Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Wednesday, February 24, 2010

Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams chose to travel to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month rather than receive a full or partial sternotomy in his country. In an interview with The Canadian Press, Williams said he went to Miami to have a "minimally invasive" surgery for an ailment first detected nearly a year ago, based on the advice of his doctors. "This was my heart, my choice and my health," Williams said from his condominium in Sarasota, Fla. "I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics."

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Even he knows we have the best possible health care money can buy.

Even he knows we have the best possible health care money can buy.

The question was never "Is US Health Care any good or not?"

The question has always been "Is the delivery system for that health care affordable and available to enuff people?"

The answer to that one is "No".

Be Well.

An unapologetic Danny Williams says he was aware his trip to the United States for heart surgery earlier this month would spark outcry, but he concluded his personal health trumped any public fallout over the controversial decision.
----------

As do most of the Hockey players, where does Canadas best player Sydney Crosby prefer to play? The United States

The Stanley Cup to a Canadian is like the Super Bowl to Americans, can you imagine what it would be like to watch Vancuver play Calgery in the Super Bowl, thats what it's like for Candians during the Stanley Cup.

How's that Socialism working out.

The question was never "Is US Health Care any good or not?"

The question has always been "Is the delivery system for that health care affordable and available to enuff people?"

The answer to that one is "No".

Be Well.

#2 | Posted by dethspud

In reality, doctors and hospitals cost money. Ration the best health care in favor of those who can pay for it and you get quality care. Ration the money to the hospitals and doctors in favor of everyone getting the same treatment and get lower quality care for all. RE: Canada.

#4 | Posted by STIRSUMUP
In reality, doctors and hospitals cost money. Ration the best health care in favor of those who can pay for it and you get quality care. Ration the money to the hospitals and doctors in favor of everyone getting the same treatment and get lower quality care for all. RE: Canada.
--------------
Bingo

How's that Socialism working out.

Better than yer system.

S'rsly, Canada has lower debt per GDP ratio and healthier economic stats across the board. Nobody's dying or going broke due to a profit based health care system out of control. While still involved in Afghanistan we were never dumb enuff to buy into the rationale fer Iraq. Our water and energy resources are being sold to the US every day. We supply more energy to the US than the Saudis, ya know. Water is the new oil and Canada holds claim to a ridiculous amount of the planets supply. Our drug laws are saner. We recognize same sex marriage. Nobody's tried slamming any airliners into any of our buildings. We don't torture as an instrument of statecraft. We don't over-pay corporate mercenaries to trash our reputation across the globe. There's no housing crisis due to lax regulation and greedy, unscrupulous banks making massive amounts of insane sub-prime loans.

And so on and so forth.

Granted the 5-3 loss to Team USA in Olympic Hockey was a bit of a set back but the fat lady aint sang there yet.

Mark Spud's werds!

I keep hearing how America has horrible healthcare.

Really? Sez who?

Be Well.

Granted the 5-3 loss to Team USA in Olympic Hockey was a bit of a set back but the fat lady aint sang there yet.

That's what scares me. I don't think the US would prevail in a re-match.

It may be all academic though - the Swedes are looking awfully tough, with the ESPN NHL player of the decade leading them and all that.

It may be all academic though - the Swedes are looking awfully tough, with the ESPN NHL player of the decade leading them and all that.

Don't worry about them meatball-slurping, Ikea-buying, long john-wearing Swedes, Dude.

Spud's got it covered.

Don't want to let the cat out of the bag too soon but suffice it to say that Jeff Gillooly is outta stir and looking fer werk!

/Yes, kidding.

Mostly.

Be Well.

I don't know, Spud.

They won it 4 years ago.

It'll take a monumental effort to beat those douchebags.

Nobody's dying or going broke due to a profit based health care system out of control.

#7 | Posted by dethspud

No their just dying because of a non profit based health care system, unless they have the cash to come to the US like this guy did.

Even he knows we have the best possible health care money can buy.
#1 | Posted by STIRSUMUP

Unintentionally, morbidly, weirdly, black-humorish funny.

And profoundly sad.

Even he knows we have the best possible health care money can buy.

So do these guys...

www.incredibleheartcare.com

No their just dying because of a non profit based health care system

No child left behind product?

Lol! You can go to New Delhi if you wish. It's still a profit bases system.

He wants to be fixed BEFORE our nation goes to hell in a handbasket?

Ration the money to the hospitals and doctors in favor of everyone getting the same treatment and get lower quality care for all.

I could have sworn that "everyone getting the same treatment" was a founding principle of this country.

This is the kind of non-event that the America-hating Right will milk for all it's worth. And the dogs will yap... yap... yap.

I guarantee that somewhere right now, some pinheaded, self-defeating blue-collar Republican is coming to the conclusion that because one (rich) Canadian went to Florida for heart surgery, literally everything is perfect with the US "system".

In the end, everyone votes with his feet.

How does that statement sit with all that want our healthcare system to be like England or Canada?

I could have sworn that "everyone getting the same treatment" was a founding principle of this country.

#17 | Posted by ness_gadol

Where in the hell did you read THAT?????

this, of course, is an old story..FIRST broken to you by afkabl2 news..
his comments WERE interesting though...here as we in america are on the brink of getting the same 'indentured servatude' for health care canada has...

In the whole scheme of things, this isn't proof of anything one way or the other, but it sure does seem that the liberals are awfully touchy about it. I wonder why? Could it be that you're so emotionally invested in wanting Healthcare to be "free" that you just can't accept that "free" comes with major problems?

The fact this guy was willing to take the heat for his decision should give you leftwing zeroes pause, but instead it has you stretching for rationalizations.

with all that want our healthcare system to be like England or Canada?

Well most of America would want our healthcare system to improve to be on par with those two.

I wonder how many US citizens died last week wishing they could have heart surgery in the US.

I guarantee that somewhere right now, some pinheaded, self-defeating blue-collar Republican is coming to the conclusion that because one (rich) Canadian went to Florida for heart surgery, literally everything is perfect with the US "system".

#18 | Posted by bellaspapa

The person you speak of originated this thread.

I bet every US citizen who died wishing they could have heart surgery in the US would have settled for heart surgery in Canada. Probably in most other countries too.

The answer to that one is "No".

Be Well.

#2 | Posted by dethspud

Yes, and the Conservatives have the answer.

If only the Socialists would listen...

Well most of America would want our healthcare system to improve to be on par with those two.

#24 | Posted by 726

Didn't you read the article? Didn't you hear what the Canadian Premier said? Pull your head out of your backside and clean out your ears.


I bet every US citizen who died wishing they could have heart surgery in the US would have settled for heart surgery in Canada. Probably in most other countries too.

#28 | Posted by NoGov4Me

Bullshit!

do you have a link?

I think you're MichaelMooring us.

#31 | Posted by Eddie at

You are suggesting that people who die needing heart surgery don't want heart surgery? Really???

What a fucking idiot.

Seriously, I thought "mysterytoy" was fucked up. You're position is that people who need medical care would rather just lay here and die because they can't afford it than get the care they need in a foreign coutry?

People are niot denied health care.

If someone shows up to the hospital and needs heart surgery--they will get it!


#31 | Posted by Eddie at

You are suggesting that people who die needing heart surgery don't want heart surgery? Really???

What a fucking idiot.

#32 | Posted by NoGov4Me

LOL!!!

I knew you were full of shit!

Dude, if you are going to troll, don't make it obvious in your first post!

LOL!!!

#34 | Posted by MURPHY at

That's right, no one in the history of the united states of america has ever died needing any surgery of any kind. You may know someone who it has happened to, I do, it didn't happen though. It's never happened before, not once, it was a figment of our imagination. You read it here.

Now if you are talking about health care in Canada--

Yes--there are likely folks waiting and waiting and waiting to get care for their ailment and die waiting.

Just like this bloat was first told by his doctors.

He's in politics and has money to travel to the US for his heart surgery. So he went to Miami.

But the average person in Canada under the same circumstances who is not in politics and doesn't have the money will wait like the doctors first told this guy and might die waiting.

#33 | Posted by NoGov4Me at 2010-02-24 11:44 AM | Reply | Flag: Extremely Frustrated with His Messiah

Nogov--

I was specific as you were about heart surgery.

Can you stay focused?

#35 | Posted by Eddie at

That's right man, the guy who said people die here needing surgery and likely wish they could have it in Canada is the one who is full of shit...

There's no housing crisis due to lax regulation and greedy, unscrupulous banks making massive amounts of insane sub-prime loans.

#7 | Posted by dethspud

Spud, a correction---the banks didn't make those loans.

#39 | Posted by MURPHY at

I'm focused, you're a god damned idiot.

LOL

I could have sworn that "everyone getting the same treatment" was a founding principle of this country.

#17 | Posted by ness_gadol

I don't care how you twist "all men are created equal", you can't get those two statements to mean the same thing.

When you go tho the gas station, do you get free gas? Or do choose between purchasing regular unleaded or do you spend more for premium?

We have the best because of its structure dethsud. If we "delivered" healthcare as you put it like the EU or Canada -- our system would be as good as the EU's or Canada.

If anyone can explain to me how we could have gotten to where we are (the best in care) by following a path that has lead others to mediocrity, please share.

#40 | Posted by NoGov4Me

Sorry, NoGov. But, you are being simply annoying now.

Are you really trying to make a point?

LOL!!!

You haven't yet.

#46 | Posted by Eddie at

That's right, people who die from lack of health insurance are happy to die. It's the american way. They would hate to go to a foreign country to get the care that would save their life, that would be unamerican. You read it here.

That's right, no one in the history of the united states of america has ever died needing any surgery of any kind. You may know someone who it has happened to, I do, it didn't happen though. It's never happened before, not once, it was a figment of our imagination. You read it here.

#36 | Posted by NoGov4Me

That has to be "stupid of the week" statement.

Are you sugesting no one in Canada has ever died because of the lack of surgery?

Are you sugesting that "free" helthcare will stop all nu-necessary deaths? SHIT!!!!!

No one stopping anyone from going anywhere for health care! You can even go to Cuba for care now if you want to.

What's your beef? The fact that it's not free? Name one thing that's worth having that is free.

I wonder how many US citizens died last week wishing they could have heart surgery in the US.

#26 | Posted by NoGov4Me

I wonder how many US citizens died last week wishing they could have Canadadian healthcare?

"Name one thing that's worth having that is free."

A nice bowel movement.

A nice bowel movement.

#51 | Posted by salamandagator

Yes, but if you needed to you'd be willing to pay for it.lol

#48 | Posted by Sniper at

No you fucking simpleton. What part of it has you confused? Is it the part where threw out this radical idea I have that most people who die would rather not???

The original post was:

I bet every US citizen who died wishing they could have heart surgery in the US would have settled for heart surgery in Canada. Probably in most other countries too.

#28 | Posted by NoGov4Me

What part of that statement is unclear? Which part do you disagree with?

Well most of America would want our healthcare system to improve to be on par with those two.

#24 | Posted by 726 at 2010

maybe in your world of ex drugged out hippies but not in mine...
so got any tidedied shirts left?? just the other day I looked for my bell bottoms and high heeled boots.
ah those were the days


#46 | Posted by Eddie at

That's right, people who die from lack of health insurance are happy to die. It's the american way. They would hate to go to a foreign country to get the care that would save their life, that would be unamerican. You read it here.

#47 | Posted by NoGov4Me

Excuse me, but this is a MichaelMoorism! And since you're slow, I'll explain it! A MichaelMoorism is something that's passed off as a fact but is not actually backed up by fact.

You are Trolling! Do I need to tell you what that means too?

Make your point or STFU!

I want a show of hands. How many people saw Clinton sneek across the border to Canada for his heart problem?

"Name one thing that's worth having that is free."

A nice bowel movement.

#51 | Posted by salamandagator at 2010-02-24 12:09 PM | Reply |

That's not as true as it used to be. Some places charge, especially in Eurostan.

I wonder how many US citizens died last week wishing they could have Canadadian healthcare?

#50 | Posted by Sniper at

Nope, right here, anywhere else on the globe too.

Unless we are talking about Eddie, he would rather die than let some foreigner touch him. That would be unamerican. That guy's motto is ANYTHING for the cause.

Are you sugesting no one in Canada has ever died because of the lack of surgery?

Are you sugesting that "free" helthcare will stop all nu-necessary deaths? SHIT!!!!!

#48 | Posted by Sniper

Sniper, he's inferring that people here die because they don't have health insurance and he's too chicken shit to actually say it, because it's a LIE!

BULLSHIT!!

NoGov! Michael Moore is a LIAR, you fucking dope! You're just too stupid to understand that.

"Some places charge, especially in Eurostan"

So, poop in the street, all the cool kids are doing it.

#55 | Posted by Eddie at

You can call it whatever you want. You are saying that people who die here from lack of health care, and you're out of your fucking mind.

#59 | Posted by Eddie at

I know it man, Michael Moore also think that people who die would rather not die, we are fucking out there man.

#58 | Posted by NoGov4Me

You sound like a very frustrated old Liberal. What a sad state to be in? And to think that you have complete control over this too!

Your point is a strawman.

If you really need an answer If I couldn't get a need a surgery and couldn't get it here... I guess I would do it.

I've never had to think about it, however. The situation is so remote, why waste the time answering you other than to fulfill your trolling fantasies.

Here's the thing. How do you put a price on your life? If it cost 40K to get an operation and only 20K in Canada, I'd do it here and pay them 20K and then negotiate the balance.

#63 | Posted by Eddie at

You got me man, everyone who dies would rather die than live.

I am in fact full of shit when I say that a lot of people who die would rather live, even if it means going to Canada or Cuba or Great Britian or South Africa and having heart surgery. 100% "strawman", whatever the fuck that means. You got me.


#55 | Posted by Eddie at

You can call it whatever you want. You are saying that people who die here from lack of health care, and you're out of your fucking mind.

#61 | Posted by NoGov4Me

LOL!!!

Nice try!

NoGov, my trolling friend, I'll say it really slowly for you.

In order to consider your strawman, you have to assume that people without health insurance would not get medical care in the US.

This does not happen!

And you have to prove that first, Einstein.

I have to give you credit for trying though. LOL!!!

Unless we are talking about Eddie, he would rather die than let some foreigner touch him. That would be unamerican. That guy's motto is ANYTHING for the cause.

#58 | Posted by NoGov4Me

That is not the issue.

First--the US has the best HC in the world. That is why we have Canadians coming here because they can't get the treatment in Canada.

Second--Canada doesn't take people for surgery unless they have waited on the list.

Third--if YOU wanted treatment in Canada--get on the list and wait. Why would they put you ahead of someone on the list who is a citizen.

And 4th--it won't be free--you are not a Canadian citizen and will have to PAY for your treatment in Canada.

#65 | Posted by Eddie at

Try to keep up, I have admitted that you are correct and that people are glad to die here witout healthcare, they love doing it. I mean some ignorant cocksucker who calls himself "Eddie" on the internet says so, it has to be true. LOL!!!

Nogov--

You keep pointing to heart surgery.

The US is the best at heart surgery. People come here for heart surgery.

Now if you are talking about a new drug treatment for cancer or such and the treatment was only available in another country--people would go there for treatment.

I have admitted that you are correct and that people are glad to die here witout healthcare, they love doing it. Nogov

You seem to be the one saying this over and over.

Did Eddie say this??

No one wants to die--they get health care. It's the payment part that grabs folks. Either have insurance or not. If you are uninsured, the state may pay for it. You can make payments. Some folks go bk.

But they got the heart surgery!

Try to keep up, I have admitted that you are correct and that people are glad to die here witout healthcare, they love doing it. I mean some ignorant cocksucker who calls himself "Eddie" on the internet says so, it has to be true. LOL!!!

#67 | Posted by NoGov4Me

NoGov, it's not a good idea to attack someone personally when they prove you wrong. Are you a child?

Sorry I don't play by your rules.

This time NoGov, how about you actually think before posting...

Now if you are talking about a new drug treatment for cancer or such and the treatment was only available in another country--people would go there for treatment.

-------

bingo.

people from all over the world with lots of cash go to sweden for some specialties too.

"Structure

For much of the last fifty years Sweden has had a heavily socialized health care system. Almost all of the funding comes from government revenue, and most aspects of the health care system, such as hospitals, primary care centers and prescription drugs, are controlled by the government. Doctors could still have a private practice, although by the 1960s about 80 percent of doctors worked in government-run hospitals." www.nationalcenter.org

another bullshit 'issue' attempted by the corporate cock suckering marketing feces scumbag monkey fuckers.

#68 | Posted by MURPHY at

I do keep pointing at heart surgery, heart surgery is kind of what the article was about.

What part of "a person who is dying from this, that or the other would rather not die in most cases" do you disagree with?

This guy was able to come here for heart surgery, he did, good for him. You don't think a person here would rather go to Canada for life saving heart surgery if they could than die? I think they would, I'm pretty sure that they would rather go anywhere on the globe for the surgery than die.

That took a lot of patience, I'm not sure if I can break it down any better. Call it a "strawman" argument if you'd like, but I think most people who die would rather not. It's controversial, I know. It really is an edgy theory.

#71 | Posted by Eddie at

For fuck's sake Eddie, do I have to cancel my policy and then slit my wrists to prove to you that dying without insurance is the patriotic thing to do?

my daughter is currently in nursing school and of course universal healthcare is a topic of discussion, and of course most of the students are raging libbys until they discussed how cost control equals salary control. funny that they could not understand that...

"until they discussed how cost control equals salary control."

That is a bull shit talking point.
In the VA system nurses earn good money.
In hospitals that accept Medicare nurses earn good money.
Perhaps they should discuss the FACT that there would be more dollars for health care if insurance companies didn't get to take their cut first.

another bullshit 'issue' attempted by the corporate cock suckering marketing feces scumbag monkey fuckers.

#72 | Posted by Shawn at 2010-02-24 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag: Best Insult Flag


#71 | Posted by Eddie at

For fuck's sake Eddie, do I have to cancel my policy and then slit my wrists to prove to you that dying without insurance is the patriotic thing to do?

#74 | Posted by NoGov4Me

All you have to do at this point is to STFU and admit you're wrong.

Other than that, there's not much you can do.

You didn't have a point.

Oh! You could get a clue.


"until they discussed how cost control equals salary control."

That is a bull shit talking point.
In the VA system nurses earn good money.
In hospitals that accept Medicare nurses earn good money.
Perhaps they should discuss the FACT that there would be more dollars for health care if insurance companies didn't get to take their cut first.

#76 | Posted by danni

Uh... bullshit Danni.

The VA has to compete with private hospitals and the pay IS lower at the VA.

If there are no private providers, i.e. competition, government pay will go down.

NoGov, my trolling friend, I'll say it really slowly for you.

In order to consider your strawman, you have to assume that people without health insurance would not get medical care in the US.

This does not happen!

#65 | Posted by Eddie

Edd, you left off the part that they would have to be a citizen of Canada to get it FREE and on the list to get the work done in maybe a year. You know, Clinton was on their list for his little problem last week but it wasn't his turn. Go figure.

The best summation of the situation I found in the following paragraph:


When it comes down to it, Williams can afford to go anywhere he wants for whatever medical procedures he needs or wants. So can every other wealthy person in Canada, if they so choose. But the fact that wealthy people are able to shop around for medical procedures is not de facto proof that our universal health-care system is broken.

www.thespec.com

Turns out that the expert on the procedure he had done was a lot closer to home:


Dr. Thierry Mesana, the University of Ottawa Heart Institute's chief of cardiac surgery, is the recognized expert in mitral valve reconstruction. Dr. Mesana's work was featured in the December 2009 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

www.ottawacitizen.com

Maybe he went to Florida because it was close to the condo he bought there:


According to Sarasota County deed records, Mr. Williams bought a condo at Summer Cove on Siesta Key last June for $1,480,000, with a $10,360 tax transfer.

The bottom line is that if you're rich you can get the best (or in this case second best) treatment anywhere in the world. This is not news. What is notable is all these dittoheads believing that they could afford the kind of treatment Williams got if they needed it.

Additional interesting article:

www2.macleans.ca

#3 | POSTED BY 90C2CAB

Ah, the old hockey metaphor...

#5 | POSTED BY STENWILLY

Followed by the equally strange car buying metaphor.

So, poop in the street, all the cool kids are doing it.

#60 | Posted by salamandagator at 2010-02-24 12:17 PM

Thanks, I could have saved a few bucks in dry cleaning bills had you suggested that prior to now...

#81 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY

The MichaelMoore fever is high today!

If your support for ObamaCare loses traction, through out a bunch of unfounded MichaelMoorish arguments and say, oh he's rich. That explains EVERYTHING!

LOL!!

Why did you even post?

The bottom line is that if you're rich you can get the best (or in this case second best) treatment anywhere in the world.
#81 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY

Why did you say second best?

Guess what? You can't make shit up when you don't have anything to support your argument.


If your support for ObamaCare loses traction, through out a bunch of unfounded MichaelMoorish arguments and say, oh he's rich. That explains EVERYTHING!

LOL!!

Why did you even post?

#85 | Posted by Eddie

Read the articles before posting your blabbering, jackass.


Why did you say second best?

Guess what? You can't make shit up when you don't have anything to support your argument.

#86 | Posted by Eddie

Because I did my research. Did you?


Dr. Thierry Mesana, the University of Ottawa Heart Institute's chief of cardiac surgery, is the recognized expert in mitral valve reconstruction. Dr. Mesana's work was featured in the December 2009 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

www.ottawacitizen.com

How stupid can you get? The link to the article was in my post.

#84
reminds me

A blonde drops off a shirt at the cleaners

On the way out the door, the lady at the counter says

"Come Again"

The blonde says "no it's mustard this time you nosy bitch"!

In order to consider your strawman, you have to assume that people without health insurance would not get medical care in the US.

This does not happen!

And you have to prove that first, Einstein.

I have to give you credit for trying though. LOL!!!

#65 | Posted by Eddie

Right! Spouting debunked Right wing talking points again EDDIE?

How can you be so dumb and still be able to use a computer?

An American dies every 12 minutes due to lack of Health Care.

"The uninsured have a higher risk of death when compared to the privately insured, even after taking into account socioeconomics, health behaviors, and baseline health," said lead author Andrew Wilper, M.D., who currently teaches at the University of Washington School of Medicine. "We doctors have many new ways to prevent deaths from hypertension, diabetes, and heart disease but only if patients can get into our offices and afford their medications."

Just because someone can get "treatment" in an ER does not mean they will live.

Observers estimate that anywhere from one to 18 percent of Americans are denied health insurance because of pre-existing health conditions. These conditions can range from heart disease to high cholesterol to yeast infections to being too skinny. A few examples of Americans who were denied health care:

Texas resident Shirley Lowe was denied health care because her breast cancer was diagnosed at a medical center rather than a clinic receiving federal cancer-research funds.

New Orleans bus driver Emanuel Wilson was denied health care when the government refused to pay for his chemotherapy because he had had a job that had provided insurance a job he lost after Hurricane Katrina.

Thousands of 9/11 workers who worked at Ground Zero were denied health care when the federal government approved woefully inadequate funds to address the permanent health problems, such as sinusitis and asthma, associated with work at the site.

As Michael Moore's film "Sicko" showed so clearly, millions more Americans who have health insurance are denied the care they need due to insurers' "cost-cutting strategies."

UN ranks Italy's healthcare better than the US. I don't hear the ?UN bitching about some delivery system. Perhaps they should go get a job with benefits than they would have healthcare

#5 | Posted by StenWilly

Ok been to Italy, seen more then one of their hospitals, no thanks. Nice 'n filthy. Nasty places. They may do some things right but I'll take our screwed up system over that one when my life is on the line.

That said. It seems like a lot of denying is going on here. The guy is a politician. He has more money then probably 75% of his constituents. He voted with his feet that Canada's system could not provide him with the treatment he needed.

Our system is broke, but for everyone pointing at socialized solutions - they don't have it right either. We still attract many of the best Doctors from around the world because they can make a good living and have opportunities and the most of the latest in treatments here. Why do so many foreign officials come here for treatment???? It's not just this guy.

We have to figure out a balance of providing health care to all while maintaining a capitalistic system. Removing some of the middle men, setting up medical boards to judge cases and eliminating bad practitioners would be a good start. Capping profitability for insurance carriers and drug companies would also help. Drug companies, insurance companies and lawyers are the 3 main problems in our system.

Mandating that I need to BUY insurance from a corporation and be taxed on it when my provider doesn't provide it because you "think" I can afford to do so is total bullshit. Even if it is subsidized it is still bullshit. I am fortunate I do have coverage and don't make $10-$15/hour. There should be a government option and it should operate as a non-profit and be an entity that also operates as a corporation and not a part of government. That I grant you would be tricky. I am not saying it shouldn't have a set of mandates though.

There should also be a Darwin factor. If you choose not to maintain your health then you choose to pay more. If you have genetic problems and/or do what you should to maintain your health then you pay the same as everyone else. i.e. You are grossly obese because you eat at McD's everyday and don't exercise, it's your own fault and not everyone should have to pay for your lifestyle choice.

Bottom line unrestrained capitalism is not an answer nor is socialism. There has to be a happy middle ground that will serve society as a whole.


That said. It seems like a lot of denying is going on here. The guy is a politician. He has more money then probably 75% of his constituents. He voted with his feet that Canada's system could not provide him with the treatment he needed.

#91 | Posted by GalaxiePete

This is not true Pete, the expert on the type of surgery this guy had done is the University of Ottawa Heart Institute's chief of cardiac surgery. Williams alone knows why he went to Florida to have it done. And BTW, I'm sure he's richer than at least 95% of his constituents, judging from the posh new condo he bought in Florida (coincidentally).

How stupid can you get? The link to the article was in my post.

#88 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY

Not very! LOL!!!!!

I read the article, you idiot! They are defending Canadian medicine. Anyone can see that.

I thought that NoGov was the idiot of the day, then you come along.

I guess I should allow you losers to rant about your failed idea and not confront you with common sense.

You're just too frustrated to get it right now.

Time will heal.

Just when I thought it couldn't get any dumber!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Fucking Classic! (wiping tear)

Right! Spouting debunked Right wing talking points again EDDIE?
#90 | Posted by donnerboy

Then the moron pastes something referring to Sicko!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Donner, come on. You are being stupid just to discredit Libs everywhere, right?

#90 | Posted by donnerboy

How many are denied Healthcare? 40 million!??!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


I guess I should allow you losers to rant about your failed idea and not confront you with common sense.

You're just too frustrated to get it right now.

Time will heal.

#94 | Posted by Eddie

Your idea of 'common sense' is all you have. You have nothing to defend any of your statements or assertions.
You add nothing to this site except to kiss the asses of those who post things you agree with or insult those who post things you disagree with. You just don't have the courage to argue on the facts. You're a silly coward.

"Even he knows we have the best possible health care money can buy."

#1 | Posted by STIRSUMUP

No shit? Who's got the money????????

You have nothing to defend any of your statements or assertions.

#98 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY

Yes, I do. The links you posted!

The more you rant, the dumber you look.

You just don't have the courage to argue on the facts.

#98 | Posted by DARTHCHENEY

AGAIN! You can't make shit up and call it a fact!

This is what we call a MichaelMoorism.

It may seem true to the lazy and dumb, but it's not true.

So, stop patting yourself on the back that you think you came up with a way to prove that ObamaCare is the way to go by making shit up.

Try this

www.businessandmedia.org

New Orleans bus driver Emanuel Wilson was denied health care when the government refused to pay for his chemotherapy because he had had a job that had provided insurance a job he lost after Hurricane Katrina.

#90 | Posted by donnerboy

So he showed up to the hospital and they said what? "Get out of here, you limo driver!"

Why was he denied Health Care?

As I say DarthCheney, time will heal...


UN ranks Italy's healthcare better than the US. I don't hear the ?UN bitching about some delivery system. Perhaps they should go get a job with benefits than they would have healthcare

#5 | Posted by StenWilly

Ok been to Italy, seen more then one of their hospitals, no thanks. Nice 'n filthy. Nasty places. They may do some things right but I'll take our screwed up system over that one when my life is on the line.

#91 | Posted by GalaxiePete

I'm beginning to see where the confusion is.

Cheaper is better!

That's it. It's so plain!

I was talking to this guy at a party about 2 months ago. The subject turned to MichaelMoore's Sicko. He went on and on quoting things out of the movie and getting more and more indignant about Americans. Then I told him that just about all of the movie is not backed up with facts, it's all a big lie, pretty much. He told me, bullshit and went on to try and explain to me pretty much how Donnerboy did and a few directions led him into himself seeing that there are no facts backing it up, that when you actually understand the facts, it's all a big lie.

He then began to defend the Canadian system and the European systems as being better.

I asked him why they are better.

He said, "Because they're cheaper"

LOL!!!

But, the care you get is less too, right?

Right? Hello?


Our system is broke, but for everyone pointing at socialized solutions - they don't have it right either.

#91 | Posted by GalaxiePete

That's right. All it's doing is moving the dysfunction of the Corporatized health care to the government.

With obamacare, if the reverse were true and you went to Canada you would be heavily fined and probably thrown into the pokey.

I went to see my doc about a vasectomy last week..he gave me a referral to a good surgeon....I saw this man yesterday...he asked when I wanted it done..told him I was off work now so anytime would be good.
Hospital called me today and confirmed a date for the procedure....cost to me for this voluntary surgery...
0...zip..nadda....goose egg...gotta love being Canadian!
How much down there to get it done?...just curious.

Ya jub. It was free!!! Are you realy that stupid?

Where will the Canadians go if we end up adopting their system?

"But, the care you get is less too, right?

Right? Hello?"

"There is no question that restriction of supply with sub-optimal access to services has contributed to the lower cost of health care in Canada."

Robert S. Bell, M.D.
President and CEO
University Health Network
Toronto

"online.wsj.com"

Where will the Canadians go if we end up adopting their system?

#111 | Posted by madbomber at 2010-02-24 11:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

I have an idea, dude. Go to the nearest conservative Canadian or English politician and tell them of your brilliant idea of running on a platform of abolishing their health care system and replacing it with the current US model. They will laugh in your face, and if you persist they will most likely call security to escort you out of the building.

I guess it all depends upon whether or not they have prostate cancer as both countries survival rates are worse than americas.

America has a slightly higher rate of cancer survival in both breast and prostate cancer than Canada.

Cuba is actually number one for breast cancer survival.

Trouble with the American health care system is that too many people simply can't afford to avail themselves of the services.

In Canada if yer diagnosed with Cancer you go in for treatment no matter wot.

In the US? Not so much.

An estimated 45,000 Americans die each year because they lack health insurance.

That don't happen in Canada or the UK.

So yer point is a non point.

Nobody in Canada or the UK wants to switch to a socially Darwinistic, profit-driven, corporately corrupted American system.

Cos although yer Health Care is among the best in the world the system that delivers it is an unfunny joke.

K?

Be Well.

"An estimated 45,000 Americans die each year because they lack health insurance."

Stop lying.
#116 | Posted by StenWilly

If you can effectively and convincingly refute the "Health Insurance and Mortality in US Adults" 2009 study (pnhp.org) by appealing to accurate information, then, by all means, please do so.

Then again, StenWilly, seeing as how you clearly don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about, you might simply opt for simply shutting the fuck up.

Equating documented preventable deaths due to lack of insurance with a completely fabricated number of Americans accidentally dying with six packs in their hands? You want to be taken seriously? Really?

Damn you are one funny poster!

I guess that's a better refutation of the study than "stop lying."

BTW, when you're backed into a corner, look like an idiot, and you scream "your ilk" and "six year old in a sandbox" you've accomplished the self-retort.

Your ilk typical rebuttal is to shout shut up at the top of your lungs and name call like a six year old in a sandbox.

I really like the "Cuba" reference, as if Americans could go. I know, let's look at how many Americans go to Mexico for treatment:

... a recent study by the UCLA Center for Health Policy Research estimated that nearly 1 million people from California alone seek medical, dental or prescription services in Mexico each year...

"I'm very lucky to live near enough to Mexico to get good healthcare at a reasonable price," he added.

www.reuters.com

Oops. Another study. Damn those pesky facts and studies. They do get in the way of knowing exactly what you're talking about, don't they?

People seem to forget that many Americans travel to places like India for medical procedures that they can't afford to have done in the US. It has happened so much that they have coined a term for it: Medical Tourism. In fact, because the expense is so much less, some medical insurance carriers are considering covering the procedures.

Of course it is cheaper, but so is their standard of living. My wife had some medical attention in Mexico last year while on vacation. To us it was cheap, but when you pro-rate it it would be very expensive to Mexicans. Looking at it that way, would these procedures be as inexpensive for Indians?

STENWILLY

Did you read the article or just the headline? True 1 million people from California seek treatment in Mexico, but half of those people are Mexicans who return home for treatment. The other largest group is Californians who travel to Mexico to get prescription drugs that are not available in the US because it takes the government (FDA) 10-15 years and $1 billion to approve a new drug. The last thing we need is to give the government more control.

We need more liberty, not more government.

Is treatment in Mexico cheaper? Sure, but that is not how I decide when and where to treat my family. I am sure with some effort, I could find a cheap doctor or dentist in the US, too. Thanks, but no thanks.

An estimated 45,000 Americans die each year because they lack health insurance.

That don't happen in Canada or the UK. - Dethspud..

No they die waiting in line...

Canada-wide, the total number of procedures for
which people were waiting was 1,094,264. At any
given time, 3.52% of Canadianssick
Canadianswere waiting.

In Ontario, nearly 80% of its
regional communities are listed by the provincial
government as being "underserviced" due to physician
shortages.

Results based on 2001-2002 information are:
total waiting time between referral from a general
practitioner (GP) and treatment was 16.5 weeks;
Saskatchewan had the longest wait at 32.6 weeks;
and
wait to see a radiation oncologist was 8.5 weeks
(an eternity for those with a brain tumor or
Hodgkin's Disease.)12
Diagnostic waits were:
5.2 weeks for a CT Scan;
12.4 weeks for an MRI; and
3.2 weeks for an ultrasound

In some instances, patients die waiting as they
become too ill to tolerate a procedure. Patients
needing hip replacement often end up non-ambulatory
while waiting an average of 20 weeks for the
procedureafter waiting 13 already just to see the
specialist. Couple this with waiting to get diagnostic
scans and then waiting for the radiologist to read them,
and you have just arrived in Clevelandthe hip
replacement capital of Canada.
ff.org

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