Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Thursday, February 18, 2010

On the one-year anniversary of the plan's passage in Congress, President Barack Obama vigorously defended his $787 billion stimulus on Wednesday, insisting it rescued Americans from the worst of the economic calamity. "Our work is far from over but we have rescued this economy from the worst of this crisis," he said.

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Anyone else want to defend the "Stimulus"?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

new york times poll

SIX per cent say stimulus worked.

thats SIX per cent...as krauthammer said last night

since 7% believe that elvis is still alive, 6 sounds about right..

and remember...its the NEW YORK TIMES poll...

"Just look at the outside evaluations of the stimulus.

Perhaps the best-known economic research firms are IHS Global Insight, Macroeconomic Advisers and Moody's Economy.com. They all estimate that the bill has added 1.6 million to 1.8 million jobs so far and that its ultimate impact will be roughly 2.5 million jobs. The Congressional Budget Office, an independent agency, considers these estimates to be conservative."

www.drudge.com

Oh noooo! Did I post facts on a whacko winger thread?

My sincerest apologies.

"Just look at the outside evaluations of the stimulus.

Perhaps the best-known economic research firms are IHS Global Insight, Macroeconomic Advisers and Moody's Economy.com. They all estimate that the bill has added 1.6 million to 1.8 million jobs so far and that its ultimate impact will be roughly 2.5 million jobs. The Congressional Budget Office, an independent agency, considers these estimates to be conservative."

www.drudge.com

#3 | Posted by Corky at 2010-02-18 12:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hey Corker, how goes it?

Just what are these jobs? Where are they located? Private or Public? How do they verify that they were created on part of the stimulus rather than simply being needed at the time and falsely attributed to the stimulus?

Why the estimate? Not sure that they really are from the stimulus? Long term jobs? What's the pay?

exp, you know you won't get an answer from cor on that. There is no answer because it is a PIDOMA.

And shit don't stink.

Anyone else want to defend the "Stimulus"?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

#1 | Posted by Eddie

doesn't need defending.

Maybe we should have done as Bush did? Attack random countries that begin with the letter I? Wonder where we would be now? Iran?

Naah this was a much better plan.

#8 | Posted by donnerboy

When there is no argument Bush bashing is the next best thing. Please keep it up until November.

surely he doesn't expect U.S. to believe this crock of hooey?:

www.drudge.com

#5 Maybe you should either ask...."Perhaps the best-known economic research firms are IHS Global Insight, Macroeconomic Advisers and Moody's Economy.com. They all estimate that the bill has added 1.6 million to 1.8 million jobs so far and that its ultimate impact will be roughly 2.5 million jobs. The Congressional Budget Office, an independent agency, considers these estimates to be conservative."

Or do a little research on your own.

"Obama-themed merchandise saturated the Washington area around the time of the president's inauguration last year, but by the fall, the enthusiasm for Obama caps, t-shirts, commemorative plates and so forth, seemed to fizzle. U.S. News and World Report noted earlier this month that even the Obama Store, located in tourist-filled Union Station, has closed, in what "may be the most tangible sign yet that the [Obama] honeymoon is over.""

www.cbsnews.com

"surely he doesn't expect U.S. to believe this crock of hooey?:"

No one expects you to believe anything except right wing propaganda NANC but most Americans aren't like you thankfully. There has been a concerted effort to sell the idea that the stimulus failed for plainly political reasons, it now will be the adminstration's job, together with the rest of the Democrats to try and get people to look at unbiased, independent evaluations and make up their own minds who to believe.

The U.S. government had no choice but to pump money into the economy after the economic collapse of fall 2008. You'd think we would've learned this lesson already in the Great Depression, but our country is full of people who want to try Herbert Hoover's ideas again. It's insane. Bush and Obama did the right thing.

#13 - you are a party shill.

#14 - if that is true, why didn't they just send each of us like $30,000 or so and allow U.S. to spend the money where we saw fit?

I wish liberals had a better comprehension of Herbert Hoover.

He tried everything, including pumping money into the economy. Leftie ignorance is near total when it comes to the great depression, as it is on events today..

I know it did...good work man. everything is fine...doucebag

787 billion to make 2.5 million jobs is just under $400,000 per job.

Shocking. The rightwingers all deny it. And who says partisanship affects the sheeplike nature of rightwing attitudes?

if that is true, why didn't they just send each of us like $30,000 or so and allow U.S. to spend the money where we saw fit?

Most Americans, given that money, would have put it into savings or paid down debt. Spending on infrastructure and other works projects puts money directly into the economy.

What work projects have been undertaken that have put significant money directly into the economy?

Also, Corcker, you are the one who put up the article and is defending the article, you are the one proving the positive. Show me where they went, otherwise they are estimates based not on fact, and your backing of them is based solely on which party the information came from.

Where did the money go and what kinds of jobs did it create. When will we be able to see the real numbers and how do we know that the jobs created were directly from the stimulus.

www.usatoday.com

The best economic research firms in the country and the CBO agree on these numbers.

As you appear to want to make yourself a fringe parody of a looney-toon character on this... have at it.

Or, you could do some research on your own and find out that about a third of the money has actually been spent, another roughly third is obligated to projects, and the remaining is to be spent on projects later this year.

But a cursory reading of any intelligent commentary on the subject could have informed you of those facts.

Hell boy, we have posters here, several of them that I have read, that credit the stimulus with keeping them from being fired as teachers or firefighters.

Ideologues like yourself, we understand, could really care less about how effective the stimulus is, but only look to spin reality to conform to your asinine politics.

In future, if you can't tear yourself away from Fox "news" for information, don't blame me when life is a huge mystery to you.

I love to see the Republicans squeel as things keep getting better. They were hoping that they could obstruct their way into a worse recession for America, and then blame Obama and the Democrats. Funny sh*t...

As we work our way out of this hole the Republicans spent and deregulated us into the Democrats and Obama are going to keep looking better and better. Meanwhile, the Republicans will just continue to look like, well, Republicans. I guess that should be punishment enough; that and being dismissed by Americans as politically impotent...

Good luck with that...

Hell boy, we have posters here, several of them that I have read, that credit the stimulus with keeping them from being fired as teachers or firefighters.

I didn't think that anecdotes were credible. Also, how do they know that the stimulus saved their job?

It is very hard to track the stimulus unfortunately, all I ask if for as much "transparency" as possible.

Estimates are not going to cut it. I hope they come up with a list of jobs, each actual job, location and term, so that we can see what really happened.

We know what happened with the "accurate" unemployment numbers. They had to add extra to the number after a while. We know what happened with the people receiving the money, they had to remove fake zip codes. It is important to see it all.

I think that is all we want. One day the stimulus is working, the next day it is going to be working when we start spending some more of the money.

This is a problem. If you don't like the problem, don't offer up incomplete information in the positive toward the program.

Sounds like "Mission Accomplished" to me. It is over when it is over.

I see Hope and Change is alive and well in Uranus.

Capitalism is dying thanks to the Empty Suit infront of the teleprompters.

#25 | Posted by Capt_Of_Uranus

I guess thats they way they saw it in Mass when the elected Brown.He oppesed the Obama/Dem health care bill and the stimulus was a waste of tax payer money.

Dont look now but your anus is in fire. But keep telling your self and others that every thing is fine in nappy ho changeville after all almost 6% are right with you capt.

I love when the unprovable is announced as fact...especially when we're hardly out of the woods.

If my source is correct, this is a breakdown of unemployment verses income. Note how unemployment goes up at the lower income levels. The lowest income level has ten times the unemployment as the highest level.

$150,000 or more, 3.2 percent
$100,000 to 149,999, 8 percent
$75,000 to $99,999, 5 percent
$60,000 to $75,000, 6.4 percent
$50,000 to $59,000, 7.8 percent
$40,000 to $49,000, 9 percent
$30,000 to $39,999, 12.2 percent
$20,000 to $29,999, 19.7 percent
$12,500 to $20,000, 19.1 percent
$12,499 or less, 30.8 percent

Most Americans, given that money, would have put it into savings or paid down debt. Spending on infrastructure and other works projects puts money directly into the economy.
#21 | Posted by rcade

That's exactly what Japan did. Now their economy is in worse shape then ever and they are deeper in debt.

Government spending CANNOT replace the market economy. Simple common sense should tell you that goverment has to create jobs by taking money from the market economy. This country has a serious debt problem. More debt only makes things worse. Forget about Hoover. The numbers tell the truth.

So what are you going to say if we get into a worse recession Corker? That the stimulus brought us into a worse recession, or that the original recession was just that bad?

Complete BS by team obama.

News of the day FED RAISES DISCOUNT RATE TO .75%

THAT is a Paul Volcher like move, bam right upside your head in between fed meetings!

And GOLD will move down tomorrow!

It was the TARP which saved us from depression. Stimlus was suppose to shovel us green Jobs. How's that working out?

from being fired as teachers or firefighters.

and what happens when the stimulus money to the states dries up?

How many people do you know whose jobs were 'saved'?????

I'm sure the unemployed will be cheering!

Anyone can pick a number out of the air... I do not know or have heard of any new system put in place that could possibly capture any support information for this... it would take a pretty sophisticated system at that.. hmmmmm, unemployment claims keep going up???? as others have suggested..are these long-term jobs or 'project' jobs which will not last.. and, as to the BS thrown around about jobs 'saved', there is really no system in place or integrity to measure a number here either...!!!!
What else do we expect Oboner to spout??? same as the most of his rhetoric...

The best economic research firms in the country and the CBO agree on these numbers.
#24 | POSTED BY CORKY

Duh! They're the same morons who made this mess and never saw it coming. I Wouldn't give two shits for their advice. Corky is the fool who never learns.

Most Americans, given that money, would have put it into savings or paid down debt. Spending on infrastructure and other works projects puts money directly into the economy.

Putting money into savings = more capital for banks to lend.

Paying down debt = more financial breathing room for Americans which allows them to spend more money.

BTW, how much of the stimulus was put into "infrastructure" projects?

Maybe we should have done as Bush did? Attack random countries that begin with the letter I? Wonder where we would be now? Iran?

Naah this was a much better plan.

#8 | Posted by donnerboy

Yes, Bush was a criminal!

Does that now make Obama a criminal since he wanted to fuck things up better than the last administration?


It was the TARP which saved us from depression. Stimlus was suppose to shovel us green Jobs. How's that working out?

#37 | Posted by DavetheWave

Green Jobs...

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


I'm sure the unemployed will be cheering!

#40 | Posted by nanc

Many people were laid of because of the bullshit in Washington. This administration is a failure. I wanted Obama's agenda to fail, I didn't want him to bring US down with him! What a stupid fuck!

EDDIE .. Approx 8.4 million jobs lost during Bush's term. Notice how unemployment was 800,000 the month Bush left office and hasn't been anywhere near that in any month for over a year?

Unemployment was 4% when Bush took office. 10% when he left. 20 million jobs were created by his predecessor, 8.4 million lost during Bush's term. $5 Trillion national debt when Bush took office (and a surplus). $12.8 Trillion when Bush left office and a $1.3 trillion deficit Bush's last budget (2009).

#27 | Posted by rightisright at 2010-02-18 04:58 PM
***"I see Hope and Change is alive and well in Uranus"

Maybe, but I do know that the American economy is very big, and that this economy isn't going to recover instantly. I also know that chief economic indicators are rebounding. Is it over? Probably not. However, it is headed in the right direction. And, that recovery, though dismissed by the Republicans, is all due to our current administration. Minus the Republicans, of course; they are just sitting on the sidelines obstructing anything and everything "Obama" at the expense of the American people and country...

So, just as it is hard to turn a failing economy around, it is just as hard to reverse a growing economy, (though, if anyone could do it, it would be the Republicans, example: Bush 2000 - 2006). Given the strength of the stock market, the growing home buyers market, the statistics on new home construction and the stabilization of the unemployment numbers; one has to assume that the Republicans are once again screaming "be afraid, be very afraid!!!".

#29 | Posted by WI_Hunter at 2010-02-18 05:10 PM

Wow, "nappy ho changeville"? SOP for the GOP I guess: when you can't beat them, call them names...

Just like obstructionism and fear mongering; when your tool kit is that small I suppose you have to use whatever a limited intellect will afford you, huh???

Government spending CANNOT replace the market economy.

That wasn't the goal of the stimulus. It was to prop up the economy to hasten the recovery. We're in the midst of that recovery now.

And shit don't stink.

#7 | Posted by SpokaneJim

And pigs fly...

Rcade--they are taking money out of the market economy for crapola.

#47 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY
#48 | POSTED BY CAPT_OF_URANUS

You two have no idea what your talking about. This is bigger than any one political party. Both parties are culpable as well as the voting public, the buying public and the corporate oligarchs. At every level, this country is in debt beyond all means. There is NO recovery on the horizon. There will be nothing pain until the debt comes down to reasonable levels. The idea that Obama or any other president can spend this country out of its debt problems is brainless and criminally insane. The federal government alone has debts of over $100 Trillion on $2 Trillion income while spending is out of control and revenue is collapsing. In proportion, Greece is in better financial shape.

I'm not suggesting 'sky is falling' types replace titanium for tinfoil, but it might be a good idea LOL

We're in the midst of that recovery now.

#50 | Posted by rcade

NO! We are not!

-The Ridiculous Right

That wasn't the goal of the stimulus. It was to prop up the economy to hasten the recovery. We're in the midst of that recovery now.
#50 | POSTED BY RCADE

They're just throwing money away and lying about the recovery with false statistics. You should know politicians enough by now to know they never admit mistakes.

Worse, the way our monetary system was designed, every dollar in circulation represents a dollar of debt. The feds are literally creating more debt. This is history's largest Pyramid Scheme.

I'm not suggesting 'sky is falling' types replace titanium for tinfoil, but it might be a good idea LOL
#54 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY

You are obviously financially illiterate.

How many people do you know whose jobs were 'saved'?????

#39 | Posted by DavetheWave

several people in my company

I disagree that we are in the midst of a recovery, the economy has hit a plateau and will start falling again when the stimulus money dries up.

wages are being cut, that will result in less spending, resulting in less employment (ie less wages), we are at the beginning of the downward spiral.

you read it here first

I thought that's what TARP was for.

Dec 1st, 2009 by jfrankel

Here are my ten proposals to move the budget back to a sustainable path (like the one it was on until January 2001):

First, auction off most greenhouse gas emission permits, rather than giving them away to firms (which would confer windfall profits). This is what President Obama originally proposed last February, but it is not in the congressional climat change legislation.

Second, raise the gas tax. Among the benefits, besides raising revenue, would be reducing traffic congestion, accidents, pollution, the trade deficit, and dependence on Mideastern oil.

Third, cut agricultural subsidies to rich farmers and agribusiness, saving money and improving economic efficiency. This is another measure that Obama proposed when he first took office, but that was rejected by Congress.

Fourth, continue to cut expensive weapons systems that the military doesn't want, but have in the past been been kept because the suppliers are in the districts of influential congressmen. President Obama and Defense Secretary Gates have, amazingly, managed to do this with the F22.

Fifth, end manned space exploration. We don't need it. Spend half the money on useful science instead, including research on energy and medicine (and unmanned space exploration).

Sixth, let George W. Bush's tax cuts for the rich expire as under current law. Of course the Bush plan to eliminate the estate tax completely in 2010 and have it bounce back to its 2001 level thereafter is absurd. We should instead level out the taxable threshold at some reasonable estate size: a few million dollars, something high enough to de-legitimize the hysterical stories about inheritors supposedly being forced to sell their small farms or small businesses to pay the tax. (Use some of the revenue in these proposals to fix the Alternative Minimum Tax once and for all. And, in the meantime, continue Obama's return to honesty in budget accounting regarding the costs of AMT, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, tax cuts, etc. Bush's habitual trick of purposely understating such costs in future budgets allowed him to pretend that we could afford his profligate fiscal policies, which in turn added far more to the national debt than the current recession measures have added.)

Seventh, encourage hospitals to standardize around national best-practice medicine to pursue the checklist that minmizes patient infections and to avoid unnecessary medical tests and procedures using levers such as making Medicare payments conditional on these best practices. This is another part of the Obama plan. (Don't pursue the logic of radio talk show propaganda, which labels even modest government involvement in health care as "socialism," because that logic would require dismantling veterans' hospitals, which provide good medical care relatively efficiently, even before it would require dismantling Medicare.)

Eighth, limit or eliminate the tax-exemption for employer-paid health insurance (as proposed by Senator McCain), at least the Cadillac plans which are very expensive but don't even pay off in health results (as proposed by Senator Kerry).

Ninth, ideally, eliminate the tax deductibility of mortgage interest too. I realize proposing this would be political suicide. Congress and the public are still virtually unanimous in wanting to tilt the playing field in favor of owner-occupied housing and against rental housing and the rest of the capital stock, notwithstanding that such policies contributed to the housing bubble and crash.

Tenth, to save Social Security, raise the retirement age (just a little), tax higher incomes (just a little), and progressively index benefits for future retirees to price inflation, rather than to wage inflation (just a little).

And it got us into what? Come on mr. president, say it, say it!!!!! Even if you bite your tongue.

#57 | Posted by Ray

Whatever you say Raystradamus

#62 | POSTED BY AMERICANUNITY AT 2010-02-18 09:24 PM | REPLY | FLAG: As simple minded as Corky

RAY

I merely suggested you replace your tinfoil hat with titanium for your own safety :-)

There has been a concerted effort to sell the idea that the stimulus failed for plainly political reasons, it now will be the adminstration's job, together with the rest of the Democrats to try and get people to look at unbiased, independent evaluations and make up their own minds who to believe.

#13 | Posted by danni at 2010-02-18 04:08 PM

Unbiased and independent? You mean like all those unbiased and independent scientists for global warming? Hows that one working out for you Democrats?

re: You mean like all those unbiased and independent scientists for global warming?

Yeah, like that. The overwhelming majority of scientists in the field will say, and do say, that the current long-term warming trend is inexplicable by natural drivers (the sun, e.g.), and is most likely due to human activity.

Those would be the scientists that are still getting paid to say that. The more this man made schamm unravels the more of these so called scientists will be changing their story.

Sickoflibs-
The real money is, and always has been, in getting paid by corporate interests who have billions on the line. Until recently it was easy to find "scientists" to testify in court, under oath, that cigarette smoking was not linked to cancer, emphysema, etc.

To pretend that there is some goldmine in independent research that tells the most powerful global corporate actors what they DON'T want to hear would be laughable if it didn't imply that you were fucking retarded, which is not funny.

Hey Ray, have you heard of Kondratieff Cycles and the longwave group?

longwavegroup.com

longwavegroup.com

THATS NOT ALL!
The Sitmulus also saved us from having a dollar that was worth something,
Saved us from eventual retirement (No I'll have to work till I am 90)
and saved us from having clout around the USE.

It was very powerful in saving us from lots of good things.

For every dollar spent on military, someone will burn in hell.

Hey Ritchi, I thought you said there was no hell, and also said there was no burning as there was no fire? Going back no your word?

The Washington Post babbled again today about Obama inheriting a huge deficit from Bush, blah blah blah. Amazingly enough, a lot of people swallow this nonsense.

So once more, I'll try a short civics lesson to the idiots like Danni, DOC_SOREASS and spudhead

Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress, and the party that controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democratic Party. They controlled the budget process for FY 2008 and FY 2009, as well as FY 2010 and FY 2011. In that first year, they had to contend with George Bush, which caused them to compromise on spending, when Bush somewhat belatedly got tough on spending increases. For FY 2009, though, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid bypassed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the FY 2009 budgets.

And where was Barack Obama during this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete FY 2009.
If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the FY 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats in Congress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the budgets. If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself.

Hey Ray, have you heard of Kondratieff Cycles and the longwave group?
#69 | Posted by DavetheWave

Yes. Some followers call this depression a Kondratieff Winter. There's another interesting book you can find in Amazon "The Fourth Turning." I would give you the authors, but I'm not at home. According to those authors, we are in the declining phase of a long cycle. Another one is the Austrian Business cycle which argues that the cause of business cycles is credit expansion and contraction. Lastly, look up the works of Martin Armstrong.

All four are in general agreement about where we are and where we're going. I find them useful for understanding mass psychology, but not for short term timing.

2.5 mil? That's it?! That's $787,000,000,000 and all we get is 2.5 mil jobs?

Let me translate. We spent $314,800 to create 1 job? 1 as in the positive integer closest to zero. We spend $314,800 and create 1 job. Wow.

Give me $300k and I'll create a business and work for myself. I might even hire a secretary, that's double for your money!

Lousy bunch of pork barrel crap. If that money would have been invested in the economy instead of given away for everyone's pet projects we'd have a lot more than 2.5 million jobs created. Lame.

hey prick in chief

I thought you said that we had to pass TARP or get into another great depression??

another statement changed by statue of limitations???

#75 | Posted by gavaster

2.5 mil? That's it?! That's $787,000,000,000 and all we get is 2.5 mil jobs?

Let me translate. We spent $314,800 to create 1 job? 1 as in the positive integer closest to zero. We spend $314,800 and create 1 job. Wow.

Give me $300k and I'll create a business and work for myself. I might even hire a secretary, that's double for your money!

Lousy bunch of pork barrel crap. If that money would have been invested in the economy instead of given away for everyone's pet projects we'd have a lot more than 2.5 million jobs created. Lame.
------------
GAAVASTER, to say Washington spends money like a teenager would be an insult to teenagers.

Others agree with Obama:

"CPUSA/AFL-CIO Call Stimulus A Success"
sweetness-light.com

"Recovery Act success stimulates the push for job creation"
peoplesworld.org

Just to remove any confusion for you lefties:

"The People's World / Mundo Popular is a national, grassroots newspaper and the direct descendant of the Daily Worker."

"The Daily Worker was a newspaper published in New York City by the Communist Party USA"
en.wikipedia.org

The Daily Worker was a newspaper published in New York City by the Communist Party USA"
en.wikipedia.org

#78 | Posted by KBM

Nobody gives a shit you cut-and-paste moron.

I'm no economist by any means, but here are my feelings. It may have slowed down job losses but I believe it also is slowing down a recovery. You look at all this debt and no one in their right mind would say it's not a huge problem we'll face in the near future. I don't even think it's far fetched that it could lead us into a war with China. Which would be the worst war this world has seen. The only money I wouldn't have minded being spent (no bail out no stimulus) would be to make sure cities have enough money to pay police, fire, and teachers due to the loss rev from decreased property taxes.

There is a difference between pumping money into the economy, such and rebuilding infrastructure and bailing out crooked friends unconditionally.

The bailout amounts exceeded our national debt at that time, $13 trillion for fraudsters and $11 trillion in debt. The bonuses these people received for failing to perform on any level ecoomically, ethically or productively is about equal to the budget shortfalls being experienced by 38 States. Who comes up with this shit let alone gets away with it?

Rcade is correct in claiming that action was required by Government. But the action that was delivered is worse than doing nothing. This mess is anything but over. The problem is that the resources needed to actually correct our problems have been squandered and invested in Asia. The financial sector hasn't used that money for anything except speculative trading, foriegn investment and bonuses. 76% of Goldman-Sach's profits are derived from trading schemes which prey on clients and the general population through market manipulation.

If that's true, which it is not, then Bush should get all the credit for doing the first one and preventing catastrophic collapse before our Fuhrer had the chance to steal the next pile of money we don't have.....

#53 | Posted by Ray at 2010-02-18 08:15 PM

So, how did we get out of the Great Depression, Ray?

Who could question giving the Zulu Social Aid and Pleasure Club an $800,000 stimulus? "Zulu received the money through a "competitive procurement process" based on the availability of "urban development action grant" funds." www.nola.com

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