on your pedestal.

He hasn't lifted a finger regarding the Patriot Act since Obama took ofice. You might want to lower the legs on your pedestal.

Well, either that or you might wanna aqauint yerself with the facts.

Amendments that were offered but failed by voice vote included an amendment by Sen. Richard Durbin (D-Illinois) to curb the abuse of the overly broad National Security Letter (NSL) statute and another offered by Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wisconsin) to allow the "lone wolf" provision to expire (the never-used provision that targets individuals who are not connected to terrorist groups).

An amendment also failed that would make it more difficult for recipients to challenge the gag order that comes with receiving an NSL.

However, there were two amendments included in the final bill - both offered by Senator Feingold - that are victories for privacy: The Department of Justice would be ordered to discard any illegally obtained information received in response to an NSL and the government must notify suspects of "sneak and peek" searches within seven days instead of the thirty days currently outlined in the statute. "Sneak and peek" searches allow the government to search a home without notifying the resident immediately.

Russ rawks.

You do know he was the only one to vote against this bill when it was first introduced.

Posted by dethspud

Yes, I remember. The guy has stones, I'll give him that. But at the moment he's praying Tommy Thompson doesn't enter the Senate race he's in.

Wis,

Here is what is truly sad - the Dems are drunk on power to a degree that was unfathomable to the Bush GOP early-on. What is truly sad is that it's the blue-dogs and certain moderates who are at the biggest risk. If the Reid's and Pelosi's were being swept out both sides would rejoice (It may happen with Reid, but Pelosi is likely safe no matter what happens). But no, it's the moderates who are being cast aside.

But at the moment he's praying Tommy Thompson doesn't enter the Senate race he's in.

New Rasmussen poll has Thompson ahead there by 4 points.

Spud's take is that is folk in Wisconsin are stupid enough to get rid of one of the few decent pols around fer an absolute babbling moron like Thompson then they deserve every bad thing that happens to them from then on.

And Spud will taunt them mercilessly fer the rest of his days.

Just letting ya know in advance.

Be Well.

But no, it's the moderates who are being cast aside.
#20 | Posted by JeffJ

If that was true I'd be a Democrat.

In agreeing to pass the bill, Senate Democrats retreated from adding new privacy protections to the USA Patriot Act.
...

It would also give Democrats some cover from Republican criticism that the Obama administration is soft on terrorism.

What liberties am I losing with the Patriot Act. I need to know so I can be outraged as well.

And Spud will taunt them mercilessly fer the rest of his days.

Just letting ya know in advance.

Be Well.

#21 | Posted by dethspud

As soon as Tommy anounces he's running, bring it on. I'll be contributing and volunteering.
Just letting ya know in advance.

What liberties am I losing with the Patriot Act. I need to know so I can be outraged as well.

#25 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

How about the fact that all the gov has to do is CALL you a 'terrorist', then they can lock you up indefinitely without any proof whatsoever.

What exactly is the difference between the dems and the repubs?

Not much at all. They both have utter contempt for the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

That is what happens when you people keep on voting for the so-called major parties.

ah the nazification act is extended again.

surprise surprise surprise!

They can accuse me of rape and ruin my life, or of fraud, or of drug trafficking. Not much to stop the government from doing those things anyhow, if they're so inclined.

The libbies were upset over the Patriot Act for one reason, and only one: Bush got it through. Now that even the libs realize that all the predicted abuses of Patriot Act powers never happened, they slink away, and pass an extension without even a debate.

'Your opinion is meaningless. You don't live in the United States. Think Prime Directive"

Prime Directive? Star Trek? You're citing Star Trek?

Everyone's opinion matters these days. It's a global world, and America is the Hegemon. If you really believe that, I hope you don't say shit about happens anywhere else.

+++++

That said, I'm entirely unsurprised that the PATRIOT Act is alive and well. Pissed, but not surprised. And it has nothing to do with Obama.

All I gotta say, really, is where is that crowd who shouts "It's unconstitutional" about health care and every other "liberal" issue? The PATRIOT Act is about as unconstitutional as we have gotten in the last ten years. Well, not all of it, but...

Again, why am I not surprised? Doesn't make me wanna vote for Ron Paul, but those who will give up liberty in exchange for security deserve neither.

How about the fact that all the gov has to do is CALL you a 'terrorist', then they can lock you up indefinitely without any proof whatsoever.

#27 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2010-02-25 02:28 PM | Reply

As if the government was accused of "making people disappear" well before any "Patriot Act".
You'll have to come up with something else. Something tangible.

was=Wasn't

this is all that change people were talking about i think.

That said, I'm entirely unsurprised that the PATRIOT Act is alive and well. Pissed, but not surprised. And it has nothing to do with Obama.

#31 | Posted by pragmatist at 2010-02-25 04:29 PM

okay so let me get this straight..
the senate which is now filled to a majority of democrats, most of which were the same ones calling for bush to go to jail and.or be impeached because of this...NOW they vote to extend it...

could it be because..OH I DONT KNOw...
IT WORKS

The "Patriot" Act needs to GO (should have been called the: Here! Take my rights! act). I don't care if Bob the Builder is in office, it was a BAD idea to start with and it's STILL a BAD idea.

Amazing how some want so many things happening under his presidency to have "nothing to do with Obama." Why they would want that is really a mystery.

They can accuse me of rape and ruin my life, or of fraud, or of drug trafficking. Not much to stop the government from doing those things anyhow, if they're so inclined.
The libbies were upset over the Patriot Act for one reason, and only one: Bush got it through. Now that even the libs realize that all the predicted abuses of Patriot Act powers never happened, they slink away, and pass an extension without even a debate.

#30 | POSTED BY RIGHTISRIGHT

Sure there is. There's your constitutional rights to face your accuser, your right to a phone call, your right to an attorney. Under the patriot act and the arbitrary murkey designation of 'terrorism' those all vanish.

And what is a terrorist? Someone who acts out in opposition to the government. So what is a 'potential terrorist?' someone who simply disagrees with the government. So if you disagree with the government's policies, no matter how insane they are, you are a potential terrorist, and they can make you disappear. And its LEGAL.

On a side note, does anyone else find it shocking how quickly a 300 page constitution-shredding bill was ready, a mere 6 weeks after 9-11? Seems someone had it ready to go. Not saying bush committed 9-11, but when else has our government acted so quickly with such little discussion on such a huge issue?

The fact that obama renewed it simply shows he serves the same masters as bush.

the legislators are just pussies, scared of fox labeling them as pro-terrorist. one more blessing from the zero-depth sound-bite news channels.

oh speaksoftly...
by the way..I guess your monikor means you are a progresive since that was the motto of a progresive republican???

nice post...thanks for the laugh....( im teasing)

I guess the idea that bush could get something done is completely out of the rhelm of a possibility?
just asking lol

Man, Obama and the dems are sounding and acting more and more like "Bushies"---Obama said today he actually believes in free markets---these threads are getting more fun all the time---pretty soon the world will actually be flat---and the lefties; may we have a moment of silence for them---Obama is moving policy wise away from them as fast as his little pragmatic legs will carry him (trumping his ideology---oh, remember, he doesn't care if he is re-elected)--- he's throwing Corky, Danni, Deadpotato, Zombie, etal. under the bus with a fervor never imagined. This is really fun--I can't wait for 2012 to roll around and vote for "Hopium and Changeless".

How about the fact that all the gov has to do is CALL you a 'terrorist', then they can lock you up indefinitely without any proof whatsoever.

Considering the subject of the comment, that's not in itself such a bad idea, but making it a policy for ordinary citizens is draconian.

In the end it comes down to matsop's synopsis when he wrote, "...Obama said today he actually believes in free markets..." and then, "...Obama is moving policy wise away from them as fast as his little pragmatic legs will carry him (trumping his ideology...".

The fact is neither one really understands the facts here. It was the Senate, not Obama, that passed this vote on the patriot act and Obama has never indicated he did not believe in the free market system (in it's proper context of health reform that matsop conveniently neglected to mention. I guess he still thinks Obama and the Democratic party are socialists.

It's amazing how few republicans know that the executive branch and the legislative branch are two different branches of the government. Next they will tell us that the Supreme Court is a liberal court run by congress and Obama both.

"Riiight... It's not like he voted for extending as senator or anything...."

Sorry, I should have said, it has nothing to do with Obama as President. Obama is not Congress. I have long said that Congress needs to be smacked for being spineless the last several years, so I'm not excusing their role in the PATRIOT Act. Never did.

+++++

"could it be because..OH I DONT KNOw...
IT WORKS"

No, because they think that people think it works, because they're ruled by polls, because most Americans are, should we say, willing to give up liberty for security. Fools. And as far as I know, not many congressional dems ever really called for war crimes. A few, yes (Leahy?), but hardly all.

+++++

And Matsop, anyone who was really paying attention wouldn't have thought Obama was a far leftie in accord with those of us here who are. Hell, I'm not even a far leftie compared with many here.

What liberties am I losing with the Patriot Act. I need to know so I can be outraged as well.

#25 | Posted by 101Chairborne

Not 'liberties'. You are only losing the very concept of liberty.

Liberty and freedom are not the same thing. Liberty exists as a state of mind while freedoms can only be given or taken away. Liberty doesn't even acknowledge the idea that a power has the right to give or take away certain freedoms.

That is what you have lost. With the patriot act or other fascist documents, the supposition is that a power does have the right to override even your most basic human rights.

Maybe you think all that is okay, as long as you can feel safe and warm?

And Matsop, anyone who was really paying attention wouldn't have thought Obama was a far leftie in accord with those of us here who are. Hell, I'm not even a far leftie compared with many here.

#46 | Posted by pragmatist

And therefore your moniker.

What exactly is the difference between the dems and the repubs?

I was gonna write that "Democrats give great speeches in Berlin," but I almost forgot about Reagan's "tear down this wall" speech. So no, there is no difference.

Liberty and freedom are not the same thing. Liberty exists as a state of mind while freedoms can only be given or taken away. Liberty doesn't even acknowledge the idea that a power has the right to give or take away certain freedoms.

#47 | Posted by Lipzoidial

Then, should Mel Gibson in "Braveheart" have been yelling "liberty" in the end when his "nads" were being compromised?

yelling "liberty" in the end when his "nads" were being compromised?

#50 | Posted by matsop

what, you think william wallace was an intellectual?

yelling "liberty" in the end when his "nads" were being compromised?

#50 | Posted by matsop

what, you think william wallace was an intellectual?

#51 | Posted by Lipzoidial

Decent point---then you'd probably link him evolutionally with some of the "righties" on these threads.

Decent point---then you'd probably link him evolutionally with some of the "righties" on these threads.

#52 | POSTED BY MATSOP

Braveheart rules...

I'll bet Braveheart could beat up Chuck Norris.

I'll bet Braveheart could beat up Chuck Norris.

#54 | Posted by Lipzoidial

I don't think it would happen---you know, professional courtesy and all that---I would say philosophically they're both conservative or libertarian.

Matsop,

Lost it in the thread somewhere are you pro or con Patriot Act? It might affect my vote for you in 2012.

For all those saying it was the senate and not Obama, he wanted them extended. No he may not have actualy extended them but he didn't get out there and tell dems hey don't vote for this I don't want this kind of power.

Oh and Chuck Norris' beard could take William Wallace, philosophically speaking.

Tao, I really didn't say but I'll say now---I didn't have a problem with it when the Al Qaeda threat was fresh and our internal national economy was strong---what makes me nervous is the fact that what starts as a legitimate need can morph into something not originally intended---I fear that our country is headed for very rough times economically (Greece's default situation on it's sovereign debt reminds me of the subprime situation early on) and we could face internal strife eventually that we've never seen in our history---in times like that governments can take something legitimate and turn it into something unsuspected---just my musings---what's your take?

For all those saying it was the senate and not Obama, he wanted them extended. No he may not have actualy extended them but he didn't get out there and tell dems hey don't vote for this I don't want this kind of power.

#56 | Posted by TaoWarrior

Ringmaster made the point that it was the senate and not Obama---however, you can bet Obama gave his tacit (no,direct) approval to the dem leadership---even commonsense (where is he anyway) would understand this.

I was against the Patriot Act from the get go for the same reasons you have come to see. I was against it at the get go. However I did not see Bush/Cheney as these big three headed monsters ripping apart the constitution for their own gains I saw it more as a continuation of the same trends that I see going farther back than I have been alive.

Ringmaster made the point that

#58 | Posted by matsop at

Well I knew you didn't make it. Why does it always have to be ring?

Ringmaster made the point that

#58 | Posted by matsop at

Well I knew you didn't make it. Why does it always have to be ring?

#60 | Posted by TaoWarrior

That's just the way Ringo is---half the time I feel he's talking to himself but he at times is a fun guy to have around especially when he has some knowledge about a subject.

By the way, I agree with you about the fact that Bush/Cheney didn't have a sinister reason with the Patriot Act but unfortunately, with time, an act like that can be abusive especially after its' usefulness (for reasons enacted) is no longer there.

Remember all those envelopes of anthrax being mailed to legislators while the patriot act was being created? Then after is was passed, they suddenly stopped?

Later, they catch the supposed perpetrator, and he 'commits suicide' before being brought to trial. a 'lone wolf' who 'acted alone'. case closed.

if you believe in conspiracies, that would really get you salivating.

On a side note, does anyone else find it shocking how quickly a 300 page constitution-shredding bill was ready, a mere 6 weeks after 9-11?

No. Because it's happened before.

if you believe in conspiracies, that would really get you salivating.

#62 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

The simplest answer is usually the correct one, no matter how distasteful it is to people's delicate sensibilities.

The simple answer is that, given the number and percentage of ignorant, apethetic americans, we have exactly the gov't we deserve (and that we've asked for). Oppressive, totalitarian and masters of situational ethics and propaganda.

For all those saying it was the senate and not Obama, he wanted them extended. No he may not have actualy extended them but he didn't get out there and tell dems hey don't vote for this I don't want this kind of power.

The fact of the matter is that the vote was passed without discussion, so what difference would it make if Obama had voiced his opinion one way or another? If every president in history had power over congress we wouldn't have a democracy. You can blame the president all you want to but in the end all he has is veto power and in this case he did not want to dump the bill, but he did support the recommended changes that were rejected because the democrats could not muster a super majority. That is as much the republican's fault as it was the democrats.

BTW... Matsop needs to keep his opinions to himself. Snide remarks won't hide his own foolish and uneducated remarks. They only make him look vindictive.

I agree with you about the fact that Bush/Cheney didn't have a sinister reason with the Patriot Act

I'm sure you thought the reasons for the war in Iraq was not malicious either. Your kind never do get the whole picture.

BTW... Matsop needs to keep his opinions to himself. Snide remarks won't hide his own foolish and uneducated remarks. They only make him look vindictive.

#65 | Posted by RingMaster

Ringmaster, snide? I was quite salutary toward you and your postings. I said:

1---you were a fun guy to have around

2---you had some knowledge of some subjects

A guy compliments another and he still gets no respect. I'm disappointed in you.

A guy compliments another and he still gets no respect.

Walt Whitman you are not. Stick to random thoughts with decades old conservative think tank views.

The fact of the matter is that the vote was passed without discussion, so what difference would it make if Obama had voiced his opinion one way or another?

#65 | Posted by RingMaster at 2010-02-26 09:18 AM

As Joe posted:

At least Paul would not do this. We wouldn't get shit but at least our civil liberties would be safe.

#13 | Posted by jackass at 2010-02-25 08:39 AM | Reply | Flag

OK who in the hell is ghost writing for jackasshole?

you mean, the Patriot Act that was written well in advance of 9/11 and not because of 9/11? that one?

CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL CHANGE FAIL