Drudge Retort: Red Meat for Yellow Dogs
Thursday, February 18, 2010

By spraying a synthetic compound similar to THC on the incense-like herb K2, some industrious marijuana smokers have created imitation pot. The end product is legal in the U.S., which lawmakers in Missouri and Kansas would like to change. "This isn't Jerry Garcia's marijuana," said Missouri state Rep. Jeff Roorda (Dem.). "They've used chemicals to avoid creating something that's already illegal."

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"People who use it are idiots..."

They undoubtedly are. Unfortunately it's very hard to teach a drug abuser he's been an idiot by arresting him. Time, love, maturity and faith cure a few. Most never sober up regardless.

What's so bad about "the real thing" anyway?

Big deal. The substance in question is jwh-018, I believe, and is a synthetic cannabinoid. Probably not any more harmful than cannabis, the safest drug in the world.

Undetectable in a drug test? So many NCAA athletes will be all over this.

"The safest drug in the world...."

Now, that's a stretch. You can't mean that literally. There's a cost associated with cannabis. I've seen people pay it.

There's a cost associated with cannabis.

Yes, about 50 dollars for a few grams of the really good stuff.

Zed, you think you know much yet demonstrate the exact opposite. If you ever pause to get off your high horse, you will find that you've been riding an ass this whole time.

"Now, that's a stretch. You can't mean that literally."

Safer than aspirin.

www.cannabisnews.org

www.cannabisnews.org

And dull will also show you a quote from iowapigfarmers.com showing you bacon is healthy. LOL

so breathing burning vegetative material into your lungs ISNT bad for you? guess you got ahold of the tobacco lobby's scientists

And dull will also show you a quote from iowapigfarmers.com showing you bacon is healthy. LOL

Moderation... the spice of life. You shouldn't eat greasy sausages every day. Likewise, multiple bongloads to the cranium every day aren't the best thing for you. Smoking is bad, after all.

breathing burning vegetative material into your lungs ISNT bad for you

It's extremely bad for you. It's not the only way to consume cannabis, though.

#8 | Posted by goatman

Yawn. Fine. Here's another source...

www.independent.ie

Moderation... the spice of life.

This is true and I'm not against pot. My point was that a glowing report on pot from cannibasnews.org might be a little biased, DYK?

I'll stick to the real stuff.

" My point was that a glowing report on pot from cannibasnews.org might be a little biased, DYK?"

That's pretty dumb to anyone that knows how the internet works. But no one ever accused Goatman of being smart. Most stories are picked up from the wire services. Example, cannabisnews.com. Check out the sources for the stories.

www.cannabisnews.com

o breathing burning vegetative material into your lungs ISNT bad for you? guess you got ahold of the tobacco lobby's scientists

#9 | Posted by truthhurts

What are you talking about? What's that have to do with this thread?

Most stories are picked up from the wire services.

Smart people question sources and don't swallow the first thing that is thrown at them. But no one ever accused you of being smart either, dull. If cannabisnews.org gleaned it out of the bowels of the internet, it's gotta be true, right? LOL

Sucker. Question everything.

the claim that marijuana is the safest drug in the world, which is typically smoked, just saying.

"the claim that marijuana is the safest drug in the world, which is typically smoked, just saying."

That's just hyperbole on my part. It would be impossible to prove that of any drug.

Question everything.

#17 | Posted by goatman

No shit Captain Obvious.

"You've been riding an ass this whole time...."

If there's any inanimate thing worthy of human hatred, it's drugs of abuse.

"Get off your high horse...."

Stop wallowing in the mud. You advocacy of substance abuse is the single most irrresponsible and dangerous thing I've seen posted on these pages.

"Safer than aspirin...."

Oh, I see---You mean it's easier to OD on apsirin than marijuana. I agree with that. But then again, I've never met anyone living in a double wide and watching Looney Tunes on the tube for twenty years because of aspirin.

It's the second most difficult thing in the world to critique a drug you like. THE most difficult thing is perhaps to critique a drug you like and are also using. Most people need to quit before they can see how bad it, and they, have been.

Prior to that time it's like talking to a wall. It is almost impossible to tell an active druggie anything about his drugginess.

He's in love, and he'd often prefer to get rid of his children than whatever chemical he eats or smokes. Having seen more than one person make that precise choice, this is more than abstract speculation.

"Moderation, the spice of life..."

They ALL consume the drugs they use in moderation. Just ask them. Because they are all in control, ask them again. Repetitive, predictable, and sad.

How about mixing it in some brownies.

"You advocacy of substance abuse is the single most irrresponsible and dangerous thing I've seen posted on these pages."

Who is advocating that? Personally, I advocate responsible use, not abuse, of substances.

My point was that a glowing report on pot from cannibasnews.org might be a little biased

And that's probably correct.

#22 | POSTED BY ZED
"I've never met anyone living in a double wide and watching Looney Tunes on the tube for twenty years because of aspirin."

LOL. Great image.

But I'd argue that the pot didn't CAUSE them to vegetate for 20 years.
Rather, the vegging and pot abuse stem from a common cause.

"Who is advocating that....?"

Who is speaking out against it? It's often portrayed as funny or something to be bragged about. At least one of the culprits is on this thread.

They ALL consume the drugs they use in moderation.

So what's your problem?

Rather, the vegging and pot abuse stem from a common cause.

Zed is utterly incapable of teasing apart causal relationships. It shows quite often.

"Great image..."

It's more than an image. Then there are the pot-heads with the newspaper collection. They never throw out the paper, but stack them in tower after tower right up to the ceiling. Decades of news, stored the old-fashioned way.

Maybe they were crazy anyway. Possible, of course. But then again that just means they really, really, really needed to stop smoking dope.

"Teasing apart causal relationships..."

I'm absolutely sure than no drug ZOMBIE gas ever ingested is capable of being the cause of anything. Wonder drugs, probably. Or maybe ZOMBIE'S just special.

""I've never met anyone living in a double wide and watching Looney Tunes on the tube for twenty years because of aspirin."
...
#22 | Posted by Zed at 2010-02-17 10:56 PM | Reply | Flag

Your obsession with altered states of consciousness induced by drugs, rather than religion, is noted. No cult likes competition.

Hurt hearing marijuana dissed? I understand. For some people it's like watching their sister get knocked around. I imagine they get over it by smoking another number.

Because they are all in control, ask them again.

I interpret this to mean you believe anyone who uses a recreational drug is not "in control". Of course, you have no evidence of this... not that a lack of evidence has stopped you from making outrageous statements in the past.

It's just one more example of a self-appointed sage making a fool out of himself by attempting to share his "wisdom". The world would benefit far more were you to share a fart instead.

"Of course you have no evidence of this..."

Hmmm. Much like you have no evidence that you, as an example, are in control when you use these things. I'd have thought we'd have to accept your word for it. Unless you can suggest a demonstration. Of your control, that is.

I'll tell you what: stop using whatever it is you like to use for ten solid years. That would be fairly convincing as evidence of control.

Game?

"I know all and see all. Those that oppose my obviously superior views are fools to be trod underfoot"

Less-Than-Zero

altered states of consciousness induced by drugs, rather than religion

Two sides of the same coin. Chemicals in your brain can do some very interesting things to your perception. The difference between stimulating a state by introducing foreign chemicals and doing the same altering the production of endogenous compounds is a matter of which road you take to Rome.

No cult likes competition.

Ah, the apologist's raison d'etre...

"The world would benefit more if you were to share a fart...."

Kids. Youth is wasted on the young.

you have no evidence that you, as an example, are in control when you use these things

Other than a lack of negative health consequences, compulsion to use, and compromised social/intellectual function... yeah, no evidence. Shit, you're dense.

Youth is wasted on the young.

And oxygen is wasted by the old.

Tell you what, ZOMBIE---Just give it up for one year, again as a measure of control. Of course, to have pure test you can't substitute other chemicals during that time.

Alternatively, stop wandering into large crowds while under the influence of hallucinogenics. That's not control---That's you being stupid and happening to enjoy it.

"Other than negative health consequences, etc. etc., etc..."

Two problems with this---The first being, of course, that who the hell knows who you are or what your life is like.

The second being, and I think you know this, that almost EVERY person with a relationship to a chemical says pretty much the same thing---Always and forevermore.

The burden on you, as a "recreational" drug user, is prove you just aren't another brick wall like so many others.

Just give it up for one year, again as a measure of control.

I've taken longer breaks than that. Currently in the middle of one. I don't make a habit out of eating sundaes, but I don't deliberately avoid them either. Life goes on, either way. Moderation, as I said before, is key. That principle applies in everything.

On a related note, why don't you give up Christianity for a year? You know, just to prove that you are in control of your devotion and not merely self-medicating through slavish adherence to dogma...

stop wandering into large crowds while under the influence of hallucinogenics

Huh?

"Tell you what, ZOMBIE---Just give it up for one year, again as a measure of control"

Why don't you give up religion for a year, Zed? Just to measure your control.

"Huh...?"

If you're going to deny it now, having described it previously, then I think your sabbatical from drug-use should have started a wee bit sooner.

"stop wandering into large crowds while under the influence of hallucinogenics"

That might be a downer for deadheads.

"On a related note, why don't you give up Christianity for a year..."

It's related only in this sense, it's useful as a rationalization for some people to equate drug-use with anything or anyone that sets up a position opposing drug-use.

If it's all really the same, that waters down the moral dimension quite well. That old Love-Is-Hate thing.

If I'd come at you from a position of apple pie and motherhood, I'd get the same sort of crap. I'd be asked to give up raising kids as a "measure of control".

Perverse stuff.


When one looks at our drug laws indeed, at our vice laws altogether the only organizing principle that appears to make sense of them is that anything which might radically eclipse prayer or procreative sexuality as a source of pleasure has been outlawed. In particular, any drug (LSD, mescaline, psilocybin, DMT, MDMA, marijuana, etc.) to which spiritual or religious significance has been ascribed by its users has been prohibited. Concerns about the health of our citizens, or about their productivity, are red herrings in this debate, as the legality of alcohol and cigarettes attests.

The fact that people are being prosecuted and imprisoned for using marijuana, while alcohol remains a staple commodity, is surely the reductio ad absurdum of any notion that our drug laws are designed to keep people from harming themselves or others. Alcohol is by any measure the more dangerous substance.


www.synchronium.net

A lot of extremism in this thread - looks like Zed thinks marijuana is a horrible thing, and others say it's "the safest drug on earth." The truth is somewhere in the middle, and definitely depends on the user.

Then again, the overall effect of many drugs depends on the user, and we don't make those illegal. Anti-depressants are a prime example.

EVERY person with a relationship to a chemical says pretty much the same thing

Much like every person who has a relationship with an invisible being they invented out of thin air. What is the difference, again?

prove you just aren't another brick wall like so many others.

My actions speak louder than anything I can write here, and nothing I write nere will satisfy whatever arbitrary standards of "proof" you concoct depending on the situation at hand. I prove myself to people who are actually significant in my life, and I do so in ways that actually carry weight.

having described it previously

Get back to me when you find whatever the hell you're talking about.

"Get back to me when you find whatever the hell you are talking about...."

I already have. Twice on this thread.

"My actions speak louder than anything I write here..."

But one of your actions is to advocate substance abuse. That you attempt to exempt writing your opinions about drugs as a personal action pretty much illustrates my major point:

Your ability to be objective with yourself on this topic is going, going....

Of the two of us, it's your position on this subject that has the potential to harm others. I really hope you are able to moderate (whatever that means from your point of view) your drug use. Some of the others you encourage won't be able to do that.

That you don't see that also pretty much illustrates my major point:

Your ability to be objective with yourself on this topic is going, going....

"What is the differencew again...."

The difference between God and dope? You remind me of that PETA woman who famously offered "a boy is a dog is a rat".

That's right, ZOMBIE---There is nothing really different from what you already do or already think. You don't have to change or consider changing. Have a toke.

"People who use it are idiots," said Huffman...

Huffman?

S'rsly?

^_^

That's farkin' high-larious!

On Topic?

Erzatz marijuana is as bad as the Real Thing?

It's as bad as Coca Cola?

News to Spud!

Wot's that?

It's as bad as actual marijuana?

Uh-huh, so another way of putting that would be that it's also as good as actual marijuana.

Spud can't speak to whether it is as good or not as Spud aint smoked any yet.

Still, never too early to start clinical trials on the alternative.

You know ...fer comparison purposes.

* DB *

Be Well.

I've never smoked pot, and I couldn't now if I wanted too because of guard base random drug tests. I drink of course, which certainly isn't healthy for you either.

The argument that pot makes people lazy and ineffective doesn't hold water to me, because personally, I have friends that are potheads and super lazy, and friends that are highly effective potheads. A lazy person before smoking pot habitually will be lazy while smoking habitually, and someone who isn't lazy before, will probably still be active after.

It's still not for me though, after I get out of the guard, I won't want to drink too much and smoke to much.

"And friends who are highly effective potheads..."

Ever have a friend who was a highly effective meth freak? Do you doubt there aren't many, many such people? Perhaps they use meth in part to help them be "effective". Would you like to live next door to one?

Meth isn't pot.

zed ... lazy people will be lazy with or without weed.

one of the laziest people i know... never has a job... doesn't do drugs... doesn't even drink.

just plays video games.

on the other hand i have plenty of pot head friends that are highly efficient members of society.

and yes. meth isn't pot.

also

hate to break it to you but all the a.d.h.d. kids on ridilin and aderol are all meth-heads.

and, probably living next door to you.

"A 10-year-old child could walk into a head shop and buy it,"

Not really actually. Headshops are "adult only" places like porn shops and kids are not allowed in. There is a strict "no one under 18" policy in every headshop I have ever been in.

Irony: I never heard of this before this story. I bet most other people are the same way. Do you think this story will decrease or increase sales as a result?

"Ever have a friend who was a highly effective meth freak?"

Now you're babbling like some nutty drug warrior.

Now you're babbling like some nutty drug warrior.

Funny, I was thinking he was babbling like a crackhead in mid-jones.

Wanna know what pot does...

popup.lala.com

A 10-year-old child could walk into a head shop and buy it

Yeah, well children get unrestricted access to caffeine. Many schools have turned to soda machines to make ends meet, selling children out to a highly addictive drug, one whose affect is little understood on childhood development.

Freak out about that much? Maybe you should.

if you took away caffeine from kids you'd see A.D.D and similar disorders reduce dramatically...me thinks

ADD can be traced in a good percent of kids to enlarged tonsils or sleep apnea.

if the weed was good enough for jesus than it cant be that bad...
www.cannabisculture.com

happy anointing fellow followers

Zed, I suspect that your are trolling and just arguing for the sake of arguing.

More people have died and/or committed atrocities in the name of and imaginary figurehead in the sky whispering commands to them (I believe THAT is called schizophrenia). As far as I know there are NO reported deaths as a result of cannabis.

If you want to sway people to your way of thinking you should really put a little thought into your arguments, otherwise you are just criticizing things you know nothing about.

if you took away caffeine from kids you'd see A.D.D and similar disorders reduce dramatically...me thinks

You'd probably want to cut out the sugar too.

Wait, the sugar-laden cereals millions of kids eat for breakfast every day makes them rambunctious? Stop the presses!

"The difference between God and dope?"

Dope exists and can be part of a good time.

Good thing we have sanctimonious left-wing assholes to tell everybody what to eat/drive and how to otherwise live their lives.

Jesus Christ you prudish fucking puke.

Get the fuck over yourself.

Wait, the sugar-laden cereals millions of kids eat for breakfast every day makes them rambunctious? Stop the presses!

#72 | Posted by snoofy

Yeah, well children get unrestricted access to caffeine....selling children out to a highly addictive drug, one whose affect is little understood on childhood development.

#67 | Posted by snoofy

Actually I don't ride due to injury and the fact that my bike was stolen, but I do walk most everywhere. I "only" drive about 6k miles a year.

Posted by snoofy at 2010-02-16 08:06 PM

This thread would be more interesting if I was High...as it is they are the same arguments on both sides with neither giving and nothing changing...

...the underlying fact is that people that want to get high will get high. Regardless of legal, moral or health issues.

So....we can either profit as a community on it or we can let the criminals profit either way people are still going to get high...

Zed is just another one of those frightened rabbits that can't descern "use" from "abuse," so he resorts to shaggy dog metaphors to prop up his paper-thin specious argument.

I stopped in the early '80s basically because I got tired of the constant hassle inherent with procuring marijuana, and to be honest...I just got bored with it. I also fell away from drinking and chasing around other more nefarious substances as well. I only recently have returned to my godless, heathen ways because of the semi-legality of cannibis in this state, not to mention the consistency of high-quality wheezy I'm allowed to safely obtain through my Dr's prescription.

Not that it's anyone's business, but I use it for my back as needed...Zed would have me back on percocets because Jeebus and the AMA approve of that nasty-ass zombie concoction. I eagerly await his learned, scholarly equivications.

"Zed would have me back on percocets because Jeebus and the AMA approve of that nasty-ass zombie concoction. I eagerly await his learned, scholarly equivications."

Zed's not a prohibitionist. He's just a scold.

Leave it to some Tea-bagging Talibaptist to take a Pot thread and use it to put down my beloved bacon.

If I can ever work out that formula for synthetic chocolate covered bacon, we'll see who has the last laugh.

happy anointing fellow followers

#70 | Posted by 503jc69

Pointey birds,
Pointey Pointey
Anoint Me,
Anointey Noitey.

Tao. Some of us look for the Way in opium and some in God, some of us in whiskey and some in love. It is all the same Way and it leads nowhither.
W. Somerset Maugham, The Painted Veil, 1925
English dramatist & novelist (1874 - 1965)

Gold is worse poison to a man's soul, doing more murders in this loathsome world, than any mortal drug.
William Shakespeare
Greatest English dramatist & poet (1564 - 1616)

The truth is, marijuana probably isn't going to make you kill people. Most likely isn't going to fund terrorists, but pot makes you feel fine with being bored and it's when you're bored that you should be learning a new skill or some new science or being creative. If you smoke pot you may grow up to find out that you're not good at anything.
Trey Parker and Matt Stone, South Park, My Future Self n' Me, 2002

KINGCUKE

Really? Then how come I was smoking the other day and the just decided to up and set up a virtual LAMP Server to host a php/mysql based website that my friend is setting up who also smokes all the time...

...

"Zed would have me back on percocets because Jeebus and the AMA approve of that nasty-ass zombie concoction. I eagerly await his learned, scholarly equivications."

Or in my case Zed would gladly have me addicted to Xanex and Ambien because you know it is Doctor approved.!

Most doctors have no training in Addiction medicine and will have you addicted to something in no time if you let them. Mine had me addicted to fiorinal with codeine. Took me almost two years to get clean.

I will stick with my marijuana thank you. It is not addictive and I don't smoke it either. But , I do enjoy the side affects! Marijuana is indeed one of the safest drugs but it is a drug and so your mileage may vary.

There is no pharmacological free lunch in cannabis or any drug. Negative reactions can result. A small percentage of people have negative or allergic reactions to marijuana. Heart patients could have problems, even though cannabis generally relieves stress, dilates the arteries, and in general lowers the diastolic pressure. A small percentage of people get especially high heart rates and anxieties with cannabis. These persons should not use it. Some bronchial asthma sufferers benefit from cannabis; however, for others it may serve as an additional irritant.

www.jackherer.com

Don,

You might also want to mention that high levels of THC can be dangerous to epileptics but high levels of CBD can relieve symptoms of epilepsy...if it were legal we could control and regulate the levels of each of these.

#83 agreed... except I don't really know anything about CBD. I don't do drugs just because they are there (anymore). However, my beautiful wife makes very nice brownies for me. One quarter brownie is a perfect dose for me when I needs it. But, we have discussed ways to fine tune this even better by determining exactly how much THC is going into each brownie. You kind of need a food lab. It gets tricky as it depends on what you use to make the butter. We use our shake from our trimmings. It can vary in it's potency depending on the variety of plant and can vary from plant to plant. I can "estimate" how strong it will be but cannot tell exactly until the batch is made. (BTW the butter sells for about $400 a pound.)

So....we can either profit as a community on it or we can let the criminals profit either way people are still going to get high...

I agree with this but only when we're dealing with victimless crimes -- which to my mind should not be crimes at all.

Generally speaking, profiting off crime should not be permitted, by anyone. For the simple economic reason that profit from crime creates demand for more crime.

Our prohibition laws are out of whack. Marijuana is harmless, or certainly less harmful than legal drugs like alcohol, and tobacco. It should be treated similarly.

But then there was Nixon:

RN: "Why in the name of God do these people take this stuff?"

JE: "For the same reason they drink. It's a, they're bored, it's
a, it's a diversion."

RN: "Drinking is a different thing in a sense. Uh, Linkletter's
point I think is well taken, he says, 'A person may drink to have
a good time' -"

JE: "Mm-hmm"

RN: "-- but a person does not drink simply for the purpose of
getting high. You take drugs for the purpose of getting high."


Trick Dick didn't spend too much time at his local bar, that much is clear.
www.csdp.org

Zed must be really angry that his God created marijuana.

....and drinking a substance that eats away at every body part inside of you is A Okay???

RN: "-- but a person does not drink simply for the purpose of
getting high. You take drugs for the purpose of getting high."

---Or because you have cancer that is eating away at your stomach which makes you constantly vomit and no drug out there does anything near what one puff can do??

If you don't like Pot, complain to the manufacturer.

A potheads favorite body part?....ear.

A potheads favorite body part?....ear.

....and drinking a substance that eats away at every body part inside of you is A Okay???

#87 | Posted by puffy06

Alcohol is a deadly drug compared to marijuana. Tobacco even more so. Pretty much shows the hypocrisy of our laws and how much of an ASS Tricky Dick was.

And Alcoholism is no laughing matter. It has destroyed 10's of thousands of lives and families. About 40,000 deaths per year from alcoholism.

Deaths from marijuana? Zero.

at Zed, Goatman, and Truthhurts... all posting in the first 10 posts:

marijuana is not toxic. water is toxic.

as far as your "lungs" argument goes... aside from a multitude of other rebuttals... there is not one known case of lung cancer (or death) from smoking marijuana.

so please, mentioning tobacco, is just ignorant. or alcohol. but i get that you all want those priced out of existence, too.

you need to read this book AND THEN check/research its every listed source -- the hard copy makes it easy (the online version, afaik, not so much.
www.amazon.com

Here's a DEA Judge's decision:
www.druglibrary.org
y suggest for any "drugs" research you use the druglibrary.org or the schaffer library or www.drugpolicy.org

Here's quote from DEA Judge Young, pp56 -, under Findings of Fact:
3. The most obvious concern when dealing with drug safety is
the possibility of lethal effects. Can the drug cause death?

4. Nearly all medicines have toxic, potentially lethal
effects. But marijuana is not such a substance. There is no record in
the extensive medical literature describing a proven, documented
cannabis-induced fatality.

- 56 -
5. This is a remarkable statement. First, the record on
marijuana encompasses 5,000 years of human experience. Second, marijuana
is now used daily by enormous numbers of people throughout the world.
Estimates suggest that from twenty million to fifty million Americans
routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of
direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and
the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no
credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a
single death.

6. By contrast aspirin, a commonly used, over-the-counter
medicine, causes hundreds of deaths each year.

#93 cont,:
7. Drugs used in medicine are routinely given what is called
an LD-50. The LD-50 rating indicates at what dosage fifty percent of
test animals receiving a drug will die as a result of drug induced
toxicity. A number of researchers have attempted to determine
marijuana's LD-50 rating in test animals, without success. Simply
stated, researchers have been unable to give animals enough marijuana to
induce death.

8. At present it is estimated that marijuana's LD-50 is around
1:20,000 or 1:40,000. In layman terms this means that in order to induce
death a marijuana smoker would have to consume 20,000 to 40,000 times as
much marijuana as is contained in one marijuana cigarette. NIDA-supplied
marijuana cigarettes weigh approximately .9 grams. A smoker would
theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within
about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.

9. In practical terms, marijuana cannot induce a lethal
response as a result of drug-related toxicity.

- 57 -
10. Another common medical way to determine drug safety is
called the therapeutic ratio. This ratio defines the difference between
a therapeutically effective dose and a dose which is capable of inducing
adverse effects.

11. A commonly used over-the-counter product like aspirin has a
therapeutic ratio of around 1:20. Two aspirins are the recommended dose
for adult patients. Twenty times this dose, forty aspirins, may cause a
lethal reaction in some patients, and will almost certainly cause gross
injury to the digestive system, including extensive internal bleeding.

12. The therapeutic ratio for prescribed drugs is commonly
around 1:10 or lower. Valium, a commonly used prescriptive drug, may
cause very serious biological damage if patients use ten times the
recommended (therapeutic) dose.

13. There are, of course, prescriptive drugs which have much
lower therapeutic ratios. Many of the drugs used to treat patients with
cancer, glaucoma and multiple sclerosis are highly toxic. The
therapeutic ratio of some of the drugs used in antineoplastic therapies,
for example, are regarded as extremely toxic poisons with therapeutic
ratios that may fall below 1:1.5. These drugs also have very low LD-50
ratios and can result in toxic, even lethal reactions, while being
properly employed.

14. By contrast, marijuana's therapeutic ratio, like its LD-50,
is impossible to quantify because it is so high.

15. In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many
foods we commonly consume. For example, eating ten raw potatoes can
result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible
to eat enough marijuana to induce death.

16. Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest
therapeutically

- 58 -
active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis
marijuana can be safely used within a supervised routine of medical care

Once again, support:
www.leap.cc

"Marijuana, in its natural form, is one of the safest
therapeutically"

Cannabis is very safe. But even if it wasn't, there's no constitutional justification for prohibition anyway.

RE:93 & 94

way too much information. you lost them at "you need to read..."

"A smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response."

Hell, Tommy Chong does that every day.

If it makes you feel good, then obviously it should be prohibited. We certainly don't want people feeling good.

Personal liberty is the enemy of the religious right.

The War on Drugs is immoral and anti-American.

(Just study the 13 year, two Constitutional Amendments [XVIII, XXI], Alcohol Prohibition.)

"Personal Liberty is at last an uncrowned king, with no one to do him reverence. ...We are no longer frightened by that ancient bogey...."

"When we make self-discipline by law a civic duty we commit a moral tragedy in that we dissolve a person's sense of self self-accomplishment and erode his self-esteem. We throw sand into the gears of self- discipline by making it [self-governance] a civic duty."

"The more hopeless our drug problem becomes, the more stubbornly we cling to the myth that drugs pose a threat to every man, woman, and child in the world, and the more certain we are of our duty to combat drug abuse by coerced treatment and criminal penalties at home, and by armed intervention and economic sanctions abroad."
--Szasz

The War Prohibition Act was enacted after America entered World War I, outlawing the manufacture of beer and wine after May 1, 1919 and outlawing all intoxicating beverages after June 30, 1919. America went dry under this act on July 1, 1919. The fighting, WWI, had actually stopped on November 11, 1918, Prohibition, the Eighteenth Amendment, took effect on January 20, 1920. Reverend A. C. Bane declared the nation, "redeemed by prohibition", "America will 'go over the top' in humanity's greatest battle... struggling with the same age-long foe, we will go forth with the spirit of the missionary and the crusader to help drive the demon of drink from all civilization." Reverend Sam Small in 1917, spoke these powerful words to the Washington, D. C. Anti‑saloon League's convention, "...you and I may proudly expect to see this America of ours, victorious and Christianized, become not only the savior but the model and the monitor of the reconstructed civilization of the world in the future." The Reverend Josiah Strong, coeditor of the magazine "The Gospel of the Kingdom," in 1914. "Personal Liberty is at last an uncrowned king, with no one to do him reverence. ...We are no longer frightened by that ancient bogey...." First Lady Nancy Reagan said, "Any user of illicit drugs is an accomplice to murder." Former U. S. government drug czar William Bennett said, "It [drug abuse] is a product of the Great Deceiver.... We need to bring these people in need the God who heals." Indeed, in need of an education. "This role of universal religious-therapeutic saviorship seems to fit America's collective spirit so perfectly that we have preserved the play intact, merely modernizing it. We have replaced the actors: liquor with cocaine, Christianity with Medicine. And we intensified the struggle by equipping the combatants with more powerful weapons: temptations more irresistible than man has ever known." The anti-drug warriors' crusade is one against evil as perceived by the crusader. "It is a fatal weakness of prudential critiques of drug policy that they ignore the 'religious' character of the war on drugs".

is time running out for America being world leader in thought and action?

some reading material:

Dilulio, John, Jr. "Cracking Down." The New Republic. 10 May 1993.

Ehrenfeld, Rachel. "The Movement To Legalize Drugs in the United States: Who's behind It?" Townhall. 9 June 1996. Internet site:
www.townhall.com

Epstein, Aaron. "Are Sentencing Parities Different for White and Black Offenders?" Newsbank/CD-ROM. Knight-Ridder Washington Bureau, Knight-Ridder/Tribune News Service. 8 Feb. 1996.

Herer, Jack. The Emperor Wears No Clothes. Van Nuys, CA: HEMP/Queen of Hearts, 1985.

"Just Say Whoa." Time. 19 Nov.1990.

Morganthau, Tom, and Mark Miller. "The Drug Warrior." Newsweek. 10 Apr. 1989.

"Perspectives: Overheard." Newsweek. 26 June 1989.

"Opium of the People: The Federal Drug Store." National Review. 5 Feb.1990.

Szasz, Thomas. Our Right to Drugs: The Case for a Free Market. New York: Praeger, 1992.

"The War on Drugs is Lost." National Review. 5 Feb. 1990.

Timms, Ed. "Debate on Drugs: As Number of Offenders in Prison Rises, Disparity in Penalties Creates Controversy." The Dallas Morning News. Newsbank/CD-ROM. 17 Dec. 1995.

Waldman, Steven, Mark Miller and Richard Sandza. "Turf Wars in the Federal Bureaucracy." Newsweek. 10 Apr. 1989.

so.... marijuana? HA! what a joke.
but who's laughing?
FOLLOW THE MONEY. END THE BLACK MARKET IN DRUGS. END THE PROHIBITION.

@ 95... amen.

& 96... yeah, but i repeat it for years and years and years.

peace, bros.

"Marijuana is not toxic..."

That's not the argument. The argument is it isn't good for you. It isn't. Yes, it can be used as a medicine. So can mercury.

Hey, you said water was toxic. You could bring yourself back down to earth if you spent some effort. Or maybe just stopped getting stoned.

Yes, I agree alcohol is much worse than marijuana. But that's not the point either.

The point is the SAFE number of grams of marijuana for any human being to consume OVER THEIR ENTIRE LIVES in relation to good mental health is likely going to be less than 5% of what persons like you have already ingested.

Drug users, no matter what drugs they use, are not, cannot be, realists. Realism gets in the way of doing what they want to do.

"Zed would have me back on percocets...."

Nonsense. Use your marijuana to ease your suffering. Neither would I deny a cancer victim heroin as a pain killer.

There's a cost-benefit decision there which can be rational. I reserve my contempt for "recreational drug users". They leave a trail of desctruction behind them and, as you'll note, never ever do they seem guilty about that.

"It's not (marijuana) addictive..."

It's not physically addictive. You're smart enough to know it doesn't end there. You're paying attention to exactly that half of the universe that pleases you. That's why arguing with anyone who truly dopes has the same quite forgone conclusion.

"POTHEADS Create Legal Fake Marijuana"

hahahha

"It's not (marijuana) addictive..."
It's not physically addictive. You're smart enough to know it doesn't end there. You're paying attention to exactly that half of the universe that pleases you. That's why arguing with anyone who truly dopes has the same quite forgone conclusion.

#106 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2010-02-18 08:40 PM | REPLY

STFU, Zedly.

Hey, you said water was toxic. You could bring yourself back down to earth if you spent some effort. Or maybe just stopped getting stoned.

#103 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2010-02-18 08:30 PM

Again.....Shut The Fuck Up.

Lemme guess...you luv "jebus".

Medicinal pot is fine.

This stuff they are smoking sounds harmful.

And pot is not that safe when someone abuses it.

I actually had a conversation with someone and put forth the argument that if they legalized pot--we could say f-u to the cartels.

I couldn't believe I said this....

I couldn't believe I said this....

#110 | Posted by MURPHY

Great, Murphy. Time to get your rec and get down to your friendly neighborhood cannabis shop.

Cali rocks! Red states suck!

"Again shut the fuck up...."

Ah. I'll bet I remind you of that guy who tells you most of your hash is really camel shit. Guess what? That guy is right.

Drugs are dangerous. Pot messes up your personality.

The worst part is people start believing drugs improve their personality.

People who drink think they're more outgoing.

Drug users think they're more insightful and/or wise.

It's all an illusion.

Not real.

Drugs have been around since the beginning of mankind. And people have been screwing up their lives just as long.

What a waste!

I reserve my contempt for "recreational drug users". They leave a trail of desctruction behind them and, as you'll note, never ever do they seem guilty about that.

"Trail of destruction?"

More like a trail of empty Doritos bags.

The point is the SAFE number of grams of marijuana for any human being to consume OVER THEIR ENTIRE LIVES in relation to good mental health is likely going to be less than 5% of what persons like you have already ingested.

Do you have a link to this bullshit "fact" you obviously just made up and pulled straight out your ass?

I'd post more but I'm going to the bar, where I'll be engaging in some recreational drug use and recreational pool games. Pray for me, Zed?

They leave a trail of desctruction behind them and, as you'll note, never ever do they seem guilty about that.

Were you raped by a "recreational drug user"?

Zed is just another one of those frightened rabbits that can't descern "use" from "abuse," so he resorts to shaggy dog metaphors to prop up his paper-thin specious argument.

More or less. He will make distinctions when it serves his purpose, yet he will also act oblivious to them when that is advantageous to him. Either way, he brings much more to the table as in the form of clownish babble than rational commentary.

Religions are dangerous. Religion messes up your personality.

The worst part is people start believing religion improves their personality.

People who proselytize think they're more outgoing.

Zealots think they're more insightful and/or wise.

It's all an illusion.

Not real.

Gods have been around since the beginning of mankind. And people have been screwing up their lives just as long.

What a waste!

FTFY.

Wot Spud did there, Bill.

Did you see?

Spud aint neccessarily down with religion per se and, in fact, sees a lot of good in them. Just pointing out that you can make the argument that religion is more harmful than pot quite easily as religion can be traced to a large number of deaths through armed conflicts over the millennia and pot has no deaths attributed directly to it

Bottom line is government really does not have the right to tell people what they can and can't ingest fer recreational purposes.

So fuck them biatches.

* DB *

Be Well.

/Yes, back.
//Kind of y'all to notice.
///And yes, entering the DRagon as ya do
stage left.

down with = down on

Be Well.

Zed, once again your ignorance shows through.

If you REALLY want to boil it down.....

God created Pot

If Pot = bad............Then God = imperfect (cuz all things that God creates serves his purpose).

If God is imperfect, then he is NOT God.

Your idiocy has just managed to dismantle 2000 years of religion / superstition. You must be proud.

"ZED, you show your ignorance once again..."

I just describe what I see and what I have seen. You can accept my witness or not. If you are even mildly afectionate toward any drug of abuse, you won't.

My point has been, and the vast majority of sober persons who have loved or otherwise dealt with drug-abusers, will agree with me, is that as long as they are using it's almost impossible to tell them any damned thing about drugs.

Drugs are more powerful than people and, despite not having brains, perversely smarter. The most common self-delusion (perhaps in the world) is that the user "controls" anything.

You may or may not get into trouble because you ingest chemicals. But you are always just along for the ride, never in control.

C.S. Lewis elegantly dealt with the subject of God and drugs in "Perelandra". The bottom line being He's not responsible for your bad habits and lack of respect.

"Your idiocy has managed to dismantle 2000 years of religion...."

Not to be obscure, but I'm not sure you're bright enough to understand my idiocy. But tell you what, put down that joint and we'll talk about it.

Drugs are more powerful than people and, despite not having brains, perversely smarter.

Must be why that more than 30 years after declaring war on them, they are winning.

Here's a question that needs answering.

How many productive people have had their lives destroyed by marijuana use vs. how many destroyed by draconian drug laws and mandatory prison sentences?

We can't possible know the actual numbers of the former, but the latter number is quantifiable and huge.

I reserve my contempt for "recreational drug users". They leave a trail of desctruction behind them and, as you'll note, never ever do they seem guilty about that.

What a lot of horseshit. That certainly isn't true of cannabis users. You're starting to sound like the nutcases that think "Reefer Madness" is a documentary.

Zed, Have you ever even TRIED marijuana before? If not, then you have NO frame of reference to base your opinion. If you have, then you already know that it is not the evil herb that you think it is (remember... God created it, NOT man). That which God made is good and serves his purpose, right?

I've done my time with born again Christianity (it destroyed my 20 year marriage), If you think that I cannot understand your narrow mindset, then bring on the debate pal. Believe me, I understand religious zealotry.

Perhaps instead of calling it the "war on drugs" they should call it the "crusade on drugs". You HAVE heard of the crusades right? Another shining example of the Christians saving us from ourselves.

Legalize it!

Don't criticize it!

Legalize it!

And I will advertise it!

Peter Tosh

Spud,

Millions and millions of people have turned their lives over to God, and have had major transformations.

They have changed their lives for the better.

Can you say the same about drugs? What path does drug use typically lead?

Jesus is quoted as saying,

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them."

Millions and millions of people have turned their lives over to God, and have had major transformations.

They have changed their lives for the better.

Not arguing that religion does not do some good for some folks.

In that it does Spud is praise it.

In that it has also been a very important factor in the ending of slavery and in the the enforcement and recognition of civil rights it is also to be praised.

In that religious intolerance has been responsible for a large number of wars over the centuries and reprehensible tactics like torture and the burning of heretics it is to be admonished.

See also: the modern church's stubborn and morally regressive stand against civil rights for gays, reproductive rights for women, age appropriate sexual education for students.

Not even mentioning the back-assward Muslim extremists out there.

Can you say the same about drugs?

Spud can say that there are far more people who benefit from occasional recreational drug use or at the least are less damaged by it than they would be if their poison of choice was alcohol and cigarettes.

What path does drug use typically lead?

Dunno, Obama, Clinton and Bush were all drug users at one point and despite them being atypical in that they belong to a select club they are pretty indicative that the Reefer Madness school of thought on societal drug usage is not particularly valid.

The war on drugs is a complete and utter failure.

Decriminalizing possession of small amounts of narcotics will allow the courts to relieve massive log-jams and maybe put some money back into the system for harm prevention, education and treatment for those who need it.

Be Well.

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