Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Tuesday, February 23, 2010

A CIA memo cited by former Vice President Dick Cheney as justifying the effectiveness of waterboarding contained "plainly inaccurate information" that undermined its conclusions, according to Justice Department investigators, Newsweek's Michael Isikiff is reporting. The memo "significantly misstated the timing of the capture of one Al Qaeda suspect in order to make a claim that seems to have been patently false."

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This also appears to vindicate claims by former FBI interrogator Ali Soufan, who said he obtained all the crucial info from Zubaydah through non-enhanced methods. And as Adam Serwer points out, it seems to blow a hole in former Bush speechwriter Marc Thiessen's claims about Soufan and about the efficacy of waterboarding in general.

A better link:

blog.newsweek.com

The above link has links to the actual report.

Cheney not only was either grossly mistaken, completely destroying his credibility with the timeline, but, as suspected and called out on Drudge.com before, Thiessen is complicit in propagating the fiction of torture.

Cheney not only was either grossly mistaken, or lying...

"Cheney not only was either grossly mistaken, or lying..."

Ooh! Ooh! Call on me...I know the answer to this one!!!

Cheney inaccurate? I'm in-fucking-credulous.

Cheney was convinced the contents of this memo demonstrated "torture werks"?

From what we currently know, the memo supports his contention only if you buy the weird notion that information obtained through torture months after Jose Padilla's arrest led to his arrest.

In other words, the give-up of a tortured prisoner caused the arrest of Padilla months before the prisoner was tortured.

Huh?

This Alice-through-the-looking-
glass reasoning is of a piece with that used by the Bush White House when it claimed, "In 2002, we broke up [italics added] a plot by KSM [Klahd Sheikh Muhammad] to hijack an airplane and fly it into the talest building on the West Coast [refering to L.A.'s Liberty Tower]." (See "Why al-Qaida's Plot to Bomb L.A'.s Liberty Tower Didn't Warrant Torture" at
www.slate.com)

That claim flies, so to speak, only if you conclude that the Liberty Tower plot was derailed in 2002 by using information tortured out of a prisoner who wasn't captured until the following year.

What that claim and Cheney's have in common is their very foundation, which, if valid, is truly earthshaking. For Cheney to be on target here -- and for the earlier White House claim about the Libert Tower plot to be accepted -- for the "torture werks" assertion to stand, we are required to believe that somehow -- don't bothering asking me, because I don't know and can't imagine how it was done -- Cheney and other "torture werks" aficianados are privy to information that leads them to believe -- believe? hell, know -- that the US government has discovered a way to bend the laws of time, so that the past lies in the future and the future has been shifted to the past.

That or Cheney et. al. are (a) knowingly lying or (b) very possibly insane.

Cheney lied about his "torture werks" claim?

No shiat, Sherlock.

Cheney hasn't stopped lying for years.

It's amazing anybody gives any credence wotsoever to anything that lying sack of shiat sez.

Torture not only doesn't work but the blowback from utilizing it as an instrument of statecraft is counter-productive to the extreme.

Be Well.

Go to the Cheney chest pain thread and see all the "independants' and repubs who swim in Cheney's toilet bowl of lies.
Hey look, Wisgod is floating on a Cheney turd and waving to Murph and the others to join him.

en.wikipedia.org

Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi (d. May 10, 2009) (ابن الشیخ الليبی) was a Libyan paramilitary trainer for Al-Qaeda. After being captured and interrogated by the American and Egyptian forces, the information he gave under torture[1] was cited by the George W. Bush Administration in the months preceding the 2003 invasion of Iraq as evidence of a connection between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda.

The English language edition of the Libyan newspaper Ennahar reported on May 10, 2009, that Al Libi had been repatriated to Libyan custody in 2006, and had recently committed suicide.

Why would the bush administration allow such a high value target to be moved out of their hands? Isn't there a distinct possibility that al libbi retained some vital information over some potential future attack? Why then would the bush administration dump him in Libya beyond our control?

Where are all the "torture works" cheerleaders when Cheney's claim finally collapses under the leaden weight of its own incongruity?

Oh, right, scampering around pretending they didn't hear.

Cowards.

Cowards.

#9 | POSTED BY DOC_SARVIS AT 2010-02-23 04:44 PM

The Bushling's administration.

"plainly inaccurate information"

Aka anything the Bush Administration said.

the information he gave under torture[1] was cited by the George W. Bush Administration in the months preceding the 2003 invasion of Iraq as evidence of a connection between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda.

The connection must be hidden in one of those barrels of WMD or on one of Saddam's ICBMs.

A slice of Nigerian yellowcake, anyone?

torturing is wrong and illegal. however, anyone who has had their lunch money stolen by a bully would have to admit that it does, to some degree, work.

Only if you get your lunch back, Somoco.

Cheney lied is not news.

Dog bites man is not news.

Cheney bites man is news.

Sorry to burst some of your bubbles--but Isikiff missed the boat.

corner.nationalreview.com

From the link--

Soufan and Zubaydah [Marc Thiessen]

The Left is now attempting to use the Justice Department's Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR) report to discredit the effectiveness of the CIA interrogation program. Their latest argument is that the OPR memos vindicate Ali Soufan's claims that he got the information on Jose Padilla before EITs were employed, and they cite what appears to be a typo in the CIA's "effectiveness" memo which states that Padilla was arrested in "May 2003."

A-ha, says Newsweek, citing the OPR report:

"In fact, Padilla was arrested in May 2002, not 2003. . . . The information [leading] to the arrest of Padilla' could not have been obtained through the authorized use of EITs." (The use of enhanced interrogations was not authorized until Aug. 1, 2002 and Zubaydah was not waterboarded until later that month.)

Unfortunately for the critics, the OPR memos do not vindicate Soufan in the least. Quite the opposite. On page 33 (footnote 33), the final OPR report states: "Although CIA and DOJ witnesses told us that the CIA was waiting for DOJ approval before initiating the use of the EITs, the DOJ [Inspector General's] Report indicates that such techniques may have been used on Abu Zubaydah before the CIA received oral or written approval from OLC."

And what does the DOJ Inspector General's Report say? In the October 2009 Report [PDF], the other agent involved in Abu Zubaydah's interrogation (referred to by the alias "Agent Gibson") explains that it was the CIA not Soufan that got the information on Padilla, and did so after applying the first coercive techniques.

According to the Report, before the CIA took over Zubaydah's interrogation Agent Gibson got Zubaydah to identify "a photography of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as Muktar,' the mastermind of the September 11 attacks" using non-coercive techniques. (This has never been in dispute.)

After this, the Report states, "Within a few days, CIA personnel assumed control over the interviews, although they asked Gibson and Thomas [Note: "Thomas" is an alias for Soufan] to observe and assist. . . . Thomas described for the OIG the techniques that he saw the CIA interrogators use on Zubaydah after they took control of the interrogation. [REDACTED]. Thomas said he raised objections to these techniques to the CIA and told the CIA it was borderline torture.'"

While the details are redacted, this begs the question: If some form of EITs were not in use at this point, what precisely was Soufan objecting to? The CIA's approach to rapport-building?

And then--

The DOJ Report continues: "During his interview with OIG, Gibson did not express as much concern about the techniques used as Thomas did. Gibson stated, however, that during the period he was working with the CIA, the CIA shaved Zubaydah's head, sometimes deprived Zubaydah of clothing, and kept the temperatures in his cell cold. [REDACTED]. Gibson said that the CIA personnel assured him that the procedures being used on Zubaydah had been approved at the highest levels' and Gibson would not get in any trouble. Gibson stated that during the CIA interrogations Zubaydah gave up' Jose Padilla and indentified several targets for future al-Qaeda attacks, including the Brooklyn Bridge and the Statue of Liberty [emphasis added]."

So according to Soufan's own partner, the information on Padilla a) was obtained by the CIA, not Soufan; and b) after the CIA began to apply the coercive techniques.

Thomas/Soufan left in protest over the CIA techniques (which supposedly were not yet in use) around May 2002. But his partner, Agent Gibson, stayed behind and continued to work with the CIA.

According to the Report: "Gibson said he remained at the CIA facility until some time in early June 2002, several weeks after Thomas left, and that he continued to work with the CIA and participate in interviewing Zubaydah. . . . Gibson stated that . . . he did not have a moral objection' to being present for the CIA techniques because the CIA was acting professionally and Gibson himself had undergone comparable harsh interrogation techniques as part of U.S. Army Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape (SERE) training."

So Soufan's own partner disagreed with him on the need for, and the morality of, enhanced interrogation.

And even the Washington Post, in July 2009, reported that the information on Padilla came after coercive techniques were employed. The Post quotes a former U.S. official declaring: "In two different bits, after sleep deprivation, is when Abu Zubaida gave clues about who Padilla might be. . . . When that was put together with other CIA sources, they were able to identify who he was. . . . The cables will not show that the FBI just asked friendly questions and got information about Padilla."

The bottom line: According to the Justice Department Inspector General, his own partner, and the Washington Post, Soufan's claims are flat wrong.

Here's to a speedy recovery for Cheney after his mild heart attack.

Love to see him run for POTUS in 2012.
We need adults back in the White House and get rid of the Maxist amatuer hour we're now witnessing

Yes. I too would love to see him run for POTUS in 2012. Him or Palin. Either one. They both represent the intelligence and honesty of the GOP. Both would make wonderful candidates.

Yes. I too would love to see him run for POTUS in 2012. Him or Palin. Either one. They both represent the intelligence and honesty of the GOP. Both would make wonderful candidates.

#19 | Posted by moder8

A Cheney/Palin ticket would be unbeatable!

A Cheney/Palin ticket would be unbeatable!

#20 | Posted by Mutant9

A Hurdy-Gurdy man and his trained monkey could beat those dill-holes.

"A Cheney/Palin ticket would be unbeatable!"

It would intersting if the dems matched that ticket with Reid/Pelosi.

"A Cheney/Palin ticket would be unbeatable!"

It would intersting if the dems matched that ticket with Reid/Pelosi.

To keep it fair, the Dems would have to run Schiavo/Trig.

To keep it fair, the Dems would have to run Schiavo/Trig.

#23 | Posted by northguy3 at 2010-02-23 08:24 PM

I guess you are right. Reid/Pelosi couldn't win a one ticket race. Yet they lead both Houses of Congress.

To keep it fair, the Dems would have to run Schiavo/Trig.

They did in 2004.

It looks like the Republicans will do that in 2012.

can you use enhanced interrogation techniques on a heart attack?

not if the carotid artery doesn't get the memo!!!

It looks like the Republicans will do that in 2012.

If their ticket has Palin on it then I agree.

#20 | POSTED BY MUTANT9
"A Cheney/Palin ticket would be unbeatable!"

It would certainly get Wyoming's 3 electoral votes.
Where the other 267 are going to come from, however....

Should any well informed person be surprised?

I just watched a video on water boarding. Torture, horrible I tell ya, just horrible.

content1.clipmarks.com

A slice of Nigerian yellowcake, anyone?

A corner piece, please. I loves me some icing.

and get rid of the Maxist amatuer hour
#18 | Posted by Docsmooth
Yeah! Where's the real Peter Max (Finkelstein) when you need him, eh, Smoothie?

[Marc Thiessen]
#16 | Posted by MURPHY

As in Marc "Liberty 'We Knew About It Before We Knew About It' Tower" Thiessen?
Absolutley, positively, unremittingly ROTFLMAO!!!

"Torture, horrible I tell ya, just horrible."

One word: Mancow.

www.huffingtonpost.com

The Libtards go right after this like lemmings after reading the on it's way down the drain Newsweek story but after the story is shown to be wrong(what a surprise) they shift right into Cheney and Palin bashing (another surprise)

God, I hope he lives long enough to be brought before a war crimes tribunal...

Anything cited by the gutless weasel Cheney is suspect.

A Republican lied.

In other news, the sun it still approximatly 93 million miles away from the earth and as of 9 minutes ago was still shining.

"Cheney hasn't stopped lying for years."

And he will never stop. He has muddied the waters so badly he knows he will be dead long before the truth ever gets sorted out.

*Delay* *obfuscate* *confuse* *muddle* *obscure* *misinform* *deny* *distort* or if all else fails... *LIE*.

Cheney proves that these are words to live by for the Republican Party.

stop crying, why do you think obama let the #2 taliwhacker remain in foreign custody.... so they could ask him nicely...look this baffoon has fucked up so much on this issue he is learning albeit slowly that enhanced question asking is working....


"Cheney not only was either grossly mistaken, or lying..."

Ooh! Ooh! Call on me...I know the answer to this one!!!

#3 | Posted by Danforth

Who the fuck cares? Really! Who the fuck really cares about Cheney except the fucking political hacks!

I DO care that the Obama/Reid/Pelosi machine is being openly dishonest!

a crime is a crime is a crime!

Cheney proves that these are words to live by for the Republican Party.

#41 | Posted by donnerboy

FUCK! Are you kidding?

And it's ok for the Democrats to do it?

Have you lost your mind?

People who live in glass houses....

"Who the fuck really cares about Cheney except the fucking political hacks!"

I know the answer to that one too:

Anyone who's paying attention and paying taxes.

I just watched a video on water boarding. Torture, horrible I tell ya, just horrible.
content1.clipmarks.com
#32 | Posted by KBM at 2010-02-23 11:07 PM

And yet somehow during the years of "walling", "pressure positioning", "sensory deprivation" their organs become bruised, lacerated, punctured/ruptured, and it is rumored some are even removed? How does that happen so often in Gitmo? Are the medical staff from an Israeli prison?:/

But Hayden said many who oppose the harsh techniques used by interrogations "want to be able to say, 'I don't want my nation doing this,' which is a purely honorable position, 'and they didn't work anyway.' That back half of the sentence isn't true. The facts of the case are that the use of these techniques against these terrorists made us safer. It really did work."

"There will be more revelations. There will be more commissions. There will be more investigations," he said. "And this to an agency, again, I repeat, that is at war and is on the front lines defending America."

LINKY.

Why ask the same questions and produce the same results? After 183 "attempts" at interrogation? Did Kalid Sheik Mohammad have his nasal passages altered? Was he medically experimented with? We know they kept the shock vest on him at all times during his one court appearance - would that be so that people wouldn't notice his new speech impediments?

We now know that detainees were transported to and executed at "black sites" on the island and coincidentally the videoed interrogations have also been disappeared. Even the participating "interrogators" are not available. I highly doubt there will ever be any medical examination of Kalid's body made public, or if they examined the nasal passages - the main entry point of the water into the face. 183 "attempts" must have shown significant mutation, deterioration or an otherwise purposeful medical explanation.

Specific politicians and supporters of torture were saying that the detainment of these "terrorists" within the United States is "too dangerous". I wonder how many people really felt that Gitmo was barely able to contain these dangerous villains and that bringing them into the United States would potentially draw us further into their criminal masterminded plot? The United States military took severe efforts to not only soften their prisoners, but to also maintain the blanket of secrecy regarding the entire rendition/torture affair. From the moment that Red Cross was denied access to Gitmo we collectively knew they were torturing those people. Having no other evidence at the time it still seems remarkably intuitive - because it has also turned out to be the truth.

Then you read stories like the following and question the entire scenario:

None of them is mistreated, nor is anyone tortured, he said.

Instead, Gifford said, the prisoners are well-fed and have access to a variety of recreational activities.

"They can play soccer or basketball," Gifford said, and prisoners can
also listen to their own native music.

The detainees have access to a full library, and they can watch videotapes, in particular those of professional games played overseas, he noted.

The prisoners each receive a copy of the Quran, and they are free to recite daily prayers without interference.

And prisoners are allowed to communicate with their families.

Beyond creature comforts, Gifford said, prisoners awaiting trials are afforded the full protection of their legal rights, sometimes exceeding what is offered in U.S. civilian courts.

For instance, he said, each prisoner has all the evidence against him, including classified materials, at his disposal. Prisoners are also provided defense attorneys.

Their cases are heard by a jury of 12 military officers "who are highly educated and take their (jury) oaths quite seriously," Gifford said.

Those who are convicted have a four-step appeal process, including an appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court, he said.

Gifford also noted that the trials are open to the press.

So far only a couple of trials have taken place at Guantanamo, but 20 more are planned soon.

At present, the bulk of the 270 prisoners held at Guantanamo are combatants captured in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

However, other prisoners held there, according to Gifford, include terror suspects linked to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, those suspected in U.S. Embassy bombings in Africa, and those suspected in the attack on the USS Cole, one of whom has been charged in that crime.

Gifford noted that three dozen detainees who have been released from Guantanamo have already "popped up" in the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq.

LINKY.

So let's get this straight: Moron named Murphy sites a CIA/DOJ report taht says they MAY have got the info on Padilla years before because they MAY have used Torture Techniques before they had permission from the POTUS to use torture.

BUTTTTT

The document with the factual citing of a year between Arrest and Torture is wrong.

Yeah. Right. Now are those finally some concrete war-crime admissions in Murph's CIA/DOJ account? Seems so.

"...I DO care that the Obama/Reid/Pelosi machine is being openly dishonest! a crime is a crime is a crime!#43 | Posted by Eddie..."

Hey Moron. What crimes? Links please?

Or are you just another hack tea-bagger who thinks the the president is a secret Muslim Kenyan Marxist activist who partied when he was 3 with William Ayers?

Hey look Eddie....Shiny Keys.

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